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Technology, Faith, and Suffering

IMHO Billy Graham has done more harm then good in his life.

He should be slapped with a wet noodle till he cries like a baby

Originally posted by Da Pittman
He should be slapped with a wet noodle till he cries like a baby

You didn't read any of it, did you?

...will probably burn in Hell.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You didn't read any of it, did you? Stop looking over my shoulder

Billy Graham...is he really a Reverend?

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Stop looking over my shoulder


...are you going to eat that?

I haven't clicked on the link yet...got to get my speakers back from my rommate...yet..hmmm, Billy Graham........

We used to watch him everytime on tv when I was growing up. Hmmm...must have blocked much of it out. Some was pretty good, but..........when it came to damnation, guess I was tuned out at the time.........

Felt worthless after listening to him.

To me, this is not a good place to be.

All I know is he will ask you for $ till you are gone and about a year after that too...lol

Is ushome still just posting videos as threads? Can't give a summary and/or your own take on it there? Or provide discussion starters? Guess not.

Really, we should just give ushome his own thread for any video he wants to post. It would save room.

TED's a great organization, btw. I'm surprised Graham was invited to speak with them. I might watch it. But not today.

Ah, and it seems from their summary on the website that Graham's only way to end suffering is to accept Christ. Hate to break it to him, but there's more than one pathway to happiness. An all-Christian world would undoubtedly be more peaceful than it currently is. But so would an all-Buddhist world. Or an all-Muslim world. Or an all-Humanist world. Or {insert philosophical or religious belief} world. He's right to see technology as a chief ingredient in improving the world's state, though. At least progress isn't the work of the devil...at least not yet.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Is ushome still just posting videos as threads? Can't give a summary and/or your own take on it there? Or provide discussion starters? Guess not...

I guess sense he did not tell us what he thinks, then we can assume he hates Billy Graham. What do you think?

I logged onto the KMC and noticed -- on my thread -- that 2 people have declared that they do not agree with Billy Graham's sermon/speech. Hey, no problem. Still, if they viewed the entire video presentation, I wonder: Why do they disagree? Certainly, in my view, all Billy Graham stated was the truth. Man ponders about God, and man is well aware of his (or her) sinful nature. In light of this, at the end of the day, despite technology, life (as it is) does not bring ultimate happiness or joy. They do not have a relationship with their Creator, and they have not understood their nature. Instead, they run from it (to embrace more pleasant truths). I think, that is a powerful statement, and I also think -- for those who disagree -- need to present their view. No need to get into a tug-of-war match. I am simply curious. Talk to me.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Man ponders about God, and man is well aware of his (or her) sinful nature.

There are plenty of people that do neither of those.

Okay, bro.... Explain.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Okay, bro.... Explain.

Atheists, Ignostics, Antitheists -- god is not real/ irrelevant/ a delusion
Non-Christians -- don't necessarily agree with you about what is sin

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Atheists, Ignostics, Antitheists -- god is not real/ irrelevant/ a delusion
Non-Christians -- don't necessarily agree with you about what is sin



Sin is a transgression against the will of a god. If the Christian god is not real, then the Christian definition of sin is not real.

Sin, by the definition of many religious belief systems, aside from Christianity, are defined as violations of God's will -- rules, in other words -- ensuring the best conditions of (or for) life. If everyone on the face of the planet treated each other as "themselves," life would be dramatically different then today!

Nonetheless, I do not think such reasoning is necessary. Put aside written documents for the moment, and bear with me.

God's will is written -- witnessed -- unto our conscience. We, as conscience beings, know that murder is wrong. Such is not taught; it is instinctive. And so, I really doubt, that even some of you readers claim to reject the notion of sin, such is false -- let's say murder in this case.

Visit any country, state/providence, or county/village, murder someone's father (or whatever), I guarantee that will not be greeted with positive results based on one's political system, culture (or whatever). It is an extreme example, but you understand my point. Mankind is on the same so-called "scales of justice."

Aside from the obvious, you simply cannot deny the pain and suffering in your life. Such is the result of sin. And, at the core of it all, you blaspheme God (or your counter-parts). You do not merely calculate sin... you "experience" it! Where does the conviction to feel wronged come from (or the joy in forgiving)?! If I said to you, "Who cares about the sociopath that killed your mother (or whom ever)! Study another culture to end your pain and suffering," that would not be an expectable recourse. Bottom line, you would want "justice served," by God or man!

We, as human beings, are not robots, merely calculating stimulus to survive. No... we actually "experience" life. I promise, your lab-top computer will never understand your problems. However elementary you may view my discourse, I think you understand my point. You are more than a machine; and you are more than chemical reactions. And the kicker is, you know this, ha ha! What an amazing feat -- to be conscience and "aware" of one's self!!

I really do not understand -- at the core, anyway -- the usage of the terms "atheist, ignostic, and/or antitheist." What really are you attempting to convey? Help me understand.

In my opinion...being a born again Christian is a sin...

Okay... great... but "why?!"

Originally posted by ushomefree
Okay... great... but "why?!"

Well, if it entails belief in the heresy that is "Sola Scriptura" then it is a rejection of the work and purpose of the Holy Sprit, a rejection of the teachings of Jesus Christ and of his divinely established Church.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Well, if it entails belief in the heresy that is "Sola Scriptura" then it is a rejection of the work and purpose of the Holy Spirit, a rejection of the teachings of Jesus Christ and of his divinely established Church.

It isn't any thing like that. You would have to believe there was a Holy Sprite in the first place.

Let me give you an example: If you believed in Voodoo and a person had put a curse on you, you would feel the effects of the curse. But if you do not believe in Voodoo, then if that same person cursed you, you would not be effected.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It isn't any thing like that. You would have to believe there was a Holy Sprite in the first place.

Let me give you an example: If you believed in Voodoo and a person had put a curse on you, you would feel the effects of the curse. But if you do not believe in Voodoo, then if that same person cursed you, you would not be effected.

Yes....and that has what to do with Born Again Christians?

What Billy said made some sense.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Yes....and that has what to do with Born Again Christians?

Your beliefs, make up your personal reality.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your beliefs, make up your personal reality.

He is right, I am right, you are right. Everyone is right in their own reality.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your beliefs, make up your personal reality.

That's completely beside the point . . .

"Sola Scriptura" is scripture alone and to me knowledge you have to be Jewish and except Jesus to fall into that category.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Sin, by the definition of many religious belief systems, aside from Christianity, are defined as violations of God's will -- rules, in other words -- ensuring the best conditions of (or for) life. If everyone on the face of the planet treated each other as "themselves," life would be dramatically different then today!

Religion would be completely defunct for starters . . .

Originally posted by ushomefree
God's will is written -- witnessed -- unto our conscience. We, as conscience beings, know that murder is wrong. Such is not taught; it is instinctive.

And yet children without a glimmer of sin or evil in them will torture ants and crush butterflies. Murder being wrong is very learned. It simply pervades our culture to such an extent that no one has to come out and tell you "murder is wrong". It's like Superman, I don't remember ever learning who Superman was (and that seems like the sort of thing you'd remember) because no one ever took the time to explain it, he's just so much an aspect of our culture.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Aside from the obvious, you simply cannot deny the pain and suffering in your life. Such is the result of sin.

I'll upend your entire argument with: "No, it's not."

Originally posted by ushomefree
You are more than a machine; and you are more than chemical reactions. And the kicker is, you know this, ha ha!

"Thou shall not suffer a witch to live."

Unless you have another way of probing the thoughts of others.

Originally posted by ushomefree
I really do not understand -- at the core, anyway -- the usage of the terms "atheist, ignostic, and/or antitheist." What really are you attempting to convey? Help me understand.

What are, retarded?

Atheists don't believe in the existence of god, God, goddess, Goddess, god, Gods, goddesses or Goddesses.

Ignostics tend to believe that the existence of god should only concern god because even if he/she/it/they exists god isn't doing anything relevant in or day to day lives.

Antitheists believe that religion is inherently a negative thing and oppose it in any form.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's completely beside the point . . .

Only if taken out of context; like you just did.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Only if taken out of context; like you just did.

G: "Being a born again Christian is a sin."

J: "Why?"

G: "Being a born again Christian rejects the divine teachings of Christ."

S: "Voodoo only works on people that believe in it."

G: "So what?"

S: "Our beliefs shape our personal reality."

SC: "Are you high?"

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
G: "Being a born again Christian is a sin."

J: "Why?"

G: "Being a born again Christian rejects the divine teachings of Christ."

S: "Voodoo only works on people that believe in it."

G: "So what?"

S: "Our beliefs shape our personal reality."

SC: "Are you high?"

How is being a born again Christian a sin? ...and he didn't say "So what?".

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How is being a born again Christian a sin?

Dunno. GMG thinks it's a sin because it rejects Jesus' teachings.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
...and he didn't say "So what?".

Paraphrasing

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Dunno. GMG thinks it's a sin because it rejects Jesus' teachings.



Paraphrasing

However, I didn't interpret the start in the same way as you did. I may have ignored it because it didn't make sense to me; to come from the person it did.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, I didn't interpret the start in the same way as you did. I may have ignored it because it didn't make sense to me; to come from the person it did.

"In my opinion...being a born again Christian is a sin..."

What on earth is ambiguous about that?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"In my opinion...being a born again Christian is a sin..."

What on earth is ambiguous about that?

I didn't say ambiguous. I must have ignored it because it didn't make sense for that person to say that.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
In my opinion...being a born again Christian is a sin... Why? Cause it goes against scripture....add ons?

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Why? Cause it goes against scripture....add ons?

Adds Ons?

Case in point, all Christianity is an Add On.

SO lets not start rejecting the Add Ons...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
G: "Being a born again Christian is a sin."

J: "Why?"

G: "Being a born again Christian rejects the divine teachings of Christ."

S: "Voodoo only works on people that believe in it."

G: "So what?"

S: "Our beliefs shape our personal reality."

SC: "Are you high?"

Haha, I love you!

He seems like a cool guy.

Feels good man.

Well then it's not scripture alone.

... and all I could think when reading this thread was : When did JIA get a new username?

KMC Members-

We all have biases, and I am no different. But, however, some topics can only be stretched so far. The hyperlink, to the video I posted is one example. It is my humble opinion, that everyone -- EVERYONE! -- on the entire forum can and/or could relate. Why?! Because we are human; we are -- for the Agnostics and others -- "products" of truth, not "the end all be all." Follow the hyperlink, and all persons will have mutual "understanding" of the video. Why?! Again, we are human, and we are part of -- if I dare state -- God's purpose. We instinctively know this; but other such views have distorted our concept of truth -- being created by God.

That is my opinion, and it is based on the Bible! Research and study has allowed me to except these truths, no matter how unpleasant! Emotion is not the answer. That is my view, folks. Their is no need to be controversial and/or silly! Simply give the presentation by Billy Graham a fait watch!! Period!!!

And, obviously, you are free to make your own opinion. All I have seen, on this thread, so far, are "peripheral" comments, that have almost nothing to do with the core message of Billy Graham.

Why can't we consider, for a moment, that your consciences confirms that we -- including myself -- have sinned against God?! And, only pure, long-lasting happiness (in life), is only possible, by excepting the fact that we are sinners, who have served our on purpose (despite God); and to serve God in repentance and fear, not to mention love?!

Many assume God does not love you; but that is totally not true. Hence, Jesus the Christ. What do you guys think??!

Originally posted by ushomefree
KMC Members-

We all have biases, and I am no different. But, however, some topics can only be stretched so far. The hyperlink, to the video I posted is one example. It is my humble opinion, that everyone -- EVERYONE! -- on the entire forum can and/or could relate. Why?! Because we are human; we are -- for the Agnostics and others -- "products" of truth, not "the end all be all." Follow the hyperlink, and all persons will have mutual "understanding" of the video. Why?! Again, we are human, and we are part of -- if I dare state -- God's purpose. We instinctively know this; but other such views have distorted our concept of truth -- being created by God.

That is my opinion, and it is based on the Bible! Research and study has allowed me to except these truths, no matter how unpleasant! Emotion is not the answer. That is my view, folks. Their is no need to be controversial and/or silly! Simply give the presentation by Billy Graham a fait watch!! Period!!!

And, obviously, you are free to make your own opinion. All I have seen, on this thread, so far, are "peripheral" comments, that have almost nothing to do with the core message of Billy Graham.

Why can't we consider, for a moment, that your consciences confirms that we -- including myself -- have sinned against God?! And, only pure, long-lasting happiness (in life), is only possible, by excepting the fact that we are sinners, who have served our on purpose (despite God); and to serve God in repentance and fear, not to mention love?!

Many assume God does not love you; but that is totally not true. Hence, Jesus the Christ. What do you guys think??!

I think, people who mistake themselves so close to Heaven that they think the Gates are at the end of their garden path...are going to hell!

Originally posted by ushomefree
KMC Members-

We all have biases, and I am no different. But, however, some topics can only be stretched so far. The hyperlink, to the video I posted is one example. It is my humble opinion, that everyone -- EVERYONE! -- on the entire forum can and/or could relate. Why?! Because we are human; we are -- for the Agnostics and others -- "products" of truth, not "the end all be all." Follow the hyperlink, and all persons will have mutual "understanding" of the video. Why?! Again, we are human, and we are part of -- if I dare state -- God's purpose. We instinctively know this; but other such views have distorted our concept of truth -- being created by God.

There's no good reason to assume that everyone will react the same way to the video. We may all be human but there are still huge differences between people. If you seriously believe in free will for humanity you cannot make the argument we'll all do something simply "because we're human".

Originally posted by ushomefree
Why can't we consider, for a moment, that your consciences confirms that we -- including myself -- have sinned against God?!

I did as a kid. It seemed like a strange concept. As an adult it still does.

Originally posted by ushomefree
And, only pure, long-lasting happiness (in life), is only possible, by excepting the fact that we are sinners, who have served our on purpose (despite God); and to serve God in repentance and fear, not to mention love?!

Faith in God (in fact in various different gods/Gods) has helped people get through certain sicknesses. On the other hand just about everything we can credit as giving us long lasting life and many of the things that give us happiness are quite material.

As for serving with repentance, fear and love . . . that's a modern D/s relationship and certainly isn't for everyone (though it can be absolutely wonderful for the right people).

Originally posted by ushomefree
Many assume God does not love you; but that is totally not true. Hence, Jesus the Christ. What do you guys think??!

I think that's a belief many people find fulfilling but that people have equivalent beliefs.

I am not talking about free-will and either does Billy Graham during his video presentation. The point is, "instinctively" all human beings understand the concept of sin. And we experience sin committed against us (as individuals), not to mention, others. What one choses to do with that experience and knowledge is entirely different. Life is tough, and it brings great pains in some cases. The human condition, in lieu of technology, has not gotten any better! Sure, technology has helped of survive; but not "live" better, happier lives. In fact, it has done the complete opposite. We have learned to live without God; and so, man is not happy. Man, according to the Bible, was created to have a relationship with God. And I think that is true. Only some, however, are willing to admit that (or even consider it) deep within themselves. Instead, they search other more "pleasant truths," and I am guilty of that at times.



Join the club; according to the Bible, man is corrupt. Regardless, living for God, and not yourself, would help put things into greater perspective, especially being indwelled with the Holy Spirt -- being a new creation.



Absolutely! I'm not saying that man hasn't benefited from technology. What I am saying is this: technology does not bring "joy" into one's life, only a relationship with God can. Look... our generation has seen the best of what science and technology has to bring -- so far. Yet, man is just a primitive and just as "unfulfilled" in life as generations past. We feel empty -- something is missing. Technology has done nothing but cured disease(s) and allowed persons to walk after amputations. Technology, is other words, has not improved the "quality" of life, only added survival. And whatever happiness -- not joy -- brings, it is merely temporal.



You are wrong, in my opinion. It is for everyone, but some people just do not care, and that is all there is to it. They do not focus on the matter and/or search within themselves for the truth -- God, the source of joy and meaning in life. Instead, life is all about themselves, end of story.



I can concede this point; but such is temporal. Unless, they are participating (and worshipping) in the truth. Otherwise, they will covert in the long run. Some people, however, will never convert due to social and political implications. But they know themselves; and they know the flaws in their faith.

Originally posted by ushomefree
I am not talking about free-will and either does Billy Graham during his video presentation. The point is, "instinctively" all human beings understand the concept of sin. And we experience sin committed against us (as individuals), not to mention, others. What one choses to do with that experience and knowledge is entirely different. Life is tough, and it brings great pains in some cases. The human condition, in lieu of technology, has not gotten any better! Sure, technology has helped of survive; but not "live" better, happier lives. In fact, it has done the complete opposite. We have learned to live without God; and so, man is not happy. Man, according to the Bible, was created to have a relationship with God. And I think that is true. Only some, however, are willing to admit that (or even consider it) deep within themselves. Instead, they search other more "pleasant truths," and I am guilty of that at times.

You don't actually know any of that. People have different systems of beliefs that are ingrained into them. Certain things cross cultural boundaries but many Biblical laws do not show up in other cultures.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Join the club; according to the Bible, man is corrupt. Regardless, living for God, and not yourself, would help put things into greater perspective, especially being indwelled with the Holy Spirt -- being a new creation.

I disagree. Besides you can pick just about anything and "live for it" to gain a great amount of fulfillment in life. People do just that every day all over the world but spiritual thought (also pretty much everywhere) condemns that form of fulfillment which isn't really that different.

Originally posted by ushomefree
We feel empty -- something is missing.

No, you feel empty and that something is missing without God. That's fine, and the feeling that something is missing is probably almost universal but there are many things that can fill it just as well.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Technology has done nothing but cured disease(s) and allowed persons to walk after amputations. Technology, is other words, has not improved the "quality" of life, only added survival. And whatever happiness -- not joy -- brings, it is merely temporal.

Ask any amputee that regained the ability to walk and they'll tell you that having that power vastly increases quality of life.

Originally posted by ushomefree
You are wrong, in my opinion. It is for everyone, but some people just do not care, and that is all there is to it. They do not focus on the matter and/or search within themselves for the truth -- God, the source of joy and meaning in life. Instead, life is all about themselves, end of story.

Actually there are people that do not live for themselves at all. I know of at least two people in particular that choose to live completely for another person rather than themselves. By all accounts it is quite fulfilling. Others devote themselves to humanity (medical researchers), others to God (you), others to Allah (Muslims), others to history (artists and performers). None is actually more or less fulfilling, though living for one's self alone tends to be self destructive.

Originally posted by ushomefree
I can concede this point; but such is temporal. Unless, they are participating (and worshipping) in the truth. Otherwise, they will covert in the long run. Some people, however, will never convert due to social and political implications. But they know themselves; and they know the flaws in their faith.

But you never know who has the truth until it's too late anyway.

Provide an example.



How?



Like what?



Sure... such provides the ability to survive -- even happiness; but it does not provide joy and fulfillment of life. Even they question God (and their sinful nature). Plastic doesn't change that.



We all have ambitions in life. However, they do not fill the void when it comes to spiritual needs. All man is aware of their Creator. Being Michael Phelps does not dismiss that.



Or you could study, pray and find the truth. Such is not subjective. Most religions are based on culture, heritage and/or emotion. Otherwise, I understand your point.

I'm not the source of all truth; but people know where they stand with God, especially in faith. Ask an atheist about that. They were so-called happy their entire lives; but when push came to shove, they wanted something bigger then themselves -- something to provide comfort. And this "something" supersedes all life accomplishments. How can this be?

Originally posted by ushomefree
...I'm not the source of all truth; but people know where they stand with God, especially in faith. Ask an atheist about that. They were so-called happy their entire lives; but when push came to shove, they wanted something bigger then themselves -- something to provide comfort. And this "something" supersedes all life accomplishments. How can this be?

Simply put, we are all born, and we all had a mother. When we grow up and loose our mother, we long for that comfort that we were born into.