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Due to the nature of the plant Malachor V I believe this will go in Revan's favor.

or it may strengthen the power of mace vaapad

Originally posted by Icy Ninja
or it may strengthen the power of mace vaapad

I forgot who stated this and I could be wrong but I thought that vaapad does not draw strength from dark energies. Even if it did would Mace be able to control himself with all the dark energy present on Malachor V?

That's the point of Vapaad. It channels both the users own dark side energy, and his enemies, into energy to better himself in combat.

Quote,

"Vaapad was also described as "a superconducting loop," with the user on one end and the opponent on the other. It was able to take the powers of the opponent and reflect it back at them. In his fight with Palpatine, Mace Windu used the Chancellor's own speed and hatred against him, reflecting it back against the Sith Lord and using it as his own power. Also, when Palpatine unleashed his Force lightning on Windu, the Jedi was able to use his lightsaber, with the power of Vaapad, to reflect the lightning back at him."

translation: darkside pwnage.

Mace would obviously win a saber duel, a strict force duel goes to Darth Revan and an all out I'm giving to Mace because of his lightsaber skill superiority(Vapaad as well as shatterpoint) and just the overall lack of knowledge of Darth Revan combat capabilities. Though If they were to fight multiple times Revan can win some but overall Mace takes thie majority, so yeah Windu wins.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
translation: darkside pwnage.
QFT

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Mace would obviously win a saber duel, a strict force duel goes to Darth Revan and an all out I'm giving to Mace because of his lightsaber skill superiority(Vapaad as well as shatterpoint) and just the overall lack of knowledge of Darth Revan combat capabilities. Though If they were to fight multiple times Revan can win some but overall Mace takes thie majority, so yeah Windu wins.


QFT

I highly doubt Mace can utilize Vaapad against the dark side energy of Malachor V, which turned so many jedi over to the dark side and bound them to Revan. He will most likely win a saber duel but a force duel and overall battle are both out of his range.

How many of these Jedi were of Mace's caliber. @_@

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
How many of these Jedi were of Mace's caliber. @_@

It's not about that, it's the fact that it seems his Vaapad is useful against offensive dark side powers. Malachor V presents an enormous miasma of dark side energy like Korriban, so I don't know what Mace's vaapad is going to be able to do.

Considering Mace almost fell to the DS from the jungle on Harrun Kal, which Malachor puts to shame in terms of Dark Side nexus's, I'm sure he'd be SOL on Malachor combating Darth Revan who is a complete powerhouse with the force.

The DS only from the summertime war, which Mace participated in, allowing it to interface with his personality at a much greater rate than a merely dark side place. I remember a statement about how the choices that a Jedi made being the problem, rather than the jungle causing the corruption.

Well Mace is from Harrun Kal, so I'm sure he'd know how to deal with the pressures of the dark side.

Yeah thats why he nearly slaughters an entire squad of Balawi in fit of rage and methodically thinks out how he'll murder each and everyone of them. Thats why he nearly falls to the darkness multiple times during the novel.

Mace if from Harrun Kal sure, but he only went there sparingly and by the end of the novel he absolutely hates the place

revan is too fluid a character to use, we dont know his skill in saber b/c it varies with gameplay, he could be a great grenader and a mediocre swordsman, so i say mace takes all 3

I understand that, but the fact that he nearly committed these acts, rather than going through with them, and remaining true to the Jedi code, is what separates him from the average Jedi. And if the jungles put Malachor V to shame in terms of the presence of the DS, and he didn't fall there, then why would Malachor V pose a bigger threat? If nothing else, he'd be able to handle it easier.

No, no, no Malachor puts the JUNGLES to shame, this is a place that is so tainted with the dark side its ridicules, Revan himself was nearly consumed by the dark power of Malachor when he stepped foot on the planet, Kreia was broken by the planet, and Revan simply summoned up dark side energy from the planet and managed to corrupt countless Jedi to his will. Moreover the sheer amount of death that has taken place on or near Malachor combined with the planet being drenched in dark power makes it one of the most tainted places in the SW galaxy. Mace will fall.

wow so i guess mace's training under yoda and thier access to the jedi archives to know about the past means nothing huh?

also please prove that mace WILL fall.

In kotor 2 a lightside exile had jedi friends who fight on malachor, but do they fall? no

plus in the description of vaapad it is stated that while mace has no power over the darkness, the darkness has no power over him.

furthermore: revan was connected with all those fallen jedi through the force which would make the taint greater on him, mace was not connected with these jedi so can you prove the same will happen to him?

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
No, no, no Malachor puts the JUNGLES to shame, this is a place that is so tainted with the dark side its ridicules, Revan himself was nearly consumed by the dark power of Malachor when he stepped foot on the planet, Kreia was broken by the planet, and Revan simply summoned up dark side energy from the planet and managed to corrupt countless Jedi to his will. Moreover the sheer amount of death that has taken place on or near Malachor combined with the planet being drenched in dark power makes it one of the most tainted places in the SW galaxy. Mace will fall. Oh, I'm sorry, i misread what you wrote. I missed the "which" in there.

Ah yeah and that saved from nearly falling to the dark side in a place that would be like a walk in the park as compared to Malachor, oh wait...it didn't. Ya its perfectly normal Jedi like behavior to have inclinations to methodically hunt down and murder others.



I was being dramatic, he will however fall to Revan.



Actually apparently all of them save for Mira and the droids stayed on the ship. And were given no dialog about each of there internal struggles, only Mira who either can or cannot murder Hanharr. The Exile is a special case.

]

Yeah while he's in his Vaapad trance he has enough control to skirt the dark side and not fall, but to assume that he's suddenly immune to falling to the dark side because of a saber form is rather retarded.



Sure Mace's willpower may allow him to survive Malachors taint, but does that mean he'll beat Revan on a planet thats utterly drenched in dark side energy for him to feed on? Hells no. That would be like Mace going to Korriban to try and fight the Emperor, complete suicide, Revan would beat Mace with the force on a normal day, adding a damn planet of dark side energy to that is only sever overkill.

IN order for your argument to have any wieght you must quantify the dark side taint on the planet in a concrete manner. remeber revan was already battle hardened by time he go to malachor, quantify how powerful the taint is and how much of a boost the planet gives to sith

It should be pretty apparent for those who aren't dumb, any small nexus of dark side energy gives any dark side practitioner a boost in power, I don't thinks its any stretch by far to imagine that a single man channeling a nexus the size of a planet would utterly dominate nearly any Jedi he faced.

As I've already stated Revan was off planet and summoned up its raw power to drive countless Jedi into a killing frenzy at once then broke them to his will, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the power concentrated on the planet is tremendous.

The fact that Revan was as you said "battle hardened" when he was nearly consumed by Malachor only helps my argument, as someone who is as strong as Revan in the force (undoubtedly stronger then Mace in the force) was nearly felled by the planet speaks bounds for its power.

As for your shit on the Jedi being connected to him ah: prove it. Its speculated that Revan used force bonding in mass but even if it was true that doesn't take away from Malachors power in breaking Jedi.

!) stop curising, it is uncivilized

2) like revan, the ecile is stated to be able to form bonds through the force, play the kotot games and you will learn

3) again you have no PROOF of HOW MUCH malachor boosts the practicioner do they get a 15% boost? a 60% boost, you have offeced no concrete evidence

4) special case or not the exile is below mace in ability but did he get corrupt on malachor? NO

so again unless you can quantify you are just throwing words

Originally posted by Man of Christ
!) stop curising, it is uncivilized

2) like revan, the ecile is stated to be able to form bonds through the force, play the kotot games and you will learn

3) again you have no PROOF of HOW MUCH malachor boosts the practicioner do they get a 15% boost? a 60% boost, you have offeced no concrete evidence

4) special case or not the exile is below mace in ability but did he get corrupt on malachor? NO

so again unless you can quantify you are just throwing words

No percentage is needed. The fact is Mace will not received any help besides his saber style which we can't say for sure how much that will benefit him here.

Even if Mace is able to resist for how long? This will not be a quick battle.

Originally posted by Kotor3
No percentage is needed. The fact is Mace will not received any help besides his saber style which we can't say for sure how much that will benefit him here.

Even if Mace is able to resist for how long? This will not be a quick battle.

a percentage is needed because for all is known, revan could be only1/4 as strong as siddious with the MC5 only raising him to 1/2 as strong as siddious. so it DOES need to be quantified

I will leave Revan out for now because nothing about him seems to be accepted as canon except for the fact that he existed.

Instead of making a whole new thread I will switch Revan for one of his students who we do have info on. Bane at his peak.

Something of note if Mace was to fall to the dark side would that make him stronger or weaker?

given his aggressive saber style IF he went DS he would probably go the way of pre-suit vader but much better because he has had more years to hone his saber style then anakin had

Maybe if you were smarter I'd be more civilized, but: your not, so there goes that. And you normally start list with a 1, not an exclamation mark.




I'm being lectured about KOTOR and you can't even spell the acronym or Exile right...theres a spellcheck on this forum for a reason dipshit.

No, nublet Revan is SPECULATED to have formed bonds through the force, with the only concrete evidence being Mical, HK and the masters saying he studied the bonding ability, which is no surprise considering KOTOR 1 tells us Revan was a prodigy and studied everything and Kreia speculating force manipulation. In other words who gives a shit, it has no relevance on the topic at hand as this from the chronicles prove:

"Revan is able to draw upon the dark side energies of the planet below and use it during the battle, destroying the Mandalore and ending the Mandalorian threat. Simultaneously, more and more Jedi, unable to ignore the power emanating from the planet below, become corrupted by its influence."

Not Revan's bonding, the planet, and not even the actual planet it was Revan summoning up dark side energy.



I don't need proof idiot. Its a simple logical deduction to assume that um: A PLANET of dark side energy would would empower and already overpowered darksider to even higher levels. I'm sorry your to stupid to do this on your own and need imaginary statistics to do it for you, but thats your problem not mine. Bane was able to use the fear from three people to give him enough dark power to stave off a fatal poison, use your pathetic little head and assume that he had a PLANET to feed off of.



A. It's she moron

B. She is a special case, as I said, not to mention its unspecified as to just how powerful she is at that point in the game, and while she is probably below Mace in saber ability, I find it to be no stretch for her to be above him in the force.

C. Mace isn't the Exile, Mace NEVER went through anything as close to what the Exile did, Mace NEVER felt the deaths of hundreds of Jedi and thousands of troops all slaughtered at once, Mace has NEVER lived without the force, Mace couldn't bring himself to kill Dooku on Geonosis cause they used to be "friends", what makes you think his willpower is anything near a woman who voluntarily cut herself off from the force? As I've said the jungles of Harrun Kal nearly broke him, your seriously expecting me to believe that this man is going to survive an encounter with Darth Revan on a plant size dark side nexus, get real ass clown.

Without the cursing Dr. Styles made some very good points that I have not seen an argument for. I mention Bane to make this easier for you Man of Christ but Dr. Styles brought a good point with Bane.

Man of Christ if all you are going to do is say everything is speculative then you are definitely wrong and you lose by default if you have no argument for Mace.

Lets get to the important part. Malachor's boost is purely speculative. because you cannot concretely prove how much of a boost is offered dr styles you would rather rant and bash which holds no logical soundness.

you have no way of proving how strong the exile or revan are, they are too unknown and so is the dark energy boost

Please knock off the insults, Dr. Styles. There is no need for them here.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles

No, nublet Revan is SPECULATED to have formed bonds through the force, with the only concrete evidence being Mical, HK and the masters saying he studied the bonding ability, which is no surprise considering KOTOR 1 tells us Revan was a prodigy and studied everything and Kreia speculating force manipulation. In other words who gives a shit, it has no relevance on the topic at hand as this from the chronicles prove:
Actually Kreia states something to the form of Revan being a master of force bonding, so it's not merely speculation.

Isn't Kreia a fallble third party character who's been proven to have a hard on for Revan?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
a percentage is needed because for all is known, revan could be only1/4 as strong as siddious with the MC5 only raising him to 1/2 as strong as siddious. so it DOES need to be quantified

Was there ever any percentage given as to how much the SF boosted Malak? If not, I guess it didn't really happen, did it?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Was there ever any percentage given as to how much the SF boosted Malak? If not, I guess it didn't really happen, did it? you miss my point

my point was there is no way to know how much of a boost is given and to that matter, how much more powerful it makes the sith. there are too many unknowns to yield a definite answer in favor of the sith

If its the dark power of a PLANET, it would certainly be considerable, or else it wouldn't be worth mentioning.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
If its the dark power of a PLANET, it would certainly be considerable, or else it wouldn't be worth mentioning.

it could be a planet full of weaklings which added together dont account for much so still no way to quantify

OK, then if that's what you believe, then prove it. You keep telling us to substantiate and quantify our claims, but you're not doing anything. Are you familiar with Malachor V at all? If not, look it up and then tell us if you still think its weak.

i beat kotor 2 at least 5 or 6 times, and have read about malachor and the gravity well and the shadow generator etc.


burden of proof is on you to prove that he is boosted enough to beat mace since you made the claim. YOu must quantify. all you can say is "he gets stronger" how much stronger?

5% 10% 30% who knows?

did you not read my post. The planet in no way stated that it puts a force user on a siddious level which is what a sith HAS to be in order to be a threat to mace.

my point of reference for mace's abilities is that he beat siddious.
even nick gillard said that mace was a level 9 swordsman who is up there with yoda and siddious.

nobody knows what the heck levels revan or malak were because it VARIES FROM GAMEPLAY. again, revan could just be a good grenador and a mediocre swordsman.

ok so its stated that malachor boosts a darksider. how? a physical strength boost? a morale boost? a white blood cell boost?

the story says revan is powerful. big deal.
terms like {powerful, immense, unstopable, magnificent} are all relative.
asajj ventress was powerful, was he on her level?
padawan anakin was poweful, is he on his level?

we dont know enough about him.

also, with malachor/starforge whatever.......

if as a sith im of asajj quality, does it's boost raise me to dooku quality or if im a bane does it raise me to a kun or a siddious.

we dont know. what we also dont know is if the dark side boost deals in powers of persuasion, battle meditation, what?

the boost is too unknown to quantify.

but we have seen mace beat the emporor on the big screen so we know at least in terms of swords that he is above the sith as of ROTS.

I think I'm going to change my opinion on this duel and give it Revan due to the circumstance of this particular duel.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
did you not read my post. The planet in no way stated that it puts a force user on a siddious level which is what a sith HAS to be in order to be a threat to mace.

my point of reference for mace's abilities is that he beat siddious.
even nick gillard said that mace was a level 9 swordsman who is up there with yoda and siddious.

nobody knows what the heck levels revan or malak were because it VARIES FROM GAMEPLAY. again, revan could just be a good grenador and a mediocre swordsman.

ok so its stated that malachor boosts a darksider. how? a physical strength boost? a morale boost? a white blood cell boost?

the story says revan is powerful. big deal.
terms like {powerful, immense, unstopable, magnificent} are all relative.
asajj ventress was powerful, was he on her level?
padawan anakin was poweful, is he on his level?

we dont know enough about him.

also, with malachor/starforge whatever.......

if as a sith im of asajj quality, does it's boost raise me to dooku quality or if im a bane does it raise me to a kun or a siddious.

we dont know. what we also dont know is if the dark side boost deals in powers of persuasion, battle meditation, what?

the boost is too unknown to quantify.

but we have seen mace beat the emporor on the big screen so we know at least in terms of swords that he is above the sith as of ROTS.

Man of Christ what are you talking about? First thing stop addressing what it does to a dark user and start addressing what it does to a light user. Anakin was powerful in force potential but never reach what he could have been and never got to a certain level as a jedi.

Stop trying to pick little things or words and make them into something. I could easily turn your comments against Mace. Revan reach a certain level, Sith Lord. Mace reached a certain level, second to Yoda amongst all the Jedi of PT era. You can compare the two. Stop bring in other people who never reached a certain level.

Mace defeated Sidious in a saber battle that is it. We do not know what would have happen if Anakin never appeared and Mace actually tried to kill Sidious .

This fight will not just include sabers but force. Revan definitely has the advantage there.

why? because of what you see him do in the video game?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
why? because of what you see him do in the video game?

I am with the wife so my response won't be quick.

Simply put because as the story of Revan states he is full of knowlege of dark side techniques and light side. Thus Revan would not be shock at light side techniques thrown his way and would have the plant of dark energies to disturb Mace enough to get the win.

Also please remember Revan is an intelligent fighter and a strategist. He would not rush Mace like a fool but would use the plant, the dark energies and his surroundings to his advantage.

sabers goes to mace no matter what
force goes to Revan no matter where they are
all out hard to say... Revan 6 out of 10 but only because of malachor

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Isn't Kreia a fallble third party character who's been proven to have a hard on for Revan?
She trained Revan as well so she do know a thing or two about his skills.

I seem to remember that on Djun, or whatever, a place powerful in the darkside, Obi-wan felt really bad, like he was moving underwater or something.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I am with the wife so my response won't be quick.

Simply put because as the story of Revan states he is full of knowledge of dark side techniques and light side. Thus Revan would not be shock at light side techniques thrown his way and would have the plant of dark energies to disturb Mace enough to get the win.


Revan did not retrieve all of his memories of the past. Bastilla says "your memories of your former self are too badly damaged to ever recover your personality fully" (that's close, if not verbatim). What proof other than gameplay (taking force choke at lv. 12 etc.) do you have that Revan didn't reject the dark side fully even after the leviathan? What makes you think that he continued to know all of his DS powers?

Originally posted by Jbill311
What makes you think that he continued to know all of his DS powers?

Because this is "Darth Revan", not the base current one.

Thank you- i promise to learn how to read some day.