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Gunnery Sergeant Bob Lee Swagger from the movie "Shooter", and the novels written by Stephen Hunter:

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Versus Batman, any of the movie versions.

Same storyline as the movie Shooter, except it takes place in Gotham. Bob Lee Swagger is framed for shooting the Ethiopian archbishop, and is on the run trying to clear his name, and the Bat is called upon to bring him to justice.

Swagger escapes Gotham to his home state of Arkansas, and decides to make a stand there. He arms himself with a .50 caliber sniper rifle, H&K G36 assault rifle, as well as two .45 automatics as sidearms. He also has all the standard sniper gear: Ghille suits, claymores, the works.

Swagger positions himself atop a hill with a long twisting road as the only way to it's top as the Bat comes into the view, in the Batmobile, a thousand yards away, determined to bring him to justice.

I know, the Bat is the Bat, and Swagger is just another guy, but do your research on Swagger before rushing to judgement on this matchup.

Haha, Batman

I thought it was swagger vs deadshot

Daedshot is not a movie character.

He is in Gotham Knight!

Is that a movie?

Yea kinda

well, another thread another time....How about this matchup?

I should probably state that the road only leads so far, that Batman must exit his vehicle and pursue Swagger on foot at a certain point. Also that claymores have been placed at strategic locations throughout the woods, claymores that would shred the Bat if steps into their blast radius.

Batman dismantles bombs, researches all types of shooting techniques as well as hand to hand combat, this is a cakewalk to Batman. Bob Lee is good, however if he's not sniping, he's fighting hand to hand. Something that Batman can sustain, however Batman's judgement to combat at close quarters is to restrain, it's what he does. From afar, Batarang around Bob Lee, he plops to the floor like a fish.

By this time, you'll probably pull a "Bob Lee waits for Bats with a millions firearms, snipes him, bombs him, burns him." Yeah, like Batman would walk into a trap. there's a reason why they call him the night as well as the knight. He uses the element of surprise as well as his cunning speed. I've seen Batman dupe snipers with his long flowing cape, they don't know what to shoot if his cape is flowing everywhere. He's even used scarecrow posts to confuse snipers, and after watching Batman Begins, it seems Bale's Batman is way deadlier since we just don't exactly know what sort of training he's gone through. We see his ninja training pointed out, but before that he ran with thieves and fought inmates for the hell of it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I should probably state that the road only leads so far, that Batman must exit his vehicle and pursue Swagger on foot at a certain point. Also that claymores have been placed at strategic locations throughout the woods, claymores that would shred the Bat if steps into their blast radius.

Also you've made this alittle one-sided. The same could be said about Batman.

Swagger wants to take out the Bat for some reasons, Bats sends him an encoded message him to meet somewhere in the Batcave, Swagger is walking into an ambush. How's that fair? These Vs. threads are meant to be about equal rights, not "come get me".

Originally posted by Scythe
Batman dismantles bombs, researches all types of shooting techniques as well as hand to hand combat, this is a cakewalk to Batman. Bob Lee is good, however if he's not sniping, he's fighting hand to hand. Something that Batman can sustain, however Batman's judgement to combat at close quarters is to restrain, it's what he does. From afar, Batarang around Bob Lee, he plops to the floor like a fish.

By this time, you'll probably pull a "Bob Lee waits for Bats with a millions firearms, snipes him, bombs him, burns him." Yeah, like Batman would walk into a trap. there's a reason why they call him the night as well as the knight. He uses the element of surprise as well as his cunning speed. I've seen Batman dupe snipers with his long flowing cape, they don't know what to shoot if his cape is flowing everywhere. He's even used scarecrow posts to confuse snipers, and after watching Batman Begins, it seems Bale's Batman is way deadlier since we just don't exactly know what sort of training he's gone through. We see his ninja training pointed out, but before that he ran with thieves and fought inmates for the hell of it. Boe Lee can do more than sniping and hand to hand, did you not see shooter, or actually research him?

Boe Lee confused by a scarecrow post? Now thats just ludicrous.

Originally posted by Scythe
Also you've made this alittle one-sided. The same could be said about Batman.

Swagger wants to take out the Bat for some reasons, Bats sends him an encoded message him to meet somewhere in the Batcave, Swagger is walking into an ambush. How's that fair? These Vs. threads are meant to be about equal rights, not "come get me". One sided? All the gear I have given Swagger is pretty much standard gear for snipers.

Hey, Swagger is on the run, remember? Why would he come after the Bat? AND, isn't that what Batman does? Go after criminals?

This is a good matchup, good conditions, with both combatants utilizing the best of their talents. Btas armor, BTW, aint gonna help against a .50 caliber sniper round.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Boe Lee can do more than sniping and hand to hand, did you not see shooter, or actually research him?

Boe Lee confused by a scarecrow post? Now thats just ludicrous.

Never said Swagger would be confused by scarecrows, I said it's one of Batman's tactics.

I researched Swagger, even the crappy novels that were put out. I've read one of them and didn't really like it. The movie was great though, I loved it.

I just think Bats can overtake him.

Just like that? "Bats can overtake him"?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
One sided? All the gear I have given Swagger is pretty much standard gear for snipers.

Hey, Swagger is on the run, remember? Why would he come after the Bat? AND, isn't that what Batman does? Go after criminals?

This is a good matchup, good conditions, with both combatants utilizing the best of their talents. Btas armor, BTW, aint gonna help against a .50 caliber sniper round.

Nah, to me, these Vs. threads are better off in an equal "I can see you" they'd have everything at their disposal but of equal amounts.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Just like that? "Bats can overtake him"?

imo, yes.

Originally posted by Scythe
Nah, to me, these Vs. threads are better off in an equal "I can see you" they'd have everything at their disposal but of equal amounts. This thread is a perfect scenario, with both guys doing what they do best. But hey, I guess you are going to choose to ignore that.

In this scenario, the Bat LOSES.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This thread is a perfect scenario, with both guys doing what they do best. But hey, I guess you are going to choose to ignore that.

I have not, this is me adding my choice of who would win. Why would I let your words sway me otherwise? I believe Batman can blend into the shadows and become the night itself. He has thermal goggles, he works best in pitch black, I believe he can take this fight. Nothing can sway me otherwise, sorry.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
In this scenario, the Bat LOSES.

Cuz you tailored it like that.

Originally posted by Scythe
I have not, this is me adding my choice of who would win. Why would I let your words sway me otherwise? I believe Batman can blend into the shadows and become the night itself. He has thermal goggles, he works best in pitch black, I believe he can take this fight. Nothing can sway me otherwise, sorry. Swagger is a sniper, man, he has thermal goggles too. Lets say the Bat is canny enough to avoid the sniper fire, AND claymores. You think Swagger is gonna MISS with his G-36? He will tear the Bat to pieces, plain and simple. And who said this fight is at night?



Tell me, what does the Bat do? At night, what does he busy himself with?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Swagger is a sniper, man, he has thermal goggles too. Lets say the Bat is canny enough to avoid the sniper fire, AND claymores. You think Swagger is gonna MISS with his G-36? He will tear the Bat to pieces, plain and simple. And who said this fight is at night?

You're saying Batman would go after Swagger, he'd most likely go during the night, he's...ya know...Batman afterall.

Regardless, you've given the impression that you believe Swagger would win, I respect that, I don't agree with it, so I think Bats would win, stop trying to prove otherwise.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Tell me, what does the Bat do? At night, what does he busy himself with?

I don't even know what to makee of this question. I hope you know he's a comic/movie character.

Originally posted by Scythe
You're saying Batman would go after Swagger, he'd most likely go during the night, he's...ya know...Batman afterall.

Regardless, you've given the impression that you believe Swagger would win, I respect that, I don't agree with it, so I think Bats would win, stop trying to prove otherwise.This is what the thread is for, you saying how Bat would win, me saying how Swagger would win. "He just would, he's the Bat!!!" is WEAK.



The Bat hunts down and brings criminals to justice, he goes after them, correct?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This is what the thread is for, you saying how Bat would win, me saying how Swagger would win. "He just would, he's the Bat!!!" is WEAK.

I'm sure I've posted several ways Batman would win this. Element of surprise, restraining Swagger, outsmarting Swagger, I'm not a firm believer in "Yeah, Bats would do that, but Swagger WILL do this against him!!!zomg!!" That's your favorite tactic.

If you must rest easy than here's how things might possibly turn out. Batman knows Swagger is in AK, he has Alfred spot him from the Batcave via satellite. Alfred can do this, since it was featured in his fight with Deadshot which is an extension to Batman Begins. Since we're throwing in the novels Swagger was featured in, why not toss in Gotham Knight, since it was a movie, it was more than an hour long for god's sake.

So he has Alfred spot him, thermal detection can be utilized by Alfred as well as sonic waves, since Bale's Batman had the high frequency "bat ears" in Begins.

Keep in mind Batman is not a CHARGE RIGHT AT 'EM kind of man, he has more skill than that. Bat's visors can detect C4 or any other type of explosive, which he can disarm.

I might believe Swagger might get a shot on Bats, maybe not in the face since Batman tries to avoid that. He knows how to handle snipers.

One shot, and that gives away his location, even if he chooses a new location, it become a game of cat and mouse. Once Bats gets close enough, sniper rifles are useless, thus restraints come into play. Batman doesn't kill, this is something Batman DOESN'T do.

And well, that's it. Take it or leave it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The Bat hunts down and brings criminals to justice, he goes after them, correct?
He doesn't exactly hunt them down, he does detective work, and more than often they come to him by dropping him hints, invitations and even straight up attacking him. If anything, most of the crime he encounters is spur of the moment. "looks what's going on over there" type of events.

The Dark Knight

Batman has sonar technology that gives him a 3D representation of his surroundings - e.g of the whole building he is in.

He also has other new tricks, but I wouldn't want to spoil it for you guys who havent watched it.

Good game.

Originally posted by Placidity
The Dark Knight

Batman has sonar technology that gives him a 3D representation of his surroundings - e.g of the whole building he is in.

He also has other new tricks, but I wouldn't want to spoil it for you guys who havent watched it.

Good game.

Exactly what I brought up, his Bat persona doesn't just stop at his image.

Originally posted by Scythe
I'm sure I've posted several ways Batman would win this. Element of surprise, restraining Swagger, outsmarting Swagger, I'm not a firm believer in "Yeah, Bats would do that, but Swagger WILL do this against him!!!zomg!!" That's your favorite tactic.

If you must rest easy than here's how things might possibly turn out. Batman knows Swagger is in AK, he has Alfred spot him from the Batcave via satellite. Alfred can do this, since it was featured in his fight with Deadshot which is an extension to Batman Begins. Since we're throwing in the novels Swagger was featured in, why not toss in Gotham Knight, since it was a movie, it was more than an hour long for god's sake.

So he has Alfred spot him, thermal detection can be utilized by Alfred as well as sonic waves, since Bale's Batman had the high frequency "bat ears" in Begins.

Keep in mind Batman is not a CHARGE RIGHT AT 'EM kind of man, he has more skill than that. Bat's visors can detect C4 or any other type of explosive, which he can disarm.

I might believe Swagger might get a shot on Bats, maybe not in the face since Batman tries to avoid that. He knows how to handle snipers.

One shot, and that gives away his location, even if he chooses a new location, it become a game of cat and mouse. Once Bats gets close enough, sniper rifles are useless, thus restraints come into play. Batman doesn't kill, this is something Batman DOESN'T do.

And well, that's it. Take it or leave it.Stick to the conditions of the thread, please. Yeah I know, whaa whaa Bats is gimped here, whaa whaa I dont wanna admit that Bat loses, but this is MORE than a fair matchup. Bat can TRY to avoid a face shot all he wants, fact is, Swagger specializes in head shots, whether its with a rifle, machine gun or pistol.

Bat can disarm explosives, sure, but claymores can be activated remotely, or didnt you know that? How is he gonna disarm it if Swagger sees him approaching, waits for the right moment, then BOOM?

If it gets up close and personal, Bat is finished. Google what a H&K G36 is and get back to me. Swagger will NOT miss up close and personal. If anything, he is even MORE deadly with a machine gun than he is sniping.

Cat and mouse? Dude, Watch shooter, I implore you. Cat and Mouse in Swaggers backyard, a game he excels at? Thats a hoot.


Bat can do all the homework on Swagger, but in this matchup Bat loses.

Originally posted by Placidity
The Dark Knight

Batman has sonar technology that gives him a 3D representation of his surroundings - e.g of the whole building he is in.

He also has other new tricks, but I wouldn't want to spoil it for you guys who havent watched it.

Good game. Does he have a gadget that can stop a .50 caliber sniper round? Or a hail of 7.62 mm rounds? Or a claymore?

Thought not. Dead Knight.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Stick to the conditions of the thread, please. Yeah I know, whaa whaa Bats is gimped here, whaa whaa I dont wanna admit that Bat loses, but this is MORE than a fair matchup. Bat can TRY to avoid a face shot all he wants, fact is, Swagger specializes in head shots, whether its with a rifle, machine gun or pistol.

Bat can disarm explosives, sure, but claymores can be activated remotely, or didnt you know that? How is he gonna disarm it if Swagger sees him approaching, waits for the right moment, then BOOM?

If it gets up close and personal, Bat is finished. Google what a H&K G36 is and get back to me. Swagger will NOT miss up close and personal. If anything, he is even MORE deadly with a machine gun than he is sniping.

Cat and mouse? Dude, Watch shooter, I implore you. Cat and Mouse in Swaggers backyard, a game he excels at? Thats a hoot.


Bat can do all the homework on Swagger, but in this matchup Bat loses.

Ummm, okay... I don't know how you wish to prevail on achieving reconsideration by using demanding questions. It's a false logic in my eyes. By this time you must realize that an opinion has been cast and nothing other than high amounts of cash can ever pursuade it differently. At least for me. I recommend getting more formal with other people's opinions.

Dodge.

Batman wins. imo, i've described how....

The way you're saying it Rogue, you would have us thinking that any trained special forces trooper could take Batman. And you know how bullshit that is.

Also, on a side note - Batman fights guys with guns (g36) upclose all the time.

Originally posted by Placidity
The way you're saying it Rogue, you would have us thinking that any trained special forces trooper could take Batman. And you know how bullshit that is.

Also, on a side note - Batman fights guys with guns (g36) upclose all the time.

He's hellbent on Swagger winning and changing the opinions of those who say otherwise, you won't get through to him.

you've been playing far too much call of duty 4

lol. Seems you are right. I did a little search and all the weapons he mentioned are indeed in CoD4. But they are pretty common weapons anyway.

He just watched the movie...

and creepily knows alot about guns and artillary...

G36 is a pretty common weapon. Although most special forces don't use it.

Its funny cause I was just watching Shooter last night. I'm pretty sure Swagger does use a .5 in the end. Don't think any other round could take out a limb with one shot like that.

On another note, that movie stole a few elements from the Bourne movies.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I should probably state that the road only leads so far, that Batman must exit his vehicle and pursue Swagger on foot at a certain point. Also that claymores have been placed at strategic locations throughout the woods, claymores that would shred the Bat if steps into their blast radius.

And why exactly doesn't Batman not just use some other way of getting there.

I'd assume he did.

But I guess, in your scenario, where you made Batman an idiot, Swagger might have a slight chance. In any other, Batman would take it easy.

For your next thread I'd propose this scenario: "Batman is strapped to a bench with no way of escaping. The guy you choose to be matched against him has a desert eagle in his hand pointing at Batman's exposed face. Who would win?"

You have a better chance with a pistol than a sniper against the batman

imo

ermm

Originally posted by Placidity
The way you're saying it Rogue, you would have us thinking that any trained special forces trooper could take Batman. And you know how bullshit that is.

Also, on a side note - Batman fights guys with guns (g36) upclose all the time. Thats the thing though. Bob Lee Swagger is more than just some special forces trainee, he is the elite of the elite, pretty close to Rambo is terms of being a badass, if you read the novels you would know this.

He took out a big ass assault chopper with a rifle, man, that speaks volumes for his skills.

Originally posted by Scythe
He just watched the movie...

and creepily knows alot about guns and artillary... Just because I know what a .50 cal rifle is and what claymores can do?

Originally posted by Bardock42
And why exactly doesn't Batman not just use some other way of getting there.

I'd assume he did.

But I guess, in your scenario, where you made Batman an idiot, Swagger might have a slight chance. In any other, Batman would take it easy.

For your next thread I'd propose this scenario: "Batman is strapped to a bench with no way of escaping. The guy you choose to be matched against him has a desert eagle in his hand pointing at Batman's exposed face. Who would win?" I just used the Batmobile off the top of my head. Bat Jet (or whatever they call it) I suppose?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I just used the Batmobile off the top of my head. Bat Jet (or whatever they call it) I suppose?

Oh, okay, Batman then. Sneaks up on the guy and punches him out flat. Good times.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, okay, Batman then. Sneaks up on the guy and punches him out flat. Good times. Riiiight. Bat negotiates his way past the sniper fire, past the claymores, and sneaks up on him.


Someone has Bat fever.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Riiiight. Bat negotiates his way past the sniper fire, past the claymores, and sneaks up on him.


Someone has Bat fever.

Nah, you just want Batman to lose. He is certainly capable of such stunning feats. Swagger wouldn't stand a chance, in a scenario where Batman can scheme his approach.

RJ, you act as if batman only goes against petty little liquor store robbers and can't manage anything more hardcore...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nah, you just want Batman to lose. He is certainly capable of such stunning feats. Swagger wouldn't stand a chance, in a scenario where Batman can scheme his approach. I am merely trying to point out that the Bat can be beaten by a normal man, something which Batman fans cannot seem to accept.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
RJ, you act as if batman only goes against petty little liquor store robbers and can't manage anything more hardcore... I never said that, when did I say that?

See, this makes me laugh, Batman fans not being able to accept that if the Bat's foe doesn't have super powers and a pair of tights, that they stand no chance against him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I am merely trying to point out that the Bat can be beaten by a normal man, something which Batman fans cannot seem to accept. I can accept that.

Doesn't mean that he would be beaten by Swagger in this scenario (he wouldn't)

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Thats the thing though. Bob Lee Swagger is more than just some special forces trainee, he is the elite of the elite, pretty close to Rambo is terms of being a badass, if you read the novels you would know this.

I don't think novels are movies. You cannot branch out a character's abilities with things that weren't in a movie. It's called the movie versus forum for a reason.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I can accept that.

Doesn't mean that he would be beaten by Swagger in this scenario (he wouldn't) I never knew the Bat could dodge bullets, when did he become Neo like?

Also, you really think Swagger would be prone to being snuck up on?

If the Bat attacks in his Jet, Swagger will merely shoot him out of the air, you have to remember he shot down a heavily armored attack chopper.

Swagger can make head shots from a thousand yards out, leading up to a mile. Up close and personal, whether it's with an assault rifle or pistols, he is even more deadly.

There is a particular part in the novel "Point of Impact" where Swagger takes on a small army of mercs while he is armed only with a bolt action sniper rifle. He takes them all out, and leading up to this battle, he escapes a house armed only with a .45, taking out several heavily armed mercs along the way, all headshots, while on the run.

Thing is, I am betting you have seen Shooter and not read the novels, ALL of the novels, and have only seen the tip of the iceberg when talking about what he is capable of.

Originally posted by Scythe
I don't think novels are movies. You cannot branch out a character's abilities with things that weren't in a movie. It's called the movie versus forum for a reason. Juat because you dont "think" it doesnt mean it's not allowed.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never said that, when did I say that?

See, this makes me laugh, Batman fans not being able to accept that if the Bat's foe doesn't have super powers and a pair of tights, that they stand no chance against him. I don't recall saying you said that.


But you ARE saying for one... You can beat batman yourself


this just makes me laugh

and 2... swagger can beat batman, which he cannot

and your scenarios are just rediculous as well like Bardock stated

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Juat because you dont "think" it doesnt mean it's not allowed.

You think Batman doesn't have novels? That's where fanboys make him insanely great, so you just planted Swagger's doom by 'allowing' novels along with films.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
I don't recall saying you said that.


But you ARE saying for one... You can beat batman yourself


this just makes me laugh

and 2... swagger can beat batman, which he cannot

and your scenarios are just rediculous as well like Bardock stated I would like to think that if I had a full auto assault rifle and knew the Bat was after me I would have a chance, yes. If I defended myself like the people in the movies do, I am toast, durh.

If I were to go toe to toe with him, of course I have no chance, he would make me his Batb1tch.

Originally posted by Scythe
You think Batman doesn't have novels? That's where fanboys make him insanely great, so you just planted Swagger's doom by 'allowing' novels along with films. I allowed Swaggers novels, and I allowed the movie versions of Batman. I did this because everyone knows about Batman, while few know about Swagger.

Besides, if you dont like the conditions of the fight, why waste energy posting and whining about it?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I allowed Swaggers novels, and I allowed the movie versions of Batman. I did this because everyone knows about Batman, while few know about Swagger.

Besides, if you dont like the conditions of the fight, why waste energy posting and whining about it?

Who's whining about anything? Your scenario sucks balls. Batman's a mental patient in your scenerio. You have this ho-hum sniper guy who was in one movie, armed to the teeth, thought of everything, and you have Batman...just down the road... Has to get out of his Batmobile and walk stupidly towards Swagger possibly going: "Potato!!! Rox-Rox!"

And even though we're telling you that Bats can still win in this scenerio you're not willing to accept it.

Look RJ, these Vs. threads are meant to have a scenerio, which you provided, then there needs to have input from posters saying who they think would win. They need to describe how the person they've chosen would win in their opinion and that's it, they post it. I highly doubt you have to go around arguing with everyone that "no, you chose the wrong guy, Bats has to lose"

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never knew the Bat could dodge bullets, when did he become Neo like?

He can't. Swagger just won't get a shot in.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Also, you really think Swagger would be prone to being snuck up on?

By Batman? Yes. Yes absolutely.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If the Bat attacks in his Jet, Swagger will merely shoot him out of the air, you have to remember he shot down a heavily armored attack chopper.

Doubt that would work on any Batplane, but it was just an example, Batman would probably think of something a million times better anyways.


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Swagger can make head shots from a thousand yards out, leading up to a mile. Up close and personal, whether it's with an assault rifle or pistols, he is even more deadly.

He is good, just not nearly as good as Batman.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
There is a particular part in the novel "Point of Impact" where Swagger takes on a small army of mercs while he is armed only with a bolt action sniper rifle. He takes them all out, and leading up to this battle, he escapes a house armed only with a .45, taking out several heavily armed mercs along the way, all headshots, while on the run.

Are we taking non-film examples in now? Are you sure you want to go that road with the Batman?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Thing is, I am betting you have seen Shooter and not read the novels, ALL of the novels, and have only seen the tip of the iceberg when talking about what he is capable of.

True, but if you are going to bring in novels, why leave out Batman's?

Originally posted by Scythe
Who's whining about anything? Your scenario sucks balls. Batman's a mental patient in your scenerio. You have this ho-hum sniper guy who was in one movie, armed to the teeth, thought of everything, and you have Batman...just down the road... Has to get out of his Batmobile and walk stupidly towards Swagger possibly going: "Potato!!! Rox-Rox!"

And even though we're telling you that Bats can still win in this scenerio you're not willing to accept it.

Look RJ, these Vs. threads are meant to have a scenerio, which you provided, then there needs to have input from posters saying who they think would win. They need to describe how the person they've chosen would win in their opinion and that's it, they post it. I highly doubt you have to go around arguing with everyone that "no, you chose the wrong guy, Bats has to lose" I have no problem with accepting that maybe the Bat wins, but when someone assumes he wins because he is the Bat, only for that reason, I dont accept it.

If the Bat is as badass as you make him out to be, he wouldnt just walk towards Swagger, would he? Swagger wouldnt need that anyway, any man who can take out a small army of 125 men can easily give the Bat a good fight, and, possibly, defeat him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I have no problem with accepting that maybe the Bat wins, but when someone assumes he wins because he is the Bat, only for that reason, I dont accept it.

If the Bat is as badass as you make him out to be, he wouldnt just walk towards Swagger, would he? Swagger wouldnt need that anyway, any man who can take out a small army of 125 men can easily give the Bat a good fight, and, possibly, defeat him.

Not the Comic Version.


But yeah, the movie version probably, still Batman would likely win, he is just better.

Originally posted by Bardock42
He can't. Swagger just won't get a shot in.Right, this highly trained killer is gonna sit there with his thumb up his ass as the Bat closes.



You really have no idea what it would take for him to get that close to Swagger, do you?



Sure, now you are going back to the usual "He's Batman!!!" tact.




As a marksman? As a specialist in close quarter firearm combat?



Thread conditions, B. Accept them or move on.



Because I am trying to prove a point here, that the Bat is a man, plain and simple, and, given the right conditions, he can be killed. I like Batman, dont get me wrong, I thought Batman Begins was amazing, but in this scenario, he loses.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Not the Comic Version.


But yeah, the movie version probably, still Batman would likely win, he is just better. So using his skills and gadgets, he has taken out 125 men in one sitting before?

You can't start a thread where one contestant has no way of winning. That seems to me like you're just trying to prove a point, andt that would be borderline spamming.

"Hey guys, I'm fed up with people thinking Batman can do everything, I'm gonna start a thread where he has no chance of winning, it'll be hip and totally not foolish at all."

Tell me RJ, in your opinion, how can Batman win this at all?

If you reply with a: "He can't" I'm gonna laugh so hard because it'll only prove my point.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So using his skills and gadgets, he has taken out 125 men in one sitting before?

He took out the ****ing Hyperclan.

I can't think of him fighting an army at the moment though. Then again, he doesn't use assaults weapons, so he wouldn't be as effective against an army.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=363873&pagenumber=2

Originally posted by Scythe
You can't start a thread where one contestant has no way of winning. That seems to me like you're just trying to prove a point, andt that would be borderline spamming.

"Hey guys, I'm fed up with people thinking Batman can do everything, I'm gonna start a thread where he has no chance of winning, it'll be hip and totally not foolish at all."

Tell me RJ, in your opinion, how can Batman win this at all?

If you reply with a: "He can't" I'm gonna laugh so hard because it'll only prove my point. prove my point. This thread is about Batman versus Bob Lee Swagger, both of them at full strength, both of them with all the tools of their trade.

It has Bob Lee doing what he does best, and the Bat doing what he does best.

Should the scenario be in Gotham, with Bob Lee armed only with a revolver like most of the other idiot villians? Would that meet your approval?

Originally posted by Bardock42
He took out the ****ing Hyperclan.I see, was this in the Batman movies?

Exactly.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
prove my point. This thread is about Batman versus Bob Lee Swagger, both of them at full strength, both of them with all the tools of their trade.

It has Bob Lee doing what he does best, and the Bat doing what he does best.

Should the scenario be in Gotham, with Bob Lee armed only with a revolver like most of the other idiot villians? Would that meet your approval?

No, for this dumb thread to meet my approval it would take place in an equal location that's neither Swagger's liking nor Gotham City. They'd both be even, like, for whatever Swagger can dish out, Bats would have something to counter it. Then it would become a battle of wits, speed and so on. How can you say Batman doing what he does best when he never walks through the front door to confront a criminal.

Originally posted by Scythe
Tell me RJ, in your opinion, how can Batman win this at all?

If you reply with a: "He can't" I'm gonna laugh so hard because it'll only prove my point.

I still wanna hear this though.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I see, was this in the Batman movies?

Exactly.

N-no, you asked me about the comic version

Also, how does that mean that he couldn't easily beat one guy hiding on a hill?

Thats just it, I could care less if it meets your approval.

Swagger is the one on the run, and, as a Sniper, of course he is gonna choose carefully where he fights.

And what you said about the Bat being able to take whatever Swagger can dish out, he can't. He just can't.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Thats just it, I could care less if it meets your approval.

Swagger is the one on the run, and, as a Sniper, of course he is gonna choose carefully where he fights.

And what you said about the Bat being able to take whatever Swagger can dish out, he can't. He just can't.

So, I asked if possible, in your opinion, how could Batman go about to win this, and your answer is he can't? Is this correct?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Thats just it, I could care less if it meets your approval.

Swagger is the one on the run, and, as a Sniper, of course he is gonna choose carefully where he fights.

And what you said about the Bat being able to take whatever Swagger can dish out, he can't. He just can't. He wouldn't have to though. As Swagger couldn't "dish out" everything he has before Batman takes him out.

Originally posted by Scythe
I still wanna hear this though. IMO the Bat is facing a man with nothing to lose, a trained killer in every sense. A man who, while not having all the fancy gadgets and ninja training the Bat posseses, has his own array of weaponry that would enable him to take the Bat down.

Originally posted by Scythe
So, I asked if possible, in your opinion, how could Batman go about to win this, and your answer is he can't? Is this correct?





Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
IMO the Bat is facing a man with nothing to lose, a trained killer in every sense. A man who, while not having all the fancy gadgets and ninja training the Bat posseses, has his own array of weaponry that would enable him to take the Bat down.

Originally posted by Bardock42
He wouldn't have to though. As Swagger couldn't "dish out" everything he has before Batman takes him out. So you are assuming that Swagger is just gonna sit there and watch the whole time? More of the "It's Batman" fanboy BS.

So you're saying he can't win? I'm not too sure, since all you managed to do is explain why you think Swagger is cool. I'm gonna take it as you saying Batman can't win, and enjoy a good laugh, hahahahaha, nice.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you are assuming that Swagger is just gonna sit there and watch the whole time? More of the "It's Batman" fanboy BS.

So, you're assuming that Batman is just gonna sit there and watch the whole time? More of the "Surprise! Swagger" fanboy BS.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you are assuming that Swagger is just gonna sit there and watch the whole time? More of the "It's Batman" fanboy BS.

I doubt he's just gonna sit there. But what's he gonna do? Batman is a stealth expert.

Originally posted by Scythe
So you're saying he can't win? I'm not too sure, since all you managed to do is explain why you think Swagger is cool. I'm gonna take it as you saying Batman can't win, and enjoy a good laugh, hahahahaha, nice. In this scenario, it's highly unlikely the Bat would win.

He can do all the research he wants, but Swagger knows what the Bat is capable of, and he is gonna make the Bat come to him. A sniper has extreme patience, he will wait as long as it takes for the right shot. Wouldn't you, if on the run from the Bat, choose a battleground to your liking?





Originally posted by Scythe
So, you're assuming that Batman is just gonna sit there and watch the whole time? More of the "Surprise! Swagger" fanboy BS. Exactly, see how stupid that sounds? neither are just gonna sit there and watch, both are gonna use every resource to win.

JESUS CHRIST, just call him Batman.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I doubt he's just gonna sit there. But what's he gonna do? Batman is a stealth expert. As is Swagger, and since he is a stealth expert, it is highly unlikely that EITHER of them will be snuck up on.

Lets say the Bat decides to disarm the claymores (which Swagger can detonate any time he chooses)....you think Swagger is gonna wait for him to finish before unleashing hell on him?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
As is Swagger, and since he is a stealth expert, it is highly unlikely that EITHER of them will be snuck up on.

Lets say the Bat decides to disarm the claymores (which Swagger can detonate any time he chooses)....you think Swagger is gonna wait for him to finish before unleashing hell on him?

Look, in a scenario this laid out in favour of the person you want to win, I ask you, why, why the hell, should Batman even approach knowing of all those possibilities, and how do you think he would? Obviously the, "Driving up the only road with the batmobile, getting out and walking the last few yards in perfect view of a trained sniper" is not what he's going to do, so what is? And remember, it is Batman, one of the smartest and most skilled people in the DC universe.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Look, in a scenario this laid out in favour of the person you want to win, I ask you, why, why the hell, should Batman even approach knowing of all those possibilities, and how do you think he would? Obviously the, "Driving up the only road with the batmobile, getting out and walking the last few yards in perfect view of a trained sniper" is not what he's going to do, so what is? And remember, it is Batman, one of the smartest and most skilled people in the DC universe. I'll concede that you got a point there. How would the Bat approcah then?

Well, in the comics he would have satellite intel on where Bob and he'll probably know about his background since he is a detective. Given his background, its not hard to guess Bob would try to snipe Bats. Batman would probably approach by plane and insert on the roof top of the structure Bob is in.

Realisticly, Bob would hear the plane and he would be ready, but he's already lost his advantage of long distance sniping. Bats would then cut the power (somehow) then get the drop on Bob.

In the movie though, Bat's hasn't shown that he has air insertion capabilities. I'm guessing that he would go in by Batmobile, which would have tech to detect explosives/ mines/what have you. His Batmobile can also go invisible, so Bob wouldn't even see him coming. Again, he might hear him when he drives closer to his position. But at that point, everything is in Batman's favour.

Originally posted by Placidity
Well, in the comics he would have satellite intel on where Bob and he'll probably know about his background since he is a detective. Given his background, its not hard to guess Bob would try to snipe Bats. Batman would probably approach by plane and insert on the roof top of the structure Bob is in.

Realisticly, Bob would hear the plane and he would be ready, but he's already lost his advantage of long distance sniping. Bats would then cut the power (somehow) then get the drop on Bob.

In the movie though, Bat's hasn't shown that he has air insertion capabilities. I'm guessing that he would go in by Batmobile, which would have tech to detect explosives/ mines/what have you. His Batmobile can also go invisible, so Bob wouldn't even see him coming. Again, he might hear him when he drives closer to his position. But at that point, everything is in Batman's favour. Swagger is an expert at counter Intel, so he will no doubt know everything the Bat will throw at him, just as the Bat will know what to expect of Swagger. One thing I am not familiar with, though, is how durable the Batmobile is, if it can stand up to a few claymore blasts.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Swagger is an expert at counter Intel

What...when?

No one can gather info on the Batman, other than info he wants you to have. His info is top secret and should anyone try to track any info one him it's dycripted to not come up with any results, so how can Swagger know everything Batman can do?

Originally posted by Placidity
What...when? It's in the books and the movies.

Originally posted by Scythe
No one can gather info on the Batman, other than info he wants you to have. His info is top secret and should anyone try to track any info one him it's dycripted to not come up with any results, so how can Swagger know everything Batman can do? Why do you suppose most criminals shit themselves at the mere mention of the Bat?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Why do you suppose most criminals shit themselves at the mere mention of the Bat?

Because Batman not only beats the living hell out of his criminals till they're within an inch of their life, he also traumatizes his victims. He scares them so much they shit himself. Seriously. He's wrong rubber masks to become your best friend while you have no clue your actual best friend is knocked out somewhere else. He knows his enemies by getting up close and personal, the he even knows how to throw his voice to confuse you and he can be beyond resourceful. This is why criminals are so afraid of Batman.

Originally posted by Scythe
Because Batman not only beats the living hell out of his criminals till they're within an inch of their life, he also traumatizes his victims. He scares them so much they shit himself. Seriously. He's wrong rubber masks to become your best friend while you have no clue your actual best friend is knocked out somewhere else. He knows his enemies by getting up close and personal, the he even knows how to throw his voice to confuse you and he can be beyond resourceful. This is why criminals are so afraid of Batman. So would you say his exploits border on being legendary?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So would you say his exploits border on being legendary?

There's a reason why he's called the Legendary Dark Knight dude.

Originally posted by Scythe
There's a reason why he's called the Legendary Dark Knight dude. So since his exploits are legendary, I am sure the weapons he used during said exploits are documented somewhere? The methods he used to achieve his goals?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So since his exploits are legendary, I am sure the weapons he used during said exploits are documented somewhere? The methods he used to achieve his goals?

I don't think hands and legs as well as his cape and his usual Batarangs that EVERYONE knows he has can be documented. How do you document something that surprises you and sends a wave of fear through the crime community. They talk about Batman but they usually talk about how horrific their experience was. Seriously, even the JLA aren't allowed to know what he's up to, he keeps his secrets even from them.

Originally posted by Scythe
I don't think hands and legs as well as his cape and his usual Batarangs that EVERYONE knows he has can be documented. How do you document something that surprises you and sends a wave of fear through the crime community. They talk about Batman but they usually talk about how horrific their experience was. Seriously, even the JLA aren't allowed to know what he's up to, he keeps his secrets even from them. OK, but what can the Bat throw at Swagger in this scenario that Swagger wouldn't be ready for?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, but what can the Bat throw at Swagger in this scenario that Swagger wouldn't be ready for?

Besides everything? The only thing Swagger might see coming are his Batarangs. Other than that he keeps everything legit. Batman may not use lethal guns, but he still uses guns. Tranq. guns, rubber bullets, and so on.

Originally posted by Scythe
Besides everything? The only thing Swagger might see coming are his Batarangs. Other than that he keeps everything legit. Batman may not use lethal guns, but he still uses guns. Tranq. guns, rubber bullets, and so on. And you think Swagger will fall victim to these? face it, Swagger will know all the Bat has to offer. What training does the Bat have in counter intel? None.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And you think Swagger will fall victim to these? face it, Swagger will know all the Bat has to offer. What training does the Bat have in counter intel? None.

Face it, Swagger is just a ho-hum sniper who has alot of training. Seriously, not a single person other than you has given this fight to Swagger, I think that's highly sending a message isn't it? Regardless, all you're doing is spewing nothingness. You're listing ways Swagger would win, we counter them, and you say something stupid like: "Well he has an answer to that!" The fact that you've included books, should very much seal the deal in Batman's favor, however all this is just in my opinion, you have all the right to your respected opinion, but at this point you seem like a religious-nut trying to convert others.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's in the books and the movies.

Hmm... could you tell me where in the movie?

BTW, the Batmobile could probably only take two claymore blasts. I think you asked about that somewhere earlier.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And you think Swagger will fall victim to these? face it, Swagger will know all the Bat has to offer. What training does the Bat have in counter intel? None. W-why would Swagger know that? Does he have a private line to God in your scenario?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So would you say his exploits border on being legendary?

If you have to ask if Batman or his exploits are considered legendary, then maybe it's best to do a bit more research on the people you pit against one another.

Why don't we all stop proving why Batman would win, since it's obvious, and let RJ provide us with reasons that this random would beat Batman.

As for knowing everything Batman has to offer, why would he. and why would it even matter? Batman's enemies know more about him than Swagger, he still wins.

-AC

Yer, considering he beat Ducard/ Ra's al Ghul who knows everything there is to know about him.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why don't we all stop proving why Batman would win, since it's obvious, and let RJ provide us with reasons that this random would beat Batman.

-AC

I've asked him for that, didn't come through. I also asked him how Batman could win this in his opinion, he provided nothing.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you have to ask if Batman or his exploits are considered legendary, then maybe it's best to do a bit more research on the people you pit against one another.

Why don't we all stop proving why Batman would win, since it's obvious, and let RJ provide us with reasons that this random would beat Batman.

As for knowing everything Batman has to offer, why would he. and why would it even matter? Batman's enemies know more about him than Swagger, he still wins.

-AC Me asking if the Bat's exploits are legendary was a rhetorical question.

Before I dive in and explain why IMO Swagger would win, how much do you know about Swagger? Have you seen Shooter? Have you read Point of Impact, Time to hunt, or Black light?

This is not a dodge, I just want to know how detailed I need to be.

Originally posted by Placidity
Hmm... could you tell me where in the movie?

BTW, the Batmobile could probably only take two claymore blasts. I think you asked about that somewhere earlier. In the beginning, when Danny Glover's character asks him to do the job, remember when Swagger takes the pic of the "engine" of their SUV?

They even said it, that he didnt give a shit about the engine, that he was gonna run the plates. At that point Danny Glovers character says "He is an expert at counter intel."

Originally posted by Placidity
Hmm... could you tell me where in the movie?

BTW, the Batmobile could probably only take two claymore blasts. I think you asked about that somewhere earlier. I did, and thanks for answering. What about the Bat's armor? What kind of damage can it take before giving way?

Why don't you stop asking about Batman, who you should know enough about before starting these threads, and explain to us all why Swagger would win, since you're the only one who thinks so.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Me asking if the Bat's exploits are legendary was a rhetorical question.

Before I dive in and explain why IMO Swagger would win, how much do you know about Swagger? Have you seen Shooter? Have you read Point of Impact, Time to hunt, or Black light?

This is not a dodge, I just want to know how detailed I need to be.

Yes, I know all I need to regarding the subject. Obviously, or I wouldn't be here.

-AC

Forgot to edit this in:

RJ, people don't actually need to have read the books. This is a movie Vs forum. We're dealing with Shooter and nothing more.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why don't you stop asking about Batman, who you should know enough about before starting these threads, and explain to us all why Swagger would win, since you're the only one who thinks so.



Yes, I know all I need to regarding the subject. Obviously, or I wouldn't be here.

-AC So why do I think Swagger would win?


Because he is an expert at Sniping, hand to hand combat, close quarter small arms combat, explosives, counter intel, and is an all around badass, a trained killer. He took on an army of 125 men while armed with a bolt action rifle, FFS, and killed them all.

In this scenario, he is totally in his element, using all the tools of his trade, armed with a .50 cal rifle. The Bat has to come to him.

Even if the Bat avoids the sniper fire (which he wouldn't, Swagger would take his head off the moment he steps out of the Batmobile or Jet or whatever he uses), he still has to deal with the strategically placed claymores, and, IF he gets past those, he has to deal with Swagger having a full auto assault rifle, grenades and his sidearms.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Forgot to edit this in:

RJ, people don't actually need to have read the books. This is a movie Vs forum. We're dealing with Shooter and nothing more.

-AC Not even gonna argue that wth you, man. If I were to say one can argue using the comic Bat, you wouldnt think twice about it.

The movie Swagger is an extension of the book Swagger, therefore he is the same person.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So why do I think Swagger would win?


Because he is an expert at Sniping, hand to hand combat, close quarter small arms combat, explosives, counter intel, and is an all around badass, a trained killer. He took on an army of 125 men while armed with a bolt action rifle, FFS, and killed them all.

In this scenario, he is totally in his element, using all the tools of his trade, armed with a .50 cal rifle. The Bat has to come to him.

Even if the Bat avoids the sniper fire (which he wouldn't, Swagger would take his head off the moment he steps out of the Batmobile or Jet or whatever he uses), he still has to deal with the strategically placed claymores, and, IF he gets past those, he has to deal with Swagger having a full auto assault rifle, grenades and his sidearms.

Batman is always in his element. He's rarely ever out of it, if it was that easy to kill him he'd be dead.

Also, if you believe it's that easy, why make the thread? You're obviously the only one. If you are so certain of the outcome in this fight, why even make the thread? It obviously doesn't matter what any of us say.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Not even gonna argue that wth you, man. If I were to say one can argue using the comic Bat, you wouldnt think twice about it.

The movie Swagger is an extension of the book Swagger, therefore he is the same person.

I wouldn't, because that's the comic Batman, this is a movie Vs forum.

You're wrong, and you've been told in the other thread that book versions aren't welcome here, so stick to Shooter alone.

It's Shooter and NOTHING else. Batman movies and NOTHING else. I've PMed Impediment, so he can come here and confirm that it's only movies like he did in the other thread.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Batman is always in his element. He's rarely ever out of it, if it was that easy to kill him he'd be dead.

Also, if you believe it's that easy, why make the thread? You're obviously the only one. If you are so certain of the outcome in this fight, why even make the thread? It obviously doesn't matter what any of us say.Why make the thread? To discuss why I think Swagger would win, and read why others think the Bat would win.



The thread is still about movie AND book Swagger, but, I will go ahead and humor you for a page or two. Lets talk MOVIE Batman versus movie Swagger.

You go first.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Why make the thread? To discuss why I think Swagger would win, and read why others think the Bat would win.

Why, though? Nobody cares why you think Swagger would win, cos it's ridiculous, and obviously you don't agree with anyone who disagrees on the subject, so what's the point?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The thread is still about movie AND book Swagger, but, I will go ahead and humor you for a page or two. Lets talk MOVIE Batman versus movie Swagger.

You go first.

You don't get to decide it's ok to defy forum criteria. This thread is about movie Swagger and movie Batman, cos it's a movie forum. I thought you'd have learned that the last time you tried to involve a book character.

Movie Batman, since you've so biasedly rigged it for Swagger (And everyone here still thinks you're mental for speaking such lunacy), just drives up to him in the Batmobile and runs him over.

The Batmobile is bulletproof, bombproof, you name it. That or he can get close enough that sniping isn't an option, drive past the claymores, then beat him hand-to-hand, which he obviously would do, since he has trained with far superior people.

There, if that's how Vs fights now go around here, let's just do it that way.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


Why, though? Nobody cares why you think Swagger would win, cos it's ridiculous, and obviously you don't agree with anyone who disagrees on the subject, so what's the point?Tell me, who has MOVIE Batman faced? The Joker? Two face? The Riddler? Ahnuld's pathetic excuse for a villian? Hell, if it wasn't for Robin, the Bat would have died at the hands of Two face.



You've never been to Arkansas, have you? You really have no idea what the terrain is like, do you? The Bat wouldn't be able to "drive right up to him", the Batmobile is designed for an urban scenario, unless I totally missed something in the MOVIES.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Tell me, who has MOVIE Batman faced? The Joker? Two face? The Riddler? Ahnuld's pathetic excuse for a villian? Hell, if it wasn't for Robin, the Bat would have died at the hands of Two face.

The Joker alone is more formidable than Mark Wahlberg's Swagger.

Then there's Al Ghul and the League of Shadows. He's beaten them all.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You've never been to Arkansas, have you? You really have no idea what the terrain is like, do you? The Bat wouldn't be able to "drive right up to him", the Batmobile is designed for an urban scenario, unless I totally missed something in the MOVIES.

Thank the spirits, no, never been. Doesn't matter, though.

Have you seen Batman Begins? The Batmobile copes with any terrain possible.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The Joker alone is more formidable than Mark Wahlberg's Swagger.

Then there's Al Ghul and the League of Shadows. He's beaten them all.Al G wasn't armed to the teeth as Swagger is, he went toe to toe with the Bat, like an idiot, and got served.



The Batmobile dealt with an urban scenario only, driving through a heavily dense forest is totally different. Besides, what's to keep Swagger from shooting out the tires? And yes, with a .50 cal rifle this is entirely feasible. If Swagger can take out a heavily armed attack chopper, the Batmobile would be like dealing with an annoying insect.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Al G wasn't armed to the teeth as Swagger is, he went toe to toe with the Bat, like an idiot, and got served.

Yeah, and so would Swagger. See where this goes? The only thing he has going for him is sniping, and if they're in a forest, Batman isn't some terrorist that's going to be easy to hit. To that end, he could avoid the claymores by going through trees, and he more than likely has something to detect them, because he's not stupid enough to assume Swagger wouldn't have set up traps.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The Batmobile dealt with an urban scenario only, driving through a heavily dense forest is totally different. Besides, what's to keep Swagger from shooting out the tires? And yes, with a .50 cal rifle this is entirely feasible. If Swagger can take out a heavily armed attack chopper, the Batmobile would be like dealing with an annoying insect.

The Batmobile is like an agile, super-armed tank, it's not a Ford pick up.

How can you reasonably say it only dealt with an urban environment? It was driving over rooftops, through a cave etc. It's not like it was driving along a bumpy road and having trouble.

How has Mark Wahlberg gone from being someone who is really good with guns, to Robocop and The Terminator's love child? That's what I'm curious about.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, and so would Swagger. See where this goes? The only thing he has going for him is sniping, and if they're in a forest, Batman isn't some terrorist that's going to be easy to hit. To that end, he could avoid the claymores by going through trees, and he more than likely has something to detect them, because he's not stupid enough to assume Swagger wouldn't have set up traps.Going through the trees, I see. Lemme ask, if you know enough about Swagger as you say you do, then you know Swagger would have no problem sniping the Bat as he "goes through the trees." A well placed round from his .50 cal sniper rifle, which he is very unlikely to miss with, and the Bat is done.

Swagger can make head shots from a mile out, hitting a moving target while it is much closer than that would be no problem for him.

A .50 cal sniper rifle strikes from a mile out with the velocity of a .44 magnum at point blank range, you telling me the Bat is gonna shrug that off?



The Batmobile is badass, I never said it wasn't, but a blast from a claymore would certainly do a bit of damage, not to mention if Swagger shoots out the tires, it's mobility will be severely hindered.

I never claimed Swagger was the love product of two cybernetic organisms, when did I say that?

Tell me, how well would the Bat's armor hold up to a .50 cal sniper round? Or a barrage of automatic gunfire? What you cant seem to realize is that Swagger does NOT miss.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Going through the trees, I see. Lemme ask, if you know enough about Swagger as you say you do, then you know Swagger would have no problem sniping the Bat as he "goes through the trees." A well placed round from his .50 cal sniper rifle, which he is very unlikely to miss with, and the Bat is done.

I saw the movie, and I've never seen him snipe anybody that would give him as much a problem as Batman. So your counter is; "Nah, see, he'd hit him.". My whole point was that this is Batman we're talking about, not some random guy running through a forest. You're placing too much faith in his ability. This man takes our terrorists, Batman is a step above that.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Swagger can make head shots from a mile out, hitting a moving target while it is much closer than that would be no problem for him.

Moving in the sense that his target may be in a car, or whatever, unaware that he is aiming at them. If you feel Batman is as easy to hit, you don't know Batman.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
A .50 cal sniper rifle strikes from a mile out with the velocity of a .44 magnum at point blank range, you telling me the Bat is gonna shrug that off?

What's all this "The Bat" malarkey?

Anyway, no, I'm not. I'm telling you he wouldn't hit him, that's my opinion.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The Batmobile is badass, I never said it wasn't, but a blast from a claymore would certainly do a bit of damage, not to mention if Swagger shoots out the tires, it's mobility will be severely hindered.

No, you just said it wasn't able to cope with terrain in Arkansas, which is ridiculous. This Batmobile is made and manufactured by the highest level of militant technology, they have things in their possession that have never even gone into production because they're so advanced. Do you believe they will have done all that and then said "Ok mate, slap some Pirrellis on that badman and we're good to go."? No, I doubt that they've overlooked the fact that people will try to shoot the tires, but that's speculation. I'm not prepared to just agree he could shoot them out, for good reason, but I'm not in possession of any proof that he couldn't, and neither are you on your side of things.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never claimed Swagger was the love product of two cybernetic organisms, when did I say that?

If you didn't notice that I was making a joke about how you've seemingly elevated the guy to levels he's not at, then I will have to severely take down my humour a few notches when speaking to you.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Tell me, how well would the Bat's armor hold up to a .50 cal sniper round? Or a barrage of automatic gunfire? What you cant seem to realize is that Swagger does NOT miss.

He does not miss against terrorists, Batman's a bit different, RJ.

Like I said, though. Pointless thread, then. You obviously believe that barring Batman being in cover, Swagger would implicitly win with a one shot kill, if he doesn't ever miss. So why even ask who'd win? You know who you think would win, and you know you don't care what we think, since none of us can convince you otherwise.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I saw the movie, and I've never seen him snipe anybody that would give him as much a problem as Batman. So your counter is; "Nah, see, he'd hit him.". My whole point was that this is Batman we're talking about, not some random guy running through a forest. You're placing too much faith in his ability. This man takes our terrorists, Batman is a step above that. Someone who can make head shots from a mile out has no need for my faith in their abilities, the fact that they can make such a miraculous shot speaks volumes for their skills.


With Bob Lee's incredible marksmanship, yes, the Bat is essentially just another guy running through the woods.


I never said he was an easy hit, not to an average man he isn't, but Swagger is far from an ordinary man.



It's slang for Batman, I am not the only one here who calls him the Bat.

So Swagger, despite his incredible aim, will miss with his sniper rifle, with his G36, and with his .45's? All the while Batman is avoiding the claymores Swagger has placed around him? When did Batman go from being a badass to being a God?



So you have no proof that the Batmobiles tires can't be shot out? With such a high powered weapon? Thought not.



Yes, and I was joking right back at you, do try and read between the lines.



No doubt, but you seem to think Swagger has no chance whatsoever of hitting Batman at all, even with an assault rifle.

Not in this matchup, no, I cant be convinced Batman could win.

RJ, if I started a thread, stating Batman Vs. Swagger and include comics Batman against Shooter Swagger only (cuz I can so do that) and the fight had to take place in a narrow hole with a few trenches at the bottom where Batman lays in wait for Swagger to rope down carrying only a sniper rifle since he's good with that and maybe a knife, honestly who would win there? If I created such a thread, it would be considered spam don't ya think? What's that sayin' so far?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Anyway, no, I'm not. I'm telling you he wouldn't hit him, that's my opinion.

-AC

He doesn't respect that.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Someone who can make head shots from a mile out has no need for my faith in their abilities, the fact that they can make such a miraculous shot speaks volumes for their skills.


With Bob Lee's incredible marksmanship, yes, the Bat is essentially just another guy running through the woods.

He's not, he's Batman. Batman isn't just another guy. If anything, Swagger is just another sniper to Batman.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never said he was an easy hit, not to an average man he isn't, but Swagger is far from an ordinary man.

So...you are saying it's an easy hit then? That's what I just said. You just attempted to dodge and then counter yourself, quite remarkable.

"You're saying it'd be an easy hit for Swagger, and implicitly, a one hit kill. So what's the point?", "I'm not saying it'd be an easy hit...not for a normal man, but Swagger isn't normal.". So, yes, what I said was right. You're saying Swagger would beat Batman easily with a one hit kill.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's slang for Batman, I am not the only one here who calls him the Bat.

I know, it just seems a bit too forced.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So Swagger, despite his incredible aim, will miss with his sniper rifle, with his G36, and with his .45's? All the while Batman is avoiding the claymores Swagger has placed around him? When did Batman go from being a badass to being a God?

He didn't go FROM anything TO anything. There are people who have seen both characters movies and people who have seen them and not learned enough about the participants (Like you).

I never said he'd "miss" in the sense that he's a shit shot, I said he'd miss in the sense that Batman isn't an easy target. Swagger is one man, he's not a gundam. He can't use every gun at once. Batman, in a forest, could quite easily dodge his sniper abilities, or avoid them I should say. So Swagger would have to adapt to something less specific, and then Batman would beat him up and say "You're not Jason Bourne, you idiot.".

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you have no proof that the Batmobiles tires can't be shot out? With such a high powered weapon? Thought not.

Do you have proof they can? That's what I said. Neither of us has proof, but considering who made the Batmobile and the level of tech available, I'm not going to just assume they've got the tires that my dad uses on there.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, and I was joking right back at you, do try and read between the lines.

You clearly weren't. I read the actual lines, try it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No doubt, but you seem to think Swagger has no chance whatsoever of hitting Batman at all, even with an assault rifle.

I do? Never said that no chance AT ALL. Just that the chances of him not hitting him grossly outweigh the opposite, and that's why I don't think he would. I just don't think he has a good chance of winning this fight at all.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Not in this matchup, no, I cant be convinced Batman could win.

Then the thread is more or less finished isn't it? You knew you could never be convinced, and you don't care what we have to say (And vice versa), so what was the point of the thread? You obviously never believed there could be any other outcome than the one you thought of.

Might as well PM to get the thread closed. Never mind, I'll do it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He's not, he's Batman. Batman isn't just another guy. If anything, Swagger is just another sniper to Batman.Sure, just another sniper who can make mile long head shots, and can take on wave after wave of baddies. Watch the movie again, watch after he escapes the house after talking to the crippled Russian. This is a testemonial to his skills being far advanced that just some idiot sniper.



I'd say that to the average sniper it is a very difficult shot, but to Bob Lee it's as easy as breathing.
.



Whats not to know about Batman? I have seen all the movies several times (not the Dark Knight yet) He is a badass ninja who wears armor, has cool gadgets, drives a cool car, who hunts down bad guys and brings them to justice.

So if Batman "dodged" his sniper fire, and Swagger unleashes a barrage of G36 fire at Batman, all the while Batman is disarming/avoiding explosives, Batman still gets close enough for hand to hand? Seems YOU are the one placing too much faith in someones abilities now.



....They are tires man, made of rubber......
.



Fair enough.



I didnt know I could never be convinced, I mean that I haven't been convinced YET.

Originally posted by Placidity


In the movie though, Bat's hasn't shown that he has air insertion capabilities. I'm guessing that he would go in by Batmobile, which would have tech to detect explosives/ mines/what have you. His Batmobile can also go invisible, so Bob wouldn't even see him coming. Again, he might hear him when he drives closer to his position. But at that point, everything is in Batman's favour.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sure, just another sniper who can make mile long head shots, and can take on wave after wave of baddies. Watch the movie again, watch after he escapes the house after talking to the crippled Russian. This is a testemonial to his skills being far advanced that just some idiot sniper.

You didn't understand the context of my previous quote, did you? No.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I'd say that to the average sniper it is a very difficult shot, but to Bob Lee it's as easy as breathing.

This is what I mean about you being genuinely stupid sometimes. I tell you that you are suggesting and implying that he'd beat Batman with a one hit kill, since you've said it would be easy. You then reply saying "I never said it'd be an easy shot...for a normal man, but Swagger isn't normal.". Why didn't you just say "Yes, that's what I believe."? Why go in a circle because you just don't want to agree with me?

My claim: You are saying it'd be an easy shot (For Swagger, obviously, since we're discussing him).
You: No, not for a normal man, but for Swagger.
Me: So...yes, then? You are agreeing that my summation is correct?
You: Not for an average sniper, but for Swagger.

What's the point of all that? We're talking about Swagger, "Yes" would have sufficed, RJ.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Whats not to know about Batman? I have seen all the movies several times (not the Dark Knight yet) He is a badass ninja who wears armor, has cool gadgets, drives a cool car, who hunts down bad guys and brings them to justice.

Batman is a ninja? You must have gone into the wrong movie. Trained as one, maybe.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So if Batman "dodged" his sniper fire, and Swagger unleashes a barrage of G36 fire at Batman, all the while Batman is disarming/avoiding explosives, Batman still gets close enough for hand to hand? Seems YOU are the one placing too much faith in someones abilities now.

I'm not, you're just interpreting what I say into very specific, ridiculous ways. I am not suggesting he'd sit there disarming bombs while taking a machine gun to the chest, am I? Who ever said anything about disarming anything? I said avoid. He can't use a sniper rifle if Batman gets close.

So then you say "He has an assault rifle.", so? So have the people he has fought in movies. "But they aren't Swagger!", again, so? Sniping is a special ability, using a machine gun isn't. His accuracy as a sniper wouldn't make a bit of difference with a machine gun. People with machine guns have been defeated by Batman before, Swagger is no different. So this comes down to you placing faith in his ability to kill Batman with one shot from a sniper rifle, in a forest. I don't think I need to go into how ridiculous that is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
....They are tires man, made of rubber.....

Presidential cars have runflats, you can get up to 500 miles on them even if they've been ruptured. You think Wayne Industries hasn't taken such things into account?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I didnt know I could never be convinced, I mean that I haven't been convinced YET.

You said;

"I CAN'T be convinced Batman would win.". To me that says; "I can't be convinced Batman would win.". Not "I haven't been, yet.".

So there's no point to the thread, is there? I suggest you start saying what you mean. Not what you...don't mean, or just stop weaselling.

-AC

Bobby hasn't taken any impressive shots in the movie that would help him beat Bats anyway IMO.

At the start, he takes out a few soldiers while they were moving in a truck. The thing is that they weren't aware of a sniper present. Batman would know.

From such a far distance, the bullet would take perhaps over a second to travel to its target. So, in a scenario which has its target moving, a sniper would have to shoot ahead of the target, to where he predicts the target would be in the next moment. Running around in an unpredictable manner (random zig zags) is one way of avoiding being hit.

Every other shot he has made in the film has been on mostly stationary targets, which Batman would not be.

Anyway, like I said earlier. Batman would be in his invisible batmobile probably with landmine detection tech, which renders both his claymores and sniper shots a non-factor. Not that he would even see him coming.

Originally posted by Placidity
Bobby hasn't taken any impressive shots in the movie that would help him beat Bats anyway IMO.

At the start, he takes out a few soldiers while they were moving in a truck. The thing is that they weren't aware of a sniper present. Batman would know.

From such a far distance, the bullet would take perhaps over a second to travel to its target. So, in a scenario which has its target moving, a sniper would have to shoot ahead of the target, to where he predicts the target would be in the next moment. Running around in an unpredictable manner (random zig zags) is one way of avoiding being hit.

Every other shot he has made in the film has been on mostly stationary targets, which Batman would not be.

Anyway, like I said earlier. Batman would be in his invisible batmobile probably with landmine detection tech, which renders both his claymores and sniper shots a non-factor. Not that he would even see him coming.

Not to mention the fact that sound travels fast, Batman could hear the shot ring out and his reflexes would tell him to do a simple command. Somethng as simple as ducking ya know? To a normal man, the shot of a bullet firing would mean they should duck, they'd probably still get hit, since average reflexes probably won't be enough, but Batman's reflexes are on a different level.

Originally posted by Scythe
Not to mention the fact that sound travels fast, Batman could hear the shot ring out and his reflexes would tell him to do a simple command. Somethng as simple as ducking ya know? To a normal man, the shot of a bullet firing would mean they should duck, they'd probably still get hit, since average reflexes probably won't be enough, but Batman's reflexes are on a different level.

Actually, I believe most (probably all) .50 rounds travel at supersonic speeds. So if you were relying on hearing, you would get shot before the sound waves reached you.

But, given this is done at night, muzzle flash would alert any observant target to shots being fired aswell as give away the position of the sniper.

Originally posted by Placidity
Actually, I believe most (probably all) .50 rounds travel at supersonic speeds. So if you were relying on hearing, you would get shot before the sound waves reached you.

But, given this is done at night, muzzle flash would alert any observant target to shots being fired aswell as give away the position of the sniper.

Oh no, I meant for average firearms, not the sniper rifles, the sniper rifles can be easily dealt with due to him being in a freakin' forest setting, haha.

Originally posted by Placidity
Bobby hasn't taken any impressive shots in the movie that would help him beat Bats anyway IMO.

At the start, he takes out a few soldiers while they were moving in a truck. The thing is that they weren't aware of a sniper present. Batman would know.

From such a far distance, the bullet would take perhaps over a second to travel to its target. So, in a scenario which has its target moving, a sniper would have to shoot ahead of the target, to where he predicts the target would be in the next moment. Running around in an unpredictable manner (random zig zags) is one way of avoiding being hit.

Every other shot he has made in the film has been on mostly stationary targets, which Batman would not be.

Anyway, like I said earlier. Batman would be in his invisible batmobile probably with landmine detection tech, which renders both his claymores and sniper shots a non-factor. Not that he would even see him coming. Actually, from a mile out, it is stated that there is a six to seven second flight time, and that even the spin of the earth comes into play. For Bob Lee to know this means he can adjust to it, that he can make a shot like that with ease.....not to mention he actually DOES it in the movies.

The Bat can zig zag all he wants, eventually one of Swagger's shots will find it's mark. And if for some reason Swagger misses, he has his G36 to fall back on, and I'd like to see the Bat dodge a hail of rapid fire lead from such a marksman as Bob Lee. Not gonna happen.

So the Batmobile had explosive detectors, so what? Bob Lee will be able to detonate the claymores when he sees fit, it's not like he is gonna leave an open spot for the Bat to drive through. It's not like he will say "You know, I am gonna leave this spot open just for the hell of it."

Hahahahahaha, the sheer lunacy of this thread makes me laugh so hard.

I said his Batmobile is invisible. Bobby won't even know when he is coming.

You can't shoot a target (from a far distance) if you can't predict where he'd be in the next moment.

And theres no way Bobby can make a mile shot on a randomly moving target.

Batman is also wearing armour that will resist 5.56mm from the G36.

Originally posted by Scythe
the sniper rifles can be easily dealt with due to him being in a freakin' forest setting, haha.

True that...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's not like he will say "You know, I am gonna leave this spot open just for the hell of it."

But somehow Batman is gonna effectively be so easy to fight that it's a one shot kill?

Yeah, pointless thread. Just leave the threadmaking to others, man.

-AC

Originally posted by Placidity
True that...

It's amazing how given the event and location, RJ seems to be the only one going for poor ole Swagger.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You didn't understand the context of my previous quote, did you? No.You said Bob Lee is just "another sniper" to the Bat.



I suggested that it is unlikely the Bat would evade his sniper fire, and that, if he were lucky enough to do so, that he would be cut to ribbons by the claymores and Bob Lees G36, not to mention his sidearms. You seem to think the Bat can do it all, when he actually cannot.

You want it in plain english? To an average sniper, Batman is a difficult, almost impossible shot. To Bob Lee, nailing Batman with a sniper rifle would be far less of a chore. Not a certain thing, but, unless Batman is lucky as hell, Bob Lee should be able to end this with a well placed head shot.



You take what I say too literally, you know damn well thats what I meant, "Trained in the art of Ninja."



Yes, this is where Bob Lee's sniper training takes over. He places the claymores at strategic locations, knowing Batman will have the technology to avoid them, right? Makes all the sense in the world that he will make Batman take a certain route to get to him, doesn't it?

And so what if others have had assault rifles using them on Batman? Who? Someone with Swaggers training? Someone who is as deadly as he is? Someone with his marksmanship skills?



Funny how they never mention that in the MOVIE.



I meant, and you KNOW I meant that I haven't been convinced yet, I already told you this.

Well, everyone should be allowed their opinion... however nonsensical it may seem to others.

Indeed, I have mine on this subject, and until I am convinced otherwise, it will remain the same.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Indeed, I have mine on this subject, and until I am convinced otherwise, it will remain the same.

Why would anyone try to convince anyone to change it? Do you not know how these Vs. threads work? We're suppose to describe how our victor would win, not convince everyone that one's choice is correct over others.

Although after awhile, it does get monotonous

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You said Bob Lee is just "another sniper" to the Bat.

He might as well be, that's how outclassed he is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I suggested that it is unlikely the Bat would evade his sniper fire, and that, if he were lucky enough to do so, that he would be cut to ribbons by the claymores and Bob Lees G36, not to mention his sidearms. You seem to think the Bat can do it all, when he actually cannot.

He would beat him, we've all given reasons why we believe so. It's not coincidence that you are the only person who seems to think that he could kill Batman, much less do it in one shot.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You want it in plain english? To an average sniper, Batman is a difficult, almost impossible shot. To Bob Lee, nailing Batman with a sniper rifle would be far less of a chore. Not a certain thing, but, unless Batman is lucky as hell, Bob Lee should be able to end this with a well placed head shot.

Oh my goodness.

Yes, that's what I've been saying, are you that dense or are you just trying to weasel? I proposed that your argument was that it was an easy shot for Swagger, you replied "Not an easy shot...for a normal man, but for Swagger.", who the hell mentioned a normal man? Why say "I never said it was an easy shot."? You did.

I'll run it by you again:

Me: You're saying it'd be an easy shot for Swagger, therefore a one hit kill.
You: I never said it was an easy shot (Disagreeing with me), for a normal man (Who brought the normal man into it?), but for Swagger isn't normal (So you imply that yes, it would be an easy shot, which was my initial summation of your argument, which you then disagreed and agreed with).

So it's either an easy shot for Swagger or it's not. You've said it is, you've said it isn't. We're not talking about a normal man, would Batman be an easy shot for Swagger or not? Because with that rifle, it'd be a one hit kill, so think about how far you're willing to go.

I don't expect a straight answer for at least a few pages, but it would be nice; easy shot for Swagger or not?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You take what I say too literally, you know damn well thats what I meant, "Trained in the art of Ninja."

It's not MY job to say what you mean. That's your job.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, this is where Bob Lee's sniper training takes over. He places the claymores at strategic locations, knowing Batman will have the technology to avoid them, right? Makes all the sense in the world that he will make Batman take a certain route to get to him, doesn't it?

Not really, the only thing guaranteed about Batman is that he would get around them, or avoid them. There's no set way he would.

You fall into another trap also; you claim Swagger would know everything there is to know about Batman, right? If that's true, he'd not make the amateur mistake of thinking that such simplistic planning could thwart Batman. He hasn't done anything in the movies that suggests he could win this fight.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And so what if others have had assault rifles using them on Batman? Who? Someone with Swaggers training? Someone who is as deadly as he is? Someone with his marksmanship skills?

Marksmanship goes out the window with an assault rifle at close range, you either hit your target or you don't. There's only so good you can be with that kind of weapon.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Funny how they never mention that in the MOVIE.

That wasn't what I asked, was it? You'd certainly avoid Swagger's sniper fire, that's for sure. You could probably dodge rain if your ability to do so in debates manifested itself in real life.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I meant, and you KNOW I meant that I haven't been convinced yet, I already told you this.

You said you can't be convinced, now you're changing your story. Your attitude suggests that there is no way you can be convinced either.

Not that it matters, neither side is factual, but it's not a coincidence that you're on your own here.

-AC

Originally posted by Placidity
Although after awhile, it does get monotonous

I know, but why waste time with: "You're wrong, Swagger would win, Batman can't win this at all!" Just take that side and get on with it.

Originally posted by Scythe
Why would anyone try to convince anyone to change it? Do you not know how these Vs. threads work? We're suppose to describe how our victor would win, not convince everyone that one's choice is correct over others. Hey, during the Han Solo versus Captain Kirk thread Robtard convinced me Kirk would pwn Solo.

Besides, all you are doing is bitching and moaning about the conditions of the thread, you haven't lifted a finger to prove me wrong.

The problem with that, Scythe, is that you get people who feel they can argue for their chosen character simply because they get ideas.

Like in the Comic Vs forum, the Storm Vs Dr. Doom thread went on for about 200 pages, despite the obvious, sensible and logical conclusion being Dr. Doom. That's when freedom of speech is abused, instead of just saying to the Storm fans, "No, you're quite obviously wrong, end of thread." and closing it, they allow them a podium.

Like when they let people who deny the holocaust have talks at universities, why? They're wrong.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Besides, all you are doing is bitching and moaning about the conditions of the thread, you haven't lifted a finger to prove me wrong.

Others have, and like I explained to you in the GDF, you're just being ignorant.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, during the Han Solo versus Captain Kirk thread Robtard convinced me Kirk would pwn Solo.

That was an offshoot, thread achieved more than it should've that does happen.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Besides, all you are doing is bitching and moaning about the conditions of the thread, you haven't lifted a finger to prove me wrong.

Not suppose to prove you wrong, I'm suppose to decide who I think would win, describe how and there ya have it. Nowhere do the rules state there can only be one victor, or you have to change everyone's opinions, also no need for negativity.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He might as well be, that's how outclassed he is. That is opinion, my good man, nothing more.



No, I am the only one who can actually accept that Batman can be defeated by a normal man, albeit a normal man with unbelievable training.



Probably not an "easy" shot from such a distance, but Batman has to get close enough to Swagger to subdue him, yes? So let's say Swagger opens fire as Batman is 1000 yards out. 900 yards. 800 yards. 700 yards. The Bat is closing. 600, then 500 yards. 400 yards, 300 yards......Eventually Batman is going to be close enough to Swagger where the report of the rifle will no longer warn Batman when a shot has been fired, Scythe raised a good point earlier on how if Swagger shoots a mile away, on how Batman will hear the report of the shot and be able to drop and roll, avoid the fire.

But he is also ignoring the laws of physics, the bullet arrives at the target BEFORE the sound of the shot is heard. A bullet travels much faster than the speed of sound. So really the Bat will have NO warning of the shots approaching him. And the closer he gets, the easier of a target he becomes.






And who has Batman fought in the movies that is close to Swagger as far as being a perfectly trained killing machine? with his hands, knives, rifle, pistol, machine gun?



Sure, if you just point and spray. Swagger isn't that type of shooter, he doesnt just let loose like Tony Montana.



Whats this got to do with the durability of the Batmobiles tires?



I haven't been convinced YET......YET. look it up.

Originally posted by Scythe
That was an offshoot, thread achieved more than it should've that does happen.



Not suppose to prove you wrong, I'm suppose to decide who I think would win, describe how and there ya have it. Nowhere do the rules state there can only be one victor, or you have to change everyone's opinions, also no need for negativity. Negativity? All I said was that you were complaining alot.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Negativity? All I said was that you were complaining alot.

You dubbed it b*tching and moaning. That wasn't exactly called for.

But if that's what you consider b*tching and moaning, then how do you get by in life without pulling your hair out? It's a mystery.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That is opinion, my good man, nothing more.

Right.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, I am the only one who can actually accept that Batman can be defeated by a normal man, albeit a normal man with unbelievable training.

Exactly, and that's not ringing any alarm bells to you?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Probably not an "easy" shot from such a distance, but Batman has to get close enough to Swagger to subdue him, yes? So let's say Swagger opens fire as Batman is 1000 yards out. 900 yards. 800 yards. 700 yards. The Bat is closing. 600, then 500 yards. 400 yards, 300 yards......Eventually Batman is going to be close enough to Swagger where the report of the rifle will no longer warn Batman when a shot has been fired, Scythe raised a good point earlier on how if Swagger shoots a mile away, on how Batman will hear the report of the shot and be able to drop and roll, avoid the fire.

But he is also ignoring the laws of physics, the bullet arrives at the target BEFORE the sound of the shot is heard. A bullet travels much faster than the speed of sound. So really the Bat will have NO warning of the shots approaching him. And the closer he gets, the easier of a target he becomes.

Dodging, dodging, dodging.

For one thing, he doesn't have to get close on foot. Secondly, he doesn't need to hear the shots, Swagger however, has to make them. Nobody here is silly enough to believe he can with Batman being a constant moving target, in a forest.

So it's obviously not an easy shot, therefore, not as easy as you once made it out to be.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And who has Batman fought in the movies that is close to Swagger as far as being a perfectly trained killing machine? with his hands, knives, rifle, pistol, machine gun?

Al Ghul is easily as trained.

Right back at you; what has Swagger done, who has he fought, that suggests he can do all this? Movies, remember. Nothing, shot some stationary targets, a few moving ones who didn't know he was there.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sure, if you just point and spray. Swagger isn't that type of shooter, he doesnt just let loose like Tony Montana.

In all the scenarios, Batman doesn't want to get shot, so he usually makes sure he isn't shot. From what I remember, we've also seen Batman's cape taking on solid shielding properties.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Whats this got to do with the durability of the Batmobiles tires?

That you dodged my original question. Answer my question; considering who made it, the technology available and the geniuses behind it, do you not think that it's very possible they would have considered that someone might try shooting the tires, and done something about that?

Yes or no? I'm not saying the Batmobile has them, I'm asking if all things considered, you're willing to write that possibility off.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I haven't been convinced YET......YET. look it up.

Yeah, you did change to that after you clearly said something that is opposite in meaning.

"I said I CAN'T be convinced, which would mean I cannot, definitely. What I meant was, I can. You know, the opposite to that? Just hasn't happened yet.".

Totally plausible.

-AC

Originally posted by Scythe
You dubbed it b*tching and moaning. That wasn't exactly called for.

But if that's what you consider b*tching and moaning, then how do you get by in life without pulling your hair out? It's a mystery. Sure man.

For the record, RJ, you've made clear that you cannot be convinced, so as far as I'm concerned, the debate is done.

You can weasel about how you meant something totally opposite, but I don't really buy that, and I find it pointless to continue this further. It's an agree to disagree situation.

-AC