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1. Rots Yoda
2. Rots Sidious
3. DE Sidious
4. Rots Yoda and Mace Windu
5. Exar Kun
6. Darth Nihilus
7. rot Darth Bane
8. DE Sidious and Darth Nihilus
One fight a day.
Does the sw god make it.

Stopped at 8, assuming this is all-out.

BTW, that list order is waaay screwed up.

Done to death and personally the DBZ-ishness of the later series is a little much to be taken seriously so im a troll it down

Dies at three, four, and gets royally ****ed at 8.

NJO Luke loses to DE Sidious? What??

Have you been debating with KOTOR3 for too long?

Originally posted by Enyalus
NJO Luke loses to DE Sidious? What??

Have you been debating with KOTOR3 for too long?

No.

I simply have read more NJO than most people and know for a fact that Skywalker doesn't get truly uber until The Unifying Force. He gets dominated by a random Dark Jedi, even with assistance. A few years before NJO, he was nearly killed by a single droideka. In LotF, though he demonstrates Force mastery a notable tier or two above Caedus, he is still injured and challenged by him in lightsaber combat.

He is not a god.

Hm. Well, I've already said I don't know much about the NJO era, so I'll rescind my last comment.

Then who is the most powerful force user?

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Then who is the most powerful force user? Nihilus cuz he luukz teh culest

Form your own opinion sheep.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Then who is the most powerful force user?

I lack the authority and comprehensive knowledge to say for certain. Is Luke Skywalker among the finest? Certainly. Invincible depicts Skywalker demonstrating frightening power in terms of illusions and surprising extent of Force knowledge (his mastery of the shatterpoint charism). He was capable of rooting himself in the Force that the galaxy's central black hole would not be able to move him (though it's arguable hyperbole). As a combatant, I am willing to concede that he is greater than the Galactic Emperor; he's certainly a more versed and conditioned warrior. But in terms of scale and destruction? Palpatine has demonstrated more destructive power than any singular magus in canon and has effected the galaxy on a wider scale than even the Chosen One or Skywalker himself.

Though I'm also hesitant to say Palpatine was the MOST POWERFUL EVAH. He's arguably the most powerful we've seen, but that's it.

Originally posted by Taven
Form your own opinion sheep. This actually pleases me. You have changed abit.

@Gideon.

Where would you rank vader and starkiller then?

Judging from his feats in-game, Vader is a far greater combatant than most would give him credit for. In the novelization, he casually chokes General Kota (who is a supremely talented duelist) in mid-air and proceeds to hurl Starkiller through a wall via a massive stone obelisk that is functioning as a table. He also manhandles PROXY when the droid attacks him with his "most dangerous training module" and serves to challenge an incredibly empowered Starkiller in combat.

Vader's problem is that he isn't very well versed in the Force compared to others.

What do you mean by " isn't very well versed in the Force compared to others"?

I don't really get that.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
What do you mean by " isn't very well versed in the Force compared to others"?

I don't really get that.

He's hardly a scholar or interested in increasing technique. He sticks to telekinesis and that's it. He's clearly outclassed in esoteric knowledge.

True but his skills in sheer TK alone are already pretty impressive which is a testament to his strength in the force. I could imagine how much more powerful he is capable of being had he actually studied other force techniques such as drain life or being more versed into the force.

But i thought he had an ancient sith holocron? It was stated in the rise and fall of darth vader that he did have one in his castle in vjun.

maybe 3, defenitely 4, and defenitely 8.

1. The order of this gauntlet is a bit off.

2. I'd say that both DE Sidious and RotS Mace/Yoda could take him. Could, not necessarily will. The only place where he gets destroyed without question is in DE Sidious + Nihilus vs. him.

Luke has no chance in hell of completing this gauntlet. DE Sidious would be a tough win but I don't see how he could anywhere close to a full strength a day after after fighting him especially after fighting ROTS Yoda and Sidious prior to fighting DE Sidious. So I say he falls at 3 or 4 due to prior injuries and not enough recovery time.

Originally posted by Gideon
But in terms of scale and destruction? Palpatine has demonstrated more destructive power than any singular magus in canonNihilus.

'A'ffected.

And if you're referring to his effect on the Force, that's hardly due to personal power. The presence of any powerful dark side affiliate is enough to disturb any Jedi, and even negative actions and events can do that (Jedi Purge, Alderaan, etc.).

In raw power or potential, he really isn't. Discounting Nihilus, his Force-storm has the most destructive potential of any intentional assault ever conducted, and his Force mastery is relatively unchallenged, but he has his superiors in some regards. Dooku possibly demonstrated greater finesse with telekinesis than Sidious ever has, with Luke Skywalker, Kyp Durron, and Garen Malek have all shown far greater telekinetic power - with it being implied that Yoda could as well - and Darth Bane used it on a subatomic level, which I don't believe we've seen Sidious do. Mace, Jacen, Jaina, and Luke have all mastered the shatterpoint technique, which Cade Skywalker seemingly used a variant of, and also instinctively used, at fourteen, a power that literally brought his master back from death, with there being dozens of characters who've arguably shown a greater natural affinity for instinctive use of the Force than Sidious has.

Anyway, Luke has shown the most destructive ability with a lightsaber of pretty much anyone in the saga. He pretty much single-handedly took down a Yuuzhan Vong army in TUF, with Jacen and Jaina basically cleaning up behind him while being awed by his sheer power and speed, describing him as a "maelstrom" in the Force and noting that he appeared to be wielding twenty lightsabers at once. In the conclusion of DN, after ridding himself of the doubt that allowed Lomi Plo to defeat him, he pretty much owned Raynar Thul after taking a Force-push backed by the combined power of the entire Killik hive. Thul's power expenditure earlier was so great that it burned through his gloves, IIRC, and I believe Glentract said he bent away turbolaser blasts. Luke then proceeded to tool Lomi Plo with his weak left hand after getting shot in the right side by a now one-armed Thul. After musing that, even with his weak hand, he could fight better one-handed than anyone else in the entire Jedi Order, he casually sidesteps Lomi's final charge and literally carves her up.

So yeah, I think he could take Sidious without much threat to his own life.

Didn't the essential guide to the force state that palpatines force storm could tear off a planets surface as well as ravage entire armada's/destroy the fabrics of space?

Which is substantially more destructive than killing all life.

Palpatine makes the Force Storm technique sound fairly simple in the manuscripts he wrote. Something about channeling your anger through the center of your being (the seat of power) and visualizing the destruction, or some equally ridiculous thing. I think it was his unparalled access to Sith and Jedi knowledge that allowed him to create such an attack.

Give Kun, Reven, Nihilus, Bane, Caedus, and probably others acess to that kind of Force knowledge, and it's almost a given they'd be able to do the same.

Also, Bane's use of the Force on a subatomic level is impressive, but I think it's implied that anyone who made a Sith holocron had to use the Force in the same way. Something about the crystal's matrices alligning properly.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Palpatine makes the Force Storm technique sound fairly simple in the manuscripts he wrote. Something about channeling your anger through the center of your being (the seat of power) and visualizing the destruction, or some equally ridiculous thing. I think it was his unparalled access to Sith and Jedi knowledge that allowed him to create such an attack.

Give Kun, Reven, Nihilus, Bane, Caedus, and probably others acess to that kind of Force knowledge, and it's almost a given they'd be able to do the same.

Also, Bane's use of the Force on a subatomic level is impressive, but I think it's implied that anyone who made a Sith holocron had to use the Force in the same way. Something about the crystal's matrices alligning properly. It cannot possibly be as simple as you imply, have a little common sense man.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
It cannot possibly be as simple as you imply, have a little common sense man.

Have you read Dark Empire? It has excerpts from some of the books Palpatine had wrote at the back of the comic(such as The Book of Anger), one of which describes how the Force Storm technique is used. It also states that initially, it was almost impossible for him to control the maelstrom of Dark Side energies, but by DE he has complete control of it.

While we are talking about the force storm I read on wookieepedia (then checked the source it used) that the darkstaff created a force storm that brought Darth Rivan to the (future) battle of Ruusan. Is that really considered canon because it was from one of those role playing game book.

Oh...so Sidious didn't create it?

I have no idea. Hopefully Gideon or Faunus will save the day, lol.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Have you read Dark Empire? It has excerpts from some of the books Palpatine had wrote at the back of the comic(such as The Book of Anger), one of which describes how the Force Storm technique is used. It also states that initially, it was almost impossible for him to control the maelstrom of Dark Side energies, but by DE he has complete control of it. Kinda my point, not just any sith or jedi could do this. Like everybody believes that just about anybody could Force Sever.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Kinda my point, not just any sith or jedi could do this. Like everybody believes that just about anybody could Force Sever.

Palps makes it sound easy. Channeling anger through the center of your body while controlling it with your willpower, or somesuch thing. *shrugs*

Originally posted by Enyalus
Palps makes it sound easy. Channeling anger through the center of your body while controlling it with your willpower, or somesuch thing. *shrugs* Luke makes wiping your ass with Vong Slayers look easy because he is DBZ-uber at that point not cuz it is.

Originally posted by Faunus
Nihilus.

Emperor Palpatine was a master of the "most powerful Force technique ever" that was capable of "tearing the surfaces off worlds", transporting powerful Force users across the space/time continuum and deposit him within a Lictor-class dungeon ship, and destroying an entire fleet of state-of-the-art ships each equipped with shields capable of resisting gigatons of damage.

The word "Nihilus" doesn't impress me nearly as much.




I can only respond to that ridiculous statement by reminding you of the following:

Palpatine was identified directly with the dark side of the Force and the 'shadow' that blunted the Jedi Order's perceptions throughout the entirety of the prequel trilogy in the Revenge of the Sith novelization. His rituals in Sithisis allowed him to directly impact galactic-affairs through the Force, such as increasing the hatred within Anakin Skywalker and anxiety throughout the entire Order, including Yoda himself. Count Dooku once observed Palpatine "through the eyes of the Force itself" and witnessed that his Master was "an event horizon", "darkness beyond darkness", "beyond power", and "a black hole of the Force." Starkiller observed that "the Sith Lord who singlehandedly wiped out most of the Jedi in the galaxy could cast a shadow deep enough to hide anything." Moreover, the most incriminating evidence is how his birth -- the one person who could "embrace the dark side completely" (Labyrinth of Evil) -- yielded the creation of the Chosen One to bring balance to the Force by eliminating Palpatine (Vader: the Ultimate Visual Guide and The Essential Guide to Characters."

You will be courteous enough to get me a list of these characters who have impacted the Force in such a fashion, then? I'm ashamed to have missed them, since they are apparently so common.



Other than anyone with the name Skywalker, you'd have a tough time proving that.



Nihilus has been dealt with. "Some regards" =/= greater strength. He asked me who the most powerful Force user was. You're splitting hairs.



...And would still be crushed by him all the same.



Where is it implied that Yoda could have done as much? Moreover, when have they demonstrated abilities to tear surfaces off of worlds? You're splitting hairs.



Instinctive? Palpatine's a scholar, not a warrior. His instincts are likely terrible, though it doesn't matter. Count Dooku and Darth Maul, according to Lucas, could never have equalled or surpassed the Emperor in potency. Jacen, Cade, Jaina, and Luke? Of course. Mace? Doubt it. It doesn't matter, you're still splitting hairs.



Because mastery of the lightsaber translates to power? All hail Kas'im and Anoon Bondara.



DN Luke =/= NJO Luke. And as stated before, Skywalker is likely a greater combatant, but not necessarily more powerful, and not by NJO.

You're splitting hairs.

Originally posted by Faunus
Nihilus.

'A'ffected.

And if you're referring to his effect on the Force, that's hardly due to personal power. The presence of any powerful dark side affiliate is enough to disturb any Jedi, and even negative actions and events can do that (Jedi Purge, Alderaan, etc.).

In raw power or potential, he really isn't. Discounting Nihilus, his Force-storm has the most destructive potential of any intentional assault ever conducted, and his Force mastery is relatively unchallenged, but he has his superiors in some regards. Dooku possibly demonstrated greater finesse with telekinesis than Sidious ever has, with Luke Skywalker, Kyp Durron, and Garen Malek have all shown far greater telekinetic power - with it being implied that Yoda could as well - and Darth Bane used it on a subatomic level, which I don't believe we've seen Sidious do. Mace, Jacen, Jaina, and Luke have all mastered the shatterpoint technique, which Cade Skywalker seemingly used a variant of, and also instinctively used, at fourteen, a power that literally brought his master back from death, with there being dozens of characters who've arguably shown a greater natural affinity for instinctive use of the Force than Sidious has.

Anyway, Luke has shown the most destructive ability with a lightsaber of pretty much anyone in the saga. He pretty much single-handedly took down a Yuuzhan Vong army in TUF, with Jacen and Jaina basically cleaning up behind him while being awed by his sheer power and speed, describing him as a "maelstrom" in the Force and noting that he appeared to be wielding twenty lightsabers at once. In the conclusion of DN, after ridding himself of the doubt that allowed Lomi Plo to defeat him, he pretty much owned Raynar Thul after taking a Force-push backed by the combined power of the entire Killik hive. Thul's power expenditure earlier was so great that it burned through his gloves, IIRC, and I believe Glentract said he bent away turbolaser blasts. Luke then proceeded to tool Lomi Plo with his weak left hand after getting shot in the right side by a now one-armed Thul. After musing that, even with his weak hand, he could fight better one-handed than anyone else in the entire Jedi Order, he casually sidesteps Lomi's final charge and literally carves her up.

So yeah, I think he could take Sidious without much threat to his own life. I bet you Gideon's responding to this right now.

And throw in that thing he said about " enough authority and comprehensive knowledge" regarding this stuff for me, too. It's just an opinion.

Some of the old post suggest NJO luke is a god. What happened?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Oh...so Sidious didn't create it?

I have no idea. Hopefully Gideon or Faunus will save the day, lol.

I think the source was Echoes of the Jedi.

Originally posted by Gideon
Palpatine was identified directly with the dark side of the Force and the 'shadow' that blunted the Jedi Order's perceptions throughout the entirety of the prequel trilogy in the Revenge of the Sith novelization.

It should be remembered that the Dark Side of the Force began clouding Jedi perceptions and in general, everything else as early as 200 BBY (Perhaps this was due to Plagueis' master? Or even Plagueis himself.)

Originally posted by Gideon
Moreover, the most incriminating evidence is how his birth -- the one person who could "embrace the dark side completely" (Labyrinth of Evil) -- yielded the creation of the Chosen One to bring balance to the Force by eliminating Palpatine (Vader: the Ultimate Visual Guide and The Essential Guide to Characters."

Erm, can you explain this statement more clearly? I didn't get what you were trying to say. Palpatine's birth? Plageuis' yielded the creation of the Chosen One. And what about eliminating Sids?

Originally posted by Enyalus
It should be remembered that the Dark Side of the Force began clouding Jedi perceptions and in general, everything else as early as 200 BBY (Perhaps this was due to Plagueis' master? Or even Plagueis himself.)

"The dark side has been gaining strength" in preparation for Darth Sidious. Labyrinth of Evil confirms that only he could "embrace the dark side fully."



Skywalker was the apparent creation of Plagueis according to the New Essential Chronology. It's not conclusive. And what I meant was that the Force created Anakin, the prophesied Chosen One, to destroy the Emperor. Not Darth Bane. Not Nihilus. Not Revan. Palpatine.

And I'm sorry if I came off antagonistic, Faunus. I didn't mean to be so rude. You know how I feel about you.

Ah, now I get it. Good points. Never thought about that before.

You're coming off as antagonistic. But it's okay. I know how you feel about me.

And I thought that the two points of yours I selected excluding the one about Sidious' effect on the Force (forgot the clouding thing) made it evident that I wasn't disputing his power but more your assertions that he could take Luke in combat, and that he was literally the be all end all of Force-users, when there are several people who can do things that he can't. I'm obviously not disputing that he's achieved more with the Force than any single individual, and I don't know where you would've gotten that impression. You're like a sick, male version of my mother.

Originally posted by Gideon
Emperor Palpatine was a master of the "most powerful Force technique ever" that was capable of "tearing the surfaces off worlds", transporting powerful Force users across the space/time continuum and deposit him within a Lictor-class dungeon ship, and destroying an entire fleet of state-of-the-art ships each equipped with shields capable of resisting gigatons of damage.What exactly were we arguing? Destructive potential? I suppose it's relative, since Nihilus' power affects life itself while ravages the surface of an entire planet, but fine.

You and your sarcasm.

People with arguably more potential? Based on speed of progression and seeming natural affinity? Nomi, Bane, Anakin, Starkiller, Luke, Leia, Kyp, Jacen, Jaina, Anakin II, Ben, Cade...

All but four are Skywalkers, and two are somewhat debatable, but there you go.



I'm confused, and judging by the "splitting hairs" thing so are you.

No one argued this. I'm refuting what appeared to be your presumption that he's better than everybody at everything related to the Force.

Sidious' greatest telekinetic feat, while certainly not his upper limit, was chucking several Senate pods at Yoda. Mace noted that Yoda could've simply and casually levitated a steamcrawler over a fissure, and the Jedi has already deflected with minimal effort a missile falling from orbit at tens of thousands of miles per hour IIRC, sealed a breach in a starship with his own power, lifted an X-Wing, and if the CW comics based on the cartoon are regarded, picked up a gun the size of a small house and carried it on his back.

When did I ever say they did?

Never even brought up Maul, and didn't even remotely suggest that Dooku could ever become more powerful than Sidious. You're splitting hairs.

Again, never suggested this.

That wasn't addressed directly to you, it was to everyone contending that Sidious would defeat Skywalker in personal combat.

I took NJO Luke to mean Luke at his current peak, which is what people are usually referring to. And you brought up his feats and faults from LotF as well, so I assumed that was fair game.

I've actually done no such thing, although perhaps I argued points that you'd never brought up. Which would be going off on a tangent. Get your antagonistic, condescending comments right.

Originally posted by Gideon
And I'm sorry if I came off antagonistic, Faunus. I didn't mean to be so rude. You know how I feel about you. I never even registered how out of character this is. You. Apologizing? For being a bastard?

And DarkSerpent making sense now? Jesus.

Originally posted by Faunus
I never even registered how out of character this is. You. Apologizing? For being a bastard?

And DarkSerpent making sense now? Jesus. Its the end of the world as we know it... and I feel fine.

Stalinism is much better.

HA HA HA! I WIN.

This is as close as it's going to get on the SWV. Maybe later I'll troll the religion forum, so here it is.

I'm calling Godwin's Law.

Actually, Gideon's comment was first rate Socratic irony.

If anyone remembers my position on Irony, they will know that I'm squirming in pleasure.

Your list of two was very clever.

I honestly couldn't tell if that was sarcastic or not. Some of what I do is to kill the funny at the Irony by explaining precisely why it is in fact Ironic.


Was that sarcasm?

No just wierd.

Originally posted by Jbill311
I honestly couldn't tell if that was sarcastic or not. Some of what I do is to kill the funny at the Irony by explaining precisely why it is in fact Ironic.


Was that sarcasm?

Nope. I was recalling the post you made listing 3 points, the first 2 being examples of irony...Hence my recalling your 'List of Two.'

Gotcha. I actually couldn't remember everything that I'd written. The 'teenage mind' part is a new bit to the explanation. Having an unorthodox personal quest does get kinda old what with re-framing the meaning into the cultural consciousness. Someday... Irony will replace unscripted/staged "reality shows". someday...