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http://www.amethystinitiative.org/

"These higher education leaders have signed their names to a public statement that the 21 year-old drinking age is not working, and, specifically, that it has created a culture of dangerous binge drinking on their campuses."


Basically, this group is urging politicians to reconsider the drinking age in the United States. They go into more detail on the Statement page.

Thought it'd be interesting to see how posters in other countries (where drinking ages are lower) feel.

Would it be wise to lower the drinking age? Why do dangerous habits, such as binge-drinking, develop among minors who legally cannot drink?

Interested in your thoughts.

Is there a culture of binge drinking in universities in France?

legal drinking age here is 18. but it is way too easy for underagers to get alcohol.

All I'm really going to say about the drinking age is that if you're old enough to die for your country in a stupid ass war then you're old enough to drink a beer.

The American legal age to buy alcohol is already stupidly high, raising it any more than it is will have zero effect. Binge drinking will happen no matter what the age limit is, I would imagine like here in the UK its quite easy to get drink if your under age. There are shops that don't care, you get older people to buy it, fake I.D. You can get married, join the army, drive a car, work full time, buy a house and smoke cigs but you can't have a beer at the end of the day, only in America.

If you can die for your country the law should let you get drunk enough to deal with it.

Making the drinking age lower might cost more problems

its all about the $ they make from busting folks..lol...kinda why legalizing maryjane will not happen...best we can hope for in some states is a bit of decriminalization

Originally posted by gryphon28
Making the drinking age lower might cost more problems

It's not as though the current drinking age stops anyone that wants to drink.

no but they make money from busting people for it..creates jobs and makes the states money

What a silly argument. These sort of people really annoy me, when they can't be honest about why they're arguing for a change in the legality of a substance.

Stop all these arguments of "it will curb binge drinking if it can be bought legally" and of medicinal marijuana and go back to the most important argument of personal freedom; people should be allowed to do whatever they want to their own body.

Drinking affects others, too.

It doesn't matter if the drinking age is 15 or 50. If they see their favourite characters on Friends drinking beer, then they're going to too, whether it's legal or not.

Originally posted by apoc001
Drinking affects others, too.

Please, do explain.

The Scottish Government wants to raise the drinking age from 18 to 21 to tackle binge drinking.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The Scottish Government wants to raise the drinking age from 18 to 21 to tackle binge drinking.

Yeah, I saw that on the news today. Though I thought it was only going to be raised for alcohol purchases from off licences?

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Please, do explain.
Loss of judgment from drinking has led to drunk driving accidents, fights, rape, spousal abuse and child abuse. Obviously, it's not like every time you drink, you hurt someone, but it does happen sometimes.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
What a silly argument. These sort of people really annoy me, when they can't be honest about why they're arguing for a change in the legality of a substance.

Stop all these arguments of "it will curb binge drinking if it can be bought legally" and of medicinal marijuana and go back to the most important argument of personal freedom; people should be allowed to do whatever they want to their own body. I agree. As much as I would like to see the drinking age lowered, I get the feeling these colleges are just in it because it would reduce the amount of pressure they are under to supervise and control drinking on their campuses.

Originally posted by apoc001
Loss of judgment from drinking has led to drunk driving accidents, fights, rape, spousal abuse and child abuse. Obviously, it's not like every time you drink, you hurt someone, but it does happen sometimes.

So, the alcohol didn't go out and do this, did it? People can and do drink responsibly, why should these people have the opportunity to do so legally, taken from them because some idiots do some stupid things? If they break the law while drunk, they should be punished for the law they've broken, but there really is no point in demonising a substance because of criminal acts that a very small minority of drinkers have committed.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
So, the alcohol didn't go out and do this, did it? People can and do drink responsibly, why should these people have the opportunity to do so legally, taken from them because some idiots do some stupid things? If they break the law while drunk, they should be punished for the law they've broken, but there really is no point in demonising a substance because of criminal acts that a very small minority of drinkers have committed.
Did I say they should have their right to do so legally taken from them? No, I didn't. I was pointing out that drinking sometimes affects others. And no, the alcohol didn't out and do these things, but usually the person wouldn't have done it if he had been sober. Heck, just this past winter around where I live a man got drunk and took his two baby daughters to a park and woke up in a hospital with frostbite and hypothermia to find out that both his daughters had frozen to death because of him. It doesn't affect others if you drink responsibly, but a lot of people don't have the strength to.

Originally posted by apoc001
Did I say they should have their right to do so legally taken from them? No, I didn't. I was pointing out that drinking sometimes affects others. And no, the alcohol didn't out and do these things, but usually the person wouldn't have done it if he had been sober. Heck, just this past winter around where I live a man got drunk and took his two baby daughters to a park and woke up in a hospital with frostbite and hypothermia to find out that both his daughters had frozen to death because of him. It doesn't affect others if you drink responsibly, but a lot of people don't have the strength to.

So why mention it, then? It's like coming into the thread and posting "sometimes, some people break laws".

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
So why mention it, then? It's like coming into the thread and posting "sometimes, some people break laws".

you did ask how drinking can hurt others...

my brother is a heavy drinker, and i think if he hadnt started so young maybe he wouldn't be such a drunken messed up ****head as he is, and i just know one of these days hes gonna kill himself or get someone else killed, hes had enough drunken car accidents....

Originally posted by ~Forever*Alone~
you did ask how drinking can hurt others...

my brother is a heavy drinker, and i think if he hadnt started so young maybe he wouldn't be such a drunken messed up ****head as he is, and i just know one of these days hes gonna kill himself or get someone else killed, hes had enough drunken car accidents....

I don't think you understand why I asked that.

Oh, how I love it when someone brings up some purely anecdotal rubbish as evidence. Your brother sounds like an idiot.

he totally is!!!

driving drunk can and nowadays usually suck...roads r more populated than in our day..nowadays kids and people r led to believe drivers must get out of their way...in my day and my fathers days pedestrians knew to get the f**k out of the way of cars...you jump for the curb!!!nowadays if you live thru it you can sue...lol...to many cars on the roads to drive drunk...b4 u only hurt yourself or the neighbor farmers fence..now u might run over a skater punk kid or a gangbanger who is suicidal due to bad meds or a poor child whos parents dont pay enuff attention to know there kids are in the street etc...ouch is all i can say..lol...(not really a laughing matter)and by the way I dont drive...she drives if I drink..lol..anyways blah blah

I agree with Chill. However, the mistakes and actions of the few restrict the privileges of the many. Is it possible, though, that after a while, the "ZOMG! I CAN DRINK!" craze would die down and idiots would stop drinking. They couldn't "be cool" and "be a rebel" by doing something that was perfectly legal. Being naughty makes it exciting. There's probably a culture out there somewhere that does not restrict drinking by age...surely their youth aren't aren't massive binge drinkers.

The way it is, marijuana should be legalized and alcohol should be illegalized.

Have you ever heard of someone dying from smoking too much Black Gold? (Compare to death by alcohol poisoning a la binge drinking.) Have you ever heard of a White Widow(Insert some potent strand of marijuana here.) driving accident? (Compare to drunken driving accident.) Have you ever heard of an Aunt Mary rage? (Compare to a drunken rage.)

And while I'm on it, how many people have died from steroid use? (If you can name one, you're probably another idiot who fell for the anti-steroid propaganda.)


Even in absurd amounts, both MJ and steroids are much safer than alcohol. Yet, both are basically illegal. You've got idjits injecting well over 4000ml of combined anabolics and red eyed momos lighting up every 3 hours. They seem to be fine. (Minus the ***** t*ts and poor grades...and various other things.)

America has shit backwards. "The War on Steroids" and "The War on Drugs"(as it pertains to marijuana) are bullshit. If we really wanted to "protect our children", alcohol would be illegal.

I believe inimalist put it best in another thread when he talked about the subjectivity of drug seriousness.

As for the whole alcohol kills more people argument, I think people get carried away with it. Whether you can die from a substance or not shouldn't matter, it should be up to you to make the decision to take such risks, not up to a nanny state that considers it their business what you inhale, inject or drink.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/aug/27/foodanddrink.france

anyways, more regulation will promote more drinking

as long as drinking is a sign of maturity, youth will do it

Originally posted by inimalist
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/aug/27/foodanddrink.france

anyways, more regulation will promote more drinking

Not to mention more crime.

Originally posted by dadudemon
There's probably a culture out there somewhere that does not restrict drinking by age...surely their youth aren't aren't massive binge drinkers.

binge drinking has been on the increase in France, who had such a culture. However, this is also rising in response to more legislation and control on where kids can drink

however, I can think of many other reasons why youth in modern western societies would want to drink. The article I posted in my previous response talks about the globalizing of behaviour and of more demand on youth. However, I might add that the modern world offers no challenge or purpose for those who are not yet fully adult, and coddles them far too much. A substance that affirms maturity and autonomy then might be very powerful.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The way it is, marijuana should be legalized and alcohol should be illegalized.

regardless of the logic, that argument fails for simply pragmatic reasons. lest you think Al Capone is a more preferable business man than, say, Molson or Crown Royal.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Have you ever heard of someone dying from smoking too much Black Gold? (Compare to death by alcohol poisoning a la binge drinking.)

1) no culture in human history has consumed as much marijuana as western society, generally starting mid century.

2) The marijuana grown, especially since the 70s, is on the magnitude of hundreds of times more potent than anything seen prior

3) long term medical studies are unavailable to properly untangle potential risks of marijuana

4) there are hundreds of potentially cancerous chemicals in pot smoke. much less in eaten or vaporized bud (as most are a property of the smoke itself).

5) individual people are affected by drugs in different ways, and "pot-death" is not something doctors and coronors look for at time of death. Much like how all smokers who get cancer have it attributed to their cigarettes, death from prolonged pot use might never be reported properly

6) there are plenty of negative consequences to smoking pot. Many that alcohol does not share, like schitzo type symptoms and anxiety problems.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Have you ever heard of a White Widow(Insert some potent strand of marijuana here.) driving accident?(Compare to drunken driving accident.)

what, are you kidding? You are suggesting that people who are high are not at more risk of a traffic accident than someone driving sober?

nobody would argue that pot, because of the types of affects it has on you (attentional vs motor control), is more dangerous than driving drunk. Most studies point to it being on the magnitude of cell phone conversation

Originally posted by dadudemon
Have you ever heard of an Aunt Mary rage? (Compare to a drunken rage.)

pot affects people in many ways. I've had personal experiences with people who probably wished all it did to them was make them angry

Originally posted by dadudemon
And while I'm on it, how many people have died from steroid use? (If you can name one, you're probably another idiot who fell for the anti-steroid propaganda.)

doesn't this strike you as moot, given you just mentioned "rage"?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Even in absurd amounts, both MJ and steroids are much safer than alcohol. Yet, both are basically illegal. You've got idjits injecting well over 4000ml of combined anabolics and red eyed momos lighting up every 3 hours. They seem to be fine. (Minus the ***** t*ts and poor grades...and various other things.)

subjective analysis

Originally posted by dadudemon
America has shit backwards. "The War on Steroids" and "The War on Drugs"(as it pertains to marijuana) are bullshit. If we really wanted to "protect our children", alcohol would be illegal.

children were safer during alcohol prohibition?

oh wait, prohibition raises drug use.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not to mention more crime.

wasted police time ticketing and arresting otherwise law abiding teens

giving teens the respect for authority that we want them to have