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Opening the gates of hell. Punisher vs Cyclops, Collosus and Wolverine.

Punisher gets 3 weeks prep and help from Stu Clark.
The fights takes place in a big factory. The factory is also surrounded by other factories with civilian workers inside.

punisher. duh.

for godsakes, he beat the goddamn MU, you think 3 pathetic xmen are gonna give him trouble?

Originally posted by Starscream M
punisher. duh.

for godsakes, he beat the goddamn MU, you think 3 pathetic xmen are gonna give him trouble?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
this is bordering on spite, you gave Punisher Stu Clark ferchrissakes.

As in Rampage right?

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
X-Men Stomps.....

Don't think so. Punisher has beaten Wolverine without prep. Collosus does have clas100 strength and durability but you're forgetting that Punsiher gets help from Stu Clrak, the guy was able to make a suit that gave Punsiher class 10 strength in 15mins, what can he do in 3 weeks? Also Stu Clark has a version of The War Machine armour. :/ Stu Clark has lots of hi-tch weapons and he could even tailor make them to put down Collosus.

Cyclops stratgey is a problem but Pun has the advantage in that he knows the area and has had 3 weeks.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
As in Rampage right?

Yeah.
Originally posted by Starscream M
this is bordering on spite, you gave Punisher Stu Clark ferchrissakes.

Don't know if thats sarcasm but without Stu the only way he could possibly win is with a nuke or somehow getting Collosus to revert back to human form.

are the x-men out in the open or in their base of operations?

Originally posted by Raoul
are the x-men out in the open or in their base of operations?

Er they are in factory. They have never been there before.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er they are in factory. They have never been there before. what kind of factory?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er they are in factory. They have never been there before.

they're stuck there for three weeks? or after three weeks they get transported there?

Originally posted by Starscream M
what kind of factory?

All I know is that its very big, there is loads of room to move around. I don't know how big factories can be but the whole idea is that its going to take effort to search everywhere and its not like you can just run to one end and back.

It has lots of machinery some of it working, some of it isn't. Think Terminator 2.



Originally posted by Raoul
they're stuck there for three weeks? or after three weeks they get transported there?

They turn up at the factory and realise they are in a trap and have to come up with a plan on the fly.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
All I know is that its very big, there is loads of room to move around. I don't know how big factories can be but the whole idea is that its going to take effort to search everywhere and its not like you can just run to one end and back.

It has lots of machinery some of it working, some of it isn't. Think Terminator 2.


well, certain factories have a lot of dangerous materials and explosives...other factories are harmless. It makes quite a big difference.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
All I know is that its very big, there is loads of room to move around. I don't know how big factories can be but the whole idea is that its going to take effort to search everywhere and its not like you can just run to one end and back.

It has lots of machinery some of it working, some of it isn't. Think Terminator 2.





They turn up at the factory and realise they are in a trap and have to come up with a plan on the fly.

hmm, if frank has enough intel, he could take it, sure...

the collateral damage taking down colossus would be extensive, though, and you can never keep logan down...

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, certain factories have a lot of dangerous materials and explosives...other factories are harmless. It makes quite a big difference.

Well its basically a machine factory, like one that builds cars. I dont know aboiut chemicals but I guess if you blew up one of the robots that might cause an explosion, but apart from that im not thinking it has any partciuaarly dangerous chemicals like acid, just mainly machines.

Originally posted by Raoul
hmm, if frank has enough intel, he couuld take it, sure...

Bbbbbbboring!

Originally posted by Raoul

the collateral damage taking down colossus would be extensive, though, and you can never keep logan down...

Im prettys ure with the tech he can get his hands down he could put down either.

However as you know it wont be easy. Eventhough Pun has prep Cyclops is still a master strategist. Cyclops, Collosus and Wolverine are old-school X men who have trained for situations like this and know each other better than other X-men.

oops double post.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Bbbbbbboring!



Im prettys ure with the tech he can get his hands down he could put down either.

However as you know it wont be easy. Eventhough Pun has prep Cyclops is still a master strategist. Cyclops, Collosus and Wolverine are old-school X men who have trained for situations like this and know each other better than other X-men.

oops double post.

how could he take down colossus with anything bar a low yield nuke?

Originally posted by Raoul
how could he take down colossus with anything bar a low yield nuke?

Well for starters im sure that Collosus is still vulnerable to class 100 punches. If Stu can make a class 10 suit in 15mins im pretty sure he can make one in 3 weeks. Also didn't Collosus get hurt badly by riptide?

As for other ways im not sure. One way would be to get him to turn human if he captures one of the other Xmen.

Im also prettys sure that Stu will hack files and get more information on Collosus's powers and come up with something. I dont know how he would do it but since hes made out of metal im thinking a magnetic based weapon would work. I think Stu was able to find a way to weaken Wonder Man so he does stand a good chance of doing this to Collosus....also Stu Clark has War Machine armour im pretty sure some of the weapons on that could at least give Collosus a hard time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well for starters im sure that Collosus is still vulnerable to class 100 punches. If Stu can make a class 10 suit in 15mins im pretty sure he can make one in 3 weeks. Also didn't Collosus get hurt badly by riptide?

As for other ways im not sure. One way would be to get him to turn human if he captures one of the other Xmen.

Im also prettys sure that Stu will hack files and get more information on Collosus's powers and come up with something. I dont know how he would do it but since hes made out of metal im thinking a magnetic based weapon would work. I think Stu was able to find a way to weaken Wonder Man so he does stand a good chance of doing this to Collosus....also Stu Clark has War Machine armour im pretty sure some of the weapons on that could at least give Collosus a hard time.

do you have any proof that he could make a suit thats class 100? i mean, a class 10 suit is one thing, but is there anything to indicate he has the tech to make one thats class 100?

he was pierced, thats true, but that was pre upgrade...

hack what files?

magnetics is one option, but that's only a temporary solution, unless he can warp colossus somehow...

he has a fully equipped war machine suit?

Originally posted by Raoul
do you have any proof that he could make a suit thats class 100? i mean, a class 10 suit is one thing, but is there anything to indicate he has the tech to make one thats class 100?

The only proof I have is that he made a class 10 suit in 15mins. Now im aware that he might not be able to but theres a good chance that he can do something greater with more time.


Originally posted by Raoul
he was pierced, thats true, but that was pre upgrade...

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Raoul

hack what files?

Man im pretty sure there are organizations who collect information on superhumans and their powers. Hell wouldn't Xavier have some.

Originally posted by Raoul

magnetics is one option, but that's only a temporary solution, unless he can warp colossus somehow...

Hmm he could use BFR. Wether he could warp him im not sure but im pretty sure he could create something to give him a hard time

Originally posted by Raoul

he has a fully equipped war machine suit?

Yup.

Theres also the option of forcing him to turn human if he captures one of the other two.

hacking the xavier mansion has never been easy, not saying he can't do it, but the only 'this is how you take character x down' files in any detail on the x-men were the xavier protocols, and they don't exist anymore, iirc... unless there's another copy...

colossus wouldnt turn human, he's not the kind to believe someone who's trying to kill him...

even with the war machine suit, he's better off trying to divide them... if he tried to take them as a group, he'd go down hard imo...

So essentially this thread is "Can you give someone enough technology in 3 weeks to beat an unprepared Cyclops, Wolverine and Colossus."

Fun.

Originally posted by Raoul
hacking the xavier mansion has never been easy, not saying he can't do it, but the only 'this is how you take character x down' files in any detail on the x-men were the xavier protocols, and they don't exist anymore, iirc... unless there's another copy...


Yes but you dont need to have this-is how-you-take down a Collosus file neccesarily you just need detailed information. Its like you could find out alot about somebody by knowing their medical history but medical files are not created

Im sure Tony Starks would have something.

Anyway its debateable wether he would be able to do it. Maybe, maybe not but he would most likely try.

Originally posted by Raoul

colossus wouldnt turn human, he's not the kind to believe someone who's trying to kill him...

He would do it if he thought turning human would save somebodies life. I think he turned human once because he thought if he collided with another Xmen they would die.

Originally posted by Raoul

even with the war machine suit, he's better off trying to divide them... if he tried to take them as a group, he'd go down hard imo...

He would try to split them thats very likely.

This thread is a classic......

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
This thread is a classic......

Im actually doing a pretty good job of making a case.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes but you dont need to have this-is how-you-take down a Collosus file neccesarily you just need detailed information. Its like you could find out alot about somebody by knowing their medical history but medical files are not created

Im sure Tony Starks would have something.

Anyway its debateable wether he would be able to do it. Maybe, maybe not but he would most likely try.

there's very little actual data about colossus' powers that even we as readers would know... we're told its organic metal similar to osmium, but thats it...



he'd just been flung at shadowcat by danger, and shadowcat wouldnt turn intangible, as she was working on cyclops to try and wake him up... unless he can replicate similar circumstances, i don't see it happening...



for me thats his only real way of taking a majority...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im actually doing a pretty good job of making a case. yeah well, it aint a hard case considering you gave Frank Stu Clark

And let me guess it's so easy to hack Tonys computers right?

Originally posted by Raoul
there's very little actual data about colossus' powers that even we as readers would know... we're told its organic metal similar to osmium, but thats it...

Ok but I still think Magnetism would work on his metal organic or not. I would not be even suprised if there was news footage of him fighting in public where which Stu could use to gauge his abilties.

To be quite honest I dont think you need that much information to gauage Collosus powers, they are not that complicated.


Originally posted by Raoul

he'd just been flung at shadowcat by danger, and shadowcat wouldnt turn intangible, as she was working on cyclops to try and wake him up... unless he can replicate similar circumstances, i don't see it happening...


Yes I know, it does not have to be those exact circumstance. If he captures one of them and threatens to kill them he could force Collosus to turn human.

Originally posted by Raoul

for me thats his only real way of taking a majority...

That very reasonable.


Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
And let me guess it's so easy to hack Tonys computers right?

1. Im not arguing that he can do it for certain but its a reasonable possibility. Hell some 'ordinary' actually managed to disable Iron Mans armour and almost destro Stark Tower.

2. Is that it? There are lots of other points that I have made that are perfectly reasonable, why are you picking and choosing points?

Originally posted by Starscream M
punisher. duh.

for godsakes, he beat the goddamn MU, you think 3 pathetic xmen are gonna give him trouble?
That was a what if comic it really never happend

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but I still think Magnetism would work on his metal organic or not. I would not be even suprised if there was news footage of him fighting in public where which Stu could use to gauge his abilties.

To be quite honest I dont think you need that much information to gauage Collosus powers, they are not that complicated.

magnetism is a given, its always been a constant. its just a question of actually setting up the requisite tech...



its cyclops and logan, though, either man has a few options, and peter would know this...

Originally posted by Raoul
magnetism is a given, its always been a constant. its just a question of actually setting up the requisite tech...

Thats true. We can't be a hundred percent certain that he can but he has an impressive range of tech and invention under his belt. He also gave Frank a gun that was capable of killing Rhino, so that another option that gun might work. Rhino maybe a jobber but he can take class 100 shots.


Originally posted by Raoul

its cyclops and logan, though, either man has a few options, and peter would know this...

I dunno man I think your giving them the benefit of the doubt. He may decide not to. What would a Koed Cyclops do with a gun to his head?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dunno man I think your giving them the benefit of the doubt. He may decide not to. What would a Koed Cyclops do with a gun to his head?

if he's unconscious, peter might not be able to tell if he's alive or dead, so i don't see him taking that chance...

Originally posted by Raoul
if he's unconscious, peter might not be able to tell if he's alive or dead, so i don't see him taking that chance...

I don't understand how thats relevant.

Oh and on a sidenote. I checked the issue concerning The War Machine armour because there is an element of doubt and I dont want to be a hypocrite.

To cut along story short Stu had everything single part of the war machine armour except for the head Sunset Bain had it. Bains pulled a gun on him and forced him to tell her where the rest of the armour was and Stu told her.

It does not state that she took the rest of the amour but I know she had the head but im assuming she took it because shes not going to leave it lying around for Stu to hide it again...unless she thinks hes thats stupid.

Hours later Stu tells Punisher where she is and Punisher kills her. Stu asks if she had anything on her but Punsiher asks Stu something else instead, so we dont know for certain wether he got it back.

Im assuming he obtained the War Machine armour because:

1. He killed her, if she did take the rest of the armour shes not going to tell anybody else where it is.
2. Stu Clark is an expert at locating stuff and he wanted the armour bad. ( was able to locate and find storage for a shitload of SHIELD tech, not sure how long it was but at most it was weeks)
3. He stated that he knew her very well in fact knew she would be dining at a restaurant at a certain time and told Punisher to go there and kill her.

As far as I know this issue was not rasied again in the series (dont have any issues after that but I know the other issues are to do with Jigsaw) but im assuming that with his capabilities he would have found it by now.

Failing that Stu gave Frank a gun that put Rhino through a wall and even destoryed the hide that was on his chest. Rhinos hide is extremley durable. The gun was also capable of killing Rhino.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I don't understand how thats relevant.

cos its going to take a hell of alot to get peter to revert back to human form...

i'm not disputing the war machine thing, tbh...

Originally posted by Raoul
cos its going to take a hell of alot to get peter to revert back to human form...

Yeah but I dont understand why he wouldn't if he knew that if he didn't Cyclops would get a bullet to the head.


Originally posted by Raoul

i'm not disputing the war machine thing, tbh...

Yeah I know I just dont want to give the impression that im dstorting facts. You may read the issue and see things are not as clear cut as I made it to be.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah but I dont understand why he wouldn't if he knew that if he didn't Cyclops would get a bullet to the head.

if cyclops is conscious, he'll be telling pete what to do, if he's unconscious, peter won't know if he's alive or dead, so probably wouldnt take that chance... just how i see it...

and he could use the old 'bounce the beam off colossus' trick...

also, peter's transformation is damn near instantaneous, if frank turns the gun on him, peter should be able to get back to metal quickly...



its cool, to be honest i think those 3 x-men could take war machine anyways...

Without Weapons, Colossus would solo War Machine H2H.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So essentially this thread is "Can you give someone enough technology in 3 weeks to beat an unprepared Cyclops, Wolverine and Colossus."

Fun.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So essentially this thread is "Can you give someone enough technology in 3 weeks to beat an unprepared Cyclops, Wolverine and Colossus."

Fun.

No its not. Theres a reason why Stu Clark gives Punisher the tech to hunt down criminals instead of him doing it himself



Originally posted by Raoul
if cyclops is conscious, he'll be telling pete what to do, if he's unconscious, peter won't know if he's alive or dead, so probably wouldnt take that chance... just how i see it...

and he could use the old 'bounce the beam off colossus' trick...

If hes Koed how is knowing wether Cyclops is alive or dead relevant? Punisher puts a gun to his head and orders Pete to turn, either Pete turns or Cyclops gets his brains on the floor.

Originally posted by Raoul

also, peter's transformation is damn near instantaneous, if frank turns the gun on him, peter should be able to get back to metal quickly...


Thats true but he turned in time against an ordinary guy, not somebody whos managed to shoot DD and Spiderman.

Originally posted by Raoul

its cool, to be honest i think those 3 x-men could take war machine anyways...

I think so to, but would Frank Castle just put on the War Machine armour and just try to blast them.....nope. He would try to pick them off.

Hes already used sonics to beat DD, he would use something similar for Wolverine, try to snipe Cyclops and he would have to come up with something special for Collosus.

To be quite honest with you I don't think he would use that unless hes desperate.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If hes Koed how is knowing wether Cyclops is alive or dead relevant? Punisher puts a gun to his head and orders Pete to turn, either Pete turns or Cyclops gets his brains on the floor.

and how would pete know scott is still alive? he's going to take frank at his word and likely get himself killed?

and if there's one thing cyclops has taught the x-men, its that the mission > all. peter knows cyclops would expect him to take down frank if scott was incapacitated...



he changed after the bullets were fired, though...



he'd have to get each man alone, but sure, he could do it...

Originally posted by Raoul
and how would pete know scott is still alive?

Sorry mate I still don't see how thats relevant, no disrespect or anything I just don't get it. What are your saying if Scott is unconscious that Pete would still think that Scott still has a chance?

Originally posted by Raoul

he's going to take frank at his word and likely get himself killed?

and if there's one thing cyclops has taught the x-men, its that the mission > all. peter knows cyclops would expect him to take down frank if scott was incapacitated...

Mmmm maybe not but im sure that characters let their emotions dictate what they do instead of being cold and logical but I could be wrong.


Originally posted by Raoul

he changed after the bullets were fired, though...


Mmm not sure if its clear cut. Frank can't make the bullets go faster but he can still pull the trigger more quickly and hence making it more diffcult to dodge.

I also think that when Pete started to change he was not enitrely metal...but almost.


Originally posted by Raoul

he'd have to get each man alone, but sure, he could do it...

Agreed.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Sorry mate I still don't see how thats relevant, no disrespect or anything I just don't get it. What are your saying if Scott is unconscious that Pete would still think that Scott still has a chance?

no. im saying that if pete is across the room from him, how would colossus know whether cyclops is still alive or not...



everyone knows frank is a stone cold killer. peter's options are going to be (a)drop his armour, and most likely get him AND scott killed, or (b) take the chance that frank is bluffing or that scott is already dead, and kill frank even if he kills scott...

even i can admit B is the smarter option, and im the last person who wants to see scott's brains decorating the walls...



he was shifting, but iirc one or two bullets were hitting his skin and still bouncing off, though i could be wrong... his skin changing was always shown as being all of his skin changing at the same time, not like a fade across changing his skin as it passed...

Punisher clears them out

The Punisher loses. There's really nothing he could do to Colossus, and I don't think he could kill one X-Men without avoiding the other two.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The Punisher loses. There's really nothing he could do to Colossus, and I don't think he could kill one X-Men without avoiding the other two.

Yes there is.

1. Theres a good chance that he has War machine armour.
2. He has a gun in his possession that was capable of blowing through Rhinos hide and could have killed him.
3. He gets help from Stu Clark so likely he would be able to come up with a weapon.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes there is.

1. Theres a good chance that he has War machine armour.
2. He has a gun in his possession that was capable of blowing through Rhinos hide and could have killed him.
3. He gets help from Stu Clark so likely he would be able to come up with a weapon.

1a. 3 weeks is not enough time for Clarke to rebuild the War Machine armor and for Castle to master it.

1b. Colossus > War Machine

2. Colossus' durability >>> Rhino's durability

3. Clarke is good, but he's no Reed Richards or Doom. Castle can bring down more dangerous foes with Clarke's tech, but let's not go crazy here.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
1a. 3 weeks is not enough time for Clarke to rebuild the War Machine armor and for Castle to master it.

He doesnt have to build it he has it in his possession, and he doesnt neccesarily have to master if he plans himself well.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

1b. Colossus > War Machine

Prove it. Didn't War Machine take on Exodus?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

2. Colossus' durability >>> Rhino's durability

Even if thats the case it doesnt matter. Its not like Collosus has a massive durability advanatage over Rhino, if that was the case you might have a point. Even if there is a massive difference in durability the gun destoryed part of Rhinos suit and I was under the impression that suit was almost indestructible.

Stu can also can come up with a device to weaken Collosus.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

3. Clarke is good, but he's no Reed Richards or Doom. Castle can bring down more dangerous foes with Clarke's tech, but let's not go crazy here.

He doesnt have to be as good as Doom. Stu was able to come up with weapons that were able to significantly weaken Wonder Man im sure he can think of something to weaken Collosus.

Of course im going crazy Stu was able to create a suit that gave Frank Castle at least class 10 strength in 15mins...theres no way he could come up with something in 3 weeks.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He doesnt have to build it he has it in his possession, and he doesnt neccesarily have to master if he plans himself well.

How is the War Machine armor going to be a factor in this all if Castle doesn't master using it?



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Prove it. Didn't War Machine take on Exodus?

What's your point? What can War Machine really do to harm Colossus, or take him down for that matter?



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Even if thats the case it doesnt matter. Its not like Collosus has a massive durability advanatage over Rhino, if that was the case you might have a point.

Um.... yes. Yes, he does.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Stu can also can come up with a device to weaken Collosus.

Weaken how? I didn't read about the Wonder Man thing, but I'm sure it probably involved siphoning his ionic energy, right? If so, how is that relevant to Colossus, who isn't an energy-based being?


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He doesnt have to be as good as Doom. Stu was able to come up with weapons that were able to significantly weaken Wonder Man im sure he can think of something to weaken Collosus.

Of course im going crazy Stu was able to create a suit that gave Frank Castle at least class 10 strength in 15mins...theres no way he could come up with something in 3 weeks.

My point is, it's all speculation on your part.

Doom has siphoned the Power Cosmic a few times with prep. Is that to say he'd be able to steal the powers of the Living Tribunal or The One Above All if given a year? The way characters are being hyped by their writers, it's a possibility. Thus far, Doom has shown his limitations.

I just re-read Punisher War Journal #12. It looked like Clarke was pulling something out of a crate. It looks to me like he'd already made the suit's technology, but needed a way to graft it onto Castle... unless you want to tell me he thought it up, named it, built it, and customized it for Castle using only a soldering iron and used copper wiring... which is, well, retarded.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
How is the War Machine armor going to be a factor in this all if Castle doesn't master using it?


Because he can use other factors for example he can weaken Collosus before using the armour so if he hasnt mastered it its not a total disaster.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

What's your point? What can War Machine really do to harm Colossus, or take him down for that matter?

Brute force im pretty sure the War Machine armour weapons are powerful enough to deal with Collosus but it wont be easy.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Um.... yes. Yes, he does.

I also mentioned that the gun destroyed part of his suit. I was under the impression that that suit was nearly indestructible and has taken shots from Hulk etc. So are you seriously tellimg me a gun that is capable of destorying that suit can't hurt Collosus.


Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Weaken how? I didn't read about the Wonder Man thing, but I'm sure it probably involved siphoning his ionic energy, right? If so, how is that relevant to Colossus, who isn't an energy-based being?

Yes it did and I knew you wouldn't get the point. The point is he used prep to significantly weaken Wonder Man so why couldn't he use it for Collosus there both powerful bricks. Now since Collosus is made of metal he would obvoulsy use magnetic based weapons.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

My point is, it's all speculation on your part.

Its a prep thread most prep threads involve speculation. You are just makign excuses because Stu ahs not specifically created a weapon


Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Doom has siphoned the Power Cosmic a few times with prep. Is that to say he'd be able to steal the powers of the Living Tribunal or The One Above All if given a year? The way characters are being hyped by their writers, it's a possibility. Thus far, Doom has shown his limitations.


Oh God here we go again. Why on earth are you bringing LT into this? What so you're telling me that Collosus is out of his league. Well I was under the impression Wonder Man > Collosus. Idn't stop him from giving Wonder Man grief did it.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol


I just re-read Punisher War Journal #12. It looked like Clarke was pulling something out of a crate. It looks to me like he'd already made the suit's technology, but needed a way to graft it onto Castle... unless you want to tell me he thought it up, named it, built it, and customized it for Castle using only a soldering iron and used copper wiring... which is, well, retarded.


...and he still has the suit and the technology it was still working at the end of the issue so he could most likely build it again in less time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Because he can use other factors for example he can weaken Collosus before using the armour so if he hasnt mastered it its not a total disaster.

Brute force im pretty sure the War Machine armour weapons are powerful enough to deal with Collosus but it wont be easy.

Weaken him HOW? War Machine's weapons are not gonna be enough to stop Colossus, and he'll get KTFO if he tries to go h2h.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I also mentioned that the gun destroyed part of his suit. I was under the impression that that suit was nearly indestructible and has taken shots from Hulk etc. So are you seriously tellimg me a gun that is capable of destorying that suit can't hurt Collosus.

Colossus' skin >>> Rhino's hide.

Are you saying that gun is more powerful than the Hulk?


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes it did and I knew you wouldn't get the point. The point is he used prep to significantly weaken Wonder Man so why couldn't he use it for Collosus there both powerful bricks. Now since Collosus is made of metal he would obvoulsy use magnetic based weapons.

Yeah, they're both bricks, but trying a similar energy-siphon attack won't work against Colossus. If the Punisher had a magnetic weapon, he could theoretically immobilize Wolverine and Colossus, but then what's to stop Cyclops from blasting him before he does it, or even while he does it?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its a prep thread most prep threads involve speculation. You are just makign excuses because Stu ahs not specifically created a weapon

No, you're the one making excuses for the Punisher to win, even though Clarke hasn't been shown to replicate anything more complex than old Iron Man armor.... and that still won't be enough to stop this team.




Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh God here we go again.

That's probably what the rest of us thought when we saw your thread.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Why on earth are you bringing LT into this?

It was to demonstrate the limitations Doom has shown. Clarke has been shown to replicate out-dated Stark tech at best, so until he tops that, that's pretty much the most of what he's capable of.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What so you're telling me that Collosus is out of his league.

No, I'm telling you the Punisher is out of his league here, even with Clarke's inventions.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well I was under the impression Wonder Man > Collosus. Idn't stop him from giving Wonder Man grief did it.... and he still has the suit and the technology it was still working at the end of the issue so he could most likely build it again in less time.

You keep mentioning a fight with Wonder Man... What issue did he fight with Clarke or the Punisher? I haven't been keeping up with Punisher War Journal lately, and the only thing I've seen with Wonder Man in it was a one-panel flashback of Clarke's past as a supervillain.

Colossus has gotten a serious upgrade and is now Class 100. Until he and Wonder Man have an all-out brawl, we can't say for certain he's still better than Colossus.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Weaken him HOW? War Machine's weapons are not gonna be enough to stop Colossus, and he'll get KTFO if he tries to go h2h.





Colossus' skin >>> Rhino's hide.

Are you saying that gun is more powerful than the Hulk?




Yeah, they're both bricks, but trying a similar energy-siphon attack won't work against Colossus. If the Punisher had a magnetic weapon, he could theoretically immobilize Wolverine and Colossus, but then what's to stop Cyclops from blasting him before he does it, or even while he does it?



No, you're the one making excuses for the Punisher to win, even though Clarke hasn't been shown to replicate anything more complex than old Iron Man armor.... and that still won't be enough to stop this team.






That's probably what the rest of us thought when we saw your thread.



It was to demonstrate the limitations Doom has shown. Clarke has been shown to replicate out-dated Stark tech at best, so until he tops that, that's pretty much the most of what he's capable of.



No, I'm telling you the Punisher is out of his league here, even with Clarke's inventions.



You keep mentioning a fight with Wonder Man... What issue did he fight with Clarke or the Punisher? I haven't been keeping up with Punisher War Journal lately, and the only thing I've seen with Wonder Man in it was a one-panel flashback of Clarke's past as a supervillain.

Colossus has gotten a serious upgrade and is now Class 100. Until he and Wonder Man have an all-out brawl, we can't say for certain he's still better than Colossus.

I can see this discussion isn't going to go anywhere. You are accusing me of speculation while doing the same yourself. Worse speculation though IMO.

Anyway i'll try this last point... *sigh* Stu Clark has created a gun that was able to destory part of Rhinos hide.

No Collosus is not more durable than Rhinos hide. Rhinos hide has taken shots from Hulk and blasts from Silver Surfer that does not mean that the gun was more powerful than the Hulk or Silver Surfer but it means the weapon was more effective.

Cap has Koed Rhino but that does not mean he can punch harder than The Hulk, however since he has Koed Rhino that makes it posible for him to KO other people of similar durability.

Since the gun destroyed Rhinos hide it can put down Collosus.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I can see this discussion isn't going to go anywhere.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
That's probably what the rest of us thought when we saw your thread.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You are accusing me of speculation while doing the same yourself. Worse speculation though IMO.

I'm just going by what's been shown, and what has been consistent.

This would be speculation:

"Alfheim wears Punisher jammies to bed."

See the difference? I have nothing to really base that on, aside from your delusions and rampant fanboyism.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I'm just going by what's been shown, and what has been consistent.

This is speculation:

"Alfheim wears Punisher jammies to bed."

See the difference?

This was my last point see if you can understand this and stop trolling. Hell the only person who has a problem with this thread is you. Nobody else has said that Punsiher is out of his league with the stipulations you came into this thread to cause trouble.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


Anyway i'll try this last point... *sigh* Stu Clark has created a gun that was able to destory part of Rhinos hide.

No Collosus is not more durable than Rhinos hide. Rhinos hide has taken shots from Hulk and blasts from Silver Surfer that does not mean that the gun was more powerful than the Hulk or Silver Surfer but it means the weapon was more effective.

Cap has Koed Rhino but that does not mean he can punch harder than The Hulk, however since he has Koed Rhino that makes it posible for him to KO other people of similar durability.

Since the gun destroyed Rhinos hide it can put down Collosus.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
This was my last point see if you can understand this and stop trolling.

Anyway i'll try this last point... *sigh* Stu Clark has created a gun that was able to destory part of Rhinos hide.

No Collosus is not more durable than Rhinos hide. Rhinos hide has taken shots from Hulk and blasts from Silver Surfer that does not mean that the gun was more powerful than the Hulk or Silver Surfer but it means the weapon was more effective.

Cap has Koed Rhino but that does not mean he can punch harder than The Hulk, however since he has Koed Rhino that makes it posible for him to KO other people of similar durability.

Since the gun destroyed Rhinos hide it can put down Collosus.

No, that's not gonna fly with me. Cap has no business knocking out the Rhino either.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hell the only person who has a problem with this thread is you. Nobody else has said that Punsiher is out of his league with the stipulations you came into this thread to cause trouble.

Raoul doesn't seem convinced the Punisher can do it. Endrict Nuul, xmarksthespot, and llagrok think this thread is silly.

Try again.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
No, that's not gonna fly with me. Cap has no business knocking out the Rhino either.

Well then forget it then. Lots of people on this forum think that Cap can KO Rhino and has hurt and Koed people tougher as well. If you knew Cap and read any of his comics you would know its within his capability.

At the end of the day the gun has the capability of doing it, you're argument is that Collosus is more durable than Rhinos hide, you have no proof and you're argument is nuh-uh.





Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Raoul doesn't seem convinced the Punisher can do it. Endrict Nuul, xmarksthespot, and llagrok think this thread is silly.

Try again.

Well Raoul doesnt think the thread is spite anyway. Don't care what Xmarks and llgarok think and Endrict Null thought the thread was spite at first but at least he thinks the War machine armour can take Collosus instead of assuming that Collosus is too tough. So no try again.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well then forget it then. Lots of people on this forum think that Cap can KO Rhino and has hurt and Koed people tougher as well. If you knew Cap and read any of his comics you would know its within his capability.

At the end of the day the gun has the capability of doing it, you're argument is that Collosus is more durable than Rhinos hide, you have no proof and you're argument is nuh-uh.

I'm gonna flip the script in classic Alfheim fashion and ask: What proof do you have that Rhino's hide is just as durable as Colossus?






Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Don't care what Xmarks and llgarok think and Endrict Null thought the thread was spite at first but at least he thinks the War machine armour can take Collosus instead of assuming that Collosus is too tough.

So we'll just assume War Machine is too tough for Colossus, right?

You still haven't answered how the Punisher will pull it off without sufficient training with the War Machine armor. You don't just get on a submarine for three weeks and milk it the rest of the way through enemy lines.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I'm gonna flip the script in classic Alfheim fashion and ask: What proof do you have that Rhino's hide is just as durable as Colossus?


*sigh* go back and read what I said about Rhinos hide and stop wasting my time. You're not flipping anything you're just being a troll.




Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Or assume War Machine is too tough for Colossus, right?

LOL im not....I just think that the weapons are powerful enough to take down Collosus with difficulity, that is a reasonable stance. War Machine armour is one of Starks more impressive inventions. Just assuming that Collosus is going to be too tough is very unreasonable.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

You still haven't answered how the Punisher will pull it off without sufficient training with the War Machine armor. You don't just get on a submarine for three weeks and milk it the rest of the way through enemy lines.

I have actually how about you address this point of the gun.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

At the end of the day the gun has the capability of doing it, you're argument is that Collosus is more durable than Rhinos hide, you have no proof and you're argument is nuh-uh.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I have actually... Because he can use other factors for example he can weaken Collosus before using the armour so if he hasnt mastered it its not a total disaster.

Wow... I stand corrected. Gotta watch out for those other factors. They can be dangerous.

The gun was able to down the Rhino, who isn't nearly as durable as Colossus.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Wow... I stand corrected. Gotta watch out for those other factors. They can be dangerous.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Wow... I stand corrected. Gotta watch out for those other factors. They can be dangerous.

and I explained he has created tech that was able to weaken Wonder Man and hence he can think of something that can weaken Collosus. Eventhough he has never craeted a weapon to stop Collosus I think if we look at his showings its within his capability.

Doom has never weakened a Celestial but I think its within his capability if I look at his other showings.

Anyway im not particulary bothered because I don't think he would go for The War Machine option, only as a last resort.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

The gun was able to down the Rhino, who isn't nearly as durable as Colossus.

..and this is why you're trolling I also mentioned his hide...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
and I explained he has created tech that was able to weaken Wonder Man and hence he can think of something that can weaken Collosus. Eventhough he has never craeted a weapon to stop Collosus I think if we look at his showings its within his capability. Anyway im not particulary bothered because I don't think he would go for The War Machine option, only as a last resort.


Again... what kind of weapon is going to stop this one X-Man, and how is Castle going to drop him while avoiding the other two? Energy-siphoning isn't going to work because Colossus isn't an energy-based being. Anything powerful enough to kill Colossus is more than likely going to kill all four of them, if it's already not out of Clarke's capabilities. A magnetic weapon could work well enough against Colossus and Wolverine, but it leaves him open to Cyclops' optic blasts. Use of firearms requires focus on one target at a time for at least a few moments, leaving him susceptible to attack from the other two. The War Machine wouldn't be much help due to Frank's inexperience in using it.

You still haven't told me in which issue the Wonder Man fight appeared.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Doom has never weakened a Celestial but I think its within his capability if I look at his other showings.

Doom has stolen the powers of Galactus and the Beyonder, both whom should be above a Celestial-- and all three are energy-based beings. Of course it's within his means. That's the point-- he's already accomplished greater things. You're speculating Clarke can invent these miraculous weapons, when we've never seen him with anything more advanced than out-dated Iron Man tech. If he could, he'd have used it to try and wipe out Tony a few times by now.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
..and this is why you're trolling I also mentioned his hide...

I'm not trolling; I'm disagreeing. You've really done nothing but throw out a few ham-handed claims in favor of the Punisher, and with almost no real support for them.

Rhino's hide has been ruined on one occasion by Spider-Man using acidic webbing. It should hold up decently against blunt force, like the Hulk fights. The Silver Surfer is notorious for holding back, but the blast should've still wrecked his outfit, but for artistic purposes or laziness, the illustrator chose to leave it intact.

That wasn't the case with The Punisher vs. The Rhino, however, because the artist was trying to emphasize the power of the gun (which I believe uses concussion force rather than heat/energy). That's cool, but even with Rhino's own momentum, it failed to penetrate his own flesh and only broke a few of his ribs. He was hurt, but was well enough to pick a drunken fight with Armadillo shortly afterward at Stiltman's funeral.

Cool weapon, but not as strong as you're making it out to be. What's it going to do to someone much more durable than the Rhino?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Again... what kind of weapon is going to stop this one X-Man, and how is Castle going to drop him while avoiding the other two? Energy-siphoning isn't going to work because Colossus isn't an energy-based being. Anything powerful enough to kill Colossus is more than likely going to kill all four of them, if it's already not out of Clarke's capabilities. A magnetic weapon could work well enough against Colossus and Wolverine, but it leaves him open to Cyclops' optic blasts. Use of firearms requires focus on one target at a time for at least a few moments, leaving him susceptible to attack from the other two. The War Machine wouldn't be much help due to Frank's inexperience in using it.

You still haven't told me in which issue the Wonder Man fight appeared.



Doom has stolen the powers of Galactus and the Beyonder, both whom should be above a Celestial-- and all three are energy-based beings. Of course it's within his means. That's the point-- he's already accomplished greater things. You're speculating Clarke can invent these miraculous weapons, when we've never seen him with anything more advanced than out-dated Iron Man tech. If he could, he'd have used it to try and wipe out Tony a few times by now.



I'm not trolling; I'm disagreeing. You've really done nothing but throw out a few ham-handed claims in favor of the Punisher, and with almost no real support for them.

Rhino's hide has been ruined on one occasion by Spider-Man using acidic webbing. It should hold up decently against blunt force, like the Hulk fights. The Silver Surfer is notorious for holding back, but the blast should've still wrecked his outfit, but for artistic purposes or laziness, the illustrator chose to leave it intact.

That wasn't the case with The Punisher vs. The Rhino, however, because the artist was trying to emphasize the power of the gun (which I believe uses concussion force rather than heat/energy). That's cool, but even with Rhino's own momentum, it failed to penetrate his own flesh and only broke a few of his ribs. He was hurt, but was well enough to pick a drunken fight with Armadillo shortly afterward at Stiltman's funeral.

Cool weapon, but not as strong as you're making it out to be. What's it going to do to someone much more durable than the Rhino?
Look..

1. You are dictating to me what characters should or should not be able to do despite the fact they've been shown to be able to do it for years. You just want to dispute it because it doesn't fit your point of view.

2. When something happens in a comic that doesn't suit your point of view you what to start dictating what the artist intended.

I could answer your post in detail but since you want to argue nu-uh its obvoulsy going to be a waste if time. Go and pester somebody else....oh and you're refering to the wrong Punisher issue. doh

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Look..

1. You are dictating to me what characters should or should not be able to do despite the fact they've been shown to be able to do it for years. You just want to dispute it because it doesn't fit your point of view.

2. When something happens in a comic that doesn't suit your point of view you what to start dictating what the artist intended.

I could answer your post in detail but since you want to argue nu-uh its obvoulsy going to be a waste if time. Go and pester somebody else....oh and you're refering to the wrong Punisher issue. doh

So what you're saying is that you really have no idea how The Punisher can realistically pull this off without getting himself beaten to a pulp or killed? I'm really not that surprised. You do the whole Cartman "Screw you, guys... I'm going home!" bit whenever your claims are challenged, and you can't back them up with some real proof or even a decent argument.

You mentioned earlier that most prep threads are speculative, but they are always determined by what Character A has been shown capable of with prep. Doom has created the first time machine, siphoned the energies from at least 3 cosmic or abstract beings, held his own in Hell, etc. Reed Richards is just as formidable with prep. Both have been doing this for years, and it's not unimaginable for them to do anything beneath those feats.

Stuart Clarke? He has not been around as the Punisher's sidekick for years and years. The greatest demonstrations of his skill were recreating old Iron Man tech and his Rampage suit which granted him superhuman strength and durability-- not enough to defeat these 3 X-Men. However, you want to claim that he's got even greater potential simply because he hasn't shown it yet. Maybe so, but at this point it's only wishful thinking on your part. Otherwise, one can go ahead and say that Marvel's top tier martial artists can potentially throw Hadoken fireballs, but haven't been shown to do it because they've never really tried, yet could if they did.

The Punisher shot the Rhino in PWJ #3, and the Rhino-Armadillo fight was in PWJ #4. It damaged his suit, likely broke a few ribs, and maybe caused some internal bruising. However, he was still well enough to pick a fight with Armadillo and continue on in a super-powered bar room brawl. A gun like that could take out Cyclops and Wolverine (if only momentarily) but not Colossus, whose durability is on another level than Rhino's. There's really nothing that could drop Colossus fast enough to avoid Cyclops and Wolverine, or vice versa. Castle will be outnumbered, overpowered, and overwhelmed.

Cyclops = range + power
Wolverine = durability + speed
Colossus = strength + durability

Before now, I've only referenced PWJ #17 because it's the only thing I've seen anything linking Stuart Clark to Wonder Man. It was a one-panel scene without any mention of weakening him by any means. By my own admission, I haven't read PWJ #13-16 or anything after #17. So why not just answer the friggin' question and tell the rest of us where this happened or where it was mentioned?

So far the only thing I've been able to find was a wiki article, stating that Clarke outfitted himself and a few homeless buddies with Rampage suits, injured Beast, and then got their collective asses handed to them by Wonder Man. If Clarke did weaken Wonder Man, well, great. Where the Hell did it happen? And how is it relevant to Clarke's inventions weakening Colossus? Back your G.D. claims and quit turning into an intellectual hermit crab when you get called out on your half-assed general statements. This is a debate forum, for f***'s sake.

Fastball Special/Claw City/Optic Blast/Colossus sh**-stomp for the win 8-9/10.

I think he would have a good shot against them one on one and probably own Cyclops one on one but as a team not so much. It's been mentioned already that Scott is a good strategist and so is Wolverine. Also the Punisher has to keep track of 3 people so there's a good chance one of them will be free to melee at some point. I would think they would use some sort of a distraction technique such as letting Cyclops shoot beams at him while Logan and Colossus do that speed blitz thing where Colossus throws Wolverine at people at high speeds. That suit may be powerful but is it more powerful than Adamantium? I'm pretty much thinking the punisher is gonna get stabbed in the back of the head or something damaging enough to stop the fight.

phantomzone you one big masochist, ya damn psycho!!! whip

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So what you're saying is that you really have no idea how The Punisher can realistically pull this off without getting himself beaten to a pulp or killed? I'm really not that surprised. You do the whole Cartman "Screw you, guys... I'm going home!" bit whenever your claims are challenged, and you can't back them up with some real proof or even a decent argument.

No not at all I engaged with Raoul in a debate because he was reasonable you are just wasting my time.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

You mentioned earlier that most prep threads are speculative, but they are always determined by what Character A has been shown capable of with prep. Doom has created the first time machine, siphoned the energies from at least 3 cosmic or abstract beings, held his own in Hell, etc. Reed Richards is just as formidable with prep. Both have been doing this for years, and it's not unimaginable for them to do anything beneath those feats.

Stuart Clarke? He has not been around as the Punisher's sidekick for years and years. The greatest demonstrations of his skill were recreating old Iron Man tech and his Rampage suit which granted him superhuman strength and durability-- not enough to defeat these 3 X-Men. However, you want to claim that he's got even greater potential simply because he hasn't shown it yet. Maybe so, but at this point it's only wishful thinking on your part. Otherwise, one can go ahead and say that Marvel's top tier martial artists can potentially throw Hadoken fireballs, but haven't been shown to do it because they've never really tried, yet could if they did.

The Punisher shot the Rhino in PWJ #3, and the Rhino-Armadillo fight was in PWJ #4. It damaged his suit, likely broke a few ribs, and maybe caused some internal bruising. However, he was still well enough to pick a fight with Armadillo and continue on in a super-powered bar room brawl. A gun like that could take out Cyclops and Wolverine (if only momentarily) but not Colossus, whose durability is on another level than Rhino's. There's really nothing that could drop Colossus fast enough to avoid Cyclops and Wolverine, or vice versa. Castle will be outnumbered, overpowered, and overwhelmed.

Cyclops = range + power
Wolverine = durability + speed
Colossus = strength + durability

Before now, I've only referenced PWJ #17 because it's the only thing I've seen anything linking Stuart Clark to Wonder Man. It was a one-panel scene without any mention of weakening him by any means. By my own admission, I haven't read PWJ #13-16 or anything after #17. So why not just answer the friggin' question and tell the rest of us where this happened or where it was mentioned?

So far the only thing I've been able to find was a wiki article, stating that Clarke outfitted himself and a few homeless buddies with Rampage suits, injured Beast, and then got their collective asses handed to them by Wonder Man. If Clarke did weaken Wonder Man, well, great. Where the Hell did it happen? And how is it relevant to Clarke's inventions weakening Colossus? Back your G.D. claims and quit turning into an intellectual hermit crab when you get called out on your half-assed general statements. This is a debate forum, for f***'s sake.

Fastball Special/Claw City/Optic Blast/Colossus sh**-stomp for the win 8-9/10.

Yes you're refering to the wrong comic. Ive already stated why I dont want to respond to your post anything that doesnt suit your view you simply deny it. You are not debating. Go away.


Originally posted by socool8520
I think he would have a good shot against them one on one and probably own Cyclops one on one but as a team not so much. It's been mentioned already that Scott is a good strategist and so is Wolverine. Also the Punisher has to keep track of 3 people so there's a good chance one of them will be free to melee at some point. I would think they would use some sort of a distraction technique such as letting Cyclops shoot beams at him while Logan and Colossus do that speed blitz thing where Colossus throws Wolverine at people at high speeds. That suit may be powerful but is it more powerful than Adamantium? I'm pretty much thinking the punisher is gonna get stabbed in the back of the head or something damaging enough to stop the fight.

Yes Cyclops is a master strategist but so is Punisher as well and he has an advanatge of 3weeks and hi tech weapons deisgned to take out the X-men.

Originally posted by Sado22
phantomzone you one big masochist, ya damn psycho!!! whip

Yeah I know boredeom really.

Seriously wtf is the point of this thread?

Dakota Fanning could beat these X-Men in a versus thread if I were to bullshit about her having a full-body ruby quartz shield, magnetic repulsion technology sufficiently strong and the Saint of Killers' Colts, because she has "prep."

Is that supposed to make Dakota look badass?

And if she had the Satan Claw, she could KTFO of the Punisher and leave him in tears, ala Molly Hayes.... only more glamorous.


shifty

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Seriously wtf is the point of this thread?

Dakota Fanning could beat these X-Men in a versus thread if I were to bullshit about her having a full-body ruby quartz shield, magnetic repulsion technology sufficiently strong and the Saint of Killers' Colts, because she has "prep."

Is that supposed to make Dakota look badass?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No its not. Theres a reason why Stu Clark gives Punisher the tech to hunt down criminals instead of him doing it himself

Laziness? Not giving enough of a ****?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Laziness?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No not at all I engaged with Raoul in a debate because he was reasonable you are just wasting my time.



Yes you're refering to the wrong comic. Ive already stated why I dont want to respond to your post anything that doesnt suit your view you simply deny it. You are not debating. Go away.




Yes Cyclops is a master strategist but so is Punisher as well and he has an advanatge of 3weeks and hi tech weapons deisgned to take out the X-men.



Yeah I know boredeom really.

Yeah I'm just sayin the X-men have 2 strategists and the Punisher is al by himself. It's not impossiblle, but it would be extremely difficult which is why I give the majority to the X-men

Originally posted by socool8520
Yeah I'm just sayin the X-men have 2 strategists and the Punisher is al by himself. It's not impossiblle, but it would be extremely difficult which is why I give the majority to the X-men

Thats fair enough really, bare in mind though that Punisher has beaten Wolverine with no prep at all and has shown to be arguably better at prep than Captain America.

To be quite honest with you I might still give the majority to the X-men eventhough Pun is very good and has his weapons, the other three have alot of exprience working with each other and have dealt with death traps before.

I think Pun can take Wolverine and Cyclops but the big problem is gonna be Collosus.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats fair enough really, bare in mind though that Punisher has beaten Wolverine with no prep at all and has shown to be arguably better at prep than Captain America.

To be quite honest with you I might still give the majority to the X-men eventhough Pun is very good and has his weapons, the other three have alot of exprience working with each other and have dealt with death traps before.

I think Pun can take Wolverine and Cyclops but the big problem is gonna be Collosus.

Yeah, but hasn't Logan handed the Punisher his anus as well? But given the fact that he has a super suit it would tip the odds in his favor if it was just Logan and Scott and I agree that the big factor would be Colossus in this scenario. i think if you took out either Colossus or Logan, Punisher's chances go up., but as it stands, the X-team takes it most of the time.

Originally posted by socool8520
Yeah, but hasn't Logan handed the Punisher his anus as well?


Punisher has beaten Wolverine more times than Wolverine has beaten him. Two times without prep and one with.

One time the fight between Wolverine lasted for a whole comic before Pun was beaten the other time Wolverine beat Pun he had just fought a Gorilla and Pun did well considering he didn't know who Wolverine was and he was already tired. Hell when Wolverine attacked he was wondering what the hell was going on.

Originally posted by socool8520

But given the fact that he has a super suit it would tip the odds in his favor if it was just Logan and Scott and I agree that the big factor would be Colossus in this scenario. i think if you took out either Colossus or Logan, Punisher's chances go up., but as it stands, the X-team takes it most of the time.

I think you're really underestimating Punisher even if had the suit hes not going to go in guns blazing and I think its unlikley that he would use it. Wolverines not much of a threat in this scenerio.

the last page of this thread is giving me a bloody headache...

the whole point of getting something like a supersuit would be to mix it up... you can't get in a suit like that and then try to be stealthy, even if it had a silent running mode...

as far as ruby quartz goes, its not something that's just lying around in marvel, the only people with any sort of large supply is the hellfire club, and that was years ago...

Originally posted by Raoul
the last page of this thread is giving me a bloody headache...

the whole point of getting something like a supersuit would be to mix it up... you can't get in a suit like that and then try to be stealthy, even if it had a silent running mode...


Not really you can still be tactical even if you have the suit, you don't have to be stealthy but you can still be smart. However I think he probably won't use it, if he does he will probably use a venomtech suit.

Originally posted by Raoul
the last page of this thread is giving me a bloody headache...

the whole point of getting something like a supersuit would be to mix it up... you can't get in a suit like that and then try to be stealthy, even if it had a silent running mode...

as far as ruby quartz goes, its not something that's just lying around in marvel, the only people with any sort of large supply is the hellfire club, and that was years ago...
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really you can still be tactical even if you have the suit, you don't have to be stealthy but you can still be smart. However I think he probably won't use it, if he does he will probably use a venomtech suit.

ban

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Since the gun destroyed Rhinos hide it can put down Collosus. The hell kind of logic is that?

Rhino's hide may very well be durable against brick hits but can still be incinerated or cut through...

There's nothing to say that the damage output from that gun was = to Hulk's or even similar at all for that matter.

Originally posted by jinzin
The hell kind of logic is that?

Rhino's hide may very well be durable against brick hits but can still be incinerated or cut through...

Yes it could be but you would obvoulsy need alot of force. Silver Surfers blasts didnt incinerate the suit.

Originally posted by jinzin

There's nothing to say that the damage output from that gun was = to Hulk's or even similar at all for that matter.

Not saying it is, the type of damages is different but obvoulsy if the suit can take shots from The Hulk and Silver Surfer the suit is very tough.

Anyway the Hulks starngth varies it is posible that the blast might have been equal to one of his punches.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes it could be but you would obvoulsy need alot of force. Silver Surfers blasts didnt incinerate the suit.



Not saying it is, the type of damages is different but obvoulsy if the suit can take shots from The Hulk and Silver Surfer the suit is very tough.

Anyway the Hulks starngth varies it is posible that the blast might have been equal to one of his punches.



So, what you're saying is:

SHIELD gun > Rhino's hide >/= Hulk punch > Surfer blast



Wolverine's pants > Nuclear Missile

Hulk's pants > Fin Fang Foom's flames.

Squirrels > Thanos' durability/Doom armor

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So, what you're saying is:

SHIELD gun > Rhino's hide >/= Hulk punch > Surfer blast



Wolverine's pants > Nuclear Missile

Hulk's pants > Fin Fang Foom's flames.

Squirrels > Thanos' durability/Doom armor



Not really. I'll respond later when im less busy. I keep telling you, you keep refering to the wrong issue....not that it matters much.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So, what you're saying is:

SHIELD gun > Rhino's hide >/= Hulk punch > Surfer blast



Wolverine's pants > Nuclear Missile

Hulk's pants > Fin Fang Foom's flames.

Squirrels > Thanos' durability/Doom armor



Squirrel Girls squirrels could take down the Celestial order.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So, what you're saying is:

SHIELD gun > Rhino's hide >/= Hulk punch > Surfer blast



Wolverine's pants > Nuclear Missile

Hulk's pants > Fin Fang Foom's flames.

Squirrels > Thanos' durability/Doom armor



Actually im not going to respond to that post I can see you're trolling again

Stu Clarks Rampage suit has shown the capability of going toe-to-toe with Hercules that suit is tough enough to fight Collosus and we know he has it.

Also Pun managed to use a giant exo-skeleton to a degree of effectiveness vs the Reavers with hardly any practice time. Im betting within 3 weeks he can be proficient in using the Rampage suit.