Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

If the following characters were to square off against one another in an arena type setting, who would be the last one standing, and why?

Yoda (ROTS)
Grievous (Clone Wars)
Mace
Dooku (AOTC)
Exar Kun
Anakin (ROTS)

Now, in this battle the characters are only permitted to use their lightsaber skills. Nothing else.

Who prevails?



P.S. I know this thread exceeds the 'max number of contenders' rule - but because it is only regarding the combatants' skills with a lightsaber, I'm hoping it won't be closed.

I believe it would boil down to Yoda and Anakin, or Kun and Anakin. If Kun, then Anakin eventually defeats him (as I'm sure fatigue would set in) and if its Yoda and Anakin... not sure. Anakin could win, but then on the other hand, this is Yoda. But that's what i got so far.
And before someone says something about Mace, Yoda could defeat Mace, as Vaapad wouldn't help him.

Yoda

what's your opinion(s) on grievous here? because this battle is sans force powers, would he still get owned by the likes of dooku and mace?

Originally posted by Galan007
what's your opinion(s) on grievous here? because this battle is sans force powers, would he still get owned by the likes of dooku and mace?

Yup, especially from Dooku in this case considering he trained Grievous. He is the first to fall.

from what i've seen, it's mainly when force powers are used against grievous that an advantage is gained over him. taking that 'crutch' (lol) away from the jedi/sith, would allow gg's very unorthodox style(s) to shine. sure, dooku might still be able to best grievous in one on one combat - but i certainly don't think it would be any kind of curbstomp in his favor .

just my opinion.

Dooku would still beat him. As would Yoda, Mace, Anakin... Kun. I just think that while he is good, he's the weakest link. I doubt he's seen Kun's form/style, so he'd likely have trouble with him.

i agree that the aforementioned masters would eventually beat him. i guess all i'm getting at is, if grievous were to fight dooku or mace one on one, after the battle(s) their stamina would more than likely be very much depleted . this would leave room for another being to easily dispatch them. stamina might be an issue for yoda as well, imo .

So they can't use the force to replenish their energy? Or is that now allowed in this battle?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
So they can't use the force to replenish their energy? Or is that now allowed in this battle? they cannot use force-replenish. the combatants have, "only what they take with them." the only force powers allowed, are those which are needed in order for these characters to duel at their best.

Anakin or Yoda would win, most likely Anakin though, Kun goes down first though, against these duelist with out his ZOMG AMuLetz!! to help him he'd barely be a match for Grievous in a straight up duel, whom dueled on even footing with Mace Windu, and Count Dooku, knew every style of saber combat, and pwnd 5 Jedi at once.

Yoda wins.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
Anakin or Yoda would win, most likely Anakin though, Kun goes down first though, against these duelist with out his ZOMG AMuLetz!! to help him he'd barely be a match for Grievous in a straight up duel, whom dueled on even footing with Mace Windu, and Count Dooku, knew every style of saber combat, and pwnd 5 Jedi at once. what has exar done that puts him over grievous in that department? .

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
Anakin or Yoda would win, most likely Anakin though, Kun goes down first though, against these duelist with out his ZOMG AMuLetz!! to help him he'd barely be a match for Grievous in a straight up duel, whom dueled on even footing with Mace Windu, and Count Dooku, knew every style of saber combat, and pwnd 5 Jedi at once.

When has Greivous in a straight duel stood on even footing against Mace and Dooku?

Also when did Exar Kun saber skills become so low? Obi Wan defeated Grievous in a saber battle and I don't see Obi Wan defeating Exar Kun.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Obi Wan defeated Grievous in a saber battle and I don't see Obi Wan defeating Exar Kun. obi defeated grievous after mace had wreaked havoc on his body via force crush. that being said, grievous was in no way at his best during that particular 'battle' .

Originally posted by Kotor3
When has Greivous in a straight duel stood on even footing against Mace and Dooku?


That hardly seems relevant considering both Mace and Dooku are probably better duelists then he is. So is Obi-Wan. Kun has done nothing with a lightsaber to convince me that he even close to being near the PT's top bracket.

Originally posted by Galan007
obi defeated grievous after mace had wreaked havoc on his body via force crush. that being said, grievous was in no way at his best during that particular 'battle' . Uh, he crushed his throat. How does that affect his mechanical limbs/computerized mind?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Uh, he crushed his throat. How does that affect his mechanical limbs/computerized mind? first off, mace crushed grievous' chest. after mace did so, grievous went down to his 'knees' clutching his chest, and coughing/wheezing in pain. secondly, it seems gg's brain was mainly organic, as this cut away shows:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1766/229459120681generalgriezx0.jpg

that being said, i believe one of two things resulted from mace owning grievous.

1.) being harmed by a jedi in such a manner made gg lose personal 'confidence', for lack of better words, in himself. this would undoubtedly diminish the psychological "fear and intimidation" edge he implemented in battle. thus, rendering him a much less efficient duelist.

and/or,

2.) having his core crushed, damaged gg's body as a whole. he certainly moved and acted much different from clone wars, to ROTS something about him had drastically changed]. if, say, gg were in constant pain , fighting/moving like he could beforehand would be exceedingly difficult to accomplish - which accounts for him acting as feeble as he did, and being owned in laghtsaber combat as though he weren't even a threat.

please note that i am not saying the final results of obi/gg's battle would have necessarily been different. however, had gg been at his peak, it would have been a much, much closer battle. he just didn't seem to be that same "i can best 5 jedi at a time," beast.

all imo, of course.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
That hardly seems relevant considering both Mace and Dooku are probably better duelists then he is. So is Obi-Wan. Kun has done nothing with a lightsaber to convince me that he even close to being near the PT's top bracket. I wouldn't go as far as to say Obi is better than Grievous in saber fighting, GG WAS weakened when they fought.

This is between Yoda and Mace IMO.

Obi-Wan was better then GG was in saber fighting.

Originally posted by Galan007
first off, mace crushed grievous' chest. after mace did so, grievous went down to his 'knees' clutching his chest, and coughing/wheezing in pain. secondly, it seems gg's brain was mainly organic, as this cut away shows:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1766/229459120681generalgriezx0.jpg

that being said, i believe one of two things resulted from mace owning grievous.

1.) being harmed by a jedi in such a manner made gg lose personal 'confidence', for lack of better words, in himself. this would undoubtedly diminish the psychological "fear and intimidation" edge he implemented in battle. thus, rendering him a much less efficient duelist.

and/or,

2.) having his core crushed, damaged gg's body as a whole. he certainly moved and acted much different from clone wars, to ROTS something about him had drastically changed]. if, say, gg were in constant pain , fighting/moving like he could beforehand would be exceedingly difficult to accomplish - which accounts for him acting as feeble as he did, and being owned in laghtsaber combat as though he weren't even a threat.

please note that i am not saying the final results of obi/gg's battle would have necessarily been different. however, had gg been at his peak, it would have been a much, much closer battle. he just didn't seem to be that same "i can best 5 jedi at a time," beast.

all imo, of course.
Two things. 1. I really meant to type chest, but for whatever reason, typed throat. 2. I was mistaking GG for his droids that were programmed to know multiple fighting styles, but I thought I read somewhere that part of his cybernetic enhancements was some type of computerized something or other that helped him to fight Jedi.

In any case, OB1 was noted as being "the one" to fight GG and, imo, would beat him at any given time. People often underestimate OB1, but remember that not even Dooku penetrated his defenses in pure saber battle in ROTS.

Originally posted by Kotor3
When has Greivous in a straight duel stood on even footing against Mace and Dooku?

In Labyrinth of Evil, Grievous makes Mace want to end the confrontation. He synthesizes a pseudo vapaad that challenges Mace enough to break off the fight.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
That hardly seems relevant considering both Mace and Dooku are probably better duelists then he is. So is Obi-Wan. Kun has done nothing with a lightsaber to convince me that he even close to being near the PT's top bracket.

What exactly have Mace and Dooku done? Just as Kun they are stated to be very skilled there light saber styles for their time. Kun though came from a time of war and Mace and Dooku fought who? I guess you are going to mention a not fully trained Anakin and Obi for Dooku and let me guess Yoda who did not want to kill him.

When Anakin was fully trained we know what happened to Dooku.

Was Kun every defeated in light saber combat? People here are lowering Kun's saber skills way to much.

Mace defeated the most powerful sith lord in history, WTFpwnd a war that had lasted generations, invented a lightsaber style, pwnzored Jango and was only surpassed by yoda and Dooku.

Dooku was called one of the most accomplished/talented swordsmen/duelists (can't remember the quote) in the order's 2500 year history.

Mace fought Sidious with distinction, and Tyrannus (Dooku) had routinely beaten Mace, even before being empowered by the DS.

(Note: this isn't XYZ reasoning B/C i don't mean that dooku is stronger than sidious- just in case that comes up

25,000 year history and an even greater Lord of the Sith. After Dooku went to the darkside, and Mace had Vaapad, Dooku couldn't even beat Mace in a place filled with the Darkside. He had Magnagaurds grab Mace while he fled.

War doesn't mean shit. Lucas already said that the PT era showed Jedi in their prime form. So really, what has Kun done to show he's even up to OB1's level?

Originally posted by Kotor3
What exactly have Mace and Dooku done? Just as Kun they are stated to be very skilled there light saber styles for their time. Kun though came from a time of war and Mace and Dooku fought who? I guess you are going to mention a not fully trained Anakin and Obi for Dooku and let me guess Yoda who did not want to kill him.

When Anakin was fully trained we know what happened to Dooku.

Was Kun every defeated in light saber combat? People here are lowering Kun's saber skills way to much.


ALL of Exar Kun's saber duels in his lifetime that were aware of:

vs Krato as a padawan - won
vs Sylvar as a padawan - won
vs Vodo as a padawan - lost
vs Ulic Qel Droma - tie
vs Vodo as Sith Lord - won

WOW 5 and two against complete jokes, for starting an event known as the Great Sith War, Kun BARLEY activly participated in active warfare instead leaving it to Ulic while he trained students.

That couled with his one quote of being a "Lightsaber Master" is rather lame when comparing him to pretty much the flat out best duelists in Star Wars ever save for Luke.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I wouldn't go as far as to say Obi is better than Grievous in saber fighting, GG WAS weakened when they fought. well, the difference certainly wouldn't have been anywhere near as extreme had they battled when gg was at his peak. even if obi still took that battle, it would've been much, much closer.

i don't feel that i'm underestimating obi in the slightest - gg is just that good, imo.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Two things. 1. I really meant to type chest, but for whatever reason, typed throat. 2. I was mistaking GG for his droids that were programmed to know multiple fighting styles, but I thought I read somewhere that part of his cybernetic enhancements was some type of computerized something or other that helped him to fight Jedi. 1.) cool beans.

2.) after gg's 'accident' much of his person was replaced with cybernetic enhancements. this accounts for his agility/strength/speed/etc. increases, which did aide him in owning jedi. however, he still retained minimal organs, and physical networks . that's why mace's force-ownage weakened gg as a whole.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Dooku couldn't even beat Mace in a place filled with the Darkside. He had Magnagaurds grab Mace while he fled. pretty much the same crap he pulled with yoda. how's the saying go? "running away is disorderly... departing is strategic."

Originally posted by Galan007
pretty much the same crap he pulled with yoda. how's the saying go? "running away is disorderly... departing is strategic." I like that actually, lol.

Anyway, I still believe it comes down to Anakin or Yoda with Anakin likely coming out on top.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Anyway, I still believe it comes down to Anakin or Yoda with Anakin likely coming out on top. kind of what i was leaning toward. do you think anakin takes this because he's just better with a saber all around - or because he's equally as skilled as yoda, but has more stamina?

I just think that at the time of ROTS, Anakin could beat damn near anyone with a saber. In the duel with Dooku, OB1 and Dooku were already getting tired and fatigued, yet Anakin was perfectly fine. So i think both of those factors would come into play. I don't think it would be easy by any means whatsoever, but eventually, Anakin would emerge victorious. But Yoda could also fall before that. Too many factors can come into play here.

This mite be a stupid question, but was it ever stated exactly how many Jedi Greivous killed?

i don't think an exact number was ever given, but grievous had already killed "hundreds" of jedi, well before he himself was vanquished:

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5232/g1no6.th.jpg

Yoda and Mace in the final match. Yoda wins.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
25,000 year history and an even greater Lord of the Sith. After Dooku went to the darkside, and Mace had Vaapad, Dooku couldn't even beat Mace in a place filled with the Darkside. He had Magnagaurds grab Mace while he fled.

War doesn't mean shit. Lucas already said that the PT era showed Jedi in their prime form. So really, what has Kun done to show he's even up to OB1's level?

See it is statements like this and I not going to argue it that make stars very silly at times.

"Lucas already said that the PT era showed Jedi in their prime form". Yes Lucas did, so I guess that means the jedi in PT era can beat any saber user of the past. Also seeing that they only went against each other, it is not like that were constantly having saber battles to the death.

Originally posted by Kotor3


"Lucas already said that the PT era showed Jedi in their prime form". Yes Lucas did, so I guess that means the jedi in PT era can beat any saber user of the past.

That would make sense...

Originally posted by Galan007
i don't think an exact number was ever given, but grievous had already killed "hundreds" of jedi, well before he himself was vanquished:

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5232/g1no6.th.jpg Holy crap!

I thought General Greivous may have killed a few dozen Jedi, at MOST. For some reason I just never imagined the death count being that high!

most people wouldn't. gg certainly wasn't your average duelist, that's for sure.

Originally posted by Kotor3
See it is statements like this and I not going to argue it that make stars very silly at times. Uh... what?

Originally posted by Kotor3
"Lucas already said that the PT era showed Jedi in their prime form". Yes Lucas did, so I guess that means the jedi in PT era can beat any saber user of the past. Also seeing that they only went against each other, it is not like that were constantly having saber battles to the death. Of course there are case by case instances, but on a whole, the PT Jedi were in the prime of dueling with sabers. Which means the whole point is, the years of war before this era mean NOTHING in terms of those duelists skills. If the people they're fighting aren't worth shit, then the Jedi back then won't be either. You have to fight people better than you to get better, and apparently, they sucked back in the day in comparison to the PT.

Since Grievous is being discussed here, I have a question. Which version of Grievous invading Coruscant is canon, LOE or the CW cartoons?