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Current Batgirl
VS
The original Steve Rogers

Who wins?

Bloodlust to the EXTREME!

Rogers FTW

CC

She can predict your moves innately!

By an opponent using the slightest body movements she's able to read them as easy as you or I would say a sentence. Which IMO is superior to just having higher base stats, when it comes to a H2H contest with professionals.

Cap

Originally posted by Mr Marvel
CC

She can predict your moves innately!

By an opponent using the slightest body movements she's able to read them as easy as you or I would say a sentence. Which IMO is superior to just having higher base stats, when it comes to a H2H contest with professionals.

As cool as Cassandras powers are, it would be cooler seeing Cap find a way to beat her even though she could read his moves,,,,,,,,,and he would find a way to win.

Cassandra.

Captain America will find a way -

majority/

With standard weapons, I'd take Cap 7/10. In pure H2H, I'd take Cain 8-9/10.

Originally posted by Harbinger
With standard weapons, I'd take Cap 7/10. In pure H2H, I'd take Cain 8-9/10.

He still wins even if its pure h2h hand DD can read his moves when he goes up against A-listers he gets punched up just like everybody else.

Cap takes this. The guy is enhanced unlike Cass. He heals faster, is faster, stronger, smarter.

He has every advantage physically and mentally.

Cap 7/10

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap takes this. The guy is enhanced unlike Cass. He heals faster, is faster, stronger, smarter.

He has every advantage physically and mentally.

Cap 7/10

Uh......you do realize that Cass is basically metahuman in everything but name, right?

Originally posted by Harbinger
Uh......you do realize that Cass is basically metahuman in everything but name, right?

so that means?

Reflex
Agility
Speed
Strength
Durability
Combat tactics
Experience
Which one does she trump Cap in again?

Originally posted by Harbinger
Uh......you do realize that Cass is basically metahuman in everything but name, right?


Nope. She is a ringer in speed/agility like Daredevil. But she is not meta strong or meta durable. Thats why her strength/ durability feats are lame compared to Batman.


You do realize this....right?

Originally posted by Juk3n
so that means?

Reflex
Agility
Speed
Strength
Durability
Combat tactics
Experience
Which one does she trump Cap in again?

I didn't post that to state her superiority, just that the difference in some attributes (speed, reflexes, and skill) isn't so vast that she couldn't best him. Cap is stronger, but Cass has gone up against foes stronger than her (Bizarro Supergirl and probably Lady Shiva) and managed to best them. Like I said, with standard weapons, I'd take Steve, but without them, I like Cain's skill over Cap's.

Originally posted by Harbinger
I didn't post that to state her superiority, just that the difference in some attributes (speed, reflexes, and skill) isn't so vast that she couldn't best him. Cap is stronger, but Cass has gone up against foes stronger than her (Bizarro Supergirl and probably Lady Shiva) and managed to best them. Like I said, with standard weapons, I'd take Steve, but without them, I like Cain's skill over Cap's.

Shiva sure, but her besting Bizzaro Supes smells of PIS.

Caps more skill full than Sentry, but er you think he'd ever stand a chance?

just sayin'

Definitely for marital artist I'd wager Cass is the better. But better fighter and better martial artists are two different things.


For starters Cap has way more experience then Cass fighting constantly in WW2 every day and then the many decade time loops in the Korvac saga were he gained 100's of years of experience or more.

Plus Caps enhanced mind for fighting and adapting. I just don't see Cass winning in a hand to hand fight.

Cap.

Originally posted by Grinning Goku
Cap.

Rogers wins this without too much difficulty.

he's guaranteed to be stronger and faster than she is due to the serum, and has fought literally everyone there is to fight within the marvel U and usually wins. There isn't a fighting style she could come up with that he wouldn't be familiar with.

Rogers has even gone toe to toe with spiderman, who's speed and strength are not only vastly superior to batgirl, but has his "own style" not found anywhere.

also consider that rogers' body does not produce fatigue poisons either- his stamina is near limitless. Cain is still human, and doesn't have this advantage. Even if they were dead even in terms of skill (debatable) she'd wear out first.

Same situation with Batman. Batgirl will beat Cap w/ the utility belt and gadgets.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Rogers wins this without too much difficulty.

he's guaranteed to be stronger and faster than she is due to the serum, and has fought literally everyone there is to fight within the marvel U and usually wins. There isn't a fighting style she could come up with that he wouldn't be familiar with.

Rogers has even gone toe to toe with spiderman, who's speed and strength are not only vastly superior to batgirl, but has his "own style" not found anywhere.

also consider that rogers' body does not produce fatigue poisons either- his stamina is near limitless. Cain is still human, and doesn't have this advantage. Even if they were dead even in terms of skill (debatable) she'd wear out first.


Great points.

I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Nope. She is a ringer in speed/agility like Daredevil. But she is not meta strong or meta durable. Thats why her strength/ durability feats are lame compared to Batman.

You do realize this....right?

shes also Robins age, a foot shorter than Bruce and prolly 75lbs lighter.........so thats not something that can be helped.

of course, she fought Deathstroke and was basically UNTOUCHED by him, as opposed to Bruces fight w/Slade.

so, based on *that* and her other showings Id lean towards her ftw.




Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by spetznaz
When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

this was her 2nd time fighting him right?




Tazer

Originally posted by spetznaz
I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Beautiful post but I just disagree with one thing, captain america>slade.

No way he wins 10/10 or easily at that but he wins and Slade> Cap.

Originally posted by spetznaz
I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Great post

Still Cap

Originally posted by spetznaz
I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Excellent post.

Originally posted by spetznaz
I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Ravager has a form of pre-cog, so that comparison is in-accurate. And Slade has a tactical mind that rivals Batmans, and at times is better in a pitched fight.

and you should know better than to cite crossovers for evidence. A long dragged out fight, yes, would favor Steve, due to his lack of fatigue toxins. But I'm not sure Batman would let himself be worn down to that point.

more importantly, Steve is lacking his greatest weapon in this fight, unless I miss my guess. The Shield. As shown in various fights, including his match against Taskmaster, without the shield, he just doesn't have the edge over the top tier martial artists. Now, I still think he can win the majority, but it is possible for Batgirl to win it since Cap's stats aren't as far out there as Slade's are.

Yo.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
A long dragged out fight, yes, would favor Steve, due to his lack of fatigue toxins. But I'm not sure Batman would let himself be worn down to that point.

isnt that basically wat happend the 1st time Slade fought Bats??




Tazer

Nope. Slade beat the hell out of him fairly badly.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



shes also Robins age, a foot shorter than Bruce and prolly 75lbs lighter.........so thats not something that can be helped.

of course, she fought Deathstroke and was basically UNTOUCHED by him, as opposed to Bruces fight w/Slade.

so, based on *that* and her other showings Id lean towards her ftw.




Tazer

Exept in there recent showings she said Slade was playing with her. And she wasn't tagged by characters non-enhanced unlike Cap/Slade like Batman, Connor, Shiva, and many many more.

Plus thats why I lean towards Cap he's enhanced and the better fighter IMO.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He still wins even if its pure h2h hand DD can read his moves when he goes up against A-listers he gets punched up just like everybody else.

Spiderman can sense bullets before they are shot, SS has lightspeed reflexes, etc. Yet both Spiderman and SS has been hit multiple times by much slower speeds. See how stupid comics are? So your argument is somewhat faulty.

The question is :
Has Cassandra failed to read someone's in fighting when she had access to that power? If not then who's to say that Cap will even touch her?

Originally posted by h1a8
Spiderman can sense bullets before they are shot, SS has lightspeed reflexes, etc. Yet both Spiderman and SS has been hit multiple times by much slower speeds. See how stupid comics are? So your argument is somewhat faulty.

The question is :
Has Cassandra failed to read someone's in fighting when she had access to that power? If not then who's to say that Cap will even touch her?


Or a better question. Who's to say Cass will touch Cap since Cap has enhanced speed and Cass does not.

Cass skill to body read is impressive but its not the be all of the streets. I'd take Caps enhancement/skill on any given day over Cass skill.

Yo.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Nope. Slade beat the hell out of him fairly badly.

yea, it was and Slade ALSO took quite a beating himself; that was prolly 1 of the heaviest slobber-knockers Bruce has ever been in where he LOST too.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Exept in there recent showings she said Slade was playing with her. And she wasn't tagged by characters non-enhanced unlike Cap/Slade like Batman, Connor, Shiva, and many many more.

Plus thats why I lean towards Cap he's enhanced and the better fighter IMO.

thats in their recent fight; in their *very 1st* he never laid a hand on her while she scored a few hits off'a him, altho she had to bail when he raised the stakes on her higher than she was prepped to deal with.




Tazer

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Or a better question. Who's to say Cass will touch Cap since Cap has enhanced speed and Cass does not.

Cass skill to body read is impressive but its not the be all of the streets. I'd take Caps enhancement/skill on any given day over Cass skill.

Cass evades bullets at point-blank range every time.
She actually moves faster than the rate of gunfire.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Cass evades bullets at point-blank range every time.
She actually moves faster than the rate of gunfire.


Cap has played in lasers under "zero gravity" and has blocked random beams in training with gauntlets and has even moved ahead of bullets.

I know very well about Cass bullet-time feats. But she hasn't proven to be faster then Cap.

Originally posted by Tazer



thats in their recent fight; in their *very 1st* he never laid a hand on her while she scored a few hits off'a him, altho she had to bail when he raised the stakes on her higher than she was prepped to deal with.




Tazer

And? Point is Slade was just toying with her in the second fight. So what if she was untouched the first one it was unsettled to begin with and she's been hit by slower the Slade anyways.

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And? Point is Slade was just toying with her in the second fight. So what if she was untouched the first one it was unsettled to begin with and she's been hit by slower the Slade anyways.

point is she was all over a person as augmented as Slade is, and only backed off due to him pulling a grenade on her.

not saying Cap would do the same OR that she'd be all over him like she was her, but I do think she could take a majority from him; she's shown the skills for it.




Tazer

EDIT

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
As shown in various fights, including his match against Taskmaster, without the shield, he just doesn't have the edge over the top tier martial artists. Now, I still think he can win the majority, but it is possible for Batgirl to win it since Cap's stats aren't as far out there as Slade's are.

In various fights...which are these? Of ooucrse Cap didn't have the edge. Taskmaster had explosive arrows a sword and a shield. Context please.

Originally posted by spetznaz



She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....

Im not sure about that. Its been stated on panel that Cap can read an opponent by just glancing at them. Howvere 'read' could be intepreted in many ways.

Also if Cap can master an alien martial art in one day I don't see how its beyond anyhting he could comprehend.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im not sure about that. Its been stated on panel that Cap can read an opponent by just glancing at them. Howvere 'read' could be intepreted in many ways.

Also if Cap can master an alien martial art in one day I don't see how its beyond anyhting he could comprehend.

The Batman can also read an opponent by looking at them, to the point of even dodging gunfire simply by knowing when the person will pull the trigger (he's even done more than that, for instance dodging a sniper's bullet that was coming from behind him simply by feeling the slight over-pressure in the air caused by the rifled slug rushing towards him).

My point was not to demean Batman and Captain America. In my post I stated that Bruce and Steve are like perfect mathematicians who are beyond excellent in advanced mathematics, getting 100% in every test that they do. They are not slouches. However Cassie is like the genius savant ....not only will she get 100% as well, but she will do all those complex calculations in her head, without using calculators or metric tables, and do the entire paper just by looking at it (in her head) in seconds. All three will get 100%, but Cassie will do it in a way that is simply near magic!

Maybe a better analogy (sticking with the Savant feel) would be to compare the guy who won all those Jeopardy sessions (perfect answers every time until he lost many weeks later), vs one of those savants who also store many pieces of information in their heads. Both will answer any question you ask about who this and that musician was, or that period of painting, or who won the baseball series in 1978.

However, the Savant will also tell you the WEATHER that was going on in 1978, what day of the week it was, and whether the moon was full that night or not.

Both are perfect ....but one is bringing something extra.

Thus I was not degrading Captain America (or Batman) ....they are amazing. It is just that if Captain America is the Silver Surfer overdosed on the Power Cosmic, then Cassandra is Mr. Mxyptzltk on crack. Both are exceedingly powerful, but one of them is ...well ....magic!

As for mastering alien martial arts, Cassie basically learned an entire secret ninjitsu artform used by the Shadow Thief simply by watching him make a simple move.

As for comprehension, what I meant is that Cassie's entire mental constitution has been turned towards violence. This was at one point to such an extent that she couldn't even speak apart from via violence. The kid was bloody abused by Cain (not in a sexual way, but in that she did not grow up normal. She is so supremely F'ed up that in some ways she is more twisted than even Batman, who is one of the most twisted characters in DC by the way. Let's just say he was not chosen in the entire sector of the universe that includes the milky way to have a Qwardian ring, which operates on fear, for no reason).

If Cap and Bats are a Bugatti Veyron and an Enzo Ferrari, perfect in every way, then Batgirl (when it comes to pure physical expression) would be like the Delorean car that could time-travel in the movie Back to the Future. All great cars, but one of them has certain extras.

I was not sitting on Cap and Bruce ....just saying that even though they are perfect, Batgirl is something slightly beyond that.

With that said, Cap wins for the reasons I stated on that post.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



point is she was all over a person as augmented as Slade is, and only backed off due to him pulling a grenade on her.

not saying Cap would do the same OR that she'd be all over him like she was her, but I do think she could take a majority from him; she's shown the skills for it.




Tazer


And yet in the second fight she's not all over a person who is augmented and even she saids Slade is playing with her.

Cap is enhanced and one of the best fighters on Earth. As I do think Cap would take the majority from her. He's shown the skills for it.

Originally posted by spetznaz


My point was not to demean Batman and Captain America.

Yeah I know but since Cap is my fav superhero I gotta argue for him.

Originally posted by spetznaz

As for mastering alien martial arts, Cassie basically learned an entire secret ninjitsu artform used by the Shadow Thief simply by watching him make a simple move.

.....she learn't a martial art by watching somebody doing a move?

A fight with Captain America is not The same as a fight with Deathstroke or Batman.

W.r.to Batman He not only recruited and Trained Batgirl in Defense but completed countless psych and combat evaluations on his protege.

W.r.to Deathstroke: Wilson is Vastly superior to Cap.

quick recap;

Enhanced Mind: Able to utilize 90% of his brain's potential capacity for information processing and sorting, Deathstroke's mind is virtually a computer built for strategy and problem-solving, one that works at optimal ability even when under stress and fatigue. Using his superior problem-solving skills, Deathstroke can work out a battle ahead of time in its infinite possibilities and predict enemy movements and tactics after the battle has engaged by recalling and utilizing memorized mannerisms acquired through past experience on a moment's notice. He is also ingenious in devising solutions against superior aspects of opponents, can observe and exploit, and can calculate distance, speed, and time at lightning speeds; his sense of timing is superb, bordering on perfection.

Flexibility: Tendons and ligaments have been simultaneously stretched and strengthened, allowing him incredible flexibility in addition to his ability to dismantle and reset his limbs.

Regenerative Healing Factor: Deathstroke, however, can only repair limbs and organs, not regenerate them. If a limb or organ (such as an eye) is completely removed, it's gone for good.

Masterful TacticianSlade single handedly defeated the entire JLA roster except for green arrow.

Cassandra Cain v Slade** => tied >> Cap.

**without prep

Cassie. She can read moves so well its almost precog. Also she's insanely fast and skilled.

Originally posted by shiv
A fight with Captain America is not The same as a fight with Deathstroke or Batman.

W.r.to Batman He not only recruited and Trained Batgirl in Defense but completed countless psych and combat evaluations on his protege.

W.r.to Deathstroke: Wilson is Vastly superior to Cap.

quick recap;

Enhanced Mind: Able to utilize 90% of his brain's potential capacity for information processing and sorting, Deathstroke's mind is virtually a computer built for strategy and problem-solving, one that works at optimal ability even when under stress and fatigue. Using his superior problem-solving skills, Deathstroke can work out a battle ahead of time in its infinite possibilities and predict enemy movements and tactics after the battle has engaged by recalling and utilizing memorized mannerisms acquired through past experience on a moment's notice. He is also ingenious in devising solutions against superior aspects of opponents, can observe and exploit, and can calculate distance, speed, and time at lightning speeds; his sense of timing is superb, bordering on perfection.

Flexibility: Tendons and ligaments have been simultaneously stretched and strengthened, allowing him incredible flexibility in addition to his ability to dismantle and reset his limbs.

Regenerative Healing Factor: Deathstroke, however, can only repair limbs and organs, not regenerate them. If a limb or organ (such as an eye) is completely removed, it's gone for good.

Masterful TacticianSlade single handedly defeated the entire JLA roster except for green arrow.

Cassandra Cain v Slade** => tied >> Cap.

**without prep



To bad that doesn't prove Slade is vastly superior. Anyone can post up a bio........LOL.

Originally posted by shiv
A fight with Captain America is not The same as a fight with Deathstroke or Batman.

W.r.to Batman He not only recruited and Trained Batgirl in Defense but completed countless psych and combat evaluations on his protege.

W.r.to Deathstroke: Wilson is Vastly superior to Cap.

quick recap;

Enhanced Mind: Able to utilize 90% of his brain's potential capacity for information processing and sorting, Deathstroke's mind is virtually a computer built for strategy and problem-solving, one that works at optimal ability even when under stress and fatigue. Using his superior problem-solving skills, Deathstroke can work out a battle ahead of time in its infinite possibilities and predict enemy movements and tactics after the battle has engaged by recalling and utilizing memorized mannerisms acquired through past experience on a moment's notice. He is also ingenious in devising solutions against superior aspects of opponents, can observe and exploit, and can calculate distance, speed, and time at lightning speeds; his sense of timing is superb, bordering on perfection.

Flexibility: Tendons and ligaments have been simultaneously stretched and strengthened, allowing him incredible flexibility in addition to his ability to dismantle and reset his limbs.

Regenerative Healing Factor: Deathstroke, however, can only repair limbs and organs, not regenerate them. If a limb or organ (such as an eye) is completely removed, it's gone for good.

Masterful TacticianSlade single handedly defeated the entire JLA roster except for green arrow.

Cassandra Cain v Slade** => tied >> Cap.

**without prep


Yeah that proves your point.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah that proves your point.


Again another Slade fan who doesn't really prove his statements at all. That seems to be the norm though.

Its not like its been proven that cap is as good as Deathstroke.

Cap wins, hes more experienced and is better in all stats.

Cap also beats Daredevil so he is use to Cassandra's type powers.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Its not like its been proven that cap is as good as Deathstroke.

DS's powerset is similar to Caps they are both enhanced martial arts experts. Batman stated that Cap could beat him but it would take a long time. In other words Cap was better than him but Cap would win because he had a slight edge (enhancements).

The fight between Batman and DS fits the description of what Batman was predicting would happen if he fought Cap. Batman would keep up to a point then would get pounded because he can't keep up with Caps stamina and speed. Batman lost that fight to DS because DS was an enhanced MA, something which Cap is as well.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Cap also beats Daredevil so he is use to Cassandra's type powers.

DD as out of practice and he couldn't predict Caps moves because he had some drugs in him messing up DDs radar.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


.....she learn't a martial art by watching somebody doing a move?

In a nutshell, yes.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
DS's powerset is similar to Caps they are both enhanced martial arts experts. Batman stated that Cap could beat him but it would take a long time. In other words Cap was better than him but Cap would win because he had a slight edge (enhancements).

The fight between Batman and DS fits the description of what Batman was predicting would happen if he fought Cap. Batman would keep up to a point then would get pounded because he can't keep up with Caps stamina and speed. Batman lost that fight to DS because DS was an enhanced MA, something which Cap is as well.



DD as out of practice and he couldn't predict Caps moves because he had some drugs in him messing up DDs radar. Similar doesn't mean the same. I'm pretty sure Cap couldn't shoot Impulse in the knee with a gun. or stab the Flash or defeat the Atom when he became subatomic. etc.

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And yet in the second fight she's not all over a person who is augmented and even she saids Slade is playing with her.

which isnt an admission that she'd LOSE, only that Slade wasnt being serious. kinda says something that she could recognize that too.....

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap is enhanced and one of the best fighters on Earth. As I do think Cap would take the majority from her. He's shown the skills for it.

ok, fair enuff. however I dont think he's EVER fought sum1 as skilled as her, and I do consider her more skilled than him.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



which isnt an admission that she'd LOSE, only that Slade wasnt being serious. kinda says something that she could recognize that too.....


Not just being serious but IIRC toying with her. But I will say there first fight Cass looked good as well. Not an indicator she would have won that bout but did look the better.





I agree that she is more skilled martial artists but not the better fighter, plus thanks to his enhanced mind to boot for that and all his experience. I disagree IMO Cap has fought sum1 as skilled as her like Ironfist and Daredevil.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Similar doesn't mean the same. I'm pretty sure Cap couldn't shoot Impulse in the knee with a gun. or stab the Flash or defeat the Atom when he became subatomic. etc.


I'm pretty sure Slade couldn't take Hulk down or make Thunderball bleed or defeat Redscull with cosmic cube. But cherry picking showings anyone can do. Its about overall showings and how both Cap/Slade do when fighting in there own weight class.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I'm pretty sure Slade couldn't take Hulk down or make Thunderball bleed or defeat Redscull with cosmic cube. But cherry picking showings anyone can do. Its about overall showings and how both Cap/Slade do when fighting in there own weight class. Not too mention he ignored the context behind all those feats.

Like how Slade positioned bombs around him and knew where Wally would be, which is how he stabbed him. This, I believe, is also when hit shot Atom with a device when he became sub atomic, everyone was jobbing to Slade. Hell, Kyle tried to punch him instead of actually using his powers.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap has played in lasers under "zero gravity" and has blocked random beams in training with gauntlets and has even moved ahead of bullets.

I know very well about Cass bullet-time feats. But she hasn't proven to be faster then Cap.

Dodging after the fire and evading the aim are two different things. CA can't and has never reacted to light speeds. Holding a shield up in defense isn't reacting to lasers. CA has never moved ahead of bullets. I've seen that scan and have argued otherwise.

With that said, their speeds should be comparable. If not then CA is just a little faster.

Originally posted by h1a8
Dodging after the fire and evading the aim are two different things. CA can't and has never reacted to light speeds. Holding a shield up in defense isn't reacting to lasers. CA has never moved ahead of bullets. I've seen that scan and have argued otherwise.

With that said, their speeds should be comparable. If not then CA is just a little faster.

GTFO.

Originally posted by spetznaz
In a nutshell, yes.

Got scans? I gotta see that to believe it. Thats almost like a pre-crisis martial art feat.



Originally posted by Superherovandal
Similar doesn't mean the same.

Sounds like nitpicking to me I kinda explained how the fight between DS and Batman is what would probably happen if Cap and Bats fought.

Originally posted by Superherovandal

I'm pretty sure Cap couldn't shoot Impulse in the knee with a gun. or stab the Flash or defeat the Atom when he became subatomic. etc.

Anyway another poster dealt with this point.

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I'm pretty sure Slade couldn't take Hulk down or make Thunderball bleed or defeat Redscull with cosmic cube. But cherry picking showings anyone can do. Its about overall showings and how both Cap/Slade do when fighting in there own weight class.

Slade could take down the Hulk the same way Cap that little japanese woman did: via Judo.

and while I cant speak about the T-ball comment, I will say that Slade wouldve simply SHOT RS b4 he eve came near the CC.




Tazer

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Got scans? I gotta see that to believe it. Thats almost like a pre-crisis martial art feat.





No I don't have scans. It was in one of the Batgirl graphic novels where she fought the Shadow Thief (for Batgirl I did not collect the comics ....I simply bought the collection of those comics in the graphic novels).

However, that feat quite high, meaning that it should definitely be in the Batgirl respect thread (among other high level feats that are simply additional cases of why it is an inside joke when DC refers to the Batfamily as 'peak humans.'). It will definitely be there, so you might want to have a look for it.

Is it pre-Crisis? Well, I would not say so (if you mean like PC Karate Kid style, where he was facing off against a Daxamite and Superboy). However it does show that she operates at a very high level.

Originally posted by h1a8
Dodging after the fire and evading the aim are two different things. CA can't and has never reacted to light speeds. Holding a shield up in defense isn't reacting to lasers. CA has never moved ahead of bullets. I've seen that scan and have argued otherwise.

With that said, their speeds should be comparable. If not then CA is just a little faster.


No shield he had guantlets on his wrists to block the many random beams. Dodging the aim and the bullet are also two different things plus BG uses her Body reading ability thats why she couldn't do that with a robot shooter and got shot.

Good that you admit there speeds are comparable or Ca is a bit faster.

Identity Crisis (2004) #3
"Chapter 3 - Serial Killer" is written by Brad Meltzer and drawn by Rags Morales and Mike Bair. Cover by Michael Turner. What weaknesses do the mighty Justice League of America team-members have? Can one man truly defeat seven seasoned super-heroes? Slade, the man called the Terminator, comes very close to doing just that as he carries out the terms of a contract he signed with his new employer, the fugitive Doctor Light. By using 90 percent of his brain, superhuman strength, senses and reflexes, the villain manages to disarm or disable Hawkman, Flash, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Zatanna, Green Lantern and the Atom.

With his friends lying bloody and broken in the streets of Roxbury, Mass., it's up to Green Arrow to turn the tables on the Terminator. And so he does, in the ensuing struggle Dr. Light breaks the mental blocks placed in his mind by the JLA to make him docile and less dangerous! It's payback time!

Captain America is not in the same League as Deathstroke

Originally posted by shiv
Identity Crisis (2004) #3
"Chapter 3 - Serial Killer" is written by Brad Meltzer and drawn by Rags Morales and Mike Bair. Cover by Michael Turner. What weaknesses do the mighty Justice League of America team-members have? Can one man truly defeat seven seasoned super-heroes? Slade, the man called the Terminator, comes very close to doing just that as he carries out the terms of a contract he signed with his new employer, the fugitive Doctor Light. By using 90 percent of his brain, superhuman strength, senses and reflexes, the villain manages to disarm or disable Hawkman, Flash, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Zatanna, Green Lantern and the Atom.

With his friends lying bloody and broken in the streets of Roxbury, Mass., it's up to Green Arrow to turn the tables on the Terminator. And so he does, in the ensuing struggle Dr. Light breaks the mental blocks placed in his mind by the JLA to make him docile and less dangerous! It's payback time!

Captain America is not in the same League as Deathstroke




Your right by your evidence he's above the League of Deathstroke.

LOL Do you know how much jobbing is involved for Slade in that fight.

Its the equivalent of Fallen Son Cap saving Spiderman from the Hulk and Cap KO'ed Hulk. As Spiderman remembered the Hulk was going to thrash him.

Spiderman:"Thats when I have to admit to myself that no one is coming to my rescue. Back then I got luck. More then luck, actually I got Captain America."

After Cap put down Hulk as Hulk is lying down unconscious unmoving.

Spiderman:"Truth is I think he could've taken down a mountain if he wanted to..but at the moment Captain America noticing me...it made everything I've done seem worth it."


Again you choosing high Pis feats anyone can do. And Cap's feat is just as high end if nor more so as well.

Originally posted by spetznaz


Is it pre-Crisis? Well, I would not say so (if you mean like PC Karate Kid style, where he was facing off against a Daxamite and Superboy). However it does show that she operates at a very high level.

I was just kidding but thats one of the best MA feats ive heard of with the exception of KKs feats.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Your right by your evidence he's above the League of Deathstroke.

LOL Do you know how much jobbing is involved for Slade in that fight.

Its the equivalent of Fallen Son Cap saving Spiderman from the Hulk and Cap KO'ed Hulk. As Spiderman remembered the Hulk was going to thrash him.

Spiderman:"Thats when I have to admit to myself that no one is coming to my rescue. Back then I got luck. More then luck, actually I got Captain America."

After Cap put down Hulk as Hulk is lying down unconscious unmoving.

Spiderman:"Truth is I think he could've taken down a mountain if he wanted to..but at the moment Captain America noticing me...it made everything I've done seem worth it."


Again you choosing high Pis feats anyone can do. And Cap's feat is just as high end if nor more so as well.

Cap surviving a few minutes against Classic Hulk is not pis.

Deadpool, Batman, Black Panther DareDevil and Bone claw Wolverine can last a few minutes one on one against classic Hulk.

1 on 1 CA can possibly stalemate Hawkman
Cap would use the shield in a 1v1 battle against Canary. Canary would scream seeing the shield move like a blur towards her. And Cap would go down hard.
In a 1v1v1 with classic Hulk CA and Green Lantern There is only one winner. GL would punch them into the sun or something.
In a 1v1 with Zatanna... "pots" f.t.w.
In a 1v1 with Flash... speedforce ftw

Cap took on Hulk and Red Skull in h2h prepared

Can You demonstrate how Cap could survive And Defeat a group ambush from Magneto, IronMan, Quicksilver, Black Panther and Siryn whilst protecting a wounded civilian?

Originally posted by shiv
Cap surviving a few minutes against Classic Hulk is not pis.

Deadpool, Batman, Black Panther DareDevil and Bone claw Wolverine can last a few minutes one on one against classic Hulk.

1 on 1 CA can possibly stalemate Hawkman
Cap would use the shield in a 1v1 battle against Canary. Canary would scream seeing the shield move like a blur towards her. And Cap would go down hard.
In a 1v1v1 with classic Hulk CA and Green Lantern There is only one winner. GL would punch them into the sun or something.
In a 1v1 with Zatanna... "pots" f.t.w.
In a 1v1 with Flash... speedforce ftw

Cap took on Hulk and Red Skull in h2h prepared

Can You demonstrate how Cap could survive And Defeat a group ambush from Magneto, IronMan, Quicksilver, Black Panther and Siryn whilst protecting a wounded civilian?


Your not reading are you. Cap didn't just survive with Savage Hulk.

He beat him down and made Savage Hulk bleed with his strike. And then he left Savage Hulk down on the ground lying motionlessly unconscious. Cap KO'ed Hulk.

Which IMO its a feat of big PIS. Equivalent to Slade feat of PIS that you brought up.

Cap has faced Hulk on a team 1 on 1 and 1 on 1 after Hulks been softened by other costumes.

Each Time Cap has escaped Death.

Cap STOMPING hulk is unreal

Deathstroke or Midnighter Holding his own against The JLA and Defeating them is not Pis

The Midnighter Held his own and defeated a single opponent with the speed of light, Teleportation Matter Manipulation Precog Class 100 strength and over two thousand more abilities using the power of his mind to run infinite combat scenarios each with infinite possible outcomes in less than a second. Okay Midnighter's HF reset his snapped neck a few times.

Deathstroke has that ability and A Metahuman HF equal to Deadpool. Cap has neither.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Your not reading are you. Cap didn't just survive with Savage Hulk.

He beat him down and made Savage Hulk bleed with his strike. And then he left Savage Hulk down on the ground lying motionlessly unconscious. Cap KO'ed Hulk.

Which IMO its a feat of big PIS. Equivalent to Slade feat of PIS that you brought up.

Don't know about DS's fight but I don't see Cap Koing Hulk as PIS but a high showing.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I don't see Cap Koing Hulk as PIS but a high showing.



What the f*ck ?

http://i36.tinypic.com/169ksvp.jpg

Is it even worth my time responding to him? I can damn well justify my stance

If there ever was a shadow of a doubt, now it's gone. I will never take what you say seriously ever again.

Originally posted by shiv
Cap has faced Hulk on a team 1 on 1 and 1 on 1 after Hulks been softened by other costumes.

Each Time Cap has escaped Death.

Cap STOMPING hulk is unreal

Deathstroke or Midnighter Holding his own against The JLA and Defeating them is not Pis

The Midnighter Held his own and defeated a single opponent with the speed of light, Teleportation Matter Manipulation Precog Class 100 strength and over two thousand more abilities using the power of his mind to run infinite combat scenarios each with infinite possible outcomes in less than a second. Okay Midnighter's HF reset his snapped neck a few times.

Deathstroke has that ability and A Metahuman HF equal to Deadpool. Cap has neither.


Right LOL. Deadpool has had his head literally exploded off and poof grows out another one. Slade can't even regenerate his eye and has even gotten a fever before. You don't know Cap or for that matter Slade and the fact that you use Bio's and summaries shows you only know what you read on the web.

And yes there was a lot of PIS for Slade big JSA fight. Green Lantern throwing a punch instead of using is construct abilities or Flash not being fast as explosions as they directed him to the path of Slades sword. Seriously those explosions should be in "slow-motion" compared to Flash upper speed.

Cap.

Originally posted by shiv
Cap surviving a few minutes against Classic Hulk is not pis.

Deadpool, Batman, Black Panther DareDevil and Bone claw Wolverine can last a few minutes one on one against classic Hulk.

1 on 1 CA can possibly stalemate Hawkman
Cap would use the shield in a 1v1 battle against Canary. Canary would scream seeing the shield move like a blur towards her. And Cap would go down hard.
In a 1v1v1 with classic Hulk CA and Green Lantern There is only one winner. GL would punch them into the sun or something.
In a 1v1 with Zatanna... "pots" f.t.w.
In a 1v1 with Flash... speedforce ftw

Cap took on Hulk and Red Skull in h2h prepared

Can You demonstrate how Cap could survive And Defeat a group ambush from Magneto, IronMan, Quicksilver, Black Panther and Siryn whilst protecting a wounded civilian?
That was random

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Right LOL. Deadpool has had his head literally exploded off and poof grows out another one. Slade can't even regenerate his eye and has even gotten a fever before. You don't know Cap or for that matter Slade and the fact that you use Bio's and summaries shows you only know what you read on the web.

CORRECTION: Slade returned to life from having a baseball-sized hole put in his head in the last ish of his series.

becareful of telling other they "dont know" about certain characters DD1, cuz ya might end up making yurself look foolish.




Tazer

Seriously I agree that DS beating GL was utterly crap besides that ring shouldn't work for DS. The ring literally is programmed to work only for Kyle. But so is Cap doing a single thing to Hulk. Look who wrote that. IIRC its Jeph Loeb. the same guy who wrote Ultimates 3 the same guy that created Rulk. No one should take that feat the least bit seriously

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



CORRECTION: Slade returned to life from having a baseball-sized hole put in his head in the last ish of his series.

becareful of telling other they "dont know" about certain characters DD1, cuz ya might end up making yurself look foolish.




Tazer

Not really hes usually spot on, so he was wrong about the HF. At any rate hes right about shivs debating.

Cap decapitates her with a shield throw

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Cap decapitates her with a shield throw

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I to your

2plus2equals

Originally posted by Mindset
I to your

I to your his

Originally posted by Mindset
I to your of my to his

conk

Yo.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really hes usually spot on, so he was wrong about the HF. At any rate hes right about shivs debating.

cant talk about Shivs way of debating, however that doesnt excuse that accusation AND THEN making an error like that.

and we can all use a warning every now & again.....




Tazer

Captain America rocks the stadium.

Could go either way.Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Don't know about DS's fight but I don't see Cap Koing Hulk as PIS but a high showing. Always good for a laugh.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Right LOL. Deadpool has had his head literally exploded off and poof grows out another one. Slade can't even regenerate his eye and has even gotten a fever before. You don't know Cap or for that matter Slade and the fact that you use Bio's and summaries shows you only know what you read on the web.



Deadpool and Agent X have identicall HF but neither of them can regenerate an internal organ *cough*pancreas*cough* once it has been removed completely

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



CORRECTION: Slade returned to life from having a baseball-sized hole put in his head in the last ish of his series.

becareful of telling other they "dont know" about certain characters DD1, cuz ya might end up making yurself look foolish.




Tazer


If your talking about the issue were he has a hole in his head you do know it took a good amount of hours for that to heal right? Deadpool does that in seconds. Maybe you might end up looking foolish. If thats not the issue and its another then post it and I'll disregard.

Anyhow Cap himself has had a hole in his head from a bullet was pronounced dead and came back to life in 11 or 12 minutes.

Originally posted by shiv
Deadpool and Agent X have identicall HF but neither of them can regenerate an internal organ *cough*pancreas*cough* once it has been removed completely


Deadpool can regenerate his friggin head being blown off. IIRC Logan even decapitated him and he came back.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Got scans? I gotta see that to believe it. Thats almost like a pre-crisis martial art feat.




Thanks to the poster Philosophia (who sent the scans), I can now show you what I was referring to:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/WatchLearn1.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/WatchLearn2.jpg

Once again, much thanks Philosophia.

Spetz!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Could go either way. Always good for a laugh.

Why would it be PIS when he hurts and stunned people more powerful than Savage Hulk? Professor Hulk is more powerful than that version of the Hulk and Cap amanged to stun him its not a stretch to then say that he could KO a weaker version of The Hulk.

Anyway you dont even think he beat Spiderman or Luke Cage so as far as your concerned everything that Cap does is PIS.


Originally posted by spetznaz
Thanks to the poster Philosophia (who sent the scans), I can now show you what I was referring to:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/WatchLearn1.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/WatchLearn2.jpg

Once again, much thanks Philosophia.

Spetz!

Those scans in themselves don't prove that she learn't a whole martial art by watching somebody do one move. The guy/gal was attacking her with several attacks before Batgirl attacked. the guy also said taht she learn't techinques not the whole martial art. Saying she learn't a whole martial art from those scans is stretching.

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
If your talking about the issue were he has a hole in his head you do know it took a good amount of hours for that to heal right? Deadpool does that in seconds. Maybe you might end up looking foolish. If thats not the issue and its another then post it and I'll disregard.

theres no reason to look foolish on my end as I never claimd OR made any statement about *how fast* he'd heal said dmg, now did I?

U were the 1 who flat-out denied a feat, not me.

so again, becareful of making claims comrade......




Tazer

As much as I love CA I have to go with Cass.
She's just seemingly smoother, colder, and quicker when fighting in h2h situations. This would be a great fight though.

I give Cass 6-7/10 due to here being a super cold genius with a form of prescience.

Cap ftw

Originally posted by h1a8

She's just seemingly smoother, colder, and quicker when fighting in h2h situations. This would be a great fight though.


Can you proves shes quicker and smoother?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Could go either way. Always good for a laugh.

Cosigned on Alf's part.

Originally posted by Soljer
Cosigned on Alf's part.



Damn though you left. Oh well.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Damn though you left. Oh well.

Oh, baby, don't be like that. You know I'd never leave you; I love you too much.

Originally posted by Soljer
Oh, baby, don't be like that. You know I'd never leave you; I love you too much.

That was actually quite funny....and kinda disturbing. *shudder*

Originally posted by Soljer
Oh, baby,

I love you

You aRE teh GAYs!!

Good God this thread has turned into a gay love in.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Can you proves shes quicker and smoother?

I didn't say that she was quicker. I said that she is seemingly quicker when fighting in one on one situations (by the art work). And it is clear that she seems to move more smoother than CA. This is all opinion of course. Ask others and you will get the same answer. Maybe she has better artists drawing her.

CA 0/10


unless CA can achieve a striking speed faster than a speeding bullet

Originally posted by shiv
CA 0/10


unless CA can achieve a striking speed faster than a speeding bullet

CC 0/10



unless CC can achieve a striking speed faster than a speeding bullet

Five bullets fired WITHIN 1 second.

And?

support your statement with canon.

Support your statement with canon.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



theres no reason to look foolish on my end as I never claimd OR made any statement about *how fast* he'd heal said dmg, now did I?

U were the 1 who flat-out denied a feat, not me.

so again, becareful of making claims comrade......




Tazer


So one high end feat for Slade that you have is equals majority showings.

Anyhow I said he doesn't heal like Deadpool in regenerating an entire head being blown off or decapitated. Hole in the head does not suffice on Deadpool level.
So again you claims for the fail.

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
So one high end feat for Slade that you have is equals majority showings.

Anyhow I said he doesn't heal like Deadpool in regenerating an entire head being blown off or decapitated. Hole in the head does not suffice on Deadpool level.
So again you claims for the fail.

who made any claims?? oh yea, thats right it was U:



bit of info: he lost his eye long b4 his ability to heal was jacked up to the point where a hole blasted in his head WOULDNT keep him down permanently. same thing about that fever as I recall.

U were the person who made claims, not me; I never made *any* nor did I attempt to compare him to DP as U suggest.

yur claims fail, yur claims about MY supposed claims fail, as does yur argument in general. turn in yur KMC-membership card and go back to grade school so U can re-take Reading Comprehension 101.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



who made any claims?? oh yea, thats right it was U:



bit of info: he lost his eye long b4 his ability to heal was jacked up to the point where a hole blasted in his head WOULDNT keep him down permanently. same thing about that fever as I recall.

U were the person who made claims, not me; I never made *any* nor did I attempt to compare him to DP as U suggest.

yur claims fail, yur claims about MY supposed claims fail, as does yur argument in general. turn in yur KMC-membership card and go back to grade school so U can re-take Reading Comprehension 101.




Tazer


Prove it. I see your claim but not backed up by any proof whatsoever. So you fail unless you can prove so your just using a high end feat as he also took forever to heal from his Batman fight were he was affected badly with mild hits.

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't say that she was quicker. I said that she is seemingly quicker when fighting in one on one situations (by the art work). And it is clear that she seems to move more smoother than CA. This is all opinion of course. Ask others and you will get the same answer. Maybe she has better artists drawing her.

Ok that doesnt prove a goddamn thing though.

Originally posted by Mindset
CC 0/10



unless CC can achieve a striking speed faster than a speeding bullet
Originally posted by Mindset
Support your statement with canon.
Parrot

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Parrot What was the point of debating with someone with his logic?

CC has dodged bullets so Cap can't hit her, BRILLIANT!

Originally posted by Mindset
What was the point of debating with someone with his logic?

CC has dodged bullets so Cap can't hit her, BRILLIANT!

You know what I mean. Complete and utter crap.

Originally posted by shiv
CA 0/10


unless CA can achieve a striking speed faster than a speeding bullet

Because nothing slower has ever hit her, and she's never been tagged?

mm hmm, i see your point.

GTFO

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



who made any claims?? oh yea, thats right it was U:



bit of info: he lost his eye long b4 his ability to heal was jacked up to the point where a hole blasted in his head WOULDNT keep him down permanently. same thing about that fever as I recall.

U were the person who made claims, not me; I never made *any* nor did I attempt to compare him to DP as U suggest.

yur claims fail, yur claims about MY supposed claims fail, as does yur argument in general. turn in yur KMC-membership card and go back to grade school so U can re-take Reading Comprehension 101.




Tazer

You know what D1 doesn't need me to stick up for him and im not too clear exactly what you guys are arguing about...but....shivs debating sucks complete and utter balls maybe D1 got some of his facts wrong but in general shiv doesn't know what the **** hes talking about. D1 is in his right mind to tell shiv he doesn't know anything. Hell one of D1s main points is that shiv uses bios and summaries to debate characters he doesn't know about (something ive done before but I would admit when im ignorant).

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Prove it. I see your claim but not backed up by any proof whatsoever. So you fail unless you can prove so your just using a high end feat as he also took forever to heal from his Batman fight were he was affected badly with mild hits.

ok, I see I have to come down to yur lvl for a bit: 1)wat exactly is my claim, and 2) wat are U asking me to prove??




Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You know what D1 doesn't need me to stick up for him and im not too clear exactly what you guys are arguing about...but....shivs debating sucks complete and utter balls maybe D1 got some of his facts wrong but in general shiv doesn't know what the **** hes talking about. D1 is in his right mind to tell shiv he doesn't know anything. Hell one of D1s main points is that shiv uses bios and summaries to debate characters he doesn't know about (something ive done before but I would admit when im ignorant).

ok, plz note that at no point was I *ever* defending shiv; this had nothing to do w/that.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



ok, plz note that at no point was I *ever* defending shiv; this had nothing to do w/that.




Tazer

From what I understood you were criticizing DD1 for telling another poster he didn't know what the hell he was talking about?

"!pots"

The Most Recent Mainstream Trade Paperback I've read is: Captain America Red, White and Blue/ Various Writers.

Phantom Zone I know you like CA if you can get your hands on this check out Capsploitation... its so funny. This is one Graphic Novel I enjoyed a Lot.

Deathstroke does not have an ongoing solo title My knowledge of Slade is based on his guest appearances in Teen Titans, Batgirl, Villains United, Justice League and Batman titles.

I prefer to trade older issues and tpb's to make space available for new purchases.
Its easier on my wallet to direct everyone to the Rellevant title and issue number than re-order the Identity Crisis Tpb and run it through a scanner.

To be objective I chose to withold my understanding of DS's Skillset, Agility, strength and speed- pasting the data from DC's official site instead.

My personal opinion is The HFs of The Midnighter Deadpol and Current Deathstroke are comparable.

1 Vandall Savage = Immortal W/Instantaneous Regeneration

2 Deadpool / T100
3 The Midnighter / Wolverine
4 Deathstroke

Midnighter is an adrenaline Junkie so uses his HF on panel on the regular
Deadpool is reckless and Wolverine goes Beserk.
Because DS fights Intelligently he is rarely in a situation where he needs to draw on his HF. Hence he has few on panel feats and In a Debate it is easy to under estimate its capacity.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.






bit of info: he lost his eye long b4 his ability to heal was jacked up to the point where a hole blasted in his head WOULDNT keep him down permanently. same thing about that fever as I recall.

101.




Tazer

Prove this claim. I said he doesn't regenerate like Deadpool because of DS feats in healing. No were was I saying he couldn't Regen as a high end feat which was the one that you used.

Prove his healing got jacked up.

The fact that you don't even know what your claiming when typing shows the type of level you go down to.

Yo.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
From what I understood you were criticizing DD1 for telling another poster he didn't know what the hell he was talking about?

quite right, but thats not the same as DEFENDING that other poster.




Tazer

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok that doesnt prove a goddamn thing though.

Of course it doesn't, that is why it is an opinion. A very good one too.
There are countless battles on this forum that no one can prove (it is impossible) that is why we also go by opinions based off of artwork. And by artwork Cass kicks his ass after a good while.

Originally posted by shiv


My personal opinion is The HFs of The Midnighter Deadpol and Current Deathstroke are comparable.


But they're not.

And Deadpool is immortal.

comparable is to similarities

as equal is to identical

The word I used is comparable.

You're preaching to the converted.

Comparable can mean equivalent.

Equal, equivalent, and comparable are all synonyms of one another.

Originally posted by Mindset
Comparable can mean equivalent.

Equal, equivalent, and comparable are all synonyms of one another.

Yes it can. But it is a general word to describe a range. If one lacks the knowledge of someone's exact level then saying comparable is enough.
We all know what they mean.

Captain America dumps his man batter on Cassie's face ftw.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes it can. But it is a general word to describe a range. If one lacks the knowledge of someone's exact level then saying comparable is enough.
We all know what they mean.

Ok, but what range is he using?


Superman's speed is comparable to Flash's, except Flash can go way faster than him.

Originally posted by batdude123
Captain America dumps his man batter on Cassie's face ftw.

Originally posted by Mindset
Ok, but what range is he using?


Superman's speed is comparable to Flash's, except Flash can go way faster than him.

Non sequitur.

Originally posted by shiv
Non sequitur. How so?

You say DS and MNer healing is comparable to Deadpool's, yet Deadpool has better healing feats by far.

Originally posted by Mindset
How so?

You say DS and MNer healing is comparable to Deadpool's, yet Deadpool has better healing feats by far.

What's your point?

Everything's comparable. You can compare nigh-infinitesimal fractions to nigh-infinite numbers if you like. .

Originally posted by Soljer
What's your point?

Everything's comparable. You can compare nigh-infinitesimal fractions to nigh-infinite numbers if you like. . Which is my point, if you use comparable like that there's no point in saying it.

Originally posted by Mindset
Which is my point, if you use comparable like that there's no point in saying it.

I find you comparable to Hitler.

I am Hitler

Originally posted by Mindset
I am Hitler

Hence you being comparable.

Originally posted by shiv
Five bullets fired WITHIN 1 second.


Color me unimpressed.

Cap with meta gloves blocks random beams.
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers17004yb3.jpg

Cap dodges beams under zero gravity.
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123516rougherpv4.jpg
http://img421.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123518rougherbg7.jpg

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Prove this claim. I said he doesn't regenerate like Deadpool because of DS feats in healing. No were was I saying he couldn't Regen as a high end feat which was the one that you used.

Prove his healing got jacked up.

actually, U said (and Im re-posting this for the SECOND time):



which moves into how U know NOTHING about Slade, to whit: the serum (aka A.C.T.H.) that he was given back in his army days was all but eliminated by the introduction of a highly advanced & more modern truth-inducing formula ( hat he recieved 4 doses of) back in DS #8, and over time started to make him weaker, slower & even removed his HF.......so much so that he ended up suffering a serious heart atk and falling into a deep coma (this was DS #16). his body was then stole & taken to Chesire (DS #17), and he was brought back in some extreme chemical procedure, the execution of which the doctor who performed it didnt know wat the long-range effects would be.

so then we bounce along thru his title, and we get to #43 when Slade is on the run for killing a (fake) senator and trying to assassinate the Prez. hes trackd down & atk'd by Hawkman who tries to keep him from resisting being brought in by flying high in the sky, but DS wouldnt have it so he impales himself on HMs wrist-blade and then falls some 15-odd stories to his apparent death.......

.......except in the very next ish (#44), as hes on the coroners table about to be cut open by Sarge Steel & the US Govt, the incisions made into his body (which had NO lifesigns NOR pulse/respiration or ANYTHING) close up and he starts breathing again. then he breaks free and runs off acting insane.

for brevity sake I wont go into the accident that made him possibly IMMORTAL, but either way there U have it: proof that DS had his HF amp'd, as well as solid evidence that U DONT know about Slade. and oh yea, when Slade "had that fever", it was likely during the time he was LOSING his powers.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
The fact that you don't even know what your claiming when typing shows the type of level you go down to.

I dont know wat Im "claiming" since U accused me of 2 different things; sorry, but while Im gifted w/many abilities Im afraid that mind-reading isnt 1 of them.




Tazer

Originally posted by Mindset
Ok, but what range is he using?


Superman's speed is comparable to Flash's, except Flash can go way faster than him.

It depends on the context. Superman's speed can be comparable to Flash's for another's practical purpose. But Superman's speed is not comparable to Flash's for his own practical purpose. Now since both CA and Cass are peak human in speed then it is obvious their difference in speed is much much smaller than a Superman and a Flash. Neither one will strike faster than the other can perceive or respond to. That is why their speeds are comparable.

^ that be pretty post

Still Steve

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Color me unimpressed.

Cap with meta gloves blocks random beams.
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers17004yb3.jpg

Cap dodges beams under zero gravity.
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123516rougherpv4.jpg
http://img421.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123518rougherbg7.jpg

The first scan shows concussive beams (not light speed at all). Similar to Cyclop's blasts.

The latter scans obviously shows CA moving out of the way of the aim. There is no dodging after the fire here at all.
The lasers didn't fire first and he dodged second (this would be PIS). Reading through the second and third pages makes it obvious ("But if I timed their firing period just right..."

Don't get me wrong, CA is fast as hell just to do what he did. But don't convince yourself that CA can move as fast as light. Because you would be stupid if you did.