Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

During the final Joker scene, I found myself getting really sad, because it seemed like the perfect set up for Joker and Bats to continue their battles, yet I knew it can never be now that Heath is dead. What are your thoughts? I don't see how a Batman villain will be able to top what Ledger did.

I am sad, but at the same time it's kind of good. Not that Heath died of course but because this performance was so perfect and they didn't overuse him or anything IMO and the Joker was not ruined at all in this film so I rather like knowing that his portrayal will be remembered this way in this series and there's no chance to ruin it at all even though I think the probability is low that Nolan would have. I wouldn't have minded seeing him in Arkham in 3.

Yeah, I am also kinda sad. I know this won't be the last time we see the Joker on film. But however imo this will be the last time we will see that kind of performance in this role ever again. I really wish they don't make Joker on film again and let Heath go down with the honor.

It's possible that they'd get someone else to play the part.

Originally posted by BackFire
It's possible that they'd get someone else to play the part.


Possible but won't be the same and nowhere even close. In fact imo it would be a down fall....

Yeah it sucks more that we won't get to see any more of Heath's awesome work.

Originally posted by Myth
During the final Joker scene, I found myself getting really sad, because it seemed like the perfect set up for Joker and Bats to continue their battles, yet I knew it can never be now that Heath is dead. What are your thoughts? I don't see how a Batman villain will be able to top what Ledger did.


Well it is very sad that Heath will not be able to return especially since The Joker ande Batman were gonna team up in the next one

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Possible but won't be the same and nowhere even close. In fact imo it would be a down fall....

Well, if it HAS to happen, it will... If Nolan really wants Joker in the 3rd movie, he'll recast him, then we'll have to roll with it... I don't think he'll want to, though...

Personally, if we see someone with Ledger style green hair and such in a straight jacket and we ONLY see his back, and we hear recycled audio of Ledger Joker, that'd suffice...

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Well it is very sad that Heath will not be able to return especially since The Joker ande Batman were gonna team up in the next one

I kind of imagined Batman using Joker like a Hannibal Lector character.

Edit: Actually it just came to me that they could still do something like that, but using Scarecrow instead. Afterall, Scarecrow is a psychiatrist.

Who's to say that we won't have another Joker portrayal in the sequential Batman movies?

Wouldn't it be nice if Heath's death was a Joker-esque publicity stunt and he'd showed up at the premiere -maybe in a body bag, like in the movie?

Originally posted by Impediment
Who's to say that we won't have another Joker portrayal in the sequential Batman movies?

No one and someone will probably cast Joker again, but why? Because someone thinks they can do a equal or a better performance? and if they do this it won't be as good because Heath set the bar so damn high. Now if Heath didn't do that great of a job or wasn't casted for the role at all....then yes it would be easy to cast another for the Joker.

It's a tough one to call because there isn't another Batman villain who could top The Joker, but I can't imagine any other actor being able to top Heath Ledger's portrayal of the character.

However, I can't see the next movie having The Riddler, Hush, etc. as the main villains because they'd be a step-down, and Nolan's Batman movies haven't been as uninspired as a trip down that route would be. Unless he's said otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if this was his last Batman movie. It's difficult to see how it could be bettered given the circumstances.

i highly doubt there is an actor out there that can replicate or top Ledger's performance...

Also, no matter what they do, they can't really do any better than what they did with Dark Knight. The movie was soo up there that i don't think they can make a 3rd movie and have it at that level...

Its really sad, he was the perfect joker. They're not goin to be able to top this movie, Joker is the perfect Batman villain and Heath is the perfect Joker.

Originally posted by Myth
During the final Joker scene, I found myself getting really sad, because it seemed like the perfect set up for Joker and Bats to continue their battles, yet I knew it can never be now that Heath is dead. What are your thoughts? I don't see how a Batman villain will be able to top what Ledger did.

I agree, the only reason why i wanted to see Batman was because of Ledger, he did an amazing job. each time i saw him, i would get chills down my spine lol... The way he walk, talk, everthing about the character was perfect. i hope they dont do another joker movie, because they will ruin what ledger made out of him.

Originally posted by Devil King
Wouldn't it be nice if Heath's death was a Joker-esque publicity stunt and he'd showed up at the premiere -maybe in a body bag, like in the movie?

I doubt somethint like that would happen, and if it did I wouldnt mine. Heath ledger, was brillain in the movie, I doubt any would be able to top his performance as the Joker. Mainly because the Joker is a complex character, which is what makes him the best villian.

Okay, some people are being extreme and saying that because Dark Knight was so good Nolan is going to step down from making a third. Based upon the end of Dark Knight and from what I understand of Nolan's character he will still make a third, and make it with just as much effort as he put into the last two films. Ledger made a damn good Joker, the best I've seen, but if according to Nolan's grand plan the Joker appears in the third film then he will recast him and I think we can all trust him to get the best guy that's out there. Maybe he won't be as good as Ledger but we can't say he sucks before we sit down and watch it.

Yes, I'm highly disappointed actually, especially after that little end speech Joker gave about them having endless battles or something along those lines. I loved Ledger as the Joker, I can imagine a recast, though I doubt it'll be as good, though as thevapor said, we can trust Nolan to find someone.

There was couple of other people wanted to play the role of the joker before Heath got the part

It would be like The Crow sequels without Brandon Lee....should have just stopped.

I can see a recast, and Im sure the overall movie would be good, it just wouldnt have that special screen presence Ledger had.

They'll have to do it because not like the joker got killed off unlike with Tim burtons first batman film.

Originally posted by TheVapor
Okay, some people are being extreme and saying that because Dark Knight was so good Nolan is going to step down from making a third. Based upon the end of Dark Knight and from what I understand of Nolan's character he will still make a third, and make it with just as much effort as he put into the last two films. Ledger made a damn good Joker, the best I've seen, but if according to Nolan's grand plan the Joker appears in the third film then he will recast him and I think we can all trust him to get the best guy that's out there. Maybe he won't be as good as Ledger but we can't say he sucks before we sit down and watch it.

Good point. In Nolan We Trust.

I'm with the Vapor, I love Ledger's Joker, and I'm sad he died before his time and cannot give us another great performace, but we cannot blame the next actor who's gonna play it, It would be immature.

I coulda swore I read somewhere that Nolan did'nt wanna re-cast the joker.

Nolan will do the 3rd one with Bale to complete the set and they are both probably done after this.

Originally posted by K3VIL
I'm with the Vapor, I love Ledger's Joker, and I'm sad he died before his time and cannot give us another great performace, but we cannot blame the next actor who's gonna play it, It would be immature.

No one is blaming the other actors, Heath just did the best job possible for the role of the Joker and because he set the bar sooo high, it can't be topped. And it has nothing to do with someones immature level.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
No is blamming the other actors, Heath just did the best job possible for the role of the Joker and because he set the bar sooo high, it can't be topped. And it has nothing to do with someones immature level.
Misunderstood me, wasn't talking about anyone, it was a general affermation.You know Heath did the best, but who knows if another actor could do an equal performance?Obviously Ledger's portrayal would used to value the next actor.

Originally posted by Kazenji
There was couple of other people wanted to play the role of the joker before Heath got the part


Thats true. I'm glad none of them panned out..


Originally posted by Micheal_Myers
I coulda swore I read somewhere that Nolan did'nt wanna re-cast the joker.


Nolan did say that and we all know he is a man of his word.



Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Nolan will do the 3rd one with Bale to complete the set and they are both probably done after this.


I can see them back for at least two or more films after the third one.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Thats true. I'm glad none of them panned out..





Nolan did say that and we all know he is a man of his word.






I can see them back for at least two or more films after the third one.

Maybe.....but Nolan stated he's done after part 3 and if he goes than Bale is gone too.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Maybe.....but Nolan stated he's done after part 3 and if he goes than Bale is gone too.


But I don't necessarily think that Nolan and Bale are gone after three. They singlehandedly brought back Batman and with so many characters to chose from I find it very hard to believe that WB will want this to end in after Batman 3

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
But I don't necessarily think that Nolan and Bale are gone after three. They singlehandedly brought back Batman and with so many characters to chose from I find it very hard to believe that WB will want this to end in after Batman 3

We will see.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
We will see.


Well we have to wait until 2011 for the next one. I can wait

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Well we have to wait until 2011 for the next one. I can wait

Well that's bad timing for a Batman movie...

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Well that's bad timing for a Batman movie...

No not really I figure three years because it was three years in between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight so I figure that WB will use the same timetable for the next one. There's no need to rush out something and it turns out to be shiite, so you let Bale and Nolan and the rest do one or two, maybe three films over the next year or two, then it will be time to start talking about what villain will be in 3 and what the plot will be.

I think we are all underestimating Nolan.

Ledger was good.

Too good to not be in another batman movie.


what would i have done had I been Nolan? Here's what I think he did.

There are plenty of deleted scenes that end up on the cutting room floor right? When the DVD comes out, we'll have new scenes and dialogue and whatever right?

Well.....I would have taken a scene from The Dark Knight with the joker, and used it in the next one! Why not right? Think he would do something like that?

maybe it'd be another scene of the Joker talking to more mob bosses? Or simply talking to himself acting crazy or something.

Thoughts?

I think it's unfair to say that no one will be able to top Heath Ledger's Joker performance. If you remember, a lot of people were against Ledger even being The Joker when he was first announced, but he pulled it off beyond everyone's expectations.

In the end, Nolan went with who he felt was best for the role despite more likely choices like Paul Bettany and Crispin Glover. I have every confidence that Nolan can do it again, and whoever he picks will live up to the role.

Originally posted by Myth
I don't see how a Batman villain will be able to top what Ledger did.

Are you sure you're not just saying that because he's dead??

I dont care. I am still enjoying my time with the Dark Knight. I think, as long as the third movie retains it's mature influence. I will be happy with what ever Nolan and Bale give us.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
No not really I figure three years because it was three years in between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight so I figure that WB will use the same timetable for the next one. There's no need to rush out something and it turns out to be shiite, so you let Bale and Nolan and the rest do one or two, maybe three films over the next year or two, then it will be time to start talking about what villain will be in 3 and what the plot will be.



When all of the Marvel movies are planning to come out....that's not bad timing?

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
When all of the Marvel movies are planning to come out....that's not bad timing?

I prefer to thank of it like this: That will be the year of the comic book with what should be great movies.

It will be three years before the next one will be out. That should be enough time for us to be over Heath's death and we can accept someone else playing Joker. Yes, Heath has set the bar really high, but we can't retire the character with his long history because of it.
Idea: he's interred in Arkham, and while there plastic surgeons decide to see if they can repair his face. Joker plays a joke on them, and his face gets messed up even more just to amuse himself. That could help in covering how someone else has been cast for the part. And maybe he shouldn't be the main baddie, but he's pulling strings on the outside from his cell.

How about another Aussie for the part - Guy Pearce, the star of Christopher Nolan's 'Memento?'

It could work, hows his acting?

Looks like a similar facial structure.

Maybe for another franchise, but certainly not this one.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Joker return as a different actor. As long as the actor has talent and follows the template that was set for the Joker's character in the Dark Knight.

I just don't see how anyone else can disappear into the character like Heath did. I have seen this movie five times and I still can't see Heath Ledger in the film.

i feel that way about daniel day lewis. You're right, he did a good job at immersing himself entirely into the character.

Ledger can be recast for the 3rd film. It has happen before in other movies, and it can happen here also. There are plenty of actors with talent that can pull off the Joker. Ledger was not the end all, be all Joker. Dont get me wrong, he did amazing, but I belive if the Joker can be in a 3rd movie, He can be recast.

Originally posted by Joker1237
Ledger can be recast for the 3rd film. It has happen before in other movies, and it can happen here also. There are plenty of actors with talent that can pull off the Joker. Ledger was not the end all, be all Joker. Dont get me wrong, he did amazing, but I belive if the Joker can be in a 3rd movie, He can be recast.

I can't think of a successful recast in a major role though (outside of Bond of course).

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I just don't see how anyone else can disappear into the character like Heath did. I have seen this movie five times and I still can't see Heath Ledger in the film.

I can't either. You think of him maybe in between the Joker scenes, but when he's on screen he's literally the Joker and Heath Ledger no more. Recasting would not only be pointless, but would piss off a lot of people. And with the respect Nolan had for Heath & the way he talks about Heath being such a good friend & actor, he doesn't even plan to do so, and I'm glad about that.

Bond did great in there recast(Out of 20 plus movies, a few failed, but hey most were pretty good)

I sure other movies had great recast, not grade A movies of couse.

Roots had a great recast with Kinta Kunta, We had young 20 year old Kinta Kunta, and than the 30-40 year old Kinta Kunta for the 3rd movie.

Well, Heath's Joker can't be recast, that's fact. Anyone who they get will be a letdown & come off as a poor imitation.

I can't see what actor would actually WANT that responsibility of "re-portraying" Nolan's Joker.

Everyone respects what he did a little too much to just say "Hey, Nolan, how about Heath's Joker? He was so awesome...can I play him?"

Originally posted by Da Joker
Well, Heath's Joker can't be recast, that's fact. Anyone who they get will be a letdown & come off as a poor imitation.

maybe not "poor" but not nearly as good.

Originally posted by Myth
I can't think of a successful recast in a major role though (outside of Bond of course).
Wasn't Heath Ledger a recast...

This is a restart....

Exactly Heath wasn't a recast and his Joker was completely different from Jack's. Unless the Joker is going to go through some kind of drastic change that is explained on screen there is no way IMO to recast him. The recast of Rachel Dawes only worked because Katie Holmes and Maggie IMO sucked about the same and there's no one who I have ever heard of who was really a fan of that character enough to care that she was changed...and she died so who gives crap? but recasting the Joker would be a whole different deal. The person would have to play the character almost exactly as Heath did for the continuity to believable and to get a similar response and that will never happen IMO. The best they could do is a poor imitation and I'd rather he didn't show up than to get a second rate Joker myself.

I'm sadder about the fact that Heath isn't around to see the appreciation that Batman fans have for his portrayal of The Joker in TDK.

When I heard about his death back in January I was gutted, even more so after watching TDK last Saturday. To think this fine actor won't be starring in another movie, let alone a Batman movie, is a really sad fact. And he was only 28...

If Nolan decides to recast Joker's character for a third Batman movie then fair play to him, providing he gets it right. I think he's done excellent with both Begins and TDK that I would trust him on handling the third movie.

If Nolan decides that there is no need for Joker's character to be in the third movie, it won't be that big a deal for me. There are plenty of Bat villains around to make a couple of more movies.

In loving memory of Heath, and to mark what a monumental performance he gave, i dont think that - even with a 3rd movie - they should re-cast the character, infact maybe they should leave Joker out of the third, im not a fan of having multiple prominent baddies in a flick anyway.

Not at all.For a MOVIE,you dont want to see the same villain in a sequal again.Sure it worked for superman II but that was a rare exception that worked well since Lex is just a normal looking guy.For a tv show it would be great to have him in more shows but for a movie,you want to see different villains and and avoid doing the Burton/Schumacher thing by using two villains.

Well it seems Nolan had failed in regards to 2 villians in BOTH Batman movies,

movie 1, Scarecrow and Al Ghul. Boom 2 movies.

Movie II, we had Scarecrow again, Joker, Twoface. Thats 3 villians.

People say used the 1 villian thing, but when Nolan does not obey that rule, they seem to "Forget".

Al Ghul was just brief at the beginning though.He was so brief dying at the beginning,they shouldnt have even botherd with him.I always thought he was unnessary to be in the film.

For Dark Knight that was just to show us that Scarecrow was still around as a villan was my impression because he pretty much vanished at that point never to be seen again after they showed him.Another unnessary thing on Nolans part I would say.With Two Face,we didnt see him till close to the end of the movie when he went bad.For most of the movie,we just saw the build up to Two Face.We didnt see Two Face till close to the end.Most of it was Bruce and Harvey Dents friendship together.Something that was neccessary to build up to Two Face which I assume we will see more of as a villan in the next film.I dont believe for a second that he is dead.It would be pretty stupid for Nolan to build him up like that just to have him die.I dont see Nolan pulling a Burton on us by killing off one of his villains after being in the film for so long.Thats a Burton/Schumacher thing.

I thought it was great having him in the story, but we all think differently. I really liked the way he was depicted in Begins.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Al Ghul was just brief at the beginning though.He was so brief dying at the beginning,they shouldnt have even botherd with him.I always thought he was unnessary to be in the film.

For Dark Knight that was just to show us that Scarecrow was still around as a villan was my impression because he pretty much vanished at that point never to be seen again after they showed him.Another unnessary thing on Nolans part I would say.With Two Face,we didnt see him till close to the end of the movie when he went bad.For most of the movie,we just saw the build up to Two Face.We didnt see Two Face till close to the end.Most of it was Bruce and Harvey Dents friendship together.Something that was neccessary to build up to Two Face which I assume we will see more of as a villan in the next film.I dont believe for a second that he is dead.It would be pretty stupid for Nolan to build him up like that just to have him die.I dont see Nolan pulling a Burton on us by killing off one of his villains after being in the film for so long.Thats a Burton/Schumacher thing.

Oh the other thing I wanted to add on to this joker that I also wanted to say is as long as its done the way Nolan did it like having Harvery Dent throughout most the film and then having him become the villain like he did at the end-as long as he's NOT dead and is alive in the sequal and we have him in that movie,then Im fine with the way Nolan did it.You just cant do it the way Burton and Schumacher did having them team up like that and be partners the whole movie the way they did it.as i said,thought the ras al ghoul thing was unnessary and same with scarecrow in the dark knight.they have their faults to but they at least didnt have the teamup thing like the burton/schumacher films did so thats acceptable the way Nolan did it.

I'm glad that Nolan won't be replacing Heath's Joker, it just wouldn't seem right to me.

Someone did mention having Harley Quinn be in the next movie and be inspired by the Joker's actions, so she terrorizes the city. Although that's a good idea, I don't know if Harley could work without the Joker....but I love the character so it'd be nice to see.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Al Ghul was just brief at the beginning though.He was so brief dying at the beginning,they shouldnt have even botherd with him.I always thought he was unnessary to be in the film.

For Dark Knight that was just to show us that Scarecrow was still around as a villan was my impression because he pretty much vanished at that point never to be seen again after they showed him.Another unnessary thing on Nolans part I would say.With Two Face,we didnt see him till close to the end of the movie when he went bad.For most of the movie,we just saw the build up to Two Face.We didnt see Two Face till close to the end.Most of it was Bruce and Harvey Dents friendship together.Something that was neccessary to build up to Two Face which I assume we will see more of as a villan in the next film.I dont believe for a second that he is dead.It would be pretty stupid for Nolan to build him up like that just to have him die.I dont see Nolan pulling a Burton on us by killing off one of his villains after being in the film for so long.Thats a Burton/Schumacher thing.

That was a body double. It was not the real Al Ghul. The real one had the plot useing Scarecrow's gas to flood the city.

Oh...I see what he was referring to now and yes, that was a fake Al Ghul. Not a body double, but someone who was pretending to be Ra's as I guess he does it so he has a fall guy.

I'm sad that Heath isn't around to reprise the role, but like many of you have said, I'm also glad that Nolan won't recast the role and tarnish Ledger's work in The Dark Knight. Also I'm sad that he's not around to recieve all the praise he's been getting.

Yeah, he's become like...a Legend, and he's not even here to see it. But I know he's smiling down on us as we speak.

Originally posted by Da Joker
Yeah, he's become like...a Legend, and he's not even here to see it. But I know he's smiling down on us as we speak.

http://i3.bebo.com/040a/8/mediuml/2008/05/08/16/6112030431a7679033880ml.jpg

How creepy and awesome.

This movie is less than a month old and w're all casting absolute certainty over what should happen next. The media is even following suit...which shoudl show how stupid they really are. That's the sad part? Two-Face might be alive, he might not be. The producers have said it was all done with intent. Producers have said they'd rather Catwoman wasn't in the film. Riddler might have been set up in The Dark Knight to be the next villain, via Engel. It can go on and on. But if anything from the last two Batman movies have shown us anything, it's that we'll all be happy and nothing we expect to happen in regards to casting will happen and we'll al e pleased despite it. I hope Depp doesn't get the Riddler; I hope Hoffman doesn't get the Penguin; I hope Jolie doesn't get Catwoman; I hope doesn't get. This is, I can honestly say, the first time I have not been let down by a film maker in over a decade and the first time a film maker has far surpassed my expectations; and they were the same film maker. I leave the franchise in Mr. Nolan's capable hands. I'd love to see some excellent characters get their time in the sun. And those characters, like Man Bat or Deadshot have gotten it. I hope that trend continues for characters like Penguin or Clayface or Hugo Strange or Black Mask; in the Gotham Knight-type handling of the franchise. And I hope that Ledger's stellar performance is only paid tribute to in a Gotham Knight handling of a full-length story featuring his scared, apathetic and deranged Joker. That pretty much sums up my desire to express my thoughts on Batman. So I'll take my leave. Cheers. See you in another 3 years. (Or at least 2 years, when the fangasm makes a difference.)

Two Batman villains in a movie is not just a Burton Shumacher thing. Both the Nolan films have had two villains in them. Nolan just told stories better with them. But two villains is not necessarily a bad thing.

Unless you're Sam Raimi...

Originally posted by Da Joker
Unless you're Sam Raimi...
Didn't he have three? And again, the difference is being able to tell good stories. Begins and TDK interwove the stories of both villains better than the other Batman movies did and just had better written stories in general. Spiderman 3 was crappy because he just tried to cram em all in there...Venom wound up getting nothing.

If he couldn't handle three, I'm doubt he could even handle two villains. Either way, I hate Sam Raimi, especially after the injustice done to Venom.