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Who would u say is the most powerful mutant in the x-verse and please give reasons why

dark pheonix everybody knows that

True dark phoenix is the most powerful but shes has been deafeated before BY A FEW Rachel summers to name just one of them.

just because she's been defeated a few time doesn't mean she isn't the most powerful.

For your info i never said that dark phoenix was not the most powerful mutant, she my favarite if u must know anyway seems an apology is in order to fellow browsers for my text writing sorry about that but im used to texting on my phone alot kinda got into the habit a bit x

Isn't it a bit pointless to ask such a question?
Isn't it pretty much obvious, that Phoenix is the most powerful mutant? And i DON'T distinguish between Jean, Dark Phoenix or Phoenix Of The White Crown or whatever, since it is canon that it's all the same.

After Phoenix, on that list is Cable, and then probably full powered Gambit.

Mad Jim Jaspers is the most powerful mutant, but from this list, it would be Jean Grey/Phoenix.

Jazz.

...President Bush...

Mad Jim Jaspers is the most powerful mutant in Marvel.

From the list Dark Phoenix is though.

You can name any mutant you think not just from the list.

house of M wanda
jammie braddock
mad jim jaspers
franklin richards
nate grey
cable
phoenix
alpha the ultimate mutant
proteus
legion
new son gambit
magneto
xavier
stryfe
maverick{or whatever the third summers brother name is}
elixir
apocalypse

I personally would consider MJJ slightly above HoM Wanda, but it is very close.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I personally would consider MJJ slightly above HoM Wanda, but it is very close.

Agreed. HOM Wanda, MJJ, and Jamie Braddock are right around the same level, but these 3 are definitely at the top.

Phoenix
MJJ
Wanda
Franklin Richards
Jamie Braddock

i apologize BADGAL, i thought you were saying something else. but i can't believe that there would be any mutant stronger than any version of the Phoenix. she is after all like a goddess right.

Originally posted by Ordained
i apologize BADGAL, i thought you were saying something else. but i can't believe that there would be any mutant stronger than any version of the Phoenix. she is after all like a goddess right.

Look into other characters like Jaspers and Jamie to see how powerful they are, then decide.

aww guys phoenix isn't a mutant. phoenix is a cosmic being who posses jean from time to time

Originally posted by Ordained
i apologize BADGAL, i thought you were saying something else. but i can't believe that there would be any mutant stronger than any version of the Phoenix. she is after all like a goddess right. Mad Jim Jaspers can erase the entire Omniverse.

i looked at it and they are really powerful. to bad one is crazy and the other's evil. and why is there so much fuss over phoenix if there's others out ther who could kill her a thousand times a second?

Originally posted by Ordained
i looked at it and they are really powerful. to bad one is crazy and the other's evil. and why is there so much fuss over phoenix if there's others out ther who could kill her a thousand times a second?

Because the Phoenix is a fundamental force of the universe. She is the spark that initiates the big bang, but not the big bang itself. Without her, the universe would theoretically wither away into nothing without being reborn.

However, her status doesn't have anything to do with her power level. There are several beings not as important who are more powerful than her.

Originally posted by Ordained
i looked at it and they are really powerful. to bad one is crazy and the other's evil. and why is there so much fuss over phoenix if there's others out ther who could kill her a thousand times a second? Like Celestial said, Phoenix is essential to the universe.

Although Merlyn himself, the Omniversal Guardian, considered MJJ to be a major threat.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Mad Jim Jaspers can erase the entire Omniverse.

No he cant. A precog saw in a future timeline that he could destroy the omniverse. The details of how that would come to play were never defined.

We can only go by what hes done on panel. That is warp planet Earth as stated on panel and get beat by the Fury.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Because the Phoenix is a fundamental force of the universe. She is the spark that initiates the big bang, but not the big bang itself. Without her, the universe would theoretically wither away into nothing without being reborn.

However, her status doesn't have anything to do with her power level. There are several beings not as important who are more powerful than her.

The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang itself and triggers the creation cycle according to several writers interpretations.

However there is more to the Phoenix than what you see at a universal level(i.e the life force of reality).

There is the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room from where all Phoenix manifestations stem.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang itself and triggers the creation cycle according to several writers interpretations.

However there is more to the Phoenix than what you see at a universal level(i.e the life force of reality).

There is the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room from where all Phoenix manifestations stem.

Where does it say she is the big bang itself? All I've ever seen it said on panel is she is the spark. If you have something that says otherwise, please post it.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Where does it say she is the big bang itself? All I've ever seen it said on panel is she is the spark. If you have something that says otherwise, please post it.

The Phoenix Force is the energies of creation that give birth to reality:

"Galactus was transformed by the energies of creation itself...Call it the Big Bang or the Phoenix Force or what have you"

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/26111214624.jpg


It is literally the Big Bang turned sentient.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29815392027.jpg

Its manifestation within reality(the Firebird avatar) keeps the creation cycle revolving:

http://f5.putfile.com/5/13616261699-thumb.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35822474849.jpg


All life derives from the Force:

http://f10.putfile.com/7/18512210966-thumb.jpg

"All that is i am"

"Nothing lives that is not touched by a part of me"

"The stars are my children"

Confirming the fact that the energy of creation derives from the Phoenix Force.

Kubik the Cosmic Cube being talks of how all life comes from the stars:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29812591238.jpg

He then says how the well from which the stars draw their energy from sometimes ignites as Dark Phoenix. Further confirming the Phoenix Force as the source of all life energy for the marvel universe:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29812591285.jpg

So not only is the Phoenix Force the sentient energies of creation, but its avatar within reality ensures its own "death" and rebirth.

None of those scans specifically mention her as being the big bang itself, except for the first one, and that is an origin of Galactus that goes against the other multiple origin showings of him.

The second scan simply shows the PF stating how she came into being, which was from the big bang.

The Watcher in the third mentions the PF being the spark that ignites creation, which I agree with, but again doesn't say big bang.

The rest of the scans just mention how the PF is the fuel of creation, which again I will agree with.

Ultimately, none of this proves power, only function. I'm not arguing that the PF doesn't have the power to destroy creation. That's it's whole purpose. However, that doesn't make Jean the most powerful mutant.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
None of those scans specifically mention her as being the big bang itself, except for the first one, and that is an origin of Galactus that goes against the other multiple origin showings of him.

This doesn't contradict the other origins at all. It doesn't totally re-write what came before it adds more detail.

The Phoenix Force by canon is the life force of reality, the energies of creation. The previous Galactus origins stated that Galactus developed with Eternity within the Cosmic Egg and was transformed by the energies of creation.

This issue of Fantastic Four doesn't change that, its just verifying the point that the PF is the energies of creation within Marvel. That isnt a change to Galactus' origin, its clarification.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
The second scan simply shows the PF stating how she came into being, which was from the big bang.

The second scan illustrates the point that the Phoenix is the Big Bang made sentient. You have the the Big Bang depicted on panel and the Phoenix Force illustrated as its energies.

That coincides with Reeds comments in the F4 scan.

The Phoenix is the ambient energies of reality. During the creation cycle it acts within reality through avatars who help restart the cycle, aid evolution, before ending the cycle. At the end of the cycle everything converges into the Crunch. Then with Big Bang everything is restarted and as we saw in the scan the Force gradually regains its sentience. It is reborn in the Big Bang event.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
The Watcher in the third mentions the PF being the spark that ignites creation, which I agree with, but again doesn't say big bang.

The Phoenix Force is the ambient energies of creation as stated on panel. Its avatar, be it the Firebird or a human host manifest within reality to set off the Big Bang or to burn away reality at the end of the cycle.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
The rest of the scans just mention how the PF is the fuel of creation, which again I will agree with.

Then how can you doubt that Phoenix is the Big Bang? The Big Bang is the energies of creation. You have scans stating Phoenix to be the Big Bang, scans saying the Phoenix Force is the fuel of creation and that stars and all life derive from its energies. Its not hard to see where Marvel was going CD



Originally posted by celestialdemon
Ultimately, none of this proves power, only function. I'm not arguing that the PF doesn't have the power to destroy creation. That's it's whole purpose. However, that doesn't make Jean the most powerful mutant.

All of this proves that the Phoenix Force is the fundamental force from which many of the other cosmics derive. Not only does it keep the cycle revolving, but its power fuels it.

Your query was regarding Phoenix as the Big Bang. I have answered that. If you had questioned how powerful it is then i would provided you with a number of scans depicting some of the best feats in Marvel.

No mutant, not Wanda, Jaspers or Franklin Richards have outdone the White Phoenix in terms of feats.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This doesn't contradict the other origins at all. It doesn't totally re-write what came before it adds more detail.

The Phoenix Force by canon is the life force of reality, the energies of creation. The previous Galactus origins stated that Galactus developed with Eternity within the Cosmic Egg and was transformed by the energies of creation.

This issue of Fantastic Four doesn't change that, its just verifying the point that the PF is the energies of creation within Marvel. That isnt a change to Galactus' origin, its clarification.

In all of the other origin stories, it doesn't mention anything about the Phoenix Force. Even in the scan, Richards



The second scan illustrates the point that the Phoenix is the Big Bang made sentient. You have the the Big Bang depicted on panel and the Phoenix Force illustrated as its energies.

That coincides with Reeds comments in the F4 scan.

The Phoenix is the ambient energies of reality. During the creation cycle it acts within reality through avatars who help restart the cycle, aid evolution, before ending the cycle. At the end of the cycle everything converges into the Crunch. Then with Big Bang everything is restarted and as we saw in the scan the Force gradually regains its sentience. It is reborn in the Big Bang event.



The Phoenix Force is the ambient energies of creation as stated on panel. Its avatar, be it the Firebird or a human host manifest within reality to set off the Big Bang or to burn away reality at the end of the cycle.



Then how can you doubt that Phoenix is the Big Bang? The Big Bang is the energies of creation. You have scans stating Phoenix to be the Big Bang, scans saying the Phoenix Force is the fuel of creation and that stars and all life derive from its energies. Its not hard to see where Marvel was going CD



All of this proves that the Phoenix Force is the fundamental force from which many of the other cosmics derive. Not only does it keep the cycle revolving, but its power fuels it.


I'm not going to go into a lengthy debate with you as it has been done before by people with access to more resources than I have. From what I've read, it is never specifically said that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang, except in the scan with Reed. Even it's bio states it was born from the Big Bang, not the Big Bang itself.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your query was regarding Phoenix as the Big Bang. I have answered that. If you had questioned how powerful it is then i would provided you with a number of scans depicting some of the best feats in Marvel.

No mutant, not Wanda, Jaspers or Franklin Richards have outdone the White Phoenix in terms of feats.

I've seen your scans before, including your lauded "greatest feat in Marvel". Impressive, yes. More impressive than what Wanda or Jaspers were? No.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I'm not going to go into a lengthy debate with you as it has been done before by people with access to more resources than I have. From what I've read, it is never specifically said that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang, except in the scan with Reed. Even it's bio states it was born from the Big Bang, not the Big Bang itself.

The Big Bang is the energies of creation. It is just the initial stage. You have a scan stating that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang. You then have a scan showing the Phoenix Force to be the energies of the Big Bang turned sentient. You also have scans illustrating the point that all life, planets and stars derive from the energies of the Phoenix Force and yet you need it stated for you in every instance that the Phoenix Force stared off as the Big Bang?

Dont be fallacious CD.

The point is stated on panel, plus on top of that you have many instances on panel where the Forces power and nature are depicted on panel and those depictions are in line with Reeds comments.

The Big Bang is the sum of all energy within a universe. You cant have the Big Bang and then a separate power from which all stars, planets and life derive from.

The bio never states that the Phoenix is born from the Big Bang, it states that it is REBORN. The Phoenix is a constant within reality, inlike the abstracts. The Force is the formless energies of teh Big Bang, however following on from that event, the sentient Force as we know it is reborn every creation cycle i.e over time it becomes more than the ambient life force of reality and instead regains sentience:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29815392027.jpg



Originally posted by celestialdemon
've seen your scans before, including your lauded "greatest feat in Marvel". Impressive, yes. More impressive than what Wanda or Jaspers were? No.

Wanda altered the reality of 616 to coincide with her vision, creating House Of M. She placed a veil over 616, she simply changed everyones perceptions of reality, which is why Layla Miller was able to wake characters up and get them to see past this veil Wanda had erected and see into the true 616 reality. Wanda just painted over what was already there.

616 Jaspers as stated in his bio and on panel merely warped the Earth. Its stated that if he was allowed to continue unhindered then his reality warp would gradually have overcome the omniverse.

There are a few implicatuons to that.

1) On panel 616 Jaspers onbly ever warped Planet Earth.
2) He never commanded total control of an entire reality just like that in the fashion of Thanos with the IG(where he could will half the universes population to die just like that) or Phoenix manipulating the entire matter of 616 in her palm just like that. His warp was a gradual build up which would expand unless he was stopped. He was stopped and at the point of that happening, he'd only warped the Earth.

Please reference marvunapp.com and his bio for confirmation of that point.

With all of that in mind, your assessment is incorrect and stems from ignorance of of the storylines behnd all of the aforementioned characters.

If you have need of further information, dont hesistate to ask.

Until then, that will be all.

Further to my point about Braddock. Whats greater?
Someone who can manipulate the sub atomic matter of the entire planet just like that, or someone who creates a reality warp that consumes a state thats would gradually expand to consume a solar system unless stopped.

If Jubilee was given free reign to destroy as much of the planet as she could over an unrestricted time, she could eventually blow up most of the surface world. Does that make her greater than someone like Thor who in a instant can cover a state in a storm?

Jaspers could never assume total control over a reality in seconds. Never has that been demonstrated, not even by alternate reality counterparts. Its a gradual build-up of his reality warp that eventually allows him control on that scale.

And yet because he has been foreseen to consume the omniverse gradually without prevention, he's greater than powers who can consume or manipulate entire realities just like that with a gesture?

Judge by the same standards.

What do you think Phoenix could do if allowed to gradually manipulate reality upon reality over time?

MJJ can only warp Earth?

then wtf is this?

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9255/99178716vp9.th.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7533/48392736kk4.th.jpg

It was seen and predicted that MJJ would cancel the entire Omniverse if not stopped.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
MJJ can only warp Earth?

then wtf is this?

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9255/99178716vp9.th.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7533/48392736kk4.th.jpg

It was seen and predicted that MJJ would cancel the entire Omniverse if not stopped.

Your own evidence supports my point.

Its stated "If thisworld falls.."

616 Jaspers warped Earth and only Earth as stated in his last official bio and as shown on panel.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/madjimj2.htm

(Check the summary for Might World of Marvel #9)

Whilst Jaspers may have allegedly had great potential, on panel he only ever warped the planet.

Shouldn't Franklin be on the list?

Originally posted by Aster Phoenix
Shouldn't Franklin be on the list?

Definitely.

She may not be the most powerful version of the Phoenix, but Dark Phoenix gets major props from me for whipping Darkseid's ass.

I think the list should just be the omega level mutants. I would not consider the Phoenix a mutant, like posted earlier it is a functional part of the universe. Like Galactus, or Death. Where is Iceman on this list, he at least has the potential to be an Omega level, but I would say Xman. Nate Grey.

Nothing from White Phoenix comes close to the Scarlet Witch.

Scarlet Witch is the most powerful mutant and one of the most powreful beings ever in MU (altho there are more mutants among most powerful beings ever in MU such MJJ, Jamie, WPOTC).

Originally posted by Xplosive
Nothing from White Phoenix comes close to the Scarlet Witch.

Scarlet Witch is the most powerful mutant and one of the most powreful beings ever in MU (altho there are more mutants among most powerful beings ever in MU such MJJ, Jamie, WPOTC).

Two of the three were present during her warp yet the place they were was hit by the chaos wave while the place where Jean was remained untouched

The Phoenix shouldn't even be a part of this discussion since it's not a mutant. Darn the topic creator for adding them in there! Xplosive has a point though. SW is more powerful than Jean Grey the mutant, but its debatable if she is more powerful than Jean/WP.

Originally posted by SIAFON
I think the list should just be the omega level mutants. I would not consider the Phoenix a mutant, like posted earlier it is a functional part of the universe. Like Galactus, or Death. Where is Iceman on this list, he at least has the potential to be an Omega level, but I would say Xman. Nate Grey.
I would second that if it would be a thread about the potentially most powerful mutants ... but it isn't.

Btw., Iceman doesn't have the potential to be an omega, he is an omega! Omega doesn't define a current state of power but is the term for a potential.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
The Phoenix shouldn't even be a part of this discussion since it's not a mutant. Darn the topic creator for adding them in there! Xplosive has a point though. SW is more powerful than Jean Grey the mutant, but its debatable if she is more powerful than Jean/WP.

The topic says Jean/Phoenix not the Phoenix Force. White Phoenix is Jean Grey, a mutant, reaching the level of white phoenix is a part of her mutation, she evolved into it especially since she now has her mutant body with her in the white hot room. Even if it weren't pertaining to the White Phoenix, Jean/Phoenix is still a mutant as it was her code name for a number of years. It's like saying Bobby/Iceman.

Jean Grey / Phoenix (ftw )

Hmm shouldnt like Exodus, Legion and franklin richards be on that not to mention Onslaught who technically was a mutant.

In terms of feats:

HoM Wanda
Mad Jim Jaspers
Jaime Braddock
The rest.

Originally posted by id369

Prometheus


Who is this?

HOM Wanda
Jaime Braddock

Mad Jim Jaspers

Dark Phoenix
X-Man
Vulcan
Legion
Magneto

Jean of course, Peace.

Jean Grey herself isn't the most powerful mutant. She possess a bit of the PF so that shouldn't count. Mad Jim Jaspers is a reality warper.

Originally posted by Astanax
Jean Grey herself isn't the most powerful mutant. She possess a bit of the PF so that shouldn't count. Mad Jim Jaspers is a reality warper.
She does not just possess a part of the PF, she actually IS the PF in a human form. And the thing that forged this duality is her genetic code, her mutation, so it very well counts!!!

In terms of feats:

White Phoenix Of Crown
HOM Wanda
Mad Jim Jaspers
Franklin Richards
Jaime Braddock

listen up people. I think that the strongest mutant is the person with the worst luck. That would be Nightcrawler. How does he start his life? Chased by a mob and chucked over a bridge into a river. Saved by a demon dad... put in a circus freak show, drugged and locked in a cage, escapes to be chased by mobs, lives as a monk, finds out that Mistique is his mother, hears from her personally that she never loved him, joins the x-men, has an affair with the Scarlet Witch (see Wolverine and the X-Men) that ends very shortly when she nearly explodes him, finds out he has a daughter from an alternate demension, that his wife from an alternate dimension was the Scarlet Witch, is always put down in the comics and TV shows, is always getting banged around left and right. I'm sorry... some might say Logan... others Juggy... but I'm stickin with Nighty. Worst luck equals strongest for me.

you didnt mention one of the strongest ever, onslaught. which is actually just xavier really evil and usingall his power so i say xavier is the most powerful when he uses ALL his power but i cant vote since its closed

the most powerful mutant without any cosmic amps is probably MJJ.

WPOTC Is so overpowered and overrated!

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
WPOTC Is so overpowered and overrated! In which way?
She's not overused and hyped like ... let's say ... a certain feral mutant.
She's a primary force of the universe like some abstracts (are those also overpowered?) and as such has control over universes, which she only used once on panel. So ... ???

Guys... I hate to say this but your all wrong. NIGHTCRAWLER IN A BIG WAY. How does a freakin baby survive a 40 foot drop off of a bridge into the rapids while his mother runs for her life??? Sorry... Nighty wins this one.

Originally posted by wannabe
In which way?
She's not overused and hyped like ... let's say ... a certain feral mutant.
She's a primary force of the universe like some abstracts (are those also overpowered?) and as such has control over universes, which she only used once on panel. So ... ???

Right and holding the universe in the palm of your hands, being able to defeat any character with relative ease isn't being overpowered.

I have read the vs threads and theres a reason the phoenix(especially white crown) isn't used in a vs debate due to it/her sheer overpoweredness.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Right and holding the universe in the palm of your hands, being able to defeat any character with relative ease isn't being overpowered.

I have read the vs threads and theres a reason the phoenix(especially white crown) isn't used in a vs debate due to it/her sheer overpoweredness.

HALEIGHLUIAH PRAISE THE LORD! So I'm not the only one who thinks Pheonix is an overpowered B****! YES! I mean, I think Logan is a little overdurable but the Pheonix is a load of bullcrap

True, but at least it gave Jean some actual character.

I think the whole Mutant Zero thing verified my assertion that if she had her marbles straight, Typhoid could be incredibly powerful.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Right and holding the universe in the palm of your hands, being able to defeat any character with relative ease isn't being overpowered.

I have read the vs threads and theres a reason the phoenix(especially white crown) isn't used in a vs debate due to it/her sheer overpoweredness.
Maybe, but who cares? She's only coming in this incarnation in extreme situations recquiring such a power level. If she'd be WPotC all the time, fighting people, who have clearly no chance in the first place, i would bother, but since she's not handled this way ...

Originally posted by wannabe
Maybe, but who cares? She's only coming in this incarnation in extreme situations recquiring such a power level. If she'd be WPotC all the time, fighting people, who have clearly no chance in the first place, i would bother, but since she's not handled this way ... Apparently she is when it comes to vs debates.

There are even people stupid enough to think that she could kill a full powered galactus, wipe out tiamut the dreaming celestial, make the LT blow bagpipes out of his ass and DDT the one above all with a blink of her eye.

The reason i dislike all those characters like beyonder, galactus, phoenix LT thanos with IG is due to them being ridiculously overpowered sometimes.

Sure wolverine sometimes seems overdurable but does he holds a universe in his palm and takes a dump in it?

Lol this thread still going yeah i know the phoenix is a cosmic force who possesses jean from time to time i just added it to the list along with dark phoenix but that's why i said to not just pick from the list, there's so many mutants and didn't have enough room in the poll for every mutant going in the x-verse.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Apparently she is when it comes to vs debates.
If it's her representation in the vs debates that's bothering you, DON'T ATTEND TO THOSE. In the comics you will certainly not stumble about WPotC very often, if at all, so why bother?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
There are even people stupid enough to think that she could kill a full powered galactus, wipe out tiamut the dreaming celestial, make the LT blow bagpipes out of his ass and DDT the one above all with a blink of her eye.
Well, i don't know enough about most abstracts, cause just like you i happen to despise those cosmic powered beings, but clearly WPotC is much more powerful than even a full powered Galactus. Any other incarnation might be debated, but clearly not this one.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
The reason i dislike all those characters like beyonder, galactus, phoenix LT thanos with IG is due to them being ridiculously overpowered sometimes.
As i said above, i feel the same. Those characters bore me to death. What i liked most about WPofC was the fact hat she only did something that mattered once and without a fight. Otherwise she thankfully is only referred to or pretty much left alone. Hope it stays that way.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Sure wolverine sometimes seems overdurable but does he holds a universe in his palm and takes a dump in it?
He certainly does not, but when i think about what bothers me more, a streetleveler who's used in almost every comic book series at the same time and constantly pushed to or over the edge of his powers, defeating pretty much anyone, no matter how ridiculous it may seem, or a nigh almighty cosmic entity, that's hardly used at all, and if used is pretty much nothing but a cosmic plumber ... well ... i guess you know in which direction this goes.

Originally posted by wannabe
If it's her representation in the vs debates that's bothering you, DON'T ATTEND TO THOSE. In the comics you will certainly not stumble about WPotC very often, if at all, so why bother? It doesn't bother me and why bother? I bother because certain fanboys overhype and super over rate the white phoenix(galacticstorm especially) and he even went as far as he could to claim that TOAA(god) does not exist and is non canon when in fact he is.



Originally posted by wannabe

Well, i don't know enough about most abstracts, cause just like you i happen to despise those cosmic powered beings, but clearly WPotC is much more powerful than even a full powered Galactus. Any other incarnation might be debated, but clearly not this one. A semi decently fed galactus was already able to blow up an entire universe within an instant, i don't have that scan but that mr master does.

I doubt WPOTC far surpasses a full powered galactus but maybe on par because we have never actually seen galactus at his maximum potential, i certainly have seen what he did at half power blowing up universes with ease.

And what was her greatest feat? Changing the reality when an alternate reality universe was in her palm? The fact that she could only do it in the white hot room?

BTW the living tribunal is more than a match for WPOTC according to an out of universe source, only somebody as obsessed as galacticstorm would attempt to argue against this :

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r32/nadd_9/livingtribunal14jr.jpg

^
Living tribunals only superior is the one above all


Originally posted by wannabe

As i said above, i feel the same. Those characters bore me to death. What i liked most about WPofC was the fact hat she only did something that mattered once and without a fight. Otherwise she thankfully is only referred to or pretty much left alone. Hope it stays that way.
Im sincerely glad we feel the same way
Originally posted by wannabe

He certainly does not, but when i think about what bothers me more, a streetleveler who's used in almost every comic book series at the same time and constantly pushed to or over the edge of his powers, defeating pretty much anyone, no matter how ridiculous it may seem, or a nigh almighty cosmic entity, that's hardly used at all, and if used is pretty much nothing but a cosmic plumber ... well ... i guess you know in which direction this goes. Yea well to be honest i'm more of a fan of ultimate marvel than the mainstream comics.

Hell i even llike the ultimate version of the phoenix although she is a little bit overpowered(im looking at the apocalypse fight).

Phoenix/Dark Phoenix is the most powerful mutant, but without the Phoenix Force, Mr. M trumps all of them.

Phoenix isn't a mutant... its a cosmic being, a primal force.

Originally posted by KingD19
Phoenix/Dark Phoenix is the most powerful mutant, but without the Phoenix Force, Mr. M trumps all of them. MJJ, Scarlet Witch, Frankin Richards (not relly)

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
It doesn't bother me and why bother? I bother because certain fanboys overhype and super over rate the white phoenix(galacticstorm especially) and he even went as far as he could to claim that TOAA(god) does not exist and is non canon when in fact he is.
So it DOES bother you, otherwise you wouldn't complain, would you?!
Again: Don't attend to Phoenix-related threads then.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
BTW the living tribunal is more than a match for WPOTC according to an out of universe source, only somebody as obsessed as galacticstorm would attempt to argue against this :
Why pointing that out to me? I never doubted or questioned that in any way!

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Phoenix isn't a mutant... its a cosmic being, a primal force.:
Yeah, but her corporeal form is one of a human mutant whose genetic code forges the bond between flesh and cosmic force. So she is a mutant who happens to be the embodyment of what you said.

Originally posted by wannabe
So it DOES bother you, otherwise you wouldn't complain, would you?!
Again: Don't attend to Phoenix-related threads then. Good point. But i'll just take a peak.

To be honest though it isn't the phoenix itself that annoys me, its obsessive people like galacticstorm and people that masturbate to jean grey panels that over exaggerate her cosmic powers which is actually what annoys me, funny that i just realized this

Originally posted by wannabe

Why pointing that out to me? I never doubted or questioned that in any way! Haha my apologies, i got a little carried away but i never thought that you questioned it.

Originally posted by wannabe

Yeah, but her corporeal form is one of a human mutant whose genetic code forges the bond between flesh and cosmic force. So she is a mutant who happens to be the embodyment of what you said. Thanks for clearing that up.

I don't have much knowledge on the mainstream 616 comics so i may be a little ignorant on certain subjects involving the 616 comics.

none of the above.
either but not limited to....
Franklin Richards
Jim Jaspers
Jamie Braddok

the Phoenix Entity is not a mutant

Yeah, Jaspers and Jamie are probably the tops, with Jaspers edging out the win because he was stated to be a multi universal threat. And 616 is more powerful than the one that was defeated. Phoenix is not a mutant, and neither is Franklin, I think he got his powers because his parents(Sue Storm and Namor) both had powers.

Franklin Richards is a mutant. And is the most powerful.

He is, that's right, but Sue still cheats on Reed.

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
... the Phoenix Entity is not a mutant
The pure energy of the Phoenix Force isn't, but Phoenix very well is. Is Havoc not a mutant just because he's using cosmic radiation as an energy source, or is Bishop not a mutant just because he channels any kind of energy? Jeans genetic makeup, HER MUTATION, forges a bond to the PF, makes her one with it. So to say Phoenix is not a mutant just because she controls (is) the energies of the PF is not correct.

No, we're saying the Phoenix Force is no mutant, it's an essential part of the universe, unfathomable energy. Jean is just a powerful mutant. Kid Omega was a phoenix at one point as well.

So then why pointing out that the PF is no mutant, when the non-corporeal PF is not free to be chosen anyway? It's about Jean as Phoenix, and it IS her mutation that gives her access to the PF. Yes, Quentin and others have/will have/potentially have also access to it - and? It's like pointing out there are many mutants with acces to the astral plane, or many mutants who can harness cosmic radiation, or many mutants who have access to other dimensions.

Franklin is a mutant. and powerful too. someone that can create other realities next to the one theyre standing in terrasect spaces and create those terrasect spaces as well is pretty up there.

the Phoenix thing let me put it this way. Jean Grey has her own powers and is a mutant. The Phoenix is another entity all together and is "jacking" her up so to speak. It would be like rating Wolverine as he was the horseman of Death. Jean is also an Alpha level mutant, not an Omega.

In fact most of the mutants in the poll dont even belong there.

here some that dont
Cable
Jean
Dark Phoenix (same character as above)
Racheal Summers
Storm
Rogue

heres some that do
Darwin
X-Man
Selene
Iceman
Dazzler
Quentin Quire
Franklin Richards
Stryfe
Mr. Immortal
Mr.M (deceased)
Chamber (depowered)
James Jaspers
Jamie Braddock
Vulcan
Scarlet Witch
Shadow King


Franklin Richards is the most powerful mutant hands down.


Legion

Originally posted by wannabe
So then why pointing out that the PF is no mutant, when the non-corporeal PF is not free to be chosen anyway? It's about Jean as Phoenix, and it IS her mutation that gives her access to the PF. Yes, Quentin and others have/will have/potentially have also access to it - and? It's like pointing out there are many mutants with acces to the astral plane, or many mutants who can harness cosmic radiation, or many mutants who have access to other dimensions.

thats stretching the truth. Jeans "power" is not to host the Phoenix Force. The PF is A SEPARATE ENTITY...OK. It would be the same if
Shadow King possesed Wolverine, which he's cabable of. This would not make Wolverine the most powerful mutant, nor would it imply that because he was capable of being a host he was therefore the entity nor as powerful as it himself. think Charles wearing Cerebro here (though as BA as he his since his ressurection i doubt he needs it anymore)

lmfao at people thinking Mr.M was powerful.

MJJ's one of the topdogs.

Franklin and Jaspers are probably the two top dogs, with Jamie following behind. And Mr.M isn't dead, he's just, not there anymore. Remember, he left that message that said some things don' die, they evolve. And if he evolves any furhter, he might well be at Jaspers level.

have to agree with the above, Franklin then Jaspers.
potentially they could be even, but Franklins had larger showings and he's still a kid. Squirrel Girl gets honorable mention of course.

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
thats stretching the truth. Jeans "power" is not to host the Phoenix Force. The PF is A SEPARATE ENTITY...OK. It would be the same if
Shadow King possesed Wolverine, which he's cabable of. This would not make Wolverine the most powerful mutant, nor would it imply that because he was capable of being a host he was therefore the entity nor as powerful as it himself. think Charles wearing Cerebro here (though as BA as he his since his ressurection i doubt he needs it anymore)
It's not at all stretching the truth. It's established canon that Jean and the Phoenixforce are one and the same (see Phoenix: Endsong). She is the PF gone corporeal. Furthermore it is stated that the ultimate mutation is the ability to access the PF.
Being able to be possessed by Shadowking is not an innate genetically determined ability of anyone, neither is using Cerebro, but in order to successfully merge with the PF you need a certain genetic makeup, that only certain omega mutants (Jean, Rachel, Quentin, ...) have DUE to their mutation.

Originally posted by wannabe
It's not at all stretching the truth. It's established canon that Jean and the Phoenixforce are one and the same (see Phoenix: Endsong). She is the PF gone corporeal. Furthermore it is stated that the ultimate mutation is the ability to access the PF.
Being able to be possessed by Shadowking is not an innate genetically determined ability of anyone, neither is using Cerebro, but in order to successfully merge with the PF you need a certain genetic makeup, that only certain omega mutants (Jean, Rachel, Quentin, ...) have DUE to their mutation.

having the genetic makeup to access to host an entity does not make one the entity itself.
Jean Grey and The Phoenix force are not the same entity!
Jean Grey is also not classified as an Omega level mutant she is in fact classified as an ALpha, which neither matters to the abiltiy to host the Phoenix Force or anything else. do you actyually even know the definitions? its not even an actaul recognised scale, its a coined catch phrase used in a few comics, it has no overall relevance to the characters and did not exsist anytime near their origins. in Phoenix: Endsong Jean and The Phoenix Force where not the same being and in fact acted against each other directly, like when it was taunting her about losing Cyclops for example.

-----
mutant classifications
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Omega_Level_Mutants

The Phoenix Force
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_Force

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
having the genetic makeup to access to host an entity does not make one the entity itself.
Jean Grey and The Phoenix force are not the same entity!
Jean Grey is also not classified as an Omega level mutant she is in fact classified as an ALpha, which neither matters to the abiltiy to host the Phoenix Force or anything else. do you actyually even know the definitions? its not even an actaul recognised scale, its a coined catch phrase used in a few comics, it has no overall relevance to the characters and did not exsist anytime near their origins. in Phoenix: Endsong Jean and The Phoenix Force where not the same being and in fact acted against each other directly, like when it was taunting her about losing Cyclops for example.
I am actually a little surprised. Almost everything about your post is as wrong as it gets?!

1. Yes, having the fitting genetic makeup to access the PF doesn't automatically make one the PF itself - that only applies to Jean Grey. Nonetheless, being able to successfully merge with the PF is part of a mutant genetic anomaly, making it a valid mutant ability, which was my initial point.

2. In "Phoenix: Endsong", when Wolverine asks her whether he's speaking to Jean or the Phoenix, she explains to him that she's always Jean and also the Phoenix, that she (not it!) died and was broken into countless pieces, that it was too early for her resurrection because she (not it!) still misses some pieces. Furthermore the deranged PF-fragment in Emma Frost became irritated by the fact that the resurrected Jean was able to stand up against it though it was supposedly not part of her. Jean reminds it of the fact that she could, because she and it are one and the same, that it is but a missing piece of her.

3. The term "omega level mutant" was first seen in the 1986 issue Uncanny X-Men #207 (Rachel became identified as such by Nimrod, if i recall correctly), but was completely unexplained (beyond the obvious implication of it referring to an exceptional level of power). The term resurfaced in the 2001 limited series "X-Men Forever". In this series, and thus in the whole Marvel universe, the first ones to be identified as omega level mutants with an explanation about what it means were Jean Grey and Iceman. Since then the term has often been referred to on panel.

and this changes the fact of how Jean is classified how?
Jean is powerful not the most.

The Phoenix Force is uber. Jean is not the Phoenix force. she was born
a looooooooooooooong time afterwards. also, it has other shared hosts.
so are they all the most powerful mutant then by your logic?
actually my post was correct. your is a copy of a wikipedia entry.
-10 points to you.

here, i have a better idea, since words seem to be confusing for you.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_Force

read that. try not to add little things in a twist new things out of it, just read what is there. thats a direct copy of what was in the last entry
for The Phoenix Force in The Official Marvel Handbooks. this isnt a matter of opinion. Marvels right, your wrong. deal with it.

Jean is not one of the most powerful mutants. she is not rated as an Omega-level mutant, and definatly not because you decide she is, contrary to what Marvel published in plain English. she is classified as an ALpha, for the reason that she is flawed. i provided you a link that
gives the definition of mutant classes earlier. by your statement you didnt read it. none of this means Jean sucks. I f you feel it does and have a problem with it, perhaps you either lack faith in your characer
or are too emotionally attached to someone who is fictional. in anycase, if its this hard for you to accept what Marvel themseelves made, then write them about it.

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
and this changes the fact of how Jean is classified how?
Jean is powerful not the most.
Our particular discussion (at least on my behalf) was not about who is the most powerful mutant, but about whether Jean as Phoenix can be counted as a mutant or not.

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
The Phoenix Force is uber. Jean is not the Phoenix force. she was born
a looooooooooooooong time afterwards. also, it has other shared hosts.
so are they all the most powerful mutant then by your logic?
actually my post was correct. your is a copy of a wikipedia entry.
-10 points to you.
Yes, Jean was naturally born a long time after the PF, so what? The PF had hosts before her and after her, but since Endsong it is canon, that Jean is not just a host like Rachel or Quentin, but the PF gone corporeal.

Your assumption of my "supposed" logic is rather shortsighted. First - it's not my logic at all. Second - each host can access the PF to a different degree, so no, they are not automatically bound to be equally powerful.

Yes a part of what i posted in my last comment was from wiki - because it was correct and i didn't saw the sense in wasting time to rephrasing something that is correct in the first place.

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
here, i have a better idea, since words seem to be confusing for you.
Why do you feel the need to get condescending? Until now i thought we had a mature discussion here?!

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_Force

read that. try not to add little things in a twist new things out of it, just read what is there. thats a direct copy of what was in the last entry
for The Phoenix Force in The Official Marvel Handbooks. this isnt a matter of opinion. Marvels right, your wrong. deal with it.
So you prefer "handbook-evidence" over "on-panel-evidence" - fine - nonetheless i recommend you read the last sentences of the article you yourself linked here, or (even better) you read Phoenix: Endsong again and pay particular attention to what Jean and Wolverine are discussing as well as to what Jean and the Phonix-fragment in Emma are discussing.

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
Jean is not one of the most powerful mutants. she is not rated as an Omega-level mutant, and definatly not because you decide she is
It's never been and never will be my part to decide any classification of Jean's mutant level. I can only strongly suggest you read the series "X-Men Forever", where the term omega level mutant was explained by Charles Xavier for the first time, with Iceman and Jean being the second and third mutant (Rachel in Uncanny X-Men #207 being the first) labeled as such.

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
contrary to what Marvel published in plain English. she is classified as an ALpha, for the reason that she is flawed. i provided you a link that
gives the definition of mutant classes earlier. by your statement you didnt read it. none of this means Jean sucks. I f you feel it does and have a problem with it, perhaps you either lack faith in your characer or are too emotionally attached to someone who is fictional. in anycase, if its this hard for you to accept what Marvel themseelves made, then write them about it.
1. Again i don't see the need to get dismissive!!!

2. So me providing you with information from wiki that uses precise references to particular comic books results in "-10 points" for me, but you providing me with a link to wiki information, who are simply fan based assumptions, is perfectly ok???
Btw: Even the wiki link you provided (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Omega_Level_Mutants#Classification) to prove me wrong says Jean is an Omega level mutant ... didn't you read it in advance?
And i quote (from YOUR link): "All Omega mutants are also Alpha mutants but not all Alpha mutants are Omega mutants. For example Jean Grey is an Alpha mutant because of her power and lack of flaws and is also an Omega mutant because of how powerful she is."

said she was both. Alpha and Omega. thats what the link states as well. again, Omega doesnt mean much. Elixer is an Omega.

anyways, thats great and all, but Jean isnt the most powerful mutant, which is the question posed here.
the Phoenix Force, not a mutant, is one of the if not the most powerful cosmic entities.
Jean being able to house the Phoenix Force, which as we saw in the White Hot Room is one of many, is no more a power standard than Storm being able to house Eternity.
Jean Grey is not the most powerful MUTANT. powerful character is debatable, mutant no.

Wow! such misinformation going on in this thread.... it seems by both sides.....and how does a poster.. post a link to info...and not even read it...then blow it off as nothing?

! Rachael according to the majority is not an omega level mutant...the argument was...that way before..... a nimrod assesment of a level of threat...was and is not a clarification of her status as per charles xavier...do i agree..maybe..but you wont find many who will take rachael as a omega level mutant

2 Jean grey is an omega level mutant...no if and's or but's!

My vote is for Franklin Richards

Originally posted by CATMANEXE
said she was both. Alpha and Omega. thats what the link states as well. again, Omega doesnt mean much. Elixer is an Omega.

anyways, thats great and all, but Jean isnt the most powerful mutant, which is the question posed here.
the Phoenix Force, not a mutant, is one of the if not the most powerful cosmic entities.
Jean being able to house the Phoenix Force, which as we saw in the White Hot Room is one of many, is no more a power standard than Storm being able to house Eternity.
Jean Grey is not the most powerful MUTANT. powerful character is debatable, mutant no.
OH my ... i guess now it's my turn to be condescending: It's not worth the time discussing this issue with someone who's is as uninformed and cognizance resistant as you are.


Originally posted by starlock
Rachael according to the majority is not an omega level mutant...the argument was...that way before..... a nimrod assesment of a level of threat...was and is not a clarification of her status as per charles xavier...do i agree..maybe..but you wont find many who will take rachael as a omega level mutant

2 Jean grey is an omega level mutant...no if and's or but's!
You are right with these. Rachael has not rightfully been confirmed as an omega like Xavier defined the term, it's only Nimrod's statement, her heritage, the fact that she's been described as having unlimited telepathic potential and her ability to host the PF, that strongly hint she is. Again: admittedly no real but very strong circumstantial proof.

yes, i did read it...neither of you did which is a little silly since its only a couple short paragraphs long...




any questions. you can feel free to remove your foots from your mouths now if you wish.

wait i am confused, i looked up mutants classified as alpha, jean grey is not among them, but you just say she is both alpha and omega or is it implied that since she is omega that she is alpha?? please do not get mad at me, i just do not understand the classification.

Actually, Gambit is Alpha, he just had a lobotomy to remove a portion of his brain. If he hadn't, he would have been on New Son's level.

"....All Omega mutants are also Alpha mutants but not all Alpha mutants are Omega mutants. For example Jean Grey is an Alpha mutant because of her power and lack of flaws and is also an Omega mutant because of how powerful she is...."


as quoted by CATMANEXE.

I meant Gambit was Omega.

I see the poll that i did has caused quite a debate okay results so 11 have voted dark phoenix either though shes not a mutan interesting and 13 have voted jean grey/phoenix even though the phoenix is a cosmic force who posses jean from time to time hmm does that make her the most powerful though ? Wish i could redo the poll now but i cant yeah most of them i put shouden't really be on so okay ignore the poll for now and why don't we write a list of about 8 who should of been on it instead

Yes i agree, we should change the list but i think we should all agree on this classification system if we are gonna go anywhere with this discussion.


Ok, i think i get how the class system goes

Omega
Alpha
Beta
Gamma
Delta
Epsilon-Delta
Epsilon
Zeta.

You really only need to know who are Omegas, none of the others really matter.

Omega doesn't really matter either, it's about their potential.

Originally posted by Mindset
Omega , it's about their potential. A fact many peaople tend to forget or mix up with character's current powerlevel.

Example: Jean as first Marvel Girl was an omega mutant, but hadn't reached her potential yet. Jean as WPotC is an omega mutant with access to her full potential.

Originally posted by wannabe
A fact many peaople tend to forget or mix up with character's current powerlevel.

Example: Jean as first Marvel Girl was an omega mutant, but hadn't reached her potential yet. Jean as WPotC is an omega mutant with access to her full potential.

Ok, i think i get what you mean.

Squirrel Girl for the most powerful mutant.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Squirrel_Girl
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Doreen_Green_(Earth-616)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_Girl
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/sqlgrl.htm
http://www.comicvine.com/mutant/12-40656/

can there be any argument? Squirrel Girl ftw!!!.

David Haller Charles Xaviers son was the most powerfull he caused age of apocalypse he had a mixture of deadly powers only came in the comic Legion quest

HOM Wanda is

For the list...taking Jean

Originally posted by guy222
HOM Wanda is

For the list...taking Jean

If Storm becomes an omega, watch out Jeanie

Originally posted by guy222
HOM Wanda is

For the list...taking Jean

bishop should be on this list

Originally posted by ekie0
bishop should be on this list
What makes you think so?

for me the most powerful mutant is Jean Grey, she so smart and reall y like the way she fight...

Hyperstorm
Franklin Richards
Scarlet Witch
MJJ

Take your pick...

he's the most durable for one. and fully charged he would be able to easily kill any of them save phoenix jean.

Originally posted by ekie0
he's the most durable for one. and fully charged he would be able to easily kill any of them save phoenix jean.
Both statements are not quite true, i'm afraid.
Colossus, Cecilia Reyes, Armor, Frenzy, to name just a few, are far more durable than Bishop. And the theoretical ability to kill someone is hardly a measurement for one's overall power. Any idiot with a gun could theoretically kill most of the X-Men.

Bishop couldn`t take out Apoc if you cloned him ten times.

hmm

possibly Legion

Phoenix Force is not mutant. X-man is not included or Franklin Richards / rest of the Omega levels ... This has been most definetily already been mentioned, but I am too lazy to read all the posts.

Onlsaught,David Richards(Exiles hyperstorm),Mister M,MJJ,HoM Wanda,Nate Grey/Cable,Jamie Braddock, and... thumbdown..DP

Jean grey with the phoenix force but even with that does that make her the most powerful. After all she has lost battles even with the force correct me if I'm wrong

If you're just considering from the mutant vs. mutant perspective, I'd say the most powerful is Pulse + a shotgun.

If you mean powerful as in able to affect large scale, then any reality warper or matter manipulator.

If you mean powerful as in tough/resistant, then Darwin.

Hyperstorm is the most powerful mutant. Hyperstorm can defeat any mutant. Individually that is. Not all at the same time. This is assuming that mutants are humans.

Originally posted by kiwiacai
Hyperstorm is the most powerful mutant. Hyperstorm can defeat any mutant. Individually that is. Not all at the same time. This is assuming that mutants are humans.



No.

Why do you disagree? Could you perhaps give a more elucidatory and explicative reply, as to why Hyperstorm is not the most powerful mutant? Or is there something else that you do not agree with me on?

Hyperstorm-controls reality
Phoenix-pretty obvious why
Siena Blaze-Risks accidentally destroying the planet every time she uses her powers (and doesn't care). For those who don't know, Siena Blaze (before her inferred death at neverland) was a member of the Upstarts and later a hero in the ultraverse. Basically, if there ever was a character that was a deadly threat to Magneto, its her. Her powers are to teleport, create shockwaves and explosions, flight, and inhibition of others teleporting...all powered by ripping apart the Earth's magnetic fields and causing local and potentially global ecological disasters. Every time she used her powers, there was a chance that she'd literally rip off the atmosphere or tear the planet in half. I'd say that's pretty powerful.

On the bad guy side It's a toss up in between Thanos with the gautlet, Apocalypse, and Dr. Doom.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
On the bad guy side It's a toss up in between Thanos with the gautlet, Apocalypse, and Dr. Doom.

Doom is a mutant now?

well, he wasn't born one but he's mutated into what he is. which makes him a mutant.

That would make Michael Jackson a mutant too

And spiderman.

Mesmero

Ultra-Hypnosis allows him to make others feel, smell, hear, think, remember, forget, and do anything he wants and all he needs is simple eye contact. Jean Grey couldnt escape it and he also mind controlled the entire Alpha Flight team to fight each other, and when Murmur touched him to make him 'sleep' he simply laughed and told her that if she was going to mess with another mind manipulator to make sure her powers are stronger and laughed.

So technically he could mindcontrol anyone he wishes with eye contact and his mental abilities allow him to be resistant to even Xavier I would imagine. So therefor unless everyone attempts to fight him with their eyes closed he would be the most powerful mutant to exhist.

Originally posted by Evo
Mesmero

Ultra-Hypnosis allows him to make others feel, smell, hear, think, remember, forget, and do anything he wants and all he needs is simple eye contact. Jean Grey couldnt escape it and he also mind controlled the entire Alpha Flight team to fight each other, and when Murmur touched him to make him 'sleep' he simply laughed and told her that if she was going to mess with another mind manipulator to make sure her powers are stronger and laughed.

So technically he could mindcontrol anyone he wishes with eye contact and his mental abilities allow him to be resistant to even Xavier I would imagine. So therefor unless everyone attempts to fight him with their eyes closed he would be the most powerful mutant to exhist.
what about cyclops? just curious

I've always maintained that were she to get her marbles together or find a way to maintain her Bloody Mary Persona, Typhoid/Mutant Zero has the potential of being a very powerful mutant.
For those who don't know, at her peak as shown in issues of Spider-Man, Marvel Comics Presents... and Daredevil, Mary has the powers of low-grade telepathy, high grade telekinesis as shown by the fact that she can immediately assemble a suit of armor for herself out of nearby materials and launch multiple projectiles at people, enhanced strength and agility, and pyrokinesis, expressed by the fact that she can instantly ignite anything or anyone in her vicinity simply by thinking or saying the word "burn". There are also a couple of panels back from Inferno that show her buddying up to the likes of Mephisto and certain limbo demons and looking very Goblin Queenish so she may have some magical/demonic potential as well. I'm also assuming that palling around with Taskmaster doesn't hurt either.

Oh, and being beaten by Daredevil doesn't mean much since he's only been able to beat her once in a straight on physical fight, her powers aren't reliable due to her mental problems, and he's pretty much on the top tier of costumed heroes when it comes to fighting skills and has beaten or held off opponents that supposedly outclass him by quite a bit.

Guys... I just realized... Doreen Green aka Squirrel Gisl is a Mutant.

/thread

yes she is.

I say magneto

Mad Jim Jaspers is by far the most powerful human mutant. Even above Franklin Richards and Jamie Braddock.

The Beyonder is not a human mutant, but would be the most powerful whatever he is.

Squirrel Girl stomp MJJ and put him in the time out corner for being a very very bad man.

Squirrel Girl definitely
MJJ manipulates reality
SG defies reality with pure awesomeness

Originally posted by Mshinu
Squirrel Girl stomp MJJ and put him in the time out corner for being a very very bad man.

Squirrel Girl is not a human mutant.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Squirrel Girl is not a human mutant.

What kind of mutant is she then?

Probably a squirrel mutant. LOL. I have no clue, but it is a pretty ridiculous character.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Probably a squirrel mutant. LOL. I have no clue, but it is a pretty ridiculous character.

Got some proof? Never heard of her being an evolved squirrel.. she is supposed to have human parents.

omg pyro is the strongest bc he can shoot fire

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Squirrel Girl is not a human mutant.

She's a mutant Pinksushi man you are defiant!

Originally posted by emoboy13
omg pyro is the strongest bc he can shoot fire

He has canisters that shoot fire emo! But he does control fire
Which sux.