Will The Joker Always Overshadow Batman on Film?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



SelinaAndBruce
I have been reading many reviews of the Dark Knight and almost all of them say that Christian Bale was completely outdone by Heath Ledger and that even though both characters play a driving force in the movie it is Ledger's performance and Joker that truly stands out and makes Batman seem rather dull many of the reviews imply or flat out say (I'm using the Rotten Tomatoes website and blogs).

Now I recall many complaints about Batman 1989 being that the Joker also had more to do and some people feeling that Jack Nicholson's performance upstaged Michael Keaton's as well. With some similar points being made in regards to the Dark Knight, do you think the Joker as an on screen character is just so larger than life that he manages to upstage everyone in the film because he is allowed to be so out of control and insane and animated?

ScarletSpeed
To be honest I just peg it all down to casting,

Jack Nicholson is such a legendary actor that it would be hard for even the best actor to try and upstage him.

and now everyone will have their eyes on Ledger due to his recent passing away, sad but true.


plus The Joker is such a colorful charismatic character that it would be hard not to over shadow anyone.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by ScarletSpeed
To be honest I just peg it all down to casting,

Jack Nicholson is such a legendary actor that it would be hard for even the best actor to try and upstage him.

and now everyone will have their eyes on Ledger due to his recent passing away, sad but true.


plus The Joker is such a colorful charismatic character that it would be hard not to over shadow anyone.

Bat Dude
No one seems to mind Joker upstaging Batman this time around...

Back in 1989, fanboys were getting their pitchforks and torches ready because Joker upstaged Batman... Now, it seems nobody really minds...

I don't know if that's attention to Ledger's last role, if it's Nolan bias, or if people have finally mellowed out about it, but something definitely happened...

Endrict Nuul
Keaton was upstaged because he acted like a goof in the movie at times.

SelinaAndBruce
Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Keaton was upstaged because he acted like a goof in the movie at times.
I didn't find very much goofy about Keaton's portrayal as Batman. His Bruce Wayne was at times awkard but I definitely don't think that caused him to be upstaged by Nicholson.

ScarletSpeed
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I didn't find very much goofy about Keaton's portrayal as Batman. His Bruce Wayne was at times awkard but I definitely don't think that caused him to be upstaged by Nicholson.

yeah, that was Nicholson's natural charismalaughing out loud

SelinaAndBruce
Originally posted by ScarletSpeed
yeah, that was Nicholson's natural charismalaughing out loud
Yup IA plus the Joker is a character that the person who is playing it IMO can go more so all out with and kind of push the envelope. I mean I love Batman but the Joker just tends to be more fun to watch in general...though nothing beats Batman speeding down the street in that wicked ass Batmobile in 1989

Emil Blonsky
Yes, because of the simple fact that when people hear about the Joker being in a Batman film, that's who they want to see in action. I myself even rooted for the Joker when I was a child & am doing so again. The Joker is an icon & will always be one. He's going to upstage anyone you throw him in there with.

SelinaAndBruce
Emil I agree I have always loved the Joker as a villain I think that is a testament to how amazing he is is that I want him to succeed almost as much as I want Batman to kick his ass. I really can't think of any other villain that Batman faces that I feel that way about.

Emil Blonsky
I love Two-Face & many of Batman's villains, but you just don't feel for them the way you feel for the Joker. I know you know exactly what I mean.

SelinaAndBruce
Two face is my second favorite Batman villain, but as you said it's not the same as the Joker. The only person who comes close for me is Catwoman but I see her more as a foil or a vigilante than an actual villain. I find myself wanting her to succeed as well or cause enough trouble to get Bats attention because I love their interaction, as my screenname probably reveals, lol

Emil Blonsky
I really would love to see a story where they're actually together...with kids. Imagine that. big grin

Myth
Adam West was better than the guy that played Joker in the old Batman movie, so the answer to the question is no.

Emil Blonsky
Both Adam West & Caesar Romero sucked.

Devil King
Comics Code Authority sucked.

Emil Blonsky
What are you talking about?

Placidity
Probably not "always".

You need someone very talented to play his character well. Right now, I don't see anyone that can live up to the legendary standard that Ledger has set for Joker.

Endrict Nuul
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I didn't find very much goofy about Keaton's portrayal as Batman. His Bruce Wayne was at times awkard but I definitely don't think that caused him to be upstaged by Nicholson.

He was great at Batman but was super goofy as Bruce. This didn't help for his role.

Emil Blonsky
He wasn't super goofy but he could've been better in the role. I just think he was upstaged by Nicholson's Joker because...well, Nicholson nailed the Joker back then. His portrayal just kicked ass.

ScarletSpeed
Originally posted by Emil Blonsky
Yes, because of the simple fact that when people hear about the Joker being in a Batman film, that's who they want to see in action. I myself even rooted for the Joker when I was a child & am doing so again. The Joker is an icon & will always be one. He's going to upstage anyone you throw him in there with.


The Joker wasn't voted the greatest supervillain of all time for nothingsmile

Emil Blonsky
My sentiments exactly. I can't stand to wait another day to see Heath. I'm going to explode on the exact day the movie is released.

SelinaAndBruce
Originally posted by Myth
Adam West was better than the guy that played Joker in the old Batman movie, so the answer to the question is no.
That's a good point.

Emil Blonsky
Adam West was a horrible Batman. Heck, everyone in that show was horrible. But, I don't suppose he was worse than George Clooney who I hate with a passion.

SelinaAndBruce
I found the Batman TV show entertaining for what it was as a kid. Now I can't stand the sight of it.

Emil Blonsky
With me being 14 & having been exposed to TAS, the three good Batman movies from the old franchise, and Batman Begins, I could never look at the old show. I think Adam West is very funny & entertaining but Batman he is not.

Bat Dude
Originally posted by Emil Blonsky
With me being 14 & having been exposed to TAS, the three good Batman movies from the old franchise, and Batman Begins, I could never look at the old show. I think Adam West is very funny & entertaining but Batman he is not.

Of course he's not Batman...

He's Mayor West...

ScarletSpeed
Originally posted by Bat Dude
Of course he's not Batman...

He's Mayor West...



yes equipped with his trusty cat launcherlaughing

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I have been reading many reviews of the Dark Knight and almost all of them say that Christian Bale was completely outdone by Heath Ledger and that even though both characters play a driving force in the movie it is Ledger's performance and Joker that truly stands out and makes Batman seem rather dull many of the reviews imply or flat out say (I'm using the Rotten Tomatoes website and blogs).

Now I recall many complaints about Batman 1989 being that the Joker also had more to do and some people feeling that Jack Nicholson's performance upstaged Michael Keaton's as well. With some similar points being made in regards to the Dark Knight, do you think the Joker as an on screen character is just so larger than life that he manages to upstage everyone in the film because he is allowed to be so out of control and insane and animated?

Because the actor who played him died the same year it comes out.

sithsaber408
Also, the reviews mention Bale as "bland, or stoic" and that's how he should be.

Bruce Wayne is not Tony "Just happy to be home" Stark. He's a serious, dedicated, slightly insane man who's decided to wage a one-man war on crime to deal with inner demons.

He's not supposed to "lighten up" or "have a little fun" (one retarded review that I read actually suggested that. They can go watch the Schumacher films if they please), he's supposed to be the straight man, especially when compared to a character like the Joker.

Hopefully, by the time we watch this one, we're invested enough in Bale as Bruce that we care about what this crazy guy does to his life and don't worry about him being "upstaged".

SelinaAndBruce
I just think people in general are more drawn to the Joker and his antics. He's so deliciously fun to watch. But I just remember a lot of people saying one of the problems with Batman 1989 is that it should have been called The Joker instead because the Joker was such a driving force in that movie in the eyes of many. However I am seeing similar things said about Heath Ledger's Joker in this movie too. So I am wondering if it is that the Joker is so larger than life you can't help but be drawn in by him and all others seem to pale in comparison.

One review which was positive even said the Joker is so captivating it's kind of boring when he isn't on screen. I mean that says a lot.

Micheal_Myers
I'm here to claim that even post death, I didnt go to see Heath Ledger's final role. I went to see a Batman film, and what I got simply blew me away. Heath Ledger just portrayed the joker so much better than his predecessors.

SelinaAndBruce
Heath's Joker was amazing. Still hated the make up and it did take me a minute to totally immerse myself into the idea that he was the Joker but once I did man it was a joy to watch. The whole movie was spectacular. My only complaints are Maggie G, and Bale's HIDEOUS and HORRIBLE Bat voice.

Myth
Originally posted by Emil Blonsky
Adam West was a horrible Batman. Heck, everyone in that show was horrible. But, I don't suppose he was worse than George Clooney who I hate with a passion.

That may be, but I still think his "horrible" Batman was better than the "horrible" Joker he battled.

By the way, the old Batman series/movie was great entertainment, just not for quality purposes. How could you not laugh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0UJaprpxrk

Emil Blonsky
That Joker just looks annoying as hell to watch. But I know I've laughed quite a few times at the way Adam West looks. He was just so...out of shape & wrong as Batman. laughing out loud

Micheal_Myers
Never know when your gonna need that Shark Repellant Bat Spray.

Outbound
Originally posted by Micheal_Myers
I'm here to claim that even post death, I didnt go to see Heath Ledger's final role. I went to see a Batman film, and what I got simply blew me away. Heath Ledger just portrayed the joker so much better than his predecessors.

^ What he said. The trailer/pics/advertising came out before Ledger died, and even then he looked like a favorable character. I think a bunch of people will jump on the Heath Ledger bandwagon, it was bound to happen, but I remember reading this forum when the very first shot of Ledger in make up came out, most people didnt like it. Once more photos of him in costume came out, it got exciting and people liked it.

I think the Joker always overshadowed Batman for this movie, unfortunately Ledger's death has overshadowed more.

Mairuzu
Well in this film, joker sure stole every scene from batman

Joker1237
Joker is always going to upstage Batman.
Batman is the strong slient type, and Joker is the guy with the one liners. It happens.

Even in BTAS, Joker when he appear most times upstage Batman on his own TV show. And the movie for the series, Once again Luke Skywalker(lol) upstage Batman. Joker is just too colorful.

marwash22
Well, the Joker character is so much more, for lack of better wording... flamboyant! He;s way moe over the top, so yeah, he will and he is supposed to.

Emil Blonsky
Heath did it! He upstaged Bale's Batman.

Darth Martin
I thought Batman was great in this film. The Joker was pretty aweswome though.

Emil Blonsky
Both were great, but Heath's Joker was too awesome. He surpassed every comic villain to date.

batdude123
The answer to this question in the Dark Knight's case is a definite "yes."

Plutonic_Hat90
Like some people said before, the joker is just a cooler character in general. Bruce Wayne/Batman is actually almost boring... he doesn't really have any personality.

Which by the way, did anyone notice that Bruce was barely even in the movie? It seemed like he was almost a secondary character, especially when you compare it to other movies like spiderman 2 for instance. I think he actually got less screen time then Harvey or maybe even rachel

super pr*xy
because they can afford bruce not to have much screen time in this movie. most of the focus was on gotham city and the joker's intent. unlike begins which was an "introductory" movie.

heath's portrayal was brilliant. he made nicholson's joker look like a daycare administrator.

jrodslam
Yea. Joker will always overshadow batsman on film. Hes more of an in your face type of character. Hes loud and does things on a big scale as to where Batman is quiet, and lacks the huge personality joker has.

If Joker is played right, he will always overshadow Bats. Every single time.

Endrict Nuul
Joker does it again.....

SelinaAndBruce
Love. That. Joker

Emil Blonsky
Definitely. And if you don't, you can get a cut smile.

brainchild81
Originally posted by jrodslam
Yea. Joker will always overshadow batsman on film. Hes more of an in your face type of character. Hes loud and does things on a big scale as to where Batman is quiet, and lacks the huge personality joker has.

If Joker is played right, he will always overshadow Bats. Every single time. Ditto

Emil Blonsky
I think the only time he didn't overshadow Bats was when Adam West was Bats but then again, both were horrible.

Aurora
Completely overshadowed him everytime he was on screen! Heath was fantasic at making you hang on every sadistic word that he uddered and hold you. His speech patterns were great and freaky.

Emil Blonsky
I know, especially when he first walked in on the mobsters. Great scene. Also, another thing that made this Joker great is that he physically crushed skulls this time & was only a pansy at fighting when he wanted to be. See how easily he owned that guard who thought he was the shit?

Mr Parker
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I have been reading many reviews of the Dark Knight and almost all of them say that Christian Bale was completely outdone by Heath Ledger and that even though both characters play a driving force in the movie it is Ledger's performance and Joker that truly stands out and makes Batman seem rather dull many of the reviews imply or flat out say (I'm using the Rotten Tomatoes website and blogs).

Now I recall many complaints about Batman 1989 being that the Joker also had more to do and some people feeling that Jack Nicholson's performance upstaged Michael Keaton's as well. With some similar points being made in regards to the Dark Knight, do you think the Joker as an on screen character is just so larger than life that he manages to upstage everyone in the film because he is allowed to be so out of control and insane and animated?

yeah I think so.ScarletSpeed said it pretty well.

BigRed
Technically it was Joker's movie though considering he won in the end.

So I have no problem with him overshadowing Batman.

Da Joker
Yes, that's a point many others have made, and I like that the villain won. He would've really won had Batman not caught him from going splat.

Also, did it seem to anyone like the Joker was waiting to get killed? He basically tested everyone and they couldn't kill him. Now that's a supernatural force of nature.

Mr Parker
Yeah The Joker has always overshadowed him,always will.Romero overshadowed him,Nicholson overshadowed him,Hamill overshadowed him,now Ledger.Thats a given he will always overshadow him cause he always gets all the funny lines and funny stuff to do where Batman is always serious all the time so the Joker always steals the scenes.Thats why Im glad they waited till The Dark Knight to use the joker. smile

SelinaAndBruce
I am glad they waited till the Dark Knight to use the Joker too because this film was so good

Neo Darkhalen
Quick answer: yes.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.