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cm is described as having the strenght of hercules, diana through out her history is described as being as strong or stronger than herc, in comparison cm appears to be equal in strenght to superman while diana seems to be far beneath supes in strenght and when they fight, this is an annoying paradox thats been bothering many for years, please some feedback to this will be most welcomed.

different interpretations of hercules

and WW's closer to supes than you think probably
hyperbole involved there too

One of Superman's weakness is magic, which is exactly what Marvel is. imo Wonder Woman is closer to Superman in strength simply because she is the female equivalent of him and has strength feats to back her up. In addition, she Superman's sidekick.

That's what you get when it comes to debating fictional characters based on fictional characters that are based on mythological characters.

There will be a lot of ...slippage.

Suffice it to say that Superman is the strongest of them all (his strength levels can apparently expand to fit the situation), while the strength of CM and WW are below his.

However, for all intents and purposes the respective strengths are not discernible. It is a bit like trying to match the speed of the Flash vs Superman vs Black Adam.

There is a clear hierachy, but for all intents and purposes there is no difference (unless you are trying to beat instantaneous travel, in which case the Flash would win). For most observers they would all seem to be the same speed.

Same thing in strength when you look at Kal, Diana and Billy's alter ego. There is a hierachy (with Kal being tops), but there is no real discernible difference unless a very high level of feat is called for.

The best way of looking at it is the feat in whch Superman, WonderWoman and the Martian Manhunter pulled the Earth .....obviously all 3 were probably not pulling the same load, but what it showed is that all 3 were extremely powerful. Even though the weight dispersal may not have been 33.3% for each, even a dispersal of (my own figures) of 50%, 30% and 20% would still have the person pulling 20% being VERY powerful all the same.

Thus, all one can say for sure is that Superman is stronger than CM and WW, particularly when he stops holding back and decides to give it his all.

Apart from that the rest is just a waste of time.

1 cm
2 ww
3 herc

Originally posted by lawest9
cm is described as having the strenght of hercules, diana through out her history is described as being as strong or stronger than herc, in comparison cm appears to be equal in strenght to superman while diana seems to be far beneath supes in strenght and when they fight, this is an annoying paradox thats been bothering many for years, please some feedback to this will be most welcomed.

CM gets his strength from a more powerful Hercules and he can mix powers like hercules and atlas plus boost them from the power of Zeus. Supes is clearly stronger than WW and equal to Billy because he's never proven to be stronger or done anything that Billy tried and couldn't do. In a Fight Billy has the advantage on Supes due to magic but lifting they are equal. As for Herc I don't know much about DC's Herc but he appears to be strong enough to trade blows with WW,CM, and Supes.

Originally posted by D-Block
CM gets his strength from a more powerful Hercules and he can mix powers like hercules and atlas plus boost them from the power of Zeus. Supes is clearly stronger than WW and equal to Billy because he's never proven to be stronger or done anything that Billy tried and couldn't do. In a Fight Billy has the advantage on Supes due to magic but lifting they are equal. As for Herc I don't know much about DC's Herc but he appears to be strong enough to trade blows with WW,CM, and Supes.

Not necessarily true.

There are a good number of strength feats that Superman has done over the years which Billy has never come close to doing.

I know what you are trying to say, but if I really wanted to split hairs I could easily start putting feat after feat that you wouldn't be able to match.

CM takes power from a different Herc as it was stated in Trials of Shazam.
Of course all of DC's Hercs could be aspects of the same deity...
Anyway.
CM appears to be equal to Supes but I think this is due to magic also.
On the other hand WW always appears to be weaker than Supes (like the instance where he broke her wrists) but very strong none the less.
Now I'm certain that WW is more skilled than DC Herc but I would say that DC Herc is stronger than her.
In the recent Wonder Girl mini DC Herc having been reduced to HALF STRENGTH by Zeus and without wearing the golden fence of Olympian was being held by WW.When he snapped out of some mind control he effortlessly threw her away.No skill.No speed.Just strength.
Plus in JSA #13 Hercules who still had HALF of his strength easily made Supes bleed and punched him through a building and that was after he already had been in a fight.

So I would say that CM and Herc are maybe equal and WW just a notch below.

1. Superman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Captain Marvel

In my opinion, at least.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
1. Superman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Captain Marvel

In my opinion, at least.

I'd list Cap and WW more less as equals.

I guess. I dunno, I've always seen Diana as stronger than CM, right behind Kal.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Not necessarily true.

There are a good number of strength feats that Superman has done over the years which Billy has never come close to doing.

I know what you are trying to say, but if I really wanted to split hairs I could easily start putting feat after feat that you wouldn't be able to match.

I understand that but I'm saying that It's not like Billy tried to lift something that Supes did and couldn't get it up. I know Supes has more feats than Billy. But I understand what you are saying.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I guess. I dunno, I've always seen Diana as stronger than CM, right behind Kal.

Billy actually stalemated Supes in strength. He always looks to be Supes equal and WW always seems to be below Supes.

Originally posted by spetznaz
I know what you are trying to say, but if I really wanted to split hairs I could easily start putting feat after feat that you wouldn't be able to match.

I can't think of a more brainless method of analysis.

And you've gotta love the standard hypocrisy where Superman's magic weakness is concerned.

Put Superman up against Thor and every Superman fan will line up with a dozen scans to prove that the magic weakness isn't a factor.

Wait a day, then bring up Captain Marvel stalemating Superman and wait for those same fans to immediately cite his magic weakness as a convenient excuse.

Originally posted by Grinning Goku
I'd list Cap and WW more less as equals.

Agree Cap and WW are very very close to supes id say either cap is stronger or mabey they are equal. As far as duribility goes id definetly say cap and as far as speed goes id say they bout the same.

Originally posted by KK the Great
And you've gotta love the standard hypocrisy where Superman's magic weakness is concerned.

Put Superman up against Thor and every Superman fan will line up with a dozen scans to prove that the magic weakness isn't a factor.

Wait a day, then bring up Captain Marvel stalemating Superman and wait for those same fans to immediately cite his magic weakness as a convenient excuse.
Well CM is also nearly as Fast as Superman and More Durable Than Thor. So That is where CM and Thor greatly differ.

Personally, I feel that Wonder Woman is superior to Captain Marvel in just about every category. And no, that's not putting CM down. I'm just stating what I feel to be the truth, based on feats.

1. Supes
2. WW
3. CM

Hercules is around the bottom somewhere.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Well CM is also nearly as Fast as Superman and More Durable Than Thor. So That is where CM and Thor greatly differ.

What does that have to do with the base hypocrisy in the treatment of Superman's magic weakness as either a non-factor or an easy excuse for poor showings depending on what suits a Superman fan's purpose at a given moment?

Originally posted by KK the Great
What does that have to do with the base hypocrisy in the treatment of Superman's magic weakness as either a non-factor or an easy excuse for poor showings depending on what suits a Superman fan's purpose at a given moment?
Becuz CM can actually trade blows with superman at superspeed. And take many of superman's speed based puches due to durability. Thor may have magic, but he CANNOT. That is what it has to do with it.

There was a similar discussion over at the DC boards a while back. Current WW writer Gail Simone weighed in with her opinion. Unfortunately the original thread was closed (it got pretty nasty), but her quote was,

"I'd say, if Superman is a ten, WW and Cap are a nine, J'onn is an eight. In strength alone.

But if you go to combat skill, then Diana is the ten, Superman an eight, Cap a seven, J'onn a six.

Adding the other powers changes things as well. But in combat skill, Diana is the top of the pyramid in the DCU, no question.

That's just my opinion."

This isn't proof of anything and writers have their own bias of course. Nonetheless, I thought it was interesting to hear one writer's opinion.

The conversation was continued in another thread, which is where I gleaned the quote. Feel free to PM me for the link.

I still think that DC Herc is stronger than WW going by their latest appearances where a HALF STRENGTH Herc made Supes bleed and punched him thru a building and easily threw WW when he snapped out of mind control.

Hmmm I would rate Superman and Captain Marvel as equals or nearly close in Strength.........I would place Wonder Woman below both in Strength........in my opinion Captain Marvel and Superman are nearly equals and are above Diana..........in straight up fight Superman/Captain Marvel would crush Diana (Her durability compared to their own is a major factor).......but she can seriously hinder Superman with her magic tools.....

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
Hmmm I would rate Superman and Captain Marvel as equals or nearly close in Strength.........I would place Wonder Woman below both in Strength........in my opinion Captain Marvel and Superman are nearly equals and are above Diana..........in straight up fight Superman/Captain Marvel would crush Diana (Her durability compared to their own is a major factor).......but she can seriously hinder Superman with her magic tools.....
This just isn't true. Wonder Woman's Durability to Blunt force trauma is right up there with thier's. So CM wouldn't be able to do too much to Diana that she can't do back. Diana wouldn't be getting crushed by CM. Even Superman's heat vision to her face didn't put her down. Do you read Wonder Woman?

Originally posted by fangirl101
Becuz CM can actually trade blows with superman at superspeed.

What does that have to do with the base hypocrisy in the treatment of Superman's magic weakness as either a non-factor or an easy excuse for poor showings depending on what suits a Superman fan's purpose at a given moment?

Originally posted by KK the Great
What does that have to do with the base hypocrisy in the treatment of Superman's magic weakness as either a non-factor or an easy excuse for poor showings depending on what suits a Superman fan's purpose at a given moment?
I'm not a fan of Superman. In the Slightest. So dont' ask me questions that you should be asking Superman's fans. I'm giving you logical reasons as to why Magic actually counts with CM but is only a small factor with Thor. Fact is, Thor is slow and doesn't have the dmg resistance of CM. Cm can react fast enough to match Superman. And if Superman does get the jump on CM, CM's resistance is so high, that he can still retaliate at Superspeeds with minimal dmg from Superman.

Originally posted by fangirl101
This just isn't true. Wonder Woman's Durability to Blunt force trauma is right up there with thier's. So CM wouldn't be able to do too much to Diana that she can't do back. Diana wouldn't be getting crushed by CM. Even Superman's heat vision to her face didn't put her down. Do you read Wonder Woman?

Actually I do read a lot of Wonder Woman.......not as much as I would like but I have a good deal of her comics.....

Based from what I have seen Wonder Woman's durability varies a bit but her resistance to Blaunt Force is actually pretty good.........but not up there on Clark's or Billys durability........

She is capable of defeating either but not likely.....she certainly has the tools and capabalities........but if they really let loose I believe that either would crush her.......she fared decently against Superman was controlled by Max but as I saw Superman would defeat her.......not very easily but she would go down.........Captain Marvel would have a tougher time with Wonder Woman but he would defeat her as well.......

I do not know how she withstood Superman's heat vision.......it really burned her but it should not do that little damage........it is off the scale even on Solar charts.........if he really went loose it should do more than that.........far more than that.........but she did say her bones were burning(I have seen it take out an entire army of Doomsday clones instantly)........

Superman or Captain Marvel would defeat Diana........she would put up an amazing fight but she would go down........her bones are breakable and such.......she would go down..........the entire fight in Sacrifice he her twice I believe.........once she blacked out for a few seconds.......the second time around he got ahold of her he crushed her wrist........

Captain Marvel is almost always shown to be the very equal of Superman.......or really damn close......he can do the same amount of damage....

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
Actually I do read a lot of Wonder Woman.......not as much as I would like but I have a good deal of her comics.....

Based from what I have seen Wonder Woman's durability varies a bit but her resistance to Blaunt Force is actually pretty good.........but not up there on Clark's or Billys durability........

She is capable of defeating either but not likely.....she certainly has the tools and capabalities........but if they really let loose I believe that either would defeat her.......she fared pretty well when Superman was controlled by Max but as I saw Superman would defeat her.......not very easily but she would go down.........Captain Marvel would have a tougher time with Wonder Woman but he would defeat her as well.......

I do not know how she withstood Superman's heat vision.......it really burned her but it should not do that little damage........it is off the scale even on Solar charts.........if he really went loose it should do more than that.........far more than that.........but she did say her bones were burning(I have seen it take out an entire army of Doomsday clones instantly)........

Superman or Captain Marvel would defeat Diana........she would put up an amazing fight but she would go down........her bones are breakable and such.......she would go down..........the entir fight in Sacrifice he her twice I believe.........once she blacked out for a few seconds.......the second time around he got ahold of her he crushed her wrist.........Captain Marvel almost every single incarnation is shown to be the very equal of Superman.......or really damn close......he can do the same amount of damage
Dude. Pay attention to the sacrifice arc. Wondy was HOLDING back. And Superman had a Sun amp when he Punched Diana. And he punched her at 8 times the speed of light. Anyone other than the very top of the heap would be dead. not many can lay claim to being punched at 8 times the speed of light and still have thier head. I dont' need to go down the list of Superman class beings that wondy has matched or beaten do I?

Originally posted by fangirl101
I'm not a fan of Superman. In the Slightest. So dont' ask me questions that you should be asking Superman's fans. I'm giving you logical reasons as to why Magic actually counts with CM but is only a small factor with Thor. Fact is, Thor is slow and doesn't have the dmg resistance of CM. Cm can react fast enough to match Superman. And if Superman does get the jump on CM, CM's resistance is so high, that he can still retaliate at Superspeeds with minimal dmg from Superman.

You're arguing around it and factoring it into both fights, which is reasonable enough.

The typical Superman fan will come prepped with several scans to "prove" that Superman is not really weak to magic when it suits their purposes to downplay it.

But they will be the first to cite his magic weakness when they need a convenient excuse to explain away a loss.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Dude. Pay attention to the sacrifice arc. Wondy was HOLDING back. And Superman had a Sun amp when he Punched Diana. And he punched her at 8 times the speed of light. Anyone other than the very top of the heap would be dead. not many can lay claim to being punched at 8 times the speed of light and still have thier head. I dont' need to go down the list of Superman class beings that wondy has matched or beaten do I?

She said I hold back "barely".......which did her no good.......none of her attacks besides her bracelets did any visible harm.......but I believe a kick to the jaw did make his lip bleed but next panel it was gone I believe.......

Superman was toned down I believe........they were moving towards the Sun........beside it he should literally rip Diana limb from limb.......he has ripped Darkseid apart literally when he was letting loose and took on the Omega Beams if I remember correctly........his heat vision was so narrow.......if he really let loose it should be of the charts........even Solar charts........Superman was toned down or he was still holding back.......also since she is vulnerable to energy and electrical attacks........Superman's heat vision should be one of the greatest things in his arsenal against Wonder Woman but for some reason she was written resistant to it........

Superman was really toned down I believe........he should be ripping Diana into two.......he can fight at Speeds of Light........ever see Superman fight Doomsday/Imperiex Probe and such.......he can literally punch Diana thousands of times and attack her from all angles........she is fast but Superman is faster he was not going all out........I would think if Superman was under the impression that Doomsday killed his loved one he would let loose.....it was like that encounter with Batman in my opinion......he was either being toned down to give Diana a chance or he was still holding back.......


http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

She could literally not touch him........he could also vibrate invisible......

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1609/supermanbatman13pg109es.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5647/supermanbatman13pg114cl.jpg

That is what should happen to her if they ever fought near the Sun and Superman was actually trying.......

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg

It cannot be measured on Solar Charts.......his heat vision can do far more than what he did to Diana..........

Anyways my point is he was toned down in that fight.........Diana barely holding back is not worth for much.......I am not saying Wonder Woman is not powerful........she is certainly is but Superman letting loose would crush her.......

Also please give me a list of beings Wonder Woman has taken down as powerful as Superman..........my memory is really terrible lol.......

Also what exactly are we debating here lol.......Wonder Woman's ability to hang with Superman for a while........or her strength and durability compared to Superman?

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
She said I hold back "barely".......which did her no good.......none of her attacks besides her bracelets did any visible harm.......but I believe a kick to the jaw did make his lip bleed but next panel it was gone I believe.......

Superman was toned down I believe........they were moving towards the Sun........beside it he should literally rip Diana limb from limb.......he has ripped Darkseid apart literally when he was letting loose and took on the Omega Beams if I remember correctly........his heat vision was so narrow.......if he really let loose it should be of the charts........even Solar charts........Superman was toned down or he was still holding back.......also since she is vulnerable to energy and electrical attacks........Superman's heat vision should be one of the greatest things in his arsenal against Wonder Woman but for some reason she was written resistant to it........

Superman was really toned down I believe........he should be ripping Diana into two.......he can fight at Speeds of Light........ever see Superman fight Doomsday/Imperiex Probe and such.......he can literally punch Diana thousands of times and attack her from all angles........she is fast but Superman is faster he was not going all out........I would think if Superman was under the impression that Doomsday killed his loved one he would let loose.....it was like that encounter with Batman in my opinion......he was either being toned down to give Diana a chance or he was still holding back.......

She could literally not touch him........he could also vibrate invisible......

That is what should happen to her if they ever fought near the Sun and Superman was actually trying.......

It cannot be measured on Solar Charts.......his heat vision can do far more than what he did to Diana..........

Anyways my point is he was toned down in that fight.........Diana barely holding back is not worth for much.......I am not saying Wonder Woman is not powerful........she is certainly is but Superman letting loose would crush her.......

Also please give me a list of beings Wonder Woman has taken down as powerful as Superman..........my memory is really terrible lol.......

Also what exactly are we debating here lol.......Wonder Woman's ability to hang with Superman for a while........or her strength and durability compared to Superman?

You can say that he was toned down all you want, but he was enraged and trying to kill who he thought was Doomsday. Wonder Woman took his best blows, including point-blank heat vision to the face. It's not like this was the first time either. She's taken dozens of his blows throughout their history together, and usually wasn't too damaged and ready to continue fighting.

No one here is denying just how powerful Superman is. I'll be the first to say that he's ridiculously powerful. But others need to realize that Wonder Woman isn't all that far behind him at all. When they're both fighting to the very best of their ability, they're near even, with Superman obviously being the superior, but not by leaps and bounds. She can hang with him, even if he wants to put her down and she's holding back. And she can hang with him longer when she's actually fighting as well. But yes, Superman will eventually beat her.

Hell, I don't even like DC. But over the past couple years, I've become a big Wonder Woman fan, and realized just how powerful she is in the DC universe. You can call it bias if you want, but I call it knowledge.

He also has the Power of Zeus, don't forget

Originally posted by Metalmanx
You can say that he was toned down all you want, but he was enraged and trying to kill who he thought was Doomsday. Wonder Woman took his best blows, including point-blank heat vision to the face. It's not like this was the first time either. She's taken dozens of his blows throughout their history together, and usually wasn't too damaged and ready to continue fighting.

No one here is denying just how powerful Superman is. I'll be the first to say that he's ridiculously powerful. But others need to realize that Wonder Woman isn't all that far behind him at all. When they're both fighting to the very best of their ability, they're near even, with Superman obviously being the superior, but not by leaps and bounds. She can hang with him, even if he wants to put her down and she's holding back. And she can hang with him longer when she's actually fighting as well. But yes, Superman will eventually beat her.

Hell, I don't even like DC. But over the past couple years, I've become a big Wonder Woman fan, and realized just how powerful she is in the DC universe. You can call it bias if you want, but I call it knowledge.

He was toned down.......his other fights prove it.......overall Superman letting loose would destroy her..........if he actually stops holding back his punch can destroy a small planet instantly.........Wonder Woman is powerful.........I am certainly not saying otherwise........but Superman in that fight was not letting loose........compared to say his fight with an Imperiex Prime.......he was not letting loose..........

Wonder Woman never took his best blows? He hit her once where she blacked out for a few seconds and next time he got ahold of her he crushed her wrist........

She took point blank heat vision.......yes but she also said it burned her bones......if he really let loose his heat vision Wonder Woman would......well it would not be pretty........his heat vision rivals the heat of Stars.......also his heat vision is an energy attack which Wonder Woman is weak against........

Superman is just more powerful...........

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
He was toned down.......his other fights prove it.......overall Superman letting loose would destroy her..........if he actually stops holding back his punch can destroy a small planet instantly.........Wonder Woman is powerful.........I am certainly not saying otherwise........but Superman in that fight was not letting loose........compared to say his fight with an Imperiex Prime.......he was not letting loose..........

Wonder Woman never took his best blows? He hit her once where she blacked out for a few seconds and next time he got ahold of her he crushed her wrist........

She took point blank heat vision.......yes but she also said it burned her bones......if he really let loose his heat vision Wonder Woman would......well it would not be pretty........his heat vision rivals the heat of Stars.......also his heat vision is an energy attack which Wonder Woman is weak against........

Superman is just more powerful...........

That fight was quite... strange. Superman was under mind control, reacting sluggishly, and fighting like a complete moron, and that was supposed to be all out? Or maybe WW just assumed he was going all out because of the punishment she was taking, even though he clearly wasn't.

It certainly didn't match the "going all out" seen in situations like the Imperiex battles. Even the blast of heat vision he gave WW was like a gentle trickle compared to some of the "all out" blasts we've seen him do.

Stupid fight anyway. Punching at 8 times the speed of light? Flying back and forth to the sun? These characters are just ridiculous sometimes. There wouldn't be any villain on earth who could trouble these sorts of characters in a fight.

hmmmm . . . . .

1. Hercules(fully powered)
2. Superman/Captain Marvel/Hercules
3. Wonder Woman

hercules with only half of his strength punched superman into a building and broke his face

Originally posted by Endless Mike
He also has the Power of Zeus, don't forget that zeus was only an aspect of the real zeus...

Diana has, I'll note, matched strength with Captain Marvel on even terms before.

I think Superman is slightly above both of them, it's just their magic even things up.



Yea, they both inflicted some real punishment.




It did damage and burn her to the bone. That is a very high-power blast.

It's not as wide as some of the ones he used against Imperiax, but that doesn't mean it's less powerful. It just means Diana is *tough*.

Nor did he react sluggishly if you ask me, he used Superspeed in combination with other powers and she used good timing and superior combat skills.

And that punch-from-the-sun-to-Earth? That's one of the strongest punches he's thrown, so he definitely was not holding back when it came to brute force.


I think you're looking at it the wrong way. "Diana survived, therefore he can't have been going all-out," vs ""Diana survived, therefore Diana is that tough." You're assuming she'd lose and using that as a base point, rather than looking at her performance against someone stated to be going all-out as the base point. The latter is definitely the written intention.


In that fight, he used his powers together and attacked *much* more aggressively than normal, there's only a few fights that compare, and he didn't show anything against the Imperiax probes that wasn't used against WW. The Elite fight showed more skill, but he planned that one carefully in advance, and he's never shown that level before or since. OWAW? Nah, that wasn't any better than Sacrifice, the difference is Diana is not so easy prey as a probe.
If you want to say Superman was toned down? I'll point out he wasn't toned down any more than Wonder Woman, they were scaled compared to each other as they normally compare.


Something often forgotten in these threads, Diana and Clark have fought *many* time in main continuity, and it's almost always a good fight, mostly draws. No matter how you spin Sacrifice, you can't explain those away.




Ares. Captain Marvel. The White Wizard. Genocide. Superman, amped by magic to be more powerful than normal Superman. Martian Manhunter. Kyle Rayner. Batman w/ kick. Zoom.

Originally posted by Grinning Goku
I'd list Cap and WW more less as equals.


yep but id give WW the in combat sped advantage and cap the duribility advantage.

Originally posted by D-Block
I understand that but I'm saying that It's not like Billy tried to lift something that Supes did and couldn't get it up. I know Supes has more feats than Billy. But I understand what you are saying.


I think supes is still stronger then cap by a small amount but its true. Supes is stronger by feats. BUt then again supes could be said to be stronger then thanos due to his billions of lifting feats. Just becasue someone dont have the feats dont mean he or she is not in the ball park.

Sup>cap in strength barely, unless going all out or sundipped.
Thanos>supes in strength period and he still dont have the lifting feats that supes does.

1. Superman
2. Captain Marvel
3. Wonder Woman

CM's strength is a notch below Superman's, but not to the point where Superman can easily overpower him. His physical attributes alone allow him to hang with Superman, regardless of the source of his powers. Granted, he is embued with magic, but generally speaking, his punches don't inflict "magic damage" on Superman. The Stamina of Atlas and Strength of Hercules puts him on roughly even footing with Superman BEFORE he decides to amp his fists with magical lightning or use the Shazam! ambush attack. It also doesn't hurt Supes that he technically gets stronger every day where as his peers remain at the same level constantly for the most part (a "clever" way for DC to keep Superman as strong as he needs to be )

I've always viewed CM as just a notch below Superman in terms of strength. Again, the difference between the two of them is so small that it doesn't really make a difference when they fight. CM has a ton of other attributes that, in combination with his strength, make him a formidable opponent for Clark.

In terms of strength, I think that WW and CM are just about equal. Billy is more durable than Diana, but she is faster and a lot more skilled. The only real support for saying that CM is stronger than her is using ABC logic, which is always flawed in my opinion. They've fought and stalemated and Clark has stated that their strength is comparable. That's good enough for me. When Superman refers to CM as his equal, I think durability plays a large role in that.

Question for CM fans, what are Billy's best speed feats?

As for a fight between CM and WW, I would give the slight majority to Diana. Unlike Clark, Billy doesn't have any decent combat skill. H2H exchanges would be in Diana's favor, which makes up for her lesser durability. The bracers would take care of most of the projectiles thrown. And now WW has lightning of her own.

And then we have the lasso. I'm awaiting some scans of Billy's speed feats before I delve into this.

And WW is stronger than DC Hercules. That's the way she was written. Hera wouldn't have it any other way!

I've always thought that Supes was portrayed as the strongest, and although he lacks Supe's feats CM was regarded as an equal in strength, with some decent supporting evidence. WW was a little below them but makes up a lot by being a better fighter.

There have been varying opinions from writers. I think it was Grant Morrison during his JLA run that said CM is the only leaguer who can armwrestle Superman.