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Taking place in the swamps of Dagobah.

1. Lightsaber only
2. Force only
3. All-Out

1.maul
2.maul
3.maul

Been done before and Maul always comes out on top. Force might be a closer match than the sabers, but he takes that too.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Force might be a closer match than the sabers nah.

Why not? I guess it doesn't matter if we're agreeing on the winner, but I'm curious as to why you say that.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Why not? I guess it doesn't matter if we're agreeing on the winner, but I'm curious as to why you say that. it's my opinion that since maul was able to pretty much walk through force lightning with no ill-effect, he should be all but immune extremely resistent] to pert-near any force powers ventress might be able to muster. plus, ventress doesn't seem to use force powers when she is being attacked relentlessly with saber strikes . her loss to the non-force-sensitive gg showed us that much.

at any rate, maul takes every category.

Maul x 3

Assaj came damn close to overpowering Master Fay right at the start of the Clone Wars with her Force Powers, who was described as absolutely legendary. She's later killed by a surprise attack from Ventress from behind, but not before giving all of her power to Obi-Wan so that he could escape, who proceeded to be in absolute awe of it. I wouldn't say that it would be a stretch to claim that her Force prowess was the best in the entire Order aside from Yoda.

I'd give her the Force battle for sure, and Maul hardly "walked" through the lightning attack; he simply resisted its effects for some duration of time (after being thrown to the floor and expressing severe pain), and maintained the strength to pick up his lightsaber and slice the Nightsister in half before she killed him.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3019/dm1oq8.th.jpg http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9200/dm2af3.th.jpg

Originally posted by Taven
and Maul hardly "walked" through the lightning attack; he simply resisted its effects for some duration of time all the lightning did was make maul go down to his knees for a very short period of time. that's really it.

Originally posted by Taven
(after being thrown to the floor and expressing severe pain),he was not "thrown" to the floor. he simply dropped to his knees upon being struck with the lightning, whilst in a midair leap. also, how did you come to the "severe pain" conclusion?

when the lightning first hit maul, all he exclaimed was "nngh". then in the following panel he uses the expression "nn".

point being, i'd like to know what your definition of "severe pain" is? because your definition, and mine, certainly seem to differ.

Originally posted by Taven
and maintained the strength to pick up his lightsaber and slice the Nightsister in half before she killed him. "maintained the strength" makes it sound as though maul became very weak and barely managed to muster sufficient strength to kill her. but the fact is, he became quite angry when she was preaching to him of the dark side. at this point, maul simply stood up, and sliced her in half. he didn't seem to struggle with that 'task' in the slightest.

and your saying "before she killed him" makes it sound like he was close to death from said attack. however, there is no real evidence of this. in fact, maul can be seen in the pages immediately following, and he appears to have suffered no ill-effect from teh lightning:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/208/dm4ig7.th.jpg http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/8793/dm3uc6.th.jpg


meh, i still believe that if maul were fresh wasn't in the above instance] and enraged, he'd take ventress in all categories, handily.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3019/dm1oq8.th.jpg http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9200/dm2af3.th.jpg

all the lightning did was make maul go down to his knees for a very short period of time. that's really it.

1. That it was a very short amount of time is completely unsupported. No real indication of time is given in the panels.

2. Your response appears to be misplaced. I was simply pointing out that he hardly "walked through it" as some guy earlier claimed.



He had leapt in midair, was being carried by his momentum, was hit by the lightning, and his motion changed course to the ground. Maybe the word "thrown" wasn't the best one to use, but the fact remains that the lightning stopped him in his tracks, and brought him to the ground, on his knees, in severe pain, which was the point that I was getting at. It was being implied that it had no real effect on him whatsoever.



That he was expressing it out loud, as evident by the "NNGH" and "NN?" A person rarely vocally expresses pain unless it's somewhat severe, that Maul had been trained since birth to resist pain and feed on it, and yet expresses it vocally would indicate that the lightning was effecting him substantially.



Exactly. He vocally expresses the pain, doing so at least twice, indicating it wasn't a sudden reaction. For someone who's trained to resist pain, clearly the effects were huge.



So you openly wish to argue semantics? Look past the exact meaning behind my words if you disagree with them, and the point's still there: that the lightning clearly affected Maul to a substantial degree, and it was hardly a walk in the park for him as some have claimed.

And I still maintain that the pain can accurately be described as "severe" given that he expresses it vocally numerous times.



It sounds exactly as it's stated: he maintained the strength necessary to pick up his lightsaber and cut the Nightsister in half. Though, again, the fact that Maul's a being who was highly trained to resist the null effects of pain, and yet vocally expresses it would indicate that it was having an extremely great effect on him, if only in the moment.



Not at all, perhaps if I had said "just before" or something than maybe; my point of saying "before" was to highlight the fact that the lightning was having a great effect on him, and he was looking to die until he managed to pick up his lightsaber.



After the moment had passed, sure. It's not unknown for Force Users to eliminate such effects after the incidents that cause them in the first place pass.





So because he's capable of somewhat resisting the effects of a Nightsister with no real proven ability whatsoever, he's somehow gonna be able to take on someone who competes with legendary Jedi Masters with little to no real experience? By all means, you're entitled to your opinion, but you've in no way managed to adequately support it. That Assaj came within moments of overpowering a legendary Jedi Master with the Force, and then went on to improve in ability for the rest of the Clone Wars, which she played a very active part in, I don't see how someone like Maul has truly displayed anything that would put him on the same level.

Originally posted by Taven
1. That it was a very short amount of time is completely unsupported. No real indication of time is given in the panels. the fact that there were only a few sentences, and no cut-aways to other happenings, tells me the duration was quite minimal.

Originally posted by Taven
That he was expressing it out loud, as evident by the "NNGH" and "NN?" A person rarely vocally expresses pain unless it's somewhat severe, that Maul had been trained since birth to resist pain and feed on it, and yet expresses it vocally would indicate that the lightning was effecting him substantially.

Exactly. He vocally expresses the pain, doing so at least twice, indicating it wasn't a sudden reaction. For someone who's trained to resist pain, clearly the effects were huge. the fact that maul was able to completely ignore the effects of the lightning and strike her down should tell you how irrevelent said "pain" may have been to him.

i still think saying he was in "severe" pain is over the top, but that's neither here nor there. overall, the lightning did little to nothing imo, as maul was able to simply shrug it off. meh.

Originally posted by Taven
So because he's capable of somewhat resisting the effects of a Nightsister with no real proven ability whatsoever, he's somehow gonna be able to take on someone who competes with legendary Jedi Masters with little to no real experience? By all means, you're entitled to your opinion, but you've in no way managed to adequately support it. That Assaj came within moments of overpowering a legendary Jedi Master with the Force, and then went on to improve in ability for the rest of the Clone Wars, which she played a very active part in, I don't see how someone like Maul has truly displayed anything that would put him on the same level. in the pure force category, what has ventress done which leads you to think she'd be able to best maul? i'm not asking for you to tell me again that she competed with jedi masters, i'm asking for actual feats giving her the edge pure force is concerned].


btw, i didn't address the other responses because they would only get circular from here. no offense whatsoever was intended.

Well, that he was, as I've said, trained to resist the null effects of pain, and yet was vocally expressing it, more than once during the ordeal, and never demonstrates any real ease in picking up his lightsaber and slicing the Nightsister in two, would collectively indicate that it was having some substantial effect on him.

What I mentioned... was the feat. She got locked into a Force battle with a legendary Jedi Master, and came within moments of crushing her heart, as can be seen here: http://www.swtimeline.ru/?view=889&size=M&page=068

And here's how powerful Fay actually was:

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?view=889&size=M&page=071
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?view=889&size=M&page=072

She gets stabbed in the heart, and with the little power she has left, gives it to Obi-Wan so that he can escape, who ends up in absolute awe of her, even going so far as to suggest that she may have lived forever with her level of power.

And Assaj came within moments of overpowering her, and that was pretty early on in the war, she undoubtedly improved a lot beyond that point, so I really don't see how Maul even comes close.

Edit - That the panels don't elaborate on anything else doesn't deny that nothing else was happening, and with everything that's shown, no real indication is given as to exactly how much time is spent in between the dialogue. Point being, you can't judge time in comics by the quantity involved in the panels, you need narration that has bearing on it or you simply can't say anything about it.

yeah, i've read that issue. ventress nearly crushing fay's heart just isn't enough for me to think she'd have the definitive force-edge here.

Yeah, well agree to disagree then. It's also worth noting that Assaj has been able to rival some of Maul's greatest accomplishments with a saber throughout the Clone Wars (defeating Kit Fisto, who was renowned for being one of the greatest swordsmen the Jedi Order had ever known), and competing with Anakin and Obi-Wan numerous times) with no real defined mastery of the lightsaber whatsoever, whereas Maul has been stated to be a Master of Juyo, which required high end mastery of multiple forms. It would imply that her Force ability bridged the gap considerably.

Don't point out to Nebby how Fay wasn't actively resisting Ventress's attack and ended up owned anyways.

Also, don't point out how Ventress was never considered more powerful than one of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy at the time, or in the Episode One journal, Maul was noted to be more powerful than any other Jedi. Save Yoda and MAYBE Mace

I still don't see how the lightning change his path of movement. It didn't knock him back or anything; just straight down, maybe. If you look at her, when she initially shocks him, her right leg was forward, then when showing Maul on his knees, he left leg is forward, indicating that she took a step back to widen the gap between them, possibly because Maul kept coming forward.

And if you get stung by a bee, you'll most likely say "ouch" or something to that effect. This is lightning... much more painful than say a bee sting. And you know in comics, when someone is in severe pain they usually caption them saying, "AAAARRGGGGHHHHH!!!!" or something like that. Hell, when I take a big shit, I'll grunt something that sounds like, "nn."

I know what your point was, that he did feel it, but like E here, I wouldn't say severe pain that was to the point where he had to struggle or muster all his remaining energy just to strike her down.

The Nightsister even says he resists it. Also that it's impossible. I'd say he's highly resistant to force lighting.

Woah!

w-What are you doing here, ma'am?



What is the word-for-word quote?

Yeah, I've never heard of that one.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Woah!

w-What are you doing here, ma'am?

I have the Darth Maul comic book I wanted to poke my nose into this

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Hell, when I take a big shit, I'll grunt something that sounds like, "nn." are you implying the lightning hurt maul so bad that he shit his pants?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I know what your point was, that he did feel it, but like E here, I wouldn't say severe pain that was to the point where he had to struggle or muster all his remaining energy just to strike her down. agreed. imo, the lightning really had no effect on maul, aside from dropping him to the ground while in mid-jump.

Originally posted by Galan007
agreed. imo, the lightning really had no effect on maul, aside from dropping him to the ground while in mid-jump.

Which is just logical really.

Not necessarily.

Is there proof that it was the lightning that stopped his momentum and not him simply falling the ground in pain?

wasnt Dooku a jedi at the time that maul was around.. he defineltely even as a jedi would have taken maul, being the most learned student in the ways of the force, and still the unrivalled master of makashi.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Not necessarily.

Is there proof that it was the lightning that stopped his momentum and not him simply falling the ground in pain?

Darth Maul said, and I quote: "There is no pain where strength lies"


Oh, and the Nightsister said during their encounter: "Even you can't stand before force lighting and the power of the Dark side .. how can you .. resist?"


Later in the same issue, Darth Maul had his stomach pretty much sliced up and he did nothing but winch. Pain isnt something that holds Darth Maul back.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
wasnt Dooku a jedi at the time that maul was around.. he defineltely even as a jedi would have taken maul, being the most learned student in the ways of the force, and still the unrivalled master of makashi.

This thread is not about Dooku. It's Maul Vs. Ventress

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
wasnt Dooku a jedi at the time that maul was around.. he defineltely even as a jedi would have taken maul, being the most learned student in the ways of the force, and still the unrivalled master of makashi.

Since this thread is pretty much decided already, I'll get a little off subject and address the above with an opinion of mine.

Two feats of Maul that come to mind off the top of my head are his complete domination of Qui-Gon Jinn, while having an ankle (or was it thigh) injury. Qui-Gon was Dooku's best apprentice and one of the greatest swordsmen of the current Jedi Order.

The other feat is even better: taking apart Anoon Bondara in a few seconds. Anoon was probably the Jedi Battlemaster at the time, and it was stated multiple times that his lightsaber skills were second to none. Which means that he was better with a lightsaber than Mace, Dooku (who was part of the Order at that point), and even Yoda. Now, I wouldn't say that Anoon could beat Yoda in a duel, simply because of Yoda's speed...nonetheless, Anoon had to have been one of the best duelists ever. And Maul put him to shame. Easily. It's my opinion that in a saber battle, Darth Maul would best Darth Tyrannus.

Where a Force battle is concerned, I don't think that would be an issue, either. If an AOTC Obi-Wan can block Dooku's lightning with his saber, you know Maul wouldn't have any problems with it. His TK experience might present a problem for Maul, but I'm betting he could offset that advantage with his lanvarok (Used by Darth Maul - see here for more), which would certainly interrupt Dooku's concentration and give Maul the time he needs to close the distance and cross blades.

^

on the topic of dooku vs. maul, dooku would have the clear advantage in one area in particular . i say this because an instance comes to mind in which maul battled the mildly force-sensetive silus. when they initially started battling, maul was fearful. he was fearful that his master had forsaken him, and that he was no longer favored. this fear, this doubt, made maul seemingly lose his connection to the force, for a moment in which silus began pummeling him.

though maul very quickly used this fear/doubt to his advantage and slaughtered silus, the fact still remains that if one were wise enough to successfully play 'mental games' with maul , then one may well gain that key edge over him. a moment of doubt is all dooku would need imo.

I have problems with the anoon "best duelest in teh orda" thing, yet again. Was the whole thing a writer not really thinking what he was saying, and just writing down something that would screw us over as far as darth maul goes, and make me wonder how in the heck they could have maul beat someone better than dooku and mace windu, and then have obi wan do the drastic, two second long move that caused him to die, when everything, mauls mastery of saber skills, his juyo, his knowledge of multiple martial arts, everything about him screamed for him not to get owned by a padawan.

A person died from trying to enter Darth Maul's mind

^

one needn't enter maul's mind, for the tactic i commented on to be completely effective.

I think a lot of people don't give Maul his proper credit due to his lack of a huge and long-lasting role in the movies, and I was one of them for quite some time. However, while he simply a beast and badass, i can't see him competing with Dooku on any level, other than hand-to-hand combat, which, face it, wouldn't last long as Dooku would likely just hit him with a force attack. Having said that, Ventrss is definitely no Dooku, and as I said earlier, Maul would simply take her out.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I have problems with the anoon "best duelest in teh orda" thing, yet again. Was the whole thing a writer not really thinking what he was saying, and just writing down something that would screw us over as far as darth maul goes, and make me wonder how in the heck they could have maul beat someone better than dooku and mace windu, and then have obi wan do the drastic, two second long move that caused him to die, when everything, mauls mastery of saber skills, his juyo, his knowledge of multiple martial arts, everything about him screamed for him not to get owned by a padawan. Well you have to think that just because his "skills" were second to none, doesn't mean that he could compete or actually duel at the same level as other Jedi. If he was that incredible, than surely he would have made it into a movie and had a bigger role overall. Of course that's my assumption, but I think it stands to reason.

Also, if Yoda is the most devastating foe ever known to the darkness, who was equal to Sidious and Mace was second only to Yoda, then obviously they're better. Anakin, he just turned Dooku's whole existence into a joke and was the chosen one, and then OB1 beat him (with luck) and was able to (rather was the one to face GG. So I would say even their applications with a saber would rank them above Anoon. I think that too much emphasis is put on that statement sometimes.

No, people fail to realize that Anoon was named the most skilled duelist prior to TPM; during the Clone Wars it is quite clear Jedi like Mace (and Yoda, since he is always regarded as his superior) would've progressed by a vast margin because of the war itself.

So Anoon being the best with a blade at that point in time really shouldn't cause any problems. By ROTS, it is likely Mace and others surpassed him.

I personally don't see a Jedi Master of eight centuries improving by a "vast" margin in the span of three years, especially since his combat against lightsaber-wielding opponents are few and far between.

I'm going to agree there, although I maintain that Yoda's vastly superior power would net him a pretty easy win against Anoon.

With the reemergence of the Sith and a major war, I think he would've wanted to hone his skills to the highest degree possible. There was no need to really focus on lightsaber combat before the movie saga anyways given the relative peace.

But that is entirely speculative, Advent. Given how modern weaponry has shifted from swords and spears to automatic rifles, there isn't any reason for fencing to exist. Yet it remains a somewhat popular martial art with numerous masters and highly talented combatants. One doesn't have to have an imminent reason to practice one's swordsmanship in order to maintain it, in real life or in Star Wars.

Originally posted by Advent
With the reemergence of the Sith and a major war, I think he would've wanted to hone his skills to the highest degree possible. There was no need to really focus on lightsaber combat before the movie saga anyways given the relative peace. i'm not too sure if anything yoda did during the CW would have been enough to drastically improve 800 some-odd years worth of saber/force skills. now had he done more than duel dooku once, slay droids, and block laser fire - i'd say you were on to something. but as it stands, there's really no reason for me to believe yoda's overall proficiency would have improved much beyond what it was during the time of TPM. to think otherwise is, imo, speculatory at best.

darth maul. his force powers would give him the edge.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well you have to think that just because his "skills" were second to none, doesn't mean that he could compete or actually duel at the same level as other Jedi. If he was that incredible, than surely he would have made it into a movie and had a bigger role overall. Of course that's my assumption, but I think it stands to reason.

Advent got to this before I could. Anoon died in 32 BBY, and TPM begins that year, several months after Anoon's death.



It's a pretty good possibility that Anoon was the Jedi Battlemaster before Cin Drallig, because in the book it mentions him being a lightsaber instructor at the temple, training and training Obi-Wan as a padawon in particular. He also died in 32 BBY, which is apparently the same year Drallig became Battlemaster (got that from Wookieepedia, take it with a grain of salt). He was also a master of Teras Kasi, just like Maul. But all that hardly matters when, if you recall, ROTS Vader defeated Cin Drallig one-handed while simultaneously Force Choking one of his padawons. So I think its clear that one can have peerless skill with a saber, yet be defeated by someone who is vastly superior in the Force.

Maul demonstrates the ability to practically walk through Force Lightning (perhaps around Dooku's strength?) and Force Choke to death a non-Force sensitive. Just because we don't see him use a lot of Force skills, doesn't mean we can say he's particularly weak in that area. Sidious personally trained him, afterall. He should be plenty fast enough to keep up with Dooku's bladework, the only thing he'd probably have trouble with is Dooku's amazing TK.



We saw what Sidious' speed was able to do to so called master swordsmen like Saesee Tiin and Kit Fisto. So I wouldn't necessarily say that Yoda is ever more skilled than Anoon with a blade, but that he's so much faster than Anoon that he would be able to defeat him, regardless. Mace is difficult to say, because Dooku was able to defeat him before he left the Order. So his position as #2 on the Council is probably due to a mix of his saber abilities, Force mastery, and insightful wisdom.

ventress
maul
maul

He did duel Dooku twice actually, he also dealt with some Dark Jedi as well. And I think being involved in battles with a deadly droid army is a bit more productive than meditating and teaching. Before AOTC, he would've been more devoted to training younglings, dealing with things diplomatically, etc. I think it's reasonable to say during relative peace - being the leader of the Jedi Order - there would be much more pressing issues than keeping your skills at the top of your game.

Gideon, a fencer would need to devote his/her life to his/her own art to truly be at their peak. Like, baseball teams practice a single play up to 500 times (or so my professor told us, lol!), football teams practice in the off-season/whatever it's called, and so on. If they focus on other aspects, their abilities would deteriorate. This is in real life and in Star Wars.

Like I said, the Sith returning/major conflict would require honing your skills to their best. The Sith are pretty much considered the greatest threat and there was no opposition that even came close to approaching Maul-Dooku-Sidious level. Maybe "vast" was a bit much, but I would still say he definitely improved by a fair degree.



Anoon is physically fit, he's stronger than Yoda at any rate and if you want to say he is more skilled, then so be it. He's also extremely attuned to the Force. If he is more talented though, I don't see how Yoda should be able to defeat him then.

Yoda is likely physically stronger than Anoon-until I see Anoon lifting giant, house sized guns at any rate, he's faster, with comparable blade skills at the very least, exceeds him in the Force and not for nothing was he declared the deadliest foe of the darkness in addition to fiercest and most powerful.

Anoon might hold the edge in technical skill, but in a real fight, Yoda would very likely take him down.

We're not talking about Force powers here, he's called the most powerful when all is accounted for. And he only lifts that box (which is about 12 feet in h-w actually) in an exaggerated setting. Even if he could do that normally, I don't see how Anoon Bondara couldn't (he lifts boulders with ease as a padawan and is described as immensely powerful in the Force) or how that proves Yoda has more physical strength.

Totally off-topic here, but I was a foil and saber fencer for six years, collected one gold and seven bronze medals - missed the Junior Olympics by 1 point two years in a row, and only practiced for two hours every Tuesday to do it.

Yeah. I gotz skillz. Me > Dooku.

Originally posted by Advent
We're not talking about Force powers here, he's called the most powerful when all is accounted for. And he only lifts that box (which is about 12 feet in h-w actually) in an exaggerated setting. Even if he could do that normally, I don't see how Anoon Bondara couldn't (he lifts boulders with ease as a padawan and is described as immensely powerful in the Force) or how that proves Yoda has more physical strength.

When all is accounted for? That does pretty much include Anoon and I highly doubt Yoda has increased in ability so greatly in just 13 years. And as for the exaggerated setting, to my knowledge, it's still just as valid. While Anoon is immensely powerful, Yoda has him beat by quite a bit in the Force.

Also to my knowledge, Anoon only appears in two books, and a few minor sources, in all of which he's already a master.

When is Anoon noted to be "immensely powerful"?

The part about Anoon lifting boulders with ease but not smaller objects as a padawan is mentioned in Shadow Hunter.

Originally posted by Enyalus


Totally off-topic here, but I was a foil and saber fencer for six years, collected one gold and seven bronze medals - missed the Junior Olympics by 1 point two years in a row, and only practiced for two hours every Tuesday to do it.

Yeah. I gotz skillz. Me > Dooku.

Wow. I'm impressed.

Originally posted by Faunus
When is Anoon noted to be "immensely powerful"?

I'm giving the benefit of a doubt...likely Shadow Hunter, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was. He was Battlemaster, after all

Just like Cin Draalig!

Wait... didn't Cin Drallig get OWNED by Anakin who was using one hand?


http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/41/CinDrallig.jpg

haermm

Though there's no shame in losing to Anakin.

When was it said that Anoon was battlemaster?

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
When was it said that Anoon was battlemaster? i don't believe it was ever specifically stated, but it was hinted at.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
When was it said that Anoon was battlemaster?

He wasn't flat out called the battlemaster, though in Cloak of Deception he is referred to as the lightsaber master by the narrator, and in the year that he died was the year Cin Drallig became battlemaster.

Darth Maul was a Dark Lord of the Sith, trained by Darth Sidious(the greatest sith master of all).

Ventress was a dark acolyte, trained by Dooku(the apprentice of Sidious).

I say Maul wins all three.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Darth Maul was a Dark Lord of the Sith, trained by Darth Sidious(the greatest sith master of all).

Ventress was a dark acolyte, trained by Dooku(the apprentice of Sidious).

I say Maul wins all three. As much as I agree with you, it's that A>B>C pattern of yours which you're being lambasted for elsewhere.

Originally posted by Tangible God
As much as I agree with you, it's that A>B>C pattern of yours which you're being lambasted for elsewhere.

No it is common sense. Darth Maul was trained to be a dark lord of the sith. Dark lords of the sith are said to be the most powerful practitioners of the dark side. Not only was he a dark lord, but also trained by the greatest dark lord of all. Put 2 and 2 together. His knowledge was surely greater than Ventress.

Ventress gets WRECKED, we're talking about a full Sith Apprentice who took on and killed one of the most powerful Masters in the Order, and then almost killed his Padawan; who I'd say is on par with CW series Anakin. Maul is at least on par with Grievous who owned Ventress and Durge at the same time. And if Durge a renowned Jedi killing invincible bounty hunter can't tip the tide in ventress' favor then she sure as hell can't beat maul single handedly. Ventress can't handle Skywalker b4 ROTS let alone the Dark Lord's hand

What would the kid be like(power and otherwide) if theysex013, assuming a cross-breed is possible.

...Bad serpent no sex spam!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No it is common sense.Stop f*cking say that already. You clearly have no idea what it is.

LoLZ kHommUN sens?!

I guess any one of Luke or Yoda's apprentices would kick the living shit out of Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, and Count Dooku, then.

Common sense my ass. You're an idiot.

Darth Maul was no scholar, he was a close-quarters-combat-oriented saboteur and assassin. While he certainly has access to a far wider range of sources than Ventress, it is she who has actually demonstrated the more notable Force abilities. Nearly Force-crushing Obi-Wan, almost destroying the heart of an incredibly powerful Jedi Master while nearly unconscious, and taking over the mind of a rancor are all feats that are far beyond Maul's demonstration of... knocking over Padawan Kenobi.

That said, Maul takes the duel for obvious reasons, and most likely takes the all-out as well. While, again, I doubt that he is more powerful than Ventress, his ability to completely resist lesser Force-lightning and his indisputably greater knowledge of the dark side could net him a win in the Force-battle. But S66, seriously, your arguments are almost enough to make me disagree with my own stance. You fail.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
What would the kid be like(power and otherwide) if theysex013, assuming a cross-breed is possible.

You really need to get out more.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
...Bad serpent no sex spam! Ouch... no plz don't hit me ,PLZ..

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You really need to get out more. But seriously, what would their kid be like?

Originally posted by Faunus
Stop f*cking say that already. You clearly have no idea what it is.

LoLZ kHommUN sens?!

I guess any one of Luke or Yoda's apprentices would kick the living shit out of Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, and Count Dooku, then.

Common sense my ass. You're an idiot.

Darth Maul was no scholar, he was a close-quarters-combat-oriented saboteur and assassin. While he certainly has access to a far wider range of sources than Ventress, it is she who has actually demonstrated the more notable Force abilities. Nearly Force-crushing Obi-Wan, almost destroying the heart of an incredibly powerful Jedi Master while nearly unconscious, and taking over the mind of a rancor are all feats that are far beyond Maul's demonstration of... knocking over Padawan Kenobi.

That said, Maul takes the duel for obvious reasons, and most likely takes the all-out as well. While, again, I doubt that he is more powerful than Ventress, his ability to completely resist lesser Force-lightning and his indisputably greater knowledge of the dark side could net him a win in the Force-battle. But S66, seriously, your arguments are almost enough to make me disagree with my own stance. You fail. Damn... that is Ownage.

Originally posted by Faunus
Stop f*cking say that already. You clearly have no idea what it is.

LoLZ kHommUN sens?!

I guess any one of Luke or Yoda's apprentices would kick the living shit out of Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, and Count Dooku, then.

Common sense my ass. You're an idiot.

Darth Maul was no scholar, he was a close-quarters-combat-oriented saboteur and assassin. While he certainly has access to a far wider range of sources than Ventress, it is she who has actually demonstrated the more notable Force abilities. Nearly Force-crushing Obi-Wan, almost destroying the heart of an incredibly powerful Jedi Master while nearly unconscious, and taking over the mind of a rancor are all feats that are far beyond Maul's demonstration of... knocking over Padawan Kenobi.

That said, Maul takes the duel for obvious reasons, and most likely takes the all-out as well. While, again, I doubt that he is more powerful than Ventress, his ability to completely resist lesser Force-lightning and his indisputably greater knowledge of the dark side could net him a win in the Force-battle. But S66, seriously, your arguments are almost enough to make me disagree with my own stance. You fail.
Well he did also kill an exceptionally experienced Jedi Master. Ventress got pwned by an AOTC Anakin with a DS boost: see CW series. And Obi-Wan danced around her in that new CW movie, toying with her. From that I draw the conclusion Maul>Ventress

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Well he did also kill an exceptionally experienced Jedi Master.Ventress killed seventeen Jedi by Dark Rendezvous, at least three of whom were exceptional or experienced Jedi Masters.

Anakin Skywalker in Dreadnaughts of Rendilli was being outperformed by her until he succumbed to the dark side. Obi-Wan a year into the Clone War lost to her, and was only given the chance for a comeback after Kit Fisto saved his ass.

Ahsoka Tano defeated three MagnaGuards in the new CW movie. Anakin about thirty seconds to take down one. Ahsoka also saves Anakin's with the Force. From that I draw the conclusion Ahsoka > Anakin.

Well not really but it is T-Canon above Dreadnoughts of Rendilli in canonicy so Obi-Wan dancing around her is for sure canon, whether you like it or not.

Originally posted by Faunus
Stop f*cking say that already. You clearly have no idea what it is.

LoLZ kHommUN sens?!

I guess any one of Luke or Yoda's apprentices would kick the living shit out of Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, and Count Dooku, then.

Common sense my ass. You're an idiot.

Darth Maul was no scholar, he was a close-quarters-combat-oriented saboteur and assassin. While he certainly has access to a far wider range of sources than Ventress, it is she who has actually demonstrated the more notable Force abilities. Nearly Force-crushing Obi-Wan, almost destroying the heart of an incredibly powerful Jedi Master while nearly unconscious, and taking over the mind of a rancor are all feats that are far beyond Maul's demonstration of... knocking over Padawan Kenobi.

That said, Maul takes the duel for obvious reasons, and most likely takes the all-out as well. While, again, I doubt that he is more powerful than Ventress, his ability to completely resist lesser Force-lightning and his indisputably greater knowledge of the dark side could net him a win in the Force-battle. But S66, seriously, your arguments are almost enough to make me disagree with my own stance. You fail.

For you to insult me over a debate about characters who do not exist makes you the biggest idiot of all. Im sure most of us are grown here am i correct? I haven't direspected you or anyone, so i don't deserve to be disrespected. I have seen people argue: " Well so and so would win because they look cooler", but im not going to call them names, and get mad over it. I would say that they were being silly.

As for Darth Maul. He has shown quite a bit of force techniques, such as resisting a lightning attack, resisting a telapathic intrusion and killing the telepath, dominating an assassin's mind who was about to shoot him, killing another assassin with force choke while levitating him in the air, and is also able to strengthen himself with pain.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
For you to insult me over a debate about characters who do not exist makes you the biggest idiot of all. Im sure most of us are grown here am i correct? I haven't direspected you or anyone, so i don't deserve to be disrespected. I have seen people argue: " Well so and so would win because they look cooler", but im not going to call them names, and get mad over it. I would say that they were being silly.Silly, stupid, idiotic. Call yourself whatever you'd like, but your "logic" - the kind based on your sad caricature of "common sense" - is retarded.

Not a Force-technique. He just took it with his body and managed to shrug off the pain.

The telepath died thanks to the hellhole of darkness and hatred that was Maul's mind.

Singular Force-attacks against mere mortals aren't impressive, really.

As can all Sith and the vast majority of dark siders.

Again, I agree that Maul wins. But your method of proving so was abominable.

@Faunus-Hey, at least I'm better than him.

Maul wins no matter how you look at it

A dark lord of lord is taught secrets and knowledge of the sith. Maul trained under Sidious for nearly all his life. Ventress was an acolyte who was maybe taught a little of sith secrets. Of course we see her take out more jedi she did fight during the clone wars.

If resisting the lightning attack did not require the force, then anyone with a high tolerance to pain can resist it. Besides it was said Darth Maul prefered pure physical dominance over his opponents, but that does not mean he was not strong in the force. You think Sidious depended on someone who was only great in dueling? No. Sidious was known to look for the best he can get.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
A dark lord of lord is taught secrets and knowledge of the sith. Maul trained under Sidious for nearly all his life. Ventress was an acolyte who was maybe taught a little of sith secrets. Of course we see her take out more jedi she did fight during the clone wars.

If resisting the lightning attack did not require the force, then anyone with a high tolerance to pain can resist it. Besides it was said Darth Maul prefered pure physical dominance over his opponents, but that does not mean he was not strong in the force. You think Sidious depended on someone who was only great in dueling? No. Sidious was known to look for the best he can get. Your contributions toward Maul help the arguements for his victory like BET and Spike Lee contributions improve how the rest of America views black people.

So please, just stop.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Your contributions toward Maul help the arguements for his victory like BET and Spike Lee contributions improve how the rest of America views black people.
....Unnecessary....but admittedly funny like Sparkling wiggles.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
....Unnecessary....but admittedly funny like Sparkling wiggles. What are sparkling wiggles?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrFRbHMrurk
a white supremesis' dream

Not quite. Can please tell me how it is the same? You can not judge a race unless you know them all.

Im pointing out reasons i think Maul would win.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not quite. Can please tell me how it is the same? You can not judge a race unless you know them all.

Im pointing out reasons i think Maul would win.
sparkling wiggles is ridiclous as are serpents comments

For what it's worth, Palpatine regarded Ventress as "a competent warrior, nothing more or less."

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
For you to insult me over a debate about characters who do not exist makes you the biggest idiot of all. Im sure most of us are grown here am i correct? I haven't direspected you or anyone, so i don't deserve to be disrespected. I have seen people argue: " Well so and so would win because they look cooler", but im not going to call them names, and get mad over it. I would say that they were being silly.

As for Darth Maul. He has shown quite a bit of force techniques, such as resisting a lightning attack, resisting a telapathic intrusion and killing the telepath, dominating an assassin's mind who was about to shoot him, killing another assassin with force choke while levitating him in the air, and is also able to strengthen himself with pain. If you've been here as long as some of us, you come to despise stupidity, not tolerate it, regardless of what you're discussing is fiction or fact.

And while Maul may have such a resume, it doesn't match Ventresses.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You really need to get out more. fckyoubarksfuwhooshnutkickbslapWhat we want to do to you and think of you...

budoemot-vsuicidePlease do this to yourself.

When someone gets mad and starts insulting people over star wars it makes them out to be childish, no matter how long you been here.

It was said Maul prefered pure PHYSICAL(meaning without too much use of the force) dominance over his victims. Him not using the force as much does not prove Ventress was more powerful, it only proves that he chose not to use the force as much, due to his pure dominance method. Most can assume that since he was trained by Darth Sidious, that he knew far more techniques of the dark side then he showed. Again this is where common sense comes in hand.

Come on guys stop getting so mad. It is not like we are talking about each others moms. We are debating on a fictional universe that we all love.

Originally posted by Tangible God
If you've been here as long as some of us, you come to despise stupidity, not tolerate it, regardless of what you're discussing is fiction or fact.

And while Maul may have such a resume, it doesn't match Ventresses.

Stupidity? Most star wars fans i know would laugh in your face for saying Mauls resume does not match Ventress's. Which is funny if you think about it. Im not getting mad at how stupid the statement sounded. For me to get mad would be even more funny.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Come on guys stop getting so mad. It is not like we are talking about each others moms. We are debating on a fictional universe that we all love. Like. And I don't care if I'm debating my only child, if they start saying ridicolous shit, I'm gonna get mad.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Stupidity? Most star wars fans i know would laugh in your face for saying Mauls resume does not match Ventress's. Which is funny if you think about it. Im not getting mad at how stupid the statement sounded. For me to get mad would be even more funny. Maul's Force resume. See Faunus for further details.

Ok this thread has become a flaming spam war I'm going to request it to be closed

Well getting mad over something that does not matter in the real world proves how childish you are.

Ventress's force resume has not proven to be more than Maul's. They have both show us force throw, force crush, mental manipulations etc. Exept Maul is known to not use his force powers as much, due to his pure-diminance method. What don't you guys get? It clearly states Maul does not like to use higher sith techniques. Not that he couldn't, but because he chose not to.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
fckyoubarksfuwhooshnutkickbslapWhat we want to do to you and think of you...

budoemot-vsuicidePlease do this to yourself.

Lol really? Sorry but coming from someone i don't know and really don't care about, has no affect on me what so ever.

Originally posted by Gideon
For what it's worth, Palpatine regarded Ventress as "a competent warrior, nothing more or less."

Do you have a photographic memory? Do you make this up? Do you have a sheet with a list of SW quotes on it?

Wow.










*is impressed*

^^^
seconded

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well getting mad over something that does not matter in the real world proves how childish you are.

Ventress's force resume has not proven to be more than Maul's. They have both show us force throw, force crush, mental manipulations etc. Exept Maul is known to not use his force powers as much, due to his pure-diminance method. What don't you guys get? It clearly states Maul does not like to use higher sith techniques. Not that he couldn't, but because he chose not to.

So your argument is "Maul has better force abilities but he just doesn't show them"? Debates don't work that way.

I said that they were shown using just about the same force powers. It was stated that Maul did not like to rely on the force to win battles, he prefered pure physical dominance. Now if they showed us just about the same force attacks, but Maul held back at using the force, and Ventress didn't, then it would make sense that Maul was more powerful.

Most of the arguements for Ventress is "Well she killed more jedi". If that makes her more powerful than Maul, that means she is more powerful than Sidious. It would also make Vader stronger than Sidious.

Ventress fought more jedi because she fought during the clone wars. She had to use more force powers because she fought against more force sensitives than Maul.

^^^^Although some of your points I disagree with, that is true GG killed dozens of Jedi making him the most powerful villain of the PT era lol....But he makes a good point, we don't know how powerful the Jedi Ventress killed were but we do know none were on par with Qui-Gon who was regarded being on par with TPM Windu. Now I believe even before Vaapad Mace was superior to any other Master, save Yoda and Dooku.

No one said "She killed mroe Jedi so she's better".

You stated that Maul killed an exceptional Jedi, and sued that in your argument. The opposing side stated that Ventress killed more exceptional Jedi. Thus, saying that "Maul killed an exceptional Jedi" does not hold much water. At all.

And GG would wreck both of them, for the record.

I never threw " Maul killed an exeptional jedi" in my arguement. However i do think that if he managed to kill Qui-Gon he could have killed the jedi Ventress killed. Qui-Gon was one of the greatest in the order, and could have been on the council.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I never threw " Maul killed an exeptional jedi" in my arguement. However i do think that if he managed to kill Qui-Gon he could have killed the jedi Ventress killed. Qui-Gon was one of the greatest in the order, and could have been on the council. And Maul would out-duel Ventress in a saber contest. However, with the Force, she's got him beat.

Originally posted by Tangible God
And Maul would out-duel Ventress in a saber contest. However, with the Force, she's got him beat.

Can you prove it. Don't say because she was shown using more force techniques than Maul, because like i already proved Darth Maul prefers not to use the force as much. You might as well say Jerec was more powerful than Vader, because he has shown that he was able to do things Vader has not done.

Lol and you say i use A>B>C logic.

Maul did kill a guy with nothing but a grasp of his hand.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And GG would wreck both of them, for the record.

I call BS on that. Maul would best GG, too. Presumably, though, he'd resort to using some force attacks. But I can see him winning just by sabers, as well.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrFRbHMrurk
a white supremesis' dream So,soo wrong and so, soo funny.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I call BS on that. Maul would best GG, too. Presumably, though, he'd resort to using some force attacks. But I can see him winning just by sabers, as well.

I agree

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrFRbHMrurk
a white supremesis' dream

Very sick minded people. People like that need to be locked up somewhere and starved to death.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I call BS on that. Maul would best GG, too. Presumably, though, he'd resort to using some force attacks. But I can see him winning just by sabers, as well.

Maul will never defeat GG with just lightsabers.

Never.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Maul will never defeat GG with just lightsabers.

Never.

But someone like Obi-Wan could? Pfft.

oh. haha. I get it. You were being sarcastic.

The 'deadliest Sith apprentice in history' > any version of Obi-Wan. And by A>B>C logic, General Grevious.

Obi Wan oly killed Maul because he caught Maul by surprise, which would really be Mauls fault for being to arrogant. As far as the saber duel Maul completely dominated both Obi Wan and Qui Gon.