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1st Team I will select - Exar Kun and Ulic.

Select any two people in the history of star wars who actually worked together that you thank could defeat the duo mention above.

Must be two people who lived in the same time period and were:
1. A actually team or
2. Had dealings with each other

*jumps on PT bandwagon* Sora Bulq and Mace Windu

In a pure saber duel? I'd say that Obi-Wan and Anakin have a solid chance.

In an all-out fight? Mace and Yoda come to mind. Sidious and Vader, too, although it's doubtful that they ever fought alongside each other.

Mace and Depa could take them. So could Luke and Kyle.

Luke and Kyp

Kyp couldn't take a single, weakened slayer in a lightsaber duel, IIRC. His abilities lie in his ridiculous Force power.

Originally posted by Faunus
Kyp couldn't take a single, weakened slayer in a lightsaber duel, IIRC. His abilities lie in his ridiculous Force power. Seemed to serve Luke Well enuogh for QUITE a while

Originally posted by Faunus
Kyp couldn't take a single, weakened slayer in a lightsaber duel, IIRC. His abilities lie in his ridiculous Force power.
Everyone uses this one isntance to make Kyp look weak with a saber. In this fight 'he fought his way through a hail of razorbugs to take the fight to the remaining warriors. Han was astonished to see the jedi's blade neatly cleave a rigid amphistaff, then, on the reverse stroke, sever the head of the warrior himself.' also 'kick a coufee out of the hand of the only Yuuzhan Vong left standing, then pierce the warrior through the neck as he was running for his mount'

Kyp was also the first one to encounter the Slayers, and did get the first strike in on it with a lightsaber to the chest(which would have killed any other Vong warrior), and only lost because as he was fighting one, another one lassoed him from behind. While luke is certainly better with a lightsaber than Kyp, Luke was informed of the Slayers presence and what to expect from them, Kyp had no idea.

I bet Bane and Zannah could take the duo, as well....

defenitely....

quinlan and aayla!

well i'd say that any team with the njo, dn, or lotf version of luke wins

luke and.... pretty much sums it up. I mean, luke and caedus if nothing else.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Everyone uses this one isntance to make Kyp look weak with a saber. In this fight 'he fought his way through a hail of razorbugs to take the fight to the remaining warriors. Han was astonished to see the jedi's blade neatly cleave a rigid amphistaff, then, on the reverse stroke, sever the head of the warrior himself.' also 'kick a coufee out of the hand of the only Yuuzhan Vong left standing, then pierce the warrior through the neck as he was running for his mount'

Kyp was also the first one to encounter the Slayers, and did get the first strike in on it with a lightsaber to the chest(which would have killed any other Vong warrior), and only lost because as he was fighting one, another one lassoed him from behind. While luke is certainly better with a lightsaber than Kyp, Luke was informed of the Slayers presence and what to expect from them, Kyp had no idea. Finally, someone explains this to me. I'd never read the instance on the page, so I was operation under hearsay more than anything. Thanks for the correction.

Originally posted by Faunus
Finally, someone explains this to me. I'd never read the instance on the page, so I was operation under hearsay more than anything. Thanks for the correction.
Yea, I think most people who use that instance never actually read the book, only heard of it from someone else.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Yea, I think most people who use that instance never actually read the book, only heard of it from someone else. Right here.

Bane and Zannah would destroy them. Dooku and Grevious!

I am not familiar with all the names mention but Dooku and Grevious?

How?

Get Grevious within a few feet of either Kun or Ulic, and watch the limbs fly! Dooku can beat either of them as well.
Bane and Zannah (both Darth) are from Darth Bane: Rule of Two (GREAT BOOK BTW)

Zannah would die miserably against Kun or Ulic. She would've gotten dominated by Sarro if it weren't for Johun's interference.

Indeed. Ulic and Exar take Zannah and Bane rather comfortable

Originally posted by Faunus
Zannah would die miserably against Kun or Ulic. She would've gotten dominated by Sarro if it weren't for Johun's interference.

You're not serious, right? Zannah and Sarro were at least about equal in skill. Sarro was being amped by battle meditation, so that the only time they are able to duel one on one, Zannah had spent most of her Force reserves while Sarro was still completely fresh and unwinded. One on one, I'm betting Zannah Sorseu would've worn down the bigger, bulkier combatant. Zannah seemed to be a natural with the Force, while Sarro devoted himself to pure lightsaber combat. Zannah had to have had more natural force reserve than him. She'd hold out longer.



Not so. Bane could take Exar fairly quickly, even with the amulet. It's a blast of purely concentrated rage - dark side power that the orbalisks feed on. It isn't electric. We don't even know if it would harm Bane. Zannah would certainly, at the very least, stalemate Ulic until Bane can arrive and wipe him out. Ulic's skills are vastly overrated based on what he's done. He killed his already wounded brother, who we don't know if he was even a skilled duelist or not. And he appears to be fighting Exar evenly for a few short moments before Ragnos interrupts their battle. That's it. If Zannah doesn't take him out, she at least holds him off until Bane can.

Zannah really demonstrated great proficiency with Form III.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You're not serious, right? Zannah and Sarro were at least about equal in skill. Sarro was being amped by battle meditation, so that the only time they are able to duel one on one, Zannah had spent most of her Force reserves while Sarro was still completely fresh and unwinded. One on one, I'm betting Zannah Sorseu would've worn down the bigger, bulkier combatant. Zannah seemed to be a natural with the Force, while Sarro devoted himself to pure lightsaber combat. Zannah had to have had more natural force reserve than him. She'd hold out longer."Were it not for the big man's brilliance, she would have quickly switched to an aggressive sequence and easily dispatched the smaller man. But were it not for the smaller man's mediocrity, her defensive talents would have been pushed to the very limits by her more skilled opponent. The arrangement suited Zannah just fine, allowing her to play them off against each other."

"Zannah slid to the side, her spinning weapon redirecting the blade of her enemy away from her throat and harmlessly up over her shoulder. Its twin came in quickly from the other side at her hip, and she threw herself into a back handspring to avoid it, landing nimbly on her feet. Grimly, she realized that she'd never understood the true meaning of the term martial arts until now.

The warrior assailing her had elevated the act of combat to its purest and highest form. He moved with the fluid grace of a dancer, his monstrous blade singing the deadly song of battle. He executed his moves with a perfect elegance born of obsession. Zannah knew it left him vulnerable to other forms of attack, but he pressed her so relentlessly that she never had a chance to effectively gather her power.

Had the Jedi enjoyed the same advantages Bane's orbalisk armor provided, their encounter would have ended long ago. Bane could shrug off otherwise lethal blows, forgoing all sense of personal safety in a reckless assault of pure offense to overwhelm her defenses. In contrast, the man before her, massive though he was, would still die if her blades caught him. He had to guard against her counterattacks, his style less aggressive so he didn't leave himself vulnerable. Even though his technique was more refined than her Master's, she'd been able to withstand his assault... so far.

He came at her again, his blade changing directions so quickly in midstroke that it seemed to bend and curve. Zannah repelled the assault with a furious defensive flurry, breathing hard. Her style was meant to prolong combat, exhausting her opponents as they tried to penetrate her defenses. But each time she clashed with the olive-skinned giant, she was the one forced to expend desperate, frantic energy. Slowly, he was wearing her down.

It was more than just his talent and training. Zannah sensed some type of greater power at work: the Force flowed through him as if it was being channeled by another, giving even greater strength to her opponent.

Another exchange drove her backward; the man was cutting off the room, herding her tightly into the corner to limit her movement. He was taking away her agility, knowing she was no match for his strength. And there was nothing she could do about it. Taking another step back, she felt her heel butt up against the edge of the wall. There was nowhere left to go; the end was near."

Battle meditation taken into account, she was about to get wrecked. Kun, while smaller and arguably less refined than Sarro, is probably vastly more powerful. His style is completely unfamiliar to Zannah, and he can change the length of his blades on a whim. It's unusual construction would be an advantage as well, since the handle is no longer than an ordinary saber, as opposed to Sarro's ridiculously large (ten feet from tip-to-tip) weapon.

That's absolutely absurd. The orbalisks - despite the fact that most of them weren't killed by the lightning - were completely useless against Bane's deflected attack, to the point that in their pain they poisoned him almost lethally. As for absorbing dark side energy - they still allowed his skin and flesh to be charred to a grotesque degree. The amulets, which destroy temple walls, vaporize Massassi, and shred Sith monstrosities, would kill Bane instantly. It's not like he can live without a head, anyway.

Right. He's just going to walk though Kun.

Cay wasn't wounded. He had a mechanical arm, which he received years earler.

No, they're locked in combat, dead even, both declared to be "master swordsmen." Just prior to this, the wounded and poisoned Ulic had floored two Jedi with a burst of rage while "rippling" with the dark side, and then required the combined strength of Dace Diath, Cay, and another Jedi to hold him back. Later, he would face down Mandalore while walking on chains suspended several hundred feet above the ground, with nothing but his lightsaber. His opponent was in a basilisk war droid, and when he fired on Qel-Droma, the Sith simply stood his ground while furiously deflecting or dodging every bolt, and then proceeded to own Mandalore, even forgoing his lightsaber to use a Mandalorian weapon when the two began fighting on foot. He also killed the dangerous Warb Null in one move, and I believe he jumped through the dark side attack of Ommin, who was powerful enough to floor Arca Jeth.

Even more impressive was his duel with Sylvar. As we all know, Jedi, Sith, and everyone in-between rely heavily on the Force to augment their skills, perception, and physical attributes in combat. Ulic - who by this point had gone for a decade without a connection to the Force, and had only recently begun instructing Vima Sunrider in the use of the lightsaber - managed to survive a ferocious assault by a crazed Sylvar, giving ground while trying to reason with her, until he was pushed to the edge of a cliff and simply put down his weapon, shaming Sylvar and bringing her back to her senses. This is an unprecedented demonstration of skill retention, and indicative of what he would've been as a combatant in his prime. When he was murdered by a pilot shortly afterward, his body returned to the Force and he managed to retain his identity despite the fact that he no longer had a connection to the Force.

Also, he was powerful enough and knowledgeable enough to survive and destroy the Dark Reaper, and as a spirit would later instruct Anakin Skywalker on how to do the same.

Well Zannah doesn't take him out - she dies. And then, probably does as well.

The page you posted just confirms what I was saying. "It was more than just his talent and training." She was being worn down, and he was not. Only due to battle meditation. "Her style was meant to prolong combat, exhausting her opponents as they tried to penetrate her defenses." Do you really think someone as large (bigger than Bane and far more bulky) as Sarro would not have tired before Zannah had it not been for battle meditation?

And granted that Zannah would get killed by Kun. But, she'd obviously be fighting Ulic, so that's a moot point.



Cay had just been shot down by his brother, crashed, and was shown literally crawling out of the wreckage. Yes, he was injured.



That's nice, but Mandalore didn't have Jedi skills. Hell, he couldn't even take two of those beasts on Dxun at the end of The Sith War. It's assumed he was killed by then.

I forgot about his battle against Sylvar. That was impressive. But, Kun had beaten her years before - when he was still a padawon. So, although he didn't have his connection with the Force, and that he was only able to hold her off and not outright beat her, it shouldn't be overblown as a major feat.



Force Lightning powerful enough to nearly match Kun's amulets in destructive capacity, nigh-invulnerable armor, and superior saber skills means that, while it won't be a walk-through, it does means Bane will beat Kun. In enough time to rescue Zannah.

Just a question, can banes lightning ravage the wall of a massasi temple and actually turn an organic being to dust? I recall banes lightning charring his victims but not to an extent that it actually disintegrates an organic being unlike the amulet.

And you forget that the amulets sheer power doubles with every pulse of anger meaning the angrier kun gets the deeper shit your in once he fires his amulet.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Just a question, can banes lightning ravage the wall of a massasi temple and actually turn an organic being to dust? I recall banes lightning charring his victims but not to an extent that it actually disintegrates an organic being unlike the amulet.

And you forget that the amulets sheer power doubles with every pulse of anger meaning the angrier kun gets the deeper shit your in once he fires his amulet.

Well, I said nearly. Probably an exaggeration, but not too much so. Kun's amulet produced what seemed like concussive blasts, which is what destroyed the temple walls. Lightning doesn't work like that. However, even in PoD Bane uses Force Push to level the foundation of an ancient Sith temple, thus collapsing the whole thing. So...

Also, I doubt Bane is going to give him the time to fire it more than once. At most, twice.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Just a question, can banes lightning ravage the wall of a massasi temple and actually turn an organic being to dust? I recall banes lightning charring his victims but not to an extent that it actually disintegrates an organic being unlike the amulet.His telekinesis can implode a temple, and his lightning can turn multiple humans to ash.

And then there's this. Bane's power has a reasonable cap - with the amulet and some hormone action, Exar Kun's is essentislly unlimited.

While we're on the topic of Kun's amulet...It increases one's rage by a hundred thousand fold. Anyone remember if that is only when Kun fires the amulet, or does it constantly amp his rage/ability whenever he wears it?

I remember the page, I just can't remember the exact words used.

Originally posted by Faunus
His telekinesis can implode a temple, and his lightning can turn multiple humans to ash.

I thought all he did was destroy the foundations of a temple which is thousands of years old?

I do know his lightning can turn char someone , but the damage is not as catastrophic as kuns amulet blast which completely burned his massasi victims into a pile of dust(the comic showed them breaking into alot of small particles).

Originally posted by Enyalus
While we're on the topic of Kun's amulet...It increases one's rage by a hundred thousand fold. Anyone remember if that is only when Kun fires the amulet, or does it constantly amp his rage/ability whenever he wears it?

I remember the page, I just can't remember the exact words used. I would think that it boosts up your power too.

I think I remember Bane turning some of the beastriders of Dxun into ash. Kun's temple was ancient as well.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Also, I doubt Bane is going to give him the time to fire it more than once. At most, twice.Bane isn't going to have a choice in the matter, really. Kun approaches his height and build, and has demonstrated incredible feats of strength, so Bane can't just beat him down like he can most other people in the saga. Kun's lightsaber style would be completely alien to Bane, who - while understanding Kas'im's teachings regarding the restrictions of a double-bladed weapon - is going to be blindsided by the potential length-increase that can be sprung on him, as well as the agility granted by the small handle of the weapon.

... So much possible innuendo there.

Anyway, Kun has also demonstrated mastery of far more techniques than Bane has: the red bolt he fired at Aleema Keto, knocking her out instantly; his "mastery" of Sith lightning; the infamous Force-blast; ebony lightning used through Kyp Durron; the conjuring of dark side phantoms to shred Luke Skywalker's body; aggrandized telekinesis courtesy of Sadow's amulet; the "insta-kill" used on Odan-Urr with literally, a wave of his hand.

He's also demonstrated a truly profound grasp of the dark side, having created some incredible monstrosities through alchemy, which he learned from Naga Sadow's notes inside of a year. He is personally responsible for, IIRC, the terentatek, of all things, as well as the massive mutated Massassi warriors of which the "Night Beast" was greatest.

Then of course there's the complete resistance to the Force-techniques of lesser beings he exhibits, which is extraordinary. Aleema Keto fires some green energy bolt at him, and he doesn't even flinch - he responds by knocking her out for several minutes with a red blast of his own. And when he walks into the library on Ossus, Odan-Urr tries to cut his connection to the Force. Kun flies back into a bookshelf, then immediately gets up with his palm raised, and a panel later Odan is dead.

Bane is certainly impressive, I'll be the first to admit to that. But he and Kun are near equals if anything.

Regarding Ulic: You say his duel with Sylvar is "overblown"? Let me explain something.

Non-Force-sensitives aren't supposed to be able to wield lightsabers. Why? They can't keep track of the weightless blade when it is being used at high speeds. They can't rely on momentum and inertia like the could an ordinary, solid-matter weapon.

For Ulic Qel-Droma to use a lightsaber, with no connection to the Force, to such effect that he can survive the onslaught of a crazed and enraged Jedi Knight hell-bent on killing him is phenomenal, and otherwise completely unheard of in Star Wars, because it means he did it through sheer technical skill and a complete, thorough grasp of the mechanics of the weapon. His familiarity and proficiency with the blade was such that he was capable of defending himself against a naturally more powerful opponent who was using the Force to empower herself with greater strength, speed, agility, and foresight, while also under a dark rage. We've seen how much more powerful the dark side can temporarily make a Jedi (Exar, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Luke, Jacen, Cade), and to fend off that with nothing but skill and clarity of mind is incredible, and implies an extraordinary and completely unnatural grasp of the lightsaber, even among the ranks of Force-users.

In his physical prime - as of that particular duel - he'd been wandering the galaxy for ten years searching a place to isolate himself, and aged prematurely for a man his age - with the Force as his ally, he would've been an insane swordsman, far greater than most, and certainly greater than Zannah.

EDIT -- Oh, and on the topic of the amulet, it amplifies his rage when he taps into it for power. It's a cycle, really - he feeds it rage and power, it amplifies his rage and power, he becomes more enraged and powerful and transmits that energy into the amulet, which in turn amplifies it again, etc.

By the conclusion of TSW, he appears to have a firm grasp over it, though.

Faunus, what exactly is "ebony lightning" and how lethal is it? I never read those books when kun was a spirit so i'm a little lost here.

I didn't read the books either, but I've seen an artist's rendering of the attack and it's effect on Luke, and the "ebony lightning" term is something that I picked from another KMCite.

IIRC, Kun is inhabiting Durron's body. When Exar faces off with Luke, he uses that particular technique against him, and despite Luke using "every defense" he learned from Obi-Wan or Yoda, he gets owned by it. I think that's the part where his spirit gets torn from his body, and Kun proceeds to conjure the phantoms to tear up his body, but I could easily be wrong.

EDIT -- And apparently, it hurts like a mother.

Just checking that a little: Both Kun and Kyp use it in a two pronged assault and Luke's defenses fail when he tries to defend himself after being hit by it.

But yep, it hurts. A lot.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The page you posted just confirms what I was saying. "It was more than just his talent and training." She was being worn down, and he was not. Only due to battle meditation. "Her style was meant to prolong combat, exhausting her opponents as they tried to penetrate her defenses." Do you really think someone as large (bigger than Bane and far more bulky) as Sarro would not have tired before Zannah had it not been for battle meditation?
Read it closer: Zannah could not deal with an opponent incorporating the skill and style Sarro had into his style, he was better and when the BM died, he was preparing to kill her. Even without BM, Sarro outclassed Zannah. She couldn't wear him down as he was going to take her out first. And someone like Sarro moving that fluidly and quickly is LONG used to fighting without bulk getting in the way


Ulic is Kun's equal with a saber. Zannah'd die just as easily



Considering Cay "Of no worth" Qel-Droma is pretty useless anyways, we can ignore him. Killing a man trying not to fight you isn't a good combat feat



an injured Mandalore who'd just crashed onto Dxun? And he's a Mando...one of the greatest warriors in the galaxy? Mandos are known as Jedi killers

He wasn't TRYING to beat her



....Bane's force lightning ever blew a hole through a Sith Wyrm's head?

While I agree Bane>Kun, it's not that easy. Kun's a force lightning master, too. And frankly, Zannah'll die first

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Just checking that a little: Both Kun and Kyp use it in a two pronged assault and Luke's defenses fail when he tries to defend himself after being hit by it.

But yep, it hurts. A lot. Thanks for that. Again, I'm poorly versed in most non-PT-era EU.

Btw, my Ulic/Exar posts were pure pwnage the likes of which this forum has rarely witnessed.

I just wanted to point that out. Hail to teh Godz!

I liked Faunus' post a lot. One comment on it:



Do you recall seeing Kun using both ends of the saber? I don't. I remember a scan of him twirling it above his head, but every strike used against any opponent he was facing, he only used one end of the saber to strike with, not both. Maybe it was just to confuse the opponent? Although, I could be wrong on that. His last duel with Vodo was a bit confusing...could've used both ends there.

I do think that Bane > Kun, but like LS said - it isn't by much.

After rereading the passage, I'm also inclined to believe that Sarro was more skilled. Whether he'd have beaten her or not, I'm still not sure. He was using BM against her, afterall. That makes him stronger, faster, makes his precog superior, and gives him unlimited stamina. How do you think Ulic would defend against Zannah's Sith sorcery? In my opinion, that's where he'd fall if anything. He does have Sato's amulet, but I don't remember Ulic using it, or having any knowledge of Sith sorcery in general.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I liked Faunus' post a lot.Gooooood.

He used both against Vodo, although once he whipped out the second blade the fight lasted three panels. But there was definitely some visible use of it, and he ended the fight by breaking through Vodo's seemingly indestructible (via Force) staff.

I think it could be argued either way, although no-orbalisk Bane, IMO, would fall to Kun.

Well, Ulic studied with Kun on Yavin 4 if my memory serves me right, and Kun at least was a complete master of Sith sorcery even before his truly meteoric rise. He makes a fool out of Aleema with it proclaiming to have learned "everything," I believe. I don't think it'd be a stretch to say that - with his experiences with Aleema, plus all the resources he and Kun had at their disposal (everything Sadow brought to Yavin 4 or created there over the course of his six hundred-year stay) and the fact that Kun was a master of the dark side - he had at least a passing understanding of the application and defenses against Sith sorcery.

And Ulic actually uses the amulet once, to blow away Nomi and another Jedi in a fit of rage, but that's it.

He swings the blasted saber a total of three times in combat, that's not enough to discount anything. Moreover, Sarro had Zannah nearly killed by the time he died. And as for the Sith Sorcery, notice Zannah can only pull it off when her opponents are distracted? A Sith Lord like Ulic isn't going to have a problem defending himself from Zannah there.

And on top of that kun was still a noob when he went apeshit with that amulet and caused catastrophic damage with it.

He would shove his fist up a number of force users ass.

lol

DE Luke and Palpy.?????

Yoda and Mace Windu

Necromancy? This isn't the first time you've done that is it?

what about Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion. I just wanted to throw that idea out there. Or maybe Naga Sadow and Freedon Nadd

Normally i would throw revan's name out there but he didnt have any very powerful allies

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
what about Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion. I just wanted to throw that idea out there. Or maybe Naga Sadow and Freedon Nadd

There was actually a thread a while ago, having Nihilus and Sion vs. the entire PT Council and then Order.

And while it sounds completely ridiculous initially, there were a lot of good arguments for the KOTOR2 boys.

So, I agree that they would make a very good and deadly team.

Yoda and Mace >>> all. See the final act of the CWC.

...

Yeah, I know, but it's awesome.

I wonder how good of a team Luke and Jacen would be.

Luke and Mara

Ragnos takes this without any limbs. And he doesn't need a partner. That's how damn good he is.

Johun Othone + Darsha Assant

If Jacen/Caedus and Jaina were on the same side by the end of LOTF they would be a tough a beat as would Bane and Zannah. What do you all think of Darth Revan and Malak?

Revan very good, malak not so much. And i still think Sion and Nihilus would be one of the best teams

Zannah's still a weak link in the chain. Her technique is 'stall enemy until Bane comes to help' and her Sith Sorcery drains her way too much.

Exar and Ulic'd be a great team. So would Luke and Jacen.

I'm surprised no one considered Qui-Gon Jinn and RotS Obi-Wan. Or did I skim the thread again? D'oh.