Americas day in the sun is past

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Doom and Gloom
I'd say this sums it up pretty accurately

Blax_Hydralisk
Conspiracy Forum. And no, America can never lose.

As long as we fight for our FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDOMMMM!!!!!

Symmetric Chaos
Dated: March 1, 2005


Just sayin'

Blax_Hydralisk
haermm

inimalist
he does a very poor job of explaining how a recession will cause the collapse America as the leading world power.

Also, much of this anti-bush rhetoic is very politically ahistoric.

Doom and Gloom
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Conspiracy Forum.

Who shot JFK is a conspiracy theory. Whether we walked on the moon is a conspiracy theory. Bush was behind 09/11 is a conspiracy theory, etc, etc.

An educated opinion by a credible person about Americas future is not a conspiracy.

inimalist
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Dated: March 1, 2005


Just sayin'

lol, god damn, I read the whole stupid thing and missed that

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
Who shot JFK is a conspiracy theory. Whether we walked on the moon is a conspiracy theory. Bush was behind 09/11 is a conspiracy theory, etc, etc.

An educated opinion by a credible person about Americas future is not a conspiracy.

That's what the lizard men want you to think.

inimalist
Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
An educated opinion by a credible person about Americas future is not a conspiracy.

and where would I find that?

Blax_Hydralisk
Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
Who shot JFK is a conspiracy theory. Whether we walked on the moon is a conspiracy theory. Bush was behind 09/11 is a conspiracy theory, etc, etc.

An educated opinion by a credible person about Americas future is not a conspiracy.

It is if your name's Doom and Gloom. 131

Doom and Gloom
Originally posted by inimalist
he does a very poor job of explaining how a recession will cause the collapse America as the leading world power.

Also, much of this anti-bush rhetoic is very politically ahistoric.

He is accurately pointing out that debt, compounded by Iraq and Afghanistan, is at the core of our problems. I happen to agree, we have so much National, corporate, and personal debt in this country that we can never pay it off. It puts us at such a disadvantage on the world stage in so many ways that one could write volums of books on it.

Doom and Gloom
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Dated: March 1, 2005


Just sayin'

Doesn't mean it still doesn't apply.

inimalist
Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
He is accurately pointing out that debt, compounded by Iraq and Afghanistan, is at the core of our problems. I happen to agree, we have so much National, corporate, and personal debt in this country that we can never pay it off. It puts us at such a disadvantage on the world stage in so many ways that one could write volums of books on it.

of course debt is bad

to insinuate that it is the reason for american collapse, or even the idea that America is going to collapse is ridiculous

and on should remember that the american economy is still 3 times larger than the number 2 japanese. While it is likely that the level of unrestricted prosperity and growth has hit a limit and strutural reforming is necessary, it is to ignore history entirely to think that economic turmoil is going to destroy america. Increase authoritarianism, sure, collapse the western market economy, please.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
Doesn't mean it still doesn't apply.

Let me break it down.

2005: "America is going to collapse under it's own incompetence and the inevitable march of history!"

2008: "America is still here! But we're doomed!"

2011: "America is utterly doomed . . . in three years or so."

2014: "We're in the middle of the Obama Dynasty's magitech golden age but America is still doomed!"


See, people have been predicting the end of the world or the end of world superpowers for a long time. While it's reasonable to read what comes out year by year and see how current factors are affecting that, taking something from three years ago and claiming it still has validity is pointless because of the sheer number of factors that change in that time.

Doom and Gloom
Originally posted by inimalist
of course debt is bad

to insinuate that it is the reason for american collapse, or even the idea that America is going to collapse is ridiculous

and on should remember that the american economy is still 3 times larger than the number 2 japanese. While it is likely that the level of unrestricted prosperity and growth has hit a limit and strutural reforming is necessary, it is to ignore history entirely to think that economic turmoil is going to destroy america. Increase authoritarianism, sure, collapse the western market economy, please.

I don't think the country will completely collapse and the article doesn't say that. It is almost certain however that America won't be the preeminant world economic and probably military power in the future. It is also probable that the younger generation (under 30) will not enjoy the same standard of living the previous 2 or 3 generations did.

inimalist
thats not to say the american economy is in better shape than it was 3 years ago of course wink

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by inimalist
thats not to say the american economy is in better shape than it was 3 years ago of course wink

Which isn't to say that it won't bounce back at some point.

inimalist
Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
I don't think the country will completely collapse and the article doesn't say that.

fair enough, although I don't think that is reading too much into it

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
It is almost certain however that America won't be the preeminant world economic and probably military power in the future.

this would be the case no matter what america did. Yes, they are hurrying the ordeal, but China is going to rise essentially independent of what America wants. Same with India.

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
It is also probable that the younger generation (under 30) will not enjoy the same standard of living the previous 2 or 3 generations did.

and it will still be 10 times higher than any non-western nation, and still much lower than all the other western nations wink

inimalist
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which isn't to say that it won't bounce back at some point.

lol, totally

it will be a different world, but the current financial crisis is just a problem with the same old practices. The market will demand reform.

Of course, the little guy gets screwed no matter what, but the American economy is different than the average financial problems of a citizen

Grand_Moff_Gav
What rubbish, the Roman Empire should have collapsed hundreds of times- but it lasted for centuries!

America bounced back from the Wall Street Crash...they will continue to last.

Robtard
Yeah, but the Chinese are buying up American debt like crazy.

Silly little Chinese thinks America will actually pay them for it.

Robtard
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
What rubbish, the Roman Empire should have collapsed hundreds of times- but it lasted for centuries!

America bounced back from the Wall Street Crash...they will continue to last.

Of note, Rome never actually collapsed though in the sense of one big crash. It was slowly torn apart by foreign influences, inner fighting, corruption and a lack of sticking to traditional Roman modus. It did take centuries though.

chithappens
The "Americas" day in the sun was passed long ago because all the Native Americans were basically killed in genocide, or did I read the title wrong? laughing out loud

Robtard
Originally posted by chithappens
The "Americas" day in the sun was passed long ago because all the Native Americans were basically killed in genocide, or did I read the title wrong? laughing out loud

No they weren't, they're still around, I've been to their shitty casinos.

Doom and Gloom
Originally posted by Robtard
No they weren't, they're still around, I've been to their shitty casinos.

Which they are calling "return of the buffalo".

chithappens
Originally posted by Robtard
No they weren't, they're still around, I've been to their shitty casinos.

The killing is a hyperbole but they only about for right at 2 % of the population of the U.S. currently.

And at the casino resorts they tell you that you can see "real indians" (the ones that decided not to sell part of the land) if you look outside the window to your left.

In contrast, black people have hip hop music which supposedly depicts the real life hardships of "the struggle."

I don't think either qualifies as having their day in the sun.

Robtard
It was a jab at your "all were killed" exxageration, as I know if any single group in America has been ****ed over the most, it's the native Americans.

Robtard
Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
Which they are calling "return of the buffalo".

Buffalo meat is much healthier than cattle and Buffalo put on more weight for an equal sized consumption of grazing, so you have that "eco-friendly" angle going for you.

If I were a crafty American Indian, I'd use my land not for casinos or novelty shops, I'd raise herds and herds of Buffalo for consumption.

chithappens
I figured as much, but just took it a step further.

The "Americans" tab does bug me a bit though. I'm not Native American but it does go back to that way we are taught that "settlers" (from Europe) were being inconvenienced by the Native Americans.

The Native Americans have to be considered the "settlers" because they were there millenniums beforehand, at least that's what they tell us...

It's incredibly ethnocentric but such is the "American" way.

chillmeistergen
Originally posted by Robtard
Buffalo meat is much healthier than cattle and Buffalo put on more weight for an equal sized consumption of grazing, so you have that "eco-friendly" angle going for you.

If I were a crafty American Indian, I'd use my land not for casinos or novelty shops, I'd raise herds and herds of Buffalo for consumption.

I'd probably build a casino.

Bicnarok
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Conspiracy Forum. And no, America can never lose.

As long as we fight for our FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDOMMMM!!!!!

haha you think your free? eek!

Robtard
Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I'd probably build a casino.

You have no soul.

Robtard
Originally posted by chithappens
I figured as much, but just took it a step further.

The "Americans" tab does bug me a bit though. I'm not Native American but it does go back to that way we are taught that "settlers" (from Europe) were being inconvenienced by the Native Americans.

The Native Americans have to be considered the "settlers" because they were there millenniums beforehand, at least that's what they tell us...

It's incredibly ethnocentric but such is the "American" way.

Screwing over the less capable isn't just an "American way". It's human nature.

chithappens
Originally posted by Robtard
Screwing over the less capable isn't just an "American way". It's human nature.

I disagree but that's cool.

Historical precedent does support you but we tend to only get the view of the conqueror. There are examples of people coexisting in a peaceful manner as much as possible without allowing themselves to be taken advantage of, but again it is shown as a rare occurrence because we only have the view of the conqueror.

Julie
It's easier to abuse power than use it responsibility.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Julie
It's easier to abuse power than use it responsibility.

More to the point, abuse of power results in large short term gains which is the only thing most people want.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
More to the point, abuse of power results in large short term gains which is the only thing most people want.


That's some heavy Yoda shit, right there.

Blax_Hydralisk
Originally posted by Bicnarok
haha you think your free? eek!

Well... I can steal something without having to worry about getting my hand chopped off. ermm

I'm free enough.

Mandos
America will fall, as any great empires did in the past. The only question in when? How many times will they avoid further complications? Only time will tell, and when it will happen, I'll say ''Told you so''

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mandos
America will fall, as any great empires did in the past. The only question in when? How many times will they avoid further complications? Only time will tell, and when it will happen, I'll say ''Told you so''

Typical Frenchman. stick out tongue laughing

Robtard
Originally posted by chithappens
I disagree but that's cool.

Historical precedent does support you but we tend to only get the view of the conqueror. There are examples of people coexisting in a peaceful manner as much as possible without allowing themselves to be taken advantage of, but again it is shown as a rare occurrence because we only have the view of the conqueror.

Actually it does, if you look at it objectively, there's also examples of people of a same continent or land area screwing over another group of essentially their own time and time again. From the Aztecs to the Zulus.

European domination shouldn't be the only guideline.

chithappens
I meant a select group within different places and times. Also, I purposely did not name a specific culture for that reason.

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
Who shot JFK is a conspiracy theory. Whether we walked on the moon is a conspiracy theory. Bush was behind 09/11 is a conspiracy theory, etc, etc.

An educated opinion by a credible person about Americas future is not a conspiracy.

MOVING TO THE CONSPIRACY FORUM....

Doom and Gloom
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
MOVING TO THE CONSPIRACY FORUM....

I guess legitimate discussion about a country's future is considered a "conspiracy". What a joke.

cococryspies
This really is not a conspiracy.

I agree that the US will eventually fall to another country, eventually. All countries do. But it does seem like we've taken a turn for the worse.

Rome fell because its government was full of power hungry idiots, 90% of its population was on welfare, and its borders were spread too widely to be ruled by one government.

That took a good 1200 years. The US just passed 200 and already has a government full of idiots and a hobby of waging wars on foreign nations. We just gotta pray the housing crisis doesn't eradicate the middle class.

Quiero Mota
My prediction of how the US will fall:

The places that have the strongest identities will grow tired of the govt's crap and gain independence: Hawaii, Alaska, The South, and it will all cause a domino effect and the other regions will follow suit.

lord xyz
Prediction: Obama will do something to destroy our rights in 2014. If McCain wins the election, he'll do it in 2009.

jaden101
the US wont fall militarily...it already has begun to fall economically....ironically through it's own doing by it's companies outsourcing its labour to cheaper countries (ie China and India as well as the so called tiger economies)

Katsu
China and Japan already own most of the USA debts. China already is the richest bank, they own 4 trillion in FOREX reserves.

China will become the new superpower, within 20 years.

jaden101
the problem is for the most part for foreign exchange reserves are held in US dollars...which wont be worth much if the economic climate continues as it is...the 26% of it that is in Euros with probably be slightly safer from an exchange POV...if China and Japan decide to offload their reserves from Dollars into something more stable the US economy will collapse because the dollar value will be decimated

Katsu
If you control more than 60% of all dollars, you control its value.

jaden101
economics are a little bit more complex than that...because if that were the case the dollar would be stable....and it's not

Grand_Moff_Gav
The Roman Empire lasted through its far share of crises.

Katsu
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
The Roman Empire lasted through its far share of crises.

And eventually went down under.

What goes up must come down, no one can escape this Universal Law.

America is bankrupt and only still doing business because of the Japanese Carry Trade.

America is BANKRUPT, once again, BANKRUPT! Without the Japanese Carry Trade, the US dollar would have been Zimbabwe curreny by now!

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