Star Forge empowered Malak vs Mace Windu (Takes place on the Star Forge)

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Kotor3
I view Mace Windu with high regard but I do not believe he could do what Revan did. So I am going with Malak.

Darth Subjekt
Well, with Vaapad, the stronger the darkside energies being thrown at him, the more he has to work with a use himself. I'm not too sure on how much the SF boosts Malak, but i don't think it would be enough to defeat Sidious, which Mace did up until Anakin interfered. Even the lightning was a detriment to Sidious, himself.

So, I'm leaning towards Mace, but I won't say its a clear cut victory until I hear from someone who knows a little bit more about Malak.

Schwarzenegger
well malaks attacks are stronger on the SF for one and if this takes place on the platform that he battled revan, then he would have the advantage of draining captive jedi to replenish his energies.

I'm leaning with windu on this one.

Kotor3
The battle does take place where Malak fought Revan. I guess the question is could Mace repeatedly take down Malak?

Man of Christ
Mace pwned siddious in less than5 minutes, why should a star forge empowered malak be a threat? malak is nowhere near siddious in terms of power, maybe malak is about in dooku league, this is so 1 sided

Kotor3
Originally posted by Man of Christ
Mace pwned siddious in less than5 minutes, why should a star forge empowered malak be a threat? malak is nowhere near siddious in terms of power, maybe malak is about in dooku league, this is so 1 sided

True, however even though Mace disarmed Sidious he did not necessarily defeat him. We do know that Sidious decided to stay on the ground in act of seducing Anakin to the dark side. If Anakin never came I doubt Sidious would have let himself die.

Mace only defeated Sidious in a saber battle. When Sidious was fighting for his life against Yoda he was not defeated. In that fight we again saw Sidious without his saber.

Kotor3
Another factor to consider, does Mace have the force techniques to counter what Malak would throw at him? Does Mace have the strength and will power to resist the dark energies on the Star Forge?

Null ARC Avis
you are all using the Mace>sidious>Malak = Mace>Malak formula, which is the infamous A>B>C = A>C formula, which means very little. Mace beat sidious in a saber dual, and sidious honestly isnt too good with a blade. Malak, on the other hand, was a very well trained swordsman, better than sidious i must say, and will but up a much better dual than Sidious did against Mace. Plus Malak has 8 or so lives here, and his dark side powers are strengthened by the power of the star forge. Windu is good, but he isnt God. I think Malak will eventually take him.

joesdabest1
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
you are all using the Mace>sidious>Malak = Mace>Malak formula, which is the infamous A>B>C = A>C formula, which means very little. Mace beat sidious in a saber dual, and sidious honestly isnt too good with a blade. Malak, on the other hand, was a very well trained swordsman, better than sidious i must say, and will but up a much better dual than Sidious did against Mace. Plus Malak has 8 or so lives here, and his dark side powers are strengthened by the power of the star forge. Windu is good, but he isnt God. I think Malak will eventually take him.


Sidious is def. better than Malak with a saber.

Null ARC Avis
prove it.

Blax_Hydralisk
He shouldn't have to... It's pretty apparent.

Null ARC Avis
ive been gone a while. please, enlighten me.

Blax_Hydralisk
Talking to the wrong troll.

Schwarzenegger
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
ive been gone a while. please, enlighten me. Really? What exactly shows that malak is THAT impressive with the saber? Sidious was able to TOOL 3 of the greatest jedi swordsman in the orders history in a few seconds and this sidious did not wield the blade for 13 years, imagine how much more brutal and monstrous he would be during his peak.


Oh and windu tools malak in a saber duel.

Elite Hunter
Malak's saber skills are even more of an unknown then Revan's. We know that someone(Revan?) cut off his jaw, we know that he defeated your party on the Leviathan 3v1 and we know that Revan killed him on the star forge, while he may have been the second greatest duelist while he was alive, there is not even evidence to put him on Windu's level.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
Plus Malak has 8 or so lives here,

Malak has 1 life with option to drain the jedi in stasis to empower/replenish himself but if Windu strikes him with a fatal blow like that type Sidious lands on the 3 jedi (they die instantly and fall to the ground) than he would have no way to recover.

That said should he drain the captive jedi ahead of time he does stand a better chance of winning if he uses the force and can avoid the Sidious makeover.

Master Crimzon
Lawlz. Sidious is amazing with a blade, and has far more feats and quotes in comparison to Malak. Mace was capable of beating him with with a saber thanks to the advantages of Vaapad and Shatterpoint, advantages he will also have fighting 'gainst Malak.

To support this:

-Sidious was capable at speeds identified only as a 'blur' in the canonical RotS novel. I've already explained many, many times why I believe that certain piece of information is canonical, so I won't repeat it again.
-Sidious utterly decimated three of the greatest swordsmen in the Order's history. Not too good with a blade, eh?
-Stalemated Yoda, the 'most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known' in lightsaber combat.
-Was said to be a level 9, on par with people like Yoda and Mace, in terms of lightsaber combat abilities by Nick Gillard.

Malak is virtually an unknown in terms of saber combat abilities. He definetly dies in the lightsaber duel.

Kotor3

Man of Christ

Elite Hunter

Blax_Hydralisk

Kotor3
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Vapaad.



Excuses. A godo duelist should not lose simply because someone "knows their style". Anakin lost because he's an idiot. Not simply because Obi-Wan knew his style..




... no expression





It doesn't really matter. The worse that'll happen if Mace "succumbs to the dark energies" is that his Vapaad will become even more lethal and after he wipes the floor with Malak he'll go darkside and forever be a dark Jedi... that doesn't have any bearing on this fight hough.

That is more interesting, it is possible for Mace to succumb to the dark side and if he does that may go in his advantage. Otherwise we still have no record that I am aware of that Mace could stand up to the dark energies emitted from the Star Forge.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Malak has never faced the type of people Mace had in saber combat. Your entire argument is based on the lack of information for Malak. It is very stupid to say that Malak can compare to Mace in saber combat because he might be really good with zero evidence to back it up. While Mace is one of the deadliest duelists of all time. The fact is he doesn't and probably never will.



You do realize that it took a very long time for the Rakatan to be corrupted by the star forge and Mace would only be on it for this battle.

Really how so? We have no idea how long it took. It could have been short or long. The Rakatans practice the dark art so it could not have the same affect as it would on a light user who has no real experience with dealing with dark energies of the that magnitude.

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by Kotor3
Really how so? We have no idea how long it took. It could have been short or long. The Rakatans practice the dark art so it could not have the same affect as it would on a light user who has no real experience with dealing with dark energies of the that magnitude.

According to wookieepedia it took about 200 years after the star forge was built for the infinite empire to crumble after a civil war and plague(which takes longer than a day which this duel wont even take half that time). Then there is the fact the Revan,Juhani,Jolee, and many jedi actually landed and fought on the thing and they weren't affected by its "dark energies" as you put it. And guess what Mace is far above any jedi that landed on the star forge save for Revan, so yes just being on the thing doesn't seem affect those jed(it is up to you to prove otherwise that it has the same affect as malachor on jedi) so I see no reason why Mace would be affected by it.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
According to wookieepedia it took about 200 years after the star forge was built for the infinite empire to crumble after a civil war and plague(which takes longer than a day which this duel wont even take half that time). Then there is the fact the Revan,Juhani,Jolee, and many jedi actually landed and fought on the thing and they weren't affected by its "dark energies" as you put it. And guess what Mace is far above any jedi that landed on the star forge save for Revan, so yes just being on the thing doesn't seem affect those jed(it is up to you to prove otherwise that it has the same affect as malachor on jedi) so I see no reason why Mace would be affected by it.

The Rakatans were a powerful race that were engulfed in using the dark side and pour those dark energies into the Star Forge. That is 200 years of dark energies. So let us address my statement which you did not do.

I never stated that a dark user would be affected in a bad way immediately. As you have stated Elite on a previous thread I made a "dark artifact or place is the same" thus it will affect a light user in a negative way no matter what.

Seeing that it took 200 years that would make the Star Forge all the more powerful in dark energies especially since it in the long run corrupted even dark users. Remember Revan by the time of reaching the Star Forge was already headed if not there to the dark side. Who knows his contact with the Star Forge could have completed his fall.

Also not game play according to my knowledge story only mentions not game play story Revan boarding the Star Forge. I never heard Juhani,Jolee names mention.

Still have no one has proven how Mace would be just ok on the Star Forge.

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by Kotor3
I never stated that a dark user would be affected in a bad way immediately. As you have stated Elite on a previous thread I made a "dark artifact or place is the same" thus it will affect a light user in a negative way no matter what.

I'm pretty sure I said that any darksider would get a "power boost" from a "dark artifact or place" not that it would necessarily affect a lightsider directly (power wise) but the main point that I was trying to make before is that there is no evidence that the darkside would corrupt a lightsider,let alone in one as powerful as Mace in a short amount of time like I mistook your post nor is there proof that the star forge can corrupt one as fast malachor v (it many years for the rakatan to get affected by it) so I don't think Mace would be affected by the "dark taint" of the star forge. Then there is Blax's idea of a dark side Mace which would be pretty interesting to see.



See the above but it doesn't really matter since from I gather we both agree that Mace wouldn't be corrupted in a way that hurts his skills. Though 200 years of darkside presence/taint doesn't compare to planets such as korriban,malachor, vjun,etc.




I put there names in because we know that gameplay isn't canon, but none the less we can use some common sense and logic. Jolee and Juhani were able to get into the "temple of the ancients" even though they were originally not allowed too enter. I highly doubt that while the fate of the galaxy lies on the star forge that they or any members of the ebon hawk are going to just kick back and relax. Plus I also mentioned how the other jedi didn't seem to be affected in a negative(such as being corrupted by the SF) way by facing dark jedi. So moving on.

Now we start discussing the duel itself.

Mace is by far a better saber duelist than Malak has faced off against overall more powerful foes(in the force and saber wise) than Malak. Mace has a unique saber style that Malak has never heard of, his shatterpoint skill may come into play. Now for Mace to win he needs to force a lightsaber duel to occur and he must land a fatal blow that is instant or follow up with another fatal blow so that Malak has no chance of draining the jedi. Malak would win a straight up for duel but he would have to watch for Mace's force crush which might surprise him since most jedi don't use dark side techniques.

All out Mace would most certainly win anywhere else for sure, here though he has make sure he follows up on his attacks and doesn't leave an opening for Malak to rejuvenate himself that said I still go with Mace but it would be much closer due to the star forge and the captive jedi and Malak would give Mace a hard challenge on the star forge.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I'm pretty sure I said that any darksider would get a "power boost" from a "dark artifact or place" not that it would necessarily affect a lightsider directly (power wise) but the main point that I was trying to make before is that there is no evidence that the darkside would corrupt a lightsider,let alone in one as powerful as Mace in a short amount of time like I mistook your post nor is there proof that the star forge can corrupt one as fast malachor v (it many years for the rakatan to get affected by it) so I don't think Mace would be affected by the "dark taint" of the star forge. Then there is Blax's idea of a dark side Mace which would be pretty interesting to see.



See the above but it doesn't really matter since from I gather we both agree that Mace wouldn't be corrupted in a way that hurts his skills. Though 200 years of darkside presence/taint doesn't compare to planets such as korriban,malachor, vjun,etc.




I put there names in because we know that gameplay isn't canon, but none the less we can use some common sense and logic. Jolee and Juhani were able to get into the "temple of the ancients" even though they were originally not allowed too enter. I highly doubt that while the fate of the galaxy lies on the star forge that they or any members of the ebon hawk are going to just kick back and relax. Plus I also mentioned how the other jedi didn't seem to be affected in a negative(such as being corrupted by the SF) way by facing dark jedi. So moving on.

Now we start discussing the duel itself.

Mace is by far a better saber duelist than Malak has faced off against overall more powerful foes(in the force and saber wise) than Malak. Mace has a unique saber style that Malak has never heard of, his shatterpoint skill may come into play. Now for Mace to win he needs to force a lightsaber duel to occur and he must land a fatal blow that is instant or follow up with another fatal blow so that Malak has no chance of draining the jedi. Malak would win a straight up for duel but he would have to watch for Mace's force crush which might surprise him since most jedi don't use dark side techniques.

All out Mace would most certainly win anywhere else for sure, here though he has make sure he follows up on his attacks and doesn't leave an opening for Malak to rejuvenate himself that said I still go with Mace but it would be much closer due to the star forge and the captive jedi and Malak would give Mace a hard challenge on the star forge.

I do not agree with everything but well said, I can agree that Mace would really need to make no mistakes here in order to come out victorious.

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by Kotor3
I do not agree with everything but well said, I can agree that Mace would really need to make no mistakes here in order to come out victorious.
That is the first thing we agree on big grin though for the record I see that happening more often that not. confused

S_W_LeGenD
Malak once clearly said that a Star Forge empowered Revan would be unstoppable.

S_W_LeGenD
Please disregard my above comment. It was mean't for the other thread of similar nature but is about Revan.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Man of Christ
again his "force power" and thier potential vary with gameplay, if i went through kotor and beat malak using force drain and force breach then to me, malak is a weak force user, so his powers are too unknown but we certainly know he is below siddious who many sources hold as the top sith.
Dude! Revan was stronger than Malak, so his force powers should make an impact on Malak. But just because Revan's force attacks affect Malak, it does not means that Malak is weak. And Malak's power wasn't two unknown. Force choking two Jedi simultaneously is not a joke and he knows most of those impressive Sith powers that we see in the movies.

Use common sense.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
secondly mace has vaapad which revan doesnt know about.
This is indeed an advantage but Revan is still smarter and a better strategist than Mace. Plus he knows Malak much better.

Mace will have to act very carefully in this case and will have to take care of Malak's energy supply because with that, Malak will mount a massive pressure on him through his powerful force attacks and it is not clear that all known Sith force powers can be countered through Vaapad, since not all force powers are of the same nature as Force Lightning and Malak knows more than Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
third does the star forge give malak a 10% boost a 20% boost? who knows,
Read Malak's profile in the Dark Side Source Book to get a basic idea.

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Force choking two Jedi simultaneously is not a joke and he knows most of those impressive Sith powers that we see in the movies.
The only impressive sith powers we see in the movies is lightning and the force choke, that is not exactly a lot. And choking 2 jedi isn't exactly impressive since Exar Kun's spirit choked out about 6 times that at once in the JA series.


Revan has zero bearings on this and if Revan actually remembers Malak style then that could easily give him an advantage because it could be possible that Revan changed his style since the betrayal and that could confuse Malak.


Malak's "energy supply" wouldn't help him as I already said if Mace lands an instantly fatal lightsaber blow.


There is something called a force shield which Mace could throw up too.

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