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The 2 face off on some deserted planet, who takes it?

Silver Surfer bfr his own ass. He prefer life to the beating he would receive.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Silver Surfer bfr his own ass. He prefer life to the beating he would receive.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

trion

Trion will kill him, rape him, and I would say eat his fvcking costume, but since SS doesn't have one, Trion will just rip off and eat his skin.

Silver Surfer is a planetary level threat. Trion is well above that.

Stalemate/edge to Surfer. nothing Trion can possibly do to hit/catch Surfer.

Surfer could probably wear Trion down with energy and matter manipulation use, also with synthesis of magic.

Originally posted by janus77
Stalemate/edge to Surfer. nothing Trion can possibly do to hit/catch Surfer.

Surfer could probably wear Trion down with energy and matter manipulation use, also with synthesis of magic.

lol

Originally posted by Never
Silver Surfer is a planetary level threat. IIRC, in "Annihilation," his Threat Level is listed as universal, same as Galactus, Tenebrous and Aegis.

Originally posted by janus77
Stalemate/edge to Surfer. nothing Trion can possibly do to hit/catch Surfer.

Surfer could probably wear Trion down with energy and matter manipulation use, also with synthesis of magic. I'm inclined toward stalemate. From what I understand, I think Trion is too powerful to be stopped by SS. On the other hand, like you, I don't see how TJ could hit/catch the Surfer.

I dunno, I see Trion as somewhere above Skyfather but encumbered by his lack of range and exotic attacks. he's basically a stationary target with juggernaut like "speed".

if Surfer had been free to hit away at Teneberous or Aegis, I'm sure that they would have, eventually, been KO'd.

also, since Surfer can synthesise Odinforce, which has on-panel, affected Cyttorak's charm... there's a way there too, to at the very least hurt Trion. or maybe he can take the fight to the astral plane (Cyttorak himself seems quite useless there, viz the battle with Juggernaut)...

I think Trion's being a might too over-hyped by people here, with comparisons to Galactus and setting up battles against Spectre etcetera.

Indeed trion here is quite overhyped. Comparing him Galactus is just foolish when he has no feats to prove he is on that level.

Originally posted by Never
Silver Surfer is a planetary level threat. Trion is well above that.
he destroyed a planet on a whim, with but a gesture, and you think that he's a "planetary level threat"?

Surfer can output power sufficient to create black holes and reignite stars... clearly he's much more than that.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
The 2 face off on some deserted planet, who takes it? H'm. Taking a second look at the OP...

...Surfer vaporizes the planet. TJ floats harmlessly...

Perhaps "No BFR" should've been stated, ie, literally no removal of the actual battlefield.

Originally posted by janus77
I think Trion's being a might too over-hyped by people here, with comparisons to Galactus and setting up battles against Spectre etcetera.

personally, i'd LOVE to see some proof that would show trion being above REGULAR juggs . . .

I don't regard Trion Juggernaut as powerful as others who overhype him much.
IMHO Silver Surfer FTW

Originally posted by leonidas
personally, i'd LOVE to see some proof that would show trion being above REGULAR juggs . . . I never saw regular Juggs physically bust through dimensions, like cheap wooden doors:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_trion_juggs1.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_trion_juggs2.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_trion_juggs3.jpg


*shrugs*

This scan alone make me think that he would trash surfer.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/trion_juggs1.jpg

Remember thor couldnt even faze 8th day juggernaut with none of his power. 8th day Juggernaut basically walked through everything thor dished out and kept going, thor=surfer and on panel thor has bested surfer. Now trion>>>8th day juggernaut. Trion wont even register surfer being there just like 8th day did to thor.

sorry but that's rather flimsy evidence for such a high placing of the character.

as I mentioned before, Hulk has smashed through the time stream, and without much effort.

nothing in the scans suggested 'universe wrecking' powers, nor do we see any conceivable offensive range-attacks. basically even if he had the might of a Galactus, he still hasn't shown any mobility or projectile attacks so Surfer's basically gonna stalemate him for eternity. nothing he can do to Surfer, unless Surfer permits it.

as for feats of endurance, I'd say taking a pounding from Tenebreous or Aegis and surviving ranks higher than the GodBlast.

for one thing, these are creatures in Galactus' tier, rather than Skyfather/high herald levels. for another, Surfer can completely regenerate from the ambient power cosmic, given time, so whatever Trion does, Surfer just needs to lie on his board and have it transport him out of reach of Trion, then recover from the injuries sustained...


I can't see Trion winning, it'd be reaching in the extreme to suggest Surfer wouldn't stalemate him.

Originally posted by Galan007
I never saw regular Juggs physically bust through dimensions, like cheap wooden doors:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_trion_juggs1.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_trion_juggs2.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_trion_juggs3.jpg


*shrugs*

if tom thought he was more powerful that's good enough for me. still see no way he ever hits ss let alone beats him. not sure what ss could do offensively to him though so . . .

as most juggs matches -- stalemate or ss wins via bfr.

SS can't land any decisive blows while Trion couldnt catch him, I could see that argument working except SS is constantly hit by guys slower then himself. Thor, Thanos,Black panther and even venom have all managed to tag him in the past so I dont see why Trion couldnt....plus when trion does tag him its lights out for norin.

both arguments are heavily flawed.

Surfer's been 'tagged' usually as a result of his trying to engage the opponent in dialogue or just "playing possum" and letting them think they've got one over him (because he's a pacifist and doesn't mind looking like he's losing, if it prevents a battle).

as for "lights out", if Tenebreous couldn't get the job done (and he whacked a small moon in the process) I very much doubt Trion will do it with one shot.


stalemate/edge to Surfer. nothing else happening.

Originally posted by janus77
both arguments are heavily flawed.

Surfer's been 'tagged' usually as a result of his trying to engage the opponent in dialogue or just "playing possum" and letting them think they've got one over him (because he's a pacifist and doesn't mind looking like he's losing, if it prevents a battle).

as for "lights out", if Tenebreous couldn't get the job done (and he whacked a small moon in the process) I very much doubt Trion will do it with one shot.


stalemate/edge to Surfer. nothing else happening. norrin would try and get cain out of his berserker state before actually engaging him in a fight.

juggernaut wasn't in control of his actions in trion state and surfer would recognize that after fixing a couple dimensional tears juggy, must be stopped before he causes more space/time damage.

Surfer can do that very well from a distance, he's far far faaaaar too fast for Cain/Juggernaut to ever lay a hand on. and it would only take a cursory scan of Trion's mind for Surfer to deem him a threat deserving of extreme caution.

think of this, Deathurge couldn't land a blow on Surfer, when he didn't want him to... what's Trion gonna do?


oh, what if Surfer tried to separate Trion from Cain, on the astral plane, whilst keeping his body intangible or in the microverse?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS can't land any decisive blows while Trion couldnt catch him, I could see that argument working except SS is constantly hit by guys slower then himself. Thor, Thanos,Black panther and even venom have all managed to tag him in the past so I dont see why Trion couldnt....plus when trion does tag him its lights out for norin.
Flash and Supes get tagged all the time too, does that mean that guys like Jugg's and Hulk should be able to get punches in on them in a forum fight?

Originally posted by janus77
sorry but that's rather flimsy evidence for such a high placing of the character.

as I mentioned before, Hulk has smashed through the time stream, and without much effort.

nothing in the scans suggested 'universe wrecking' powers, nor do we see any conceivable offensive range-attacks. basically even if he had the might of a Galactus, he still hasn't shown any mobility or projectile attacks so Surfer's basically gonna stalemate him for eternity. nothing he can do to Surfer, unless Surfer permits it.

as for feats of endurance, I'd say taking a pounding from Tenebreous or Aegis and surviving ranks higher than the GodBlast.

for one thing, these are creatures in Galactus' tier, rather than Skyfather/high herald levels. for another, Surfer can completely regenerate from the ambient power cosmic, given time, so whatever Trion does, Surfer just needs to lie on his board and have it transport him out of reach of Trion, then recover from the injuries sustained...


I can't see Trion winning, it'd be reaching in the extreme to suggest Surfer wouldn't stalemate him.

You do know that surfer almost died when tenebreous hit him with a moon busting punch. His body was wrecked and he was disgruntled. Punching through time stream punches>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>moon busting punches.

And how can you say trion wont touch him when people like hulk has tagged him without much effort. By the way can you show me hulk punching through a time stream, I would love to see this feat.

Theres nothing that surfer could do to trion. Trion easily 10/10

Originally posted by janus77
both arguments are heavily flawed.

Surfer's been 'tagged' usually as a result of his trying to engage the opponent in dialogue or just "playing possum" and letting them think they've got one over him (because he's a pacifist and doesn't mind looking like he's losing, if it prevents a battle).

as for "lights out", if Tenebreous couldn't get the job done (and he whacked a small moon in the process) I very much doubt Trion will do it with one shot.


stalemate/edge to Surfer. nothing else happening.

So youre comparing a moon busting feat to a dimension destroying feat. WOW.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Flash and Supes get tagged all the time too, does that mean that guys like Jugg's and Hulk should be able to get punches in on them in a forum fight?

If its happened on panel then I dont see why it should change on a forum fight. The difference with the flash and superman thing is that Superman goes h2h with his opponents, the people that flash fight either luck in and get a lick or they basically just land a single good lick on him. Bricks struggle to fight flash, bricks actually go h2h with superman and land almost every blow and silver surfer isnt any different.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that surfer almost died when tenebreous hit him with a moon busting punch. His body was wrecked and he was disgruntled. Punching through time stream punches>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>moon busting punches.

And how can you say trion wont touch him when people like hulk has tagged him without much effort. By the way can you show me hulk punching through a time stream, I would love to see this feat.

Theres nothing that surfer could do to trion. Trion easily 10/10
Sure there is, what would Jugg's do if Surfer sent him into the far future? I know he was supposed to be tearing down the walls of time and space with his punches but did he ever use the ability to actually time travel?

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer can do that very well from a distance, he's far far faaaaar too fast for Cain/Juggernaut to ever lay a hand on. and it would only take a cursory scan of Trion's mind for Surfer to deem him a threat deserving of extreme caution.

think of this, Deathurge couldn't land a blow on Surfer, when he didn't want him to... what's Trion gonna do?


oh, what if Surfer tried to separate Trion from Cain, on the astral plane, whilst keeping his body intangible or in the microverse?

Prove that surfer can do something like that against someone as powerful as trion who is surfers superior. Again, thats all it takes is one single punch and the fight is done and that punch should permanently kill surfer, wipe him from existence.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure there is, what would Jugg's do if Surfer sent him into the far future? I know he was supposed to be tearing down the walls of time and space with his punches but did he ever use the ability to actually time travel?

Im quite sure that trion has the ability to teleport. Didnt cytorrak teleport juggernaut when thor sent him to another dimension.

Originally posted by carver9
If its happened on panel then I dont see why it should change on a forum fight. The difference with the flash and superman thing is that Superman goes h2h with his opponents, the people that flash fight either luck in and get a lick or they basically just land a single good lick on him. Bricks struggle to fight flash, bricks actually go h2h with superman and land almost every blow and silver surfer isnt any different.
I understand that you don't have a problem with the idea of guys like Hulk and Jugg's getting their licks in against speedsters, but unless I'm mistaken GG DOES(at least in regards to guys like Supes). I was just making sure the same standard was being applied.

Originally posted by carver9
Im quite sure that trion has the ability to teleport. Didnt cytorrak teleport juggernaut when thor sent him to another dimension.
Teleportation and time travel are two different things. Did he ever actually travel through time in a controlled manner?

Originally posted by carver9
Prove that surfer can do something like that against someone as powerful as trion who is surfers superior. Again, thats all it takes is one single punch and the fight is done and that punch should permanently kill surfer, wipe him from existence.
Did Trion Jugg's actually one shot Thor?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Teleportation and time travel are two different things. Did he ever actually travel through time in a controlled manner?

Well Im guessing that since he did travel to a different universe (I think it was dark horse, I forgot the name of the team that he was on) and traveled back to the marvel universe that he should have the ability to time travel. Trion is the embodiment of cytorrak and again he has been put of galactus level so Im guessing that he does have that ability. Traveling from one universe to the other should be a answer for that question.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Did Trion Jugg's actually one shot Thor?

It wasnt trion that thor fought, it was eigth day juggernaut who didnt even have a percentage of trions power and he humiliated thor and the exemplers quite easily.

Lets not forget, thor and surfers are equals.

Originally posted by leonidas
if tom thought he was more powerful that's good enough for me. still see no way he ever hits ss let alone beats him. not sure what ss could do offensively to him though so . . .

as most juggs matches -- stalemate or ss wins via bfr.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure there is, what would Jugg's do if Surfer sent him into the far future? I know he was supposed to be tearing down the walls of time and space with his punches but did he ever use the ability to actually time travel? The ramifications of Juggy's dimensional 'attacks' tore a hole through local space and time. Said 'attacks' created a rift which continued expanding for an unknown amount of time, and showed no signs of stopping. Kinda like a mini chaos wave, from the sounds of it:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_trion3.jpg


So, could Juggy have used his dimension-busting powers to time travel? Absolutely. Did he do so on panel? Nope. Truth be told, we have no idea which dimension(s) he actually broke into.

srug.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I understand that you don't have a problem with the idea of guys like Hulk and Jugg's getting their licks in against speedsters, but unless I'm mistaken GG DOES(at least in regards to guys like Supes). I was just making sure the same standard was being applied.

I just go by on panel feats, why put up scans if other things that is on panel is thrown out the window. If you cant put up scans showing surfer, superman, wonderwoman, etc... being hit by bricks then I dont think that its right that anyone put up scans showing superman taking solar system blasts, or thor damaging a celestial, or surfer controlling the crunch. We go by on panel feats, thats the point of debating but when you have the ability to throw certain on panel feats that has been happening for decades out the window then that where the problem start to happen.

Just my opinion though.

Originally posted by Galan007


The ramifications of Juggy's dimensional 'attacks' tore a hole through local space and time. Said 'attacks' created a rift which continued expanding for an unknown amount of time, and showed no signs of stopping. Kinda like a mini chaos wave, from the sounds of it:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_trion3.jpg


So, could Juggy have used his dimension-busting powers to time travel? Absolutely. Did he do so on panel? Nope. Truth be told, we have no idea which dimension(s) he actually broke into.

srug.

Good post

Originally posted by carver9
Well Im guessing that since he did travel to a different universe (I think it was dark horse, I forgot the name of the team that he was on) and traveled back to the marvel universe that he should have the ability to time travel. Trion is the embodiment of cytorrak and again he has been put of galactus level so Im guessing that he does have that ability. Traveling from one universe to the other should be a answer for that question.

Traveling to a different universe is still different than time travel. If Surfer sends Jugg's to the future and Jugg's punches his way into another universe, he's still BFR'd. Thor was still teleporting to things like other dimensions long after he lost his ability to actually travel through time.


Originally posted by carver9
It wasnt trion that thor fought, it was eigth day juggernaut who didnt even have a percentage of trions power and he humiliated thor and the exemplers quite easily.

Lets not forget, thor and surfers are equals.
Ah, I got my versions of Jugg's mixed up, my bad. So since it's oblivious that the details of the Trion ordeal are a bit hazy in my mind, who DID Trion Jugg's one shot? Punching through dimensional barriers is an undoubtedly impressive feat(just as it is for Superboy Prime), but unquantifiable feats of it's kind are in no way unheard of. That single feat isn't enough to convince me that Trion one shot's someone with Surfer's level of durability.


Originally posted by carver9
I just go by on panel feats, why put up scans if other things that is on panel is thrown out the window. If you cant put up scans showing surfer, superman, wonderwoman, etc... being hit by bricks then I dont think that its right that anyone put up scans showing superman taking solar system blasts, or thor damaging a celestial, or surfer controlling the crunch. We go by on panel feats, thats the point of debating but when you have the ability to throw certain on panel feats that has been happening for decades out the window then that where the problem start to happen.

Just my opinion though.
And you're welcome to that opinion, but the Forum Rules don't support it.

Originally posted by Galan007
The ramifications of Juggy's dimensional 'attacks' tore a hole through local space and time. Said 'attacks' created a rift which continued expanding for an unknown amount of time, and showed no signs of stopping. Kinda like a mini chaos wave, from the sounds of it:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_trion3.jpg


So, could Juggy have used his dimension-busting powers to time travel? Absolutely. Did he do so on panel? Nope. Truth be told, we have no idea which dimension(s) he actually broke into.

srug.
Cool now let me ask you this, what kind of control was Trion showing when he was jumping around? Was he actually selecting his destinations or was it all pretty much random?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Cool now let me ask you this, what kind of control was Trion showing when he was jumping around? Was he actually selecting his destinations or was it all pretty much random? That's more or less what I was getting at. It's obvious that Juggs could have time traveled, based on what was shown/stated. But the fact is, he never showed us enough control over those abilities to say it's a feasible option for him in a vs. battle . He simply busted wildly through dimensional planes, without a care as to where he ended up.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Traveling to a different universe is still different than time travel. If Surfer sends Jugg's to the future and Jugg's punches his way into another universe, he's still BFR'd. Thor was still teleporting to things like other dimensions long after he lost his ability to actually travel through time.



Ah, I got my versions of Jugg's mixed up, my bad. So since it's oblivious that the details of the Trion ordeal are a bit hazy in my mind, who DID Trion Jugg's one shot? Punching through dimensional barriers is an undoubtedly impressive feat(just as it is for Superboy Prime), but unquantifiable feats of it's kind are in no way unheard of. That single feat isn't enough to convince me that Trion one shot's someone with Surfer's level of durability.



And you're welcome to that opinion, but the Forum Rules don't support it.

I understand about the time travel but if he can do all of this easily then he should be able to time travel.

Superboy prime feat and trion feat is totally different. Superman prime hands appeared to be leaning towards something physical, so his punches was basically hitting something on a physical plane (the feat is still impressive) whereas trion was punching through thin air.

I agree with that being my opinion thats why when I post things about bricks hitting surfer etc... my last remarks is "that my opinion though".

Originally posted by carver9
I understand about the time travel but if he can do all of this easily then he should be able to time travel.
But as Galan just pointed out, Jugg's never showed any control in regards to his ability to jump around. You're basically wagering that out of the infinite number of possible dimensions/timeline's Jugg's jumps to after he's BFR'd, he'll just HAPPEN to make it back to the battlefield.

Originally posted by carver9
Superboy prime feat and trion feat is totally different. Superman prime hands appeared to be leaning towards something physical, so his punches was basically hitting something on a physical plane (the feat is still impressive) whereas trion was punching through thin air.
The feats are different, but they're still comparable. Trion's method of delivery was more impressive, but the effects of SBP's punches was greater. Unquantifiable feats are just that, unquantifiable. The quantum mechanics behind those feats are beyond the human mind to comprehend so it's outright impossible to determine which feat is actually more impressive because we don't have the vaguest idea of just how strong someone would have to be to do either of them.

Tell you what, you think Jugg's feat was uber impressive because he was able to pierce space/time through strength alone right? Well Surfer's been able to tear holes in space/time through speed alone for years now. So what makes you think Jugg's will be able to withstand a bullrush from Surfer at full-speed?

Originally posted by Galan007
That's more or less what I was getting at. It's obvious that Juggs could have time traveled, based on what was shown/stated. But the fact is, he never showed us enough control over those abilities to say it's a feasible option for him in a vs. battle . He simply busted wildly through dimensional planes, without a care as to where he ended up.
Cool. Thanks for the info .

Originally posted by darthgoober
But as Galan just pointed out, Jugg's never showed any control in regards to his ability to jump around. You're basically wagering that out of the infinite number of possible dimensions/timeline's Jugg's jumps to after he's BFR'd, he'll just HAPPEN to make it back to the battlefield.


The feats are different, but they're still comparable. Trion's method of delivery was more impressive, but the effects of SBP's punches was greater. Unquantifiable feats are just that, unquantifiable. The quantum mechanics behind those feats are beyond the human mind to comprehend so it's outright impossible to determine which feat is actually more impressive because we don't have the vaguest idea of just how strong someone would have to be to do either of them.

Tell you what, you think Jugg's feat was uber impressive because he was able to pierce space/time through strength alone right? Well Surfer's been able to tear holes in space/time through speed alone for years now. So what makes you think Jugg's will be able to withstand a bullrush from Surfer at full-speed?

Good points.

The answer to your question about trion being able to take surfer flying at him at tremendous speed is basically revolving around trions durability. Think of it like this (I know I have brought this up a lot), Thor hit classic juggernaut with the god force but juggernaut didnt even feel it, the only thing that he was trying to accomplish was walking through it but galactus was hit by the same blast and screamed in pain and fled the planet due to not being able to take the blast.

Now my question to you is do you think surfer is > a hungry galactus?

Originally posted by carver9
Good points.

The answer to your question about trion being able to take surfer flying at him at tremendous speed is basically revolving around trions durability. Think of it like this (I know I have brought this up a lot), Thor hit classic juggernaut with the god force but juggernaut didnt even feel it, the only thing that he was trying to accomplish was walking through it but galactus was hit by the same blast and screamed in pain and fled the planet due to not being able to take the blast.

Now my question to you is do you think surfer is > a hungry galactus?

It would depend on how hungry Galactus is. In the instance you mentioned involving Thor for example, Galactus wasn't just hungry. He STARTED OFF hungry and then went through a massive battle with Ego before Thor nailed him with the Godblast so it's difficult to tell just how powerful he was when it happened. But I'm pretty sure I HAVE seen a hungry Galactus put on his ass by the Thing before so I think it's safe to say that there are plenty of instances of Surfer being portrayed in a better light(unless you disagree that Surfer>Thing).

Originally posted by darthgoober
It would depend on how hungry Galactus is. In the instance you mentioned involving Thor for example, Galactus wasn't just hungry. He STARTED OFF hungry and then went through a massive battle with Ego before Thor nailed him with the Godblast so it's difficult to tell just how powerful he was when it happened. But I'm pretty sure I HAVE seen a hungry Galactus put on his ass by the Thing before so I think it's safe to say that there are plenty of instances of Surfer being portrayed in a better light(unless you disagree that Surfer>Thing).

Wasnt it a hungry galactus that destroyed a solar system? How much of galactus energy does he put into his heralds when creating them and what percentage does galactus be at when he isnt fully powered. 50% or 10% and if its 50% are you saying that surfer is just that strong. Are you saying that surfer is half of what galactus is, if yes, I disagree.

I agree with you, thing shouldnt be putting galactus on his a** but black panther shouldnt be putting surfer in a arm lock. Both examples are pis. I dont even think that thing is 1% of galactus power but hey thing has some amazing feats under his belt like cracking the champions ribs.

Another question, when galactus is hungry, I know that it takes away from his overrall power but does it also take away from his durability. I dont think that there is any on panel proof saying this.

Originally posted by carver9
Wasnt it a hungry galactus that destroyed a solar system? How much of galactus energy does he put into his heralds when creating them and what percentage does galactus be at when he isnt fully powered. 50% or 10% and if its 50% are you saying that surfer is just that strong. Are you saying that surfer is half of what galactus is, if yes, I disagree.
No I'm saying that Surfer's "average" showings are more impressive than some of Galactus's showings while he's hungry. Thus using the Thor/Galactus encounter as a reference as to whether or not Surfer could hurt Juggernaut discussion is a flawed train of thought because Galactus was hungry and weakened at the time. Let me ask you this, has Jugg's ever been hurt or taken out by less than Thor's Godblast?

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with you, thing shouldnt be putting galactus on his a** but black panther shouldnt be putting surfer in a arm lock. Both examples are pis. I dont even think that thing is 1% of galactus power but hey thing has some amazing feats under his belt like cracking the champions ribs.
Wrong rule actually, Thing/Galactus and Black Panther/Surfer fall more under the category of SvFL than PIS(though both did contain elements of PIS as well).

Originally posted by carver9
Another question, when galactus is hungry, I know that it takes away from his overrall power but does it also take away from his durability. I dont think that there is any on panel proof saying this.
What more proof do you need than bad showings when he's hungry and the knowledge that he's less powerful at the time?

Originally posted by darthgoober
No I'm saying that Surfer's "average" showings are more impressive than some of Galactus's showings while he's hungry. Thus using the Thor/Galactus encounter as a reference as to whether or not Surfer could hurt Juggernaut discussion is a flawed train of thought because Galactus was hungry and weakened at the time. Let me ask you this, has Jugg's ever been hurt or taken out by less than Thor's Godblast?


Wrong rule actually, Thing/Galactus and Black Panther/Surfer fall more under the category of SvFL than PIS(though both did contain elements of PIS).


What more proof do you need than bad showings when he's hungry and the knowledge that he's less powerful at the time?

QUOTE=10803320]Originally posted by darthgoober
No I'm saying that Surfer's "average" showings are more impressive than some of Galactus's showings while he's hungry. Thus using the Thor/Galactus encounter as a reference as to whether or not Surfer could hurt Juggernaut discussion is a flawed train of thought because Galactus was hungry and weakened at the time. Let me ask you this, has Jugg's ever been hurt or taken out by less than Thor's Godblast?

Wrong rule actually, Thing/Galactus and Black Panther/Surfer fall more under the category of SvFL than PIS(though both did contain elements of PIS).

What more proof do you need than bad showings when he's hungry and the knowledge that he's less powerful at the time?

Originally posted by carver9
QUOTE=10803320]Originally posted by darthgoober
No I'm saying that Surfer's "average" showings are more impressive than some of Galactus's showings while he's hungry. Thus using the Thor/Galactus encounter as a reference as to whether or not Surfer could hurt Juggernaut discussion is a flawed train of thought because Galactus was hungry and weakened at the time. Let me ask you this, has Jugg's ever been hurt or taken out by less than Thor's Godblast?

Wrong rule actually, Thing/Galactus and Black Panther/Surfer fall more under the category of SvFL than PIS(though both did contain elements of PIS).

What more proof do you need than bad showings when he's hungry and the knowledge that he's less powerful at the time?

I did it backward darth, just read whats in the box. Trying to learn how to use it.

Originally posted by carver9
The only things that I have seen that dropped juggernaut has been sonics which has basically had an affect towards a lot of top tiers. But besides that, no, I havent witness anything under a god force taking jugz down. Besides telepath has he ever been taken down.
And what, you don't think Surfer could whip up some ultra powerful sonics if it became necessary? And Surfer has telepathy...

Originally posted by carver9
That wasnt the point of my question, I wanted to know was there any proof that stated that galactus durability drops once he is weakened. I understand his power dropping but what about his durability? I have seen a hungry galactus stalemate the phoenix, so he cant be that weak. This is my first time using this quote thing so I hope it came out right. If it didnt I'll retype everything.

I'm almost positive there has been even though I can't think of a specific instance off the top of my head. If nothing else I can all but guarantee there's been off hand comments to the effect of "He's weakened, now we can stop him".

Originally posted by carver9
I did it backward darth, just read whats in the box. Trying to learn how to use it.
Don't worry about it. It can be kinda tricky until you get the hang of it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And what, you don't think Surfer could whip up some ultra powerful sonics if it became necessary? And Surfer has telepathy... Assuming Surfer was able to get Juggy's helmet off, sure .

He might could whip up something on regular jugz but since trion is so far above jugs I dont think that the same trick would work on him. If surfer by some amazing miracle control the crunch again, thats about the only way I could see him winning.




I havent seen anything in a galactus book ever stating anything about his durability dipleating but hey, you might be right. Again a hungry galactus fought phoenix AND a weakened galactus was holding his own against tenebrous. I could have sworn that a weakened galactus also defeated ego the planet on numerous of occasions and fought off thanos and could have killed him whenever he wanted.



I think I found out how to do it thanks though.

Originally posted by carver9
He might could whip up something on regular jugz but since trion is so far above jugs I dont think that the same trick would work on him. If surfer by some amazing miracle control the crunch again, thats about the only way I could see him winning.
If sonics aren't dependant on durability then it wouldn't matter if Jugg's was more powerful would it? And was it specifically stated that Jugg's was more durable or resistant to telepathy in the arc?

Originally posted by carver9
I havent seen anything in a galactus book ever stating anything about his durability dipleating but hey, you might be right. Again a hungry galactus fought phoenix AND a weakened galactus was holding his own against tenebrous. I could have sworn that a weakened galactus also defeated ego the planet on numerous of occasions and fought off thanos and could have killed him whenever he wanted.
Actually Galactus has one win, one loss, and one win with help against Ego. The first time they fought Galactus won after a hard fight and was then driven off by Ego, then latter Ego tracked Galactus down and Galactus ran away to get Thor's help, and then in the last fight Thor helped distract Ego long enough for Galactus to attach a propulsion device to Ego's south pole. And when Galactus and Thanos momentarily butted heads, Galactus was specifically stated as being well nourished(that's why the blast feat is so impressive for Thanos).

But yeah he does have some good showings depending on just how hungry he is at the time, the point I was making is that he was EXTREMELY hungry and weakened when Thor ran him off.

I know sonics is something that doesnt impacts the durability but when nimrod used sonics against juggernaut he had to remove his helmet to do so. So if his helmet still on and his forcefield up (which he barely use) then nimrods attempts would have been flawed.



Agreed and understood but I guess we will never know that if galactus isnt at full power he lose his high durability. Thats the point of my post that I was making about galactus battles. Even though he was hungry, he was holding off beings that could destroy a solar system at a whim or crush planets with a thought. So im guessing that if he was able to stand against there crushing might then he should have stood just fine against the god force if he could take as much punishment as trion who again is>>>>>>classic juggernaut.



So with this post youre basically saying that thor>> a weakened galactus because he basically one shotted him. I can agree with him being damaged by thors attack but I dont care how weak galactus is thor would never pull of even one of the feats that galactus has pulled in a weakened state.

Originally posted by carver9
I know sonics is something that doesnt impacts the durability but when nimrod used sonics against juggernaut he had to remove his helmet to do so. So if his helmet still on and his forcefield up (which he barely use) then nimrods attempts would have been flawed.
You already said that the reason you can see Jugg's tagging Surfer is that other characters have done it because Surfer rarely uses speed in combat right? But now you're saying that Jugg's is going to have his forcefield(which he almost never uses) up to keep his helmet from being removed? It seems to me that you're trying to have it both ways here. Either both use things that are rarely seen which means that Surfer can't hurt Jugg's but Jugg's will be completely unable to hit Surfer and Norrin will eventually win via BFR, or they don't use those things and Surfer can still win via BFR, but can also win using sonics or telepathy.



Originally posted by carver9
Agreed and understood but I guess we will never know that if galactus isnt at full power he lose his high durability. Thats the point of my post that I was making about galactus battles. Even though he was hungry, he was holding off beings that could destroy a solar system at a whim or crush planets with a thought. So im guessing that if he was able to stand against there crushing might then he should have stood just fine against the god force if he could take as much punishment as trion who again is>>>>>>classic juggernaut.
Where was it specifically stated that Trion Jugg's was more durable than regular Jugg's?



Originally posted by carver9
So with this post youre basically saying that thor>> a weakened galactus because he basically one shotted him. I can agree with him being damaged by thors attack but I dont care how weak galactus is thor would never pull of even one of the feats that galactus has pulled in a weakened state.
You'd be surprised actually. Thor's ran of Celestials before and I don't really see that happening for Galactus if at the time Galactus is so weak that he needs Thor and Hercules's help to beat Ego .

Trion juggernaut had no control over the power or his actions. It's more of an impressive feat for Cyttorak than it was for Juggs since he was amped with a mere fraction of Cyttoraks power and getting more and more powerful.

SS's brand of telepathy would never work on Trion Juggernaut. Chucks brand didn't even work. SS can't win this fight.

I'm sure Delph can come up with at least 10 ways for Surfer to win.

Well, being that herald levels of the power cosmic bounce off Classic Juggernaut like they're nothing. He can try, I guess.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Trion juggernaut had no control over the power or his actions. It's more of an impressive feat for Cyttorak than it was for Juggs since he was amped with a mere fraction of Cyttoraks power and getting more and more powerful.

SS's brand of telepathy would never work on Trion Juggernaut. Chucks brand didn't even work. SS can't win this fight.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure there is, what would Jugg's do if Surfer sent him into the far future? I know he was supposed to be tearing down the walls of time and space with his punches but did he ever use the ability to actually time travel?

Originally posted by darthgoober
lol that sig is hilarious.

Trion has absolutely no chance of hitting surfer if surfer does not want him too. Against deathurge surfer showed how fast he can be in battle if he really wants to let go. Usually against bricks like hulk surfer holds back immensely and tries to talk them out of fighting. In almost all his fights he first tries the dialogue approach before he starts fighting. Evn when he satrts fighting he still holds back so as not to cause huge destruction or kill his opponent.. Surfer cant win if he tries to ko trion thats for sure but BFR is a very valid option. HE can teleport trion far into the future or past. Trion certainly does not have the general knowledge of time and space to be able to properly navigate himself back to the original time period. HE would just keep punching from dimension to dimension not knowing the time period he is in.

I didnt use my statement against surfer about jugz forcefield, I was basically saying that the only reason nimrod was able to even do anything against juggernaut was due to the fact that his helmet was removed. We both know that juggernaut dont use his force field (which he should but he really dont need it), thats why I NEVER used it in this debate because honestly the guy really dont need it since his hide is invulnerable enough.

I agree, if I cant bring up the tagging thing with surfer then I sure as hell shouldnt be bringing up juggernaut forcefield but juggernaut has already walked through damage that even the mightiest beings would fall to, without his forcefield aiding him. I also agree that surfer ONLY option is bfring, I never argued against that point.



Im guessing that since he was 100's of time stronger then him and cytorrak is the embodiment of true invulnerability and strength and along with professor stating that the only way he could slow trion down was him going to astral form that there was no other way of stopping him. Also think about it like this, Juggernaut is already in hulks and thor league of strength (I actually consider him stronger since on panel it has stated numerous of times that he have unlimited strength) but during the early time that he was transforming into trion his strength was increased so high that he was punching through dimensions and he was still growing in power. So if his strength was increasing to my guess his durability should have been increasing also.



I would never be surprise enough to ever think that thor is even partial of galactus might. I understand that he help take on ego along with herc but thats not a high end feat since gladiator stalemated ego and beta ray bill also gave ego a run for his money. Ego is a powerful character but he has never proven to me (besides him actually fighting galactus which thanos has done also) that he on galactus level. The planet has trouble fighting top tiers.