Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Rots Mace Vs. Darth Nihilus

1.Sabre
2. Force
3. All Out

Location- Bridge of the Ravager

1. Mace
2. Nihilus
3.could go either way. If Nihlius can use his drain right away then he wins but if mace can force a saber duel to happen before Nihilus can use his drain then he wins

Nihilus takes all three, for reasons I've mentioned in another thread. (I'll repost it if anyone needs me to.)

would mace have to seperate himself from the force if so would he be able to use shatterpoint

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nihilus takes all three, for reasons I've mentioned in another thread. (I'll repost it if anyone needs me to.)

Please do or show me the thread

Originally posted by Icy Ninja
Please do or show me the thread

Aye, aye. I posted this in the Caedus vs. Mace thread:

Originally posted by Enyalus
As for the Nihilus thing...erm, follow my logic here and please correct where you see fit - it's been ages since I've played KOTOR 2 (I did recently reread Unseen, Unheard though.)

So, in order for Vaapad to do anything special...superconducting loop and whatnot, you have to be in the Force at the time, because Vaapad utilizes the Force and the dark side. I'd think that if you disconnected yourself from it, it'd just be an offshoot style of Form VII and nothing very special.

If that's granted, that's very important because Mace would most likely need to disconnect from the Force in order to fight Darth Nihilus. Nihilus can sense ALL force users in the galaxy for one. Not to mention that it's widely acknowledged that Mace's strongest department is not in the Force, it's with the blade. Nihilus would thus either end up feeding/severing/draining him, or Force Crush et cetera him easily.

That being said, the only option Mace would have is to disconnect from the Force and engage him in saber combat. We have no conclusive proof from the game, but Wookeepedia's article said Nihilus was an exceptional duelist (just hardly needed to use it). And if you think about it, nearly every single Jedi/Sith powerful in the Force was also a good duelist, so that makes sense.

Without Vaapad's bonuses, Mace would have an unfamiliar style and a fairly fast and athletic attack sequence....against someone who is also a skilled duelist, and has precog abilities. Would Mace even have his shatterpoint ability if he looped out of the Force?

Anyway, that's my reasoning for thinking Mace would go down against Nihilus. I think the only beings who would be able to beat him are NJO Luke, DE Sidious, AOTC Yoda (possibly), or another wound in the force, such as the Jedi Exile.

What do you think? That's my messed up, backwards reasoning, lol.

How exactly would Nihilus win a saber battle when your not allowed to use offensive force powers? So Mace would not need to disconnect from the force (even if he could) because Nihilus can't drain/sever(as you seem to imply above)him from the force in a strict up saber so no Nihilus doesn't beat Mace in saber combat.

Why exactly would mace need to "disconnect" himself from the force in a saber duel?(when the actual technique is masking your force sensitivity, not disconnecting yourself at all and when your sensitivity is masked, you are invisible to nihilus and he can't do jack to touch your force sensitivity or break it with his technique ).

Again wookie claiming nihilus being exceptional in saber dueling means absolute jack seeing that there is nothing to substantiate that.

As far as a saber duel goes, mace >>>> nihilus.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
How exactly would Nihilus win a saber battle when your not allowed to use offensive force powers? So Mace would not need to disconnect from the force (even if he could) because Nihilus can't drain/sever(as you seem to imply above)him from the force in a strict up saber so no Nihilus doesn't beat Mace in saber combat.

Ah, right. Yeah, you're absolutely right. My oversight. Sorry about that. In that case, yes, I'll agree that Mace beats him in sabers.

Force and All-Out, my opinion still stands.

if nilihus didnt force sever visas why would he be able to so readily do it to mace?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Ah, right. Yeah, you're absolutely right. My oversight. Sorry about that. In that case, yes, I'll agree that Mace beats him in sabers.

Force and All-Out, my opinion still stands. And just how is he going to shatter a force bond of a powerful user?

It took 3 jedi masters to attempt to merely disable the exiles force sensitivity yet that took so long, what makes you think that nihilus can destroy mace windus force bond, a powerful force user that quickly?

How is nihilus even going to break his connections if he can't sense mace's sensitivity or presence in the force?(Assuming he masked his force sensitivity).

Nihilus stripped Darth Traya of her power with a wave of his hand - the three Jedi don't even approach him in that regard. Traya herself repeated the feat on those same Jedi as well as a squad of Sith assassins.

While it's worth noting losing the Force doesn't seem to be a massive hindrance later on when the rebuilt Order likely learns to deal with this sort of thing, in the force and all out...Mace's got issues. Fatal ones.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
And just how is he going to shatter a force bond of a powerful user?

With a wave of his hand would be the easiest way, as Faunus pointed out.



Since when was the technique the Jedi masters "attempted" to use on the Exile the same as Nihilus' devastating dark side ability? If I recall, Traya mentions its uniqueness to Nihilus alone; quit tossing invalid evidence around like it means anything.



Oh, please. I'll be equally ridiculous: how is Mace even going to hid his Force sensitivity when he knows exactly squat about about Nihilus?

And he's demonstrated vast telekinetic abilities in any case. Which pretty much carry over to a lot of powers (Force choke, push, etc.). I don't see how Mace has done anything that would elevate him to the level of someone like Nihilus.

I'm not here to argue but just let me try to elaborate on what i claimed earlier because you got the wrong idea of what i was trying to imply.

I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything but just give me a chance to explain..


Originally posted by Advent




Since when was the technique the Jedi masters "attempted" to use on the Exile the same as Nihilus' devastating dark side ability? If I recall, Traya mentions its uniqueness to Nihilus alone; quit tossing invalid evidence around like it means anything.
I never said it was because i used the word "merely disabled"(meaning disable the exile from using the force), not completely breaking her force connection/bond like nihilus does on others.



You yourself(quite a while ago) told me that those 3 masters only blinded the exile to the force(as nomi blinded ulic's connection) and was not the same technique as nihilus did on his victims.

Originally posted by Advent



Oh, please. I'll be equally ridiculous: how is Mace even going to hid his Force sensitivity when he knows exactly squat about about Nihilus?

Just like how you assumed luke is going to do the same thing(in a luke vs nihilus thread a couple of years back) without substantiating on how luke knows nihilus.

I'd like to ask a question, how do you know that nihilus really cut traya's force bond off when she stated(and when you brought it up in a thread i can't find anymore) that all life can't exist without the force and that she still remained alive and still could barely reach out with the force to attempt to grab her saber(it shook when she attempted to).

If her connection was really cut
1) Why isn't she dead
2) If it was a similar techniue to just disable her connection, why could she still reach out with the force to attempt to grab her lightsaber?.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
I'm not here to argue but just let me try to elaborate on what i claimed earlier because you got the wrong idea of what i was trying to imply.

I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything but just give me a chance to explain..

Sure.



Why mention it then? It has absolutely no relevance to the discussion at hand.



Err, yes, I did. I don't see what this has to do with anything; this was my entire point. You made it seem like what the masters did meant that it'd be unlikely for Nihilus to do it to Mace. Whether or not that's what you meant is not the case; it's clearly implied.

Not to mention, you didn't offer any valid proof on the matter that Mace could resist the effects for even a second, so. . . what exactly makes you think Nihilus wouldn't tear through his futile defenses?



LMAO! "A couple of years back"? Quite frankly, updating my stance doesn't mean anything.

I could point out "a couple of years back" you seemed to possess the intelligence of a mentally retarded rancor, but that doesn't mean anything now, does it? As I said, some age-old stances have changed.



WTF? I never said he stripped her of the Force; the event wasn't even so much as referenced.

Although, what I would say is that he tossed her around like a ragdoll. And the fact that she couldn't even muster the strength to get her lightsaber just further proves Nihilus' power if we assume it was a Force push.

Plus, when we've seen Traya instapwn three esteemed Jedi masters, it's impressive that she couldn't withstand this power. And his telekinetic abilities aren't even close to his Force drain in the respect of power.

In any case, what the hell are you talking about? What does this have to do with anything?

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
It took 3 jedi masters to attempt to merely disable the exiles force sensitivity yet that took so long, what makes you think that nihilus can destroy mace windus force bond, a powerful force user that quickly?

It took Darth Traya a raise of her hand to severe all 3 masters from the force.

Originally posted by Advent
In any case, what the hell are you talking about? What does this have to do with anything?

Ah, and I think it should be mentioned as a possibility that Traya meant "stripped of her power" in the sense of being cast out of the Sith triumvirate anyways. She lost her power as a Dark Lady of the Sith. Unless I'm mistaken and she mentions being severed from the Force, which may be likely as I haven't played KOTOR2 in ages.

Originally posted by Advent




Why mention it then? It has absolutely no relevance to the discussion at hand.
Well i tried to use it as an example to substantiate my case but the end result is: i failed hence i will concede.


Originally posted by Advent

Err, yes, I did. I don't see what this has to do with anything; this was my entire point. You made it seem like what the masters did meant that it'd be unlikely for Nihilus to do it to Mace. Whether or not that's what you meant is not the case; it's clearly implied.

Actually i tried implying it this way(not that it matters but i just want you to know what i tried to imply earlier), that because it took 3 masters to temporarily blind the exile's(a slight above average force user ) force connection, its going to be more difficult for nihilus, a single individual to break another high ranking force users force bond.

But anyways i have conceded this point.
Originally posted by Advent

Not to mention, you didn't offer any valid proof on the matter that Mace could resist the effects for even a second, so. . . what exactly makes you think Nihilus wouldn't tear through his futile defenses? Your right, i didn't and mace does not even have the fallanasi technique anyways but it was dumb of me to assume that he did. My bad.


Originally posted by Advent

LMAO! "A couple of years back"? Quite frankly, updating my stance doesn't mean anything. I honestly didn't notice because i don't spend much of my time on KMC these days, i barely even bother to argue the same old thing now and i don't browse through every single thread to notice that you changed your stance.

But i sincerely apologise if you didn't like what i had typed out earlier or if you thought that i wanted to step on your toes.
Originally posted by Advent

I could point out "a couple of years back" you seemed to possess the intelligence of a mentally retarded rancor, but that doesn't mean anything now, does it? As I said, some age-old stances have changed.
lol ok, but yes your right, i was possibly the most idiotic member on these boards at that time but that doesn't matter now.

Originally posted by Advent

WTF? I never said he stripped her of the Force; the event wasn't even so much as referenced.

I just wanted to ask.... but i should have asked faunus, not you as you didn't bring it up but him, sorry again.

Originally posted by Advent

Although, what I would say is that he tossed her around like a ragdoll. And the fact that she couldn't even muster the strength to get her lightsaber just further proves Nihilus' power if we assume it was a Force push.
Ok, that certainly is impressive, but is every top tier force user going to end up being "Ragdolled" by a simple force push(assuming it was really a force push) by this guy?

I mean i have never seen any force user being unable to call out to their lightsaber just because they had been pushed, but then again i believe that its possible she was too physically weak to reach out with the force to pull her saber because of the massive impact that took place when she was brutally pushed into that pillar.
Originally posted by Advent

Plus, when we've seen Traya instapwn three esteemed Jedi masters, it's impressive that she couldn't withstand this power. And his telekinetic abilities aren't even close to his Force drain in the respect of power. Ok.



Originally posted by Advent
Ah, and I think it should be mentioned as a possibility that Traya meant "stripped of her power" in the sense of being cast out of the Sith triumvirate anyways. She lost her power as a Dark Lady of the Sith. Unless I'm mistaken and she mentions being severed from the Force, which may be likely as I haven't played KOTOR2 in ages. Well i was going to list that possiblity earlier but i didn't have the time.

Well it does .

Thank god for the ignore list.

Originally posted by Faunus
Nihilus stripped Darth Traya of her power with a wave of his hand - the three Jedi don't even approach him in that regard. Traya herself repeated the feat on those same Jedi as well as a squad of Sith assassins.

kavar, vrook, zez kai ell and the sith asassins are not anywhere on par with mace windu. so in that not i doubt he would fall as they did.

what nilius did to traya was AFTER she had been blindsided and taken a beating from sion. she was in no position to fight back. this is a 1 on 1, no sion, so a different result will ensue.
even at that i highly doubt it was a simple "wave of the hand" as the cutscene with krei ends when she says she suffered "indignities" it doesnt show nilius disconnecting her, for all we know it could have taken more time than just a second to sever them.

Originally posted by Advent


Oh, please. I'll be equally ridiculous: how is Mace even going to hid his Force sensitivity when he knows exactly squat about about Nihilus?

And he's demonstrated vast telekinetic abilities in any case. Which pretty much carry over to a lot of powers (Force choke, push, etc.). I don't see how Mace has done anything that would elevate him to the level of someone like Nihilus.


1) Mace doesnt need to hide his force sensitivity, visas didnt, the exile didnt but they turned out fine and beat him. now this wasnt even a fully powered exile or vsas but with mace, o boy, he is way above the two of them.

2) feats of nilihus vs feats of mace


nilihus ( taking who knows how long to strip traya from the force, eating people through the force many of whom were defenseless unlike mace, suffering force starvation, ripping a capital ship out of slipspace, which is not too big a deal because he has all day to do it and nothing else to do)

mace (using the force to cause a rockslide destroying countless droids, defeating siddious who is leagues upon leagues nilihus's superior. superconducting palpatine's FL to horribly disfigure him scarring him for life.)

with all feats considered why couldnt mace just use the force to cause parts of the ship to batter nilius then cut him down?

and what makes you think mace is ignorant of nilihus? ever heard of the jedi archives?

Nihilus was so powerful that he was more power than man, was he not? According to Darth Traya, had he kept up the developing pace of power, he would have been the end of all life. He had reached such a level of power that he percepted the universe differently than everyone else.

The guy lifted The Ravager of a planet and into space and he also wiped out an entire planet (Among all them people on it, a large number of Jedi). I believe that he would fail against Windu in a battle with sabers, but when it comes to the force I just can not see Windu stand up against him.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury

The guy lifted The Ravager of a planet and into space and he also wiped out an entire planet (Among all them people on it, a large number of Jedi). I believe that he would fail against Windu in a battle with sabers, but when it comes to the force I just can not see Windu stand up against him. Once again prove that he actually "lifted" the ravager from malachors gravity well. How was it done? How much strength had been exerted? How long did it take? Was a ritual involved?

You see, its inconclusive to say weather he really did lift the ravager with so many questions(that can't be answered) involved.


@MOC.

The exile didn't "loop out of the force" because she didn't need to as she was already a wound in the force which granted her immunity against nihilus, as for visas, nihilus didn't want to kill her.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Once again prove that he actually "lifted" the ravager from malachors gravity well. How was it done? How much strength had been exerted? How long did it take? Was a ritual involved?

You see, its inconclusive to say weather he really did lift the ravager with so many questions(that can't be answered) involved.


@MOC.

The exile didn't "loop out of the force" because she didn't need to as she was already a wound in the force which granted her immunity against nihilus, as for visas, nihilus didn't want to kill her.

"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."
- Tobin

"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
- Darth Traya

"Nihilus could also use the Force to lift starships, as he did on Malachor V with the Ravager, he tore it from the mass shadows that surrounded the planet and kept it together even though it had suffered extensive structural damage"
- Starwars.Wikia

"Drawing upon the Force, Nihilus lifted the Ravager beyond the mass shadows of Malachor V and left with it."
- Knights of the Old Republic

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."
- Tobin
Fallible third parties. Tobin was not there to witness the ship actually being dragged out of the gravity well hence his claims cannot be taken seriously.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury

"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
- Darth Traya
This proves he lifted the ship how?

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury

"Nihilus could also use the Force to lift starships, as he did on Malachor V with the Ravager, he tore it from the mass shadows that surrounded the planet and kept it together even though it had suffered extensive structural damage"
- Starwars.Wikia Oh please, your using WOOKIEPEDIA?
Anyone could have simply put that in.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury

"Drawing upon the Force, Nihilus lifted the Ravager beyond the mass shadows of Malachor V and left with it."
- Knights of the Old Republic I wonder where did you get this, because Kotor 2 says otherwise.

Direct quote from the loading screen
The ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V

Notice it said "hauled" which is subjective and could mean that he has used other means of pulling the ships out?

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Right, it is impressive he wiped out a planet, but again what even hints that he did it with "utter ease"

Star Wars: Tales. Read it

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Just who on earth is arguing windu > nihilus force wise? Not i.

The thread is Nihilus Vs. Mace, right? All I was doing was sharing my view on why Nihilus would win Force and All-Out. You were the one going into depth revolving insignificant details.

Who cares if he lifted it trough a ritual, or if he had machine help, or manpower help? The Ravager left Malachor V thanks to Nihilus. Tobin said that he tore it from the mass shadows along with his fleet. Said that it is a measure of his power. Then if you find it a reliable source or not, I do not really care. It's the closest to details I can come. We already know he is extremely powerful with the force, so it is not unlikely that he used it to lift the Ravager.

But out of curiosity, what machines would he have used? Or what ritual? In what way did he put his manpower to use?

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury


Who cares if he lifted it trough a ritual, or if he had machine help, or manpower help? The Ravager left Malachor V thanks to Nihilus. Tobin said that he tore it from the mass shadows along with his fleet. Said that it is a measure of his power. Then if you find it a reliable source or not, I do not really care. It's the closest to details I can come. We already know he is extremely powerful with the force, so it is not unlikely that he used it to lift the Ravager.


No fleet, just the Ravager.

According to your quote

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
"Drawing upon the Force, Nihilus lifted the Ravager beyond the mass shadows of Malachor V and left with it."
- Knights of the Old Republic

And the one that Ivalice and myself have posted before:

The ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V

Tobin said fleet, and in my post that you quoted, I believe I specified that.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Tobin said fleet, and in my post that you quoted, I believe I specified that.

Yea because Tobin was there to witness it. And that quote can easily mean that the measure of Nihilus's power is the combined power of his personal power(in the force) to lift a ship (then notice the comma in his statement) and his militaristic power with a fleet.

Then why does your other quote I posted exclude a fleet?

Why does the loading screen mention only the Ravager?

Why the hell would he need to haul multiple capital ships from Malachor when he needed just one to escape? He would be wasting more "energy" lifting and then draging a fleet in space for god knows how long. Pretty stupid and illogical move.

If he did pull a fleet from malachor then why do we see those sith starfighters present at the battle of Telos when they were made after the battle of malachors (from the sat forge) if that fleet was from malachor then those fighters shouldn't be there.

Why aren't those sith interdictor ships not damage if they came from Malachor?

Sorry for Tobin but everything points to him only lifting the Ravager not a fleet.

I'm sorry but .... what are you trying to achieve with that post? I never said that he lifted a fleet.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
1) Mace doesnt need to hide his force sensitivity, visas didnt, the exile didnt but they turned out fine and beat him.now this wasnt even a fully powered exile or vsas but with mace, o boy, he is way above the two of them.

Firstly, the game depicts Nihilus as casually stunning the Exile and co. and having them at his mercy. He was even at a disadvantage then insofar that he hadn't been appeased his hunger (which he was planning on doing by destroying Telos).

Then when he does attempt to drain the Exile, it backlashes on him since she's a wound in the Force, thus weakening him. Finally, he had to fend off three powerful combatants. Even so, Visas stated that he was still "too powerful". And there's also a distinct possibility that Visas sacrificed herself to further inflict damage due to their Force bond.

It's complete rubbish to mention his defeat at the hands of the Exile as it had extenuating circumstances surrounding it.



Let's not be ridiculous now. You're clearly degrading Nihilus' feats to an extreme measure.

I don't even think he tried to sever Traya's Force connection; see my previous posts. In the case that it was nothing more than a Force push, then it speaks volumes for his power.

How would "having all day" to pull the Ravager out of the gravity well mean anything? Do you think he pulled it inch by inch? LOL. It's safe to assume he just ripped it out with his vast Force power when you consider he was capable of holding the same ship together so it could function properly even through hyperspace.

Also, I'm curious as to where Mace's defenses would be for a technique capable of consuming entire worlds. You've yet to offer any valid proof Mace can resist its effects.



None of these put him on Nihilus' level. He managed to cause a rockslide, which in the manner you're describing it makes it seem like he didn't do much.

His defeat of Sidious was in a lightsaber battle only; same with redirecting Sidious' lightning back unto him. Nihilus' abilities aren't tangible so they can't be blocked with a saber.

The notion that ROTS Sidious is "leagues upon leagues Nihilus' superior" is hardly true. He is the most powerful, yes, but not in all regards. Not that it has any relevance since Mace only won due his skill with a blade.



Because he hasn't demonstrated the power to do such? I could ask the same about Nihilus, who's telekinetic powers far outweigh Mace's.



Ever heard of offering up a factual basis to assume Mace magically knows all/anything about Nihilus? The default position would be skepticism here - Mace wasn't exactly a historian.

Still, while Nihilus' draining ability is his most devastating power, he's not lacking in the TK department (which encompasses powers like choke, push, etc.), so what can Windu actually do?

Originally posted by Advent
Since when was the technique the Jedi masters "attempted" to use on the Exile the same as Nihilus' devastating dark side ability? If I recall, Traya mentions its uniqueness to Nihilus alone;
Are you sure it is unique to Nihilus? I thought it was the same thing that the sith assasins used?

Originally posted by Advent
If I recall, Traya mentions its uniqueness to Nihilus alone; quit tossing invalid evidence around like it means anything.

When did she say that? I recall no such thing, and I cleared the game a few days ago.

No, you guys appear to be correct on the matter. According to what I've read, it would seem it isn't something that can be taught or learned by conventional means (Nihilus' power with it is unprecedented though). I was mistaken in saying it's unique to Nihilus. Sorry about that, I haven't played it in awhile.

Edit:

However, I don't think it is the same technique the Sith assassins use. That seems to be a normal Force drain whereas Nihilus' version is described as slowly draining all those around him just by standing there. He can, of course, focus it like he does when he destroys Katarr.

Obsidian, what do you think since you just finished a run-through of the game?

Nihilus has to do that to tide himself over...we know such 'drains' of sorts can be done in tiny, trace amounts, or massively focused. If the Sith assassins wanted, I've little doubt they could use it in tiny, trace amounts at a time like Nihilus does to his crew

From my understanding, Nihilus' drain isn't the same. I don't think he has to exert any energy to drain them, that is a part of his nature as Kreia explains to the Exile.

As well, Visas seems to imply the same mentioning "life dies... sacrificing itself to his hunger". Is it stated in the game that there's a connection between Nihilus' drain and the Sith assassins?

Not precisely, no. I don't think the drain is something Nihilus consciously does, but it seems a drain nonetheless

Originally posted by Advent
Obsidian, what do you think since you just finished a run-through of the game?

Sorry, I didnt really pay much attention about those kind of things. The only time I focused was during dialogues. When it came to combat, I often read something on the side, listened to music or used the internet to stuff meanwhile

I have just cleared the game with one light side male and one dark side female. From what I've heard, I should get some new dialogues this time drool

Originally posted by Advent
From my understanding, Nihilus' drain isn't the same. I don't think he has to exert any energy to drain them, that is a part of his nature as Kreia explains to the Exile.

As well, Visas seems to imply the same mentioning "life dies... sacrificing itself to his hunger". Is it stated in the game that there's a connection between Nihilus' drain and the Sith assassins?

Like they say, Nihilus is a wound in the force.

Originally posted by Advent
From my understanding, Nihilus' drain isn't the same. I don't think he has to exert any energy to drain them, that is a part of his nature as Kreia explains to the Exile.

As well, Visas seems to imply the same mentioning "life dies... sacrificing itself to his hunger". Is it stated in the game that there's a connection between Nihilus' drain and the Sith assassins?

According to Kreia: "The sect of assassins that chase you feed on the Force... what he does is simply the pinnacle of what they could achieve, in time."

What exactly was Nihilus going to use to not only pull The Ravager out of that gravity well, but also hold it together? Another capital ship? Because, you know, that would totally be able to survive getting within range of the Mass Shadows Generator without itself getting crushed to pieces. Tractor beam? Yeah, I don't think so. That also wouldn't be some "measure of his power," would it?

As far as his feat on Katarr, he destroys the entire Miraluka population as well as the numerous Jedi who were at the conclave there...with his voice! By speaking! Did he say a paragraph long Sith chant, or simply, "Shazam!"? Does it freakin' matter?

As for not destroying Mandalore, his force drain only works on Force sensitives (if I'm not mistaken). And how is that at all relevant?

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury


Who cares if he lifted it trough a ritual, or if he had machine help, or manpower help?
Who cares? Um it debunks any theories that he lifted the ship by himself, or if he even lifted it at all.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury


The Ravager left Malachor V thanks to Nihilus. Tobin said that he tore it from the mass shadows along with his fleet. Said that it is a measure of his power. Then if you find it a reliable source or not, I do not really care. It's the closest to details I can come. We already know he is extremely powerful with the force, so it is not unlikely that he used it to lift the Ravager. Once again, tobin is fallible, he did NOT witness the feat being performed, how do you know he didn't make it up? How do you know he is telling the truth?

And why would he waste time lifting up useless and junkie ships which made up his "fleet"? Incase you were wondering, he did NOT pull a fleet out of the well either as the loading screen states he merely used the ravager to escape malachor V. If he just wants to escape, why bother lifting other broken ships? And he isn't stupid enough to use badly damaged warships to build his fleet.

Once again, prove that he pulled out his ship with the force or simply concede, find concrete evidence.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury

But out of curiosity, what machines would he have used? Or what ritual? In what way did he put his manpower to use? But out of curiosity , what indicates he used the force at all? Which reliable source states that he did?

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Star Wars: Tales. Read it It still doesn't show he did it with "utter ease". Tell me one thing, if he could wipe out planets with "utter ease" please justfity why he couldn't wipe out non sensitives like mandalore with "utter ease" when he was clearly the weak link in the ravager duel seeing he is non force sensitive and does not have the abilities of a jedi.

EDIT sorry for the double post, forgot that i could edit my last post.

Originally posted by Enyalus
What exactly was Nihilus going to use to not only pull The Ravager out of that gravity well, but also hold it together? Another capital ship? Because, you know, that would totally be able to survive getting within range of the Mass Shadows Generator without itself getting crushed to pieces. Tractor beam? Yeah, I don't think so. That also wouldn't be some "measure of his power," would it?

As far as his feat on Katarr, he destroys the entire Miraluka population as well as the numerous Jedi who were at the conclave there...with his voice! By speaking! Did he say a paragraph long Sith chant, or simply, "Shazam!"? Does it freakin' matter?

As for not destroying Mandalore, his force drain only works on Force sensitives (if I'm not mistaken). And how is that at all relevant?

He killed people by speaking? LOL then why didn't mandalore and the exile end up dead then when he was rambling his garbage?

And your clearly wrong about nihilus "drain attack". It kills any individual which has a connection to the force meaning all living things in star wars.

Besides it isn't just some regular force drain, kreia stated that he severs/destroys his victims force bond which kills them instantly(as kreia stated all life cannot exist without the force) and then feeds on the death that he has just caused.

Oh yes and talk about him holding his ship together with tk, if he was conciously doing so, why didn't the ship break apart when he was killed? Why was the ship still intact?

If its ok can you list down the quote where it stated that he held his ship together? Thank you.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
He killed people by speaking? LOL then why didn't mandalore and the exile end up dead then when he was rambling his garbage?

It's likely not meant to be taken in a literal context; rather Visas is trying to convey the ease of which he can execute his power.

The Exile's nature is that she, like Nihilus, is a wound in the Force. We saw what happened when he attempted to sap her with his Force drain. He was weakened, just like if you choose to sacrifice Visas to further devitalize him due to the Force bond.



Only when he focuses his hunger; otherwise he just gradually depletes their essence.



Why would the ship crumble just because Nihilus died? I see no reason why it should. He was only holding it together insomuch that it would've been impossible to function properly otherwise. Canderous mentions as much and Tobin pretty much confirms it.



Tobin says,

"He holds it together. And he keeps us all alive, just enough, like rotworms in a dying beast."

Then you have Mandalore mentioning that,

" is barely holding itself together. The structural damage should have destroyed it long ago."

And before you mention anything regarding their fallibility, there's no reason to assume they were misinformed/making shit up as there was nothing to gain from doing so. Not to mention, Tobin was the one on the freakin' ship; it's safe to say he knew well enough about the situation considering his dialogue and position.

Thank you, Advent.

Originally posted by Advent
It's likely not meant to be taken in a literal context; rather Visas is trying to convey the ease of which he can execute his power.

The Exile's nature is that she, like Nihilus, is a wound in the Force. We saw what happened when he attempted to sap her with his Force drain. He was weakened, just like if you choose to sacrifice Visas to further devitalize him due to the Force bond.
I know that, but some people(or fanboys) take it so literally and they want to pass it off as a feat of nihilus in debates hence i had to ask them that question.

Originally posted by Advent

Only when he focuses his hunger; otherwise he just gradually depletes their essence. Well i just wanted to correct what the other member claimed of nihilus drain but other than that i do acknowledge that he gradually depletes those around him(his crew).


Originally posted by Advent

Why would the ship crumble just because Nihilus died? I see no reason why it should. He was only holding it together insomuch that it would've been impossible to function properly otherwise. Canderous mentions as much and Tobin pretty much confirms it.
Fair enough. I thought that the ship was in pieces hence why he needed to hold it in the first place, most people seem to imply that hence i was being skeptical and asked such questions if it were true.

Originally posted by Advent


Firstly, the game depicts Nihilus as casually stunning the Exile and co. and having them at his mercy. He was even at a disadvantage then insofar that he hadn't been appeased his hunger (which he was planning on doing by destroying Telos).

Then when he does attempt to drain the Exile, it backlashes on him since she's a wound in the Force, thus weakening him. Finally, he had to fend off three powerful combatants. Even so, Visas stated that he was still "too powerful". And there's also a distinct possibility that Visas sacrificed herself to further inflict damage due to their Force bond.

It's complete rubbish to mention his defeat at the hands of the Exile as it had extenuating circumstances surrounding it.



Let's not be ridiculous now. You're clearly degrading Nihilus' feats to an extreme measure.

I don't even think he tried to sever Traya's Force connection; see my previous posts. In the case that it was nothing more than a Force push, then it speaks volumes for his power.

How would "having all day" to pull the Ravager out of the gravity well mean anything? Do you think he pulled it inch by inch? LOL. It's safe to assume he just ripped it out with his vast Force power when you consider he was capable of holding the same ship together so it could function properly even through hyperspace.

Also, I'm curious as to where Mace's defenses would be for a technique capable of consuming entire worlds. You've yet to offer any valid proof Mace can resist its effects.



None of these put him on Nihilus' level. He managed to cause a rockslide, which in the manner you're describing it makes it seem like he didn't do much.

His defeat of Sidious was in a lightsaber battle only; same with redirecting Sidious' lightning back unto him. Nihilus' abilities aren't tangible so they can't be blocked with a saber.

The notion that ROTS Sidious is "leagues upon leagues Nihilus' superior" is hardly true. He is the most powerful, yes, but not in all regards. Not that it has any relevance since Mace only won due his skill with a blade.



Because he hasn't demonstrated the power to do such? I could ask the same about Nihilus, who's telekinetic powers far outweigh Mace's.



Ever heard of offering up a factual basis to assume Mace magically knows all/anything about Nihilus? The default position would be skepticism here - Mace wasn't exactly a historian.

Still, while Nihilus' draining ability is his most devastating power, he's not lacking in the TK department (which encompasses powers like choke, push, etc.), so what can Windu actually do?


alright alright you had your say.

My turn

1) your fist argument falls due to its contingency on gameplay. if i wear a force mask, nilius aint stunning nothing. who knows what the exile wore.

2) your second argument fails because

A) nilius was trying to kill all 3 of then and failed to drain each one EVEN THE NON_FORCE SENSITIVE MANDATORY MANDALORE. so if he failed to do that, what state would he be in to just instantly drain mace if he is so weak and hungry as you say?

B) the "possibility of visas sacrificing herself" is irrelevant because she lived through the battle and did not die. she said he was too powerful because she was intimidated. notice how after the exile told her to pull herself together she got back up and kept fighting and won

3) let me help you understand my point about nilihus having all day to rip the ravager from slip space.

when it is spoken of nilihus being powerful enough to rip the ravager out nothing is said about him doing it INSTANTLY therefore we dont know HOW LONG it took him to do it. he could have been there a weelk just doing nothing but pushing force TK into his efforts (which migh explain the hunger lol) but my point is we cannot assume he did it instantly. he very well could have done it little by little, in which case mace, yoda, or anakin could do the same thing if they were calm enough,patient enough and knew what they were doing. so its not too big a deal.

4) let me squash 2 of the arguments stated by you with one stone. if you watch CW mace with a mere wave of his hand threw superbattle droids through one another and crushed many other droids, so he WOULD be able to just take ship parts and beat nilihus on the head with them much like vader did to luke in ESB then when nilihus falls he cuts him down.

5) YOU are the one that stated that mace doesnt know of nilihus therefore the burden of proof is on YOU to show me that he didnt know of nilihus. my point was that he could have known about them

6) siddious is stated as the most powerful sith, so its all around, there is no one area where he is stated as being lower than other sith

7) for all these reasons i say mace wins

I'll let Advent deal with the rest of your post, MoC...however:

With regards to your Sidious argument, simply because a being is the most powerful does not mean that they are the most powerful in every single way for every single type of attack. That's a horrible fallacy. I've just come from the Comics vs. section so I'll use the example of this: Superman is more powerful than Flash. Ergo, Superman is faster than Flash. Faulty logic and inherently untrue.

Until Sidious shows he can kill an entire planet's population using his Force Drain technique, Nihilus' skill in that particular technique is greater than Sidious'. Know why? 'Cause he's got the feat to back it up.

Originally posted by Enyalus


Until Sidious shows he can kill an entire planet's population using his Force Drain technique, Nihilus' skill in that particular technique is greater than Sidious'. Know why? 'Cause he's got the feat to back it up. Um palpatines mere presence on byss(without doing jack) turned a "once fertile world into one of the most powerful dark side sites in the galaxy" though it did take years simply because palpatine was not executing the technique in a manner that it would drain everything instantly.



And palpatines force storms has been stated(ask gideon for the source, i took it from him) to be able to rip a planets mass apart(the entire surface) as well as annihilating entire star fleets with ease.

Palpatine as of DE is for sure ahead of nihilus though nihilus is quite the power house. All he needs is some damn back story to develop his character and i'm sure he would be much more likable.

Schwarzenegger: None of what you mention involved Force Drain.



MoC: Advent, myself, and probably others have already given you reasons for this. It isn't our fault if you decide to keep asking the same question. Firstly, he didn't want to drain or kill Visas Marr, and was deeply hurt by her betrayal. Secondly, the Jedi Exile is a wound in the force, meaning he cannot drain her, and when he tried it backfired and weakened him. Lastly, why would he try to drain Mandalore, a non-force user? As it's been stated numerous times by numerous sources (Unseen, Unheard rings a bell), force-sensitive places and beings draw him. Draining Mandalore would have done nothing for him or his appetite.



As Advent said, it doesn't matter if he did it instantly, which is the most probable, or gradually after days or weeks. It's an incredible feat either way to mantain such vast TK concentration for that long, with that much weight being supported (the Ravager is 1,200 meters in length), while he is being crushed by the Mass Shadows generator-enhanced gravity powerful enough to rip capital ships from their orbits around Malachor and crash them into the planet's surface.



Actually, since it's acknowledged that he did do it, and no one else has pulled off a similar feat, that would be the only safe assumption. Unless you can prove that others, based on TK feats, can. I'll be waiting.



Nihilus, as has already been stated and you keep ignoring, was weakened. One, he was hungry and hadn't fed on Telos yet. Two, he was crippled from the backlash of trying to drain another wound in the force (Exile). And three, Visas and Nihilus shared a force bond, which is consciously attempted to sever, thus further weakening him. THAT is why he was beaten in saber combat.

Furthermore, Nihilus has at least three of the greatest Force feats in the history of Star Wars:

1. Causing a Supernova - Naga Shadow and...Freedon Nadd (?)
2. Force Storm capable of wiping out an entire fleet - Darth Sidious
3. Wiping out an entire planet's population using Force Drain - Darth Nihilus
4. Sensing every Force-user in the galaxy simultaneously - Darth Nihilus & Luke Skywalker (possibly others?)
5. Using the Force to hold his battlecruiser together and pull it out of the gravity well of Malachor V - Darth Nihilus

Based on sheer Force feats, what makes you think Mace is going to be able to telekinetically throw anything at Nihilus capable of distracting him? Prove it.



No. YOU assume it's in every area, which is a no-limits fallacy. Fallacy means a false conclusion, in case you need a vocabulary lesson in addition to a grammar lesson.

I'm not even going to bother with the Supes/Flash comparison. I'm going to cite one more example: Which is more powerful - An F-22 jet fighter or a B-2 Spirit bomber? F-22 is much faster, has a more powerful engine, far better manueverability, more projectiles, et cetera. It is all around better and more powerful. But, oops, the B-2 can drop nuclear bombs...so for firepower, the B-2 gets the check mark. There are hundreds of other possible examples.

The bottom line is Sidious' Force Drain was never shown to be anywhere near Nihilus' level. Thus, we assume Nihilus' ability in that area is greater until proven otherwise. Assuming the opposite isn't a valid conclusion.



He used Vaapad to do that. In an All-Out match, I've already shown that Mace isn't going to be able to use Vaapad's special abilities or his Shatterpoint, unless he wants to be absolutely destroyed by Force Drain or TK. Now, pure saber combat, yes - we've all acknowledged that Mace's ability with a lightsaber dwarfs Nihilus'.


That's all for now.

OH MY GOD! Thank you, Enyalus. That was really a fantastic post! I hope he gets the point now. I advise you to carefully read these posts, Man of Christ.



Just what precisely are you going on about? I never said anything of the sort. You previously claimed my point was invalid since it can be changed through gameplay. I clearly showed that's not the case.

Anyways, I don't see anything convincing that suggests Mace will be able to resist any of Nihilus' attacks. The Exile was very powerful no matter how you play through (certainly no catfish) and she was stunned by a casual wave of the hand. And we can assume that is far from the upper limit of his power.



I guess we're using Mace Windu when he got his hand lopped off by Anakin then? No, we're discussing the characters at states where they are not impaired. As I said previously, they are at their peaks conditionally. Which means that what happened in the Ravager, stays in the Ravager - it's not proof of anything.



^

See that post above mine; and this is downright ridiculous. Nihilus is never "full" really, I believe he can tide his hunger over if he absorbs a mass of living things however. That is not to say he can't or won't drain singular persons (like he tried on the Exile).



Um, I said it was a strong possibility and it is. We don't know what happened to Visas, so prove she lived through the ordeal. No official ruling has been made, AFAIK. Even if she didn't sacrifice herself it is irrelevant to my CONCLUSION; the battle is inadmissible as evidence. You're too caught up on ONE sentence to see my entire point.

As well, you don't seem to understand that someone wouldn't be fearful for no reason, unless they were Nihilophobiacs (get it?). So he had to have possessed the upper hand some point in the duel to make Visas say that.



Weren't you the one who just warned about gameplay elements being non-canon? Yet here you're using them to support your argument.



Well, I think it would be harder and require more power to be able to hold the Ravager in a constant stasis for x amount of time (and still lift it into orbit). So instead of making Nihilus into more of a demigod than he already is, I think it is best to assume he did it instantly. It doesn't make a difference either way.



That's a bit daft. Lucas hasn't read a majority of the Expanded Universe materials. So how is he going to correct mistakes there? He has Leland Chee and other LFL employees to deal with that type of work. And the former has said that they made the Jedi badass to appeal to children.



The only chance Mace has to defeat him is in a lightsaber battle. But suggesting that Mace can close the distance between the two is absurdity at best when we've seen what Nihilus is capable of doing with the Force.



...Err, what? I didn't intend to.



He's on the Jedi Council and #2 in the Order, ergo he knows intimate details about Darth Nihilus? That doesn't follow. You can't draw a connection between them based on that.

Like I said, doubt is going to be the default belief here. There can be numerous other possibilities, but none of them can be proven. So we shouldn't allow any of them, rather "he knows exactly squat about him ". If we accepted that he was aware of Nihilus' powers, then it gives Mace an advantage that he might not actually possess. Not that it matters when he is dead though.



What? That doesn't make any sense.

So you're saying that Nihilus: a) won't be able to defend against that, b) isn't capable of doing the same thing, c) would be overpowered by the much weaker Mace Windu with silly Force tactics?

And macro/micro vision? Right. You need to start offering up some valid evidence for these assumptions.

Nihilus utterly tossed Traya around like a ragdoll (who's > Mace), used TK on a more massive scale than Windu (lifting the Ravager), destroyed an entire world with ease, and casually stunned two powerful beings in an instant. I don't see Mace standing anything more than a snowball's chance in hell.



Lol, no problem. Even though I really can't agree with your points, thanks for responding back!

Originally posted by Enyalus
Schwarzenegger: None of what you mention involved Force Drain.



Palpatine DID drain(force drain) the inhabitants of byss . Don't believe me? Ask lightsnake to give you the page number from dark empire source book to prove it.

Once again nihilus attack is NOT force drain if you actually paid any attention to kreia, she stated that he destroyes/severs his victims force bond killing them instantly and then feeds on the death he has caused.

Originally posted by Enyalus

1. Causing a Supernova - Naga Shadow and...Freedon Nadd Incase you didn't know, naga caused a supernova via technology, it was NOT off his own power and weaklings like aleema keto could use that technology to blow up stars as well.

Read the new essential chronology or the sith war, they prove that naga relied on technology for these feats.

I'll ask you again, prove up that nihilus actually lifted the ship from the gravity well, find a reliable source other than tobin whom is fallible because he was not there at malachor to actually see nihilus do anthing to the ravager hence he cannot be taken seriously.

Nadd caused a supernova? My mind is drawing blank on that.

No, it was Aleema Keto actually.

I don't know why everybody thinks nihilus super attack is a simple force drain, if its a mere force drain then why does kreia call it the greatest of the sith teachings?

I said time and again that what he does(according to his former master kreia) is that he breaks the force bond between his victim and the force which kills them instantly and then feeds on the death he has caused.

The exile too had the ability to feed on the death she has caused but she didn't know it.(I think it was the jedi masters kreia killed that said this)

I don't think anyone said it was a "simple" Force drain. It's just easier to call it a Force drain since we're too lazy to think of anything else.

Well enyalus made it seem like a simple force drain from the way he lays out his arguments.

Personally i like to call it his force sever technique.

I had a question mark next to Freedon Nadd, 'cause I couldn't recall exactly. If it was Aleema Keto, okays then...

Also, you can't really tell how the nova is created in the TOTJ comics, but if the sourcebook says so, then I'll defer to that. That's just moving Nihilus' feats up one on my list.

I was under the impression that Treia was the one with Force Sever, and Nihilus with Force Drain. If you're right, though, that's cool, too. Just replace every 'Force Drain' in my argument with 'Force Sever' and the argument still holds. Kind of like if I was to say Sidious is awesome because he destroyed an entire fleet with his Force Crush ability. It'd be wrong because it was Force Storm...but the badassness factor still holds, and the statement doesn't change much.

As long as Sidious doesn't have any Force Sever feats greater or equal to wiping out and entire planet of Force-Sensitives and congregated Jedi, Nihilus' Force Sever ability > Sidious' Force Sever ability.

MoC, you said that Mace has to know of Nihilus because he's number 2 in the order, right? Well then why don't you prove that he knows of him? You're assuming that Mace knows of him, the same you way you're saying that Advent can't assume he doesn't. How does that work?

And why didn't the number 2 or even number 1 know anything about any Sith for 1000 years? Sidious, Dooku (until he revealed himself), Maul, Plageus (spelling?) and so on and so forth. Surely someone strong enough in the force to be able to stop death would make a ripple in the proverbial force pool.

Mace was number 2 in the Order because of his strength and knowledge of the force. That's why he stood out. Nothing that I've read points to Mace being an historian and gaining all knowledge of every Jedi and Sith in the history of both.

Also, as far as GL reading and watching everything Star Wars related, watch his interview with Seth McFarland when he doesn't know what music goes to which part (as most of us would know), and also the part where he says that he doesn't watch his creations that much. He has "people who handle" those things, and he loosely "oversees." L. Chee is one of those "people," and if he deems something canon or non-canon, or a blatent exaggeration of "character's possible abilities," then that's the way it is unless the big guy specifically says otherwise.


Advent, is Nihilus' ship feat something you would put beyond the capabilities of RoTS Sidious?

Originally posted by Enyalus
As long as Sidious doesn't have any Force Sever feats greater or equal to wiping out and entire planet of Force-Sensitives and congregated Jedi, Nihilus' Force Sever ability > Sidious' Force Sever ability. Just remember that nihilus "force sever" is unlike that of an ordinary one and he was gifted with this ability the same way battle meditation was gifted to bastila.

The true nature and concept of nihilus "super sever technique" is still very hard for many of us to fully understand because kotor2 sometimes can be abit vague.

Don't forget that nihilus can't simply drop down any top tier force sensitive that easily as some like to believe(people like DE sidious or luke at his peak) because there are actually defences to this technique and the stronger your opponrnt(especially if he is stronger than you), the stronger his defences are.

Back on topic.

While mace for sure defeats nihilus in a saber duel, he has little chance in a force fight and possibly an all out fight.

However i doubt it will be "ownage" on mace in a force fight considering he is a powerful force user but would still lose. In an all out, nihilus can beat mace if he uses the force but if mace manages to get close and cross sabers then the tide turns.

Yeah, it's a darker variant on the Jedi Force Sever ability...meaning that, potentially, the ordinary defenses used to stop a Force Sever technique won't work with Nihilus' version. Now that would be pure speculation, but it seems reasonable. If you've never seen a particular ability, or if it's a familiar ability with a twist, it stands to reason you'd have trouble countering.

As big of a Nihilus fanboy I must sound like, I'd never argue that Nihilus would be able to beat DE Sidious or NJO Luke on his own.



I know this was directed at Advent, but my opinion on it would be that no, he could not. ROTS Sidious' most impressive TK feat was throwing the Senate pods at Yoda, wasn't it?

In the movie, it looks to me like the first pod he attempts to pick up, he initially struggles with. His facial expression changes into a grimace, if I recall correctly. Also, he starts spinning the pods he throws at Yoda. The only explanation I can come up with for that is because a spinning object will have more kinetic force than a regularly pushed object. I'm of the opinion that on his own, Sidious couldn't throw the pods at Yoda quickly enough using pure TK, and had to spin them sideways to generate more torque/speed/damage.

Even if my interpretation is wrong, I can't see him lifting a 1,200 meter long capital ship. And not from a gravity well. Geez.

Actually Yoda stopped the one and had to start spinning it be fore throwing it. Sidious was laughing the whole time and lifting new ones as he was casually throwing other ones. Yoda was like closing his eyes and really focusing on that ONE pod.

And remember, just cause that's all we see him do doesn't mean that's all he can do.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah, it's a darker variant on the Jedi Force Sever ability...meaning that, potentially, the ordinary defenses used to stop a Force Sever technique won't work with Nihilus' version. Now that would be pure speculation, but it seems reasonable. If you've never seen a particular ability, or if it's a familiar ability with a twist, it stands to reason you'd have trouble countering.

There are two defences actually, the fallanasi technique and the sith spell that zannah has.

Both those techniques mask your force sensitivity making it appear as you are dead to the force and in this case which nihilus sees through the force, the user would simply appear invisible to him, you can't touch what you can't see(the cloaked force bond).

Now, i'd like to joke and if you can, join me.

Replace a word in a Star Wars quote with the word *penis*.

I'll go first.

Yoda: (to sidious) At an end your penis is, and not short enough it was.

yoda: yes, a jedi's Penis flows with the force...but beware of the dark side

Yoda: I cannot train him. The boy has no penis.

Luke: I can't... it's too big.
Yoda: Size matters not. Look at me judge me by my penis do you?


ANH
Obi-Wan: I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did.
Luke: What is it?
Obi-Wan: Your father's penis

You need sleep, Kadesh, lol.

^

to be fair, i think a lot of the struggling we saw from yoda where the 'pod scene' is concerned, came from him having to first stop the momentum it had from palps sending it at him, then having to throw it back.

Its only 11 30 am here, besides whats wrong with cracking a joke? Its for those who engaged in debates to relieve off a little stress from all those logn arguments.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Actually Yoda stopped the one and had to start spinning it be fore throwing it.

Oh, my God. You're right. And I need to go to bed or grab some coffee or something if I'm mixing up stuff like that (I'm dyslexic, but can check it when alert). Bleh. I've got no clue. I'll bow to Advent's opinion on that one.


Schwarzenegger: :P That's sooo wrong. But, what the hell, I'll play along.

ANH:

Obi-Wan: This little one's not worth the effort. Now come, let me get you something.
Bartender: No penises! No penises!

Darth Vader: A tremor in the penis. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.
Governor Tarkin: Surely he must be dead by now.
Darth Vader: Don't underestimate the penis.


Okay, all done. lol

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
MoC, you said that Mace has to know of Nihilus because he's number 2 in the order, right? Well then why don't you prove that he knows of him? You're assuming that Mace knows of him, the same you way you're saying that Advent can't assume he doesn't. How does that work?

And why didn't the number 2 or even number 1 know anything about any Sith for 1000 years? Sidious, Dooku (until he revealed himself), Maul, Plageus (spelling?) and so on and so forth. Surely someone strong enough in the force to be able to stop death would make a ripple in the proverbial force pool.

Mace was number 2 in the Order because of his strength and knowledge of the force. That's why he stood out. Nothing that I've read points to Mace being an historian and gaining all knowledge of every Jedi and Sith in the history of both.

Also, as far as GL reading and watching everything Star Wars related, watch his interview with Seth McFarland when he doesn't know what music goes to which part (as most of us would know), and also the part where he says that he doesn't watch his creations that much. He has "people who handle" those things, and he loosely "oversees." L. Chee is one of those "people," and if he deems something canon or non-canon, or a blatent exaggeration of "character's possible abilities," then that's the way it is unless the big guy specifically says otherwise.


Advent, is Nihilus' ship feat something you would put beyond the capabilities of RoTS Sidious?

dont mischaracterize my point i say the you CANNOT assume he is ignorant.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Oh, my God. You're right. And I need to go to bed or grab some coffee or something if I'm mixing up stuff like that (I'm dyslexic, but can check it when alert). Bleh. I've got no clue. I'll bow to Advent's opinion on that one.


Schwarzenegger: :P That's sooo wrong. But, what the hell, I'll play along.

ANH:

Obi-Wan: This little one's not worth the effort. Now come, let me get you something.
Bartender: No penises! No penises!

Darth Vader: A tremor in the penis. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.
Governor Tarkin: Surely he must be dead by now.
Darth Vader: Don't underestimate the penis.


Okay, all done. lol lol ok, hmm my turn again.

Anakin to sidious : is it possible to learn this power?
Sidious to anakin not from a penis.

Sideous: There are many "enhancing" abilities that some would consider to be... unnatural.

Anakin: Is it possible to learn this power?

Sideous: Ask your Doctor, and ask about possible side-effects!

- - - - - - - - - - -

Sideous: I can feeeeeeel your arasoul. Gives you focus. makes you longer!

- - - - - - - -

Darth Sidious: You will not stop me! My Penis will become larger than either of us!
Yoda: Faith in your Penis, misplaced may be. As is your faith in male enhanement.

I cheated.

Vader to luke: obi-wan never told you what happened to your penis...

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Yoda: I cannot train him. The boy has no penis.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
dont mischaracterize my point i say the you CANNOT assume he is ignorant. I understand, but likewise you cannot assume that he knows him.

Kadesh:

Palpatine to Luke: You want this, don't you? The Penis is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi Penis. Use it! I am unarmed. Strike me down with it! Give in to your anger! With each passing moment, you make yourself more my slave!

Lando Calrissian: That Penis came from the Death Star.

Darth Vader: Luke, help me take this Penis off.
Luke Skywalker: But you'll die!
Darth Vader: Nothing can stop that now. Just for once, let me look on you with my own Penis.

(in continuation to Arnold's last post)

Luke: He told me enough! He told me you killed it!
Vader: No, Luke. I am your penis.

Hmm my turn again.

Episode I
Qui-Gon Jinn: There's always a bigger penis.

Episode II

Yoda: Truly wonderful, the penis of a child is.

Yoda: Senator Amidala, your tragedy on the landing platform, terrible. Seeing you alive brings warm feelings to my penis.

Han: That's 'cause droids don't pull people's penises out of their sockets when they lose. Wookies are known to do that
C3P0: I see your point, sir.


Episode V

Lando: We only use this facility for carbon freezing. If you put him in there it might kill him.
Vader: I do not want the Emperor's penis damaged. We will test it....



Episode VI

Leia: If he can feel your penis then leave this place!

I thought japanese guys had small penis because of the hiroshima bomb blast?

Admiral Ackbar: Our shields cannot withstand a penis of that magnitude.

Kreia:Vrook was right to come here, but he did not know the penis until it was to late.

Palpatine: Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth Penis.

Obi-Wan: You were the Chosen Penis.

The Ebon Penis

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
I thought japanese guys had small penis because of the hiroshima bomb blast? possibly... there is this one guy who had like 7 functioning testicles died last year...

Episode VI

Admiral Ackbar : Its a PENIS!!!

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Yoda: Truly wonderful, the penis of a child is.

LO-freakin'-L! That is just too wrong...

WOW!! I think at this point, we need some moderatorship. please.... stop.

All this talk of the male anatomy. I never knew how many of you were homosexuals.

Wuz wrong with having a little fun? Many of us get so caught up with debates or shit in real life (sometimes it even gets heated) and i just feel the need for everyone to joke and loosen up.

But anyways i'll stop.. for now.

When talk of penises goes on for nearly two pages, it's no longer "a little fun;" it's ultra-gay.

Yeah, but then we would have left out possibly the best line ever. From Episode 1, no less -

Yoda: "Qui-Gon's penis I sense in you. Need that, you do not."

Seriously.

Originally posted by Tangible God
When talk of penises goes on for nearly two pages, it's no longer "a little fun;" it's ultra-gay. Right, now let me apply that analogy to a doctors point of view, so just because doctor so and so talks about a penis or writes an article about it which results in an article longer than two pages, he is "ultra-gay" and enjoys sucking dicks.

Just chill out man, i said i already stopped.

Show me your doctorate and I'll chill, till then... faaaaaags. Or children, either or.

Wow so in order to "legally" talk about penis or make fun off quote i *must* have a doctorate? How interesting.

Besides, what do i have to prove to you anyways?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yoda: "Qui-Gon's penis I sense in you. Need that, you do not."
oh snap!

um i think the point is, you guys are talking about male anatomy with no intention of furthering science, but just to be crude. this results in... well, either childish stupidity, or gayness.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Wow so in order to "legally" talk about penis or make fun off quote i *must* have a doctorate? How interesting.

Besides, what do i have to prove to you anyways? You're heterosexuality. And don't put into quotations words I didn't use.

And Knightfall said it for me. I watched the PT Forum decay with dribble like this. A few posts is fine, but pages of it?

Originally posted by Tangible God
You're heterosexuality. And don't put into quotations words I didn't use.

And Knightfall said it for me. I watched the PT Forum decay with dribble like this. A few posts is fine, but pages of it? but its funny and fun



Mace sabers
Nihilus all out didn't you see the part where simply WILLED exile and company stunned(honestly why he didn't kill right then and there)

oh and that vid with lightning and draining sion... N.C maybe but WELL within his capabilitites..

or telelkinetic crush

or he speaks what he spoke at katarr and kills everything on that planet

Originally posted by Tangible God
When talk of penises goes on for nearly two pages, it's no longer "a little fun;" it's ultra-gay.

I lol'ed.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
I lol'ed. hello

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
but its funny and fun



Mace sabers
Nihilus all out didn't you see the part where simply WILLED exile and company stunned(honestly why he didn't kill right then and there)

oh and that vid with lightning and draining sion... N.C maybe but WELL within his capabilitites..

or telelkinetic crush

or he speaks what he spoke at katarr and kills everything on that planet Nice segue.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Nice segue. whats a segue

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
whats a segue Google it.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Google it. HELL NO EXPLAIN IT YOURSELF

No, f*ck you. You're the one who's ignorant, I don't care if you learn or not.

I GOOGLE IT AND WELL DID YOU MEAN IN A GOOD OR BAD WAY

That interpretation's up to you.

I think Tangible God is the gay one and is lashing at others due to his insecurity about it.

Sabers: Nihilus' saber skills are virtually unknown, Mace must be assumed to be superior.

Force: Nihilus.

All Out: Nihilus

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I think Tangible God is the gay one and is lashing at others due to his insecurity about it.

Sabers: Nihilus' saber skills are virtually unknown, Mace must be assumed to be superior.

Force: Nihilus.

All Out: Nihilus agreed

Originally posted by Tangible God
You're heterosexuality. And don't put into quotations words I didn't use.

Please its not like you would believe me even if i did prove I'm heterosexual hence i see nothing to prove to a tiny homo like you.

Do me a favour, prove that you are heterosexual seeing that you get so offended with the humor of making fun of penis(a common trait shared by young gay boys).

Or, shut up and relax. You're spamming, it's getting obnoxious.

Originally posted by Faunus
Or, shut up and relax. You're spamming, it's getting obnoxious. I'll choose relax, and as for spamming, so is everyone.

I've never seen such blatant homophobia. One guy talks about penis, another guy calls him gay. The first guy thinks he has to prove his heterosexuality to someone he doesn't know cause he doesn't want to look like a homo online, the other guy is sitting back laughing cause he doesn't really care one way or the other, he just wants the penis talk to stop.

That about right?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I've never seen such blatant homophobia. One guy talks about penis, another guy calls him gay. The first guy thinks he has to prove his heterosexuality to someone he doesn't know cause he doesn't want to look like a homo online, the other guy is sitting back laughing cause he doesn't really care one way or the other, he just wants the penis talk to stop.

That about right? right...

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I've never seen such blatant homophobia. One guy talks about penis, another guy calls him gay. The first guy thinks he has to prove his heterosexuality to someone he doesn't know cause he doesn't want to look like a homo online, the other guy is sitting back laughing cause he doesn't really care one way or the other, he just wants the penis talk to stop.

That about right? High five for higher perception.

I mean, I made a penis reference, but only in one post, and with two kids, I don't believe my sexuality can be questioned. If it were, by someone I don't know on an online forum, I wouldn't care in the least. Kadesh has a short fuse, and that's fine, but he needs to realize when people are just jerking his chain to get him riled up.

But you have to admit, some of those penis quotes were funny.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I've never seen such blatant homophobia. One guy talks about penis, another guy calls him gay. The first guy thinks he has to prove his heterosexuality to someone he doesn't know cause he doesn't want to look like a homo online, the other guy is sitting back laughing cause he doesn't really care one way or the other, he just wants the penis talk to stop.

That about right? Actually i stated i didn't need to prove anything to him as i couldn't care less not the other way like me wanting to prove my heterosexuality.

But i'll stop before i get obnoxious.

Just saying that's the way it looks to everyone that's reading it. But you have to admit, you like to get at someone when you get mad. I do too, so not saying there's anything wrong with that though.

But, there is something wrong with that.

Oh ok. Anyways i'm cool with him, no hard feelings.