Sephiroth Vs. Archimonde

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Diamond Kisses
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/Sephiroth.png

Sephiroth Rules:
- No Lifestream
- No Rebirth
- No Time magic (Although Archimonde is speculated immune)
- No Planet busting (I have no idea if he can do this or not, but I am adding the rule anyway)

Archimonde Rules:
- No Finger of Death
- No Hand of Death
- No Invulnerability (High endurance instead)
- No Summonings
- No Soul magic
- No Future sight (Although no such ability is verified, he has been speculated to have it. Not in this fight however)

Setting:
- Mount Hyjal

General Rules:
- Neither one knows anything about the enemy
- They will follow characteristic/personality behaviour
- The area is indestructable, so nothing in the area can be destroyed (Except for the fighters)
- Game Mechanics are not allowed

http://images.wikia.com/wowwiki/images/d/dc/Archimonde%27sEnd.JPG

Burning thought
Archimonde without a doubt, he is less likeyl to allow his foe time enough to realise his own weaknesses and Archimondes intellect is enomrous, i think this is a game of wits and without any lifestream whats Sephiroth even going to use? his sword? please....

Archimodne rips him to pieces just like Kiljaeden does to Ner'zhuel

Diamond Kisses
I thought Sephiroth had a lot of options even without lifestream. He has speed, agility and teleportation over Archimonde. Archimonde is stronger and more powerful, but I imagined the two would even eachother out.

Utrigita
Archimonde has teleportation too and what does high speed and agility help you when you cannot hurt you opponent? All Sephiroth in my opinion can hope for is a longe battle, until Archimonde get tired of him, incapacites him with demonic flames, steps in and break his neck.

Obsidian Fury
Archimonde stomps Sephiroth.

Litteraly

Becci
You decided against Sephiroth's only hope for survival.

Diamond Kisses
I removed the most powerful ability of both in hope that it would even things out. Did not count on it turning out to be spite anyway stick out tongue

Obsidian Fury
Yeah, well, the removal of Finger of Death was a necessity stick out tongue "Instantly kills the target" aint a very popular debate ability.

Seer Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/Sephiroth.png

Sephiroth Rules:
- No Lifestream
- No Rebirth
- No Time magic (Although Archimonde is speculated immune)
- No Planet busting (I have no idea if he can do this or not, but I am adding the rule anyway)

Archimonde Rules:
- No Finger of Death
- No Hand of Death
- No Invulnerability (High endurance instead)
- No Summonings
- No Soul magic
- No Future sight (Although no such ability is verified, he has been speculated to have it. Not in this fight however)

Setting:
- Mount Hyjal

General Rules:
- Neither one knows anything about the enemy
- They will follow characteristic/personality behaviour
- The area is indestructable, so nothing in the area can be destroyed (Except for the fighters)
- Game Mechanics are not allowed

http://images.wikia.com/wowwiki/images/d/dc/Archimonde%27sEnd.JPG

This is how the fight will go down: Archimonde grows to his full size, large enough to have the slashes from Sephiroth only tickle him (Titan size), or simply graps him with telekinesis and throws him away from the mountain. He then walks over to the World Tree, since the battle takes place on Hyjal. He absorbs the essence of Eternity and turns Sephiroth to his personal puppet. Shortly after, goes all "world domination", before squeezing information out of Sephiroth to from where he comes, then proceeds by teleporting himself into the world of Final Fantasy and conquers it completely.

He then bounces from game to game, absorbing all sorts of empowerments and eventually has a new universe order, with various lieutenants from various games. Sephiroth on the other hand gets encased inside a frozen prison of ice from the other side of the twisting nether, in which he lives a life in servitude to Archimonde.

Seer Q'Anilia
Oh, and he'll bring Broxxigar back from the dead, empowering him to make him the God he was always meant to be raver

Diamond Kisses
laughing out loud

Oh and yeah. Brox's death stinks.

TricksterPriest
this isn't a fight. It's a slaughter. Archie will make what he did to Ner'zhul look like a english tea party.

Seer Q'Anilia
Allowing Archimonde magic, shapeshifting and TK kinda settled the score in this fight early on. I do think that he would go for the essence of Eternity before killing Sephiroth though. That could work in Sephiroth's advantage.

But if Archimonde take full size, can Sephiroth even harm him? Despite the removed invulnerability.

Diamond Kisses
What fascinates me is that no one has come to stand up for Sephiroth.

Blax_Hydralisk
Originally posted by Seer Q'Anilia


He then bounces from game to game, absorbing all sorts of empowerments and eventually has a new universe order, with various lieutenants from various games. Sephiroth on the other hand gets encased inside a frozen prison of ice from the other side of the twisting nether, in which he lives a life in servitude to Archimonde.


He gets stopped at Master Chief's universe.

Seer Q'Anilia
Yeah .. right roll eyes (sarcastic) Well .. a Halo blast would be painful.

Blax_Hydralisk
Originally posted by Seer Q'Anilia
Yeah .. right roll eyes (sarcastic) Well .. a Halo blast would be painful.

halo?

Master Chief wouldn't use the Halo. He doesn't need the Halo to kill him.

Seer Q'Anilia
And here I was imagining a 'kick the baby' scenario, only with Master Chief instead.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Seer Q'Anilia
He then bounces from game to game, absorbing all sorts of empowerments and eventually has a new universe order, with various lieutenants from various games. Sephiroth on the other hand gets encased inside a frozen prison of ice from the other side of the twisting nether, in which he lives a life in servitude to Archimonde. I agree Sephiroth would lose, but their are characters in FF that can easily crush Arichmonde, and some that would give him a good fight.

Blax_Hydralisk
Originally posted by Seer Q'Anilia
And here I was imagining a 'kick the baby' scenario, only with Master Chief instead.

As hilarious as kicking a baby sounds, and I do know where you got that from ( laughing out loud ). I feel sorry for anyone who isn't apart of the UNSC or Arbiter's boys that is caught in UNSC space. Archimonde would get slaughtered by the Chief alone.

I don't think you understand the Chief. John only needs one thing: ee needs a weapon. If you give him a weapon, everything dies.

Dark-Jaxx
The fvck you talkin about? MC doesn't need no "weapon", shit.

Blax_Hydralisk
In Halo 2 he even admitted he does. "I need a weapon."

But the weapon can be anything. A broken off broom stick would probably be all that is required to take down the likes of Sephiroth and Archie.

Or better yet, he'd ride a nuclear warhead into the lifestream, then jump off at the last second.

Seer Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I agree Sephiroth would lose, but their are characters in FF that can easily crush Arichmonde, and some that would give him a good fight.

After he had absorbed the essence of Eternity?

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
As hilarious as kicking a baby sounds, and I do know where you got that from ( laughing out loud ). I feel sorry for anyone who isn't apart of the UNSC or Arbiter's boys that is caught in UNSC space. Archimonde would get slaughtered by the Chief alone.

I don't think you understand the Chief. John only needs one thing: ee needs a weapon. If you give him a weapon, everything dies.

So the rumors says. I just have chosen not to believe in them, as the true fangirl of Archimonde as I am raver

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Seer Q'Anilia
After he had absorbed the essence of Eternity? Considering some in FF have absorbed all of reality and time, yeah.

Btw, you remind me alot of someone I met on a forum. mmm

Seer Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Btw, you remind me alot of someone I met on a forum. mmm

Of course you do. I can't remember us having met elsewhere.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Seer Q'Anilia
Of course you do. I can't remember us having met elsewhere. No, I mean the general way you post and your personality reminds me of a former forum goer. Lol.

Seer Q'Anilia
I guess I just have that kind of .. face roll eyes (sarcastic)

Dark-Jaxx
But I haven't seen your face.

Or have I? shifty

Seer Q'Anilia
How would I know? shifty

Dark-Jaxx
You would only know if I wanted you to.

Or...Would you? shifty

Seer Q'Anilia
- Ready Archimonde? Kick the stranger!
- Dont kick the stranger
- KICK THE STRANGER
*Pow*

Blax_Hydralisk
*Gets blasted through the window*

SHM
Originally posted by Seer Q'Anilia
This is how the fight will go down: Archimonde grows to his full size, large enough to have the slashes from Sephiroth only tickle him (Titan size), and then Sephiroth turns intangible, phase through his giant body, and kills him from inside.

Fixed for you.

Blax_Hydralisk
If Archie grows so large that the sword only tickles, it can't even cut his skin at all, then going inside of him won't do anything either, otherwise chicken bones and what not could kill you, which they can't.

MadMel
seph's big intangibility feat is him rising through a floor SLOWLY

even if seph pulls it off, so what? i thought archie was immune to most physical attacks erm

Seer Q'Anilia
Originally posted by SHM
Fixed for you.

Because Archimonde can't fight intangible targets, right? Oh wait, he CAN! oh

And what if Archimonde shapeshift into a smaller size with Sephiroth inside him? It'll crush Sephiroth. Like a bug. Against a motorcykel helmet.

Seer Q'Anilia
Originally posted by MadMel
seph's big intangibility feat is him rising through a floor SLOWLY

even if seph pulls it off, so what? i thought archie was immune to most physical attacks erm

He is stick out tongue Thread creator had to remove his invulnerability. We don't want to make things too easy, do we? wink Not that it really matters.

Diamond Kisses
Originally posted by SHM
Fixed for you.

Would Sephiroth really do that? To me, Sephiroth has always seemed like the kind of person that attack people heads on.

Burning thought
exacltey thats my looking at it, or the guy stands and watches and doesnt do anything until attacked, which ofc if Archimonde attacks and sephiroth isnt doing anything hes toast. I dont think SHM read the threads start and rules.

Diamond Kisses
I do believe in Seer's idea though. Archimonde wouldn't care about Sephiroth immediately. He would turn and walk towards the tree. I never thought about that when I selected setting stick out tongue

Anyway, after further consideration, I do realise that this thread is slightly unfair. Sephiroth without the Lifestream is not Archimonde's weight class.

Seer Q'Anilia
Dear, Sephiroth WITH lifestream is barely Archimonde's "weight class" stick out tongue

Dark-Jaxx
Sephiroth has NEVER used intangibility in battle, the single time he ever has used intangibility, he slowly went through a floor, and here is the kicker, that wasn't actually Sephiroth.

Seer Q'Anilia
So simply put, it is not part of his personality to use it in battle. Then he's screwed stick out tongue (He was anyway, but you get my point)

Dark-Jaxx
Not only is it not in his character, it isn't even practical for use in battle.

Oh and before SHM says it, Sephiroth has never revived his whole body from a few mere cells. Just giving you the heads up. stick out tongue

Seer Q'Anilia
Resurrection is removed in this fight anyway stick out tongue

Dark-Jaxx
That wouldn't be resurrection, that would be a healing factor my dear. big grin

Seer Q'Anilia
Then he'll just have to incinerate him again roll eyes (sarcastic)

Seer Q'Anilia
Archimonde is an immortal. He can keep it going. Until he has absorbed Eternity, and will just swipe Sephiroth out of existance (Litteraly)

Dark-Jaxx
Or he could just step on him. Lol.

Seer Q'Anilia
Like a used cigaret roll eyes (sarcastic)

Terryc250
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Sephiroth has NEVER used intangibility in battle, the single time he ever has used intangibility, he slowly went through a floor, and here is the kicker, that wasn't actually Sephiroth.

.. Just because he didn't use it in the last gameplay fight doesn't mean he can't use it in a battle, if he do it, he can do it, that simple.. just because you see a person walk doesn't mean he can't run, anyway after he killed aeris he shot through the roof and into the air in a split second.

Seer Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Terryc250
.. Just because he didn't use it in the last gameplay fight doesn't mean he can't use it in a battle, if he do it, he can do it, that simple.. just because you see a person walk doesn't mean he can't run, anyway after he killed aeris he shot through the roof and into the air in a split second.

But would he really? I have always seen Sephiroth as the kind of guy that rely on swordsmanship and combat over tactics. He would first of all have to figure that Archimonde can not be beat right on, before he start thinking of some plan that would work. Then he would also have to try get the courage to actually ENTER Archimonde.

Schwarzenegger
Originally posted by Terryc250
.. Just because he didn't use it in the last gameplay fight doesn't mean he can't use it in a battle, if he do it, he can do it, that simple.. just because you see a person walk doesn't mean he can't run, anyway after he killed aeris he shot through the roof and into the air in a split second. If he could then why didn't he use it against the final battle in FFVII? Why didn't he use it before cloud omnislashed his ass in AC?


Face it, sephicock isn't as powd3rfool as you wan't him to be.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Terryc250
.. Just because he didn't use it in the last gameplay fight doesn't mean he can't use it in a battle, if he do it, he can do it, that simple.. just because you see a person walk doesn't mean he can't run, anyway after he killed aeris he shot through the roof and into the air in a split second. If he never used it in battle(even when it would clearly save his ass from Cloud), why assume he can? Face it, there were MANY times using intangibility would have saved him, but he didn't use it.

Either Sephiroth is too stupid to use this "awesome" powerset you seem to think he has, or he can't use it in a fight.

Seer Q'Anilia
Wether he can or can not use it does not really matter. He regulary does not use it during combat, which is reason enough that he would not use it early on in the fight against Archimonde. Assuming he lives trough the first minute, he might realise that his only way to survive the battle is to keep away, and might intangle himself away from the battlefield.

Diamond Kisses
Originally posted by Terryc250
.. Just because he didn't use it in the last gameplay fight doesn't mean he can't use it in a battle, if he do it, he can do it, that simple.. just because you see a person walk doesn't mean he can't run, anyway after he killed aeris he shot through the roof and into the air in a split second.

This ability of his might require vast focus and concentration for all we know, and might even be strainful. Not to mention, if it is the scene I think it is, it is an incredibly slow move. While Sephiroth was slowly making his way towards Archimonde, Archimonde would just go about absorbing the tree roll eyes (sarcastic)

leonheartmm
urgh, warcraft. sephiroth kills him just cause i say so! cause warcraft is puny!!!!!!

DarkC
Originally posted by leonheartmm
urgh, warcraft. sephiroth kills him just cause i say so! cause warcraft is puny!!!!!!
Here, throw up in the Fanboy Bucket instead!

http://www.artstorm.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2004/09/3df10m_bucket.jpg

Seer Q'Anilia
Eye of the Beholder. No matter how you look on Warcraft, Sephiroth will fail this fight utterly, despite all of Archimonde's limitations.

Utrigita
Especially since Archimonde has the powerset to attack a person with, at least the warcraft version of, intangibility

Solid Durandal
Spite In Archie's favor.

Seer Q'Anilia
Yeah. That's pretty much the conclusion we've all made stick out tongue

Terryc250
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
If he never used it in battle(even when it would clearly save his ass from Cloud), why assume he can? Face it, there were MANY times using intangibility would have saved him, but he didn't use it.

Either Sephiroth is too stupid to use this "awesome" powerset you seem to think he has, or he can't use it in a fight.
Umm no there wasn't, the battle in FF7 is GAMEPLAY, you wouldnt be seeing Safer Sephiroth using it, asking why Sephiroth didn't use it in AC is idiotic, Sephiroth didn't use ANY powers in AC (except for a little bit of TK to drop the building on Cloud) clearly because he wanted to torment and toy around with Cloud

Again, just because he obviously refused to use his powers in a fight doesn't mean he's unable to do it, if he was shown he was able to do it, then he is.

Becci
It does not matter anyway. Unless he phase completely out of existance like the warcraft Fairie Dragons when he becomes intangible, he is not safe while doing so.

Even then, two obstacles gets in his way. First obstacle being that the intangible move is rather slow. Secondly, he wouldnt jump intangible immediately. He knows too little about Archimonde to know that he'd have to go intangible in order to survive.

Terryc250
That statement of intangeability being "slow" is a false statement, just because you see a person walk, doesn't mean that person cannot run.

After Sephiroth killed Aeris, he simply flew up and shot up through the roof and dissappeaerd in a second.

Blax_Hydralisk
Originally posted by Terryc250
That statement of intangeability being "slow" is a false statement, just because you see a person walk, doesn't mean that person cannot run.

But if you've never seen someone run then you can make an argument in a debate that it is because they can't. That's... how debates work. Saying that Sepihorth can phase quickly, even though we've never seen him do so, would be a limitless fallacy, even if it is probable, or makes sense.

Becci
Originally posted by Becci
It does not matter anyway. Unless he phase completely out of existance like the warcraft Fairie Dragons when he becomes intangible, he is not safe while doing so.

Even then, two obstacles gets in his way. First obstacle being that the intangible move is rather slow. Secondly, he wouldnt jump intangible immediately. He knows too little about Archimonde to know that he'd have to go intangible in order to survive.

Yeah, and Archimonde has never been defeated by anything else than nature magic, so we should just assume that he is unkillable to anyone who does not master nature magic to a massive extent.

fascistcrusader
This is a spite thread. We all know that characters from WoW are extraordinarily weak when compared to FF VII characters, Sephiroth would blink and Archimonde would be erased from existence.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
But if you've never seen someone run then you can make an argument in a debate that it is because they can't. That's... how debates work. Saying that Sepihorth can phase quickly, even though we've never seen him do so, would be a limitless fallacy, even if it is probable, or makes sense.
I'm saying this because people are making a statement that Sephiroth phasing IS slow, i'm saying you cannot make a judgement like that.

Becci
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
This is a spite thread. We all know that characters from WoW are extraordinarily weak when compared to FF VII characters, Sephiroth would blink and Archimonde would be erased from existence.

Save for Ultimecia, has anyone been implicated to have the power to erase people from existance?

Originally posted by Terryc250
I'm saying this because people are making a statement that Sephiroth phasing IS slow, i'm saying you cannot make a judgement like that.

It has been seen going slow, but it has never been seen going fast. That justifies a claim that says it is a slow move. You can not prove it can also go fast, only speculate. Anyone can prove that it goes slow. You just lack a way to counter it with solid proof. All you have is logic (Which does not always go hand-to-hand with fantasy/sci-fi)

Solid Durandal
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
This is a spite thread. We all know that characters from WoW are extraordinarily weak when compared to FF VII characters, Sephiroth would blink and Archimonde would be erased from existence.

And when has Sephiroth ever been shown to be able to do something like that.

Becci
Originally posted by Solid Durandal
And when has Sephiroth ever been shown to be able to do something like that.

He hasnt. He is just baiting. He is clueless of the Warcraft universe.

fascistcrusader
I'm afraid I know more abut Warcraft than you do, sorry. sad

Archimonde was pwned by a pathetic human mage, a SOLDIER 3rd witha decent materia set would crush all of WoW in one blow.

Sephiroth has never shown us even 1% of his total power, and even with just that he can destroy planets easily. He wouldn't have to do anything, Archimonde would get close to Sephiroth nd the power radiating from him would kill Archi.

Becci
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I'm afraid I know more abut Warcraft than you do, sorry. sad

Archimonde was pwned by a pathetic human mage, a SOLDIER 3rd witha decent materia set would crush all of WoW in one blow.

Sephiroth has never shown us even 1% of his total power, and even with just that he can destroy planets easily. He wouldn't have to do anything, Archimonde would get close to Sephiroth nd the power radiating from him would kill Archi.

Pwned by a human mage? Don't make me laugh.

Burning thought
as soon as he said that its obvious he doesnt know anything and as soon as he said Sephiroth at 1% which isnt even a official figuire anywhere it shows he knows nothing on FF lol, bait and troll, ime not sure how he is still on the forums with this carry on

Peach
Post relevantly and on-topic or don't post at all.

Becci
Originally posted by Burning thought
as soon as he said that its obvious he doesnt know anything and as soon as he said Sephiroth at 1% which isnt even a official figuire anywhere it shows he knows nothing on FF lol, bait and troll, ime not sure how he is still on the forums with this carry on

The closest thing to human mage I can recall Archimonde has "fought" is Rhonin. And, well, Rhonin aint stupid. He wouldnt go up against Archimonde mano-tu-mano stick out tongue Save for the Guardian Aegwynn, Archimonde easily dwarfs the powers of any human.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Becci
It has been seen going slow, but it has never been seen going fast. That justifies a claim that says it is a slow move. You can not prove it can also go fast, only speculate. Anyone can prove that it goes slow. You just lack a way to counter it with solid proof. All you have is logic (Which does not always go hand-to-hand with fantasy/sci-fi)
.. Because it was seen like once, seriously throughout 100% of FF7 game, Sephiroth is walking/flying, does that mean he's only capable of walking and flying? It was the first time you see Sephiroth in the game, he appeared coming up through the ground and slowly floated in the air, if your intangeable, you're intangeable, he was flying slowly hence why he was slow at the time. Theres no reason to claim that his intangeability means hes 100% slow.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Becci
Save for the Guardian Aegwynn, Archimonde easily dwarfs the powers of any human.

And he most likely dwarfs her too...

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Archimonde was pwned by a pathetic human mage Now you are clearly trolling. You have done it so much, you have screwed up your trolling tactics. Remember, this is exactly what he used to say about Sargeras, and Archi has never been killed by any kinda mage.

Sephiroth's intangibility has only been shown to be a slow type of intangibility, only good for going through walls or floors, but we must assume he can do it fast? Lol.

Oh, and in FFVII: AC, I suppose that not using his intangibility to avoid the Omnislash V.5 was just an attempt to "torture" Cloud lol.

Humorous stuff.

Seer Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Now you are clearly trolling. You have done it so much, you have screwed up your trolling tactics. Remember, this is exactly what he used to say about Sargeras, and Archi has never been killed by any kinda mage.

Sephiroth's intangibility has only been shown to be a slow type of intangibility, only good for going through walls or floors, but we must assume he can do it fast? Lol.

Oh, and in FFVII: AC, I suppose that not using his intangibility to avoid the Omnislash V.5 was just an attempt to "torture" Cloud lol.

Humorous stuff.

The closest thing to a "mage" that has defeated Archimonde (Note defeated, not killed), was Malfurion when he was bloodlusted (Bloodlusted as in "You've killed the Demi-Gods of Azeroth, my beloved master, your conquering the world, you've corrupted my brother, but your NOT reaching this well"wink. And all he did was cause annoyance to Archimonde, who decided to retreat rather than deal with the issue. After all, Archimonde had just slained all the Demi-Gods of Azeroth. There was no reason for him to stick around stick out tongue

Becci
You make Malfurion sound more impressive than he was. Malfurion when he got enraged smothered Archimonde in roots from the earth. He did prevent Archimonde from moving, but it wasnt an actual defeat. As you said, it was more of an annoyance. I'd rather call what actions Archimonde took then as "tactical maneuver" than "fleeing".

As you said, Archimonde had just brought down every Demi-God on Azeroth. He was more than satisfied with the battle. He was indeed going for the finishline, but who can blame him for not going trough with it. Whichever way you look on the battle, Archimonde had already won. The final line of defense was down and the Moon Guards was pretty much just a matter of time.

Malfurion, Rhonin, Krasus and the others knew this. They knew they were screwed, and so did Archimonde. What neither one of the two sides expected, was that the flights would come for assistance. Had they not come, Archimonde would have brought down the Moon Guards. Their arrival forced an alternative strategy, which resulted in their demise.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Oh, and in FFVII: AC, I suppose that not using his intangibility to avoid the Omnislash V.5 was just an attempt to "torture" Cloud lol.

For obvious PIS purposes he was caught off guard, and Omnislash as stated by the RF, it happens in the blink of an eye.

Becci
Is there a magical touch to omni-slash, or is it just a lot of physical slashes in a very fast pace?

Terryc250
No one knows, its just a PIS move, its not physical, most likely spirit.

Becci
I do not know how many incarnations of Sephiroth there is, but has he ever died in battle? I mean, without "PIS" being involved

Schwarzenegger
Originally posted by Terryc250
No one knows, its just a PIS move, its not physical, most likely spirit.

Becci
Reported for baiting, bashing and being off-topic.

General Kaliero
Schwarzie, you know we don't tolerate such behavior around here, thanks.

Don't do it again.

DarkC
Originally posted by Becci
You make Malfurion sound more impressive than he was. Malfurion when he got enraged smothered Archimonde in roots from the earth. He did prevent Archimonde from moving, but it wasnt an actual defeat. As you said, it was more of an annoyance. I'd rather call what actions Archimonde took then as "tactical maneuver" than "fleeing".

As you said, Archimonde had just brought down every Demi-God on Azeroth. He was more than satisfied with the battle. He was indeed going for the finishline, but who can blame him for not going trough with it. Whichever way you look on the battle, Archimonde had already won. The final line of defense was down and the Moon Guards was pretty much just a matter of time.

Malfurion, Rhonin, Krasus and the others knew this. They knew they were screwed, and so did Archimonde. What neither one of the two sides expected, was that the flights would come for assistance. Had they not come, Archimonde would have brought down the Moon Guards. Their arrival forced an alternative strategy, which resulted in their demise.
No, otherwise he would have just teleported away anyway.


Remember, Malfurion's pretty much embodied with the strength of the planet itself, if Archimonde had not teleported he would have been owned, likely turned into a tree like Xavius was; that was a clear defeat on his part.

Becci
I will try find the exact page, but from how I recall it, according to the narrator, Archimonde was just frustrated over the hinderance and that he could not move.

Indeed, a bloodlusted druid aint someone you want as an enemy. Xavius learnt that the hard way. Twice. I will look up the page where Malfurion used fury against Archimonde, and I'll write down the exact words. Seems I need to refreshen my memories.

Utrigita
I must admit DarkC I'm with Becci on this one, sure Archimonde was the one that gave ground, but he left a battlefield having robbed the Night Elfes of there most powerful Demigod, also if I recall correctly Archimonde didn't at any time engage Malfurion in battle, the veins growed around him he ripped them away then they come again, he then teleported away, granted, but he could have teleported a few clicks away, have cast immolate and burned away the veins and have fried Malfurion with a finger of death ore ripped him apart with telekinese. From my point of view he didn't because was no reason for Archimonde to stay behind and risk anything all demigods where dead ore incapacitated what was left was from his perspective most likely only a clean up.

just my quiet opinion from the side line

Becci
While I was searching for the page, I found something interesting that might grant a sample of Archimonde's magical extent.

According to the narrator of The Sundering, Archimonde actually barried the Emerald Dream out of certain zones. Which means that Archimonde pretty much has cross-dimensional abilities. He did not want the druids of the Emerald Dream to snoop around.

Or am I wrong?

Utrigita
In truth I cannot recall and canno check but that would mean that Archimonde basically shuts down Yseras control over her own realm... Insane...

Schwarzenegger
Originally posted by Becci
Reported for baiting, bashing and being off-topic. LOL.

DarkC
Granted it was a hindrance at first, or what Archimonde said, but when the vines kept strangling him without any pause despite his efforts, the book described his efforts as "growing ever frantic", despite his normal face. Considering that his face remains impassive most of the time anyways, I would say that this was him starting to give.

As Utrigita said, he teleported away not wanting to risk anything - which basically meant "saving his own skin". He could have easily came back and wiped everyone. At least he marked Malfurion for later.

He did bar the palace from the Emerald Dream - but it doesn't really mean too much of his power. Think of it as a ward. Even if it was a standard ward against demons, Sargeras would still have trouble breaking through despite being a god (as shown in The Last Guardian). I wouldn't take it so far as to say that he shut down Ysera's control over that realm, because Malfurion did nothing to ask her to go check it out - she probably just didn't notice or care.

Becci
Originally posted by Utrigita
In truth I cannot recall and canno check but that would mean that Archimonde basically shuts down Yseras control over her own realm... Insane...

It said he had created a barrier to block out the Emerald Dream. It was so long since I read the book, so I cant recall the extent of it. Heh, I didnt even remember him doing it before I read it now stick out tongue

DarkC
I assume it was a "general" barrier to prevent any non-physical aspects from getting into the palace.


Emerald Dreamstate, magical scrying gems, none of it would work.

Becci
I find it an impressive feat big grin

DarkC
I suppose maybe in the practical sense, but not in reality; it's like saying an apprentice was powerful because he made a basic ward that stopped a rampaging army of demons.

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkC
Granted it was a hindrance at first, or what Archimonde said, but when the vines kept strangling him without any pause despite his efforts, the book described his efforts as "growing ever frantic", despite his normal face. Considering that his face remains impassive most of the time anyways, I would say that this was him starting to give.

As Utrigita said, he teleported away not wanting to risk anything - which basically meant "saving his own skin". He could have easily came back and wiped everyone. At least he marked Malfurion for later.

He did bar the palace from the Emerald Dream - but it doesn't really mean too much of his power. Think of it as a ward. Even if it was a standard ward against demons, Sargeras would still have trouble breaking through despite being a god (as shown in The Last Guardian). I wouldn't take it so far as to say that he shut down Ysera's control over that realm, because Malfurion did nothing to ask her to go check it out - she probably just didn't notice or care.

And what was his effort to be exact, ripping them away with his hands? The amount of effort he put into getting out of them seems to me lacking compared to what he had just done against Malorne. Archimonde isn't a brawler but a Warlock of the highest rank from the Eredar Race, and he uses his hands, that doesn't to me sound like a effort.

Yes he could, and my point is that he didn't, that to me seems as he didn't flee but instead as Becci said choose a tactical retreat, I suppose from his point of view the major threats to the Legion had just been removed which they had.

Didn't care that a Demon shielded her from her own realm? Also I don't think it was a Ward...

Becci
"Malfurion Stormrage stepped forward, facing the distant demon with eyes as dead as when he had first told the others of Tyrande's kidnapping. A static aura surrounded him and he constantly muttered over a small piece of what Krasus was the first to recognize as a leaf similar to those of the vines. Archimonde's expression never shifted, but his movement became more and more frantic. The vines now covered three quarters of his immense body and appeared all but certain to drape the rest imminently.

Perhaps realizing this, the archdemon ceased his attempts to remove the strangling plants. Instead, eyes narrowed, he freed his arms enough to bring his hands together.

And as Archimonde clasped his fingers . . . the Legion's terrifying commander vanished in a blaze of green flame"

DarkC
Originally posted by Utrigita
And what was his effort to be exact, ripping them away with his hands? The amount of effort he put into getting out of them seems to me lacking compared to what he had just done against Malorne. Archimonde isn't a brawler but a Warlock of the highest rank from the Eredar Race, and he uses his hands, that doesn't to me sound like a effort.

Yes he could, and my point is that he didn't, that to me seems as he didn't flee but instead as Becci said choose a tactical retreat, I suppose from his point of view the major threats to the Legion had just been removed which they had.

Didn't care that a Demon shielded her from her own realm? Also I don't think it was a Ward...
To be fair, he killed Malorne with his bare hands too.


Yet, that doesn't make sense when late in the 3rd WOTA book he struck EVERYONE in the band - Krasus, Malfurion, Jarod, Brox down at the same time - only Alexstrasza's action saved them.


Remember that she's fairly aloof in most manners, even concerning the demons - not being able to see there wouldn't have mattered too much to her, even if she had deigned to notice it.

Becci
Yeah. They had to mention Korialstrasz death before Ysera even bothered with the situation. That's true. Although, I do believe that she cares what happens with her realm. Especially when someone wields the power to effect it.

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkC
To be fair, he killed Malorne with his bare hands too.


Yet, that doesn't make sense when late in the 3rd WOTA book he struck EVERYONE in the band - Krasus, Malfurion, Jarod, Brox down at the same time - only Alexstrasza's action saved them.


Remember that she's fairly aloof in most manners, even concerning the demons - not being able to see there wouldn't have mattered too much to her, even if she had deigned to notice it.

That he did after having trapped him with his spell that produced the hands that kept Malorne in place, A spell that would have worked against Malorne would like have to have been a Paramount spell. A spell against malfurion on the other hand didn't have to be at that magnitude.

With all respect DarkC,
Krasus, Malfurion, Jarod And Brox vs Malorne, Cenarius, Ursol, Ursoc, Aviana, and Agamaggan.
At the point of time Archimonde removed himself from battle the greatest threats, from my point of view, at that time had been neutrilized, then later Archimondes turns his attention to the then greatest threat, and I find it a bit strange that in one scenario he as you say flees the scene and in another he defeats them easily (wasn't it in the Palace he attacked them?)

It was going into the possibility of Archimonde actually affecting it not through a Ward but with his magical power, that I don't think Ysera will overlook as little as she overlooked the nightmare in the Emerald Dream she reachted quickly.

DarkC
Originally posted by Utrigita
That he did after having trapped him with his spell that produced the hands that kept Malorne in place, A spell that would have worked against Malorne would like have to have been a Paramount spell. A spell against malfurion on the other hand didn't have to be at that magnitude.

With all respect DarkC,
Krasus, Malfurion, Jarod And Brox vs Malorne, Cenarius, Ursol, Ursoc, Aviana, and Agamaggan.
At the point of time Archimonde removed himself from battle the greatest threats, from my point of view, at that time had been neutrilized, then later Archimondes turns his attention to the then greatest threat, and I find it a bit strange that in one scenario he as you say flees the scene and in another he defeats them easily (wasn't it in the Palace he attacked them?)

It was going into the possibility of Archimonde actually affecting it not through a Ward but with his magical power, that I don't think Ysera will overlook as little as she overlooked the nightmare in the Emerald Dream she reachted quickly.
No, Malorne easily broke free of the fel hands spell - that's when the actual battle began. Archimonde didn't even use his hands alone, he had to use magic to fuel his fists as well.

True, but even then they're almost technically as much a threat to the Legion as the demigods were. It would have made sense for him to kill them sooner, rather than later.


The nightmare affects all of the Dream if I remember correctly, she'd obviously notice that - but likely not such a small part of her domain.

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkC
No, Malorne easily broke free of the fel hands spell - that's when the actual battle began. Archimonde didn't even use his hands alone, he had to use magic to fuel his fists as well.

True, but even then they're almost technically as much a threat to the Legion as the demigods were. It would have made sense for him to kill them sooner, rather than later.


The nightmare affects all of the Dream if I remember correctly, she'd obviously notice that - but likely not such a small part of her domain.

My point was to illustrate that Archimonde as a Warlock would resort to magic ore long range attacks first in a encounter, and then he will as you mention yourself continue to use magic given what he is. That Archimonde that preferes to uses magic against his opponents begins to use his hands without enchantments seems a bit okward to me.

They became a threat. At the point of time where the Demigods where defeated/killed the Legions largest concern was them it then later changed to Malfurion and Co also the mentioning of that Archimonde defeated them later doesn't from my point of view support the idea that he fleed if he later shows the ability to deal with Malfurion.

Yet it began in a part of the Dream and it quickly became Yseras concern if I remember correctly, not just because it was spreading but because it changed and denied her access to a part of her realm, but it can work both ways either she didn't care ore couldn't do anything about it.

DarkC
Originally posted by Utrigita
My point was to illustrate that Archimonde as a Warlock would resort to magic ore long range attacks first in a encounter, and then he will as you mention yourself continue to use magic given what he is. That Archimonde that preferes to uses magic against his opponents begins to use his hands without enchantments seems a bit okward to me.

They became a threat. At the point of time where the Demigods where defeated/killed the Legions largest concern was them it then later changed to Malfurion and Co also the mentioning of that Archimonde defeated them later doesn't from my point of view support the idea that he fleed if he later shows the ability to deal with Malfurion.

Yet it began in a part of the Dream and it quickly became Yseras concern if I remember correctly, not just because it was spreading but because it changed and denied her access to a part of her realm, but it can work both ways either she didn't care ore couldn't do anything about it.
Well, awkward or not, it's exactly what he did. I'm pretty sure that the battle was more symbolic than practical, or maybe being a part of Kalimdor itself protected Malorne from his fel magic, but surely enough Archimonde DID suffer injury from that encounter.

Personally I think that he would have teleported away as soon as Malorne was dead - it doesn't make sense why he would start ripping vines off and making himself look silly. If he had the power (which, he should) he would have owned Malfurion right then and there like he did earlier in the series, but he apparently did not possess the capability to do so. All he could do there was glare at Malfurion and mark him for later.


Well, Archimonde's spell did not spread, and it only barred Ysera from a very small part of her realm, which apparently to her was insignificant.

Becci
Well, Archimonde has proven himself vastly strategical and intellectual. It is no question about it, that even when he teleported away from the scene, he could have just appeared in front of Malfurion. He would have had no problems killing the druid, or the others, had he only wanted.

He is no fool. Why he did not finish the group we will never know, but I am very sure he had his reasons.


Or it was just pure and simple PIS. Had he finished them (Which he could), it would all have been over stick out tongue

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkC
Well, awkward or not, it's exactly what he did. I'm pretty sure that the battle was more symbolic than practical, or maybe being a part of Kalimdor itself protected Malorne from his fel magic, but surely enough Archimonde DID suffer injury from that encounter.

Personally I think that he would have teleported away as soon as Malorne was dead - it doesn't make sense why he would start ripping vines off and making himself look silly. If he had the power (which, he should) he would have owned Malfurion right then and there like he did earlier in the series, but he apparently did not possess the capability to do so. All he could do there was glare at Malfurion and mark him for later.


Well, Archimonde's spell did not spread, and it only barred Ysera from a very small part of her realm, which apparently to her was insignificant.

I don't recall him getting wounded actually, didn't he take the full blow from Malornes attack with no ill effect?

Agreed he should ore he should just have burned them away and then teleported, I can see why it looks bad for the book that Archimonde fries Malfurion but I think the other looks even worse a shame it's a good book. I thought you said later? I don't recall Malfurion and Archimonde meeting prior to the fall of Malorne. That is what I would call PIS that right at that moment Archimonde does not have the capacity to dispose of Malfurion when he shows later that he can...

It still had a negative effect on Ysera realm the barrier was placed by the very Demon that killed her Belovent Malorne she had no reason not to act against it since it limited the Druids opportunities for a quick attack.

DarkC
Originally posted by Utrigita
I don't recall him getting wounded actually, didn't he take the full blow from Malornes attack with no ill effect?

Agreed he should ore he should just have burned them away and then teleported, I can see why it looks bad for the book that Archimonde fries Malfurion but I think the other looks even worse a shame it's a good book. I thought you said later? I don't recall Malfurion and Archimonde meeting prior to the fall of Malorne. That is what I would call PIS that right at that moment Archimonde does not have the capacity to dispose of Malfurion when he shows later that he can...

It still had a negative effect on Ysera realm the barrier was placed by the very Demon that killed her Belovent Malorne she had no reason not to act against it since it limited the Druids opportunities for a quick attack.
He met the first charge of Malorne head on, yes. However both suffered injuries throughout the fight. The novel comments as such on Malorne's pelt being burned by Archmonde's fel fists, while some sort of green-fire was leaking out of the holes in Archimonde's skin where Malorne's antlers had peirced.


It's probably just another case of PIS - but yes, Archimonde marked him for later, along with others apparently. He cast a spell on the band that was meant to turn them into stone, and would have succeeded were it not for Alexstrasza's intervention.


Yes, but that was not until later on, near the end of the third book. Until then she didn't really care too much, then after her mate was killed, she got heartbroken, not to mention EXTREMELY pissed.

Becci
"Sharp, glistering dots from which burst green fire showed where antlers had pierced Archimonde's seemingly imprevious skin"

After that Malorne had made a full-forced slam into Archimonde, two dots was the only result, and the only specified negative effect on Archimonde.

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkC
He met the first charge of Malorne head on, yes. However both suffered injuries throughout the fight. The novel comments as such on Malorne's pelt being burned by Archmonde's fel fists, while some sort of green-fire was leaking out of the holes in Archimonde's skin where Malorne's antlers had peirced.


It's probably just another case of PIS - but yes, Archimonde marked him for later, along with others apparently. He cast a spell on the band that was meant to turn them into stone, and would have succeeded were it not for Alexstrasza's intervention.


Yes, but that was not until later on, near the end of the third book. Until then she didn't really care too much, then after her mate was killed, she got heartbroken, not to mention EXTREMELY pissed.

Once again the irritating lack of not having the book you (reference to myself) forget details mad.

I'm for one is leaning towards that. And Malfurion could do nothing to stop Archimondes spell right then "tactical withdraw" from the scene we are discussing sounds best ore is simply another Grom vs Mannaroth incident.

Yes but wasn't the ward put into effect after that?

DarkC
Originally posted by Utrigita
Once again the irritating lack of not having the book you (reference to myself) forget details mad.

I'm for one is leaning towards that. And Malfurion could do nothing to stop Archimondes spell right then "tactical withdraw" from the scene we are discussing sounds best ore is simply another Grom vs Mannaroth incident.

Yes but wasn't the ward put into effect after that?
Haha, I've just read it so many bloody times now that I seem to remember details better than most. I haven't touched a single WOTA for months now, to be completely honest.


Grom vs Mannoroth was pretty PIS, albeit cool; you're pitting an Orc against one of the most prominent demons in Archimonde's upper cabinet, have to think about that, and Mannoroth got destroyed. It's like saying that Saurfang would win against Brutallus.

Okay, maybe Saurfang would win, but still.



No - the presence of the ward was established at the beginning of that book actually, where Malfurion was lamenting to Rhonin about how he's failed to even see beyond the palace walls. The passage after that, describing the Emerald Dream, says that "recently Archimonde had strengthened these barriers, blocking even the Emerald Dream out", or something like that.

Not sure if it was taken off after Tyrande made a run for it with the Highborne or not.

Utrigita
I only had it for a month and then the library hasn't been capable of getting it back again.. So i'm just roughly going from what I remember from a book I have read two years ago.

That was PIS agreed and it's just based on how easy Archimonde could have killed Malfurion and Co, but chooses to teleport that seems like PIS to me too.

You think so?

Ahh I don't quiet recall that passage to be honest... And wouldn't that remove the possibility of a ward since Malfurion said strengthen them already existing barriers?

Ha you forgot stick out tongue

DarkC
Originally posted by Utrigita
I only had it for a month and then the library hasn't been capable of getting it back again.. So i'm just roughly going from what I remember from a book I have read two years ago.

That was PIS agreed and it's just based on how easy Archimonde could have killed Malfurion and Co, but chooses to teleport that seems like PIS to me too.

You think so?

Ahh I don't quiet recall that passage to be honest... And wouldn't that remove the possibility of a ward since Malfurion said strengthen them already existing barriers?

Ha you forgot stick out tongue
Yeah, there's so many amounts of PIS in WoW too.
Look at Gorehowl and The Skull of Gul'dan, both are legendary items in the Warcraft lore - I would even go so far as to say that the Skull is beyond legendary, considering the shit it's been through. They both should be legendaries and only be awarded to Class: Warrior and Class: Warlock. It's the #1 thing I b!tch about lore-wise. I mean, seriously, that's the axe that blew Mannoroth up, FFS.

Brox's ax is also entirely nonexistant in the game thus far, which also pisses me off.


I don't really get that one.....if the barriers (wards, for the sake of argument) were already up, how would that remove the possibility of one? What?

Utrigita
Well the reason I doesn't play WoW is because of there amount of PIS and the finger they have given the Lore.

Never mind a small detail from a previous argument

Becci
Originally posted by DarkC
Brox's ax is also entirely nonexistant in the game thus far, which also pisses me off.

It's a drop from a future Sargeras encounter.

DarkC
Originally posted by Becci
It's a drop from a future Sargeras encounter.
That doesn't make sense, considering that Krasus gave it to Thrall, who assured him that it would have a place of honor.



What the f**k?


Stupid f*cking PIS.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Becci
It's a drop from a future Sargeras encounter.

If they make that I'm going to bomb Blizzard headquaters into oblivion. I mean isn't it enough that you defeat Medivh, that a bunch of heroes are going to stop Malygos, that Kil'Jaeden gets repulsed by a bunch of heroes and that a group of heroes, most likely, get to kill the Lich King What the f**k?

Becci
Originally posted by DarkC
That doesn't make sense, considering that Krasus gave it to Thrall, who assured him that it would have a place of honor.



What the f**k?


Stupid f*cking PIS.

I was joking stick out tongue

Becci
Originally posted by Utrigita
If they make that I'm going to bomb Blizzard headquaters into oblivion. I mean isn't it enough that you defeat Medivh, that a bunch of heroes are going to stop Malygos, that Kil'Jaeden gets repulsed by a bunch of heroes and that a group of heroes, most likely, get to kill the Lich King What the f**k?

Oh, there's far more things than that to get frustrated with. Don't hold back now wink

DarkC
Originally posted by Utrigita
I mean isn't it enough that you defeat Medivh
Chess?

Terryc250
Originally posted by Becci
I do not know how many incarnations of Sephiroth there is, but has he ever died in battle? I mean, without "PIS" being involved
The first time he "died" while he was still mostly human, he went crazy and was in an insane state after finding out about his origins, he easily cut down Zack, as he started talking to himself and his "mother" Cloud came up and stabbed him through the back and out the chest with Zacks giant buster sword, he turned around and mortally wounded Cloud, then jumped in, this all happened before the FF7 game begins.

At the end of FF7, Sephiroth faces off against the entire avalanche team well equipped with materia, at the same time he was holding back Holy so it wouldn't intefere with Meteor, i wouldn't really call this PIS.

Then in AC, Sephiroth becomes at his most powerful, he gains control over the negative lifestream and the entire Jenova entity, so he basically toys around with Cloud, not even using his powers, just taunting and tormenting him, he still beats Cloud and has him against a wall unable to do anything, but instead of killing him, he stabs him in a non-vital point just to taunt him some more, thats when Cloud busts out the omnislash out of no where and the fight is over, thats what i call PIS.

Becci
Originally posted by DarkC
Chess?

YEAH! What's up with that? no expression Seriously, it can't be Medivh your beating in chess. The guy can see the future for crying out loud. How can you beat that? stick out tongue

Originally posted by Terryc250
The first time he "died" while he was still mostly human, he went crazy and was in an insane state after finding out about his origins, he easily cut down Zack, as he started talking to himself and his "mother" Cloud came up and stabbed him through the back and out the chest with Zacks giant buster sword, he turned around and mortally wounded Cloud, then jumped in, this all happened before the FF7 game begins.

At the end of FF7, Sephiroth faces off against the entire avalanche team well equipped with materia, at the same time he was holding back Holy so it wouldn't intefere with Meteor, i wouldn't really call this PIS.

Then in AC, Sephiroth becomes at his most powerful, he gains control over the negative lifestream and the entire Jenova entity, so he basically toys around with Cloud, not even using his powers, just taunting and tormenting him, he still beats Cloud and has him against a wall unable to do anything, but instead of killing him, he stabs him in a non-vital point just to taunt him some more, thats when Cloud busts out the omnislash out of no where and the fight is over, thats what i call PIS.

I like your choice of words to flash with his strength stick out tongue But yeah, thanks big grin

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkC
Chess?

haermm

You are joking right?

haermm

You cannot be serious, but omg you are no expression

DarkC
Well, considering that's the only thing that you "versus" Medivh in...

Utrigita
Originally posted by Becci
Oh, there's far more things than that to get frustrated with. Don't hold back now wink

Just the few things that pisses me off the most I'm sure if I actually began playing it I would be hammered my keyboard through my screen within a matter of days maybe when I had killed Dar'Khan...

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkC
Well, considering that's the only thing that you "versus" Medivh in...

wallbash

My God I hate it, at least they could have maked it so one had to draw out the Medivh side and not defeat a Being that can predict the future.

DarkC
Originally posted by Utrigita
Just the few things that pisses me off the most I'm sure if I actually began playing it I would be hammered my keyboard through my screen within a matter of days maybe when I had killed Dar'Khan...
Yeah, that was pretty terrible IMO.

Becci
I hate that you fight Darkhan stick out tongue

DarkC
Dar'Khan is what, 20 Elite?


Vs Kalecgos, who's ?? Elite and a Sunwell boss to boot.





Absolutely stupid.

Utrigita
Sometimes I wonder who is in charge at Blizzard a dumb Dwarf that has been drinking to much meat?

Burning thought
PIs is a point of view, Sephiroth has never shown an uber endurance beyond Omnislash has he? so technically thats a completly viable move of defeating him

Becci
Originally posted by DarkC
Dar'Khan is what, 20 Elite?


Vs Kalecgos, who's ?? Elite and a Sunwell boss to boot.





Absolutely stupid.

Not only Kalecgos. Tyrygosa, Jorad, Lor'Themar (S?) and a band of Blood Elves as well. All at the same time. While at the same time mindcontroling Korialstrasz and keeping Sylvanas bound to his magic to keep her from screaming. All this while not even being focused on any one of them stick out tongue

DarkC
And game-wise, Sylvanas sneezes on him and dies.




Whichever idiotic designer that made Dar'Khan a 20 Elite should be burned at the stake.

Becci
Oh, and lets not forget that he was also summoning undeads while he was at it. I mean .. the guy was a monster no expression

Yeah. That's probably the fight in WoW I like the least roll eyes (sarcastic)

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkC
And game-wise, Sylvanas sneezes on him and dies.




Whichever idiotic designer that made Dar'Khan a 20 Elite should be burned at the stake.

angrymob (in case you are wondering <- lore lovers, Designer at Blizzard-> hang

Becci
Oh yeah. And lets not have a look at the defeat of Archimonde/Kil'Jaeden roll eyes (sarcastic)

Utrigita
Best not to many to giljotiini

Burning thought
Archimonde is fine, and Kiljaeden, well he has many weaknesses on him and the players have plenty of help as well so its not like their as bad as the Darkhan your descrbing

Utrigita
Archimonde is fine? Getting delayed at mount Hyjal and beaten down to 10% health from a group of heroes when Malorne could hardly put a scratch on him?

No the entire idea of you surviving more then 10 seconds against Kil'Jaeden is just as laughable, Kil'Jaeden would apon entry have blasted Darkness of a Thousand Souls instantly killing every single Hero.

And if WAR have a large plan about scrapping there Lore too I'm going to get really sorry for even ordering it.

Becci
Well, they did an OK job with Archimonde's defeat. Adding the nature touch in the end and those kinda stuff (Lame, but if you close your eyes tight enough, you can pretend it's nature herself). Acceptable. Still, could've been done better. Much better.

Yeah, Kil'Jaeden is greatly weakened, but it's not exactly fitting his personality to be caught in such a trap. His defeat powerwise is fully alright by me, but why did he enter a portal that wasnt safe on the other side? stick out tongue

Becci
Originally posted by Utrigita
Archimonde is fine? Getting delayed at mount Hyjal and beaten down to 10% health from a group of heroes when Malorne could hardly put a scratch on him?

No the entire idea of you surviving more then 10 seconds against Kil'Jaeden is just as laughable, Kil'Jaeden would apon entry have blasted Darkness of a Thousand Souls instantly killing every single Hero.

And if WAR have a large plan about scrapping there Lore too I'm going to get really sorry for even ordering it.

Anveena did sacrefice herself to weaken him. She is the essence of the Sunwell after all. Quite the weakening.

Burning thought
This is gameplay guys, the likeliness of characters slowly hitting instead of running,strafing and leaping on their enemies or wizards spraying the area with spells as they would in story mode is impossible for WoW or gaming engines, you cant choose gameplay for lore, you cant say "omg this gameplay doesnt show lore" thats ridiculous because the gameplay isnt lore anyway, also what about the buff you get? that is supposed to represent the wisp powers.

It was the shadw of kiljaeden wasnt it? not at full power? also whats Darknesss of a thousand souls? also wasnt the blue dragon protecting them with its spells, in the game you need to stand by and get buffs from the dragon or you DO get wiped in one shot by his massive blast.

Becci
WoW is official lore. I dont know how they work out the character thing, but I do believe they are recording everything taking place in the official history page.

Becci
Originally posted by Burning thought
This is gameplay guys, the likeliness of characters slowly hitting instead of running,strafing and leaping on their enemies or wizards spraying the area with spells as they would in story mode is impossible for WoW or gaming engines, you cant choose gameplay for lore, you cant say "omg this gameplay doesnt show lore" thats ridiculous because the gameplay isnt lore anyway, also what about the buff you get? that is supposed to represent the wisp powers.

It was the shadw of kiljaeden wasnt it? not at full power? also whats Darknesss of a thousand souls? also wasnt the blue dragon protecting them with its spells, in the game you need to stand by and get buffs from the dragon or you DO get wiped in one shot by his massive blast.

I do agree with you. Both fights are acceptable cases. Nothing compared to the Dar'Khan matter, but it is still hard to imagine. Archimonde walked straight trough Mount Hyjal in WC3. In WoW he was actually damaged. I personally think the Archimonde fight should've been different. Could've still been, but different.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Burning thought
This is gameplay guys, the likeliness of characters slowly hitting instead of running,strafing and leaping on their enemies or wizards spraying the area with spells as they would in story mode is impossible for WoW or gaming engines, you cant choose gameplay for lore, you cant say "omg this gameplay doesnt show lore" thats ridiculous because the gameplay isnt lore anyway, also what about the buff you get? that is supposed to represent the wisp powers.

It was the shadw of kiljaeden wasnt it? not at full power? also whats Darknesss of a thousand souls? also wasnt the blue dragon protecting them with its spells, in the game you need to stand by and get buffs from the dragon or you DO get wiped in one shot by his massive blast.

In Blizzards world Lore and Gameplay is tightly connected, and you don't quiet get what it is that we are unhappy about it's that they choose to pit Characters that show in the lore that Blizzard approves that 5 heroes will get squashed while they ingame shows the exact opposite.

Yes but still, the Darkness of a thousand souls is the massive blast that a Dragon shields you from, in WotA a Dragon got killed by a gesture from Archimondes hand, yet here a Dragon is capable of raising some kind of magical buff thing that makes sure you doesn't die, A dragon basically overwrites the sorcery of Kil'Jaeden please, this is the kind of things that I doesn't like about WoW they could have made something about that Anveena uses her power to reinforce the Buff ore Malygos and a aspect ore something but not a "regular" blue Dragon. That they could have handled better along with the Archimonde incidents, both are useable (If I close my eyes and says nothing to myself for the next five minutes) my point is that they could have made both (along with numerous other) incidents better and still have sticked to the lore.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Utrigita
In Blizzards world Lore and Gameplay is tightly connected, and you don't quiet get what it is that we are unhappy about it's that they choose to pit Characters that show in the lore that Blizzard approves that 5 heroes will get squashed while they ingame shows the exact opposite.

Yes but still, the Darkness of a thousand souls is the massive blast that a Dragon shields you from, in WotA a Dragon got killed by a gesture from Archimondes hand, yet here a Dragon is capable of raising some kind of magical buff thing that makes sure you doesn't die, A dragon basically overwrites the sorcery of Kil'Jaeden please.

It may be ,but not that tightly, youll never find in true lore "10 random low level heroes destroyed important character A" theyll likely overwrite it with a more important character defeating an important character. Also you cant expect them not to have any bosses, do you really not want any good bosses in WoW? i mean sure you may not play it (i thot you did but ime not sure, my memories bad) but anyone who does would be bored out of their minds if all they fought is random bosses with pointless names that blizzard simply took out of a hat, wheras not only is fighting major characters like Killy a lot more fun and exciting, it also sells wink if the new exp pack was "wrath of (insert random character name out of a hat here)" nobody would be half as interested.

Perhaps he does, I mean the dragon that got crushed with a movement of Archimonde, does it actually say the Dragon was shielded or protected, humans can build heavy armor but that doesnt mean they always wear it and so can be killed by simple wounds that they would not without the armor, also as I said, I dont belive thats full powered kiljaeden, just a Shade or thats how I understood it.

Becci
Originally posted by Burning thought
Perhaps he does, I mean the dragon that got crushed with a movement of Archimonde, does it actually say the Dragon was shielded or protected

He defeated an adult dragon with a gesture. Shielded or not, that is an utmost impressive feat. Dragons are known to be highly endurant to damage.

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