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This is Cassandra before she learned to speak.

And dammit, I meant Cassandra Cain.

Cassandra Nova wins. peaches

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Cassandra Nova wins. peaches



i'll edit the title...

Thanks.

Probably team 2

Batdevil/Dareman FTW.

Daredevil is near metahuman

Cassandra Cain is metahuman in all but name anyway. She weaves between bullets from close range -- after they're fired -- for shits and giggles.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Cassandra Cain is metahuman in all but name anyway. She weaves between bullets from close range -- after they're fired -- for shits and giggles.


Daredevil has batted away bullets for shits and giggles and even kept up with a advanced sniper bullet.

To even dodged another time a sniper bullet from as the bullet itself was in close range.

I give this to Batman/Daredevil IMO 6-7/10

Dodging sniper bullets from inches away from her head was part of Batgirl's regular training under David Cain... when she was a little girl. (I'm not saying definitively either one is faster (although I would take Batgirl)) all I said was that for all intents and purposes Batgirl is metahuman.

The only thing that tips the scales in this match imo is probably Batman's gadgets.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Dodging sniper bullets from inches away from her head was part of Batgirl's regular training under David Cain... when she was a little girl. (I'm not saying definitively either one is faster (although I would take Batgirl)) all I said was that for all intents and purposes Batgirl is metahuman.

The only thing that tips the scales in this match imo is probably Batman's gadgets.

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfjv7.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfyq0.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfcb2.jpg

Meh... you've posted those before... the whole sequence is longer... and they're more pseudotalking than seriously fighting.

There's also the time he's the one coughing up blood after sparring, or when she's just gotten her body reading ability back and he can't lay a hand on her, or they're trippy battle-chase where in direct confrontation she seems to have advantage, he's using his gadgets and she seems to just want a smooch...

Only one of them has a legitimate one-on-one win on Shiva... because no one counts Jeph Loeb. In my humble opinion I think she's better in pure H2H... but I'm sure you don't...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh... you've posted those before... the whole sequence is longer... and they're more pseudotalking than seriously fighting.

There's also the time he's the one coughing up blood after sparring, or when she's just gotten her body reading ability back and he can't lay a hand on her, or they're trippy battle-chase where in direct confrontation she seems to have advantage, he's using his gadgets and she seems to just want a smooch...

Only one of them has a legitimate one-on-one win on Shiva... because no one counts Jeph Loeb. In my humble opinion I think she's better in pure H2H... but I'm sure you don't...

First of all, in their sparring match, Batman was basically one-arming it the entire fight, and landed a modified "non-lethal" killing blow (counter-intuitive, I know) on her that stopped her in her tracks. Retrospectively speaking, he could've killed her in that fight.

And second of all, you never have a "humble" opinion... uhuh

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh... you've posted those before... the whole sequence is longer... and they're more pseudotalking than seriously fighting.

There's also the time he's the one coughing up blood after sparring, or when she's just gotten her body reading ability back and he can't lay a hand on her, or they're trippy battle-chase where in direct confrontation she seems to have advantage, he's using his gadgets and she seems to just want a smooch...

Only one of them has a legitimate one-on-one win on Shiva... because no one counts Jeph Loeb. In my humble opinion I think she's better in pure H2H... but I'm sure you don't...
Cassandra Cain better than Batman?

haermm2

Originally posted by batdude123
First of all, in their sparring match, Batman was basically one-arming it the entire fight, and landed a modified "non-lethal" killing blow (counter-intuitive, I know) on her that stopped her in her tracks. Retrospectively speaking, he could've killed her in that fight.

And second of all, you never have a "humble" opinion... uhuh Which sparring match are you referring to? If you're still talking about those graveyard scans you posted they're not really "fighting" or even "sparring" they're more "talking" in Cassandra's language, having just met. Batman's also not in peak condition of course, with his arms messed up, but then I don't really consider it a "fight" anyway... so I don't think it matters.

My opinions are always humble. doped

Potentially, she's probably better. But I'd give Batman the nod over her.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Which sparring match are you referring to? If you're still talking about those graveyard scans you posted they're not really "fighting" or even "sparring" they're more "talking" in Cassandra's language, having just met. Batman's also not in peak condition of course, with his arms messed up, but then I don't really consider it a "fight" anyway... so I don't think it matters.

My opinions are always humble. doped

I'm talking about their sparring match in the bat cave.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh... you've posted those before... the whole sequence is longer... and they're more pseudotalking than seriously fighting.

There's also the time he's the one coughing up blood after sparring, or when she's just gotten her body reading ability back and he can't lay a hand on her, or they're trippy battle-chase where in direct confrontation she seems to have advantage, he's using his gadgets and she seems to just want a smooch...

Only one of them has a legitimate one-on-one win on Shiva... because no one counts Jeph Loeb. In my humble opinion I think she's better in pure H2H... but I'm sure you don't...


IIRC Bats coughed blood but Cass was knocked down. Coughing blood is not a win.

Originally posted by batdude123
I'm talking about their sparring match in the bat cave. Which comic was this by the by?Originally posted by Daredevil1
IIRC Bats coughed blood but Cass was knocked down. Coughing blood is not a win. You recall incorrectly. She was tired from the sparring session, leading to Batman chastising her stamina, but she wasn't "knocked down." Neither looked injured in any way externally. I didn't say it was a "win," anyway.

This seems to have become a Batgirl vs Batman and not a Batgirl/Shiva vs Batman/DD.

Anyways, on the BG vs BM, it depends on several factors.

The first is if it is a pure H2H contest, or if it is a fight.

If it is a fight then BMan will win every single darn time. Every time. Bgirl will have no counter against Bman when he wants to take her out, by any means possible. This is because in a fight, anything goes ....which includes strategy, includes gadgets, and any and everything that can count towards the fight.

However, if it is a H2H engagement, then it is a sort of fight that is limited to only physical fighting skills. In such a case, Bgirl then gets a major advantage over the Bman, and she will win.

Now, I know that someone posted 3 scans of Bgirl (before she became Bgirl) and Bman on the roof, and she is jumping around and cannot land a blow. That was NOT a fight ...I have that comic. Bman was going after Cain (Bgirl's father), and he met Cassie. That sequence is them TALKING. That was when Cassie could only talk through movement, and that is Bgirl and Bman talking ....not fighting ....talking.

There are other scans (the best are in the Batgirl graphic novels ....well, more like compilations of her comics) that show what happens when Bgirl gets back her ability to 'read' people.

Bman is not even able to TOUCH her when she gets her abilities back. She is even dodging with a smile on her face ....perfect ease. It is almost sad.

In that same series, Bgirl (before she gets back her 'reading'a bilities from Shiva), asks Bman how long it would take before she would get as good as he was. Bman says 10 years, maybe more. However, after meeting with Shiva (I wonder what Shiva did ....), and she was back to her old self, Cassie was dodging Bruce's moves like he was moving in slo-mo.

As for dodging sniper bullets and all that (and I am bringing in DareDevil now)....Cassie was doing that as a kid. She quite literally weaves in-between bullets. Thus just because DD can do that doesn't mean it is Cool Beans for Cassie (goodness, even Batman has dodged a sniper's bullet by FEELING the slight over-pressure of air as it travels towards him).

As for the person who said that DD is NEAR metahuman, I have always said that the entire Bat-family is a running joke in DC when they are called 'peak humans.' The scans say different.

There are some that show Bgirl BLITZING (real blitzing people), which is quite funny. In others she is taking out entire rooms of people, which is nothing special BTW (even Robin can do that). However the 'metahuman' part is when she is recorded by some 3-letter agency, and they state that her strength levels APPEARED 2 times human, and her speed 4 times.

Anyways, back to the real thread: who would win, Bgirl/Shiva or Bman/DD.

Again, it depends ....is this a fight (as in anything goes), or is it a H2H duel?

If it is a fight, then BMan/DD takes the prize.

If it is a H2H fight, then Shiva/Bgirl wins (and knowing Shiva, she will probably be going for a kill ....not on Batman, they have some sort of 'professional respect,' but DD would be a good prize to add to her collection of masters she has killed).

Originally posted by spetznaz
Now, I know that someone posted 3 scans of Bgirl (before she became Bgirl) and Bman on the roof, and she is jumping around and cannot land a blow. That was NOT a fight ...I have that comic. Bman was going after Cain (Bgirl's father), and he met Cassie. That sequence is them TALKING. That was when Cassie could only talk through movement, and that is Bgirl and Bman talking ....not fighting ....talking. I thought I'd compile the illustrated version.
Originally posted by spetznaz
There are other scans (the best are in the Batgirl graphic novels ....well, more like compilations of her comics) that show what happens when Bgirl gets back her ability to 'read' people.

Bman is not even able to TOUCH her when she gets her abilities back. She is even dodging with a smile on her face ....perfect ease. It is almost sad.

In that same series, Bgirl (before she gets back her 'reading'a bilities from Shiva), asks Bman how long it would take before she would get as good as he was. Bman says 10 years, maybe more. However, after meeting with Shiva (I wonder what Shiva did ....), and she was back to her old self, Cassie was dodging Bruce's moves like he was moving in slo-mo. http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3961/batgirl09pg20ws2.th.jpghttp://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5812/batgirl09pg21og7.th.jpg
Originally posted by spetznaz
As for dodging sniper bullets and all that (and I am bringing in DareDevil now)....Cassie was doing that as a kid. She quite literally weaves in-between bullets. Thus just because DD can do that doesn't mean it is Cool Beans for Cassie (goodness, even Batman has dodged a sniper's bullet by FEELING the slight over-pressure of air as it travels towards him). http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8209/batgirl0221011zc5.th.jpg
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9512/batgirl13pg01ln5.th.jpghttp://img211.imageshack.us/img211/483/batgirl13pg02eq2.th.jpghttp://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9513/batgirl13pg03nl4.th.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8780/batgirl01717fa2.th.jpghttp://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5388/batgirl01718oy5.th.jpg http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7787/05vd0.th.jpg

Originally posted by spetznaz
As for the person who said that DD is NEAR metahuman, I have always said that the entire Bat-family is a running joke in DC when they are called 'peak humans.' The scans say different.

There are some that show Bgirl BLITZING (real blitzing people), which is quite funny. In others she is taking out entire rooms of people, which is nothing special BTW (even Robin can do that). However the 'metahuman' part is when she is recorded by some 3-letter agency, and they state that her strength levels APPEARED 2 times human, and her speed 4 times. http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5173/batgirlannual1pg22db2.th.jpg http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4306/batgirl14pg02ey7.th.jpg

Thanks Xmarksthespot.

As always, scans always do a better job than words. Much appreciation.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Which comic was this by the by? You recall incorrectly. She was tired from the sparring session, leading to Batman chastising her stamina, but she wasn't "knocked down." Neither looked injured in any way externally. I didn't say it was a "win," anyway.

My bad. I thought you were trying to imply that or that she had the advantage. Your right she did look tired. But that too was a sparring match and Batman clearly grabbed her and unmasked her as well. Stalemate with neither gaining an edge on one another.

Batman 50 was also a stalemate. Yes Batman did use weapons but he also didn't want to fight seeming like he was holding back. Either way again no real major advantage for either.

I think the fight would have been better if you had made the teams Shiva/Batman and Cain/DD or DD/Shiva Batman/Cain. To me, it's seems rather one sided if not.