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Hal Jordan and Sinestro vs a blood lusted Surfer

for Hal lethal force is authorized

who wins

Good fight, I give this to surfer due to his upgrades. Surfer 6/10

i didnt know he got more upgrades when?

SS takes it handily.

What is this shit? barker

Hal Jordan would give Surfer trouble on his own. Add in Sinestro, and this becomes a rape stomp.

Originally posted by batdude123
What is this shit? barker

Hal Jordan would give Surfer trouble on his own. Add in Sinestro, and this becomes a rape stomp. Pretty much

What form of Hal Jordan?
Regular GL, Spectre or Parallax

Surfer dies. Each of them is easily on his level or there about.

Originally posted by batdude123
What is this shit? barker

Hal Jordan would give Surfer trouble on his own. Add in Sinestro, and this becomes a rape stomp. QFT.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Surfer dies. Each of them is easily on his level or there about.

....and people wonder why this board is made fun of so much...

Surfer would stomp them in a one-on-one fight_.

Team murder him.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
What form of Hal Jordan?
Regular GL, Spectre or Parallax
regular Green Lantern

Silver Surfer. Neither Hal Jordan, nor Sinestro have done anything to put themselves on Silver Surfer's level.

which is why i put them together

Originally posted by batdude123
What is this shit? barker

Hal Jordan would give Surfer trouble on his own. Add in Sinestro, and this becomes a rape stomp.

QFT

Hal Jordan wins.

Surfer, too fast, too versatile, too strong, too durable, too much power and none of the issues with having to recharge.

furthermore, he could easily just drain the rings from both Sinestro and Jordan.

^ I don't see him simply draining the rings of their power for an easy win. He never simply drained the classic Quantum Bands or Mjolnir or the Novaforce or non-insane Genis-Vell's Nega Bands, etc. Of course... those aren't perfect analogies. Classic Quantum Bands and Nega Bands had instant access to the unlimited energies present in the Quantum Zone and their rings have limited charges. Mjolnir is magic. Novaforce is imbued within Nova and not in a weapon... But I think it's too simplistic to suggest that Surfer wins this because he simply drains the rings of power.

But Surfer still takes this fight for the other reasons you stated. Hal and Sinestro are not in his league. They are decently analagous characters at best. Multiplying them by two doesn't change things.

was just looking at a scan where Surfer drained Hulk back down to Banner, whilst blocking a punch from Hulk.

also, in one of the cross-overs, Surfer has shown the ability to contain all the Oan energies in the central battery...

as for the lack of drainage with other characters, it's quite simple imo, he just never thinks it necessary. he's taken the Power Cosmic from other Heralds, because he deems them troublesome enough (Dominas for instance), he can clearly manipulate Odinforce, in effect bestowing it upon BRB so that's one that I think is arguably there to be absorbed/drained.

the Q Bands, I think they're supposed to be the inverse of the power cosmic, so perhaps he can't effect them but it has been stated that Galactus can absorb the negative zone so perhaps ...

Hmm. Seems most people think it would be a stomp in either direction.

No middle ground?

Cant really se team pumping out anything that would put Surfer down - Lusted aswell?

But i can think of a few things that Surfer does to put team down though.

Surfer / majority

Originally posted by janus77
was just looking at a scan where Surfer drained Hulk back down to Banner, whilst blocking a punch from Hulk.

also, in one of the cross-overs, Surfer has shown the ability to contain all the Oan energies in the central battery...

as for the lack of drainage with other characters, it's quite simple imo, he just never thinks it necessary. he's taken the Power Cosmic from other Heralds, because he deems them troublesome enough (Dominas for instance), he can clearly manipulate Odinforce, in effect bestowing it upon BRB so that's one that I think is arguably there to be absorbed/drained.

the Q Bands, I think they're supposed to be the inverse of the power cosmic, so perhaps he can't effect them but it has been stated that Galactus can absorb the negative zone so perhaps ... Hulk cannot manipulate his gamma energies. He can only draw more gamma radiation into his body. Hulk has no way of fighting off Surfer's draining of it. Hal and Sinestro both are experienced manipulators of their respective energies. They can fight against someone trying to drain them... I think. Although, have they fought any opponent that has tried to drain their energies? Because I can only recall Manhunters draining them and they can't resist that. Either way, Manhunters possess enhanced technology specifically targeted towards those energies. Unless you have scans where a competent energy wielder has drained Green or Yellow Lanterns of their powers, it's pure speculation that Silver Surfer could replicate such effects.

If this was the Silver Surfer from the Green Lantern/Silver Surfer crossover... then yes he could do so. But this is current Silver Surfer. And that's a non-canon source. Also, while I never read the Dominas fight (do you have scans?), that is from the MC2 universe in the future. Surfer could have gone through any number of changes in the future to explain that. Furthermore, Silver Surfer has never drained any heralds in 616 continuity. He's absorbed their attacks and replenished their energies. He's never stripped heralds of their powers. MC2 is also non-canon.

As for Surfer's feat with the Odinforce, it's not very clear what exactly happened. It's clear he sampled and synthesized it by Surfer's own words. But whether he could do so again is vastly unclear. This feat could very well be a virtue of his linking with Odin at the time or because of Beta Ray Bill's unique genetic structure. Personally, I doubt he could replicate the feat barring such circumstances:
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05056nx.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05064ff.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05079pj.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05088pq.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05109jc.jpg

The Quantum Bands are connected to the Quantum Zone. It's different from the Negative Zone. Ravenous' power was likened to be an inverse of the Power Cosmic. Not Quantum Zone energies. I think few people are aware of how consistently powerful and versatile Surfer has been. And while I don't put the best Green or Yellow Lanterns on his level, I still think it's too simplistic to suggest he pwnz them 10/10 by draining their rings. I've never thought so, but I don't need to think so to believe that Silver Surfer can beat these two.

P.S. "Have GLs fought any opponent other than Manhunters that have tried to drain their rings' energies?" Anybody? It would seem obvious that they must have considering their long history of appearances, but for the life of me, my mind is drawing a blank.

Originally posted by jalek moye
regular Green Lantern
If that's the case, SS in a stomp.

If in Spectre form, Hal in a HORRIFIC stomp.
If in Parallax form, Hal in a curbstomp.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hulk cannot manipulate his gamma energies. He can only draw more gamma radiation into his body. Hulk has no way of fighting off Surfer's draining of it. Hal and Sinestro both are experienced manipulators of their respective energies. They can fight against someone trying to drain them... I think. Although, have they fought any opponent that has tried to drain their energies? Because I can only recall Manhunters draining them and they can't resist that. Either way, Manhunters possess enhanced technology specifically targeted towards those energies. Unless you have scans where a competent energy wielder has drained Green or Yellow Lanterns of their powers, it's pure speculation that Silver Surfer could replicate such effects.

If this was the Silver Surfer from the Green Lantern/Silver Surfer crossover... then yes he could do so. But this is current Silver Surfer. And that's a non-canon source. Also, while I never read the Dominas fight (do you have scans?), that is from the MC2 universe in the future. Surfer could have gone through any number of changes in the future to explain that. Furthermore, Silver Surfer has never drained any heralds in 616 continuity. He's absorbed their attacks and replenished their energies. He's never stripped heralds of their powers. MC2 is also non-canon.

As for Surfer's feat with the Odinforce, it's not very clear what exactly happened. It's clear he sampled and synthesized it by Surfer's own words. But whether he could do so again is vastly unclear. This feat could very well be a virtue of his linking with Odin at the time or because of Beta Ray Bill's unique genetic structure. Personally, I doubt he could replicate the feat barring such circumstances:
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05056nx.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05064ff.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05079pj.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05088pq.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmicpowersunlimited05109jc.jpg

The Quantum Bands are connected to the Quantum Zone. It's different from the Negative Zone. Ravenous' power was likened to be an inverse of the Power Cosmic. Not Quantum Zone energies. I think few people are aware of how consistently powerful and versatile Surfer has been. And while I don't put the best Green or Yellow Lanterns on his level, I still think it's too simplistic to suggest he pwnz them 10/10 by draining their rings. I've never thought so, but I don't need to think so to believe that Silver Surfer can beat these two.

P.S. "Have GLs fought any opponent other than Manhunters that have tried to drain their rings' energies?" Anybody? It would seem obvious that they must have considering their long history of appearances, but for the life of me, my mind is drawing a blank.

I agree that current SS wins. His durability levels have sky rocketed and while the Gls may be able to hang with him enrgy wise he is physically too much for them and would therefore have more options. He also does not have a finite power source as he can absorb cosmic rays anywhere in the cosmos. Howver while i beleive his enrgy manip has skyrocketed aas well( chanelling the crunch, Galactus verified the difficulty level of this feat.), I also doubt that he can simply drain the Gls rings to win. I do howver think he can replicate the odin force feat. This is because if it was only because of his link with odin then i would think odin would have some knowledge of what happened as it could not have been done without his permission. Howver Odin initially did not even know what the surfer did.

What the hell are people thinking? Surfer could barely squeak out a majority of wins against either if at all. How about Hal upgrades himself into a daxamite and whips surfer's ass with a green ring and superman level strength? Or Sinestro Creates an army of silver surfers? To say that Surfer can beat both of these guys together is retarded marvel fanboyism at it's worst.

Surfer...

Originally posted by fangirl101
What the hell are people thinking? Surfer could barely squeak out a majority of wins against either if at all. How about Hal upgrades himself into a daxamite and whips surfer's ass with a green ring and superman level strength? Or Sinestro Creates an army of silver surfers? To say that Surfer can beat both of these guys together is retarded marvel fanboyism at it's worst. I happen to think I'm being quite reasonable. I've never seen Hal upgrade himself into a Daxamite. Do you have proof that he can? Or even circumstantial proof that he can alter his genetic structure that way? Has Sinestro or Hal ever created an army of fully functioning constructs that were actually as powerful as the Silver Surfer? Do you have any circumstantial evidence that suggests that they could even create an army of simple plasma constructs that could overwhelm a foe like Silver Surfer? I highly doubt that you do. If either Hal or Sinestro could create an army of fully functioning constructs, they could beat each other's respective Corps singlehandedly.

Neither Hal nor Sinestro are on Surfer's level. Quasar and pre-insanity Genis-Vell could take a few from Silver Surfer individually. Put Quasar and pre-insanity Genis-Vell together against Silver Surfer and Silver Surfer STILL takes the majority. Same thing applies here.

Originally posted by fangirl101
What the hell are people thinking? Surfer could barely squeak out a majority of wins against either if at all. How about Hal upgrades himself into a daxamite and whips surfer's ass with a green ring and superman level strength? Or Sinestro Creates an army of silver surfers? To say that Surfer can beat both of these guys together is retarded marvel fanboyism at it's worst.

Duo 9/10

^

Thanos gets 9/10 on Surfer. Hal and Sinestro don't.

Heh...

The team. Hal alone could stalemate Norrin, adding Sinestro is spite.

Originally posted by Soljer
The team. Hal alone could stalemate Norrin, adding Sinestro is spite.

^ durfist
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Silver Surfer. Neither Hal Jordan, nor Sinestro have done anything to put themselves on Silver Surfer's level.

Hal would lose to evn classic surfer. No way he can stalemate current SS thats been upgraded a few times.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I happen to think I'm being quite reasonable. I've never seen Hal upgrade himself into a Daxamite. Do you have proof that he can? Or even circumstantial proof that he can alter his genetic structure that way? Has Sinestro or Hal ever created an army of fully functioning constructs that were actually as powerful as the Silver Surfer? Do you have any circumstantial evidence that suggests that they could even create an army of simple plasma constructs that could overwhelm a foe like Silver Surfer? I highly doubt that you do. If either Hal or Sinestro could create an army of fully functioning constructs, they could beat each other's respective Corps singlehandedly.

GLs of their levels have done exactly what she described. Hal once recreated a portion of the Corps with his ring. Kyle has filled a city with constructs in order to fight Nero. Kyle once created living creatures (including a Daxamite and beings with access to the Speedforce). John temporarily recreated an entire solar system. Kyle has cloned himself. Hal and Kilwog rewrote the genetic structure of plant life in order to terraform a planet.

The team's being vastly underrated here. :/
Hal would go 5/10 with surfer alone.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
GLs of their levels have done exactly what she described. Hal once recreated a portion of the Corps with his ring. Kyle has filled a city with constructs in order to fight Nero. Kyle once created living creatures (including a Daxamite and beings with access to the Speedforce). John temporarily recreated an entire solar system. Kyle has cloned himself. Hal and Kilwog rewrote the genetic structure of plant life in order to terraform a planet.

I certainly dont doubt gls ability to create armies of sentient life or powerful beings. But i do doubt their ability to create beings on SS level.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
GLs of their levels have done exactly what she described. Hal once recreated a portion of the Corps with his ring. Kyle has filled a city with constructs in order to fight Nero. Kyle once created living creatures (including a Daxamite and beings with access to the Speedforce). John temporarily recreated an entire solar system. Kyle has cloned himself. Hal and Kilwog rewrote the genetic structure of plant life in order to terraform a planet. Time to clean house again... *sigh*

1) Hal recreated a portion of the Corps when he was amped by the Sentinels of Magic, including Phantom Stranger. You need to read 'Day of Judgment' again.

2) Creating plasma constructs is completely different from creating an army of fully functioning Silver Surfers. As to whether these plasma constructs would overpower the Silver Surfer, show me the scans. Until then, it's speculation and that isn't even Hal Jordan.

3) Kyle by virtue of his unique ring was subconsciously tapping into the Ion power during the 'Circle Of Fire' storyline. Try again.

4) John Stewart never temporarily recreated a solar system. He managed to make big amorphous balls of plasma energy. Interpreting that as an actual temporary reconstruction is reaching and speculative nonsense. Recreating the solar system obviously exceeded the ring's capabilities.

5) When did Kyle clone himself and what were the circumstances?

6) Kilowog, who specializes in genetics, induces accelerated mutation on organisms during the 'Rann-Thanagar War.' It's circumstantial evidence that he could actually rewrite DNA. It's speculative nonsense that he or Hal could rewrite their DNAs into becoming Daxamites. I could see GLs causing accelerated mutation onto themselves. I shall not speculate as to what that would actually lead to.

Are we done here? If so, like I said before...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Silver Surfer. Neither Hal Jordan, nor Sinestro have done anything to put themselves on Silver Surfer's level.

well i dont know about turning himself into a true daxamite but they can grant them selves indiviual powers like super speed so im guessing they could do the same to strength and durability

Sinestro was the ace of the Corp and considered the best ever before Hal Jordan joined. And Hal (aside from the Parallax incident) is considered the pinnacle of the current corp.

How in gods name can Surfer beat two of the best GLs of all time? And that's not even factoring whether he can fight the Sin corp rings.

"also, in one of the cross-overs, Surfer has shown the ability to contain all the Oan energies in the central battery..."

Cross-over. EPIC FAIL. You think Surfer is a being on par with Classic Ion or Classic Parallax? stfugtfo

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Silver Surfer. Neither Hal Jordan, nor Sinestro have done anything to put themselves on Silver Surfer's level. The incredulity expressed by veterans of this board is amusing. And would someone friggin answer my question: "Have GLs fought any opponent other than Manhunters that have tried to drain their rings' energies?"

Manhunters are a bad example. CONSIDERING THAT THEY WERE MADE BY THE GUARDIANS, WHO MADE THE RINGS.

People have tried, it's just very hard and made harder by the willpower of the GL.

Last two I can think of who shut down the rings, were Tangent SuperMAN, and Takion, both of whom are way above Surfer.

^ Yes. I know Manhunters are a poor example. I explained that myself several posts ago:Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hulk cannot manipulate his gamma energies. He can only draw more gamma radiation into his body. Hulk has no way of fighting off Surfer's draining of it. Hal and Sinestro both are experienced manipulators of their respective energies. They can fight against someone trying to drain them... I think. Although, have they fought any opponent that has tried to drain their energies? Because I can only recall Manhunters draining them and they can't resist that. Either way, Manhunters possess enhanced technology specifically targeted towards those energies. Unless you have scans where a competent energy wielder has drained Green or Yellow Lanterns of their powers, it's pure speculation that Silver Surfer could replicate such effects.And thanks for the editorial comments about how Tangent Superman and Takion are "way above" Silver Surfer. Something tells me that despite my honest inquiry, only well-read GL fans will have the capacity to answer, but will be recalcitrant to reveal such information unless it serves their own purposes. Maybe I should rephrase my question, "What competent energy manipulators have failed to drain Lantern rings of their energies?"

I'm not saying Surfer can't drain him. I'm wondering why you think it's going to work as a strat. What's stopping Hal from doing the same thing? He's not going to just lie there and let Surfer drain him.

Hal can match Surfer on pretty much any power he has, and even a few Surfer doesn't. Sinestro is just as good as Hal. How can Surfer beat two guys on his level who have no exploits? Because if he tries to drain one, he'll leave himself open to a pincer attack.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm not saying Surfer can't drain him. I'm wondering why you think it's going to work as a strat. What's stopping Hal from doing the same thing? He's not going to just lie there and let Surfer drain him.

Hal can match Surfer on pretty much any power he has, and even a few Surfer doesn't. Sinestro is just as good as Hal. How can Surfer beat two guys on his level who have no exploits? Because if he tries to drain one, he'll leave himself open to a pincer attack.

thats just it they r not on his level...maybe classic but not current surfer

Silver Surfer would beat Sinestro for a majority.
Silver Surfer would beat Hal Jordan for a majority.
Silver Surfer wouldn't beat Sinestro and Hal Jordan for a majority.

.................... What has Surfer done that puts him over the top GLs? No, scratch that. What has he done that everyone seems to be wanting to bump him to trans?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm not saying Surfer can't drain him. I'm wondering why you think it's going to work as a strat. What's stopping Hal from doing the same thing? He's not going to just lie there and let Surfer drain him.

Hal can match Surfer on pretty much any power he has, and even a few Surfer doesn't. Sinestro is just as good as Hal. How can Surfer beat two guys on his level who have no exploits? Because if he tries to drain one, he'll leave himself open to a pincer attack. Just so we're clear... I don't consider the hypothesis of Surfer draining Hal or Sinestro to be a factor in my opinion at all. Indeed, I'm scrutinizing anyone's logic that suggests he could do so. Got it? Good. On that note, show me where Hal or Sinestro has drained a competent energy wielder of their power. Because I think it's absolutely absurd to believe that either Hal or Sinestro could drain Surfer of the Power Cosmic.Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Silver Surfer. Neither Hal Jordan, nor Sinestro have done anything to put themselves on Silver Surfer's level. Furthermore, I have not seen Hal nor Sinestro accomplish a feat that Surfer cannot. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Unfortunately, all I've been presented with are overblown feats and miscontrued myths that I've had to bust for months now. Feel free to be the first to change that unfortunate trend and actually give me something I can work with.

Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm not saying Surfer can't drain him. I'm wondering why you think it's going to work as a strat. What's stopping Hal from doing the same thing? He's not going to just lie there and let Surfer drain him.

Hal can match Surfer on pretty much any power he has, and even a few Surfer doesn't. Sinestro is just as good as Hal. How can Surfer beat two guys on his level who have no exploits? Because if he tries to drain one, he'll leave himself open to a pincer attack.
I think his point is that if there's virtually no evidence of Hal overcoming energy absorption then it's far more likely the tactic will be successful for Surfer because Surfer DOES have instances of overcoming energy absorption to his credit.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just so we're clear... I don't consider the hypothesis of Surfer draining Hal or Sinestro to be a factor in my opinion at all. Indeed, I'm scrutinizing anyone's logic that suggests he could do so. Got it? Good. On that note, show me where Hal or Sinestro has drained a competent energy wielder of their power. Because I think it's absolutely absurd to believe that either Hal or Sinestro could drain Surfer of the Power Cosmic.Furthermore, I have not seen Hal nor Sinestro accomplish a feat that Surfer cannot. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Unfortunately, all I've been presented with are overblown feats and miscontrued myths that I've had to bust for months now. Feel free to be the first to change that unfortunate trend and actually give me something I can work with.

Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just so we're clear... I don't consider the hypothesis of Surfer draining Hal or Sinestro to be a factor in my opinion at all. Indeed, I'm scrutinizing anyone's logic that suggests he could do so. Got it? Good. On that note, show me where Hal or Sinestro has drained a competent energy wielder of their power. Because I think it's absolutely absurd to believe that either Hal or Sinestro could drain Surfer of the Power Cosmic.Furthermore, I have not seen Hal nor Sinestro accomplish a feat that Surfer cannot. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Unfortunately, all I've been presented with are overblown feats and miscontrued myths that I've had to bust for months now. Feel free to be the first to change that unfortunate trend and actually give me something I can work with.

Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof.

Good post. The Gls while in general can be classified as energy manipulators just like surfer, are fundamentally different and have weakenesses that SS does not.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
.................... What has Surfer done that puts him over the top GLs? No, scratch that. What has he done that everyone seems to be wanting to bump him to trans? He's not transcendant. He's just the peak of herald-level characters. So let me remind you what puts Surfer over the top current Lanterns, including Hal and Sinestro. Most of the credit for the scans go to Darthgoober and other contributors to the Silver Surfer respect thread. First off, Lanterns don't have Cosmic Awareness. Neither do Lanterns don't travel through time anymore post-Crisis. Silver Surfer does.

Lanterns don't casually destroy planets or create black holes. Silver Surfer does:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7697/annihilationsilversurfekt9.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9429/annihilationsilversurfeiv2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5159/annihilationsilversurfeay7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

Lanterns don't fight herald-level foes inside black holes while healing and providing escape from the event horizon to a transmuted Alicia Masters. Silver Surfer does:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8840317
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9323/galactusthedevourer217yj3.jpg

Lanterns don't get cut up into pieces, retain consciousness and the ability to maneuver and fight and then heal themselves. Silver Surfer does:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5174/silversurfer198902418te5.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4053/silversurfer198902422uk4.jpg

Lanterns don't usurp and harness the power of billions of souls from a foe into their being. Silver Surfer does:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2833/silversurfer199612022ft5.jpg

Lanterns don't have nanosecond reaction times, at least, neither Hal nor Sinestro have demonstrated them. Silver Surfer does:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

Lanterns don't evolve an entire planet's inhabitants and it's ecosystems billions of years in moments. Silver Surfer does:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5927/silversurferv3104p16li9.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4633/silversurferv3104p20cv7.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1791/silversurferv3104p21do2.jpg

Lanterns can't really shield anything or transmute anything without extending an aura around them. They certainly don't shield drive-techs of an entire planet's escape vessels from the electromagnetic interference of Galactus in a mere blink of an eye. Silver Surfer does:
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

Want to tell me again how current Hal or Sinestro stalemate against that? Especially when you consider that only two of these feats are post-upgraded Annihilation Surfer? Are there some feats they have performed that match these? By all means, please share them.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He's not transcendant. He's just the peak of herald-level characters. So let me remind you what puts Surfer over the top current Lanterns, including Hal and Sinestro. Most of the credit for the scans go to Darthgoober and other contributors to the Silver Surfer respect thread. First off, Lanterns don't have Cosmic Awareness. Neither do Lanterns don't travel through time anymore post-Crisis. Silver Surfer does.

Lanterns don't casually destroy planets or create black holes. Silver Surfer does:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7697/annihilationsilversurfekt9.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9429/annihilationsilversurfeiv2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5159/annihilationsilversurfeay7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

Lanterns don't fight herald-level foes inside black holes while healing and providing escape from the event horizon to a transmuted Alicia Masters. Silver Surfer does:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8840317
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9323/galactusthedevourer217yj3.jpg

Lanterns don't get cut up into pieces, retain consciousness and the ability to maneuver and fight and then heal themselves. Silver Surfer does:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5174/silversurfer198902418te5.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4053/silversurfer198902422uk4.jpg

Lanterns don't usurp and harness the power of billions of souls from a foe into their being. Silver Surfer does:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2833/silversurfer199612022ft5.jpg

Lanterns don't have nanosecond reaction times, at least, neither Hal nor Sinestro have demonstrated them. Silver Surfer does:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

Lanterns don't evolve an entire planet's inhabitants and it's ecosystems billions of years in moments. Silver Surfer does:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5927/silversurferv3104p16li9.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4633/silversurferv3104p20cv7.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1791/silversurferv3104p21do2.jpg

Lanterns can't really shield anything or transmute anything without extending an aura around them. They certainly don't shield drive-techs of an entire planet's escape vessels from the electromagnetic interference of Galactus in a mere blink of an eye. Silver Surfer does:
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

Want to tell me again how current Hal or Sinestro stalemate against that? Especially when you consider that only two of these feats are post-upgraded Annihilation Surfer? Are there some feats they have performed that match these? By all means, please share them.

Prior to OneDumb's posts I like many others considered high end GLs to be Surfer's equivalent. No more.

Very nice post.

Well classic surfer and high end gls are still piers IMO with a nod to ss but current surfer is quite a bit above them IMO

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He's not transcendant. He's just the peak of herald-level characters. So let me remind you what puts Surfer over the top current Lanterns, including Hal and Sinestro. Most of the credit for the scans go to Darthgoober and other contributors to the Silver Surfer respect thread. First off, Lanterns don't have Cosmic Awareness. Neither do Lanterns don't travel through time anymore post-Crisis. Silver Surfer does.

Lanterns don't casually destroy planets or create black holes. Silver Surfer does:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7697/annihilationsilversurfekt9.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9429/annihilationsilversurfeiv2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5159/annihilationsilversurfeay7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

Lanterns don't fight herald-level foes inside black holes while healing and providing escape from the event horizon to a transmuted Alicia Masters. Silver Surfer does:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8840317
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9323/galactusthedevourer217yj3.jpg

Lanterns don't get cut up into pieces, retain consciousness and the ability to maneuver and fight and then heal themselves. Silver Surfer does:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5174/silversurfer198902418te5.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4053/silversurfer198902422uk4.jpg

Lanterns don't usurp and harness the power of billions of souls from a foe into their being. Silver Surfer does:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2833/silversurfer199612022ft5.jpg

Lanterns don't have nanosecond reaction times, at least, neither Hal nor Sinestro have demonstrated them. Silver Surfer does:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

Lanterns don't evolve an entire planet's inhabitants and it's ecosystems billions of years in moments. Silver Surfer does:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5927/silversurferv3104p16li9.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4633/silversurferv3104p20cv7.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1791/silversurferv3104p21do2.jpg

Lanterns can't really shield anything or transmute anything without extending an aura around them. They certainly don't shield drive-techs of an entire planet's escape vessels from the electromagnetic interference of Galactus in a mere blink of an eye. Silver Surfer does:
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

Want to tell me again how current Hal or Sinestro stalemate against that? Especially when you consider that only two of these feats are post-upgraded Annihilation Surfer? Are there some feats they have performed that match these? By all means, please share them.

Very little of that is consistent with the way Surfer usually acts or fights. Individually GLs are probably a little bit below Surfer, I'll give you that, but the numbers game plays hugely to their favor. Bloodlust means Surfer is trying to kill them not that he'll remember to use all his myriad powers. To be fair the GLs aren't going to do that either but because they out number Surfer and because they really are quite powerful means they can without too much difficulty.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Very little of that is consistent with the way Surfer usually acts or fights. Individually GLs are probably a little bit below Surfer, I'll give you that, but the numbers game plays hugely to their favor. Bloodlust means Surfer is trying to kill them not that he'll remember to use all his myriad powers. To be fair the GLs aren't going to do that either but because they out number Surfer and because they really are quite powerful means they can without too much difficulty.

Sinestro is generally "bloodlusted" isn't he?

People shouldn't forget that even though the Surfer is applying lethal force, Sinestro always does.

Originally posted by llagrok
Sinestro is generally "bloodlusted" isn't he?

People shouldn't forget that even though the Surfer is applying lethal force, Sinestro always does.
Hal Jordan also has lethal force authorized for this fight

Originally posted by jalek moye
Hal Jordan also has lethal force authorized for this fight

Is he merely 'allowed' to use lethal force, or is he also out for the kill?

he'll use it if he deems it nessacary to take surfer down

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Very little of that is consistent with the way Surfer usually acts or fights. Individually GLs are probably a little bit below Surfer, I'll give you that, but the numbers game plays hugely to their favor. Bloodlust means Surfer is trying to kill them not that he'll remember to use all his myriad powers. To be fair the GLs aren't going to do that either but because they out number Surfer and because they really are quite powerful means they can without too much difficulty.
except Surfer has vastly superior mental capacity.
he maps star systems and notices the slightest difference in them whilst travelling at multiples of the speed of light.

he has Cosmic Awareness... an attribute that, when given to a human mind, drives it insane due to information and sensory overload.


simply put, two GL classers would still not be functioning at a capacity that Surfer would find overwhelming. he's just that much faster and more powerful in the head.

you wouldn't use your argument of numbers against Flash, would you?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Very little of that is consistent with the way Surfer usually acts or fights. Individually GLs are probably a little bit below Surfer, I'll give you that, but the numbers game plays hugely to their favor. Bloodlust means Surfer is trying to kill them not that he'll remember to use all his myriad powers. To be fair the GLs aren't going to do that either but because they out number Surfer and because they really are quite powerful means they can without too much difficulty. It's absolutely consistent. Surfer always uses his Cosmic Awareness in his fights to analyze situations, track opponents and perceive his foes' weaknesses. Silver Surfer has time travelled a dozen times, several of which were to BFR an extremely tough opponent. Black holes have been formed in three separate instances by Galactus' Heralds: Surfer, Stardust, Red Shift. I have no idea how many planets have been blown up by Heralds in their fights; I'm going to say lots. Surfer has had his body dismembered three times and been restored. Granted, his Unilord feat is the best energy absorption feat he's got, but he absorbs and usurps energies and redirects them at his opponents very often. Surfer has nanosecond reaction times. And bottom-line, he uses his speed a great deal. He's followed light speed electronic signals through a spaceship in that dismemberment feat and spiralled around a light speed energy blast effectively neutralizing it. Evolving a planet billions of years may be one of his greatest transmutation feats, but he has near a dozen planet-wide scale feats, including attacking every major city on Earth in moments, granting world peace twice, healing an entire planet's population from plague and the recent transport ship shielding feat.

And most of that was STILL pre-upgrade Surfer. This is current post-Annihilation Silver Surfer. I didn't conjure up some rampant fanboy version of him using random PIS, "never will happen again, never shoulda happened in the first place" overblown feats or misconstrued myths. Bloodlusted Surfer still consistently uses his power, speed and energy manipulation abilities. Maybe there's less chance that he'll temporally BFR the duo, but there's probably more of a chance that he'll just make a black hole to throw the both of them into and beat them senselessly while inside. And I say all this without relying on some simplistic conclusory hypothetical that Surfer simply drains their rings.

Neither Hal nor Sinestro are on Surfer's level. As I said before, Quasar and pre-insanity Genis-Vell could take a few from Silver Surfer individually. Put Quasar and pre-insanity Genis-Vell together against Silver Surfer and Silver Surfer STILL takes the majority. Same thing applies here. Show me something that current Hal or Sinestro has done to even approach Silver Surfer. Until then, my opinion will remain unchanged.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's absolutely consistent. Surfer always uses his Cosmic Awareness in his fights to analyze situations, track opponents and perceive his foes' weaknesses. Silver Surfer has time travelled a dozen times, several of which were to BFR an extremely tough opponent. Black holes have been formed in three separate instances by Galactus' Heralds: Surfer, Stardust, Red Shift. I have no idea how many planets have been blown up by Heralds in their fights; I'm going to say lots. Surfer has had his body dismembered three times and been restored. Granted, his Unilord feat is the best energy absorption feat he's got, but he absorbs and usurps energies and redirects them at his opponents very often. Surfer has nanosecond reaction times. And bottom-line, he uses his speed a great deal. He's followed light speed electronic signals through a spaceship in that dismemberment feat and spiralled around a light speed energy blast effectively neutralizing it. Evolving a planet billions of years may be one of his greatest transmutation feats, but he has near a dozen planet-wide scale feats, including attacking every major city on Earth in moments, granting world peace twice, healing an entire planet's population from plague and the recent transport ship shielding feat.

And most of that was STILL pre-upgrade Surfer. This is current post-Annihilation Silver Surfer. I didn't conjure up some rampant fanboy version of him using random PIS, "never will happen again, never shoulda happened in the first place" overblown feats or misconstrued myths. Bloodlusted Surfer still consistently uses his power, speed and energy manipulation abilities. Maybe there's less chance that he'll temporally BFR the duo, but there's probably more of a chance that he'll just make a black hole to throw the both of them into and beat them senselessly while inside. And I say all this without relying on some simplistic conclusory hypothetical that Surfer simply drains their rings.

Neither Hal nor Sinestro are on Surfer's level. As I said before, Quasar and pre-insanity Genis-Vell could take a few from Silver Surfer individually. Put Quasar and pre-insanity Genis-Vell together against Silver Surfer and Silver Surfer STILL takes the majority. Same thing applies here. Show me something that current Hal or Sinestro has done to even approach Silver Surfer. Until then, my opinion will remain unchanged.

GL's have sealed black holes and traversed them on multiple occasions, they have also time traveled, opened up warp rifts for travel, evolved and devolved life (human to ape, ape to human, and the shark come to mind). They've turned a devoid asteroid into a flourishing world. They've evolved simple life forms into complex organisms, restoring a planets entire ecosystem. Kilowogg absorbed the souls of his entire race (16 billion people). There are multiple instances of lanterns healing themself, even willing themselves back to life. As for speed, lanterns have caught flash, zoom, etc. They've survived and even absorbed super novas.

The ring can do anything. Anything.

Hal by himself vs Norrin has been argued to death on quite a few forums, including this one. I give the team the majority here, period.
Fact is, lanterns have a ton of VERY high-end feats, to say that Sinestro and Hal together are completely outclassed is asinine.

corection the ring can do almost anything

^ True. And newly made socks need not apply. Especially when they have to reach into pre-Crisis continuity and other Green Lantern's history for feats when this is current Hal and Sinestro.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I think his point is that if there's virtually no evidence of Hal overcoming energy absorption then it's far more likely the tactic will be successful for Surfer because Surfer DOES have instances of overcoming energy absorption to his credit.

What the hell? I've only seen people who have specific links to the Oan battery drain GL's in that way. manhunters, alpha lanterns, and gaurdians themselves. Surfer wouldn't be able to do that without much resistance from either of these guys.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ True. And newly made socks need not apply. Especially when they have to reach into pre-Crisis continuity and other Green Lantern's history for feats when this is current Hal and Sinestro.

Precrisis and Current continuity are one and the same are they not? evident by superman's history and memory and the legion.

no only certain things from precrisis are in continuity

Originally posted by jalek moye
no only certain things from precrisis are in continuity

And you know what is and what isn't? Where the rings affected at all? What changed about them? There is only one set of gaurdian's in all the multiverse. So why would thier rings change? They didn't.

Originally posted by batdude123
What is this shit? barker

Hal Jordan would give Surfer trouble on his own. Add in Sinestro, and this becomes a rape stomp.

QFT...

Originally posted by fangirl101
And you know what is and what isn't? Where the rings affected at all? What changed about them? There is only one set of gaurdian's in all the multiverse. So why would thier rings change? They didn't.
i dont understand what you mean. no one said the rings were changed or not

Originally posted by fangirl101
What the hell? I've only seen people who have specific links to the Oan battery drain GL's in that way. manhunters, alpha lanterns, and gaurdians themselves. Surfer wouldn't be able to do that without much resistance from either of these guys.
What about Photon?

Originally posted by darthgoober
What about Photon?

Crossover

Originally posted by grimify
Crossover
Canon crossover.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Canon crossover.

Only to dc correct? Or is it canon to Marvel as well? Kyle also used his ring to drain a cosmic cube. That is a Much greater feat than draining a GL ring.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What about Photon?

The nature of GL energy has been retconned as of Rebirth.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Only to dc correct? Or is it canon to Marvel as well? Kyle also used his ring to drain a cosmic cube. That is a Much greater feat than draining a GL ring.
He didn't drain the whole cube or anything though, he just used it to recharge his ring.

Originally posted by batdude123
The nature of GL energy has been retconned as of Rebirth.
In what way(and how does the recton suggest that the ring's energy is impossible to drain)?

Originally posted by darthgoober
In what way(and how does the recton suggest that the ring's energy is impossible to drain)?

GL energy isn't composed of electromagnetic energy anymore, but rather, will power in energy form.

Originally posted by batdude123
GL energy isn't composed of electromagnetic energy anymore, but rather, will power in energy form.
Well I can see how that might help against someone like Photon, but Surfer's shown the ability to directly absorb both psionic and spiritual energy into his person so I don't know if the recton would help them against Norrin. I know that you yourself never made the claim that Surfer couldn't drain it, I just thought I'd put that out there.

Originally posted by batdude123
What is this shit? barker

Hal Jordan would give Surfer trouble on his own. Add in Sinestro, and this becomes a rape stomp.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Silver Surfer. Neither Hal Jordan, nor Sinestro have done anything to put themselves on Silver Surfer's level.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Time to clean house again... *sigh*

1) Hal recreated a portion of the Corps when he was amped by the Sentinels of Magic, including Phantom Stranger. You need to read 'Day of Judgment' again.

2) Creating plasma constructs is completely different from creating an army of fully functioning Silver Surfers. As to whether these plasma constructs would overpower the Silver Surfer, show me the scans. Until then, it's speculation and that isn't even Hal Jordan.

3) Kyle by virtue of his unique ring was subconsciously tapping into the Ion power during the 'Circle Of Fire' storyline. Try again.

4) John Stewart never temporarily recreated a solar system. He managed to make big amorphous balls of plasma energy. Interpreting that as an actual temporary reconstruction is reaching and speculative nonsense. Recreating the solar system obviously exceeded the ring's capabilities.

5) When did Kyle clone himself and what were the circumstances?

6) Kilowog, who specializes in genetics, induces accelerated mutation on organisms during the 'Rann-Thanagar War.' It's circumstantial evidence that he could actually rewrite DNA. It's speculative nonsense that he or Hal could rewrite their DNAs into becoming Daxamites. I could see GLs causing accelerated mutation onto themselves. I shall not speculate as to what that would actually lead to.

Are we done here? If so, like I said before...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof. OneDumbG0 makes an excellent case here and no one has successfully countered his points. Based on this, I'd say Current Surfer takes this fight, though not in a stomp.

Originally posted by batdude123
What is this shit? barker

Hal Jordan would give Surfer trouble on his own. Add in Sinestro, and this becomes a rape stomp. QFT.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof. QAFT.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
OneDumbG0 makes an excellent case here and no one has successfully countered his points. Based on this, I'd say Current Surfer takes this fight, though not in a stomp.

...Very seldom do you see a thread dominated so.

durrelly

What pisses me off about KMC, is a seeming inability to do independent research. IE: Look up the scans yourself. We have a HUGE respect forum.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
durrelly

What pisses me off about KMC, is a seeming inability to do independent research. IE: Look up the scans yourself. We have a HUGE respect forum. ...

Wow, ODG is completely dominating here.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
...

Wow, ODG is completely dominating here.



Originally posted by Acrosurge
OneDumbG0 makes an excellent case here and no one has successfully countered his points. Based on this, I'd say Current Surfer takes this fight, though not in a stomp.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
durrelly

What pisses me off about KMC, is a seeming inability to do independent research. IE: Look up the scans yourself. We have a HUGE respect forum.
Trick, did you ever consider the possibility that people DO independent research and still disagree with you? Maybe OneDumbGo DID look in the respect forum and he still didn't find anything to change his mind? You act as if your case is so obviously right that you shouldn't have to prove it, but what if in actually you're unable to prove your case because it's wrong? If the plethora of evidence that you suggest resides in the Respect Forum actually exist, then why is it such a chore for you to track any of it down?

ODG's put up a closely argued and tight case. my own suggestion of power drainage, though off hand, was based more upon Surfer's battle m/o with other heralds and characters with energy manipulation abilities.

I distinctly recall him absorbing souls ("blackbodies" in his battle with the UniLord (who was an amped up Watcher gone rogue, iirc), I remember seeing scans of him absorbing a portion of DeathUrge too (though to what ends, I cannot say). these suggest to me that the assumption can be made that Surfer can drain/manipulate/absorb an energy not natural to him (mystical/magical) without much trouble and from entities on or beyond his level of power.

Surfer's Cosmic Awareness and mental processing speeds should prove key to any actual battle between him and the duo here, imo.

as for arguments about GL constructing foes for Surfer to might, I should remind people that Surfer has also cloned exact duplicates of himself, imbued not with a portion but with exactly the same level of power as himself.

Surfer can clearly buy himself the time he needs to formulate such a stratagem, as all he really has to do is shift out of the dimension of attack, go intangible, move into microverse or cast an illusion of an infinite army of Surfers circling the duo... by the time they get through that, Surfer should be ready to attack with his clones.

Originally posted by batdude123
What is this shit? barker

Hal Jordan would give Surfer trouble on his own. Add in Sinestro, and this becomes a rape stomp.

Batdude called this one back on the first page.

Frankly Goober, I could play his game. I could show scans, etc. But I'm not going to.

It's a waste of time. Anyone who can't see this is obviously not a fight where Surfer takes a majority, is too biased to see why.

It's pathetically and stupidly obvious that Surfer cannot defeat two of the greatest GLs of all time working on the same side.

ok, just for the sake of argument, won't you present a scenario that you think is likely to occur?

surely, if it's that obvious and we're all that deluded, it should be worth showing us up?

Originally posted by janus77
ok, just for the sake of argument, won't you present a scenario that you think is likely to occur?

surely, if it's that obvious and we're all that deluded, it should be worth showing us up?

He cant, surfer is just too damn durable.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Batdude called this one back on the first page.

Frankly Goober, I could play his game. I could show scans, etc. But I'm not going to.

It's a waste of time. Anyone who can't see this is obviously not a fight where Surfer takes a majority, is too biased to see why.

It's pathetically and stupidly obvious that Surfer cannot defeat two of the greatest GLs of all time working on the same side.
How is it biased to ask for proof of comparable feats rather than just assume that comparable feats are possible and in existence somewhere? OneDumbGo is being completely reasonable in asking for evidence that Hal is Norrin's equal after providing his own list of feats for Surfer.

Besides who cares if the feats you provide convince the person you're debating? I mean that kind of thing almost never happens. Evidence isn't really meant to convince your opponent(who's normally seen the evidence in question before anyway), it's to convince the onlooker's who are watching the debate impartially. And at this point ODG has not only provided evidence of Surfers power with scans, he's also addressed/debunked all the feats of GL's that people have put forth so how does he qualify as biased in your mind?

You don't have to agree with ODG's opinion, but claiming that he's biased because you don't want to take the time to justify your own opinion(which is something ODG has already done) seems to be more than a little unreasonable to me.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Batdude called this one back on the first page.

Frankly Goober, I could play his game. I could show scans, etc. But I'm not going to.

It's a waste of time. Anyone who can't see this is obviously not a fight where Surfer takes a majority, is too biased to see why.

It's pathetically and stupidly obvious that Surfer cannot defeat two of the greatest GLs of all time working on the same side.

*sniff sniff*

Reeks of bullshit.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer can clearly buy himself the time he needs to formulate such a stratagem, as all he really has to do is shift out of the dimension of attack, go intangible, move into microverse or cast an illusion of an infinite army of Surfers circling the duo... by the time they get through that, Surfer should be ready to attack with his clones.

I'm going to have to see him do those things in a fight more than once to give them an credence as a relevant tactic.


As for GL skill at absorbing energy Hal has absorbed the battery before.


As for making massive constructs:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e3a97a34.jpg

If they have to GLs can mess with time too. The truth is they almost certainly won't but neither will Surfer.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/c1772a9d.jpg

GLs don't have to concentrate very much. Here Hal makes a half dozen scanning probes while facing down AlanScott

Effortlessly makes a number of constructs:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLsearchprobes3GL16.jpg

Huge construct:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/LEGION-46-09.jpg

Surfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpg

Autoshields raise instantly:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glautoshields.jpg

Automatic defensive systems extend well beyond that:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glpoisonresistance.jpg

In freefall while under attack a GL makes a large construct and then shrinks it:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glmineclearingandplanetfixing.jpg

Cosmic Awareness is nice but as long as a GL knows there's something to look for the ring can find it and pinpoint the target to an obscene degree. Even if the request it somewhat vague. Here Hal finds subatomic aliens.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glsenses.jpg

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm going to have to see him do those things in a fight more than once to give them an credence as a relevant tactic.


As for GL skill at absorbing energy Hal has absorbed the battery before.


As for making massive constructs:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e3a97a34.jpg

If they have to GLs can mess with time too. The truth is they almost certainly won't but neither will Surfer.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/c1772a9d.jpg

GLs don't have to concentrate very much. Here Hal makes a half dozen scanning probes while facing down AlanScott

Effortlessly makes a number of constructs:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLsearchprobes3GL16.jpg

Huge construct:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/LEGION-46-09.jpg

Surfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpg

Autoshields raise instantly:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glautoshields.jpg

Automatic defensive systems extend well beyond that:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glpoisonresistance.jpg

In freefall while under attack a GL makes a large construct and then shrinks it:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glmineclearingandplanetfixing.jpg

Cosmic Awareness is nice but as long as a GL knows there's something to look for the ring can find it and pinpoint the target to an obscene degree. Even if the request it somewhat vague. Here Hal finds subatomic aliens.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glsenses.jpg

sorry but nothin u showed was impressive compared to what the surfer does

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm going to have to see him do those things in a fight more than once to give them an credence as a relevant tactic.


As for GL skill at absorbing energy Hal has absorbed the battery before.


As for making massive constructs:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e3a97a34.jpg

If they have to GLs can mess with time too. The truth is they almost certainly won't but neither will Surfer.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/c1772a9d.jpg

GLs don't have to concentrate very much. Here Hal makes a half dozen scanning probes while facing down AlanScott

Effortlessly makes a number of constructs:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLsearchprobes3GL16.jpg

Huge construct:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/LEGION-46-09.jpg

Surfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpg

Autoshields raise instantly:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glautoshields.jpg

Automatic defensive systems extend well beyond that:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glpoisonresistance.jpg

In freefall while under attack a GL makes a large construct and then shrinks it:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glmineclearingandplanetfixing.jpg

Cosmic Awareness is nice but as long as a GL knows there's something to look for the ring can find it and pinpoint the target to an obscene degree. Even if the request it somewhat vague. Here Hal finds subatomic aliens.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glsenses.jpg

IF the surfer has shown that such moves are within his capacity, then i think it is a viable tactic. Surfer has gone intangible numerous times and has also casted high level illusions numerous times.( He fooled galactus) He has also entered the microverse more than once. Therefore he has shown that he has all thementioned capabilities. With that being said i believe the full capacity rule should mean that he can use any tactics that combine his his abilities shown on panel.

Also didint wonderwoman also tag zoom? Not trying to take away from zoom speed but im just calling into question the fact that a being who can use one hand to block of two flashes could also get tagged by wondy and GL. It makes me wonder if the speds he fought each of them at were comparable.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Surfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpg

Is that the time Zoom was owning everyone, and then Hal came out of nowhere from behind to grab Zoom, and then Zoom broke out?

A few more things for people to think about

Hal uses the ring to perform rather advanced brain surgery. Keep in mind he is not a trained brain surgeon:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halmental2.jpg

Even short on power GLs can be pretty damned fast:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halspeed2.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halspeed3.jpg

Makes solid matter with the ring.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halmattercreation.jpg

This GL is Raker. He performs this feat with a total of 1 second worth of power in his ring:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glteleportation.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glteleportation1.jpg

John (a GL generally accepted as being lower level than Hal) is faster on the draw than Wally:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/johnspeed.jpg

As for just how powerful Hal is:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal2.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal3.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal4.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal5.jpg


That is AlexanderNero with the power of Ion he's simply disguised as Kyle which meant that Hal was holding back for that fight. In this battle Surfer would be fighting two people on Hal's level.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm going to have to see him do those things in a fight more than once to give them an credence as a relevant tactic.


As for GL skill at absorbing energy Hal has absorbed the battery before.


As for making massive constructs:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e3a97a34.jpg

If they have to GLs can mess with time too. The truth is they almost certainly won't but neither will Surfer.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/c1772a9d.jpg

GLs don't have to concentrate very much. Here Hal makes a half dozen scanning probes while facing down AlanScott

Effortlessly makes a number of constructs:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLsearchprobes3GL16.jpg

Huge construct:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/LEGION-46-09.jpg

Surfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpg

Autoshields raise instantly:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glautoshields.jpg

Automatic defensive systems extend well beyond that:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glpoisonresistance.jpg

In freefall while under attack a GL makes a large construct and then shrinks it:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glmineclearingandplanetfixing.jpg

Cosmic Awareness is nice but as long as a GL knows there's something to look for the ring can find it and pinpoint the target to an obscene degree. Even if the request it somewhat vague. Here Hal finds subatomic aliens.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glsenses.jpg
you missed my point with the tactics I listed above. they're to buy Surfer time to clone himself (which is just to demonstrate that he can do that, whereas the GLs cannot), not to win the fight in and of themselves.

as for what your scans demonstrate and what you say, there are quite a few disparities I have to say.

1. the "automatic defensive system" didn't actually automatically defend in the scan you show. the GL's ring was counter-acting the poison darts fired by the dominators. it says so in the scan.

2. that right there takes out the vaunted "auto shields"

3. detecting sub-atomic creatures is nothing that Surfer has not trumped. he's traced energy signatures across light years. and again, it took the ring time to find the source of the frequencies - time that Surfer would not permit a GL - oh and again, they actually managed to hit the GL because his ring was too slow in detecting the threat, yet again countering the efficacy of the "auto shields". furthermore, the ring detected their frequencies rather than the targets first. Surfer can disguise such things pretty easily.

4. I said nothing about "massive constructs", I was addressing the hyperbole about GLs creating Surfers to fight against Surfer with.

5. most of the above examples speak to the fact that GLs cannot process information at anything like the speeds Surfer does, therefore they cannot possibly have parity (or anything approaching) with Surfer in general reaction time and speed.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
IF the surfer has shown that such moves are within his capacity, then i think it is a viable tactic. Surfer has gone intangible numerous times and has also casted high level illusions numerous times.( He fooled galactus) He has also entered the microverse more than once. Therefore he has shown that he has all thementioned capabilities. With that being said i believe the full capacity rule should mean that he can use any tactics that combine his his abilities shown on panel.

Then I leave you open to a torrent of insane feats that GLs have performed a handful of times.

I've spent some time providing evidence for a counter argument if anyone would like to go into more detail. For those who still think Surfer will win it's not just Hal in this fight it's Hal with the ability to kill and with help from Sinestro, a Lantern always shown as his equal.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A few more things for people to think about

Hal uses the ring to perform rather advanced brain surgery. Keep in mind he is not a trained brain surgeon:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halmental2.jpg

Even short on power GLs can be pretty damned fast:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halspeed2.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halspeed3.jpg

Makes solid matter with the ring.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halmattercreation.jpg

This GL is Raker. He performs this feat with a total of 1 second worth of power in his ring:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glteleportation.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glteleportation1.jpg

John (a GL generally accepted as being lower level than Hal) is faster on the draw than Wally:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/johnspeed.jpg

As for just how powerful Hal is:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal2.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal3.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal4.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal5.jpg


That is AlexanderNero with the power of Ion he's simply disguised as Kyle which meant that Hal was holding back for that fight. In this battle Surfer would be fighting two people on Hal's level.
you do know what Surfer can do, right?

these scans aren't at all impressive.

Surfer doesn't know brain surgery, yet he can alter people's minds, brains, biology, matter ... and he has no need to fully concentrate to do so either, it just happens if he wants it to.

Surfer turned an inorganic intelligence into an organic form of life - Quasimodo.

Surfer's evolved a planet - simply beyond anything you can show for a GL.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Is that the time Zoom was owning everyone, and then Hal came out of nowhere from behind to grab Zoom, and then Zoom broke out?


Well yes. But considering no one else manage to do anything to Zoom in that scene it's a very good feat.

hal is impressive but he just wouldnt have much affect on the surfer...surfer trumps everything that GL does

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then I leave you open to a torrent of insane feats that GLs have performed a handful of times.

I've spent some time providing evidence for a counter argument if anyone would like to go into more detail. For those who still think Surfer will win it's not just Hal in this fight it's Hal with the ability to kill and with help from Sinestro, a Lantern always shown as his equal.

NO u dont understand. Surfer has shown numerous times the ability to the mentioned feats. So the question therefore is NOt whether him doing it is viable because he has shown more than a few times to be capable of such. What then should come under the rule of full capacity is him combining these abilities as a tactic in the fight. Just like superman combining ice breatthe then heat vision and finally his strength in order to defeat an opponent

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well yes. But considering no one else manage to do anything to Zoom in that scene it's a very good feat. Because Zoom didn't even know he was there...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then I leave you open to a torrent of insane feats that GLs have performed a handful of times.

I've spent some time providing evidence for a counter argument if anyone would like to go into more detail. For those who still think Surfer will win it's not just Hal in this fight it's Hal with the ability to kill and with help from Sinestro, a Lantern always shown as his equal.

i'd say sinestro is actually a bit superior, in terms of technique, but not by much... hal's willpower evens it out, imo...

i'm still siding with what batdude said... while i think surfer would more often than not take a majority from either man, both of them, imo, is more than even surfer can handle...

I remember Hal Jordan in an alternate timeline Giving Batman Superman level Strength, speed, and durability. How come Sinestro and Hal Can't each do that to the other all while creating massive armies of constructs? And how does Surfer drain a GL when he has to actually deplete the rings. It's not like one second and the ring is depleted. It would take effort, and a fight of will power from whom ever he would be draining. Leaving him open to the other. Seriously, the surfer can't possibly win against the two of the Best GL's in the history of GL's.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I remember Hal Jordan in an alternate timeline Giving Batman Superman level Strength, speed, and durability. How come Sinestro and Hal Can't each do that to the other

Because it happened in an alternate timeline?

Originally posted by janus77

Surfer's evolved a planet - simply beyond anything you can show for a GL.

Actually they have done the same thing, on two occasions that come to mind off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Soljer
Because it happened in an alternate timeline?
Actually In Wonder Woman, A GL effectively Gave himself enough durbabilty and strength to match and exceed wonder woman in physical combat. It was only when she started using her head and that lasso to break his constructs did things start swinging her way.

Originally posted by Raoul
i'd say sinestro is actually a bit superior, in terms of technique, but not by much... hal's willpower evens it out, imo...

i'm still siding with what batdude said... while i think surfer would more often than not take a majority from either man, both of them, imo, is more than even surfer can handle... 7iy3nui-aaI

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He's not transcendant. He's just the peak of herald-level characters. So let me remind you what puts Surfer over the top current Lanterns, including Hal and Sinestro. Most of the credit for the scans go to Darthgoober and other contributors to the Silver Surfer respect thread. First off, Lanterns don't have Cosmic Awareness. Neither do Lanterns don't travel through time anymore post-Crisis. Silver Surfer does.

IMO Cosmic awareness is overrated in battles. It seems like it's suited for cosmic imbalance awareness than actual battle. The ring is a better tool for that. Not only is the computer in the ring able to do the same exact thing, it's also a virtual encyclopedia of information accessible by mere thought. It automatically gives the GL's information needed and anything else can be asked *or thought of* and the answer is provided.

IMO the ring is a superior choice in this category.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't casually destroy planets or create black holes. Silver Surfer does:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7697/annihilationsilversurfekt9.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9429/annihilationsilversurfeiv2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5159/annihilationsilversurfeay7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

Rings are classified as planet destroying weapons. You are right that it's not casual but then again GL's are used to protect. *IE* You won't really see that type of thing because it's not what their function is. Kind of like baking a cake... I'm sure it can be done, but you won't see it on panel much if at all.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't fight herald-level foes inside black holes while healing and providing escape from the event horizon to a transmuted Alicia Masters. Silver Surfer does:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8840317
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9323/galactusthedevourer217yj3.jpg

Interestingly enough, SS states here that the board enhances his hyperspace abilities and that he would be trapped without it.

It wouldn't be hard to surround SS in a bubble that prevents him from accessing cosmic energy ala Dr. Strange.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't get cut up into pieces, retain consciousness and the ability to maneuver and fight and then heal themselves. Silver Surfer does:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5174/silversurfer198902418te5.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4053/silversurfer198902422uk4.jpg

I've seen an old scan of Hal and the league being in a similar predicament and coming out of it.

This feat is more of a willpower feat. Surfer isn't really going to survive being cut into pieces and we all know it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't usurp and harness the power of billions of souls from a foe into their being. Silver Surfer does:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2833/silversurfer199612022ft5.jpg

He got help from a blackbody upgrade which we don't even know if he kept...
This is like using Kyle's feats before he knew about ION power.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't have nanosecond reaction times, at least, neither Hal nor Sinestro have demonstrated them. Silver Surfer does:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

The 1st feat is hotly disputed, and the second one, while good is nothing tons of characters can't do. A GL would have no problem using a high speed ambush and rescue if needed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't evolve an entire planet's inhabitants and it's ecosystems billions of years in moments. Silver Surfer does:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5927/silversurferv3104p16li9.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4633/silversurferv3104p20cv7.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1791/silversurferv3104p21do2.jpg

Surfer only started the process. He had no control over it (as in the scans) and then his own power couldn't stop it.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
can't really shield anything or transmute anything without extending an aura around them. They certainly don't shield drive-techs of an entire planet's escape vessels from the electromagnetic interference of Galactus in a mere blink of an eye. Silver Surfer does:
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

GL's have raised shields to block Supernova level explosions pretty fast.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
to tell me again how current Hal or Sinestro stalemate against that? Especially when you consider that only two of these feats are post-upgraded Annihilation Surfer? Are there some feats they have performed that match these? By all means, please share them.

It really isn't hard considering all this stuff either had help, SS had little control of it, or wasn't doing any of this simultaneously.

Also, in that crossover SS couldn't absorb Oan energy unless it was GIVEN to him. Kyle had to literally give him the energy (only because he was inexperienced) as when SS was low on energy he couldn't absorb any of Kyle's blasts.

By that X-over, Kyle did something SS has never done, he drained Thanos energy to the point where he was powerlessly weak. Ect..not just of OAN energy, but of his own cosmic energy as well.

Surfer's energy has been jacked completely (leaving him powerless) or tapped into enough times to know that it's not impossible to do or even a long process when it comes to it.

Originally posted by Avlon
IMO Cosmic awareness is overrated in battles. It seems like it's suited for cosmic imbalance awareness than actual battle. The ring is a better tool for that. Not only is the computer in the ring able to do the same exact thing, it's also a virtual encyclopedia of information accessible by mere thought. It automatically gives the GL's information needed and anything else can be asked *or thought of* and the answer is provided.

IMO the ring is a superior choice in this category.That's your opinion. Fact is, just as you say, Hal has to ask his ring or command his ring to scan. If you're asserting that Silver Surfer could use Cosmic Awareness to instantly analyze GL energy and even usurp it, I'd disagree with that, despite never seeing Surfer fail at analyzing and manipulating any energy he's come across. At the same time, I would disagree that Hal could use his GL ring to instantly analyze and even usurp the Power Cosmic. Annihilus and Thanos couldn't harness/usurp the Power Cosmic despite their combined efforts, time and vast technological resources.
Originally posted by Avlon
Rings are classified as planet destroying weapons. You are right that it's not casual but then again GL's are used to protect. *IE* You won't really see that type of thing because it's not what their function is. Kind of like baking a cake... I'm sure it can be done, but you won't see it on panel much if at all.The same could be said of Beta Ray Bill and Silver Surfer, but they have the feats. GL's don't. It's speculation they could casually destroy planets. It's wildly speculative nonsense they could casually create enormous black holes.
Originally posted by Avlon
Interestingly enough, SS states here that the board enhances his hyperspace abilities and that he would be trapped without it.

It wouldn't be hard to surround SS in a bubble that prevents him from accessing cosmic energy ala Dr. Strange.Classic Dr. Strange briefly trapped Silver Surfer in a sphere with his magic:
http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bubbleqt3.jpg

And from that, you readily assume that a GL could do the same with their ring? I don't think so. GLs don't use classic Dr. Strange-level magic.
Originally posted by Avlon
I've seen an old scan of Hal and the league being in a similar predicament and coming out of it.

This feat is more of a willpower feat. Surfer isn't really going to survive being cut into pieces and we all know it.Surfer's survived being cut to pieces three separate times. He can survive being cut up and now you know. And the feat you're referring to is pre-Crisis Hal. This thread involves current Hal, so it's not valid. And I might as well discuss this again since I always encounter it in GL-involved threads. Green Lanterns like Hal retain their memories of the original Crisis. But this, on it's own, is no justification to attribute them pre-Crisis feats and pre-Crisis levels of power. There are three reasons. First, simply retaining memories of erased events does not allow alternate futures to be used, i.e. Superman/Batman storyline of 'Absolute Power' or Thor's storyline from 'The Reigning.' Superman, Batman and Thor retain full memories from their adventures in the future, but because of their non-canonicity as alternate futures we don't attribute current Superman, Batman or Thor any of those feats.

This might sound like a convenient equivocation for "Silver Surfer fanboys" to use against Green Lanterns. But there is a second reason. Because the same standard applies to DC characters. Prime example: Power Girl. She fully retains memories of her adventures with PC Superman and PC Huntress on-panel. In fact, most of her adventures were with PC Superman. Together, they exhibited extraordinary levels of power and accomplished ridiculous feats. Will anybody argue that current Kara is PC Kryptonian-level in power? Hell no. We don't attribute these levels of power to Power Girl just because current Kara retains her pre-Crisis memories. In the same way, we shouldn't attribute these levels of power to Green Lanterns just because current Hal retains his pre-Crisis memories. It doesn't wash and it's a selective double-standard.

We do this because the PC era involved ludicrous feats for many characters that transfer extremely poorly to current continuity. Kryptonians and Green Lanterns are exemplars of this. PC Kryptonians could sneeze away galaxies and tow planets with a chain. But current Kryptonians have never exhibited these levels of power. PC Green Lanterns could casually time-travel and combat black holes. But current GLs have never time-travelled and most have failed when confronting black holes. Finally, if you STILL think this is unfair for current Green Lanterns, just look at how we treat Dr. Strange. All his feats are still in continuity and as soon as New Avengers started punking him, everyone readily responded and agreed that there was a vast difference between classic Strange and current Strange in vs. debates/discussion. This was waaaaaaaay before it was confirmed that Dr. Strange was losing his powers.

For all these reasons, pre-Crisis feats don't apply to current Green Lanterns, much less current Hal Jordan.

Originally posted by Avlon
He got help from a blackbody upgrade which we don't even know if he kept...
This is like using Kyle's feats before he knew about ION power.Fair enough. Although, Darthgoober has consistently opined that Surfer never got rid of the Blackbody upgrade, whereas Kyle Rayner did get rid of the Ion upgrade. But I'll let Darthgoober argue that point.
Originally posted by Avlon
The 1st feat is hotly disputed, and the second one, while good is nothing tons of characters can't do. A GL would have no problem using a high speed ambush and rescue if needed.Show me a hotly disputed scan of a GL having nanosecond reaction times and I might let you call it even. Fact is, you can't. And there is evidence against GLs having that kind of reaction/speeds. In 'Crisis of Conscience,' Chronos uses his powers to slow Hal down. Hal's speech slows down to where a syllable is drawn out into seconds. If he or his ring could react in nanoseconds, then the ring would have done it's work in the space of that syllable. But it clearly doesn't.

Besides, Surfer shows the ability to: 1) outrace light speed signals; 2) track/follow light speed signals; AND 3) spiral around light speed energy attacks while retaining fully materialized conscious thoughts:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800917zr6.jpg

Therefore, since Silver Surfer is not prone to hyperbole and his cosmic status is eminently suitable for such reaction/speeds, it's absolutely safe to say that with the above evidence, Silver Surfer has nano-second reaction times as he states in this scan:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
Originally posted by Avlon
Surfer only started the process. He had no control over it (as in the scans) and then his own power couldn't stop it.Surfer says that the power is flowing from him uncontrollably as the planet evolves billions of years. Look at the second scan again. He never stops the power from flowing, which is exactly his dilemna. Either way, if you're suggesting that Surfer simply started and stopped... and he no longer needed to let the power flow through the entire planet, that magnifies the feat even further since Surfer can start a planet-wide billions years-long evolution without having to sustain it with continued power. Either way, GLs have nothing close to this.
Originally posted by Avlon
GL's have raised shields to block Supernova level explosions pretty fast.

It really isn't hard considering all this stuff either had help, SS had little control of it, or wasn't doing any of this simultaneously.I can agree that GLs can survive supernovas. They're going to be hella knocked for a loop though as John Stewart and Tarkus Whin are respectively:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_098.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glshields2.jpg
Originally posted by Avlon
Also, in that crossover SS couldn't absorb Oan energy unless it was GIVEN to him. Kyle had to literally give him the energy (only because he was inexperienced) as when SS was low on energy he couldn't absorb any of Kyle's blasts.

By that X-over, Kyle did something SS has never done, he drained Thanos energy to the point where he was powerlessly weak. Ect..not just of OAN energy, but of his own cosmic energy as well.

Surfer's energy has been jacked completely (leaving him powerless) or tapped into enough times to know that it's not impossible to do or even a long process when it comes to it. Crossovers aren't canon. I know you're responding to someone else, but they aren't canon. Otherwise a schmuck like Photon can strip Hal of his powers. No thanks. Surfer has been jacked by Dr. Doom and that's pretty much it. Dr. Doom first accomplished this against a depowered Earth-bound Surfer through trickery and an ambush. And as far as I know, only Dr. Doom has stolen/replicated Surfer's power subsequently through trickery/ambush again. GLs do not have Dr. Doom's experience or technology. Hell, Annihilus and Thanos don't have it either. In my opinion, Dr. Doom is the only character I know of other than Galactus that can steal the Power Cosmic.

Outright lies. PC feats ARE canon to GLs. The Anti-Monitor imprisoned the guardians and most of the corp by turning the power of the CPB against them.

The power source remained constant.

Originally posted by Avlon
IMO Cosmic awareness is overrated in battles. It seems like it's suited for cosmic imbalance awareness than actual battle. The ring is a better tool for that. Not only is the computer in the ring able to do the same exact thing, it's also a virtual encyclopedia of information accessible by mere thought. It automatically gives the GL's information needed and anything else can be asked *or thought of* and the answer is provided.

IMO the ring is a superior choice in this category.




Rings are classified as planet destroying weapons. You are right that it's not casual but then again GL's are used to protect. *IE* You won't really see that type of thing because it's not what their function is. Kind of like baking a cake... I'm sure it can be done, but you won't see it on panel much if at all.



Interestingly enough, SS states here that the board enhances his hyperspace abilities and that he would be trapped without it.

It wouldn't be hard to surround SS in a bubble that prevents him from accessing cosmic energy ala Dr. Strange.



I've seen an old scan of Hal and the league being in a similar predicament and coming out of it.

This feat is more of a willpower feat. Surfer isn't really going to survive being cut into pieces and we all know it.



He got help from a blackbody upgrade which we don't even know if he kept...
This is like using Kyle's feats before he knew about ION power.



The 1st feat is hotly disputed, and the second one, while good is nothing tons of characters can't do. A GL would have no problem using a high speed ambush and rescue if needed.



Surfer only started the process. He had no control over it (as in the scans) and then his own power couldn't stop it.




GL's have raised shields to block Supernova level explosions pretty fast.



It really isn't hard considering all this stuff either had help, SS had little control of it, or wasn't doing any of this simultaneously.

Also, in that crossover SS couldn't absorb Oan energy unless it was GIVEN to him. Kyle had to literally give him the energy (only because he was inexperienced) as when SS was low on energy he couldn't absorb any of Kyle's blasts.

By that X-over, Kyle did something SS has never done, he drained Thanos energy to the point where he was powerlessly weak. Ect..not just of OAN energy, but of his own cosmic energy as well.

Surfer's energy has been jacked completely (leaving him powerless) or tapped into enough times to know that it's not impossible to do or even a long process when it comes to it.

Cosmic awareness actually IS useful in battles. It instantly gives surfer important info about his opponent and also provides SS with important info about the nature of his environment. This is howver different from SS actual enhanced senses. Evn without the CA the surfer has extremly high end enrgy scanning and detection abiilities. All which will be very useful in battle. Ultra enhanced senses and and cosmic awareness is superior in this category IMO.

Also the rings may be classified as planet destroying weapons and personally i dont doubt their ability in that regard but when it comes to the actual destructive power output SS has them beaten feats wise.

As for the Dr strange thing. It should not evn be referenced considering that it was a magically designed forcefield made by classic strange. Gls are not using classic strange level magic. Just because Classic stranges magic forcefiled was able to do it( temporarily) does not mean that a GLs forcefield can. Not just any forcefield can cut off SSs power.

SS ability to fight or at least retain consciousness while in pieces has been shown on a few occasions and so has been verified. Also in the feat where surfer evolevd the planet billions of years, he did not simply start the process. What happened was that he was unable to control the amount of power he was using to perform the feat. Surfer has also molecularly repaired billions of people on another planet before which further shows his ability to molecularly affect beings on a planetary scale.

As for sufers enrgy being high jacked, this has hapeened only by high level tech or higher level enrgy manipulators( superior to gls). Surfer has shown against beings like quasar that his enrgy is NOT easy to manipulate or absorb.

"Cosmic awareness actually IS useful in battles. It instantly gives surfer important info about his opponent and also provides SS with important info about the nature of his environment. This is howver different from SS actual enhanced senses. Evn without the CA the surfer has extremly high end enrgy scanning and detection abiilities. All which will be very useful in battle. Ultra enhanced senses and and cosmic awareness is superior in this category IMO."

Last I checked, Sinestro&Hal are fighting Norrin Radd, not Mar or Genis-vell.

I hate that about Surfer fans. They always assume that all cosmic awareness is equal. No. Surfer is nowhere near as in-tune with everything as the way he's described on here at times. The kind of awareness you are ascribing him, is what Mar&Genis have.

Who has Surfer fought that's a true equal to him? Because generally, his opponents are either vastly inferior, or generally superior.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Fair enough. Although, Darthgoober has consistently opined that Surfer never got rid of the Blackbody upgrade, whereas Kyle Rayner did get rid of the Ion upgrade. But I'll let Darthgoober argue that point.

Better question is has it been mentioned afterwards as an upgrade that he has kept? Technically Kyle still has the starheart as well. I don't factor it into battles though.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
me a hotly disputed scan of a GL having nanosecond reaction times and I might let you call it even. Fact is, you can't. And there is evidence against GLs having that kind of reaction/speeds. In 'Crisis of Conscience,' Chronos uses his powers to slow Hal down. Hal's speech slows down to where a syllable is drawn out into seconds. If he or his ring could react in nanoseconds, then the ring would have done it's work in the space of that syllable. But it clearly doesn't.

I was speaking of Surfers reaction times in battle. He's great on his board while traveling...however, on foot he's a slug.

GL's can travel to keep up with Flash or Supes and perform actions while doing so as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/2d445df5.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glreactionspeed1.jpg

I don't count any of them (Surfer or GL) as truly having super reactions during battle. Unlike Supes or Flash who have truly used superspeed in battle situations.

As for the scan of SS being in pieces. Nothing Hal hasn't dealt with. His body was actually in different DIMENSIONS and he recovered a lot easier than SS did.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_149-29.jpg


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
, Surfer shows the ability to: 1) outrace light speed signals; 2) track/follow light speed signals; AND 3) spiral around light speed energy attacks while retaining fully materialized conscious thoughts:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800917zr6.jpg

He's ambushing in one at high speed, and going into a laser in another. I don't see these as anything special in battle.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Therefore, since Silver Surfer is not prone to hyperbole and his cosmic status is eminently suitable for such reaction/speeds, it's absolutely safe to say that with the above evidence, Silver Surfer has nano-second reaction times as he states in this scan:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg

The scans haven't proven it, especially in battle. One could debate that Batman dodging lasers gives him such speeds.

As for Black holes. It depends on the GL. Seeing as this is a rookie, and we have 2 of the best GL's here, SS creating of fighting in a black hole is of no consequence as per this scan.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl169_10.jpg

Here are a bunch of GL's going through a black hole just fine.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/377424dc.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7686be08.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
says that the power is flowing from him uncontrollably as the planet evolves billions of years. Look at the second scan again. He never stops the power from flowing, which is exactly his dilemna. Either way, if you're suggesting that Surfer simply started and stopped... and he no longer needed to let the power flow through the entire planet, that magnifies the feat even further since Surfer can start a planet-wide billions years-long evolution without having to sustain it with continued power. Either way, GLs have nothing close to this.
I can agree that GLs can survive supernovas. They're going to be hella knocked for a loop though as John Stewart and Tarkus Whin are respectively:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_098.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glshields2.jpg

Surfer couldn't control it and he simply was a catalyst to it. Should a GL have tried something like that, he/she would need quite a bit of willpower.

Still, It's an impressive feat, but not quite what it's made out to be...also, it's would be worthless considering a feat from Hal like this:

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a22a8b50.jpg

Stopping time for an entire solar system.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
aren't canon. I know you're responding to someone else, but they aren't canon. Otherwise a schmuck like Photon can strip Hal of his powers. No thanks. Surfer has been jacked by Dr. Doom and that's pretty much it. Dr. Doom first accomplished this against a depowered Earth-bound Surfer through trickery and an ambush. And as far as I know, only Dr. Doom has stolen/replicated Surfer's power subsequently through trickery/ambush again. GLs do not have Dr. Doom's experience or technology. Hell, Annihilus and Thanos don't have it either. In my opinion, Dr. Doom is the only character I know of other than Galactus that can steal the Power Cosmic.

I know xovers aren't canon, but if people want to use that particular xover, they are definitely barking up the wrong tree. Especially when they misrepresent it.

Doom jacked SS, Black Panther using a modified version of that tech has done it very recently as well. Ironman has tapped into SS power cosmic on the fly and the result has been a double KO. The Sonic Shark (human built missile) did so and weakened SS for a while, Dr. Strange put a bubble that prevented power cosmic from reaching SS which weakened him.

Surfer is far from invincible as well. Cyanide and T-gas can kill or KO him in sufficient amounts.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Cosmic awareness actually IS useful in battles. It instantly gives surfer important info about his opponent and also provides SS with important info about the nature of his environment. This is howver different from SS actual enhanced senses. Evn without the CA the surfer has extremly high end enrgy scanning and detection abiilities. All which will be very useful in battle. Ultra enhanced senses and and cosmic awareness is superior in this category IMO.

The rings in general are superior and they do this more often. Surfers cosmic awareness is generally useless in battle.


Originally posted by ultimatethor
the rings may be classified as planet destroying weapons and personally i dont doubt their ability in that regard but when it comes to the actual destructive power output SS has them beaten feats wise.

Not particularly. Both GL's and SS have good and diverse feats, but I generally think they are on the same category.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
for the Dr strange thing. It should not evn be referenced considering that it was a magically designed forcefield made by classic strange. Gls are not using classic strange level magic. Just because Classic stranges magic forcefiled was able to do it( temporarily) does not mean that a GLs forcefield can. Not just any forcefield can cut off SSs power.

All Strange's bubble did was cut off cosmic energy from penetrating the bubble. It's something a GL should be able to do with ease with a construct.


Originally posted by ultimatethor
ability to fight or at least retain consciousness while in pieces has been shown on a few occasions and so has been verified. Also in the feat where surfer evolevd the planet billions of years, he did not simply start the process. What happened was that he was unable to control the amount of power he was using to perform the feat. Surfer has also molecularly repaired billions of people on another planet before which further shows his ability to molecularly affect beings on a planetary scale.

I showed a scan of Hal doing the same while his body was in different dimensions. He's also stopped time for an entire star system.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
for sufers enrgy being high jacked, this has hapeened only by high level tech or higher level enrgy manipulators( superior to gls). Surfer has shown against beings like quasar that his enrgy is NOT easy to manipulate or absorb.

Actually Iron man, and human built tech has done it just fine.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"Cosmic awareness actually IS useful in battles. It instantly gives surfer important info about his opponent and also provides SS with important info about the nature of his environment. This is howver different from SS actual enhanced senses. Evn without the CA the surfer has extremly high end enrgy scanning and detection abiilities. All which will be very useful in battle. Ultra enhanced senses and and cosmic awareness is superior in this category IMO."

Last I checked, Sinestro&Hal are fighting Norrin Radd, not Mar or Genis-vell.

I hate that about Surfer fans. They always assume that all cosmic awareness is equal. No. Surfer is nowhere near as in-tune with everything as the way he's described on here at times. The kind of awareness you are ascribing him, is what Mar&Genis have.

Who has Surfer fought that's a true equal to him? Because generally, his opponents are either vastly inferior, or generally superior.


What the Hell !? All ive described of surfer is basis cosmic awareness and nothing exxagerated. Heck i evn used genral terms like important info so how were you evn able to determine what i meant? lol. Surfer has shown he can sense weaknesses, peoples enrgy sigantures, presence of life, hidden or concealed things, true intentions of beings and evn sense things on other levels of reality. Not exxageration but actual fact. I wonder how you came to the conclusion i was exxagerating when i hardly mentioned anything he could do

And surfer fights herald level charcters all the time and while he may be superior to them they are generally grouped in the same class.

Originally posted by Avlon
The rings in general are superior and they do this more often. Surfers cosmic awareness is generally useless in battle.




Not particularly. Both GL's and SS have good and diverse feats, but I generally think they are on the same category.



All Strange's bubble did was cut off cosmic energy from penetrating the bubble. It's something a GL should be able to do with ease with a construct.




I showed a scan of Hal doing the same while his body was in different dimensions. He's also stopped time for an entire star system.



Actually Iron man, and human built tech has done it just fine.

Ive described some of the things surfers cosmic awareness can and has done. ITs usefulness in battle would depend on the person SS is actually fighting and would vary from battle to battle.

Doctors strange said his bubble cut off use of power. This evidently means that it could cut off powers from functioning from not only beings using cosmic enrgy but any enrgy at all. To put it better actually its not about cutting off enrgy but the spell being made to stop powers from working temporarily. Gls forcefields and Classic stranges bubble as i said are unrelated.

And we really should not bring marvel human buil tech into this. Beings like iron man reed richards and doom have created equipment of unimaginable power and also especially for doom capable of stealing enrgy from beings of unimaginable power. It is in no way a bad feat for SS to have his powers stolen by such beings considering their track record.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
And we really should not bring marvel human buil tech into this. Beings like iron man reed richards and doom have created equipment of unimaginable power and also especially for doom capable of stealing enrgy from beings of unimaginable power. It is in no way a bad feat for SS to have his powers stolen by such beings considering their track record.

IronMan's tech is not even close to being out of the league of a GL's ability to create.

Originally posted by Avlon





Not particularly. Both GL's and SS have good and diverse feats, but I generally think they are on the same category.

I showed a scan of Hal doing the same while his body was in different dimensions. He's also stopped time for an entie star system.



Im not sure of this but ur scans look pretty old as in pre crisis. NOw i must admit that im no master of Dc continuity and certainly wont get into an argument concerning the validity of pre crisis feats. Ill leave that to Onedumb. Howver in the feat where the GL supposedly stops time of a whole solar system he specifically mentions freezing the beings within a thousand miles of the planet. It then says the creatures of the berlotte system are frozen but certainly does not say that ALL the people in the system are frozen. Now this might( not very likely) have been up for debate if hal had not specifically stated that he was freezing evryone within one thousand miles. Frankly that is not evn half the size of a planet let alone a whole solar sytem.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
IronMan's tech is not even close to being out of the league of a GL's ability to create.

Guys like Iron man can achieve unbeleivable things with prep time. They also have had numerous encounters with SS and experience with the PC.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Guys like Iron man can achieve unbeleivable things with prep time. They also have had numerous encounters with SS and experience with the PC.

GLs have used their rings to develop counter measures instantly about things they know next to nothing about. The ring also allows them to scan targets for data.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Ive described some of the things surfers cosmic awareness can and has done. ITs usefulness in battle would depend on the person SS is actually fighting and would vary from battle to battle.

You've seen SS use Cosmic awareness offensively in battle?


Originally posted by ultimatethor
strange said his bubble cut off use of power. This evidently means that it could cut off powers from functioning from not only beings using cosmic enrgy but any enrgy at all. To put it better actually its not about cutting off enrgy but the spell being made to stop powers from working temporarily. Gls forcefields and Classic stranges bubble as i said are unrelated.

Considering that GL constructs can do basically anything that the wielder desires, this is something that is not hard to recreate.


Originally posted by ultimatethor
we really should not bring marvel human buil tech into this. Beings like iron man reed richards and doom have created equipment of unimaginable power and also especially for doom capable of stealing enrgy from beings of unimaginable power. It is in no way a bad feat for SS to have his powers stolen by such beings considering their track record.

Iron man's tech (especially in that era) is easily to recreate. All Tony really did was mess with the EM spectrum.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Im not sure of this but ur scans look pretty old as in pre crisis. NOw i must admit that im no master of Dc continuity and certainly wont get into an argument concerning the validity of pre crisis feats. Ill leave that to Onedumb. Howver in the feat where the GL supposedly stops time of a whole solar system he specifically mentions freezing the beings within a thousand miles of the planet. It then says the creatures of the berlotte system are frozen but certainly does not say that ALL the people in the system are frozen. Now this might( not very likely) have been up for debate if hal had not specifically stated that he was freezing evryone within one thousand miles. Frankly that is not evn half the size of a planet let alone a whole solar sytem.

A thousand miles of the planet means the whole planet. As narration itself states that the beings of the system are frozen, that takes priority.

He froze the entire system. It's > planet.

Originally posted by Avlon
You've seen SS use Cosmic awareness offensively in battle?




Considering that GL constructs can do basically anything that the wielder desires, this is something that is not hard to recreate.




Iron man's tech (especially in that era) is easily to recreate. All Tony really did was mess with the EM spectrum.

The cosmic awareness is something that helps SS be more in tune with his environment. Against gladiator though they did not actually fight SS was able to sense his weakness. That would be very useful in battle. It also helps him sense the true nature of enemies which he has done in battle.

Gls powers DO NOT functon similarly to magic so this point is moot and should be dropped.

Ive not seen the iron man feat so i really cant determine what happened.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Gls powers DO NOT functon similarly to magic so this point is moot and should be dropped.

so why are they mistaken for it at times, even by the likes of hawkman?

Originally posted by ultimatethor
The cosmic awareness is something that helps SS be more in tune with his environment. Against gladiator though they did not actually fight SS was able to sense his weakness. That would be very useful in battle. It also helps him sense the true nature of enemies which he has done in battle.

It said that SS knew of his vulnerability. Nothing was said that it was due to cosmic awareness.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer5-18a.jpg

Even then, it's a bluff/hyperbole since nothing came out of it.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
powers DO NOT functon similarly to magic so this point is moot and should be dropped.

They don't have to. It's a simple construct either way. Not sure why you don't understand that.


Originally posted by ultimatethor
not seen the iron man feat so i really cant determine what happened.

He absorbed SS energy on the fly enough for them both to be KO'd. This wasn't even a recent costume. It was old tech.

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/458/norad35bd.th.jpghttp://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7042/norad48uz.th.jpg

This thread is hilarious.

Originally posted by batdude123
This thread is hilarious.

you're hilarious...




































































...but not really.

Hal and Sin ftw!

Like its been stated before. One of them alone would give Surfer a good run.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Outright lies. PC feats ARE canon to GLs. The Anti-Monitor imprisoned the guardians and most of the corp by turning the power of the CPB against them.

The power source remained constant. PC feats don't count for current Green Lanterns for the same reason PC feats don't count for current Power Girl. This isn't about lying or telling the truth. I gave you three reasons why we should not consider pre-Crisis continuity when discussing current Green Lanterns. I may not convince you with my reasoning, but you've done nothing to address it.
Originally posted by Avlon
He's ambushing in one at high speed, and going into a laser in another. I don't see these as anything special in battle.

The scans haven't proven it, especially in battle. One could debate that Batman dodging lasers gives him such speeds.Your dismissive logic is ludicrous. I've never seen Batman spiral around a light speed energy beam to negate it. I've never seen Batman swerve through a fortress while following a light speed electronic signal and thinking fully conscious thoughts. I presented by arguments for Silver Surfer's nanosecond reaction speeds. If you're not convinced through four scans that involve him breaking out of shackles in a nanosecond, outracing a light speed signal to save Nova, tracking and following a light speed signal through a fortress, AND deflecting a light speed energy beam by spiralling around it; then you will remain unconvinced forever. How you can accomplish these things, all while thinking full coherent thoughts, without having nanosecond reaction speeds is beyond me. They are required for those feats to make sense. If you think they are comparable to Batman dodging lasers, then that = phail.
Originally posted by Avlon
As for the scan of SS being in pieces. Nothing Hal hasn't dealt with. His body was actually in different DIMENSIONS and he recovered a lot easier than SS did.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_149-29.jpgPre-Crisis. That's from Justice League of America #149, published in 1977.
Originally posted by Avlon
As for Black holes. It depends on the GL. Seeing as this is a rookie, and we have 2 of the best GL's here, SS creating of fighting in a black hole is of no consequence as per this scan.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl169_10.jpg

Here are a bunch of GL's going through a black hole just fine.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/377424dc.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7686be08.jpgPre-Crisis GL rookie for the first scan and he isn't even inside the damn black hole. As for the second scan, they merely survive warping through the black hole. The brief time they spent inside obviously strained them greatly. Do you honestly compare that to Silver Surfer fighting another Herald inside a black hole?
Originally posted by Avlon
Surfer couldn't control it and he simply was a catalyst to it. Should a GL have tried something like that, he/she would need quite a bit of willpower.

Still, It's an impressive feat, but not quite what it's made out to be...also, it's would be worthless considering a feat from Hal like this:

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a22a8b50.jpg

Stopping time for an entire solar system.He places any alien within a thousand miles of the planet in life-suspension. He does not stop time for the entire solar system. Big difference. A planet + additional radius of 1000 miles pretty much equals planet. It's a planet-wide feat, not a solar system-wide feat. Great feat on it's own, the hyperbolic miscontruing isn't necessary. And what issue of Green Lantern is this from? Is this pre-Crisis or post-Crisis?
Originally posted by Avlon
Doom jacked SS, Black Panther using a modified version of that tech has done it very recently as well. Ironman has tapped into SS power cosmic on the fly and the result has been a double KO. The Sonic Shark (human built missile) did so and weakened SS for a while, Dr. Strange put a bubble that prevented power cosmic from reaching SS which weakened him.

Surfer is far from invincible as well. Cyanide and T-gas can kill or KO him in sufficient amounts. Ironman siphoned some of a depowered, trapped on Earth Silver Surfer's cosmic energy in the 'Avengers-Defenders War' storyline back in 1977, right? GLs don't get to fight a depowered, trapped on Earth Silver Surfer from 1977. They have to fight a post-Annihilation Silver Surfer. Sonic Shark also absorbed a great deal of a depowered, trapped on Earth Silver Surfer's energy. I don't need to repeat myself.

Now this isn't to say that his energies are absolutely immune to siphoning. Hal could try to siphon some of his energies, but there are only a few instances the tactic is used against a decently powered, post-exiled Surfer. Quasar, one of the top energy manipulators, tried it and still was getting beat:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2526/quasar5038mh0.jpg

Rogue tried it and was unsurprisingly overwhelmed. These guys with tech tried it, although they could only do so in increments. I don't know who they are or where their tech came from. Like most of the scans, they are from Darthgoober's respect thread. Darth, do you know who these guys are? Either way, for their troubles, Silver Surfer overloaded them also:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8799/silversurferv306209ar3.jpg

And a Unipowered Krosakis, who also absorbed Gladiator's energies, tried it. Again, he was overwhelmed by the power:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-16.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-17.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-18.jpg

Unless you possess Dr. Doom's tech, like Black Panther did, you're not stealing/stripping a current post-Annihilation Silver Surfer's Power Cosmic from him. That's the bottom-line. Thanos and Annihilus tried to steal Terrax's and Morg's Power Cosmic and they failed utterly. As for mere energy-siphoning, the only times a post-exiled Surfer has fought energy-siphoning opponents, he either still beat them or just plain overloaded them. Show me scans of a current Hal Jordan absorbing the energies of a competent energy manipulator and then maybe you can start arguing that Hal could attempt to siphon Silver Surfer's energies. And even after that, you still have to argue that Hal could absorb/siphon energies better than Quasar or a Unipowered foe. And even if you can manage that, this is still post-Annihilation upgraded Silver Surfer.

And as for Silver Surfer dying from cyanide poisoning... dur

Originally posted by Avlon
All Strange's bubble did was cut off cosmic energy from penetrating the bubble. It's something a GL should be able to do with ease with a construct. http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bubbleqt3.jpg

Classic Dr. Strange's magic is nullifying ALL power within the sphere. It isn't preventing cosmic energy from penetrating the bubble. Read the scan again. GLs do not have classic Dr. Strange level magic.

dur

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
PC feats don't count for current Green Lanterns for the same reason PC feats don't count for current Power Girl. This isn't about lying or telling the truth. I gave you three reasons why we should not consider pre-Crisis continuity when discussing current Green Lanterns. I may not convince you with my reasoning, but you've done nothing to address it.

Probably a post I haven't read since it's not directed at me. Either way, those feats are still quite valid. GL's were neither retconned by it and with new earth, more and more PC stuff is coming back anyway.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
dismissive logic is ludicrous. I've never seen Batman spiral around a light speed energy beam to negate it. I've never seen Batman swerve through a fortress while following a light speed electronic signal and thinking fully conscious thoughts. I presented by arguments for Silver Surfer's nanosecond reaction speeds. If you're not convinced through four scans that involve him breaking out of shackles in a nanosecond, outracing a light speed signal to save Nova, tracking and following a light speed signal through a fortress, AND deflecting a light speed energy beam by spiralling around it; then you will remain unconvinced forever. How you can accomplish these things, all while thinking full coherent thoughts, without having nanosecond reaction speeds is beyond me. They are required for those feats to make sense. If you think they are comparable to Batman dodging lasers, then that = phail.

Your going into a tangent is not becoming. Your arguments are not convincing and the reasons are stated why. Your scans didn't prove anything and you want to hyperbole your way into a victory for SS.

Look at your own statement. SS reflected a beam. LOL How is that different from Bats dodging a laser? Where are the feats of SS doing things in battle at these speeds? Non existent. Mind numbing long walls of text don't make you right.

Sorry things haven't worked in your favor.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
-Crisis. That's from Justice League of America #149, published in 1977.
Pre-Crisis GL rookie for the first scan and he isn't even inside the damn black hole. As for the second scan, they merely survive warping through the black hole. The brief time they spent inside obviously strained them greatly. Do you honestly compare that to Silver Surfer fighting another Herald inside a black hole?
He places any alien within a thousand miles of the planet in life-suspension. He does not stop time for the entire solar system. Big difference. A planet + additional radius of 1000 miles pretty much equals planet. It's a planet-wide feat, not a solar system-wide feat. Great feat on it's own, the hyperbolic miscontruing isn't necessary. And what issue of Green Lantern is this from? Is this pre-Crisis or post-Crisis?
Ironman siphoned some of a depowered, trapped on Earth Silver Surfer's cosmic energy in the 'Avengers-Defenders War' storyline back in 1977, right? GLs don't get to fight a depowered, trapped on Earth Silver Surfer from 1977. They have to fight a post-Annihilation Silver Surfer. Sonic Shark also absorbed a great deal of a depowered, trapped on Earth Silver Surfer's energy. I don't need to repeat myself.

Read the scan again... specifically the narration. What feat has post annihilation SS done that classic hasn't done? Did his energy change that all of a sudden it can't be jacked? BP used the same tech to jack post annnihilation SS of his energy almost instantly.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
this isn't to say that his energies are absolutely immune to siphoning. Hal could try to siphon some of his energies, but there are only a few instances the tactic is used against a decently powered, post-exiled Surfer. Quasar, one of the top energy manipulators, tried it and still was getting beat:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2526/quasar5038mh0.jpg

Rogue tried it and was unsurprisingly overwhelmed. These guys with tech tried it, although they could only do so in increments. I don't know who they are or where their tech came from. Like most of the scans, they are from Darthgoober's respect thread. Darth, do you know who these guys are? Either way, for their troubles, Silver Surfer overloaded them also:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8799/silversurferv306209ar3.jpg

Quasar threw that fight and has been shown to be able to absorb more energy than SS.

As for Rogue...LOL. She had problems with Magneto.

SS and GL could probably play the energy jacking game all day. Too bad Sinestro is in the fight too...lopsiding it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
a Unipowered Krosakis, who also absorbed Gladiator's energies, tried it. Again, he was overwhelmed by the power:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-16.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-17.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-18.jpg

He sure was...at first SS was trying to resist and the sudden surge did overload him. He wasn't expecting it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
you possess Dr. Doom's tech, like Black Panther did, you're not stealing/stripping a current post-Annihilation Silver Surfer's Power Cosmic from him. That's the bottom-line. Thanos and Annihilus tried to steal Terrax's and Morg's Power Cosmic and they failed utterly. As for mere energy-siphoning, the only times a post-exiled Surfer has fought energy-siphoning opponents, he either still beat them or just plain overloaded them. Show me scans of a current Hal Jordan absorbing the energies of a competent energy manipulator and then maybe you can start arguing that Hal could attempt to siphon Silver Surfer's energies. And even after that, you still have to argue that Hal could absorb/siphon energies better than Quasar or a Unipowered foe. And even if you can manage that, this is still post-Annihilation upgraded Silver Surfer.

Great, show me Surfer absorbing the energy of a GL. Quasar as shown can absorb SS cosmic energy and threw the fight anyway.

Just because a manhunter can do it..it doesn't mean that SS can.

See how easy it is to take that route.

It still doesn't provide the victory that you want here though.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
as for Silver Surfer dying from cyanide poisoning... dur

Being an ass doesn't contribute to your debate. Cyanide lasers were deadly to Surfer. What saved him was he was able to reflect the laser due to his silvery skin (guess thats a FTL example too?)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
dismissive logic is ludicrous.

Agreed. Don't throw stones from a glass house.

Oh yeah. Just wanted to mention this. Nobody sincerely answered my two questions a few pages ago, "Have GLs fought any opponent other than Manhunters that have tried to drain their rings' energies?" or "What competent energy manipulators have failed to drain Lantern rings of their energies?" But that's fine, because I recalled one example: Black Hand. For those that don't know him, Black Hand is a human scientist who built a rod device that could absorb GL energies. He could also completely drain GL rings and Green Lanterns could do nothing to prevent it. This scan is from Green Lantern #205, published in 1986, which makes it post-Crisis and thus current Hal Jordan:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4301892

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Oh yeah. Just wanted to mention this. Nobody sincerely answered my two questions a few pages ago, "Have GLs fought any opponent other than Manhunters that have tried to drain their rings' energies?" or "What competent energy manipulators have failed to drain Lantern rings of their energies?" But that's fine, because I recalled one example: Black Hand. For those that don't know him, Black Hand is a human scientist who built a rod device that could absorb GL energies. He could also completely drain GL rings and Green Lanterns could do nothing to prevent it. This scan is from Green Lantern #205, published in 1986, which makes it post-Crisis and thus current Hal Jordan:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4301892

unless stated otherwise, people are the same post as they were pre crisis in alot of cases...

just, you know, fyi... srug

Originally posted by Avlon
Probably a post I haven't read since it's not directed at me. Either way, those feats are still quite valid. GL's were neither retconned by it and with new earth, more and more PC stuff is coming back anyway."Does Kara possess a pre-Crisis Kryptonian power level?" Answer the question. Yes or no. Your unsupported conclusion and dodge of my reasoning is hardly convincing.
Originally posted by Avlon
Your going into a tangent is not becoming. Your arguments are not convincing and the reasons are stated why. Your scans didn't prove anything and you want to hyperbole your way into a victory for SS.

Look at your own statement. SS reflected a beam. LOL How is that different from Bats dodging a laser? Where are the feats of SS doing things in battle at these speeds? Non existent. Mind numbing long walls of text don't make you right.

Sorry things haven't worked in your favor. http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800917zr6.jpg

You didn't bother reading the scan, did you? He's spiralling around the energy beam. He isn't simply standing in front of it. To nullify a beam by spiralling around it requires FTL speeds and reflexes. How the hell is that comparable to Batman dodging lasers? I'm not hyperbolizing anything. In the space of time that an electronic signal travelled through the fortress back to the fortress' computer, Silver Surfer had full thoughts as indicated by his thought bubbles. Light travels roughly 1 foot every 1 nanosecond. Assuming that the fortress is a mile wide, Silver Surfer chased the electronic signal for 5280 feet. That means the entire scene occurred in 5280 nanoseconds. That's 5 picoseconds (1 picosecond = 1000 nanoseconds). In other words, even assuming that the fortress was immense enough to have a mile's worth of corridors, Surfer thought all of his thoughts within 5 picoseconds. Darthgoober is probably the only one that can tell us how big that fortress is. Either way, that's not hyperbole. That's logic. And if you cared to actually read the scan, you would have seen that.
Originally posted by Avlon
Read the scan again... specifically the narration. What feat has post annihilation SS done that classic hasn't done? Did his energy change that all of a sudden it can't be jacked? BP used the same tech to jack post annnihilation SS of his energy almost instantly.

Quasar threw that fight and has been shown to be able to absorb more energy than SS.

As for Rogue...LOL. She had problems with Magneto.

SS and GL could probably play the energy jacking game all day. Too bad Sinestro is in the fight too...lopsiding it.

He sure was...at first SS was trying to resist and the sudden surge did overload him. He wasn't expecting it.

Great, show me Surfer absorbing the energy of a GL. Quasar as shown can absorb SS cosmic energy and threw the fight anyway.

Just because a manhunter can do it..it doesn't mean that SS can.

See how easy it is to take that route.

It still doesn't provide the victory that you want here though.
Since when does a GL have Doom's tech in this fight? By that very same logic, since when does Silver Surfer have Black Hand's tech? Please. Anytime a foe has tried to siphon a post-exiled Silver Surfer's energy, they either lost or they were overwhelmed. And current Hal has had his ring completely drained by Black Hand. With this in mind, you tell me how current Hal and current Surfer stack up when you compare outright energy stealing or mere energy siphoning.
Originally posted by Avlon
Being an ass doesn't contribute to your debate. Cyanide lasers were deadly to Surfer. What saved him was he was able to reflect the laser due to his silvery skin (guess thats a FTL example too?)

Agreed. Don't throw stones from a glass house. Then if it didn't work on Silver Surfer, what the hell is the point of mentioning it? Oh and sorry about the walls of text, I am actually taking the effort to address every single one of your points. Can't say the same for you.

Originally posted by Raoul
unless stated otherwise, people are the same post as they were pre crisis in alot of cases...

just, you know, fyi... srug Name some.

Fact is, current Superman's power level is not PC Kryptonian. And yet, as everybody likes to mention, his adventures as PC Superboy were retconned back into current continuity. "So... considering PC Superboy could tow dozens of planets on a chain, travel through time and throw neutron stars that exert more magnetic pull than a dozen supernovas, do we attribute that to current Superman?"

Answer the question, yes or no.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Name some.

Fact is, current Superman's power level is not PC Kryptonian. And yet, as everybody likes to mention, his adventures as PC Superboy were retconned back into current continuity. "So... considering PC Superboy could tow dozens of planets on a chain, travel through time and throw neutron stars that exert more magnetic pull than a dozen supernovas, do we attribute that to current Superman?"

Answer the question, yes or no.

Superman is one of the 'otherwise stated'

and no, alot of pc feats for superman cant be applied to current superman, but as i said, he's the exception, not the rule...

^ Hal Jordan is also one of the 'otherwise stated.'

Current Superman isn't the exception. He's a prime example of the application of the general rule that pre-Crisis is pre-Crisis and not current continuity. We disregard pre-Crisis continuity when discussing current DC characters. That is the general rule, not the other way around. People have acknowledged this by making threads with classic Hal Jordan.

Now some people are arguing that the exception to the rule is Green Lantern. Utter garbage. Power Girl has just as much reason to share her pre-Crisis continuity as Hal does since she also remembers everything. Current Superman has MORE reason to share in his pre-Crisis continuity than Hal does since his pre-Crisis adventures as Superboy were officially retconned back into current continuity. How does Hal become the exception to this rule and they don't? Anybody who believes such a result passes the bullshit test is applying a selective double-standard solely out of ignorant convenience or rampant fanboyism.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Hal Jordan is also one of the 'otherwise stated.'

proof?



yet in dc the lanterns weren't altered that much by the crisis at all... they knew the anti monitor, their rings were still weak against yellow right up until kyle came along...



anyone, as in me?

superman has some experiences that he shared with the legion made canon again, thats all.

powergirl is actually from earth 2.

still not seen any rational argument for believing Hal + Sinestro could beat current Surfer.

the scans Symmetric Chaos put up, are more convincing as reasons why no GL could beat Surfer - the ring is too slow, too weak, too limited, compared to the Power Cosmic.

Originally posted by Raoul
proof?

yet in dc the lanterns weren't altered that much by the crisis at all... they knew the anti monitor, their rings were still weak against yellow right up until kyle came along...

anyone, as in me?

superman has some experiences that he shared with the legion made canon again, thats all.

powergirl is actually from earth 2. You're damn straight I'm referring to you if you think the logic washes. You're asking me for proof? That's what I should be asking you! I'm just applying the rule of pre-Crisis continuity being separate from current continuity. Hal retains his memories of pre-Crisis continuity. That's it. What do you mean, "the lanterns weren't altered that much by the crisis at all?" Since the original Crisis, ALL Green Lanterns have been consistently depicted as having FAR less power and versatility than pre-Crisis Green Lanterns. Indeed, in current continuity there is contradictory evidence that Green Lanterns could even perform pre-Crisis level feats. Let's take time-travel for instance.

Pre-Crisis Hal has time-travelled with ease several times. You've seen the scans in the respect thread, I'm sure. After the Crisis, not a single Green Lantern has travelled through time using their ring. Indeed, here we see Hal, as Parallax (hereafter referred to as Hallax), stating he had to take time to refocus his energies JUST so he could slip into the timestream. Then he used the energy anomalies to travel to the end of time:
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9km8.jpg

That's a pretty damn stark contrast, if not outright contradiction when Hallax, possessed of the entire Power of the Guardians drained from the Central Power Battery, had to find a roundabout way to time-travel as opposed to pre-Crisis Hal, who could do the same with a normal ring and zip back and forth through time as easily as you or I walk through the door.

Green Lanterns are the exception to the Crisis? It doesn't wash. Kara is from Earth-2, so what? She remembers all her adventures with PC Superman (or Superman-2), they happened to her pre-Crisis. Her origin is still the same. But she's exhibited FAR less power than what she exhibited pre-Crisis. What's the difference between her and Hal? Somehow, you decided that this exception became the rule? No thanks. What other DC characters do you think retain their pre-Crisis continuity?

I don't get it, why do people assume that Pre Crisis GL feats are valid just because the GL's "remember" things from the PC era? Even directly following COIE several DC characters still remembered and referenced events from Pre Crisis stories but we've never credited them with PC feats to my knowledge .

Originally posted by Avlon
They don't have to. It's a simple construct either way. Not sure why you don't understand that.




He absorbed SS energy on the fly enough for them both to be KO'd. This wasn't even a recent costume. It was old tech.

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/458/norad35bd.th.jpghttp://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7042/norad48uz.th.jpg

Saying that its just a simple construct and so a GL can do also is absolutely ridiculous considering that Classic strange used magic to accomplish it. It was NOT simply an enrgy sphere he trapped SS in. It was a mystic field that cancels out all power within it. How is Hal Jordan going to do that without magic? YEs Hal can create a forcefield around SS but to say it will work the same way as Stranges forcefield is laughable. Strange used magic to cast that sphere which hal wont be using. Lets say strange had used a magic sphere that causes the powers of the person within to change form( e.g instead of supes heat vision water starts coming out of his eyes), Do u think Hal would be able to do the same? Afterall in ur own words it is just a construct isnt it? .Weak reasoning to say the least.

Now that ive seen the scan i really dont know why ur referencing it. It happened to a depowered surfer much weaker than evn normal surfer before annihalation let alone after his upgrade. Surfer has since then resisted is enrgy being absorbed by numerous beings and there certainly no way in hell current iron man is absorbing post annihaltion surfers powers.

Originally posted by Avlon





Read the scan again... specifically the narration. What feat has post annihilation SS done that classic hasn't done? Did his energy change that all of a sudden it can't be jacked? BP used the same tech to jack post annnihilation SS of his energy almost instantly.


Quasar threw that fight and has been shown to be able to absorb more energy than SS.



In the so called solar system time freezing scan it is never mentioned that Hal froze ALL the beings in the solar system. Hal himself states that he is freezing all creatures within a thousand mile radius of the shattered planet. The narration then says the beings of the system are then frozen referring to those within the thousand mile radius( who are beings of that solar system) that Hal himself mentions. NO where did it say ALL the beings in the solar sytem and thankfully it did not as that would have contradicted what Hal himself said he was doing.

And inreference to the quasar fight, Quasar might have thrown the fight but it does not take away from his admission( It was actually a thought so he was not simply lying to SS) that he was unable to absorb all of SS enrgy. Yes it has bin shown that Quasar can absorb more enrgy than SS but SS enrgy absorption capabilities dont evn come into play in that scan rather it is his large enrgy output that is portrayed there.