Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Set in the Trayus core.
1. Lightsaber only
2. Force only
3. All out.

I think Vader would win 2 and 3, and probably one as well because he uses a form based mostly on his immense physical strength, which is Makashi's weakness, although it is debatable.

1. I don't see Dooku resisting Vader's strength in sabers, though he may be able to out-maneuver him. Maybe.

2. With no lightsaber to block Dooku's lightning, even Vader's powerful TK couldn't save his respiratory system. Lest there's something I'm not aware of.

3. Vader's powerful enough to withstand Dooku's sabers strikes and lightning, and his proficient TK could defeat Dooku. Though, I don't like to downplay Dooku too much, he's still very, very good.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
I think Vader would win 2 and 3, and probably one as well because he uses a form based mostly on his immense physical strength, which is Makashi's weakness, although it is debatable.


I think it makes sense. Makashi involves quick wrist flicks and precise strikes. If you were to grip your lightsaber roughly your wrists wouldn't be able to move around much, so you're pretty much required to grip your lightsaber a bit more gentle then average... meaning a hard enough strike could you *** you up pretty bad.

1. Sabers - Vader, 6/10.
2. Force - Vader, 8/10.
3. All-Out - Vader, 7/10.

Vader in Sabers because at this point in his career he's got not only tons of experience in combat, but tons of experience in combat against Jedi. He managed to beat a ressurected Darth Maul. He can take massive amounts of damage, as shown from the Conclave on Kessel, his duel with Darth Maul, and even his battle with Luke in ESB. He's managed to master all of Form V by this time, and modify it enough that Dooku would have difficulty recognizing its patterns. Furthermore, this Vader is stronger than the Anakin who managed to thoroughly overpower him in ROTS.

Vader in the Force because Vader's TK ability surpasses Dooku's. He's 80% of Sidious' power. And Dooku's Lightning can be deflected or blocked with his saber. It was also an impressive feat (to me) that Vader Force Choked to death his admiral on the Death Star, who was probably several miles away at the time (remember that the Death Star is the size of a small moon, and they were using the vid screen to communicate). Also, isn't it established in The Force Unleashed novelization that Vader has Force Lightning of his own?

EDIT: Good point, TG. Why do I always forget in Force only there wouldn't be a lightsaber? Meh. I don't give a damn. Vader breaks Dooku's fragile, arthritic neck with the Force.

1. Vader he may not be as skilled as the Count but he is much stronger and won't tire as quickly as Dooku which appear to be his weaknesses but this won be easy

2. Dooku force lighting bye bye Vader

3. Vader will most likely be able to block Dooku lighting with his saber and get close enough to engage in a saber battle, add in Vader impressive TK skills and he should win 6-7/10

You seem to forget you dont need a saber to block force lightning. You can block it with the force. Yoda did it with relative ease, and vader is just as adept at using the force as yoda.

Only problem is that Vader doesn't have synthetic limbs, meaning he can neither manifest nor block lightning using his hands.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
You seem to forget you dont need a saber to block force lightning. You can block it with the force. Yoda did it with relative ease, and vader is just as adept at using the force as yoda.
As far as I know he is the only one to do that and Vader is below Yoda in the force

says who? Vader has shown TK abilities far surpassing anything i have seen Yoda do, and the lightning isn't blocked with his HANDS, it is blocked with the FORCE. Quite a difference.

Ah, that's right. Afterall, he did use his hand to stop blaster bolts.



The Force can only be channeled through organic material. Prosthetic limbs wouldn't be included. Which is why Vader's only 80% of Palpatine's power when he had the potential, undamaged, of being 200% of Palpatine.

In a force fight, it seriously depends on who strikes first and what they strike with, if vader manages to throw an intense TK attacked at dooku before he fires his lightning, then theres a chance that vader would defeat the count though it wouldn't be easy.

However, if dooku takes a blast at vader with force lightning if vader does not react in time, then its likely vader dies unless he conjures up a defence to shield him from the lightning.

What ever the case, i don't think it would be easy for them to beat each other.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
In a force fight, it seriously depends on who strikes first and what they strike with, if vader manages to throw an intense TK attacked at dooku before he fires his lightning, then theres a chance that vader would defeat the count though it wouldn't be easy.
I was wondering this myself what attack would land first a TK attack from Vader or lighting from Dooku.

Question can we even be sure that Dookus lighting will be powerful enough to short circuit Vaders life support since the only person that ever hit him with force lighting was Palpatine the undisputed master of force lighting

Dooku has the saber battle, Vader has the force fight (someone of his capacity and dark side mastery would know how to BLOCK lightning. He can just crush Dooku or ragdoll him subsequently). The all-out? I'm leaning towards Vader, but I'd say Dooku can take it as well.

It really depends on the circumstances and situation.

As for the saber battle, i'm not an expert on that so i won't make a case yet.

Dooku has quicker reflexes, faster blade-work, and superior technical skill/finesse; the advantages that let Anakin beat Dooku are no longer in place; Dooku is simply quicker than Vader, unlike Anakin, who cornered Dooku with his physical strength and speed to boot. I would say that Dooku certainly has the saber battle.

Yes i agree Dooku takes the saber battle.. Vader was hardly a match for old Ben in sabers. and since Dooku can handle greivous without too much difficulty, I cant see him losing to Vader in Sabers at least.

as for the force, I think Vader will just about takes it.. and I mean JUST ABOUT!

I mean lets not forget this is the Dooku who has Ventress on the floor by merely lifting a finger, dominates ROTS Obi-Wan mid saber fight with a simple flick of the wrist and easily overpowers Clone Wars Anakin in a Force fight as well.

All Out- anyone can take this. Good Match up.

Maybe it is not the same but I will bring it up. Vader block three laser shot with his hands. Shouldn't he be able to block Dooku's force lighting?

When Yoda blocked force lighting, he did it purely through the force. Does it really matter what your body is made of? If Vader cannot block it with the force then he is dead, if he can then I see him definitely winning against Dooku.

D. Power, the LoE novel notes that Dooku was often 'hard-pressed' to beat Grievous; in addition, Vader dominated old Ben. Get the facts right, please, although I agree that Dooku has the saber match.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
D. Power, the LoE novel notes that Dooku was often 'hard-pressed' to beat Grievous; in addition, Vader dominated old Ben. Get the facts right, please, although I agree that Dooku has the saber match.

Please read carefully before accusing me of getting my facts wrong..

I said he can handle Greivous without "TOO much difficulty.." often hard pressed is not the same and does not go that far in terms of difficulty.. and that was just Dooku sparring Greivous as part of his training.

I mean do you really think if Dooku went ALL OUT on Greivous that Greivous would stand even a chance against him in a saber fight???

As for Vader vs. Old Ben, maybe I didnt explain properley there.. but what I meant was Old Ben was still putting up a decent fight against him, and Vader only killed him when Ben allowed him. and its not like Vader was kicking the crap out of him, like ROTS Dooku surely would have to the old hermit.

Actually, one doesn't need to have a lightsaber or have to be Yoda to block lightning with their hands. Kyp Durron did it to Jaina Solo's lightning (which was strong enough to kill the Force-immune Yuuzhan Vong) in Dark Journey, and we know Vader's way over Kyp in Force ability.

So...

1. Dooku, though with some difficulty.
2. Vader, he can turn away blaster bolts with his hands, and they're more powerful than Force lightning.
3. Vader again.

For the saber battle, Vader is not slow! Read Purge, http://www.swtimeline.ru/?view=896&size=M&page=112 and that is only Vader RIGHT AFTER he got his suit. Vader only seems slow because of the old movies. If you read any novel or comic book, they go to great lengths to show that Vader is not slow at all! So he still has the full advantage over Dooku that he had in ROTS, plus much greater strength.

hes not slow.. and hed definetely beat the crap out of the vast majority of jedis/siths just in a saber battle.. but as per Lucas's statements he did lose a lot of potential in the suit, and a lot of mobility.. so hes still good, but no where near as good as he was.

So no, he doesnt have the same advantages he had over Dooku in ROTS. He is however much better with the Force. In ROTS Dooku was still better than Anakin in that regard.. however OT Vader is easily a match for Dooku in this regard now.. in fact most people seem to agree that he probably beats him in this area, despite being weak to Force Lightning.

hmm

1. i think dooku may take this one as he has great speed and although beaten by vaders strengh, could out manouver him

2. event though vader lost much mobility in his suit, his force powers have gotten much better as Darth Power said dookus lighting can be blocked with a lightsaber.

even though vader is weak to lightning hence the suit he could just block it with pure force and force dooku into the dephts of trayus core

3.cant be bothered to write this

(opinions people OPINIONS!)

This has been done before, and no side would concede. This will be rather pointless. If you want my arguments for Vader, then dig up the other long ass thread.

I must admit this can be argued both ways and agree with Darth Subjekt that it could end up pointless..

but I love both these characters anyway(my favorites), so im not bothered who wins this argument.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Dooku has quicker reflexes, faster blade-work, and superior technical skill/finesse; the advantages that let Anakin beat Dooku are no longer in place; Dooku is simply quicker than Vader, unlike Anakin, who cornered Dooku with his physical strength and speed to boot. I would say that Dooku certainly has the saber battle.

It won't be ownage though.

Dooku's style requires those quick reflex's with momentum to parry his opponents attack but however i am sure dooku cannot clash with vaders saber head to head due to vaders incredible strength.

For either to win in this category, it once again depends on what they do during the duel.

Dooku hit Obi-Wan twice in AOTC and wasn't able to cripple him. Compare that with Vader who took a full force blow on the shoulder from Luke and proceeded to cut Luke's hand off in retaliation.

...Yeah. Dooku isn't winning the saber battle.

Dooku was toying with Kenobi. He taunts him about his skills after each hit, and I got the impression that had he wanted to take Kenobi's arm, he could have.

Originally posted by Jbill311
Dooku was toying with Kenobi. He taunts him about his skills after each hit, and I got the impression that had he wanted to take Kenobi's arm, he could have.

No, he taunts him about his saber skills before Kenobi's hit. If he had wanted to take an arm the first time, how come Dooku stands over Kenobi with his saber raised, ready to kill him before Anakin jumps back in?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Dooku hit Obi-Wan twice in AOTC and wasn't able to cripple him. Compare that with Vader who took a full force blow on the shoulder from Luke and proceeded to cut Luke's hand off in retaliation.

...Yeah. Dooku isn't winning the saber battle.

I actually had to read that first part twice, because at first I thought you were joking. But then I realised you're just mentally handicapped.

It was blatantly obvious that Dooku did not want to kill, or even severely injure Obi-Wan, when he did this. If I recall, only 20 minutes beforehand Dooku was offering Kenobi a chance to become his apprentice, so that together " will destroy the sith!" I also urge you to rewatch the scene. Right before the Count disables Obi-Wan he has a look of pure arrogance and glee. He knows he is about to win.

In summary, the fact Dooku didn't completely severe Obi-Wan's arm and leg speaks volume for his accuracy and finesse.

As for the thread; Dooku wins all three.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I actually had to read that first part twice, because at first I thought you were joking. But then I realised you're just mentally handicapped.

It was blatantly obvious that Dooku did not want to kill, or even severely injure Obi-Wan, when he did this.

But a second later, when Obi-Wan is on the ground, Dooku does? Yeah. Because that makes total sense.

Because he's a bad guy and bad guys like to gloat first.

And let's also not forget that Vader wears incredibly thick armor that is also blaster resistant and has a cortosis weave in it.

And that dooku's strikes are quick and light unlike vaders blows which are powerful.

Luke slammed his lightsaber pretty hard onto vaders shoulder guard, i don't see a lighter strike like dooku's decapitating him completely.

Originally posted by Enyalus
But a second later, when Obi-Wan is on the ground, Dooku does? Yeah. Because that makes total sense.

How about you actually read what I said:

Originally posted by Rampant ox
It was blatantly obvious that Dooku did not want to kill, or even severely injure Obi-Wan, when he did this.

Bolded for effect. When Dooku did the particular manoeuvre which disabled Kenobi, he was not trying to completely severe his arm and leg. As one of the most arrogant characters in the Star Wars mythos, I would imagine he wanted to highlight his duelling prowess to Kenobi before he went in for the kill.

Ox, do you like the way dooku was portrayed in the clone wars movie?

I've yet to see it. In terms of appearance, from what I've seen in previews and the like, he looks very mediocre. His face and beard seem rather long and pointed, and lack Mr Lee's chiseled good looks.

On the plus though, Mr Lee is providing the voice again - so on that front I have absolutely no worries.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
It won't be ownage though.

Dooku's style requires those quick reflex's with momentum to parry his opponents attack but however i am sure dooku cannot clash with vaders saber head to head due to vaders incredible strength.

For either to win in this category, it once again depends on what they do during the duel.

Yeah, I always thought Vader was a ridiculously underestimated saber combatant, with the common "OMG HE'S T00 SL@W!!!" argument coming everywhere. Still, Dooku's bladework IS too fast and percise for Vader- I doubt it will be a curbstomp, but Dooku should take a safe 7 or 8/10.

Dooku is finesse and efficiency; Vader is strength and power. But Darth Vader, in Street of Shadows (the new Coruscant Nights book) is able to evade the unimaginably lithe and agile assassin Aurra Sing when she, in a fit of rage, attacks Vader. The omniscient narrator goes on to detail that he is toying with her, never attacking, and keeps his lightsaber at his belt. He dodges and evades her attacks and lightly taps her instead of beating the hell out of her, demonstrating the fact that he could immobilize her at any given time. Moreover, after a while, Vader evades her and uses a casual surge of telekinetic energy to throw her to the floor and keep her there.

It says that the guards out in the hall way are nearly thrown off their feat, even though the concussion wasn't directed near them at all. Also in that book, he uses the Force to summon one of Sing's lightsabers to him, grips it, and overloads the blade through sheer will, leaving it a useless metal hilt. Sing is in awe.

Yeah, Vader's badass.

He sure is, i remember something in jedi twilight mentioning that vader would have beaten kar vastor.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
He sure is, i remember something in jedi twilight mentioning that vader would have beaten kar vastor.

Nick Rosti believes he would manhandle Vastor.

Well i just read the little fight between vader and galen in the TFU comic, it seems there wasn't any ownage on either side and that starkiller collapsed a massive pillar on vader which breaks his helmet, vader was merely kneeling after getting knocked off guard.

Whats interesting is that after vader got knocked down, he actually affirmed starkiller and called him a dark side master.

The fights depicted in the comic are much more realistic than the game and not so "DBZ apeshit l33t pwnage" and the apprentice isn't THAT overpowered from what i have seen.

Heres the vader vs starkiller duel, its relatively short yet believable and realistic, both of them got a chance to kick the shit out of each other.

Scene 1
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/7307/theforceunleashed111uh3.jpg

Scene 2

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/2084/theforceunleashed112vs0.jpg

The comic shows them striking each other three times. Starkiller lands the first blow across Vader's chest, Vader hurls him through a glass barrier, Starkiller collapses pillars on top of him. Advantage: Starkiller. Is Vader helpless at this point? Hardly, not nearly as much as the novelization depicts. But he did lose the engagement and he was damaged.

Originally posted by Gideon
Dooku is finesse and efficiency; Vader is strength and power. But Darth Vader, in Street of Shadows (the new Coruscant Nights book) is able to evade the unimaginably lithe and agile assassin Aurra Sing when she, in a fit of rage, attacks Vader. The omniscient narrator goes on to detail that he is toying with her, never attacking, and keeps his lightsaber at his belt. He dodges and evades her attacks and lightly taps her instead of beating the hell out of her, demonstrating the fact that he could immobilize her at any given time. Moreover, after a while, Vader evades her and uses a casual surge of telekinetic energy to throw her to the floor and keep her there.

It says that the guards out in the hall way are nearly thrown off their feat, even though the concussion wasn't directed near them at all. Also in that book, he uses the Force to summon one of Sing's lightsabers to him, grips it, and overloads the blade through sheer will, leaving it a useless metal hilt. Sing is in awe.

Yeah, Vader's badass.

That's cool on so many levels...I've gotta pick up that book.

And should show that he wouldn't be totally helpless against Makashi's faster style.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Well i just read the little fight between vader and galen in the TFU comic, it seems there wasn't any ownage on either side and that starkiller collapsed a massive pillar on vader which breaks his helmet, vader was merely kneeling after getting knocked off guard.

Whats interesting is that after vader got knocked down, he actually affirmed starkiller and called him a dark side master.

The fights depicted in the comic are much more realistic than the game and not so "DBZ apeshit l33t pwnage" and the apprentice isn't THAT overpowered from what i have seen.

Heres the vader vs starkiller duel, its relatively short yet believable and realistic, both of them got a chance to kick the shit out of each other.

Scene 1
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/7307/theforceunleashed111uh3.jpg

Scene 2

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/2084/theforceunleashed112vs0.jpg The art reminds me of the Clone Wars-era comics, in Republic and such. Awesome.

And yeah, the comic's version of the fight looks great. Do you have the rest of the comic, by any chance?

I'm like the depiction of an injured Vader with half his mask off.

Isn't he supposed to... like, die if his helmet is broken?

Still, fight looks awesome. And it looks like this just puts Vader up in the food chain (since, well, Galen technically only beat him when the force was involved; the lightsaber duel was apparently even).

In the lightsaber duel Gavin sliced his lite-bright battery in half.

Originally posted by Faunus
The art reminds me of the Clone Wars-era comics, in Republic and such. Awesome.

And yeah, the comic's version of the fight looks great. Do you have the rest of the comic, by any chance? You can download it from swtimeline.ru, its on the first page i think or i can send it to you if you want.

Originally posted by Gideon
The comic shows them striking each other three times. Starkiller lands the first blow across Vader's chest, Vader hurls him through a glass barrier, Starkiller collapses pillars on top of him. Advantage: Starkiller. Is Vader helpless at this point? Hardly, not nearly as much as the novelization depicts. But he did lose the engagement and he was damaged. Yea but the comic depicted that he barely took any damage from the pillars and still was able to affirm starkiller.

The novel made it look like ownage but the comic made vader look more badass.

So in a way, galen actually made vader look like a far more powerful combatant.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
In the lightsaber duel Gavin sliced his lite-bright battery in half.

Ownage.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
In the lightsaber duel Gavin sliced his lite-bright battery in half.

but thats part of the advantage of being more machine than man.. if he had no machine parts then that slice would have killed him for sure.