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Did a search found nothing.
Any ways who wins both at their peak
1.sabers
2.force
3.all out

Originally posted by Icy Ninja
Did a search found nothing.
Any ways who wins both at their peak
1.sabers
2.force
3.all out quickquote

I can't believe this hasn't been done, but...

1. Sabers - Caedus, 6/10.
2. Force - Bane, 6/10.
3. All-Out - Caedus, 5-6/10.

Could be a split, or could be that Caedus gets a narrow majority in the all-out. What gives Caedus the potential majority in the all-out, to me, is his Shatterpoint ability.

it actually HAS been done, but that's okay...

Two things stand out to me: If you take ROT's description of Bane seriously, he can pretty much stomp all comers. However, the very ESSENCE of the order he created was to insure that each subsequent sith was stronger than the one before. If this is true, it puts bane at the VERY BOTTOM of every sith between himself and darth sidious, in a simple a<b<c<d<e format.

if we use that as our basis of opinion, he is destroyed by caedus, a sith who was "more powerful than vader" who was 80% of sidious, the culmination of... yeah you know the quote.

however: caedus rise to power is VERY inconsistent. One moment he is described as exceedingly powerful, while the next, fooled and humiliated by Luke. (happens in book after book) While it is certainly no crime to be so far behind the Jedi Grand master, and the be-all and end all of force users in the history of the galaxy, it DOES put his darth vader comparisons into a position to be doubted.

I'm going with Bane, simply because it is unlikely that he was truly the WEAKEST sith in over 2000 years or w/e. I believe in the force, Jacen would hold a slight edge, while in saber skill, Jacen would be unable to solve the orbalisks problem in time to avoid dying, remember, Jacen was injured in EVERY SINGLE dual against a legit opponent he ever fought in as far as i know(exception Katarn), vs. Jaina, 2X, vs. Aurra Sing, vs. Luke (SEVERAL TIMES) and Mara, he was injured repeatedly. I don't see him holding out long enough with a blade to defeat Bane.

Because of this EXTREME gap in the lightsaber ability of Bane and Caedus, Bane would win the all-out, though i think a HUGE force battle would ensue first. If Caedus could destroy bane with the force before bane could force hand-to-hand combat, caedus would have a chance.

Originally posted by truejedi
it actually HAS been done, but that's okay...

Two things stand out to me: If you take ROT's description of Bane seriously, he can pretty much stomp all comers. However, the very ESSENCE of the order he created was to insure that each subsequent sith was stronger than the one before. If this is true, it puts bane at the VERY BOTTOM of every sith between himself and darth sidious, in a simple a<b<c<d<e format.

if we use that as our basis of opinion, he is destroyed by caedus, a sith who was "more powerful than vader" who was 80% of sidious, the culmination of... yeah you know the quote.

however: caedus rise to power is VERY inconsistent. One moment he is described as exceedingly powerful, while the next, fooled and humiliated by Luke. (happens in book after book) While it is certainly no crime to be so far behind the Jedi Grand master, and the be-all and end all of force users in the history of the galaxy, it DOES put his darth vader comparisons into a position to be doubted.

I'm going with Bane, simply because it is unlikely that he was truly the WEAKEST sith in over 2000 years or w/e. I believe in the force, Jacen would hold a slight edge, while in saber skill, Jacen would be unable to solve the orbalisks problem in time to avoid dying, remember, Jacen was injured in EVERY SINGLE dual against a legit opponent he ever fought in as far as i know(exception Katarn), vs. Jaina, 2X, vs. Aurra Sing, vs. Luke (SEVERAL TIMES) and Mara, he was injured repeatedly. I don't see him holding out long enough with a blade to defeat Bane.

Because of this EXTREME gap in the lightsaber ability of Bane and Caedus, Bane would win the all-out, though i think a HUGE force battle would ensue first. If Caedus could destroy bane with the force before bane could force hand-to-hand combat, caedus would have a chance. I always thought that about Bane's Order too, but factor in the underhand tactics of more... enterprising Apprentices and you get a line of ever more devious Sith albeit not exactly more powerful. I personally feel that Sidious is only Top Dog in history due to Lucas' say-so.

Right. I don't hold to that notion about Bane's order, either. Remember that Bane mentions Zannah's natural ability to grasp Sith magic, a trait Bane did not have. That means that she would have become an extremely powerful Sith sorceress, not necessarily that she'd become a better duelist or more powerful in raw Force powers such as Lightning or Choke.

Plus, anyone who holds to that theory is going to have to argue that given time, Darth Maul would have surpassed Darth Sidious in power. Remember that it was only only during TPM when Sidious was made aware of Plagueis' successful experiment. Prior to that, we should assume, he had chosen Maul to be his final (probably only) and best apprentice. His constant tests would be more evidence for this.

I like truejedi's point about Caedus being wounded in many of his duels. That might contradict him being such a 'saber beast' and throw saber estimate off.

I think Bane wins the sabers thanks to his orbalisks and his raw power and size 6/10

In the force, this is more difficult for me to judge as I know little about Caedus but i will give him the win due to having some Skywalker in him and he is said to be proficient in sith lighting witch seems to be the orbalisks weakness 6/10

All out I am going with Bane because i know more about him but it will be a hard fight for him 5.5/10

Originally posted by truejedi
it actually HAS been done, but that's okay...

Two things stand out to me: If you take ROT's description of Bane seriously, he can pretty much stomp all comers. However, the very ESSENCE of the order he created was to insure that each subsequent sith was stronger than the one before. If this is true, it puts bane at the VERY BOTTOM of every sith between himself and darth sidious, in a simple a<b<c<d<e format.

Almost all combers, yeah. Someone who can keep up with him in speed, exceeds him with sabers and force power, though?

One book to be fair.

How so? Luke should be so far above Vader a not even be a question

Jaina brought a cadre of Mandos to help her first time, took Jacen's arm-this at a point where Jacen's mental state is disintegrating- and he still beat her. The second time, Jacen allows her to kill him and hardly even tries to defend himself. Aurra was when he was HEAVILY distracted by Allana and Luke is just plain up best there ever was. Mara also forced a close quarter brawl and he still inflicted horrific injuries and killed her.
In all these duels, there are mitigating, outside factors. Jacen firmly outclassed Kyle and several others in sheer bladework and he has the shatterpoint ability besides. Stands to reason he could indeed survive long enough

I don't really see the gap in saber all that book. In sheer skill and ability, Caedus is easily on par with Bane, if not better

Originally posted by Tangible God
I always thought that about Bane's Order too, but factor in the underhand tactics of more... enterprising Apprentices and you get a line of ever more devious Sith albeit not exactly more powerful. I personally feel that Sidious is only Top Dog in history due to Lucas' say-so.

One of the best statements ever made on KMC yet.

the problem is: we have no way of comparing the brotherhood of darkness and ancient Jedi order with their modern counterparts. By all indications in literature, their strength should be about on par with the ROTS and beyond level combatants. However, its impossible to prove that. For all we know, ROT Bane< Ki Adi Mundi, we just don't know because we can't compare the jedi and sith of his era against their modern counterparts for the obvious reason of no overlapping duels. I should point out tho: the exact opposite applies, we can't prove that Zanna isn't > Yoda either. For the purpose of this thread, i went with the assumption that the top jedi and sith of those ancient orders were pretty even with the top jedi and sith of the more modern era. It can't be proven otherwise, just as i have no evidence to prove it.




2. Luke dominated Jacen in their confontation directly before the Jedi left kasshyk. (i posted the quote for that confrontatin in another thread, but the difference is crystal clear) Luke convinced Jacen he was dead before confronting him on the Anakin solo to rescue ben. Luke tricked Jacen into believing he was surrounded by an enemy fleet, even while Caedus was being told by his own men that there was nothing there.

And finally (what you were probably referring to) was Invincible, in which it is clear that everything Jacen saw in the force, (his supposed visions) were EXACTLY what luke wanted him to see. All along. (how about "the light side clouds everything hmmm?" He also managed to convince Jacen that he was fighting luke when instead he was fighting Jaina. I'm thinking no small feat there. But anyway, it was book after book.





thats true, luke would undoubtedly humiliate Vader in the same way, i concede that.


My point isn't that he wasn't good with a saber, i mean, he won all of those fights except against luke. If a football team loses 6 straight games, and has 6 really good excuses why they lost each one, the point still remains: They lost. No one is buying their excuses. part of winning is making sure that you don't have to make excuses afterwards. The point is: Jacen had these weaknesses that were exploited. (state of mind, distraction, distraction again against jaina) regardless, he kept getting hurt. If he was truly a "saber beast" my point remains, he would have won those fights without getting hurt DESPITE whatever he was up against.


we can't really know, not about saber abilities anyway, as i pointed out above. Bane was injured in his major fight against Jedi too, so you can't know the abiliy, the gap i spoke of was pretty much the orbalisks. Jacen is going to have to defend all of himself (which he has failed to do in the past,) and go straight for a head shot. I just don't see it happening.

utter failure in the bold category and double post in trying to fix it... failure!

At least you called yourself on it. I think (decree? do I have that power? Is it possible to learn this power?) that it makes you immune to other posts asserting your failure, Jean-Luc Picard's finger and all cat captions.

Originally posted by truejedi


the problem is: we have no way of comparing the brotherhood of darkness and ancient Jedi order with their modern counterparts. By all indications in literature, their strength should be about on par with the ROTS and beyond level combatants. However, its impossible to prove that. For all we know, ROT Bane< Ki Adi Mundi, we just don't know because we can't compare the jedi and sith of his era against their modern counterparts for the obvious reason of no overlapping duels. I should point out tho: the exact opposite applies, we can't prove that Zanna isn't > Yoda either. For the purpose of this thread, i went with the assumption that the top jedi and sith of those ancient orders were pretty even with the top jedi and sith of the more modern era. It can't be proven otherwise, just as i have no evidence to prove it.
Let's not go crazy there...there's significant evidence Bane> Ki-Adi by a good amount...it's comparing what we have to what's available and in that, we know Caedus is damned good.


Which, IIRC was all in Inferno, no?


Well, he did realize it was Jaina, though.



Yeah, saying someone is weaker because LUKE beats them? Doesn't really work too well


'Wasn't good' with a saber? you're selling him really short. As I said, all of those duels had serious mitigating factors and when he fights, injured, he's able to defeat Kyle Katarn being aided by other knights! That is pretty darned impressive

Unless Bane can:
A. Kidnap Allana
B. Ambush him in cave tunnels and force a bare knuckle brawl
C. Catch Caedus when he's trying to save Tenel Ka and Allana and hardly tries to defend himself
D. Brings a lot of Mandalorians to the fight
Then it's a bit irrelevant. Don't forget: Jacen still won the fights with Mara, Aurra and the first one with Jaina.

In sheer ability, Jacen was far above any of them.

Unlike Jacen, Bane's wounds heal instantly unless they're really, really permanent. Unlike Johun Othone, though, Jacen is good enough to just sever a hand, not just wound.

Jacen defended himself beautifully against Kyle and the others and in many a duel before. Don't forget, Bane's hands can still be severed and Jacen's shatterpoint ability will allow him to do just that. Jacen's probably faster than Bane and has incredible combat experience, too. Moreso than Bane by a good amount.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Unlike Jacen, Bane's wounds heal instantly unless they're really, really permanent. Unlike Johun Othone, though, Jacen is good enough to just sever a hand, not just wound.But unlike Johun, Jacen won't have one "exceptional" Jedi Master, the most skilled and legendary duelist in the Jedi Order, and the battle meditation assistance of a respectably powerful individual at his back and theirs'.

That said, that fight made no sense at all. Bane was repeatedly kicking all of their asses with his Force powers, and I don't get why Drew didn't provide a decent reason for him not ending the fight in the seconds he could have.

If he can capitalize on it, sure. Keep in mind that, unlike Jacen, Bane needs to pay no attention to his own safety. While Solo can handle the pain like a monster, Bane's absolutely invulnerable to harm save for those small gaps.

Aside from Luke - who owned him, not to his detriment in any way - Jacen's never fought anyone quite on Bane's level, although Kyle comes fairly close and Jaina, while somehow not quite there, is excellent in her own right.

But yes, he does, and he has a larger knowledge base than Bane as well, although for some reason he never demonstrates superior power.

Originally posted by Faunus
But unlike Johun, Jacen won't have one "exceptional" Jedi Master, the most skilled and legendary duelist in the Jedi Order, and the battle meditation assistance of a respectably powerful individual at his back and theirs'.
Admittedly...but considering his abilities in Fury, I think Jacen's enough of a powerhouse on his own.

Examples of when he could have?


Which is my point in a way. Djem so means Bane has to leave some gaps in defense to raise and swing and shatterpoint could be his nightmare

And he pretty much outclassed the latter two very well. I'd say Jacen can certainly stand up to Bane and certainly won't be pounded into dirty like most of Bane's opponents

Probably due to circumstances and all, but Jacen's a beast even before he goes Sith.

Sidenote...Faunus, did you hate the end of Rule of Two as much as I did?

Jedi: Well, that kid who had almost nothing of the Force in him and can't be older than 20 must have been the one to slaughter some of the best warriors we had without a single wound! No need to search the place, none at all!

Originally posted by Lightsnake

Jedi: Well, that kid who had almost nothing of the Force in him and can't be older than 20 must have been the one to slaughter some of the best warriors we had without a single wound! No need to search the place, none at all!

i hated it, it made them seem quite stupid. You can't make me believe that zannah mind persuaded all of them at once without them noticing. They didn't do anything a crime scene investigator would do, they just assumed they figured it out. I really thought bane was done for, and to be honest, the way the book is written, i was SO happy about it. (at least he got the orbalisks off, that was more than i should have been hoping for.)

(and lightsnake, at some point in that last post, you quoted me as saying caedus "wasn't very good with a saber" i in fact said "I'm not saying caedus wasn't very good with a saber" I've nothing against caedus, i just don't think he is on the highest level of combatants. all we had to support that opinion were quotes repeatedly from the book making it sound like no one but luke could stand against him.
(tho it does make it seem like he was very cautious to tangle with the jedi masters, and didn't want to fight 2 of them at once on any occasion.)

Oh, sorry, TJ....kinda missed that, heh...

But yeah, I was so hoping Bane was going to die but Karpsyhyn can't let his precious Baney DIE! That'd be UNTHINKABLE!

Truthfully I was hoping for that vile ***** Zannah to die even more. And for the Jedi to stop being IDIOTS.

Would it REALLY have cost Farfalla much to leave a NOTE on the whole 'We're going after the Sith on Tython' debacle?

Well, the Jedi of that era seemed was pretty dimwitted. So no surprise things haven't changed in a 1000 yrs.

When Raskta first burst into the room and lunged at Bane, bzzzzzzz!! Force Lightning to the chest...the end. Other than that, yeah, there didn't seem to be much of an opening.

I thought for sure Bane was going to die. But I thought it was clever how Zannah finally got up the courage to do what she should've let Bane do a decade earlier. Crime scene investigation isn't really the Jedi way, you know. Just look at the Jedi Temple massacre and Obi-Wan and Yoda coming back. They just kinda inferred and pieced it back together without any real evidence - until Obi took a look at the security cams. But Yoda had figured it out before that point. So it seemed somewhat believable and in character for me to see the Jedi just presume what had transpired.

With regards to the 'leaving a note' comment:

Less than two weeks ago Master Farfalla and four companions had hastily taken off from Coruscant, leaving behind word they were heading to Tython in pursuit of a Dark Lord of the Sith. They hadn't been heard from since. The message drone offered a grim explanation of their fate, and it drew an immediate response from the Jedi Council.

So it appears they did. And with regards to Zannah clouding their abilities to sense her, Bane, or even Darovit's power:

The Twi'lek reached out with the Force to try to sense whoever was hiding inside, but something-likely the strange, underlying power of the campsite itself-blurred his awareness.

And Darovit was only alive for a scant few seconds before he was cut down. I don't think they can sense the Force potential of a dead person - because being dead, they have no more Force potential. Lol.

So, anyways. I liked the ending. I thought it was pretty reasonable and within Jedi character. It also showed that Bane hadn't become a total roid raged idiot (he was thinking pretty accurately towards the end of the book), and gave Zannah a...darker image. I especially liked how she tortured Caleb by Force Crushing his internal organs.

Oh. Also. Bane laments what he's lost (the orbalisks)...but, recall that he knows where to find the orbalisks. Knows where they are located and knows how to unseal and use them properly. Plus, now he knows how to remove them. So there is a possibility that after Rule of Two he gets 'em back. It wouldn't be unthinkable.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Admittedly...but considering his abilities in Fury, I think Jacen's enough of a powerhouse on his own.Of course. And getting Kyp "lol i bettah dan Skywalkah" Durron's approval ("We know what he can do." for the position of Master is incredible in it's own right.

At any point in the duel; that's what I'm getting at. Farfalla had to use all of his power to lock a distracted Bane in stasis for a split second, and was sitting there stockpiling energy to assist Raskta. Hell, he had to push himself to keep her from being splattered against a wall when Bane just Force-pushed her - she has no defenses whatsoever, and Bane has displayed CWC-level displays of destructive telekinesis. Farfalla's barrier was just "tor through" by Bane's one-handed burst of lightning, and Raskta had to jump in and save his ass with her lightsabers. And at the one point where he's wounded, he hurls all three opponents back over thirty feet. Seeing as how he was up against Farfalla, who was owned in two moves once Bane got him alone, Raskta, who had zero Force-defenses, and Johun, who's the worst Jedi ever, it's a safe bet that consistent writing would've had him crushing them all into oblivion in seconds.

True. It's possible, I'm not discounting it, but Jacen needs to kill with his strokes, or it's not even worth the effort.

Hell, he has a fair shot at defeating Bane, I won't dispute that.

NJO treated him well, DN made him stupid. But yeah, he's been good.

I hated the book. The ending was better than most of the BS that came before, IMO, and I definitely agree with getting rid of the orbalisks and giving his presumed future death at the hands of Zannah some plausibility.

Don't forget that other Jedi Master he was taking on at the same time, too...I don't even remember the name. Some kind of non-human, though.

Sarro was taking Zannah, and he was a Knight. Worror was the Jedi Master providing battle meditation.

Originally posted by Enyalus
When Raskta first burst into the room and lunged at Bane, bzzzzzzz!! Force Lightning to the chest...the end. Other than that, yeah, there didn't seem to be much of an opening.

I thought for sure Bane was going to die. But I thought it was clever how Zannah finally got up the courage to do what she should've let Bane do a decade earlier. Crime scene investigation isn't really the Jedi way, you know. Just look at the Jedi Temple massacre and Obi-Wan and Yoda coming back. They just kinda inferred and pieced it back together without any real evidence - until Obi took a look at the security cams. But Yoda had figured it out before that point. So it seemed somewhat believable and in character for me to see the Jedi just presume what had transpired.

With regards to the 'leaving a note' comment:

Less than two weeks ago Master Farfalla and four companions had hastily taken off from Coruscant, leaving behind word they were heading to Tython in pursuit of a Dark Lord of the Sith. They hadn't been heard from since. The message drone offered a grim explanation of their fate, and it drew an immediate response from the Jedi Council.

So it appears they did. And with regards to Zannah clouding their abilities to sense her, Bane, or even Darovit's power:

The Twi'lek reached out with the Force to try to sense whoever was hiding inside, but something-likely the strange, underlying power of the campsite itself-blurred his awareness.

And Darovit was only alive for a scant few seconds before he was cut down. I don't think they can sense the Force potential of a dead person - because being dead, they have no more Force potential. Lol.

So, anyways. I liked the ending. I thought it was pretty reasonable and within Jedi character. It also showed that Bane hadn't become a total roid raged idiot (he was thinking pretty accurately towards the end of the book), and gave Zannah a...darker image. I especially liked how she tortured Caleb by Force Crushing his internal organs.

Oh. Also. Bane laments what he's lost (the orbalisks)...but, recall that he knows where to find the orbalisks. Knows where they are located and knows how to unseal and use them properly. Plus, now he knows how to remove them. So there is a possibility that after Rule of Two he gets 'em back. It wouldn't be unthinkable.

I also recall from the PT of the Jedi being trained to solve some pretty tough mysteries, apply logic and reasoning skills and at least be SURE of things...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I also recall from the PT of the Jedi being trained to solve some pretty tough mysteries, apply logic and reasoning skills and at least be SURE of things...

...They killed their suspect, the other lightsabers were sitting right there, there was no one else in the hut (that they could tell), and the owner of the hut was outside in pieces, killed by a lightsaber. The only person wielding a lightsaber...

See how the pieces fit? They wouldn't have any reason to think of it as a big mystery. The message Zannah sent off didn't mention anything about the Sith Lord's apprentice or anyone else besides the helpless Sith Lord and the healer. Open and shut case, for all they knew.

Originally posted by Faunus
Of course. And getting Kyp "lol i bettah dan Skywalkah" Durron's approval ("We know what he can do." for the position of Master is incredible in it's own right.
Hehe, I forget that from Kyp. Oh, you know Kyp's a jackass when Mara and Corran cheerfully discuss murdering him behind his back. In front of Luke

Yes, good point. Seems Bane didn't read his Evil Overlord List.
Gotta LOVE how Sarro screws everything up, too, hm?

Well, unlike Johun, a stroke from Jacen to lose Bane a hand probably won't bloody well miss.

I blame DN for the whole thing. I can't recall staring in slack jawed shock when he was watching the holo of Vader strangling Padme and thinking. "That guy ROCKS!"

Really? What was good about it? I personally found the idea of the Jedi just leaving like that and not even considering Darovit would have been TEN YEARS OLD when Ruusan was done remotely plausible.
Essentially, it bugged me a LITTLE how Karpyshyn just can't kill his pet characters. Whenever he talks about how awesome anyone else is, it's for the purpose of making his babies look even BETTER. And really, is Zannah supposed to even be sympathetic throughout the book? I mean, the part where she shoots a kid in cold blood? Charming.

Originally posted by Enyalus
...They killed their suspect, the other lightsabers were sitting right there, there was no one else in the hut (that they could tell), and the owner of the hut was outside in pieces, killed by a lightsaber. The only person wielding a lightsaber...

See how the pieces fit? They wouldn't have any reason to think of it as a big mystery. The message Zannah sent off didn't mention anything about the Sith Lord's apprentice or anyone else besides the helpless Sith Lord and the healer. Open and shut case, for all they knew.
The suspect who cannot possibly be old enough to be a full fledged Sith Lord who survived Ruusan, has not even a mark or resonance of power on him to have killed two of the greatest Jedi alive...

That and the possibility of the Sith having an apprentice around. At least look for a HOLOCRON and be sure you've finished the job.

For Jacen's sake, it had better be his lightsaber hand...and even then, I'd fear for his safety. We saw how pissed off Bane got when Johun clipped him. His Force Scream was massive. I can't imagine how much more powerful his reaction would be if the hand was actually severed. Jacen would need to go for the kill, in one swift move. Anything that would injure him would be like hitting a grizzly bear in the face with a rock...and not pretty.

EDIT: Holocrons were a lost art. Why would they look for one?

Originally posted by Enyalus
For Jacen's sake, it had better be his lightsaber hand...and even then, I'd fear for his safety. We saw how pissed off Bane got when Johun clipped him. His Force Scream was massive. I can't imagine how much more powerful his reaction would be if the hand was actually severed. Jacen would need to go for the kill, in one swift move. Anything that would injure him would be like hitting a grizzly bear in the face with a rock...and not pretty.
Caedus's incredible force strength might be able to resist being blown through defense.

And I sincerely doubt Caedus would miss an opportunity like that. If Bane loses a hand, Caedus is going to follow up to the head...and given his shatterpoint, he might time it to slice through the wrist to the head in one stroke

Originally posted by Lightsnake
and given his shatterpoint, he might time it to slice through the wrist to the head in one stroke

He's not dueling Johun...how badly would Bane suck to be put in that position? Seriously. lol

Bane doesn't give ANY heed to defense, as evidenced by Johun being the one to wound him. Caedus's shatterpoint would be much the same. It's just timing the stroke right

That's a good point. However, if you're going to use the argument that Bane won't be using any defense in this battle, then what is to prevent Caedus from getting the first strike in immediately, and Bane striking him down before he can even wonder why there's no saber slash across Bane's chest? Raskta essentially did the same thing to Bane, blitzing him right away. The only reason she was able to avoid being bowled over and run through was because 1) she was amped by battle meditation and 2) she's an Echani, and they have faster-than-human reflexes.

I think that, in a one on one duel, he might want to use his full skills against another exceptionally skilled opponent. He doesn't seem to have much of a sense of honor, but he might view it as a way to brush up on his skills. Wouldn't have been surprised if he had done so with Raskta, but having to deal with other opponents meant ending the contest as soon as possible, and that meant all-out offense.







Hey LS, what did you think of my last post in the Maul/Ventress thread?

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's a good point. However, if you're going to use the argument that Bane won't be using any defense in this battle, then what is to prevent Caedus from getting the first strike in immediately, and Bane striking him down before he can even wonder why there's no saber slash across Bane's chest? Raskta essentially did the same thing to Bane, blitzing him right away. The only reason she was able to avoid being bowled over and run through was because 1) she was amped by battle meditation and 2) she's an Echani, and they have faster-than-human reflexes.
Caedus's own speed is pretty freaking insane. And given by his point in the galaxy, who Bane was is common knowledge enough to be written about by Voren Na'Al with the orbalisks, too, so Jacen, who, bar none likely knows more about galactic zoology than anyone else alive, is gonna get the picture pretty fast.

And don't forget Jacen'd spent five years fighting guys he couldn't cut immediately without the force helping him out. After the Vong, orbalisks won't be much an issue

Possibly...but Caedus is just plain vicious in battle. And he's comparable of Bane with speed. Pretty exceptional there.







I haven't seen it, lemme go look

So, you've quite artfully dodged giving an official judgment to the contest. What do you think with regards to sabers, force, and all-out in this contest?

Difficult to say. In the Force, I'd give Caedus the edge given his superiority to Vader, who was eight tenths of Palpatine, and he's a beast with Force Lightning, especially in close quarters. Sabers...Caedus, slight edge. His shatterpoint and, put simply, psychotically powerful dueling skills make a very lethal combo. Plus his era's knowledge of Bane and his incredible knowledge of the Force and zoology.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Difficult to say. In the Force, I'd give Caedus the edge given his superiority to Vader, who was eight tenths of Palpatine, and he's a beast with Force Lightning, especially in close quarters. Sabers...Caedus, slight edge. His shatterpoint and, put simply, psychotically powerful dueling skills make a very lethal combo. Plus his era's knowledge of Bane and his incredible knowledge of the Force and zoology.

*shakes his head* I've already attempted to defend Bane to the best of my abilities. I'm just not strong enough in the Taven. The Taven is not with me tonight.

Don't worry, you've done a fine job of it without resorting to dismissing anything that hurts your argument or outright lies and hypocrisy.

I really don't understand why I was defending Bane in the first place, considering my stance on the first page:

Originally posted by Enyalus
I can't believe this hasn't been done, but...

1. Sabers - Caedus, 6/10.
2. Force - Bane, 6/10.
3. All-Out - Caedus, 5-6/10.

Could be a split, or could be that Caedus gets a narrow majority in the all-out. What gives Caedus the potential majority in the all-out, to me, is his Shatterpoint ability.

Heh. Must be my love of conflict. Being Faunus' avatar is a tough life.

Tough, yet rewarding.

Personally, I'd give Bane the edge in a battle with Solo. He's already demonstrated disturbing levels of speed even over distances - he sprinted at something like 120 kilometers per hour without an indication of exertion or weariness, before he gained the armor - as well as at close range, against individual enemies. His strength, with the parasites factored in, is obscene. His own feats of power really do surpass anything we've seen the walking cliche do; vaporizing multiple people and almost doing the same to their thirty foot-long mount, while in the air, with one hand? Blowing apart an entire camp, and earlier an entire temple, with a telekinetic blast? Manipulation of matter at the subatomic levels? And of course, a suit of impenetrable armor? Really, he can stand to lose a hand here, since he can block a saber strike with any part of his body below the neck that's not his wrist or ankle. Solo, as much of a beast as he is, will die if he's wounded badly enough. While he managed to hold his own incredibly well against his pissed off uncle while sustaining burn wounds that would've made PT warriors cry, the loss of a limb or a serious stab would mean nigh instant death against Bane.

That said, it could easily swing in Solo's favor with a little luck and perhaps some rarely seen ingenuity, but I'm leaning towards the older Dark Lord.

Caedus curbstomps.

does Caedus know how to both attack and defend?

gttng tird of ur bmping sht

bump

Someone explain to me why Bane doesn't get molested

Because Caedus doesn't swing that way.

Bane has transcended lightsaber forms, therefore he stomps.

kek