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Classic 3 areas of combat
the fight is in trayus core

Starkiller.

He tooks Vader and apparently stalemates the Emperor. He's well above Dooku-level.

Originally posted by Gideon
Starkiller.

He tooks Vader and apparently stalemates the Emperor. He's well above Dooku-level.

Does George Lucas know about this shit?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Does George Lucas know about this shit?

No. It was all done in a labyrinthine special-ops room without his knowledge. Yes, DS. They worked closely with GL for the plotline. I'm trying to get more information on the exact specifics of the fight.

EDIT: Get on MSN and I'll give you what I know.

Wait a minute... this guy DEFEATS vader and actually is as strong as the emperor? This sounds absurd, if this guy really was stronger than vader then i don't see why the emperor wouldn't replace vader with this new guy.

Who the f*ck do they think they are to make starkiller to have "the potential to be the most powerful force user ever"? When clearly anakin skywalker/Darth vader was the one whom had this potential?

I fail to see how "jacob nion" is more powerful than a sith lord that could wipe out entire starfleets with one technique in the force. They made this character even more overpowered than bane, luke and nihilus.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Wait a minute... this guy DEFEATS vader and actually is as strong as the emperor?

Don't you have me on MSN? Message me and I'll let you know.

EDIT: Jesus H. Christ. Either this spoiler or DS's mind****ery or both have screwed with my ability to spell properly. The above statement should be tools. Not tooks.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't you have me on MSN? Message me and I'll let you know.

EDIT: Jesus H. Christ. Either this spoiler or DS's mind****ery or both have screwed with my ability to spell properly. The above statement should be tools. Not tooks.

Yea I will get on in a second but let me get this straight. A non skywalker has the most force potential ever. Right? Ok. Not only that, but this guy is supposed to be more powerful than Vader and rival the emperor right? Ok. So instead of the emperor having him kill Vader because he was powerful (and the EXACT same thing he wanted to do with Luke), he had Vader kill him, right? Ok. Well, I can see George Lucas is doped up on something or he just doesn't give a shit anymore because this contradicts everything.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't you have me on MSN? Message me and I'll let you know.

EDIT: Jesus H. Christ. Either this spoiler or DS's mind****ery or both have screwed with my ability to spell properly. The above statement should be tools. Not tooks. Good lord, you mean he actually "tools"(as in WTF own and dominate) vader whom is nearly as powerful as the strongest sith lord in history darth sidious?

I do have msn, but i'm in school now and they don't have msn messenger so maybe you could PM me the details thanks.

This is absurd as it contradicts GEORGE LUCAS, i'm VERY sure that the emperor killed him because "Jacob is far too much of a threat, blah blah hes gonna be more powerful than both of us so i'll rape this b!tch"*kills him*.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yea I will get on in a second but let me get this straight. A non skywalker has the most force potential ever. Right? Ok. Not only that, but this guy is supposed to be more powerful than Vader and rival the emperor right? Ok. So instead of the emperor having him kill Vader because he was powerful (and the EXACT same thing he wanted to do with Luke), he had Vader kill him, right? Ok. Well, I can see George Lucas is doped up on something or he just doesn't give a shit anymore because this contradicts everything.

I would suspect the latter. He's wealthy as all get out and only cares about his money. Not that it matters. I'm waiting until I get the total specifics of the fight before I give my final thoughts. And the game itself still looks AMAZING.

From what I know, Vader isn't the one to kill him.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
From what I know, Vader isn't the one to kill him.

Palpatine does.

Originally posted by Gideon
I would suspect the latter. He's wealthy as all get out and only cares about his money. Not that it matters. I'm waiting until I get the total specifics of the fight before I give my final thoughts. And the game itself still looks AMAZING. Where did you get this info by the way?

LA is an asshh0l3 enough to not port this to the PC but the fecking PS2 and WII and now they stir up controversial bullshit in SW.

^Gideon got connections.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
^Gideon got connections.

I am all powerful. You will soon kneel before me.

Jacob Nion is Revan on steroids and the fanboys are going to go f***in crazy with him, I actually enjoyed the idea of his character but he shouldn't be able to tool Vader.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Jacob Nion is Revan on steroids and the fanboys are going to f***in crazy with him, I actually enjoyed the idea of his character but he shouldn't be able to tool Vader.

Actually, no. He's much more agreeable to Revan. Revan was a Gary Stu; all proficiency and no personality; Nion is powerful, but deeply flawed, deluded, and (as his death has shown us) mortal.

Well Escape if you are correct then George Lucas needs to retire before he pisses off any more fans. I agree the game looks better than any game I've ever seen but the plot would contradict even the movies.

Hell yes.

Originally posted by Gideon
Actually, no. He's much more agreeable to Revan. Revan was a Gary Stu; all proficiency and no personality; Nion is powerful, but deeply flawed, deluded, and (as his death has shown us) mortal.

So you don't think there wont be as many people as there were for Revan saying that Nion is uber and can kill any character since he apparently can stalemate a post rots Sidious? I don't think many people will focus on his flaws as there will be saying that is god. It will b interesting to see what others think on different forums.

Within only several months of each other, LucasArts is releasing a feature length film and a video-game. The film seems to be the latest stage in Lucas' descent into CGI madness, and the game is yet one more example of EU pieces attempting to out-power their predecessors.

Lucas epitomizes the Oracle's line: "What do all men with power want? More power."

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
So you don't think there wont be as many people as there were for Revan saying that Nion is uber and can kill any character since he apparently can stalemate a post rots Sidious? I don't think many people will focus on his flaws as there will be saying that is god. It will b interesting to see what others think on different forums. Nion will have fanboys whose debates will revolve around stalemating Palpatine. Gideon's point is that, despite his ridiculous power, the man is still just a man. Revan seems perfect in every way, Nion is at least flawed.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Nion will have fanboys whose debates will revolve around Stalemating Palpatine. Gideon's point is that, despite his ridiculous power, the man is still just a man. Revan seems perfect in every way, Nion is at least flawed.

Amen. Thank you.

Stop crying kids it'll be ok...

Where did you get this info? I myself would like to read it.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
Stop crying kids it'll be ok... That's what Bush said. 8 years later: BAM! Herpes.

^LOL, and he's getting it from people posting spoilers on TFN (theforce.net) lit forums, they're always like 18 steps ahead of you guys...neways the spoilers are conflicting though one dude says Vader and SA is like an epic slugfest with SA barley winning, anther says he dumps on Vader, there all pretty much waiting for conformation on the fights.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Revan seems perfect in every way

I don't see anything wrong with that.
Is that a bad thing?

i gotta say: as a PC gamer, i won't be playing the game... (and its looks stupid with its bright lights with every use of the force, since when is THAT canon? ) no one has answered that yet. is that some special force power that the apprentice has that no one else has ever had? needs a name... like rainbow blossom or something else gay...)
but... aside from that (which is my personal problem with it that i can't talk about the game without mentioning....)
but aside from it: This has all the earmarkings of something i constantly downplay for realism... this falls right into the 8 year old boba fett vs. Windu garbage i was just commenting on, and the "mandalorians are the greatest enemy of the jedi crap"
if something is unbelievable, do we just ignore it?
I mean, we ignore Mace's Clone Wars feats mostly because they are just ridiculous. (or Yoda's for that matter) and it doesn't fit with other descriptions of him. (novels, film, w/e) so can't we do the same with a game that puts an absolute new character on par with the established greats?

1. The force has always usually been depicted as blue blurs in visual mediums when showing a force push or something so it doesn't look completely retarted.

2. From the novel spoils it seems SA feats aren't as grandious as the game presents it, with it costing him a heavy price for performing his leet powaz


One other thing where is this: Revan has no flaws shit coming from? Aside from the KOTOR 1 playthough which is really YOU not Revan, his previous personality was flat out stated to be: Arrogant, impatient, and power hungry, one could also make the case for a bit of meglomania, he had the stand alone complex that Jacen had, and his dark side talk in PoD cements that he was a pretty damn evil dude. Sure he's absurdly powerful but he's still a douche bag. At least pre KOTOR.

Actually Revan was NEVER stated to be arrogant, nor power hungry. He was THOUGHT of as impatient but those were subjective views from retarded Jedi. He is my favorite character and he IS perfect, but that isn't necessarily a good thing.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Actually Revan was NEVER stated to be arrogant, nor power hungry. He was THOUGHT of as impatient but those were subjective views from retarded Jedi. He is my favorite character and he IS perfect, but that isn't necessarily a good thing.


Subjective views that the entire council seemed to agree on and the only one who could even be really thought of as biased would be Vrook, because well he's a d-bag. He was called proud and headstrong by the Jedi, that assumes a bit of arrogance.

We can easily assume that he was power hungry, as he ah you know: tried to take over the galaxy ( but wait its for the galaxy's own good huh? I guess Jacen was right to...) Also his lust for knowledge that Vandar stated he had, that doubled with his hording of Sith artifacts.

And I don't know about you but I think deluding yourself into thinking your destroying the galaxy to prep it is a good thing is a bit, how can I put this: stupid.

How about the fact that he gives the ok for a command that is only just short of genocide, then uses the dark side to break Jedi after Jedi's will, all this an event he masterminded. Or how bout the slaughter of the Echani.

Finally as I said read his section in PoD, considering that he gave himself fully to the dark side of the force and became a pretty rotten guy is not perfection.

He's my favorite character to but the guy was still a bit of a sociopath while on his dark side trip.

I'll be honest, jacob nion is probably the most overpowered bullshit character to exist yet, hell revan and bane were believable characters but jacob is way too overpowered.

Right, a non skywalker is more powerful than the supposid "chosen one"(had he not get injured).

I done some reading at TFN, and it seems the overpowered character nearly "annihilates vader" and "throws everything at the emperor knocking off his concentration(something which even 2 skywalkers at once could BARELY do on sidious)".

F*king overpowered. Now the fanboys will ramble how much more powerful jacob is than sidious vader or even NJO luke.

Nion, in the grand scheme of things, is not as bad as Revan. Great power does not make him a Gary Stu. He was deeply deluded, easily manipulated, and confused. Revan's portrayed to basically be the second coming, with stopgaps like confirmations that Skywalker and Sidious and Yoda are beyond him being the only thing preventing him from being perfect and all powerful.

Revan's "flaws" are only mentioned to be in the pre-game years. Even then, it's not as bad as some may think:

He was arrogant sure, but compare his to the arrogance of many other antagonists in Star Wars, his is rather justified by comparison. He WAS a brilliant tactician, he WAS extremely charismatic, he WAS the best duelist, the best Force-wielder... he WAS the best of his day.

He was power-hungry, yes. But as we learn, it was all apparently for a noble defence of the galaxy.

That's pretty much it, he's the perfect being in every other way.

Oh and I forgot to mention: Kreia even speculates that the glorious bastard never even fell to the Dark Side. Apparently, he's so awesome, he's incorruptible. Oh my God... Revan is Batman.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nion, in the grand scheme of things, is not as bad as Revan. Great power does not make him a Gary Stu. He was deeply deluded, easily manipulated, and confused. Revan's portrayed to basically be the second coming, with stopgaps like confirmations that Skywalker and Sidious and Yoda are beyond him being the only thing preventing him from being perfect and all powerful.

I think the point is that not many characters would even have the ability let alone the knowledge of Nion's weaknesses to exploit them in a vs match.

Tangible God said it perfectly. Anyone who would suggest that Nion is more of a Gary Stu/fanboy magnet than Revan is retarded; for the most part, the boys and girls over at TF.net find the idea of Nion tooling Darth Vader and then holding his own against Darth Sidious to be a major **** up. Revan's presented to be flawless. I will never understand those who verbally fellate "LOLZ HOW UBER" Revan is. There's no logic behind it. In fact, one could say that for a guy who had all those advantages -- peerless dueling expertise, Force strength, charisma, military knowledge, experience, and will power -- and still failed to achieve his goals is rather pathetic.

As far as Nion is concerned, more details about the fight have been revealed. It is now my understanding that Nion doesn't really match the Emperor, but simply hurls "a lot of stuff" at him while Sidious is focused on PWNing Kota, which distracts him. And then the Emperor baits Nion into trying to strike him down. And then, the Emperor attempts to electrocute everyone, but Starkiller steps in the way and encroaches upon the Emperor -- gripping him as he's being electrocuted -- causing them both to be in agony.

He doesn't overpower him (though there is a mention how he makes some sort of sacrifice that puts a dent in the Death Star) but simply endures his Force lightning.

Revan is #1. But yes, Starkiller's power levels are a mockery of the intention of the movie, since it doesn't make ANY sense. While I think Revan is perfect, he's obviously not on Sidious' level, but he doesn't need to be to be perfect

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Revan is #1. But yes, Starkiller's power levels are a mockery of the intention of the movie, since it doesn't make ANY sense. While I think Revan is perfect, he's obviously not on Sidious' level, but he doesn't need to be to be perfect

You conjure up an attitude surprisingly similar to Nebaris, Darth Sexy. No one finds it amusing. The character whose literary penis you've swallowed to the point of choking is, actually, a complete failure.

Originally posted by Gideon
You conjure up an attitude surprisingly similar to Nebaris, Darth Sexy. No one finds it amusing. The character whose literary penis you've swallowed to the point of choking is, actually, a complete failure.

I never stated facts. I stated that Revan is PERFECT in my deluded mind because he's my favorite character, and that while he's shown without any failing qualities, he's still not as powerful as some star wars figures, whereas Starkiller contradicts a LOT of what happens in the movies. There was no humor here Escape. I think during your mental breakdown you lost the ability to differentiate between humor and seriousness.

WTF?

So... Starkiller is stronger than Vader, as powerful as the Emperor, and is now at a stalemate for the most powerful Sith Lord in history. He, 'apparently', has UNLIMITED POWER!!! in the force. Gee, that makes sense!

I've never felt like dropping a large TV on GL's head. Until today. I hope they don't screw up that nice-looking game with that... ugh...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
WTF?

So... Starkiller is stronger than Vader, as powerful as the Emperor, and is now at a stalemate for the most powerful Sith Lord in history. He, 'apparently', has UNLIMITED POWER!!! in the force. Gee, that makes sense!

I've never felt like dropping a large TV on GL's head. Until today. I hope they don't screw up that nice-looking game with that... ugh...


Originally posted by Gideon


As far as Nion is concerned, more details about the fight have been revealed. It is now my understanding that Nion doesn't really match the Emperor, but simply hurls "a lot of stuff" at him while Sidious is focused on PWNing Kota, which distracts him. And then the Emperor baits Nion into trying to strike him down. And then, the Emperor attempts to electrocute everyone, but Starkiller steps in the way and encroaches upon the Emperor -- gripping him as he's being electrocuted -- causing them both to be in agony.

He doesn't overpower him (though there is a mention how he makes some sort of sacrifice that puts a dent in the Death Star) but simply endures his Force lightning.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I never stated facts. I stated that Revan is PERFECT in my deluded mind because he's my favorite character, and that while he's shown without any failing qualities, he's still not as powerful as some star wars figures, whereas Starkiller contradicts a LOT of what happens in the movies. There was no humor here Escape. I think during your mental breakdown you lost the ability to differentiate between humor and seriousness.

LOL. That's sad. Seriously, that's ridiculous, DS. That's beyond Nebaris-class obsession. At least Bane accomplished his goal.

Heh... maybe Vader is 'hesitant' and therefore Starkiller does the Luke thing on him? I suppose that would make sense.

Sorry, but I still have faith in GL not to let that overpowered character be Vader's superior.

Originally posted by Gideon
LOL. That's sad. Seriously, that's ridiculous, DS. That's beyond Nebaris-class obsession. At least Bane accomplished his goal.

Revan was perfect as shown by Karpyshyn or whatever his name is, not because I think he was. I like Revan just as much as you hate the character so don't play this little game with me. Furthermore, you don't know what Revan did or did not accomplish because Drew chose to keep Revan's story incomplete.

No shit, cause thats the only time that has been documented in which it was really Revan's true self, not the players imprinted personality, which I can make an utter gullible puss or and arrogant asshat. And since there's no KOTOR 3 thats all we have to go on.





So arrogance is justified because he's the shit? Does this change the fact that he was arrogant...no.




According to one batshit insane old lady who hadn't seen her student in about a decade...even still whatever Revans intentions were by the time he made his holocron he was fully under the influence of the dark side, as PoD proves, Anakin's reasons were noble: he wanted to save Padmes life, Jacens motives were noble: he didn't want to kill Luke and wanted order for the galaxy, does this change the facts that they were all misguided sociopaths in the end? No, so I don't see why were making exceptions for Revan just cause you all have a ridicules hatred for the character.




So wait...

-commiting near genocide on his own troops
-literally forcing all the Jedi whom worshipped him to become Sith
-Hacked off his best friends jaw
-Massacaring the Echani
-Torturing Jedi
-Causing a massive schism in the Jedi order to use them as future Sith
-Idioticlly not telling any of his other officers or stih about his grandiose plan to save the galaxy


Are all NOT flaws, you all are just posting shit with no proof to back up your claims, Revan DOES have flaws, you all continuing to label him a perfect Gary Stu with no actual proof of him being that at all is a tad bit silly. His own words flat out PROVE he was a f*cked up individual.



Fallible Third Party Source.



Um who made that claim?



I fail to see how someone who fell to the darkside is "flawless" thats kids is what we call an oxymoron:

"As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side." - Chronicles of the Old Republic
http://www.gamebanshee.com/starwarskotorii/chronicles.php

LOL WUT?




I'll never understand those who get upset over character X being stronger then character Y in a fictional universe, there's no logic behind it, especially when the creator of the fictional universe is ok with it.




Um considering there has yet to be a KOTOR 3 I wouldn't speak on that.

Neither do I. Though, to be fair, George Lucas clearly doesn't give a damn about the integrity and consistency of his saga as a whole; he's out for money. But, I digress. His word is law.



The third installment is irrelevant. I'm referring to Revan as Dark Lord of the Sith. Despite his undeniable advantages, he failed to conquer the Republic and the galaxy. Which, in a way, makes him even more tragic and pathetic than those who lack such advantages and fail anyways.



We're not talking about moral or ethical dilemmas. Antagonists and villains, (who by nature are morally and ethically flawed) can still be Gary Stus by virtue of overwhelming positive characteristics. Greatest tactition? Check. Greatest duelist? Check. Greatest affinity to the Force? Check. Charismatic leader? Check. Supremely skilled pilot? Check. Supremely skilled mechanic? Check. And, somehow, I'm willing to bet he's a great looking guy. Don't kid yourself, AC. Revan was intended to be a Gary Stu. Though, as I say, in a manner of speaking, he's an utter failure.

Really your going to go that route? Even though its pretty much stated that within a year of returning he had conquered the entire outerim, the Republic military was virtually powerless to stop him and only a split decision by his own apprentice, stopped him, and even then without Revan destroying everything he had done, Malak would have taken the Republic. I don't to see how thats a tragic and pathetic failure on his part, if anything that makes him look better as only he could stop his military machine and the Sith.





Wow you just described:

Nearly every leading force sensitive character in SW

I don't understand how you get your rocks off to Palpatine when he is everything Revan is but seemingly better (He creates giant wormsholes with the force , better at everything. But for some odd reason you HATE Revan and claim HIM the Gary Stu yet Palpatine was able to sit right next to YODA for years without him noticing he happened to be the most powerful Darksider ever, your blind hate makes no sense. And since were not talking about personality flaws, what area does Revan hold over Palpatine? None, maybe he's a better mechanic then him, and probably better looking (But DE Palpatine is apparently Brad Pitt so there goes that).

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Heh... maybe Vader is 'hesitant' and therefore Starkiller does the Luke thing on him? I suppose that would make sense.

Sorry, but I still have faith in GL not to let that overpowered character be Vader's superior. What i'm reading at TFN is getting contradictory, some guy mentiones jacob "l33t pwn vader and dump on the emperor" while some other guy says "Both beat each others asses really hard".

I sure hope it is the latter as this will make vader and palpatine even more powerful(especially vader because many newbie fan n00bsters disrespect his status in the force and call him a slow moving clunky piece of shit).


I wouldn't mind if it was "both got their asses beaten really hard" in that climatic duel and styles mentioned something about circumstances that led jacob to "barely beat" vader, i sure hope this is the case.

And him even being able to tank palpatines lightning in the first place is utter bull, we have seen what happened when palpatine(or bane) unleash a very powerful blast of force lightning, their opponents get charred. Especially that jedi knight(Empires end) who had a large hole in his body after a "weakened palpatine" unleashed a lightning bolt burning through his flesh.
If jacob overpowers vader or sidious, i'm going to shit a brick.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
Really your going to go that route? Even though its pretty much stated that within a year of returning he had conquered the entire outerim, the Republic military was virtually powerless to stop him and only a split decision by his own apprentice, stopped him, and even then without Revan destroying everything he had done, Malak would have taken the Republic. I don't to see how thats a tragic and pathetic failure on his part, if anything that makes him look better as only he could stop his military machine and the Sith.

I am going to go that route and it's clearly one you can't follow. As a Sith Lord, Revan's plan was to conquer the Galactic Republic by force. He did not succeed; your apologist attitude by making ceaseless excuses for him doesn't change it, AC. Did he come close? He sure did. Close =/= actuality. Likewise, you suggest that him "tearing down everything he ever had done" is supposed to impress me. As the grand architect of his empire, he'd obviously know what flaws to exploit better than any man, the same reason why Palpatine was able to practically destroy the Galactic Empire and then rebuild it from the ground up.



Put down the bottle, AC. The two leading men in Star Wars, Luke and Anakin Skywalker, don't share half of those traits. Both Skywalkers were easily manipulated, naive, gullible, arrogant, and in many ways inexperienced. Despite the fact that father Skywalker's status as the Chosen One essentially made him a perfect being Force-wise, he was turned into a pawn by a man who, Force-wise, was inferior to him. Son Skywalker was mind****ed, got his hand chopped off, attacked and nearly killed his father, actually fell to the dark side (none of this "he used the dark side but didn't fall" bullshit) and continues to be outwitted even in his prime.

That is flawed.



Better at everything? Revan's certainly the greater mechanic, pilot, and tactition. Easily on par with the Emperor in personal charisma. Palpatine's narcissistic compulsion to take hold of those who could destroy him -- the Skywalkers -- and break them and dominate them is what led to his eventual defeat and death. That is flawed.

You have yet to prove Revan's flaws, mistakes, or momentary stupidity.

Edited because the last part was too hostile.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
No shit, cause thats the only time that has been documented in which it was really Revan's true self, not the players imprinted personality, which I can make an utter gullible puss or and arrogant asshat. And since there's no KOTOR 3 thats all we have to go on. I'd call the kettle black, but mine is actually a greyish tint.





Originally posted by Dr. Styles
So arrogance is justified because he's the shit? Does this change the fact that he was arrogant...no. Never said he wasn't arrogant, I said his arrogance was justified by his power and abilities. He was top of the game and frankly had reason to flaunt it.




Originally posted by Dr. Styles
According to one batshit insane old lady who hadn't seen her student in about a decade...even still whatever Revans intentions were by the time he made his holocron he was fully under the influence of the dark side, as PoD proves, Anakin's reasons were noble: he wanted to save Padmes life, Jacens motives were noble: he didn't want to kill Luke and wanted order for the galaxy, does this change the facts that they were all misguided sociopaths in the end? No, so I don't see why were making exceptions for Revan just cause you all have a ridicules hatred for the character. As you said, we've only got in-game dialog about pre-game events. Let's all just go off on a tangent for a moment and call Kreia dead wrong (or a liar): THEN Revan's nothing but a megalomaniacal sociopath.




Originally posted by Dr. Styles
So wait...

-commiting near genocide on his own troops
-literally forcing all the Jedi whom worshipped him to become Sith
-Hacked off his best friends jaw
-Massacaring the Echani
-Torturing Jedi
-Causing a massive schism in the Jedi order to use them as future Sith
-Idioticlly not telling any of his other officers or stih about his grandiose plan to save the galaxy


Are all NOT flaws, you all are just posting shit with no proof to back up your claims, Revan DOES have flaws, you all continuing to label him a perfect Gary Stu with no actual proof of him being that at all is a tad bit silly. His own words flat out PROVE he was a f*cked up individual.Before I make my point, some comments on the above bullets: 1.) Necessity. 2.) Some pretty f*cking good speeches/manipulations in the Force. 3.) Tut tut Malak, you rebellious scamp you. 4.) Necessity (I think, can't recall too well). 5.) Great way to make 'em Dark. 6.) Smarter than wiping them out (conversion is the way to go). 7.) Yeah, like they'd all follow such an ideal (don't know about you, but I wouldn't follow a nut spouting talk of an unknown invasion).


But anywho, maybe it was just the voice in my head, but you sound indignant. Gideon and I weren't b*tching about Revan's deeds, we're b*tching about his personality and his attributes. He's brilliant, charismatic, insightful... he's a wonderful mechanic, speaks like every language, a talented pilot... and he was the most powerful Force-user of his generation.

The man had everything going for him, there was no flaw in his personality or his skills. He was the perfect person for every situation. His biggest flaw was getting stabbed in the back and having his mind wiped. And that only resulted in his power GROWING.

By comparison, Nion seems more human, more fragile... more realistic, sans the controversy over his powers.

And...so he's a tragic and pathetic failure because his student turned on him on a whim? Even though withing a year he'd nearly done something that took the Banites 1000 years of plotting and waiting to do. I'm sorry but thats a tad bit stupid.

Revan was betrayed and it was his own fault (thinking Malak wouldn't turn on him the first chance he got) that alone suggests a VERY heavy ego on Revan's part that he'd give Malak that much power and not be worried about him even AFTER he hacked the dudes jaw off. That is a character flaw.




Um wut? You are aware that Revan had no memories of his past life during KOTOR when he was flat out the ONLY person who could stop Malak





So wait Revan has to be a gullible moron for you to accept him? You must have enjoyed the latest LOTF novels which dumbs down Luke to utter a buffoon, having him still plagued by fears of the dark side at 60 when he settled those issues at 23 and having him being outwitted by someone he smashed time and time again when he was 25 at 60 is just dumb. And LOL at you listing falling to the dark side as one of Skywalkers flaws when Revan you know: did the same thing, but his still a perfect little gary stu omnipotent in your little world.




We have NOTHING suggesting Revan was a godly pilot, its never stated and Carth pilots the Ebon Hawk not Revan. And so he could probably plan a military campaign better then Sidious and he could fix R2D2 if he needed to...wow those are the only two areas he beats Palpy in where as Palpatine is:


Uberly powerful in the force? Check.
Uber saber duelist? Check.
Uber strategist? Check.
Ass loads of charisma and charm? Check.
Master Manipulator? Makes the Chosen One his ***** Check.
Strongest Sith ever? Check.
Potential Immortal? Check.
Brings Sexy back? Check.

and Palpatine is not a gary stu how now?

Oh thats right its cause you like him thats why, cause he's your fav...




And Revan thinks he can single handily save himself from the darkside, the galaxy and pretty much everything from the True Sith, he much like Jacen started their roads with very good intentions yet let the Dark Side corrupt them to the point where they went from well intentioned extremist to megalomaniac sociopaths, which in the end is what DARTH Revan is and is what Caedus is, Revans need to systematically wipe out and break every prominent warrior class (Echani, Mandalorians, Jedi, Sith) to mold and unify the galaxy into a strong force under one and only one command (his) to go off and fight yet ANTHER war even though he would have just gotten done with two previous bloody campaign's WREAKS of fascist megalomania. If your going to seriously try and sit here and claim that combined with his fall to the Dark Side and his nonchalant arrogant ways toward Malak are NOT character flaws then um well: u dumb.

Unless of course your going to suggest that Revan is something of a ubermensch which Kreia's self delusions seem to want to believe

And keep out your failed little attempts at insults/humor.

Yeah that fragile little guy who mops the floor with Vaders ***** ass then proceeds to dump on Palpatine (The strongest Sith EVER) matches him at his own game Force Lightning, and put crater in the Death Star, he nearly does by himself what Luke Skywalker AND Vader, Yoda, and Obi Wan couldn't do. He makes the big bad Dark Lords of the Sith look like harmless girl scouts, makes Yoda the 800 year old most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness has ever known look like a muppet playing with a glow stick at the tender age of what... 21. And REVAN is a bigger Gary Stu then this guy? LOL.

Tangible's point was you and them are talking about two different things. They're talking about his personality while you're talking about his feats... two different things.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Tangible's point was you and them are talking about two different things. They're talking about his personality while you're talking about his feats... two different things.


So wait. Escape, who absolutely hates Revan, is arguing that he's a perfect character without flaws, while Styles, who LOVES Revan, is arguing that Revan had PLENTY of flaws.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j182/swiftian/irony/irony2.jpg

Read my post toward Gideon, he has no point.

Gideon and I have a problem with how wonderful Revan's made out to be. He's got no emotional or personality flaws, we never see (or hear of) him doubt his position. He's got a myriad of skills and abilities and is never shown to fail, to be wrong. Canonically, he's a wonderful, perfect Jedi and human being. While that's miraculous for a human, it's poor character development.

KotOR II especially, made Revan out to be a scheming genius who could manipulate people into following his cause which we find out was to save the galaxy. Kreia suggest to us that the man didn't even "fall," he uses the Dark Side (all in the most noble of goals remember) to save civilization. He couldn't even be corrupted properly.

Nion, on the other hand, doubted his purpose, and was brought up by Vader to be evil. His seems to be a tragic story, while Revan's ends (so far) in redemption and sacrifice for the greater good.

In terms of story telling and character development, Nion is a man whom you can pity, hate, like etc., and is a character you can work with. Revan is portrayed as a definitive model of Good, who turned from the Dark Side and saved the Republic. It's so cliche, so trite.

Oh please someone call the whaaambulance, your mad cause Revan has self confidence where as Starkiller is a self doubting puss? And Revan as a knight is not even portrayed as the "model jedi" the council hates him as the KOTOR comics have shown, he losses a group of his followers on Dxun and leaves them there

His dialog:

Revan: I was right! Now you'll see, the truth will be written in blood!

Lucien Draay: Which truths are you talking about?

Revan: Nevermind, I have learners to save

the comics emphasis not mine, he calles his own followers, learners. If anything it can be inferred that Revan has a holier than thou attitude, and might go as far to say he has a bit of a god complex:

EVERYONE else is wrong, he is right. Only HE can save the galaxy, Only HE can see the threat of the True Sith and only HE has what it takes to empower the galaxy enough to withstand this threat, not to mention all his life he'd been hailed as a prodigy, had a cult of followers within the Jedi Order had Jedi Knights calling him Master when he was a very young Knight himself, had Kreia hyping him up for most of his time as a Padawan and was apparently so special that the he needed multiple Masters to match his learning speed, all this would make ANYONE a bit of a arrogant d-bag, now take into account that the Dark Side amplifies emotions ten fold what do we end up with:

Darth Revan the dark Messiah like figure who happens to be a sociopath megalomaniac. And thats cool, that plus his redemption is what make him such an attractive character, to me at least.

Since when is lacking self doubt put you on the Gary Stu list?

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
Oh please someone call the whaaambulance, your mad cause Revan has self confidence where as Starkiller is a self doubting puss? And Revan as a knight is not even portrayed as the "model jedi" the council hates him as the KOTOR comics have shown, he losses a group of his followers on Dxun and leaves them there

His dialog:

Revan: I was right! Now you'll see, the truth will be written in blood!

Lucien Draay: Which truths are you talking about?

Revan: Nevermind, I have learners to save

the comics emphasis not mine, he calles his own followers, learners. If anything it can be inferred that Revan has a holier than thou attitude, and might go as far to say he has a bit of a god complex:

EVERYONE else is wrong, he is right. Only HE can save the galaxy, Only HE can see the threat of the True Sith and only HE has what it takes to empower the galaxy enough to withstand this threat, not to mention all his life he'd been hailed as a prodigy, had a cult of followers within the Jedi Order had Jedi Knights calling him Master when he was a very young Knight himself, had Kreia hyping him up for most of his time as a Padawan and was apparently so special that the he needed multiple Masters to match his learning speed, all this would make ANYONE a bit of a arrogant d-bag, now take into account that the Dark Side amplifies emotions ten fold what do we end up with:

Darth Revan the dark Messiah like figure who happens to be a sociopath megalomaniac. And thats cool, that plus his redemption is what make him such an attractive character, to me at least.

Since when is lacking self doubt put you on the Gary Stu list? I don't think we're quite on the same page here.

And remember, a Gary Stu isn't a flawless character. Wikiepedia's article on it:

"a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot on such a scale that suspension of disbelief fails due to the character's traits, skills and abilities being tenuously or inadequately justified. Such a character is particularly characterized by overly idealized and cliched mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".

Note the last sentence.

I'll try some brevity here: Revan's flaws and rebellious nature served the greater good and his redemption transformed him into the perfect Jedi. All of this, Dark and Light, was aided by top-notch, nigh-unrivaled skills.

He's the perfect hero: He fell for a noble cause, and rose again for a noble cause. He's a leader, a speaker, a tactician, a powerful Jedi, a pilot, a repairman, a polyglot. He's seen and done it all.

His story is similar to the Skywalker's, though Luke was mediocre and naive to begin with, and he grew into the hero persona. Anakin meanwhile was powerful and promising, yet fearful and angry--the tragic hero. But Revan was badass before and during his fall, and he was a badass Good guy during his redemption. He was cool, popular and talented from the get-go, and in retrospect, it's quite boring and hackneyed.

That wasn't my point, I KNOW he's a Gary Stu (in terms of his power and ability) and I have no problem with that, since your comparing him to the Skywalkers whom don't even share Revans time frame its really not a valid comparison they come from two very different era's.

HOWEVER you two are trying to assert that Revan had no personality flaws to speak of, was the perfect Jedi Knight yada yada yada, and I'm telling you: Your dead wrong, as I have proved.
You all have changed the overall topic because you've been proved wrong. it started as this:

"That's pretty much it, he's the perfect being in every other way."

"Revan's presented to be flawless."

"The man had everything going for him, there was no flaw in his personality or his skills"

Thats what I'm proving wrong, cause you see not to be rude but I don't really give a shit about how you feel about Revan's power/skills, I like that: he's a friggen awesome prodigy prick of a Jedi then he's a f*cking awesome evil genius completely nuts conqueror Sith Lord. I love it. You hate it. Who cares.

Not to mention it was Chris Avellon the writer of KOTOR 2 who made Revan into what you guys seem to hate, Drew Kapsywhatever his creator made him a legit evil and bad person in KOTOR 1 and PoD.

Oh well in that case, we don't give a shit about how you feel on the matter either.

But no, I know he's not the most powerful ever, and I personally like that he was the best of his era. I just don't like how he was coupled with a Gary Stu persona. Kind of drained some of us of empathy for his character.

And he WAS the prodigal knight. Later. Much later. When the audience no longer gives a f*ck.

By the by, if I did change the topic (can't recall doing so), it's because I couldn't be bothered reading through the whole page. It's kinda long.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
Yeah that fragile little guy who mops the floor with Vaders ***** ass then proceeds to dump on Palpatine (The strongest Sith EVER) matches him at his own game Force Lightning, and put crater in the Death Star, he nearly does by himself what Luke Skywalker AND Vader, Yoda, and Obi Wan couldn't do. He makes the big bad Dark Lords of the Sith look like harmless girl scouts, makes Yoda the 800 year old most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness has ever known look like a muppet playing with a glow stick at the tender age of what... 21. And REVAN is a bigger Gary Stu then this guy? LOL. We will have to wait and see the outcome, If this TFU jacob is overpowered then fcuk its canon status in the SW universe.

Seriously? Just how many people are able to knock a post ROTS sidious concentration? Just how many people can "tool vader let alone take a dump on palpatine"?

These new producers and designers are just attempting to use *their* character creations to overpower previous important characters.

Even bane and NJO luke were not THAT overpowered, they made this jacob fella like some star wars galactus, an overpowered bullshit character.

LOL. I'll recap for the deluded and foolish: my point was that Darth Revan was a Gary Stu. Then you ***** and whine and complain and shout and cry and throw a grade school-class bitchfit that LOLZ NO HE IS NOT! and then slide a consession in the midst of it? Too bad I spotted it, AC. You might want to change your username to Janus 2.0, because this is exactly something that he would have done. You understand and accept that Revan is a Gary Stu (by not being a complete moron) and yet want to argue the point anyways because he's your favorite. And you have the temerity to call out my bias on Palpatine?



Failed little attempts at humor? LOL. I'd ask you to do the same, but I'd imagine that that would render you completely silent. Your whole argument is a joke. Revan's a Gary Stu. The ****ing end; thank you for agreeing.

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. We can ***** all day how Lucas is all about the money, but ya know what? Its a business, and that's the point of a business. To make money. Just like the oil companies. Everyone hates raising gas prices, but if you were the CEO of that oil company and you could add a billion dollars to your yearly personal income, you'd do it. Same thing. GL wants to add something new (no matter how stupid to us) and uber to Star Wars. Obviously we don't hear of this guy at any other point in the saga, so he's not that uber. Just wait til the game comes out to make a decision on it. If you don't like it, don't buy the game.

Also, i always thought that video games come in under movie canon if it contradicts anything from the movies, or GL's own words, right?

Just wait and get the full scoop rather than listening to other people's biased opinions on what "might happen."

If someone didn't know who Revan was and read both Escape's and Style's descriptions of him, they would get two different ideas about the guy. Same thing with Jacob.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. We can ***** all day how Lucas is all about the money, but ya know what? Its a business, and that's the point of a business. To make money. Just like the oil companies. Everyone hates raising gas prices, but if you were the CEO of that oil company and you could add a billion dollars to your yearly personal income, you'd do it. Same thing. GL wants to add something new (no matter how stupid to us) and uber to Star Wars. Obviously we don't hear of this guy at any other point in the saga, so he's not that uber. Just wait til the game comes out to make a decision on it. If you don't like it, don't buy the game.

Also, i always thought that video games come in under movie canon if it contradicts anything from the movies, or GL's own words, right?

Just wait and get the full scoop rather than listening to other people's biased opinions on what "might happen."

If someone didn't know who Revan was and read both Escape's and Style's descriptions of him, they would get two different ideas about the guy. Same thing with Jacob.

I just wrote what I read from people who read the book.

I'm just saying that people very rarely report accurately and tend to allow emotion or bias influence their writings/reportings. For all we know, that be a bunch of smoke being blown up our ass about how "good" this guy is.
Although this game is the one that others will bow too (technology-wise) I'll probably rent it first before i spend $60 buying something that I think is poorly written or lacks continuity integrity.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I'm just saying that people very rarely report accurately and tend to allow emotion or bias influence their writings/reportings. For all we know, that be a bunch of smoke being blown up our ass about how "good" this guy is.
Although this game is the one that others will bow too (technology-wise) I'll probably rent it first before i spend $60 buying something that I think is poorly written or lacks continuity integrity.

Oh, the game looks ****ing amazing. I'm not that upset about this at all. And there aren't a major presence of LOLZ I LUFF STARKILLER fans there. Most of them find the idea of Starkiller versus the Emperor not ending in Starkiller's total humiliation retarded.

Wow, I wanted to refrain from calling you a total buffoon but thats what you are right now, if anyone is b*tching its you about TFU, George Lucas, Starkiller, your wuv Palpatine being mad to look like a french maid and Revan, you said:

"Revan's presented to be flawless."

"all proficiency and no personality;"

I pointed out that Revan does INDEED have personality flaws, which was ALWAYS my beef with the angry e-hate your spilling onto the character, I NEVER said Revan WASN'T a Gary Stu in terms of his power and ability, in fact I've said it before and I said it in this topic to at the start of this little b*tch fest:

"Revan has no flaws shit coming from?...Sure he's absurdly powerful but he's still a douche bag. At least pre KOTOR."

In fact I've even said it before this:

Really now, this is a bit silly, Revan is a Gary Stu, you complaining won't change that fact and as a Gary Stu he extremely powerful with few flaws

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=483989&pagenumber=3

That was back in June, now notice I said few flaws, but he does have them such as the ones I pointed out here: The god complex, ego, megalomania, and his sociopath tendencies.

YOU however where flat out stating that Revan is utter perfection, with no ill qualities what so ever, which is WRONG. You can get mad all you want pout and attempt to scorch me with your e-hate and unclever insults that got played out when I used them all last year, but this doesn't change the fact that you look like an angry baboon now, not only that but an angry baboon that seems to lack complete reading comprehension.






Why so serious? Calm down monkey, why does internet arguing get you flustered up anyways? Your just getting out of high school right, your balls have probably just dropped and your gettin some hair under your chin, good for you. Why don't you go out and use some of that testosterone on some lucky young lady instead of me on the intrawebz.




Never said he wasn't, but that wasn't the point now was it, or do you want me to spell it out for you again Would it help you if I got all pissy and started using four stars at you? Maybe you'd understand this:

RAWR Revan not be perfect u ****ing *** I ****ing hate u **** *** *** ****ing **** *** ****!!!111!!!. Did that help?

This reminds me a lot of arguing with Nebaris; it devolves into slinging around phrases like "lol i r funny but u r not" and "u better stop with teh unfunny jokes". Modesty aside, AC, only one of us is known for witty remarks and top notch verbal sparring and it isn't you. In that perspective, your declarations that my attempts at humor aren't funny don't carry the same massive weight that I'm sure your body does. So, how about this: you drop the Nebaris routine and we both stop criticising how funny the other is.



How about you take your eyes off of the KotOR comics and actually read this discussion? I haven't complained or whined or bitched about Starkiller beating Palpatine. In fact, I've been rather calm about it. If you want people who are throwing fits, you can turn to Master Crimzon and such who now find the game to be completely retarded. I've testified that I still find the game to be unimaginably appealing and I look forward to it and the novelization. So, really, "total buffoon" is a term I'd give to the debater here who is making shit up in a ridiculous attempt to commit ad hominem. He happens to share your username.

As for the other shit, we're not talking about moral or ethical issues. Though again, the game and its creators go well out of the way to justify Revan's actions with the Malcolm X idealogy "by any means necessary". Where are his blunders? Mistakes? Decisions that lead to defeat or setbacks? Those are the flaws that most of us look for in a character.

Not that it matters, since you agreed that Revan is a Gary Stu (the entire point). The only who seems to be arguing from some sort of bias is you.



Oh, Jesus Christ. This? First, stop borrowing lines from The Dark Knight; Ledger's throwing a ****ing fit from beyond the grave that you'd dare use his lines and be so lackluster with them. Second, if you're going to give me your Adult Internet Nerd's Lessons On Life, could you send me the audio version? You'll pardon me if I don't take a thirty-something-year-old seriously when he uses expressions like "your just getting out of high school" and then commenting on my balls. You're wasting your time and no one here finds you impressive. And "intrawebz"? LOL. Nebaris, let AC have his account back.

Wait a minute, when did this overpowered wigga beat palpatine?

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Wait a minute, when did this overpowered wigga beat palpatine?

Excuse me. "Stalemated, endured" rather than "beat".

Awww it thinks its people!

I find it hilarious that your claiming e-fame, AND boasting about it LULZ WUT? "I'm like soo "known" for my snarky and dry wit on a minor Star Wars vs forum!" You win the award for failure of the day, Congrats. And I'm a fatty apparently, you sir are hilarious.




Eh whatever then, I thought you were on the TFU whaaafest, my bad, you ARE however on the I hate Revan 4 evar b*tchfest.



I tire of repeating myself:

Revan was betrayed and it was his own fault (thinking Malak wouldn't turn on him the first chance he got) that alone suggests a VERY heavy ego on Revan's part that he'd give Malak that much power and not be worried about him even AFTER he hacked the dudes jaw off. That is a character flaw.

He gives his apprentice ( whose JAW he hacked off, whose probably burning with hate for his master, who Revan has purposely programmed his assassin droid to constantly disrespect Malak and apparently Revan thoroughly enjoys laughing at Malak (As HK-47 tells us ), not only that but Revan TAUGHT Malak to betray him.) enough power and loyal men to turn on him and send all his xantos gambits crashing down on a whim. Not only that but he doesn't clue his apprentice in on his little plan for the galaxy and thus inadvertently dooms it to the hands of his dumb angry club of an apprentice. All this shows Revan to be EXTREMELY arrogant. His mistakes nearly got him killed and the galaxy utterly wasted.

If you need me to make it a tinsy bit more clear:

THAT IS A CHARACTER FLAW

That was the point of the *discussion*







Hey smart guy, if your gonna try and play the: U is a old lozzer u is fat! u is ugly!!! Maybe just maybe you shouldn't be Myspace friends with the person, you have access to know how old I'am and know what I look like. And really Jess I wouldn't be insulting ANYONE else looks wonder bread. And considering your a drama lame you REALLY have no room to talk. Oh and my mistake your not getting out of high school, one more year ta go kiddo, u can do it! As for Heath while his role as the Joker was good; I'm sure you're leading female role in your high schools production of Legally Blonde the musical was EPIC.

BTW why do you keep mentioning Nebs ALL the time? I know he occupies lots of space in your mind, but please try to keep your hate/latent homoerotic love for nebs on SD.net, cry to them, they'll e-hug you.

One thing quickly: Gideon, you claimed that revan was pathetic for failing to achieve her goal. That isn't quite true. Assuming that Revan's goal was to stop the True Sith, then she succeeded, unless they took over while my back was turned.

It's a he, dumbass

WOOOOOOOOOOOW

Doesn't PIS apply on this part of the vs board?

Don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to playing the game, IF I get the funds and the ability to buy an Xbox 360 with a reasonable price tag- if that happens, you betcha I'm gonna play that game. I just found that little piece about the character 'stalemating' Palpatine after WTFpwning Vader ridiculous, and will probably end up making the experience far less satisfying, in the end.

The only 'reasonable' thing I can see for Nion to do in order to accomplish said things is for Vader to be distracted and hesitant, and for him, perhaps, going into "Uberz!!" sacrificing mode in order to somehow endure Sidious' lightning. That, cliched as it is, would make more sense than accomplishing these things based off of pure, acquired skill alone.

LOL. I've seemed to have twisted the good doctor's panties in a wad; amazing how this apparently accomplished and successful adult has managed to a.) spend so much time on an internet forum, b.) start an unnecessary argument about his favorite character, c.) manage to slide in two concessions while all the while continuing the unnecessary argument and d.) still finds the time to lecture others on their balls, testosterone, and other topics he's clearly an expert in.

Give it up, AC Nebaris. Your laughter-inspiring lecture on life is no better than my mean retaliatory comments. You have no credentials or accolades that would inspire myself or the rest of us to listen to you. In essence, you're acting no different than any other jobless thirty-year-old who uses the internet as a soap box to engage his youngers either out of a homoerotic obsession with them or because he believes that they will give him his undue attention.

Nebaris, if you don't want to get caught so easily, stop using old material.

I'm sure the predictable, enraged response is going to be awe inspiring, AC. You'll manage to slide in a third concession and prove how predictable old people really are.


Edit: Hey, now I know who you are. @@ron on my Myspace. Okay, I retract the statements that you're fat and thirty. Though the fact that you're nineteen still doesn't inspire awe and make me want to listen to you about life, since you're only two years older than me.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
One thing quickly: Gideon, you claimed that revan was pathetic for failing to achieve her goal. That isn't quite true. Assuming that Revan's goal was to stop the True Sith, then she succeeded, unless they took over while my back was turned. Question: What gland in your brain is not functioning properly for you to not understand that Revan had hanging mass between his legs? He's a guy you retard.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Question: What gland in your brain is not functioning properly for you to not understand that Revan had hanging mass between his legs? He's a guy you retard.

Have you ever been to Kentucky? It's my understanding that its native people have hanging mass from between their legs all the time and aren't, necessarily, men.

By the way, Karen Traviss's Clone Wars novel is pretty damn good.

You're mother was pretty damn good.

Originally posted by Gideon
Have you ever been to Kentucky? It's my understanding that its native people have hanging mass from between their legs all the time and aren't, necessarily, men. I blame it on the Colonel. Crafty bastard with his spicy genetic mutations.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
You're mother was pretty damn good.

a.) It's YOUR, you bastard!

b.) My madre, padre, and self were all born in Pennsylvania.

Originally posted by Gideon
a.) It's YOUR, you bastard!

Not in Blaxica it's not.



R-relevance?

All right I'm bored of the RAGE being thrown around time to get all serious and such, oh well it was fun while it lasted...

I didn't know admitting when your wrong (claiming you were on the TFU whaambulance) was a bad thing. As I said I NEVER said Revan WASN'T a Gary Stuish character in terms of his power and ability. My entire point in this was to prove that Revan does indeed have his flaws in terms of his personality, while you all were claiming he was "the second coming" and perfect". These character flaws that I showed proved to be a detriment to his overall goals (the definition of a character flaw that you seemed to require) , which I've shown repeatedly, and your dodging of my actual point only serves to stress how right I am. Your "argument" in a nutshell of Revan is Jesus is done, its been shown to be false and its on you to admit it.





Yeah, Myspace puts a dent in the "you a fat loser oldie" approach doesn't it...




Never said you should, but its helpful advice to not take the internets nor star wars arguing with the level of seriousness that you give it. I only engaged in this ol little flame war cause A. Its amusing, and B. Ima bit of a douche bag...

Some people use that boredom line as a means of backing out of a situation they find unwinnable. I'm curious if that's happening here or not. Anyways, AC, I will concede that Revan's betrayal at Malak's hands was a major screw up on his part, but that does not necessarily mean that he isn't a Gary Stu, since it was just one major **** up. We both agree that he's a Gary Stu, but we have a disagreement as to why.



If I may quote the Philosopher Aaron, "I didn't think admitting you're wrong is a bad thing."

Oh, and as far as dodging points, I'm not the one backing out of this argument.

Though it was pretty amusing from this end too.

I'm backing out cause there's no point in going on, I wasn't trying to "win" or prove Revan wasn't a gary stu, only prove the argument I presented was right, in which I did (though I guess I was trying to win in that regard). Once that was done there is really no point in continuing other then to rage and type "*'s" at each other over the webs, which is, you know: lame.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
I'm backing out cause there's no point in going on, I wasn't trying to "win" or prove Revan wasn't a gary stu, only prove the argument I presented was right, in which I did (though I guess I was trying to win in that regard). Once that was done there is really no point in continuing other then to rage and type "*'s" at each other over the webs, which is, you know: lame.

No hard feelings on my end either. It was actually pretty damn entertaining.

Awe, it's over? I just fixed some popcorn.

Aw, Crap. I missed it.

Stupid Soul Calibur. Anyway if the Apprentice is anything like he is in that game then he wins every time, limbless.