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1.Force
2.Sabers
3.All out

who winz?
IMO tie.........

Kenobi has this- he had training, a master, and he killed Maul. Luke got pwnd by the emperor. the feats don't compare.

Originally posted by Jbill311
and he killed Maul.

Sorry but, even though it's true, that doesn't apply here.

If its b/c he tapped the dark side, so did Luke. If it's b/c he hasn't done it yet, then I retract the feat.

Yes, so did Luke, but does that mean ROTJ Luke is superior to Darth Vader? Because as far as I can see, almost exactly the same happened in TPM and ROTJ, between Kenobi and Maul/Vader and Luke.

Still, he might've killed Maul, but it was only because Maul was overly-confident. In other words, he got lucky.

Kenobi has had more formal training but luke is the grandson of the force

conclusions:

Sabers: Could go either way, if luke gets mad he will overpower kenobi but kenobi has studied ataro a great deal at this point so i say kenobi 6/10

force: luke (force choking two gammoreans simultaneously is pretty impressive, i havent seen padawan obi show me anything indicating he can counter that)

all out: lulke 7/10

I like to throw around the 'Force heritage' a lot too, but I just don't see un-trained Luke Skywalker beating Obi. MAYBE 3/10 times. I am a bit of a luke fanboy, so maybe i'm trying to make up for it.

choking two non-force sensitive, weak-minded pigs is nothing to fighting another force user with YEARS of formal training.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
choking two non-force sensitive, weak-minded pigs is nothing to fighting another force user with YEARS of formal training.

in those years has he shown the ability to resist force choke?

Well, we must assume he can, as Jedi are trained to resist other Force attacks...

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Well, we must assume he can, as Jedi are trained to resist other Force attacks...

oh? then how do we expect padawan kenobi to resist a force choke when master kenobi fell to force choke?

True, Luke had a limited amount of training, but that didn't seem to matter much in his fight with Vader, nor when he tooled Jabba's guards. I don't know if he can beat Kenobi, but even before using the dark side in ROTJ, Vader wasn't certain whether or not he could defeat Luke (stated in the ROTJ novel). Of course, this is saber duel only. So I think Luke probably takes Kenobi in a saber duel. When not using the dark side, remember, Maul was kicking Kenobi around while fending off Qui-Gon.

All-out goes to Luke as well seeing as we've never seen Kenobi using any offensive Force powers while dueling. The Force duel I'm not sure about.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
oh? then how do we expect padawan kenobi to resist a force choke when master kenobi fell to force choke? Well let's see. On one hand you have Count "Get Me a Martini, Btich" Dooku, who is one on the most powerful Jedi in the Order's 25000 year history, and an even greater Lord of the Sith. And he was also taken by surprise in the middle of a saber duel.

And on the other, you have Luke "My Tampon's Stuck" Skywalker who has barely 2 years training, only which about 1/4 of was with Yoda on Dagobah. Wow, he choked 2 pigs, big deal. When do you think the last time anyone from Tat ever saw a Jedi was, let alone encounter one that tried to choke you with the force?

If you know how to use the force, you should certainly be able to block certain attacks too.

DS19:

Vader didn't want to hurt Luke at all, so that point is moot. ANd just because we haven't seen OB1 use that many offensive force attacks doesn't mean that he can't, and certainly doesn't mean that Luke wins by default.

As far as Maul kicking OB1 around, that wasn't the case when it was 1v1. OB1 was definitely holding his own and got in more hits (be it physical or saber) than Luke did on Vader. Plus, aren't you the one that always said Maul would pwn Vader in a saber fight? So that dampens your argument too.

Force choke can be broken by a force push or anything to break the users concentration(I believe that is how Mace got out of Kar's force grip/choke). Forceshield or something similar to that shoud resist being choked in the first place.

is padawan kenobi shown capable of this?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
is padawan kenobi shown capable of this?

Force push is a a standard technique as for forceshield or any other type of resistant I'm not sure, he was never shown to know it in my knowledge but that said I think it is pretty logical for the jedi to teach their padawans ways to get out of a force choke from an opponent .

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
DS19:

Vader didn't want to hurt Luke at all, so that point is moot. ANd just because we haven't seen OB1 use that many offensive force attacks doesn't mean that he can't, and certainly doesn't mean that Luke wins by default.

As far as Maul kicking OB1 around, that wasn't the case when it was 1v1. OB1 was definitely holding his own and got in more hits (be it physical or saber) than Luke did on Vader. Plus, aren't you the one that always said Maul would pwn Vader in a saber fight? So that dampens your argument too.
Vader didn't want to kill Luke, though I see no proof that he wasn't willing to hurt Luke. He threw his saber at Luke and in ESB showed he was willing to hurt Luke when he cut off his hand and sent a barrage of heavy objects at Luke. And at any rate, Vader was trying to defend himself, and failed to, both when getting his arm cut off and when getting knocked down the stairs. Pretty impressive if you ask me.

As for Luke and Kenobi in a saber fight, I said I was undecided on that one, though Luke was able to hide from Vader which is pretty impressive. Luke not having much training doesn't matter, in DE Luke still had less training than TPM Kenobi yet I am pretty sure we would all agree that by DE Luke is ahead of any version of Kenobi.

1 vs. 1 Kenobi vs. Maul, Kenobi was using the dark side, which I am assuming he won't do against Luke. If we are going to use dark side Kenobi, then we might as well use dark side Luke, too, the one who sliced off Vader's arm. And Kenobi only got 1 hit on Maul during the actual duel and it didn't do much, Luke's hit on Vader ended the fight.

And yeah, Maul > Vader in saber combat, but not pwns him. But Maul tossed non-dark side Kenobi around like he was nothing, while fending off Jinn, and he wasn't even at full strength.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Vader didn't want to kill Luke, though I see no proof that he wasn't willing to hurt Luke. He threw his saber at Luke and in ESB showed he was willing to hurt Luke when he cut off his hand and sent a barrage of heavy objects at Luke. And at any rate, Vader was trying to defend himself, and failed to, both when getting his arm cut off and when getting knocked down the stairs. Pretty impressive if you ask me.
He threw the saber at the landing to make it fall, not Luke. And in ESB he was toying with Luke until Luke tagged him and pissed him off. Then it was over in mere seconds.

Originally posted by darthsith19
As for Luke and Kenobi in a saber fight, I said I was undecided on that one, though Luke was able to hide from Vader which is pretty impressive. Luke not having much training doesn't matter, in DE Luke still had less training than TPM Kenobi yet I am pretty sure we would all agree that by DE Luke is ahead of any version of Kenobi. Hiding in a near pitch black room while wearing all black has what to do with a saber fight? It certainly does matter at this stage. Anakin had very little training as an 11 year old, but since he's a Skywalker, does that mean he's automatically better? Not exactly the same scenario, but i think (hope) you see my point.

Originally posted by darthsith19
1 vs. 1 Kenobi vs. Maul, Kenobi was using the dark side, which I am assuming he won't do against Luke. If we are going to use dark side Kenobi, then we might as well use dark side Luke, too, the one who sliced off Vader's arm. And Kenobi only got 1 hit on Maul during the actual duel and it didn't do much, Luke's hit on Vader ended the fight. Why would you assume that? He cut his saber in half and floored him. And do you not remember how the Maul fight ended? With Kenobi's hit ending it?

Originally posted by darthsith19
And yeah, Maul > Vader in saber combat, but not pwns him. But Maul tossed non-dark side Kenobi around like he was nothing, while fending off Jinn, and he wasn't even at full strength. I still disagree with this. Being faster doesn't mean you're better. By this logic, TPM OB1 using the darkside could beat Vader. I don't think so.

"If you will not be turned, then you will be destroyed." Had luke moves a half a second slower, he would have been injured, that lightsaber was going to his him. And the second part, I never said ESB Lule and Vader were close, I know he was toying with Luke, that's blatantly obvious. My point was that he wasn't afraid to hurt Luke.


It has to do with the Force. To say that Anakin progressed as fast as Luke is stupid, unless you indeed think that 11 year old Anakin = ROTJ Luke. My point is in Luke's case you can't say he loses due to lack of training alone because he has had a lack of training his entire life and has still been far better than he should have been, as per my DE example. In NJO he still has far less training than any of the PT Jedi masters yet he could still pwn any of them with no trouble at all. And his lack of experience didn't seem to matter while fighting Jabba's guards of Darth Vader in ROTJ. You can't say he loses to to lack of training alone.




Yes Maul fell on the floor but did you see the movie? Maul gets up and second later, just the same as before, it does not help Kenobi. And see my point again, I said during the actual duel. The end part where Kenobi kills Maul didn't actually happen during the duel, he didn't defeat Maul while they were actually dueling.


Did TPM Kenobi, using the dark side, defeat Maul? No, he ended up hanging out of a pit, only AFTER the duel did he kill an overconfident Maul with a surprise attack. Have you seen the canon novel where Maul and Vader fight. Maul is beating him in the saber duel.

This is riddled with so many inaccuracies, I can't believe it.

Originally posted by darthsith19
"If you will not be turned, then you will be destroyed." Yea, the Emperor said that. Vader says, "If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny." Apparently his destiny was to fall down that landing. And no, even if he didn't flinch, the lightsaber would have still hit the support strut that it hit, that was on the left side while spinning clockwise. The beam would have still been there. And it did the job. It got Luke back down to his level. Besides, did you miss the entire dialogue from between the two on the At-AT? Vader obviously didn't want to hurt Luke. He was putting on a show for his master who could kill him with lightning at any moment.


Originally posted by darthsith19
Had luke moves a half a second slower, he would have been injured, that lightsaber was going to his him. And the second part, I never said ESB Lule and Vader were close, I know he was toying with Luke, that's blatantly obvious. My point was that he wasn't afraid to hurt Luke. He also got really pissed off for a minute and instinct took over rather than controlled actions. That's my point.


Originally posted by darthsith19
It has to do with the Force. To say that Anakin progressed as fast as Luke is stupid, unless you indeed think that 11 year old Anakin = ROTJ Luke. My point is in Luke's case you can't say he loses due to lack of training alone because he has had a lack of training his entire life and has still been far better than he should have been, as per my DE example. In NJO he still has far less training than any of the PT Jedi masters yet he could still pwn any of them with no trouble at all. And his lack of experience didn't seem to matter while fighting Jabba's guards of Darth Vader in ROTJ. You can't say he loses to to lack of training alone. Luke's mind was older and capable of understanding more at a faster rate. For example, look how much Anakin progressed from 6 months before RoTS to RoTS. And I never said that lack of training alone would cause him to lose. I said having formal lightsaber training with Temple Battle Masters and your awesome Master is a big advantage for OB1. That's obvious.




Originally posted by darthsith19
Yes Maul fell on the floor but did you see the movie? Maul gets up and second later, just the same as before, it does not help Kenobi. And see my point again, I said during the actual duel. The end part where Kenobi kills Maul didn't actually happen during the duel, he didn't defeat Maul while they were actually dueling. Maul was knocked on his ass, and got back up quickly, as he had to since he was in a fight. Vader was knocked down and got right back up at his leisure cause there was no immediate danger. And a fight isn't over until one is either dead or one flees. So since Maul's dumbass would rather play around instead of ending the duel, OB1 ended it but cutting his ass is two.


Originally posted by darthsith19
Did TPM Kenobi, using the dark side, defeat Maul? No, he ended up hanging out of a pit, only AFTER the duel did he kill an overconfident Maul with a surprise attack. Have you seen the canon novel where Maul and Vader fight. Maul is beating him in the saber duel. How is it after the duel? Just because he was disarmed? No sir. Maul was still swiping at OB1, thus making the fight continue.

But did he win? Dooku was beating Ani and OB1, but did he win? And no, what "canon" novel was it?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
And no, what "canon" novel was it?

It was the resurrection comic http://www.swtimeline.ru/?view=969&size=M&page=002

This is tough. I'd have to say Obi wan due to the fact that he started training from a younger age.

And its part of the canonical Star Wars time line that Maul came back and fought Darth Vader? Does anything in here mention his power or skill level?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
And its part of the canonical Star Wars time line that Maul came back and fought Darth Vader? Does anything in here mention his power or skill level?

This Maul is canon, the cyborg one and the one Luke fights in a comic is not canon to my knowledge. And to my knowledge there nothing about his power level,the comic is only 30 or so pages long all the reads are other "star wars:tales"

Here is a brief overview but its been a while since I read it.

Basically the 2 fight and they seem pretty evenly matched but Maul injures Vader as well as being the faster of the two while Vader I believe breaks Maul's saber in two. Maul has Vader beat(he is right behind Vader right now) then says/taunts something like "who do you hate to destroy me?" vader says "myself," then stabs his saber through his body and into Maul as Maul was about to kill Vader. But Maul dies Vader is severely injured, Palpatine suddenly shows up and he unleashes force lightning on the prophets of the darkside who "resurrected" Maul and I believe he turns their bodies to ash. The end.

Fascinating.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
This Maul is canon, the cyborg one and the one Luke fights in a comic is not canon to my knowledge. And to my knowledge there nothing about his power level,the comic is only 30 or so pages long all the reads are other "star wars:tales"

Here is a brief overview but its been a while since I read it.

Basically the 2 fight and they seem pretty evenly matched but Maul injures Vader as well as being the faster of the two while Vader I believe breaks Maul's saber in two. Maul has Vader beat(he is right behind Vader right now) then says/taunts something like "who do you hate to destroy me?" vader says "myself," then stabs his saber through his body and into Maul as Maul was about to kill Vader.


Maybe I read it wrong (Checked, pretty sure I didn't), but Maul didn't ask what he hated that much until after he got stabbed. From what I could see, Vader waited until Maul went in for the kill then grabbed the lightsaber Maul essentially just fell on top of it. Because you see he lunges forward just as Vader grabs the saber and stabs himself. So.. Maul essentially lunged onto it.

That's a sick comic though.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Maybe I read it wrong (Checked, pretty sure I didn't), but Maul didn't ask what he hated that much until after he got stabbed. From what I could see, Vader waited until Maul went in for the kill then grabbed the lightsaber Maul essentially just fell on top of it. Because you see he lunges forward just as Vader grabs the saber and stabs himself. So.. Maul essentially lunged onto it.

That's a sick comic though.

IDk I haven't read it in a while. It was something along like that, but what vader did was bad@$$.

luke wins all 3 of them easily

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Yes, so did Luke, but does that mean ROTJ Luke is superior to Darth Vader? Because as far as I can see, almost exactly the same happened in TPM and ROTJ, between Kenobi and Maul/Vader and Luke.

Still, he might've killed Maul, but it was only because Maul was overly-confident. In other words, he got lucky. Well said