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Heres a thought who do you like more or who would you worship Greek Gods or Norse gods? This topic kinda of came up when I think to myself why I like the Norse gods opposed to Greek god.

Lets face it at the end of the day if you want to worship the Greek gods its a matter of opinion and I know some people still do today, but I find myself asking why would you want to do that?

First of all it seems that the Greeks gods are really untrustworthy, capricious and jealous. All through Greek mythology there are examples of the Greek gods punishing man at a whim. Can't remember the exact details but there is a myth of a man who accidently saw Artemis naked and gets killed because Artemis was outraged...im sure you could think of other examples.

There are also some WTF moments for example Promotheus is punished by the gods for helping mankind.....I mean c'mon man, wtf I thought you gods had our back. On top of that they send Pandora to earth as a punishment.

Sure myths are to not to be taken literially but at the same time as a worshipper of the Greek gods it would make me nervous worshipping them.

Ok so lets look at the Norse gods...are they perfect, nope. By and large though the Norse gods help each other and mankind and are generally a team. The exceptions to the rule are Loki and Odin.

Loki, what do you expect he is the god of mischief alot of people don't know though that when Loki does something wrong he actually trys to make up for what hes done and the gods end up benefitting from it.

Odin can be quite scarey but even when he does something 'bad', theres tends to be a good reason for it, for examples Odin tends to kill his followers in battle but the reason for this is because he needs his followers at Raganarok to fight Fenris. In one story he kills some peasents but he does this because he wants to gain the trust of a giant so he can steal something from from him and help mankind....you might disagree with the methods but at least his intentions are pure.

Out of all the myths I can really only think of one example where Thor does something that makes you think WTF. All the other gods are pretty reliable and trustworthy. Its just seems to me you cannot like The Greek Gods in an objective sense, you could only worship them if you have an infatuation with Greek culture where you ignore the negative actions of the gods.

Anyway thoughts?

I always thought Zeus was kewl and could take Odin but your point well taken bout Odin usually having a good reason for being wrathful....I wouldnt worship any of them but Thor according to comics..lol.. was protector of mankind(Totally different kinda thor in comics though)...herakles hercules whatever was protector of man also both sons were known for protecting earth at the expense of pissing off daddy...lol...I personally wonder if those "gods" were in fact real beings created by the breeding of angels with other beings???(recent thought of mine pending deep research) but anyways I always thought Zeus was the more powerful of the two but Odin in comics sometimes seemed more all around powerful if the two ever engaged in battle....true research on the mythology of the two I have not finished just really begun...as the idea of them actually existing before the flood came across my path....and by NO means do I mean to say they were actual gods...just powerful spiritual beings that God himself had to do away with as they were abominations maybe? OIh and about Loki he was adopted wasnt he or was that just comics too...suppose to be offspring off Odins enemies killed his parents or something...something like that

Greek and Norse Gods act like humans. People tend to associate with what ressembles them, even if it's not perfection. For us, it is much more plausible to imagine an imperfect God than a perfect God.

Originally posted by Mandos
Greek and Norse Gods act like humans. People tend to associate with what ressembles them, even if it's not perfection. For us, it is much more plausible to imagine an imperfect God than a perfect God.

Thats true.....but I thought that reliability was usually a universally accepted positive trait.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats true.....but I thought that reliability was usually a universally accepted positive trait.

The Greeks and Norse Gods weren't reliable. In past times, they could explain their loss of power or battle that way. They just said that the Gods didn't help them on the field.

Take this principle and apply it in our world today. It is strangely reconforting to know a God with us and that when we lose, blame that he wasn't there, than to fail while having a perfect omnipotent and omnipresent God looking aftert you.

If I was born 2000 years ago, it would probably make more sense to me to worships those Greek and Norse Gods than the Christian God.

fenris wud prolly destroy most of the greek pantheon.

Originally posted by Mandos
The Greeks and Norse Gods weren't reliable. In past times, they could explain their loss of power or battle that way. They just said that the Gods didn't help them on the field.

Take this principle and apply it in our world today. It is strangely reconforting to know a God with us and that when we lose, blame that he wasn't there, than to fail while having a perfect omnipotent and omnipresent God looking aftert you.

If I was born 2000 years ago, it would probably make more sense to me to worships those Greek and Norse Gods than the Christian God.

Thats not what this thread is about. I can't prove that if I pray to Thor I will be luckier than if I pray to Zeus. What im doing is looking at the myths of both Greek and Norse gods and making a judgement on who I should worship based on how they behaved in the myths....you are talking about something different.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
fenris wud prolly destroy most of the greek pantheon.

Are you taking the piss?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats not what this thread is about. I can't prove that if I pray to Thor I will be luckier than if I pray to Zeus. What im doing is looking at the myths of both Greek and Norse gods and making a judgement on who I should worship based on how they behaved in the myths....you are talking about something different.



Are you taking the piss?

You should read Homer's Illiad. That would be the best example to comprehend what you are asking. I've read it and it blew my mind. Each Troy and the Greeks had their own God to worship, all cooperating on Mount Olympus. The way the interactions went was tremendously powerful.

Originally posted by Mandos
You should read Homer's Illiad. That would be the best example to comprehend what you are asking. I've read it and it blew my mind. Each Troy and the Greeks had their own God to worship, all cooperating on Mount Olympus. The way the interactions went was tremendously powerful.

I haven't read that but from the myths ive read there is alot of in-fighting and backstabbing with the gods and lots of examples of them punishing mankind on a whim.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I haven't read that but from the myths ive read there is alot of in-fighting and backstabbing with the gods and lots of examples of them punishing mankind on a whim.

Yes, your myths told you right. Fascinating, isn't it?

Originally posted by Mandos
Yes, your myths told you right. Fascinating, isn't it?

Not really your just being a dick because I haven't read the Illiad. I have read alot of myths but not the Illiad. I'll keep an open mind and read the illiad until then. However most of the myths I have read have not been positive. Not a simple concept to undertsand and theres no need to act like an obnoxious ****.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really your just being a dick because I haven't read the Illiad. I have read alot of myths but not the Illiad. I'll keep an open mind and read the illiad until then. However most of the myths I have read have not been positive. Not a simple concept to undertsand and theres no need to act like an obnoxious ****.

I've read what I wrote, and I understand your frustration. I did not intend to denigrate you. I really sayed it was facinating, because it IS fascinating. I'm a big mythology fan, and I've read alot of mythical stories.

Originally posted by Mandos
I've read what I wrote, and I understand your frustration. I did not intend to denigrate you. I really sayed it was facinating, because it IS fascinating. I'm a big mythology fan, and I've read alot of mythical stories.

Sorry im a bit of a hot-head.

Anyway what exactly were you refering to in the Illiad> How people worshipped them or the actual actions of the gods. I could be wrong but I thought the Illiad was more to do with human heroes not the gods.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Sorry im a bit of a hot-head.

Anyway what exactly were you refering to in the Illiad> How people worshipped them or the actual actions of the gods. I could be wrong but I thought the Illiad was more to do with human heroes not the gods.

As am I, all is forgiven.

thor>hercules
odin>zeus
fenris>hades
yygrassil>olympus

NORSE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!

lmao

Zeus and the other greeks defeated the Titans.

Also, Fenris is killed by having his jaws ripped apart during Ragnarok, he isn't unstoppable.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Sorry im a bit of a hot-head.

Anyway what exactly were you refering to in the Illiad> How people worshipped them or the actual actions of the gods. I could be wrong but I thought the Illiad was more to do with human heroes not the gods.

What is funny in the Illiad is that, actually, humans are peons moved on the chessboards by the Gods. It seems they settle their differences playing chess with humans.

Greek: generally better stories
Norse: cooler costumes

The golden showers, bestiality, pederasty, rape and incest all do it for you, eh?

...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


First of all it seems that the Greeks gods are really untrustworthy, capricious and jealous. All through Greek mythology there are examples of the Greek gods punishing man at a whim. Can't remember the exact details but there is a myth of a man who accidently saw Artemis naked and gets killed because Artemis was outraged...im sure you could think of other examples.

There are also some WTF moments for example Promotheus is punished by the gods for helping mankind.....I mean c'mon man, wtf I thought you gods had our back. On top of that they send Pandora to earth as a punishment.

Sure myths are to not to be taken literially but at the same time as a worshipper of the Greek gods it would make me nervous worshipping them.

In addition to the reasons you listed, if your wife had a nice ass, the Greeks are tappin that. Guaranteed.

Zeus would shape-shift into an exact replica of your husband while he was off at war or at the market

Even though the Norse Gods were all about warfare, and who wants that, I'd rather kick it with them than the Greeks.

Originally posted by Robtard
The golden showers, bestiality, pederasty, rape and incest all do it for you, eh?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057197/

Actually, Ray Harryhausen fx and Nancy Kovack

Originally posted by leonheartmm
thor>hercules
odin>zeus
fenris>hades
yygrassil>olympus

NORSE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!

lmao

Serioulsy what is your problem? Either contribute to the discussion or just get lost. Its not about who you thinks more powerful its about how would you rather trust based on the actions of the gods in mythology, read the bloody stipulation of this thread and stop acting like a @*#%ing moron.


Originally posted by Mindship
Greek: generally better stories
Norse: cooler costumes

Well thats purely subjective.






Originally posted by Darth Creasy
In addition to the reasons you listed, if your wife had a nice ass, the Greeks are tappin that. Guaranteed.

Zeus would shape-shift into an exact replica of your husband while he was off at war or at the market

Even though the Norse Gods were all about warfare, and who wants that, I'd rather kick it with them than the Greeks.

War was just part of life but they dealt with many other things as well.

I always was more interested in Norse mythology as opposed to Greek.

If it was a fight, the Norse would kick the Greek's collective ass. The Greek gods were all petulant children., the Norse gods were built for war.

Originally posted by Robtard
Zeus and the other greeks defeated the Titans.

Also, Fenris is killed by having his jaws ripped apart during Ragnarok, he isn't unstoppable.

Ok but thats not what this thread is about.



Originally posted by Strangelove
I always was more interested in Norse mythology as opposed to Greek.

If it was a fight, the Norse would kick the Greek's collective ass. The Greek gods were all petulant children., the Norse gods were built for war.

Ok but its not about who you think is more powerful. The norse gods aere not all about fighting. Hell the whole reason why Iceland exists today is because people wanted to get away from the violence in Norway.

Originally posted by Strangelove
I always was more interested in Norse mythology as opposed to Greek.

If it was a fight, the Norse would kick the Greek's collective ass. The Greek gods were all petulant children., the Norse gods were built for war.

In a sense, it is true.

Originally posted by Mindship
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057197/

Actually, Ray Harryhausen fx and Nancy Kovack

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097289/

Very funny.

This is a difficult one...to be honest I find the Greek Gods were Gods of a far superior society...thus I must assume worshiping them is a good idea...plus they are cleaner!

In saying that, we should really throw the Egyptian Gods into the equation...especially if its a war!

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
This is a difficult one...to be honest I find the Greek Gods were Gods of a far superior society...thus I must assume worshiping them is a good idea...plus they are cleaner!

Why were they far superior? I dunno man thats pretty insulting.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

In saying that, we should really throw the Egyptian Gods into the equation...especially if its a war!

Thats NOT what this thread is about.....uhhhhhh.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Why were they far superior? I dunno man thats pretty insulting.

The Greeks vs the Norse Peoples?

Philosophy, Science, Politics, the Arts...all far outweigh what the germanic peoples were producing at this time ofcourse the Democracy of Athens is perhaps the key to their brilliance.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats NOT what this thread is about.....uhhhhhh.

I apologise Mr. Hitler, I didn't realise this thread was your property last time I checked, when a user starts a topic it can go in pretty much any direction it pleases that is the nature of conversation after all... especially considering the terrible title you gave the thread what did you expect people to think it was about? Also considering the fact I answered your question in the first part of my response I think I am more than entitled to discuss what other users are discussing in the second part of my reply... Again I apologise and will be sure to withdraw from your little Reich.

Nordic clans had Gods for multiple reasons, but the true meaning of existence for them were Ragnarok, a big battle where all Gods would die, the end of the world if you will.

The Greeks did not have such destiny written, and were more human than most Nordic Gods. they each had their weaknesses. Women were Zeus hehe. But they symbolize a culture far more advanced than the Norse. It makes them more powerful in a sense, even if the Norse Gods were beautifully representated.

I suspect this is why we learn Greek gods being yound, and toss aside the Northern stories, which does not mean they were bad.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I apologise Mr. Hitler, I didn't realise this thread was your property... last time I checked, when a user starts a topic it can go in pretty much any direction it pleases... that is the nature of conversation after all

True.

It could go even deeper if we include the Egyptian Gods.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

In saying that, we should really throw the Egyptian Gods into the equation...especially if its a war!

That'd be interesting, though gut instinct tell me to bet on the Norse ****ers in a full out war between the Norse, Greek and Gyppos.

Originally posted by Robtard
That'd be interesting, though gut instinct tell me to bet on the Norse ****ers in a full out war between the Norse, Greek and Gyppos.

You always go to the safest bet, huh?

I would put my money on the Egyptians.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
The Greeks vs the Norse Peoples?

Philosophy, Science, Politics, the Arts...all far outweigh what the germanic peoples were producing at this time...ofcourse the Democracy of Athens is perhaps the key to their brilliance.

They also used to molest little boys and they treated women like dirt> Of course the Norse where not angels either but they do seem to be better if only slightly. I don't know about this democracy it seems to me that it is partially blown out of proportion didn't they force people to vote?

At the end of the day the Norse people may have been more simpler but I dont see how that makes Greek society superior. Im pretty sure there are laws that we have today which orginated from the Norse since law is a word of Norse origin. They did have culture as well and laws its not like they just ran around chopping each other up.

As far as im concerned the Celtic society was far superior to the Romans and The Greeks.


Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

I apologise Mr. Hitler, I didn't realise this thread was your property... last time I checked, when a user starts a topic it can go in pretty much any direction it pleases... that is the nature of conversation after all... especially considering the terrible title you gave the thread... what did you expect people to think it was about? Also considering the fact I answered your question in the first part of my response I think I am more than entitled to discuss what other users are discussing in the second part of my reply... Again I apologise and will be sure to withdraw from your little Reich.

You are missing the point. I was under the impression that you are misunderstanding the purpose of the thread, yes you can talk about what you like in the thread but posts like this are pissing me off.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
fenris wud prolly destroy most of the greek pantheon.

It seems some people are getting the impression that I made this thread to say which pantheon would beat the other pantheon in a fight.

Originally posted by Mandos
You always go to the safest bet, huh?

I would put my money on the Egyptians.

If by "safest" you mean the one that I preceive to have the highest chance of winning, yes, yes I do.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
They also used to molest little boys and they treated women like dirt> Of course the Norse where not angels either but they do seem to be better if only slightly. I don't know about this democracy it seems to me that it is partially blown out of proportion didn't they force people to vote?

At the end of the day the Norse people may have been more simpler but I dont see how that makes Greek society superior. Im pretty sure there are laws that we have today which orginated from the Norse since law is a word of Norse origin. They did have culture as well and laws its not like they just ran around chopping each other up.

Proper to germanic tribes, they had what we called women screamers.

Basically, they took their women, applied some basic training in warfare, and were sent in the frontlines. Their goal was to scream and charge the other army, taking their heart out of battle.

Many women went in search of a life without men (Amazons if you will).

Yes, Greeks had their issues, but so did the Northern tribes.

Originally posted by Mandos
Proper to germanic tribes, they had what we called women screamers.

Basically, they took their women, applied some basic training in warfare, and were sent in the frontlines. Their goal was to scream and charge the other army, taking their heart out of battle.

Source please never heard this before. Sure your not getting the Celts mixed up with Germanic tribes? This migt be true for Germanic tribes but I am talking about the Norse people not the Germanic people.


Originally posted by Mandos

Many women went in search of a life without men (Amazons if you will).

Yes, Greeks had their issues, but so did the Northern tribes.

Yes they did but they did seem to have more rights but not by much I think.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Source please never heard this before.

I'm too lazy to search, but I know it's true, so there won't be a problem finding that on internet. They even made a unit on Rome total war about them. And they don't put shit in that game let me tell you hehe.

No, the Celts and Northern are two different things.

Originally posted by Mandos
I'm too lazy to search, but I know it's true, so there won't be a problem finding that on internet.

Mate ive done alot of research on Norse society and i've never come across that.

Originally posted by Mandos

They even made a unit on Rome total war about them. And they don't put shit in that game let me tell you hehe.

No, the Celts and Northern are two different things.

Thats what im talking about you seem to be talking about a different time period. You also ahve to bear in mind that there is a good chance you are getting The Celts mixed up with The German tribes. The Celtic and Germanic tribes used to mix and also Tacitus seems to ahve got the tribes mixed up or at least scholars have.

That serioulsy sounds like a Celtic tradition. In Celtic society women took part in war, in Norse socitey it was much more rarer.

Nope, I 'm not mixing the gallic and Brittania with the Germanics.

Originally posted by Mandos
Nope, I 'm not mixing the gallic and Brittania with the Germanics.


I could be wrong but I think you are due to the reasons given. Even if you are not im pretty sure this was not a custom in Norse society, it may have been in The Germanic period.

I also can't see anything on the internet.

You weren't talking about the germanic times, no?

Originally posted by Mandos
You weren't talking about the germanic times, no?

Well I am talking about the Norse gods so if I was refering to Norse culture I would be refering to the Viking era...but like I said if you are talking about The Germanic era there is good chance you could be wrong.

Germanic tribes and Celtic tribes used to mix alot, and apparently even Tacitus (Roman historian) got the tribes mixed up.

If Germanic tribes actually used to do this wouldn't they have taken this tradiation with them to Scandanvia?

I'm talking about the germanic tribes arround 150 B.C.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I don't know about this democracy it seems to me that it is partially blown out of proportion didn't they force people to vote?

...


Is all I have to say.

The Amazons are mythological, as far as I know, there never was an all powerful female warrior clan of any considerable size.

Boudicca, dubbed "The Celtic warrior queen" lead several uprises against the Romans, but her army wasn't compromised of just women.

Oh I didn't say the women were strong. They were used as a demoralizer, and got killed in each battle.

Originally posted by Mandos
Oh I didn't say the women were strong. They were used as a demoralizer, and got killed in each battle.

Huh? Where did you get your info from?

It was in a book. Let me the weekend and I might be able to find it and scan it.

Originally posted by Robtard
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097289/

Very funny.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well thats purely subjective. Purely.

Originally posted by Mandos
I'm talking about the germanic tribes arround 150 B.C.

Yes and if you are there is a good chance that you got them mixed up with Celtic tirbes because they intermingled alot.

Why wasn't this practiced in Scandinvia? All the evidence indicates you are wrong.



Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
...


Is all I have to say.

Look I think you are being really unfair here. Im not saying that Democracy in Greece was a pile of shit and they don't deserve any credit for it I am just pretty sure that there were negative aspects of the demorcay and its not as perfect as people think. Im pretty sure that some Greek scholars did not like some of the things that people were doing (but I could be wrong) but I can't give you a quote off the top of my head.

I also made some other valid point you completely ignored it and just focused on that last particular section. What about the rights of women? What about how they treated children, so you're just going to focus on that part of my post and ignor everything else....c'mon man.

Also there was democracy in Iceland which was part of Norse society. So just because The Greeks had democracy doesn.t neccesarily make them superior.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Look I think you are being really unfair here. Im not saying that Democracy in Greece was a pile of shit and they don't deserve any credit for it I am just pretty sure that there were negative aspects of the demorcay and its not as perfect as people think. Im pretty sure that some Greek scholars did not like some of the things that people were doing (but I could be wrong) but I can't give you a quote off the top of my head.

You should go find one.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I also made some other valid point you completely ignored it and just focused on that last particular section. What about the rights of women? What about how they treated children, so you're just going to focus on that part of my post and ignor everything else....c'mon man.

Rights of Women? Thats an anachronism. You can't judge an ancient society by modern standards- which people tend to do to often. Try putting things in context.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Also there was democracy in Iceland which was part of Norse society. So just because The Greeks had democracy doesn.t neccesarily make them superior.

Well...really it does.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
You should go find one.

Couldn't find it. If I do find it i'll let you know

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

Rights of Women? Thats an anachronism. You can't judge an ancient society by modern standards- which people tend to do to often. Try putting things in context.

Im not using modern standards. So what are you trying to tell me that looking after the rights of women and children is modern. The Celts gave women more rights than they probably do in some countries today, I guess the Celts were 'modern'...on no thats not it they were more civilised. The Celts also gave children alot of rights as well. Context has nothing to do with it.


Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

Well...really it does.

Wait, wait, wait. Lets see if I can get this straight. The Norse people had democracy but because The Greeks had the same thing that makes them superior?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wait, wait, wait. Lets see if I can get this straight. The Norse people had democracy but because The Greeks had the same thing that makes them superior?

The Norse didn't have democracy.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Serioulsy what is your problem? Either contribute to the discussion or just get lost. Its not about who you thinks more powerful its about how would you rather trust based on the actions of the gods in mythology, read the bloody stipulation of this thread and stop acting like a @*#%ing moron.




Well thats purely subjective.








War was just part of life but they dealt with many other things as well.

seriously you have the gungnir shoved up your ass, thats the only problem here.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
The Norse didn't have democracy.

Yes they did. They had a democracy in Iceland I told you that already.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes they did. They had a democracy in Iceland I told you that already.

haha, no they did not...

how did this "democracy" work?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
haha, no they did not...

how did this "democracy" work?

Now you're just wasting my time. If you're going to be like that then forget it. Its like debating with a racist.

Also considering that you are a Christain and you consider the opression of womens rights acceptable because they didn't think like modern people is pretty disgraceful as well.

Originally posted by Mindship
Greek: generally better stories
Norse: cooler costumes

Yeah, most the same otherwise. In certain societies they were adorned with what might be admirably adorned.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Now you're just wasting my time. If you're going to be like that then forget it. Its like debating with a racist.

Haha...so you don't know how this democracy worked? Or is that because it wasn't a democracy?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Also considering that you are a Christian and you consider the oppression of womens rights acceptable because they didn't think like modern people is pretty disgraceful as well.

Actually...I didn't say I did...I just repeated the guidelines of the University of Edinburgh School of History and Archeology on Essays concerning the Ancient World...its pretty clear, don't use anachronisms, its sort of like accusing them all of being pedophiles- it just doesn't make sense.

So my being a "Christian" means I therefore consider the oppression of woman acceptable?

This conversation is funny.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No the fact you are using time as a justification for oppression of rights.



What you described wasn't a democracy...

Is it possible that when you are actually a bigot who when faced with alternative ideas feel the need to launch a person attack against a person's religion and call them sexist and imply they are also racist?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
No, it is not.

Saying its not does not make it so. It fits the definiton of a democracy and the person who wrote the wiki article has done alot of research and considers it to be a form of democracy.



Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

Again, I think the situation here is that your a bully who instead of having a peaceful discussion instead has to resort of flaming...

Ok can we start again then? Ok im sorry for being agressive but I don't really see why I can't take offence to this statement.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
This is a difficult one...to be honest I find the Greek Gods were Gods of a far superior society...thus I must assume worshiping them is a good idea...plus they are cleaner!



I don't know thats not really a nice things to say is it? I suspect you probably didn't know that I consider Heathenism to be my religon either, but if I told a Christian that the early Christians were smelly I would not be suprised if they took offence



Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

Your points are pretty opaque to be honest- but responding to them would give your bigoted ways some sort of justification.

Im not arguing that the Norse are far superior, so I can't be a bigot.

Umm, well, I'm glad that when I left this discussion was moving... perhaps not in the way I was hoping for?

1. People of that time weren't so different for one another. Most were barbaric, some were more advanced in humanism. The Greeks have forged a democracy, which made them the Meditteranian country leader for hundreds of years. Iceland had a democracy installed, yes, but the truth was that they had a hard time applying it. It wasn't as constant as the Greeks, who took real pride in their system, and respected it. So therefore, the Greeks were, as Gran Moff Gav stated, superior in the many ways that derived from this stable democracy.

2. I would not insult Gran Moff Gav on his religion. Christianity brings people to close their minds more often than the contrary, however he seems to be aware of that and doesn't let it happen. You should have respect for him in that mean.

3. Respect has been lost on both sides, which kept this thread from the sanity level recquired to discuss peacefully. I suggest you both apologize for comments or the way you commented to the other.

4. I declare myself high king of the world and of this religion topic forum.

Wow. This thread is just proof that we're all an argumentative lot. The first post just wanted a discussion about two myths, and I'm going to assume that no one here worships the ancient Greek or Norse gods, so this isn't a debate that's close to people's hearts like religion. It's basically asking which set of stories do you enjoy better. Now we're talking about racism and sexism, which is funny considering that two men are arguing about women's rights in ancient times. Am I the only one who finds this amusing?

I'm going to go back on topic and discuss the gods and not the cultures' ideas about democracy or lack thereof. I always preferred the Greek myths because they made more sense to me. The Greek gods are pretty much just like the X-Men: they're people who have really big powers. They aren't loving, all-knowing entities and humanity is often way down on their priorities. But that's not what makes the stories charming. You don't read about Aphrodite and Persephone fighting over Adonis expecting to have your faith renewed in these gods. You read Greek myths because they're a soap opera. Zeus had sex with anything that had an orifice, tricked one of his brothers into being the lord of the Underworld, and did nothing to help his countless children stay out of trouble. He's not a god. He's a flawed superhero and that's fun to read.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Wow. This thread is just proof that we're all an argumentative lot. The first post just wanted a discussion about two myths, and I'm going to assume that no one here worships the ancient Greek or Norse gods, so this isn't a debate that's close to people's hearts like religion. It's basically asking which set of stories do you enjoy better. Now we're talking about racism and sexism, which is funny considering that two men are arguing about women's rights in ancient times. Am I the only one who finds this amusing?

I'm going to go back on topic and discuss the gods and not the cultures' ideas about democracy or lack thereof. I always preferred the Greek myths because they made more sense to me. The Greek gods are pretty much just like the X-Men: they're people who have really big powers. They aren't loving, all-knowing entities and humanity is often way down on their priorities. But that's not what makes the stories charming. You don't read about Aphrodite and Persephone fighting over Adonis expecting to have your faith renewed in these gods. You read Greek myths because they're a soap opera. Zeus had sex with anything that had an orifice, tricked one of his brothers into being the lord of the Underworld, and did nothing to help his countless children stay out of trouble. He's not a god. He's a flawed superhero and that's fun to read.

I'm falling more and more in love with you by the day.

Care to seduce me with some educated comments then?

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Care to seduce me with some educated comments then?

Mmm, one thing I've learned is that, here on this forum, when one posts a comment, he is sure to get kicked until his back is at the wall. Since I can speak for hours of any of the topics discussed here, but can only write the approximation of 45 seconds of speech within each posts, I will therefore deliver my thoughts when I judge the time to be appropriate, for I am far from an intellectual who keeps all to himself and doesn't share his knowledge with others. No, I will share in due time, but right now am focusing on bringing everyone back on their two feet, for I fear some are tempered enough to crash any points that might see the light of day.

And don't worry, I'll end up seducing, either with my intellectual knowledge, or with my ability to act like a clown.

Originally posted by Mandos

Iceland had a democracy installed, yes, but the truth was that they had a hard time applying it. It wasn't as constant as the Greeks, who took real pride in their system, and respected it. So therefore, the Greeks were, as Gran Moff Gav stated, superior in the many ways that derived from this stable democracy.



With all due respect you said that germanic tribes used their women in battle im still waiting for proof.

Have you got any proof that The Icelanders had a hard time applying it and that it was less constant than the Greeks?

Originally posted by Mandos
I suggest you both apologize for comments or the way you commented to the other.




I've already apologised.


Originally posted by willofthewisp
Wow. This thread is just proof that we're all an argumentative lot. The first post just wanted a discussion about two myths, and I'm going to assume that no one here worships the ancient Greek or Norse gods, so this isn't a debate that's close to people's hearts like religion. It's basically asking which set of stories do you enjoy better. Now we're talking about racism and sexism, which is funny considering that two men are arguing about women's rights in ancient times. Am I the only one who finds this amusing?

Yes I do worship the Norse god, no I don't find this amusing.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes I do worship the Norse god

But there were several. Nonetheless, hows that been working out for you?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
no I don't find this amusing.

I believe she was referring to men debating over women's rights.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
With all due respect you said that germanic tribes used their women in battle im still waiting for proof.

Have you got any proof that The Icelanders had a hard time applying it and that it was less constant than the Greeks?




I've already apologised.




Yes I do worship the Norse god, no I don't find this amusing.

You know, I'm not saying that the Greek Gods deserved more respect than the Northern Gods. If I had to choose, I'd probably pick the Northern Gods myself.

For the warrior women I haven't had time to look where I wanted. As for the iceland democracy, well, you don't need my help. A little research from your side is all that is needed. I did mine.

Originally posted by Mandos
You know, I'm not saying that the Greek Gods deserved more respect than the Northern Gods. If I had to choose, I'd probably pick the Northern Gods myself.

I know.

Originally posted by Mandos

For the warrior women I haven't had time to look where I wanted. As for the iceland democracy, well, you don't need my help. A little research from your side is all that is needed. I did mine.

Well anyway I gave my reasons why I think you could have got it wrong.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
There were several what?

Norse gods.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Is that a genuine question?

Yup.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes she was, I still don't find anything amusing.

What a sad way to live.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Norse gods.



Yup.



What a sad way to live.

Go and find somebody else to piss off.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Go and find somebody else to piss off.

By asking reasonable questions?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
By asking reasonable questions?

The question is reasonable but I don't think you are being genuine. I think you're just trying to irritate me due to the sarcastic comments.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
With all due respect you said that germanic tribes used their women in battle im still waiting for proof.

Have you got any proof that The Icelanders had a hard time applying it and that it was less constant than the Greeks?




I've already apologised.




Yes I do worship the Norse god, no I don't find this amusing.

If you can't find amusement in the fact that adults (presumably) come to a forum to argue and dissect even the smallest points of other people's arguments and debate to the extent that we've resorted to the subject of "which ancient culture had the better democracy," then I don't know how you'll last around here.

Which Norse god do you worship? You might want to write in to all the mythology books out there with disclaimers and introductions that all these gods have no contemporary followers. Just what all goes into worshipping a Norse god?

Mandos....I have no idea what to do with you.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Mandos....I have no idea what to do with you.

My psychologist said the same thing last week.

Does anybody know of a good Norse epic to really compare to something like The Iliad or The Odyssey? I always liked both of those stories very much, but I know the Norse people had sagas and many rich stories of their own. Are their any epics like that?

Originally posted by willofthewisp
If you can't find amusement in the fact that adults (presumably) come to a forum to argue and dissect even the smallest points of other people's arguments and debate to the extent that we've resorted to the subject of "which ancient culture had the better democracy," then I don't know how you'll last around here.


In the grand scheme of things it doesnt really matter if i don't last on a discussion forum. I tend to take things serioulsy and im a little hot headed but im alright really.

Originally posted by willofthewisp

Which Norse god do you worship?

I don't have any official rituals yet but its mainly Thor and the alfs (elves)

Originally posted by willofthewisp


You might want to write in to all the mythology books out there with disclaimers and introductions that all these gods have no contemporary followers. Just what all goes into worshipping a Norse god?



No people still worship Thor, Odin etc. the religon is called Asatru, Odinism (I find that term insulting) or heathenism.

What does it involve? Well its not like Abrahamic religons alot of it is really commmon sense. It doesnt have any dogma or anything like that but obvoulsy you are supposed to treat others the way you want to be treated etc etc.

There are some official rituals but like I said I have not started doing it on an official basis. To cut along story short it would just involve some reasearch into the relgion and some common sense. For example if you worship Thor you may wish to make an oferring or do something special for the god on Thursday there are no hard and fast rules but obvosuly people who like Norse culture will like this religon and would take some customs from the Norse people.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Does anybody know of a good Norse epic to really compare to something like The Iliad or The Odyssey? I always liked both of those stories very much, but I know the Norse people had sagas and many rich stories of their own. Are their any epics like that?



Which involved humans and Gods in an tangeled story like the Illiad and the Odessey? No. I've read read both, very good book. And no such things exist in the Northern culture. It was more that the Gods have a story of their own.

If you are interested, two I could refer to you is Thor's tale, of killing frost giants. Another one would be Loki and his children, all full of mischief, which led down to Ragnarok, or the death of all Gods.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Does anybody know of a good Norse epic to really compare to something like The Iliad or The Odyssey? I always liked both of those stories very much, but I know the Norse people had sagas and many rich stories of their own. Are their any epics like that?



Volksung sagas is an epic I can think of. Not an epic but I love this,

http://www.ragweedforge.com/havamal.html

Basically its a poem and the speaker is Odin. To heathens its kinda like the ten commandments because throughout the poem Odin is giving advice and words of wisdom.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Does anybody know of a good Norse epic to really compare to something like The Iliad or The Odyssey? I always liked both of those stories very much, but I know the Norse people had sagas and many rich stories of their own. Are their any epics like that?



The Sword of the Volsungs. The Ring Cycle (actually that might not be written by Norse). Odin the Wanderer isn't exactly an epic but it is similar. If you're more interested in the characters and are open minded about slightly different takes on them you could also read some of the recent arcs from the Thor comics, which are very well written and some are written in the style of an epic.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Volksung sagas is an epic I can think of. Not an epic but I love this,

http://www.ragweedforge.com/havamal.html

Basically its a poem and the speaker is Odin. To heathens its kinda like the ten commandments because throughout the poem Odin is giving advice and words of wisdom.

I believe that, in Northern mythology, Odin was the only God who died, and came back, which gave him incredible wisdom, does he not?

Maybe I am mistaken?

Originally posted by Mandos
I believe that, in Northern mythology, Odin was the only God who died, and came back, which gave him incredible wisdom, does he not?

Maybe I am mistaken?

Well yeah Odin is also described as being 'undead'. Odin is supposed to have hung himself on Yggdrasil he died and then he came back and this he he learn't about the runes. Thor is also supposed to incredibly wise as well...but most people don't know abot that side of the god and usually associate him with wacking stuff.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well yeah Odin is also described as being 'undead'. Thor is also supposed to incredibly wise as well...but most people don't know abot that side of the god and usually associate him with wacking stuff.

Ha, well it's there curse! Maybe some lucky wandering souls will come across this thread and be enlighted. Or maybe they'll finish as a crane cup in which Odin will toast and drink.

He hung himself from the world tree, plucked out his eye in return for a drink from the well of memory, there are a few other adventures he went on to become all wise and knowing.

Originally posted by Mandos
I believe that, in Northern mythology, Odin was the only God who died, and came back, which gave him incredible wisdom, does he not?

Maybe I am mistaken?

The water from Mimir's Well gave him wisdom as did meditating while he hung from the branches of the world tree. I'm not sure how accurate the translations I have are, however.

Yggdrasil is where Odin hung upside-down for nine nights in order to obtain the Rune Alphabet. Beneath the roots lies the spring, Mimir, to which Odin sacrificed an eye to gain wisdom.

Originally posted by Storm
Yggdrasil is where Odin hung upside-down for nine nights in order to obtain the Rune Alphabet. Beneath the roots lies the spring, Mimir, to which Odin sacrificed an eye to gain wisdom.

It's beautiful in some sense.

Heres some stuff on Thor.

http://thorshof.org/thunder14.htm


So Can Thor Be Considered As A Patron Of Spiritual Enlightenment?
1. Freya is said to have taught the gods of the Aesir the magical arts when she arrived in Asgard. This would include Thor.

2. There are references in both the sagas and the surviving runic monuments that Thor was asked to perform magic by his worshippers.

3. The sagas claim that Thor can influence dreams, strong evidence of shamanic ability.

4. Thor can appear instantly where he is needed, such as in the tale of Building of Asgard's wall. Either his goats can run very fast or he can magically move from one place to another.

5. There has been much academic debate on possible hidden meanings in the Tale of Geirrod, in which Thor trades his hammer for a witchwoman's staff and is forced to cross a river of giantess's urine. Suggestions vary from a journey of shamanic initiation to a creation myth. It is also interesting to note that the staff was the mark of office of the female magic working in the north.

6. Several myths refer to Thor calling on a reserve of magical power to increase his strength (The Lay of Hymir, The Tale of Geirrod). This allows him to increase in size until he stands 'as high as heaven'. If this isn't magical power I don't know what is.

7. Thor fools Hymir by arriving in the form of a young boy, this is an example of shapeshifting, a talent of the god often overlooked.

8. When compared to the classical pantheon, Thor is compared to Jove, thus Jovis Dais is our Thursday. Thor shares many of Jove's attributes including an interest in law and order and his role as benevolent protector. Jove does not suffer from accusations of stupidity and occupies a position of unquestioned supremacy among the Roman gods.

9. Thor is frequently invoked (more so apparently than any other Norse deity) for the consecration and hallowing of religious artefacts and ceremonies. Thus Thor must be considered to be in tune with spirituality.

10. Thor's hammer has no spiritual characteristics and is clearly not the source of Thor's consecrating power. (Its attributes are listed in the Edda, it cannot be broken, cannot miss its mark, can change in size and always returns to Thor's hand when thrown. Although magical these qualities do not explain the symbol was used to hallow.) This strongly suggests that the hammer is used in this context because it is Thor's personal symbol.

11. It is not Thor's hammer that gives him control over the weather and thunder. This power appears to be part of his very being. Again this is a magical ability.

12. Thor is shown on many of the surviving hammer amulets in the form of a bird, probably an eagle. As this symbolism is not explained in the myths and sagas it appears to be a shamanic form of the god which has not been recorded. This would tie in with thunder bird beliefs from across the globe.

13. In the Eddic tale of Balder's funeral celebrations it is Thor who among all the gods acts as a priest and blesses the pyre.

14. Thor has the power to raise the dead (Myth of Utgardaloki)

15. Thor decrees the fate of Starkard in King Gautrek's Saga. This shows he has the ability to manipulate future events.

16. Thor is the companion of Loki, probably the most daring user of magical power among all the gods and goddesses, some of Loki's knowledge must have been passed on.

17. Thor is depicted in later artwork as having a halo of fire and or stars, and is well known for having a fiery gaze. Of all the gods and goddesses described in the myths he is the least 'human' in appearance. This would suggest that it was recognised that Thor is closer to the elemental forces he represents and controls than the other deities, and therefore very much part of the spiritual life force. Before anyone claims that Thor only represents the element of fire, remember he is very close to all four elements.

18. Thor is more associated with star constellations than any other Norse deity. He is also credited with placing the stars Aurvandil (story of Hrungnir) and Thiassi's eyes (version given in the Lay of Harbard) in the heavens. These are aspects of creation.

19. According to Berlams Saga, Thor is the father of nine of the Norns.

20. One of Thor's quests in the myths is the search for a cauldron, cauldrons often represent spiritual knowledge such as the cauldrons of mead won by Odin.

21. Thor's bizarre tactics in Egil and Asmund's Saga (the story of Eaglebeak) suggests a knowledge of the future. As Thor is the brother of the goddess Frigg (who knows the future but doesn't speak of it) and wife of Sif, who Snorri names as a seeress and father of nine Norns this is far from improbable.

22. Again in Eaglebeak Thor blesses the farm so it has an improbable yeild, another aspect of magical ability.

23. Some of the most complex Norse poetry was written in Thor's honour, the obvious examples being the poetic versions of the tales of Geirrod and Hrungnir preseved in Snorri's Edda. Such elaborate work would not have been dedicated to Thor if he was not considered a connoisseur of the poetic arts. His interest in poetic kennings revealed in his intellectual contest with Alvis also suggests this is the case.

24. The heathen Icelandic legal oath named an 'almighty god' alongside Frey and Njord, this is most certainly Thor the patron of the Althing. 'Almighty' suggests that Thor was considered to be well qualified in all aspects of godhood, and not just good at wacking things.

25. If Thor is not able to provide for his followers spiritual needs, why was he so popular in the past and why is he so popular now?


Sorry couldn't help it.

Shame on you, no really it's fine.

Originally posted by Storm
Yggdrasil is where Odin hung upside-down for nine nights in order to obtain the Rune Alphabet. Beneath the roots lies the spring, Mimir, to which Odin sacrificed an eye to gain wisdom.

The elder Futhark Runes, to be precise.

All of it sounds fascinating and I have some time to read coming up in my schedule for once, so thanks!

Originally posted by willofthewisp
All of it sounds fascinating and I have some time to read coming up in my schedule for once, so thanks!

Told you you'd get something good out of me.

Originally posted by Storm
Yggdrasil is where Odin hung upside-down for nine nights in order to obtain the Rune Alphabet. Beneath the roots lies the spring, Mimir, to which Odin sacrificed an eye to gain wisdom.

I
C

mr. hitler....haha

Well, being that I still worship a Greek god to this day, I would have to go with the Greeks.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Well, being that I still worship a Greek god to this day, I would have to go with the Greeks.

For real? Some people still do but there not that common.

yeah he watched to much hercules and xena...lol..hes barely old enough to drink if even..lol...although worshipping aphrodite not a bad idea? I would like a visit from the goddess of LUV...lol

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
For real? Some people still do but there not that common. Its actually pretty common if you know where to look. Originally posted by Jack Daniels
yeah he watched to much hercules and xena...lol..hes barely old enough to drink if even..lol...although worshipping aphrodite not a bad idea? I would like a visit from the goddess of LUV...lol Um, what? You better not be talking about me.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Well, being that I still worship a Greek god to this day, I would have to go with the Greeks. Nice, and I view myself with also. Aphrodite or Venus..................hmm. Nice to think about it though. One can alighn themselves with them/it.

obviosuly the greeks win like seriously ikno norse will put up a good fight but they have honor and all the greeks dont they will lie cheat steal etc for there own needs wid no honor and they will win imean the hundred handed ones can pwn the frost giants and the fire giants so ya and plus cyclops are immunish to fire and the only one who doesnt have honor and all is loki and thts all greeks are winners if u hve a good reaosn thts not right just tell me i am good for a open-minded debate

I do not know much about the Norse gods, but the Norse religion is likely better. The idealism is behind this is Greek gods are said to have at a point abandoned Greece to become Roman gods. I'm not sure if that is really what happened but Zues and Jupiter are one in the same. Though the Roman versions of the Greek gods were less sexually active and much more warlike. If I had to choose a religion, I honestly couldn't, because I do not know the Norse side of things well enough, which shames me because I have a great love or mythology and religions that are considered myths. I also read somewhere someone saying something close to "they are myths so don't matter" I would like to point out that in this day and age EVERYTHING is a myth including Christianity, because myth is defined as "A traditional story, esp. one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon" I apologize if I offend anyone.

I always like Fenrir