NJO Luke vs Any Two (Saber Fight)

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Kotor3
Rules:

Select any two people in the history of star wars who actually worked together that you thank could defeat NJO Luke in saber combat.

Must be two people who lived in the same time period and were:
1. A actually team or
2. Had dealings with each other

Elite Hunter
A few off the top of my head that have a good chance would be

RoT Bane and Zannah

Mace Windu and Yoda

Darth Vader and Sidious

Dooku and Sidious

possibly ROTS Anakin and Obiwan.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
A few off the top of my head that have a good chance would be

RoT Bane and Zannah

Mace Windu and Yoda

Darth Vader and Sidious

Dooku and Sidious

possibly ROTS Anakin and Obiwan.

As expected, good list Elite. Surprise you did not add Maul and Sidious.

I am going to mess everything up and say as a Kotor fan I will add Revan and Malak to the list. roll eyes (sarcastic)

caedusrulesall
I agree with Elite, though I think some of them (Bane and Zannah, Windu and Yoda) might have a tough time with it. Though Anakin and Obi-Wan wouldn't make the list, since in their fight against Dooku on the Invisible Hand Dooku managed to knock Obi-Wan unconscious and gave Anakin a tough time until he gave into the Dark Side. NJO Luke would beat Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Kotor3: I don't think that Maul and Sidious could do it, but Revan and Malak might.

If we're getting completely unrealistic (though still bound by the rules of the thread), I think that if DE Sidious and Dark Side DE Luke teamed up, they could beat Luke's future self. Though that's only if there could be two Lukes...

Lord Knightfa11
its luuke!

caedusrulesall
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
its luuke!

Maybe, though Luuke was nothing but an extension of Joruus C'baoth's mind.

Kotor3
Originally posted by caedusrulesall
I agree with Elite, though I think some of them (Bane and Zannah, Windu and Yoda) might have a tough time with it. Though Anakin and Obi-Wan wouldn't make the list, since in their fight against Dooku on the Invisible Hand Dooku managed to knock Obi-Wan unconscious and gave Anakin a tough time until he gave into the Dark Side. NJO Luke would beat Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Kotor3: I don't think that Maul and Sidious could do it, but Revan and Malak might.

If we're getting completely unrealistic (though still bound by the rules of the thread), I think that if DE Sidious and Dark Side DE Luke teamed up, they could beat Luke's future self. Though that's only if there could be two Lukes...

Even though your statement is true concerning DE Sidious and Luke, I'm sorry only one incarnation of Luke is allowed.

Why not maul? Isn't maul better in saber combat than Zannah?

caedusrulesall
Originally posted by Kotor3
Even though your statement is true concerning DE Sidious and Luke, I'm sorry only one incarnation of Luke is allowed.

Why not maul? Isn't maul better in saber combat than Zannah?

Well never mind then.

Yes, Maul is much better than Zannah, but I think Bane is the real force in the Bane and Zannah part, simply because as of RoT he has the orbalisks, and if there isn't any Force allowed there's no way around the orbalisks.

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by caedusrulesall
I agree with Elite, though I think some of them (Bane and Zannah, Windu and Yoda) might have a tough time with it. Though Anakin and Obi-Wan wouldn't make the list, since in their fight against Dooku on the Invisible Hand Dooku managed to knock Obi-Wan unconscious and gave Anakin a tough time until he gave into the Dark Side. NJO Luke would beat Anakin and Obi-Wan.

It's strict saber combat so Luke couldn't use the force to pull a Dooku but that is of the teams that I have the most doubts about.

Kotor3
No one mentions Ulic or Kun anymore in saber fights. I will for this one.

caedusrulesall
Originally posted by Kotor3
No one mentions Ulic or Kun anymore in saber fights. I will for this one.

Ulic and Kun are a strange pair. Kun is many times, on this forum, vastly underrated, while Ulic is vastly overrated. I don't think those two could beat Luke, since in a strictly saber fight Kun couldn't use his amulet blasts.

Kotor3
Originally posted by caedusrulesall
Ulic and Kun are a strange pair. Kun is many times, on this forum, vastly underrated, while Ulic is vastly overrated. I don't think those two could beat Luke, since in a strictly saber fight Kun couldn't use his amulet blasts.

Actually I feel that Ulic is not given enough credit for his saber skills. Ulic as an apprentice at one time was Exar Kun's equal in saber combat and close enough in force power to not be defeated by Kun. It took a sith spirit to declared Ulic the apprentice.

Now how many if any apprentices of a Sith can say that? Ulic was able to defend against and enrage Jedi trying to kill him with his saber when he was already strip of the force, thus relying purely on his natural saber skills.

With Exar Kun and Ulic being that close in skill and power together I believe they could defeat NJO Luke and if not at least damage him more pretty good.

xxxpoppunker182
Originally posted by caedusrulesall
Ulic and Kun are a strange pair. Kun is many times, on this forum, vastly underrated, while Ulic is vastly overrated. I don't think those two could beat Luke, since in a strictly saber fight Kun couldn't use his amulet blasts.

i remember like 2 or maybe 3 years ago when exar and the ancient siths were like all powerful and unbeatable. now he's just like you said a little underrated.

man characters on this forum jump around on how good they are.

Master Crimzon
Does DE Sidious and DE Luke count?

DarkSerpent
Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
i remember like 2 or maybe 3 years ago when exar and the ancient siths were like all powerful and unbeatable. now he's just like you said a little underrated.

man characters on this forum jump around on how good they are. I you read the old threads, Ragnos=>DE Sidious

and NJO Luke<God

DarkSerpent
Whattup

Darth Subjekt
Are you trying to say Ragnos is better than Sidious? And NJO Luke is below a god?

Enyalus
If we're using NJO Luke in the NJO era (and not LOTF era), then Maul solos him in a saber duel. As does DE Sidious. As does Bane. As does probably Yoda in his prime.

I agree, by the way. Ulic is vastly overrated.

Lightsnake
I think you're selling NJO Luke vastly short

Master Crimzon
MAUL? IS THAT A JOKE? I dearly hope so.

I'd wager that several opponents can challenge Luke in saber combat, chief among them being DE Sidious, of course. But Luke is probably the greatest saber combatant in history.

Faunus
I would wager that Luke at his peak (DN -> LotF?) is pretty much unbeatable by any single opponent. At his highest showings, he's beastly. At his lowest, he's embarrassing.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
MAUL? IS THAT A JOKE? I dearly hope so.

Of course it isn't. Maul is one of the greatest pure duelists ever. He took down the entire Black Sun organization, which included at least seven bounty hunters perhaps only a tier below Boba Fett (we don't know because he took them all out so quickly), and a Nightsister trained in saber combat. He also took bested Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fairly easily while not even at 100% health. He tooled Anoon Bondara, the most skilled lightsaber combatant of the current Jedi Order.

His only two losses were to Darth Vader and Darth Sidious. The former he was beating badly and Vader would have died had he not impaled himself and harmed his own life support systems in order to hit Maul. Plus it wasn't clear if that Maul was ressurected, or a clone, or what. We don't even know if he had the same combat experience as the original. The latter he lost to after being hunted for a month on a remote world by assassin droids, having not eaten in days, probably wounded, and definitely exhausted. Hardly flattering circumstances.

So yeah, I think Maul could definitely take NJO Luke. He doesn't get nearly enough respect around here in my opinion.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
But Luke is probably the greatest saber combatant in history.

I don't know much about the NJO era. I'm going by what Gideon says that, during NJO, Luke was not a very well trained lightsaber duelist and he was only extremely formittable because of his vast Force powers. LOTF Luke would be a different story.

Master Crimzon
Originally posted by Enyalus
Of course it isn't. Maul is one of the greatest pure duelists ever. He took down the entire Black Sun organization, which included at least seven bounty hunters perhaps only a tier below Boba Fett (we don't know because he took them all out so quickly), and a Nightsister trained in saber combat. He also took bested Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fairly easily while not even at 100% health. He tooled Anoon Bondara, the most skilled lightsaber combatant of the current Jedi Order.

His only two losses were to Darth Vader and Darth Sidious. The former he was beating badly and Vader would have died had he not impaled himself and harmed his own life support systems in order to hit Maul. Plus it wasn't clear if that Maul was ressurected, or a clone, or what. We don't even know if he had the same combat experience as the original. The latter he lost to after being hunted for a month on a remote world by assassin droids, having not eaten in days, probably wounded, and definitely exhausted. Hardly flattering circumstances.

So yeah, I think Maul could definitely take NJO Luke. He doesn't get nearly enough respect around here in my opinion.



I don't know much about the NJO era. I'm going by what Gideon says that, during NJO, Luke was not a very well trained lightsaber duelist and he was only extremely formittable because of his vast Force powers. LOTF Luke would be a different story.

You are correct that Maul is more technically skilled and better physically conditioned than Luke Skywalker- what you are not correct about is the fact that Skywalker is- when empowered by the force- faster, stronger, with superior reflexes. By F*CKING LIGHTYEARS. Maul cannot, in any shape and form, contend with Luke, who is far faster (seemingly wielded 20 sabers at once to destroy a Yuuzhan Vong army. An incredible feat) and simply a greater swordsman- the above mentioned feat curbstomps any of Maul's own.

Yeah, Maul is good, but he is NOT a match for top-tier duelists like Yoda, Sidious (who outclassed Maul, despite holding back and not trying to kill him, while Maul- a physical beast, who would only use to pain to empower himself, in a manner certain Sith do), Mace, Bane, or Luke. Not even close.

If anything, Maul is overrated.

Edit: Well, Faunus, I agree that Luke at his peak is probably the strongest force user in history- nevertheless, it doesn't make him completely unbeatable. I'd wager that DE Sidious can, at least, challenge him.

Enyalus
Ah, you're right. That 20 sabers at once feat was during the NJO run. Heh. I concede.


Although I think a duel with Bane might be interesting, and if Mace doesn't use Vaapad, that Mace would go down like Anoon did.

Faunus
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
You are correct that Maul is more technically skilled and better physically conditioned than Luke Skywalker- what you are not correct about is the fact that Skywalker is- when empowered by the force- faster, stronger, with superior reflexes. By F*CKING LIGHTYEARS. Maul cannot, in any shape and form, contend with Luke, who is far faster (seemingly wielded 20 sabers at once to destroy a Yuuzhan Vong army. An incredible feat) and simply a greater swordsman- the above mentioned feat curbstomps any of Maul's own.

Yeah, Maul is good, but he is NOT a match for top-tier duelists like Yoda, Sidious (who outclassed Maul, despite holding back and not trying to kill him, while Maul- a physical beast, who would only use to pain to empower himself, in a manner certain Sith do), Mace, Bane, or Luke. Not even close.

If anything, Maul is overrated.Nicely said.

Of course Sidious could challenge him. I just don't think he has a shot at winning, just as I feel about the Yoda vs. DE Sidious scenario. A lot of people could fight Luke without just getting run down.

Bane would own Maul. Mace - more technically skilled than Maul, and physically stronger to boot - would, too. You're overrating him considerably.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Faunus
Bane would own Maul. Mace - more technically skilled than Maul, and physically stronger to boot - would, too. You're overrating him considerably.

Bane would own Maul. I agree. I think it'd be a lot like his Kas'im fight, which was very entertaining.

I seriously disagree that Mace is more technically skilled than Maul. Anoon was more technically skilled than Mace. Look how that turned out. However, Mace would use Vaapad, and kill Maul, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

Faunus
Anoon was more technically skilled than Mace - something that he himself questioned after sparring with said Jedi Knight and Qui-Gon Jinn. You forget, Mace created his own style based on his mastery of Juyo, which, as with Maul and Kas'im and Sidious and every one else, requires "high-level mastery" of multiple forms. Maul never invented his own form, and at twenty-two he hasn't had the time Mace had to develop his skills, although his training under Sidious was more specialized and complete than anything Mace went through.

Even then, Mace is more powerful than Maul. Physically, he's demonstrated far greater strength, although I would not go so far as to say that he's a superior physical specimen. I don't think I could name another SW character with Maul's conditioning and rigor of training. Mace also has the shatterpoint charism, as Gideon would put it, on his side.

So yes, he would solidly defeat Maul, if not all that easily.

Master Crimzon
Originally posted by Faunus
Nicely said.

Thxies. wink

Originally posted by Faunus
Of course Sidious could challenge him. I just don't think he has a shot at winning, just as I feel about the Yoda vs. DE Sidious scenario. A lot of people could fight Luke without just getting run down.

Well, DN Luke SHOULD take on Sidious- however, considering that even Caedus, who isn't Sidious by any means, was able to damage Luke during their fight, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Sidious doesn't stand a chance at winning. It's not a great chance, but I believe he could beat Luke, or at least injure him.

Then again, that's just speculation, and overall, Luke > DE Sidious.

Lightsnake
Here's a good thought: Who could challenge Bane when he's got no orbalisks?

Faunus
To be fair, Luke was already wounded from his much earlier duel with Lumiya, something that Jacen took advantage of immediately with a roundhouse kick to the bandaging on his chest. He had lung damage, you know, like smoking plasma.

Plus, Jacen noted that he'd set up weapons and traps in the event of Luke's arrival - he used them, if you missed it, and that's the only reason he survived.

A fresh Luke against a Jacen who didn't have the entire arena rigged wouldn't be such a drawn out battle.

Faunus
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Here's a good thought: Who could challenge Bane when he's got no orbalisks?Everyone who can give him a run for his money with them would defeat him. Anakin would be competition in a duel, Dooku becomes a viable threat in a duel, although no longer as much in the Force contest, Kyle Katarn, Jaina Solo, and probably several others. That said, Bane doesn't suddenly become tremendously weak without the armor. He's still one of the most powerful warriors in the saga.

Master Crimzon
Originally posted by Faunus
To be fair, Luke was already wounded from his much earlier duel with Lumiya, something that Jacen took advantage of immediately with a roundhouse kick to the bandaging on his chest. He had lung damage, you know, like smoking plasma.

Plus, Jacen noted that he'd set up weapons and traps in the event of Luke's arrival - he used them, if you missed it, and that's the only reason he survived.

A fresh Luke against a Jacen who didn't have the entire arena rigged wouldn't be such a drawn out battle.

Well, you got some good points there. Still, it doesn't mean that Luke will curbstomp Jacen in a 'fair' battle.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Here's a good thought: Who could challenge Bane when he's got no orbalisks?

I like that point. I'd probably support what Faunus said regarding it. Especially if it's after RoT, when he basically has a fresh body (his skin was basically pink like a new born's), tons of Force knowledge, and a decade more to practice his saber technique since his non-orbalisk days in PoD.



I don't necessarily agree with that. Yes, electricity are the orbalisks' weakness, but it should be noted that it took Bane's own lightning, meant to kill, redirected upon him at point blank range, to damage him so severely. Even then, not all of the orbalisks were dead. Not even most of them. From what we see in the book, Bane's lightning is practically near Sidious' level - far beyond what Dooku's demonstrated.

Lightsnake
Very true on the subject of Bane. However, his little orbalisk power moding is gone big time...while he's still an incredible combatant, he can't just bull into opponents and bat sabers aside with his limbs. he has to devote himself to defense.

Faunus
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, you got some good points there. Still, it doesn't mean that Luke will curbstomp Jacen in a 'fair' battle. Not "curbstomp," but he would win comfortably, especially with what we see him do in Invincible. He's badass again, like he was in TUF.

Gideon
Skywalker only demonstrates truly peerless lightsaber skills in The Unifying Force, which is the last book of the New Jedi Order series. In just a few books prior, he's getting his ass kicked by a random Dark Jedi despite having two seasoned warriors on his side. In fact, it is arguable that his state in NJO was a temporary oneness of the Force -- a deus ex machina he demonstrates in Dark Empire and that Jacen Solo also demonstrates in NJO. There is no logic to his sudden increase in skill. By LotF is he the greatest combatant ever? I can concede that.

But someone like Yoda and Sidious (and a few others) would manhandle Skywalker throughout most of NJO.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Gideon
Skywalker only demonstrates truly peerless lightsaber skills in The Unifying Force, which is the last book of the New Jedi Order series. In just a few books prior, he's getting his ass kicked by a random Dark Jedi despite having two seasoned warriors on his side. In fact, it is arguable that his state in NJO was a temporary oneness of the Force -- a deus ex machina he demonstrates in Dark Empire and that Jacen Solo also demonstrates in NJO. There is no logic to his sudden increase in skill. By LotF is he the greatest combatant ever? I can concede that.

But someone like Yoda and Sidious (and a few others) would manhandle Skywalker throughout most of NJO.

Woo! Validation! lol

Faunus
Originally posted by Gideon
There is no logic to his sudden increase in skill.It's called inconsistent writing.

Schwarzenegger
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Here's a good thought: Who could challenge Bane when he's got no orbalisks? Other than what faunus has mentioned i guess vader and exar kun would challenge him.

Master Crimzon
Originally posted by Faunus
Not "curbstomp," but he would win comfortably, especially with what we see him do in Invincible. He's badass again, like he was in TUF.

Yeth, basically.

truejedi
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
A few off the top of my head that have a good chance would be

RoT Bane and Zannah

Mace Windu and Yoda

Darth Vader and Sidious

Dooku and Sidious

possibly ROTS Anakin and Obiwan.

i would edit that list down to just sidious and vader. (and thats assuming DE sidious.) Its luke we are talking about. Did you want luke's most powerful incarnation? Cause that would be LOTF luke.

Faunus
If this NJO Luke, and not DN or LotF Luke, Mace/Yoda and Dooku/Sidious would definitely be able to pull it off, although once you hit TUF Luke gets somewhat incredible.

Schwarzenegger
Originally posted by DarkSerpent
I you read the old threads, Ragnos=>DE Sidious

and NJO Luke<God If you had a brain, DE sidious > ragnos.

DarkSerpent
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
If you had a brain, DE sidious > ragnos. Its called being a smartass, and I was commenting on the old opinions.

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