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ok this is sumthing ive been wondering. given that two people, same initial birth characteristic{call em identical twins} one a professional body builder and the other a professional weight lifter, go at it in a brawl{no dirty tricks} whod win?

Any prep? BFR allowed?

no, nothing other than the experience of each one's speciality in their field. they are both well rested,{but they are not martial artists mind you and have practically no TRAINING in anything concerning fighting etc}

i wanted to basically see which makes the body stronger OVERALL body building or weight lifting. each haas their SPECIFIC strengths an weakness, but overall i wanted to see.

oh, they are both well restes and know they are going into a fight, but what kind of fight or who they are going to be fighting, they dont know.

My first impression: all else being physically equal...whoever would win, it would have little or nothing to do with who "bodybuilds" and who "weightlifts," and a lot more to do with factors such as psyche and personal history.

That said, just to play into the thread question: I'd go with the bodybuilder. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't just a mass of pumped up muscle. Some of them are just as strong (or nearly so) as weightlifters (it would be the lifting technique which would put the WLer > BBer in a lift), plus they work their musculature more thoroughly, ie, using concentration lifts in addition to compound lifts. Basically, any BBer worth his weight in protein knows he's gotta be good at the basic compound movements if he wants to be a champion.

But again, I really see the particular sport being a distant secondary factor.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, nothing other than the experience of each one's speciality in their field. they are both well rested,{but they are not martial artists mind you and have practically no TRAINING in anything concerning fighting etc}

i wanted to basically see which makes the body stronger OVERALL body building or weight lifting. each haas their SPECIFIC strengths an weakness, but overall i wanted to see.

oh, they are both well restes and know they are going into a fight, but what kind of fight or who they are going to be fighting, they dont know.

Then the weight lifter. Bodybuilding is more about how you look than how strong you are.

Originally posted by Mindship
My first impression: all else being physically equal...whoever would win, it would have little or nothing to do with who "bodybuilds" and who "weightlifts," and a lot more to do with factors such as psyche and personal history.

That said, just to play into the thread question: I'd go with the bodybuilder. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't just a mass of pumped up muscle. Some of them are just as strong (or nearly so) as weightlifters (it would be the lifting technique which would put the WLer > BBer in a lift), plus they work their musculature more thoroughly, ie, using concentration lifts in addition to compound lifts. Basically, any BBer worth his weight in protein knows he's gotta be good at the basic compound movements if he wants to be a champion.

But again, I really see the particular sport being a distant secondary factor.

but the mass to strength ration in weight lifters is much higher{albeit at the particular angles that they life weight in contests which is different from the angels that body builders train wih weights} and the problem of flexibility and muscles extension which are very important in hitting while fighting or evoiding blows, are both lowers in bodybuilders than in weight lifters. ofcourse, there is the stamina aspect which is always greater{in my oppinion} in body builders, as they do lotsa reps with weights as opposed to weight lifters who only have to lift very hig loads at one time. at the same time, the strength of bones in weight lifters in much higher than in body builders as lifting heavy weights requires and trains bones to a great extent. there is ofcourse, the body hardeing aspect which makes body builders more ARMOURED against blows as they have greaters and more covering muscles mass and it is harder for blows to get through. just a few things over the top of my head. please, do contribute every1 .

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but the mass to strength ration in weight lifters is much higher{albeit at the particular angles that they life weight in contests which is different from the angels that body builders train wih weights} and the problem of flexibility and muscles extension which are very important in hitting while fighting or evoiding blows, are both lowers in bodybuilders than in weight lifters. ofcourse, there is the stamina aspect which is always greater{in my oppinion} in body builders, as they do lotsa reps with weights as opposed to weight lifters who only have to lift very hig loads at one time. at the same time, the strength of bones in weight lifters in much higher than in body builders as lifting heavy weights requires and trains bones to a great extent. there is ofcourse, the body hardeing aspect which makes body builders more ARMOURED against blows as they have greaters and more covering muscles mass and it is harder for blows to get through. just a few things over the top of my head. please, do contribute every1 .

Both champion bodybuilding and weightlifting require a lot more than just hoisting iron. Both also do a lot of stretching and aerobic work (eg, Scwarzenegger and Franco Columbu studied ballet, for cryin' out loud). Again, champion BBers don't just get big, they get strong in the basic lifts, just like WLers, but WLers typically lift more because, well, that's what they do. There is a lot of technique involved.

But again, I can't emphasize this enough, BB or WL is really not gonna be the determining factor, as opposed to the mental make-up of each combatant.

if it was a body builder at competition time then they would lose...they have to dehydrate and strip fat to a ridiclulous degree just before a competition that just doing their posing routine has them almost passing out with pain and cramps on the floor afterwards...i've seen this 1st hand...not a pretty sight

although when they are off season and are training they put on more body fat to allow muscle recovery and are just as powerful as any weight lifter....perhaps they dont have certain techniques that competition lifters do or the power to weight ratio but they are just as strong

Originally posted by Mindship
Both champion bodybuilding and weightlifting require a lot more than just hoisting iron. Both also do a lot of stretching and aerobic work (eg, Scwarzenegger and Franco Columbu studied ballet, for cryin' out loud). Again, champion BBers don't just get big, they get strong in the basic lifts, just like WLers, but WLers typically lift more because, well, that's what they do. There is a lot of technique involved.

But again, I can't emphasize this enough, BB or WL is really not gonna be the determining factor, as opposed to the mental make-up of each combatant.

yes but they werent great balet dancers and people forget, arny is old news, he didnt have the body to compete in CURRENT body building events, where muscles are as hude as they are and cause the negetive side affects. mentally, i have said, they are twins and there is almost no difference. weight lifting UNDOUBTEDLY increases muscle strength MUCH more than body building. ronnie coleman considers it and effort to bench press 400 pounds, weight lifters lift a whole lot more than that, albeit without reps.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes but they werent great balet dancers and people forget, arny is old news, he didnt have the body to compete in CURRENT body building events, where muscles are as hude as they are and cause the negetive side affects. mentally, i have said, they are twins and there is almost no difference. weight lifting UNDOUBTEDLY increases muscle strength MUCH more than body building. ronnie coleman considers it and effort to bench press 400 pounds, weight lifters lift a whole lot more than that, albeit without reps. The point was not that they were great dancers, but that they supplemented their training with exercises for grace, balance and flexibility. And being old school has nothing to do with it. Paul Anderson was a champion Olympic lifter from the 1950s. Yet his squat of 1200 pounds still stands as the heaviest ever.

And if 300 lb Ronnie Coleman has trouble benching 400 (is that for one rep?), then that's a sad comment on Coleman more than a comment about bodybuilder strength. Maybe today's BBers are doing something wrong (wrong steroids? )

Franco Columbu--at 185 lbs--benched over 500 (the right steroids).

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ok this is sumthing ive been wondering. given that two people, same initial birth characteristic{call em identical twins} one a professional body builder and the other a professional weight lifter, go at it in a brawl{no dirty tricks} whod win?

What a retarded thing to wonder. Large muscles and/or raw strength aren't the only things that determine a fight, though it could help.

The early MMA fights were weight classes didn't exist should have been a hint to you, as many a light weight took down a heavy weight.

Originally posted by Mindship
The point was not that they were great dancers, but that they supplemented their training with exercises for grace, balance and flexibility. And being old school has nothing to do with it. Paul Anderson was a champion Olympic lifter from the 1950s. Yet his squat of 1200 pounds still stands as the heaviest ever.

And if 300 lb Ronnie Coleman has trouble benching 400 (is that for one rep?), then that's a sad comment on Coleman more than a comment about bodybuilder strength. Maybe today's BBers are doing something wrong (wrong steroids? )

Franco Columbu--at 185 lbs--benched over 500 (the right steroids).

ronnie did leg press a ton thrice but thats about it. i was just saying that ronnie is about the most succesful body builder in the business and not being able to lift that much weight says sumthing about pure strength in bodybuilding. and my comments about being old school are only directed towards bodybuilding, the techniques for weight lifting have changed little overtime, unlike body building. today arnie wud hardly even qualify for mister olympia.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ronnie did leg press a ton thrice but thats about it. i was just saying that ronnie is about the most succesful body builder in the business and not being able to lift that much weight says sumthing about pure strength in bodybuilding. and my comments about being old school are only directed towards bodybuilding, the techniques for weight lifting have changed little overtime, unlike body building. today arnie wud hardly even qualify for mister olympia.

You're also forgetting that Schwarzenegger also didn't have access to today's modern "technologies". As big as he was and lean as he was even in the off season...yeah, he'd do just fine nowadays (with today's "technologies".

What you're doing is comparing a Commodore 64 to a Area-51 ALX. Excellent machines in their respective times, but they are not comparable.




Now, to compare the general psyche of the modern pro bodybuilder and the general psyche of the modern power lifter. I'm going to have to give it to the bodybuilder. They seem to get into more fights and arguments. It may have something to do with being a hell of a lot more vain (rightly so...their sport is a very subjective sport).



As Jaden pointed out, NOT at peak on-season condition, though. The cramps and dehydration (those two are not mutually exclusive...heh) are enough alone to put them out of business.


However, I'd say that most pros at 6-8 weeks out are lean enough to be in good enough condition. 1.5-2 hours of cardio a day, an excellent diet, a nice on-season cocktail of steroids for extra umpf and aggression, and less bodyfat are all good points for fighting.

There are some pretty heavy duty power lifters who I could see ripping babies heads off...

Also, Ronnie Coleman is one hell of a strong dude. He doesn't strain with 400 lbs on bench.....faaar from it. He even says "light weight", "Yeah buudyyyyy", and "ain't nuttin' but a peanut".

Here's 400 WITH DUMBBELLS during his on season:

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That doesn't look like effort.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ok this is sumthing ive been wondering. given that two people, same initial birth characteristic{call em identical twins} one a professional body builder and the other a professional weight lifter, go at it in a brawl{no dirty tricks} whod win?
Why must you poison these forums?

Bodybuilders have muscles all for show, weight lifters usually work out to be stronger. Ronnie Coleman may be huge, but if someone were built like Batman, he'd beat the holy shit outta Coleman.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Any prep? BFR allowed?
crackers

lol, ronnie always says peanuts and weak and stuff, doesnt mean it actually is. again, weight lifter of much less body weight can lift much more than him.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol, ronnie always says peanuts and weak and stuff, doesnt mean it actually is. again, weight lifter of much less body weight can lift much more than him.

It was for humor. I think it's funny that he says that.


However, it really is light weight, relative to him, on the video I posted.

Who would want to watch a bunch of muscle heads grapple each other for hours?

How much someone can lift and how big someone is has little to do with how well they perform in a fight. If anything it slows them down due to their mass.

Originally posted by dadudemon
However, it really is light weight, relative to him, on the video I posted. What's equally impressive, but not visible thanks to Coleman's skill, is the tremendous strength that goes into just balancing the dumbells, let alone pressing them. Anyone who's worked with barbells and dumbells knows what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by Kosta
How much someone can lift and how big someone is has little to do with how well they perform in a fight. True.

If anything it slows them down due to their mass. Not necessarily. Muscles will do as they're trained to do, and I personally did not find myself lacking in speed compared to my slimmer sparring partners. If anything, my friend would b*tch how it was tougher to get at my ribs because my larger arms covered up more body.

Don't get me wrong, there is a happy medium, but for the most part, once you get pasty a certain size, especially the size apparent in most bodybuilders, you are considerably slower than an opponent who is smaller and trains their muscles for speed and strength as apposed to mass. Fast twitch muscle fibers are largely more present in people that train for strength and speed as apposed to mass. There are exceptions to this, as some people are gifted with plenty of both. I'm no expert, but these are some things Ive gathered over the past few years of weight training and messing around with some MMA. Having said that I guess that the weightlifter would most probably have an advantage of speed over the bodybuilder due to his or hers increased muscle fiber to size ratio.

Either way though, I'd just fight dirty is someone twice the size that I am came at me. Survival is key.

Originally posted by Mindship
What's equally impressive, but not visible thanks to Coleman's skill, is the tremendous strength that goes into just balancing the dumbells, let alone pressing them. Anyone who's worked with barbells and dumbells knows what I'm talking about.

Yup, exactly right, integrating dumbells in to your workout in exercises such as bench press and shoulder press adds an element of balance that increases the workload on the muscle being used. Barbells don't have that as much because youre not using as much of your core to balance the weight, due to it being one mass. That's why I use mostly dumbells where I can.

Originally posted by Kosta
Don't get me wrong, there is a happy medium, but for the most part, once you get pasty a certain size, especially the size apparent in most bodybuilders, you are considerably slower than an opponent who is smaller and trains their muscles for speed and strength as apposed to mass. No argument here.

Either way though, I'd just fight dirty is someone twice the size that I am came at me. Survival is key. To survival... drunk

Sorry friend, I have no idea regarding to this matter.
If I found anywhere then I will tell you.

Originally posted by JacopeX
Who would want to watch a bunch of muscle heads grapple each other for hours?
Why would you want to see people kick a ball around for ninety minutes?

Originally posted by Barker
Why would you want to see people kick a ball around for ninety minutes? Why would you want to see a bunch of jerks with over protected gear on top of each other for hours?