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Gaara from Naruto challenges Sandman from the Spider-Man comics.

The two face off on a beach.


Which of these two masters of sand will win?

Sandman will punch Gaara's head off easy.

Gaara has no way to kill him.

Sandman could punch right through Gaara's shield.

I'd say Sandman. Only because you can't injure the dude.

Gaara's shield could easily take the punches. He wouldn't even have to lift a finger.

Gaara could probably throw him into the ocean and be done with it...

Still....it looks like sandman would win. Doesn't sandman get tired when doing all that manipulation, though?

I want gaara to win because he's much cooler.

Dude, Rock Lee punched right through Gaara's sand. Sandman would demolish it and Gaara with one punch.

And Sandman is cooler than Gaara. There I said it.

Could Gaara control Sandman?? Cause that would be funny.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Dude, Rock Lee punched right through Gaara's sand. Sandman would demolish it and Gaara with one punch.

And Sandman is cooler than Gaara. There I said it.

He didn't punch THROUGH his sand shield, he was punching FASTER than the sand shield could form.


In da butt, straight veins, no lube.

Edit- Yes, that would be quite hilarious if Gaara controlled sandman.

Originally posted by dadudemon
He didn't punch THROUGH his sand shield, he was punching FASTER than the sand shield could form.


In da butt, straight veins, no lube.

Edit- Yes, that would be quite hilarious if Gaara controlled sandman. Watch the fight again, he was also punching through it. And if I remember right, Kimimaro punched through it too. Sandman is stronger than Tsunade, he would crush that sand shield and Gaara.

Gaara strains considerably when controlling sand that is not from his gord, and Sandman has total control over his own body, figure it out.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Watch the fight again, he was also punching through it. And if I remember right, Kimimaro punched through it too. Sandman is stronger than Tsunade, he would crush that sand shield and Gaara.

Gaara strains considerably when controlling sand that is not from his gord, and Sandman has total control over his own body, figure it out.

Doesn't really matter what you saw in the anime...what matters is what's in the Manga. It was also described in the ANIME that he was moving faster than it could form.

Pwned in da butt AGAIN son.

Does it REALLY make sense that pulling off the leg weights some how makes Lee punch harder?

Sandman would probably take control of Gaara's personal sand and then Gaara would have nothing to rely on.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Doesn't sandman get tired when doing all that manipulation, though?



not really.

Takes fairly high end matter manip or specialized equipment to take over elementals like Sandman. Same with Hydroman, Klaw and others.

Sandman has the ability to condense the sand into fists on a class 100 level, or disperse it into clouds while maintaining control over every grain.

Gaara can't win. Chakra-infusion might stop Sandman from taking the sand, it might not. I'm willing to gamble that Gaara will run out of gas before Sandman. Since Sandman's stamina limit is near non-existant outside of water. And, even if Gaara went to Shukaku form, he still can't hurt Marko.

Worse, if Sandman takes control of that sand, he could potentially absorb Shukaku's sand and thereby his powers.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/82/16/

Alright, so his blows weren't going right through, but they did break the sand.

Sandman hits MUCH harder than Lee. Or anyone else in Naruto for that matter.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Dude, Rock Lee punched right through Gaara's sand. Sandman would demolish it and Gaara with one punch.


The f*ck?

Kimmimaro's hardest attack could barely piece through the sand shield, and Gaara's regular sand sand withstood an explosion large enough to destroy a city. Mushroom cloud and all.

And Gaara can control normal sand with his chakra. Sandman is composed of normal sand. Gaara can control him with his chakra.

If they're facing off on a beach then Gaara cab essentially just make him walk into the water. QED.

And aside from all that, what happens if Gaara decides to make his ultimo-sand ball like, five hundred feet in the air? He's perfectly safe at that distance.

i highly doubt that Gaara can take control over sandman, and if there fighting on a beach the entire beach would be Sandman.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/82/16/

Alright, so his blows weren't going right through, but they did break the sand.

Sandman hits MUCH harder than Lee. Or anyone else in Naruto for that matter.

LOL.

I win.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/83/02/

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
The f*ck?

Kimmimaro's hardest attack could barely piece through the sand shield, and Gaara's regular sand sand withstood an explosion large enough to destroy a city. Mushroom cloud and all.

And Gaara can control normal sand with his chakra. Sandman is composed of normal sand. Gaara can control him with his chakra.

If they're facing off on a beach then Gaara cab essentially just make him walk into the water. QED.

And aside from all that, what happens if Gaara decides to make his ultimo-sand ball like, five hundred feet in the air? He's perfectly safe at that distance. 1. And by feats, Sandman is not only stronger than Kimmimaro, but stronger than friggin Tsunade as well. Gaara's sand shielded the entire village from an explosion, sure, but you forgot to add the fact that Gaara has to use up ALOT of his chakra to do it. Also, that isn't his normal shield which comes to his aid, that was a shield he had to manually create in a despiration act to save his people. And bullcrap, there was no Mushroom Cloud, hell, the explosion wasn't even near as big as the whole village. Unless that village is really small.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/249/12-13/

So, going by the feats of Gaara's PERSONAL shield, Sandman demolishes it.

3. So because Gaara can control inanimate sand with no will or control over itself, Gaara can control living sand with total control over its own body and any sand he touches? Fail logic is fail. Shit, why don't I just assume that Gaara's sand will be absorbed by Sandman while I am at it.

4. Well there are two things that could happen.

If there is alot of sand around in this fight, Sandman grows really really big and swipes him down.

Not sure if he did this in the comics, but in the movie he can fly.

And besides...What is Gaara gonna do from up there? Run away?

Sandman can and will end this in one punch.

Originally posted by dadudemon
LOL.

I win.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/83/02/ And what the hell was that supposed to prove?

gaara.

Sandman out classes Gaara. Gaara cant kill him or injure him and he's way stronger then anything Gaara has ever faced.

really? even stronger than than the moves gaara pulled against diedara???????

Since they can't kill him I don't think it matters...

cant magic damage sandman? cause i thought it cud. also, they are fighting near the water so all he has to do is throw him in the water. besides, if spidey can survive against him, so can gaara.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
cant magic damage sandman? cause i thought it cud. also, they are fighting near the water so all he has to do is throw him in the water. besides, if spidey can survive against him, so can gaara. Gaara doesn't know magic though.

Throw him with WHAT? Sand? Sandman absorbs sand. Although it is a beach, that also means there is alot of sand around for Sandman to absorb and add mass to himself with. Sandman will be too big.

Spiderman can survive since he is really intelligent and quick, Gaara is neither.

gara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>spidey

gaara can also control any sand remember. hell just levitate sandman and throw him in the water. and gaara's power is chakra based = magical. you are also forgetting shukaku, gaara cud just go shukaku and kill sandman with chakra and wind balls.

Sandman can control any sand as well, no matter what Gaara tries he will override it. Shukaku can blast Sandman all he wants, it won't do shit.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
gara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>spidey

gaara can also control any sand remember. hell just levitate sandman and throw him in the water. and gaara's power is chakra based = magical. you are also forgetting shukaku, gaara cud just go shukaku and kill sandman with chakra and wind balls. Granted. But Spidey has the strength, speed, and smarts to hang with the more powerful Sandman.

He can't control Sandman, Sandman is living sand who has total control over his body and any sand he absorbs.

Chakra=/=magic.

Gaara would be dead before he ever got the chance to go Shukaku. One punch will kill him.

chakra=magic, even sasuke says so.

gaara has greater strength and speed, and granted, he doesnt have the smarts, he makes up for it with sadism.

and the same thing with gaara, he also has complete control over the sand, so much so that he can specifically gather the crystals of the strongest minerals for his sand shield and make it harder than diomand.

also gaasa has that eye and absolute defence thing.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
chakra=magic, even sasuke says so.

gaara has greater strength and speed, and granted, he doesnt have the smarts, he makes up for it with sadism.

and the same thing with gaara, he also has complete control over the sand, so much so that he can specifically gather the crystals of the strongest minerals for his sand shield and make it harder than diomand.

also gaasa has that eye and absolute defence thing. 1. When?

2. No he doesn't, not by feats. When has Gaara EVER shown speed on Spiderman's level, or strength? I'll answer that for you. Never. Sadism? So? Won't save his head from flying off his shoulders from a single punch from Sandman.

3. Sandman can absorb and collect sand to add mass to himself, he can condense the sand as TP said to simulate class 100 blows. Weaker people have at least damaged Gaara's shield, Sandman will annihilate it. Even Tsunade, the physically strongest character in the series, is weaker than Sandman.

4. The eye? Is he gonna spy one Sandman?

right before he is about to fight rick lee for the first time.

gaara's strength is dependant on his sand and his speed is very fast considering the sand teleportation and flying on his own sand.

he wont be absorbing sand which is being controlled by sasuke's chakra. or else, sasuke will start controlling his movement.

no, the eye is complimentary to the absolute defence tecnique.

Where are you getting this notion that Gaara can override Sandman's control? If anything it would be the other way around.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
right before he is about to fight rick lee for the first time.

gaara's strength is dependant on his sand and his speed is very fast considering the sand teleportation and flying on his own sand.

he wont be absorbing sand which is being controlled by sasuke's chakra. or else, sasuke will start controlling his movement.

no, the eye is complimentary to the absolute defence tecnique. 1. Scan?

2. His physical strength does not even near Spiderman, I wasn't talking about sand. Dude, Naruto can use the friggin jutsu that allows you to instantly move from one place to another and switch places with something, NAruto is not fast at all. Same principal. Flying? Flying will do what? Help him run?

3. Damn, Sasuke can control sand now? It was just a matter of time...

Lol. No he won't, Sandman's control over his own body and the sand he absorbs is great, if I remember right, he can even convert to glass and vice versa.

4. ...I'm sorry, what?

gaara would win he can control sand

Originally posted by braveheart
gaara would win he can control sand
You are aware of course that Sandman can also control sand and as such that is an incredibly feeble and ignorant argument.

Gaara has his sand shield, his sand armor, sand clones, and replacement jutsu to get pass which one or two would be fine but all four isn't going to be easy on just strength alone. His transformed state would probably be pretty much useless against this kind of opponent also. And the sand shield Lee was up against wasn't close to what Gaara could do. Also Kimimaro shot through the sand with drill-like bones. He never broke it with strength. And Sandman isn't exactly on Lee's speed so he isn't punching faster than it. Gaara's personal sand also has the spirit of Shukaku in it so Sandman isn't going to be taking that over. On the same note Gaara won't take over Sandman I guess but it would still be funny if he could. Them fighting on a beach..could probably be bad for Gaara as Sandman could absorb the sand but could Gaara use the sand from under water to hurt him since it would be wet? Though him figuring it out would be...hard pressed I guess he after all isn't a genius. Even assuming that would work.

Basically Gaara will fight and fight and fight, but he'll run out of Chakra eventually and die since he can't hurt Sandman.

Not saying Gaara will win..Just trying to find out some options..and what would hurt Sandman. Like would wet sand work to hurt him or would it just be useless to try.

I think that considering that he will be all the sand in the beach that it will take a whole lot of water to really do an effect

Chakra is not magic...

Garaa fans are bias...

SandMan take this 10/10.

I have no idea how Sandman can kill Gaara.
I have no idea how Gaara can kill Sandman.
I'd say this is a stalemate.

Sandman can defeat Gaara with a punch, he will plow right through Gaara's sand shield, lesser force has done it.

Sandman is class 75, which is physically stronger than anyone in Naruto, but can condense his fists to simulate class 100 blows.

Sandman can just start hitting Gaara with his own sand, he will get to experience his sand coffin. Sandman controls every bit of sand in his body it's ilogical to think Gaara could easily take control of it. Sandman can just take away all his sand then all it would take is a couple of punches if not one to k.o him, there is nothing Gaara can do.

and he turn himself into a giant as dense as hell fist and just destroy the shield eaisly

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Sandman can defeat Gaara with a punch, he will plow right through Gaara's sand shield, lesser force has done it.

Sandman is class 75, which is physically stronger than anyone in Naruto, but can condense his fists to simulate class 100 blows.

Fair enough

If Sandman can absorb Gaara's sand he is fvcked, Sandman will just get bigger and stronger.

Though I do not think he can take Gaara's personal sand since it is so linked to his chakra, it literally is his chakra kinda.

And a punch from Sandman won't KO Gaara, it will kill him.

You forget jaxx he doesnt need to absorb Gaaras sand because he's fighting on a beach

I know, but I am just saying he probably cannot absorb Gaara's personal sand.

I would just like to add that in the movies, Sandman was bringing his fist down on spidey three times and he didn't die. So enough with the whole "Sandman kills Gaara with one ounch" crap. It's getting annoying now.

Also, Gaara has his sand shield. That thing has been protecting Gaara from a lot of blows (especially to the head). If everyones favorite friendly neighborhood superhero can take a few big punches from Sandman, so can Gaara.

I ain't exactly saying who will win here, I just wanted add what I know.

Bringing up that failure of a movie really doesn't work even if the movie wasn't so terrible...

Then there is the fact Spidey > Gaara is speed, and ability to dodge. Gaara's slow compared to any Narutoverse Ninja. It's his sand that is so fast. He's never had to worry about speed.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
I would just like to add that in the movies, Sandman was bringing his fist down on spidey three times and he didn't die. So enough with the whole "Sandman kills Gaara with one ounch" crap. It's getting annoying now.

Also, Gaara has his sand shield. That thing has been protecting Gaara from a lot of blows (especially to the head). If everyones favorite friendly neighborhood superhero can take a few big punches from Sandman, so can Gaara.

I ain't exactly saying who will win here, I just wanted add what I know. First of all, movies aren't canon, movie Sandman did not have the feats of comics. He did not seem as strong.

Besides, Spiderman has shown to be stronger and more physically durable than Gaara, without the sand shield and sand armor, he is pretty defenseless when it comes to taking damage, when the Chidori hit him he was screaming in pain and agony.

Sandman demolishes Gaara.

Ahh give Gaara a break about the screaming in pain...It's the second time he ever bled and like the third time in 12 years to ever feel physical pain. Besides he does have the sand shield and armor along with replacement. So he'll be able to last for more than one hit I'd think.

Originally posted by Kento
Ahh give Gaara a break about the screaming in pain...It's the second time he ever bled and like the third time in 12 years to ever feel physical pain. Besides he does have the sand shield and armor along with replacement. So he'll be able to last for more than one hit I'd think. The sand armor was cracked by Rock Lee. Sandman hits like...at least 30 times harder than Rock Lee. The shield was also cracked by Lee.

The armor was cracked by Lee..the shield wasn't. Lee punched faster than the sand could block but not fast enough to hit Gaara before he was stopped. And still Gaara's got stronger shields than what he was using against Lee. That was just normal sand defense. He's shown thicker ones. Against the grass ninja, against Sasuke, against Kimimaro, and against Deidara. Also replacement will keep him alive for a while. Not saying he can win..just that he's not going to be killed in the first attack.

Okay about Lee breaking the sand shield and armor, Lee did that when he was in hyper mode and that increased his strength and speed that made the sand armor break. An unhyper moded Lee couldn't destroy his sand armor.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Okay about Lee breaking the sand shield and armor, Lee did that when he was in hyper mode and that increased his strength and speed that made the sand armor break. An unhyper moded Lee couldn't destroy his sand armor.
So? Sandman hits harder either way.

Originally posted by Kento
The armor was cracked by Lee..the shield wasn't. Lee punched faster than the sand could block but not fast enough to hit Gaara before he was stopped. And still Gaara's got stronger shields than what he was using against Lee. That was just normal sand defense. He's shown thicker ones. Against the grass ninja, against Sasuke, against Kimimaro, and against Deidara. Also replacement will keep him alive for a while. Not saying he can win..just that he's not going to be killed in the first attack. Look at the scan I posted first page. Lee broke through the sand shield slightly.

And the sand armor is stronger than the shield.

The one against the grass shield WAS his normal shield.

Sasuke also went right through that shield with Chidori, did he not? One attack will break through the shield, the next attack will break Gaara.

And all those stronger shields have to be formed by gathering layers of sand around him, Sandman simply by standing in sand will be absorbing it if he wants.

When I said one punch, I meant all it would take it one punch to kill Gaara.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Okay about Lee breaking the sand shield and armor, Lee did that when he was in hyper mode and that increased his strength and speed that made the sand armor break. An unhyper moded Lee couldn't destroy his sand armor. Lee broke the shield just by removing the weights. I already posted the damn scans.

And he cut the armor without being hyper too.

Sandman is MUCH stronger than Lee.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Look at the scan I posted first page. Lee broke through the sand shield slightly.

And the sand armor is stronger than the shield.

The one against the grass shield WAS his normal shield.

Sasuke also went right through that shield with Chidori, did he not? One attack will break through the shield, the next attack will break Gaara.

And all those stronger shields have to be formed by gathering layers of sand around him, Sandman simply by standing in sand will be absorbing it if he wants.

When I said one punch, I meant all it would take it one punch to kill Gaara. Lee was moving faster than Gaara's sand. The sand was able to stop his attacks before they hit Gaara but not block them. If he was able to punch through the sand he'd have hit Gaara with the first attack.

The normal shield is what he used against Lee...If I recall what he used against the grass ninja was thicker. As for Chidori. Not only does it turn the persons hand into a knife it's back by the speed of the user. Neither have anything to do with Sandman punching it. And Gaara's sand is ground and Chidori is lightning. Lightning beats ground.
Also Gaara can make those shields faster than Sandman can attack. They may be regular sand but Sandman isn't going to suddenly absorb the sand that was used while while he's in the midst of punching. Maybe after he hits it but by then Gaara would have stopped the hit.

Sandman is going to have to work for that punch though assuming one punch would kill him. I think it would take at least two if he's actually able to kill Gaara with a hit. One to hurt him and destroy the armor and the second to kill.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx


Irrelevant because A) Sandman's attacks are nowhere near on the level of a city destroying bomb. And B) The sand was also spread thin across the entire blast radius,and still did not break. Logic dictates that anything spread over a long distance will have a weaker integrity then something that is not spread thin but is concentrated. Gaara will not have to spread his sand defense nearly that far apart to defend himself against Sandman's punches. That being the case, if his shield was concentrated it should be able to easily absorb the force of his punches.




Which doesn't really matter because he can enact the shield incredibly fast, and he won't need a shield that strong to protect himself from his blows since Sandman's blows aren't as strong as a bomb that size. He wouldn'tneed to use nearly a much chakra.




You're right. All I had remembered was that there was a big ass explosion.




Sandman controls his sand in the same manner, does he not? I've never seen Sandman's sand act on it's own will. He takes inanimate sand and manipulates it around him to do various things. Not sure about that exactly though. Irregardless, can you prove that Sandman can resist a chakra fueled attack on his control of the sand? It is essentially his supernatural control versus Gaara's.




This is assuming that A) Sandman gets to all of that sand before Gaara takes control of his share. B) Sandman can build himself up that high and still function normally. You'd have to provide proof for that, as he's fought on a beach before and never done that. C) Gaara doesn't just float higher up or (For the lulz) He decides to just float over the water. lolZ.



You and I have been over this before, man.



Live.


And another possibility: Is there any reason to think that Gaara can not control sand that is wet? If there isn't I don't see why he can't just use the equivelent of a sand avalanche that's made entire out of sand from the water. It'd essentially be a tsunami of wet sand which would in turn weaken Sandman's sand composition and he'd turn into mud... and we've all seen what happens when he turns into mud.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Sandman controls his sand in the same manner, does he not? I've never seen Sandman's sand act on it's own will. He takes inanimate sand and manipulates it around him to do various things. Not sure about that exactly though. Irregardless, can you prove that Sandman can resist a chakra fueled attack on his control of the sand? It is essentially his supernatural control versus Gaara's.
You are basically saying that Sandman will be controlled by Gaara? I don't see why, in terms of control i'd have to think that being made of sand>Controlling sand. Sandman can integrate sand into himself and it essentially becomes a part of him. I mean, could Gaara take control of Shukaku (if for some odd reason they fought)? I'd have to think that Shukaku's control of his own sand would supersede any outside control from a sand-user, and it seems the same with Sandman.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
I would just like to add that in the movies, Sandman was bringing his fist down on spidey three times and he didn't die. So enough with the whole "Sandman kills Gaara with one ounch" crap. It's getting annoying now.

Also, Gaara has his sand shield. That thing has been protecting Gaara from a lot of blows (especially to the head). If everyones favorite friendly neighborhood superhero can take a few big punches from Sandman, so can Gaara.

I ain't exactly saying who will win here, I just wanted add what I know.

Made me 'lol' vin

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Irrelevant because A) Sandman's attacks are nowhere near on the level of a city destroying bomb. And B) The sand was also spread thin across the entire blast radius,and still did not break. Logic dictates that anything spread over a long distance will have a weaker integrity then something that is not spread thin but is concentrated. Gaara will not have to spread his sand defense nearly that far apart to defend himself against Sandman's punches. That being the case, if his shield was concentrated it should be able to easily absorb the force of his punches.




Which doesn't really matter because he can enact the shield incredibly fast, and he won't need a shield that strong to protect himself from his blows since Sandman's blows aren't as strong as a bomb that size. He wouldn'tneed to use nearly a much chakra.




You're right. All I had remembered was that there was a big ass explosion.




Sandman controls his sand in the same manner, does he not? I've never seen Sandman's sand act on it's own will. He takes inanimate sand and manipulates it around him to do various things. Not sure about that exactly though. Irregardless, can you prove that Sandman can resist a chakra fueled attack on his control of the sand? It is essentially his supernatural control versus Gaara's.




This is assuming that A) Sandman gets to all of that sand before Gaara takes control of his share. B) Sandman can build himself up that high and still function normally. You'd have to provide proof for that, as he's fought on a beach before and never done that. C) Gaara doesn't just float higher up or (For the lulz) He decides to just float over the water. lolZ.



You and I have been over this before, man.



Live.


And another possibility: Is there any reason to think that Gaara can not control sand that is wet? If there isn't I don't see why he can't just use the equivelent of a sand avalanche that's made entire out of sand from the water. It'd essentially be a tsunami of wet sand which would in turn weaken Sandman's sand composition and he'd turn into mud... and we've all seen what happens when he turns into mud. 1. A. too bad the explosion was nowhere near "city destroying." Hell, the Sand Village isn't even a "city", it's a village, and from what we saw, the bomb would not have even destroyed that. B. Thin? MY. ASS. It was AT LEAST 10 feet thick, probably more, and like I said, the explosion was not that big. If his shield was concentrated? Sandman's fists can easily shred through reinforced steel and more, he can condense his fists to make class 100 blows, that is at least twice as strong as Tsunade. If his shield is concentrated, he will just be expending more chakra, whereas Sandman will never get tired.

2. He enacted the shield by shooting sand in the direction of the bomb, he has never enacted a shield that large or strong very quickly for his own personal protectiong, and like I said, he will be expending WAY too much chakra for practical use. And like I said...The bomb blast was like...100 feet in diameter at best, it is not as strong as you like to pretend it is, Sandman can make his own body bigger than that. And if he makes himself say...100 feet tall, Sandman would be physically strong enough to CRUSH Gaara and any shield.

3. YAY! I won something! What do I get?

But I know why you though that, Deidara's suicide explosion against Sasuke did in fact have a Mushroom Cloud.

4. Not really, it is literally part of his own body. He controls it as we would our arms and legs, actually, he has greater control than that. Sandman's sand is under his full control. No, like how you can't prove that Gaara's sand is immune to Gaara. Which is why I say neither of them can control eachother's sand.

5. A. Well IMO both just collect all the sand they can, Sandman by absorbing it. B. Why could he not? He absorbs sand to add to his mass...That's one of his most basic powers. He would just need to stay out of the water, and given the sheer size of most beaches, that should not be a problem. C. Which would do what? It will separate him from the sand he needs to control. Which would screw him.

6. Gaara has to stand on solid sand. Solid sand that Sandman can stand on. And that will COMPLETELY fvck Gaara up because he will be separated from the sand on the beach, and will be defenseless to the powerhouse that is Sandman.

7. Any proof he can? Wet sand does not hold together well and is not easiloy controlled, even by a living elemental like Sandman. The sand once out of the water won't be sand...It would be mud just as you said.

well the village is observably as big as a small city, and the explosion WOULD have destroyed it, thats why the shield was as large as the village, or nearly.

gaara wins. i havent seen sandman do enough to think that he has either the speed or the strength to harm gaara. and gaara has chakra and the bijuu. there is nuthing to say that sandman's control over sand is greater than gaara. against kimimaru, gaara was changing the entire landscape and forest.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i havent seen

And the rest of the post just crumbles into worthlessness.

Unless....

I assume you have every issue involving Sandman, right? Since you consider yourself positioned with enough ground to make the conclusion that Gaara wins.

This is what happens when comic book fans come to the manga board. I'm a comic book fan myself but unlike some of the others I don't have this blind bias towards comics over mangas. Also to those thinking sandman would have more control over sand than gaara imo your wrong. For all intents gaaras abilities are magical. He has the Shukaku(not looking it up, I'm pretty sure I'm right) what I would equivilate to a sand god in naruto.

Also to the people who belittle Rock Lee's strength. Are you mad? do you know how much weigth that little guy walks around with, without even limping? Do you know how insanely fast he moves? If you even think for a second that spiderman can beat Rock Lee alone I'm ignoring you. Spiderman wouldn't even be able to see Rock Lee coming and Lee's punches pack a mean punch.

If you don't like mangas move along please because I hate seeing hate seeing biased remarks. This is where I expect someone from the comic board to say some stupid feat about spiderman doing something that by all intents he shouldn't(and they know it) be able to do. Like "well spiderman beat firelord so bleh" or Hulk for that matter.

how cud gaara lose to sum1 who got his but kicked by spidey over and over again? and becci, im a bigger marvel/western comics fan than manga fan and i have seen enough of sandman to know that he doesnt have a shot. wud u mind putting up non PIS feats of sandman which makes u think he cud?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
how cud gaara lose to sum1 who got his but kicked by spidey over and over again? and becci, im a bigger marvel/western comics fan than manga fan and i have seen enough of sandman to know that he doesnt have a shot. wud u mind putting up non PIS feats of sandman which makes u think he cud? And how does Spidey usually beat Sandman? If it's anything like the cartoons it's because of his huge weakness to water. And the fact Spider-Man is one of the smartest people around which Gaara isn't. Nor does Gaara do anything but control sand. He doesn't control water or anything else that would work against Sandman. Originally posted by razor4life
Also to the people who belittle Rock Lee's strength. Are you mad? do you know how much weigth that little guy walks around with, without even limping? Do you know how insanely fast he moves? If you even think for a second that spiderman can beat Rock Lee alone I'm ignoring you. Spiderman wouldn't even be able to see Rock Lee coming and Lee's punches pack a mean punch.

If you don't like mangas move along please because I hate seeing hate seeing biased remarks. This is where I expect someone from the comic board to say some stupid feat about spiderman doing something that by all intents he shouldn't(and they know it) be able to do. Like "well spiderman beat firelord so bleh" or Hulk for that matter. What does Lee have to do with Gaara being slower than Spidey? The only thing to do with Lee is that Sandman is stronger.

And what does Hulk doing stuff have to do with anything? And Spider-man usually doesn't do stuff he shouldn't that I've ever seen.

yes, gaara became kazekage because of his dimwittedness right?

Just because Gaara isn't some idiot like Naruto doesn't mean he's a genius. And he became Kazekage because he was the most powerful and because the elders were all scared of him not because he was smart. He's far below Parker when it comes to being a genius. Heck he's far below Temari when it comes to being a genius.

his father was scared of him. uro killed him. so thats not the reason he became kazekage. he IS smart.

Except for..brains had nothing to do with it. And ALL the elders were scared of him. You know the ones who chose him. His father didn't choose him to be Kazekage. Heck everybody except Temari, Kankuro, and their teacher were scared of him up until his death. He was also the most powerful in the village which helped.

Originally posted by razor4life
Also to the people who belittle Rock Lee's strength. Are you mad? do you know how much weigth that little guy walks around with, without even limping? Do you know how insanely fast he moves? If you even think for a second that spiderman can beat Rock Lee alone I'm ignoring you. Spiderman wouldn't even be able to see Rock Lee coming and Lee's punches pack a mean punch.

I want to slap you. May I slap you? I feel the urge and it would ease my heart

Now on a more serious note. Sandman can press 170.000 pounds. No one in this thread has said that Spider-Man can beat Rock Lee. What you are trying to preform is A>B>C logic, which is the absolutely worst way to base your opinions at.

Originally posted by razor4life
Also to the people who belittle Rock Lee's strength. Are you mad? do you know how much weigth that little guy walks around with, without even limping? Do you know how insanely fast he moves? If you even think for a second that spiderman can beat Rock Lee alone I'm ignoring you. Spiderman wouldn't even be able to see Rock Lee coming and Lee's punches pack a mean punch.




This made me LOL more.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
well the village is observably as big as a small city, and the explosion WOULD have destroyed it, thats why the shield was as large as the village, or nearly.

gaara wins. i havent seen sandman do enough to think that he has either the speed or the strength to harm gaara. and gaara has chakra and the bijuu. there is nuthing to say that sandman's control over sand is greater than gaara. against kimimaru, gaara was changing the entire landscape and forest. The village is as big as a large town at best from what I have seen. The shield was NOWHERE NEAR as large as the village, if it was...Lol that is a small ass village.

Other than the fact that Gaara cannot hurt him and Sandman can one hit kill Gaara?

Originally posted by razor4life
Also to the people who belittle Rock Lee's strength. Are you mad? do you know how much weigth that little guy walks around with, without even limping? Do you know how insanely fast he moves? If you even think for a second that spiderman can beat Rock Lee alone I'm ignoring you. Spiderman wouldn't even be able to see Rock Lee coming and Lee's punches pack a mean punch.

If you don't like mangas move along please because I hate seeing hate seeing biased remarks. This is where I expect someone from the comic board to say some stupid feat about spiderman doing something that by all intents he shouldn't(and they know it) be able to do. Like "well spiderman beat firelord so bleh" or Hulk for that matter. Which does not come close to proving he is anywhere near as strong as Spiderman, let alone Sandman. Spiderman in H2H would crush Rock Lee. He is fast enough, is stronger, and has precog.

Stfu.

So your reply is an emoticon and a lol, nice contribution, moving on. Btw Jugglenaut the majority of my post are on the comic book board and my knowledge of comics is better than my knowledge of mangas. Why am i even responding to your lame reply.

Also diamond I see what your saying, ignoring the stupid slap remark. Yet i'm not the first to use said logic in this thread. If you feel like policing the thread then atleast go after all the perps.

Jaxx did you seriously just say spiderman owns rock lee in h2h. What have you been smoking? Do you even read or watch naruto? Or do you just wiki up some information? Spiderman on average and most showings is not as fast, or as strong as rock lee in combat(key term here). Knowing you though you'll pick some high showing that makes no sense to be your backing. He also gets tagged by things moving at a regular speed frequently enough. He may dodge a few but then one lands.

I'll give spidey the durability and the fact that he's an incredible deal smarter than Rock Lee. Anyways you can have the last word I don't care lets get back on topic. Sorry for the minor derailment didn't think it would drag out this far or did I? Gaara has the shukaku if he's allowed to use that in this fight he wins. Unless you think Sandman beats the Shukaku also.

Originally posted by razor4life
So your reply is an emoticon and a lol, nice contribution, moving on. Btw Jugglenaut the majority of my post are on the comic book board and my knowledge of comics is better than my knowledge of mangas. Why am i even responding to your lame reply.

Also diamond I see what your saying, ignoring the stupid slap remark. Yet i'm not the first to use said logic in this thread. If you feel like policing the thread then atleast go after all the perps.

Remark? Stupid? It was a question ermm My father always told me there is no such thing as stupid questions. Only stupid answers.

Now: Why should I go after others, when I found your post propriate enough. Besides, would you jump of a bridge just because others in this thread did so? Others using A>B>C does not make your usage of it any less garbage. I replied to your post specificly because I reacted to your post, and not any of the others.

Spiderman is nearly as fast, he has precog to sense what he is gonna do, is more durable and smarter, and is stronger. Spiderman would crush Rock Lee unless he opened the gates.

But fact is Sandman hits MUCH harder than Lee, who broke the Sand Shield.

and yes, I do read Naruto, in fact my knowledge of it likely crushes yours.

If Gaara goes Shukaku, Gaara's body will be hanging lifelessly on Shukaku's forehead, which is far too easy a target.

Sandman is by no means as powerful as Shukaku, but Shukaku could not down him, and Sandman will kill the defenseless Gaara.


And on a side note DK's sig=T3h sexiest sig on KMC.

Spider-Man beats Gaara and so does Sandman. Sandman is class 50+ tonne easy there is no way Gaara could even hope to survive one hit. Also before the fanboys start crying, Rock Lee is no where near that strength, he is barely in the 1 tonne range. Gaara has even less of a chance if its time skip because he has no automatic shield, not that it could survive hits from some one of Sandman's strength.

Sandman is class 75 normally, but can condense his punches to class 100 force.

I don't know if Spiderman could beat Gaara...Seems like a bit of a stretch.

I wouldn't say spiderman is nearly as fast not even close. Do you seriously put spidermans speed on par or even close to Rock Lee's? I would like to think you don't but you say you do. His precog is most likely on par with Gaara's defense in terms of keeping up with attacks. I would agree though that sandman hits harder. In terms of spiderman being stronger than Rock Lee even that's debatable when it comes to combat strength.

How much weight does Rock Lee have on his body? Do you see the damage that is done when he tosses them off? Also by manga and the series even the movies(if you count them) Rock Lee is stronger than spidey in combat. The kid creates creates in many of his serious battles.

Originally posted by razor4life
How much weight does Rock Lee have on his body? Do you see the damage that is done when he tosses them off? Consider we have no idea how durable the floor was and also the fact they dropped from quite a height they would not have to weigh much at all. Maybe 500lbs and that is being generous.

Originally posted by razor4life
I wouldn't say spiderman is nearly as fast not even close. Do you seriously put spidermans speed on par or even close to Rock Lee's? I would like to think you don't but you say you do. His precog is most likely on par with Gaara's defense in terms of keeping up with attacks. I would agree though that sandman hits harder. In terms of spiderman being stronger than Rock Lee even that's debatable when it comes to combat strength.

How much weight does Rock Lee have on his body? Do you see the damage that is done when he tosses them off? Also by manga and the series even the movies(if you count them) Rock Lee is stronger than spidey in combat. The kid creates creates in many of his serious battles. Spiderman easily dodges bullets. Rock Lee has never dodged anything that fast. No it really is not.

Rock Lee's weights are AT BEST one ton each. Nothing to Spidey. Rock Lee has never created a crater in combat without opening Gates.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
Sandman can press 170.000 pounds

I just thought I would quote myself. That is roughly 80 ton, is it not? Besides, that is PRESS. A punch comes with a lot more force.

spiderman dodges gunfire because of his precog. to even THINK that parker has a chance against gaara is pure ignorance. gun fire wudnt be much at all to dodge to a good ninja in naruto. and how much did gamabunta's knife weight, seeing that its a solid piece of metal about a sky scrapper high.

Precognition is not the whole case, now is it? Even with precognition, you need matching skills in order to preform a successful dodge.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
spiderman dodges gunfire because of his precog. to even THINK that parker has a chance against gaara is pure ignorance. gun fire wudnt be much at all to dodge to a good ninja in naruto. and how much did gamabunta's knife weight, seeing that its a solid piece of metal about a sky scrapper high. Prove ANYTHING in Naruto moves as fast as a bullet.

I would say it weighs at best 50 tons. It may be like 50 feet long, but it is only about 6 feet wide at best.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
spiderman dodges gunfire because of his precog. to even THINK that parker has a chance against gaara is pure ignorance. gun fire wudnt be much at all to dodge to a good ninja in naruto. and how much did gamabunta's knife weight, seeing that its a solid piece of metal about a sky scrapper high. Are you trying to say Gaara is fast? He is the slowest ninja in the damn series, he doesnt even move during a fight. Not like his sand is incredibley fast either, nothing Spider-man could not doge. Applying real world physics liek the speed of a bullet to Naruto just doesn't work as there are no real comparisons, you can't really prove any of them could dodge a bullet as there are no numbers to work with.

So know people are saying Spider-Man > Gaara?? What the...Spider-Man probably has the ability to dodge most of what Gaara can do depending on if Gaara can only use his sand or if they are in a place with a lot of sand..but no way Spidey is hitting Gaara.

Originally posted by Kento
but no way Spidey is hitting Gaara. We don't even know if he still has his auto sand shield and he didn't use it after the time skip. Spider-Man could more than likely punch right through his sand. You can't prove his shields would stand up to punches with 20 tonnes of force behind them. Rock Lee is no where near that strength, not at all and he is the only person to have punched his sand sheild. Spider-man could still bypass it with agility, he just needs to hit different spots fast enough which is not hard for him.

Uh... Are we still talking about Gaara vs. Sandman or are we now talking about Spidey vs. Gaara and Lee?

Well, this is a Gaara Vs. Sandman thread, but I think the Naruto people are having a hard time dealing with the fact that one with a named possibly thought up by a 5 year old and a villain of a silly webslinger can beat the mighty Gaara, so I think the debate is more now what type of strength and fighters that we are dealing with shrug

To quote a friend of mine:

Originally posted by razor4life
I hate seeing hate seeing biased remarks. This is where I expect someone from the anime board to say some stupid feat about Gaara doing something that by all intents he shouldn't(and they know it) be able to do. Like "well Gaara beat Rock Lee so bleh"

People were just doing what I call b!tch debating and bringing up how Sandman has lost to Spiderman, now this thread is about Spiderman vs. Gaara.

A>B>C logic. Gotta hate it.

I recall you using it a few times in the past DK. 131

he has people just bash that logic when it doesn't work in their favor. We have all used said logic at some point. Yes it is a flawed way. Also I've always taken the cartoons and certain extended marvel created media of Spider-man as canon towards his speed.

Certain people though register to character myth instead of the actual character. Spider-man is fast but some register to the myth based speed instead of how he actual moves and fights.

Please if your gonna bring in Spider-God then this isn't a debate this is you doing anything you can to make your favorite character win. The comics are not the only canon source for Hero abilities. The extended universes that are marvel licensed tend to portray the character as they are in comics. Live action movies excluded. Yet when certain people from the comics see that the cartoons don't adhere to the myth they right it off. Even when it's backed by the comic book company.

Please people get this idea out of your head that Spider-man moves and fights at these mind boggling speeds you have in your heads. We have rock lee in manga and anime moving faster than people can keep up with and juggling them in the air. He also has created craters without opening gates, but after removing weights. Heck by the anime and manga(can show proof if your thick headed) Rock Lee breaks the sound barrier when he fights. If your gonna tell me Spidey does that then I give up. Also for the love of god spider-mans precog anticipates bullets it doesn't dodge them after fire.

Also I would give the win to sandman over gaara. Just not Shukaku gaara though. Gaara doesn't move fast and sandman is much stronger. Oh jesus i keep forgetting to use edit button to add replies jebuz i'm on too many different forums lolz.

Originally posted by razor4life
he has people just bash that logic when it doesn't work in their favor. We have all used said logic at some point. Yes it is a flawed way. Also I've always taken the cartoons and certain extended marvel created media of Spider-man as canon towards his speed.

Certain people though register to character myth instead of the actual character. Spider-man is fast but some register to the myth based speed instead of how he actual moves and fights.

Please if your gonna bring in Spider-God then this isn't a debate this is you doing anything you can to make your favorite character win. The comics are not the only canon source for Hero abilities. The extended universes that are marvel licensed tend to portray the character as they are in comics. Live action movies excluded. Yet when certain people from the comics see that the cartoons don't adhere to the myth they right it off. Even when it's backed by the comic book company.

Please people get this idea out of your head that Spider-man moves and fights at these mind boggling speeds you have in your heads. We have rock lee in manga and anime moving faster than people can keep up with and juggling them in the air. He also has created craters without opening gates, but after removing weights. Heck by the anime and manga(can show proof if your thick headed) Rock Lee breaks the sound barrier when he fights. If your gonna tell me Spidey does that then I give up. Also for the love of god spider-mans precog anticipates bullets it doesn't dodge them after fire. ...So now the noncanon aspects of comics are canon?

That's bullshit.

And Rock Lee in the canon manga has NEVER broken the sound barrier or created a crater without the Gates.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I recall you using it a few times in the past DK. 131

Yeah well I suck. Others do not have the same excuse. Besides, sometimes it does work. But not times like "Oh but he loses to Batman. Since Batman has no powers, Clayman sucks for losing to him" An example of when A>B>C would work would be "Well, Superman could defeat him, so obviously Superman Prime would be able to"

But out of curiosity, when have I used A>B>C logic? oh

Let me start off by saying that the level of ignorance to comics is astounding. Any Spidey wins over Sandman is PIS or a result of exploiting the surrounding area, similar to how I think gaara would this fight. Spiderman would never have a chance against Sandman in a straight up fight and so using his fights as a basis for Sandman's defeat is just ridiculous.

Second, Spiderman has been proven to have reactive speed far superior to bullets. He does not rely on just his spidey sense. I have the scans coming out of my ass to prove it. Spiderman would wreck Rock Lee even if he used the gates and that's all there is to it.



Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. A. too bad the explosion was nowhere near "city destroying." Hell, the Sand Village isn't even a "city", it's a village,


You said yourself that it was more of a large town. A large town and a city are essentially the same thing. This is semantics...




Agreed. That explosion looks large enough to encompass at least multiple blocks though.



Thin is a relative term.




And that puts it above a bomb that could potentially vaporize multiple city blocks, how?



My point was that all of that sand that Gaara used to stop the bomb was spread over a large surface area. The larger the surface area of an object is, the more strain will be put upon it in certain spots, mostly the middle (Think of a wooden board bending in the middle under weight or standing in the middle of a trampoline .). So if instead of spreading the sand outwards Gaara could actually use less sand and create a smaller surface area, instead just layering it in front of him, and that would actually increase the strength of the sand shield. Less sand being used equals less chakra utilized. Do you get what I'm saying?




This would be the winning factor in Sandman's favor above everything else.



Doesn't mean he can't. He's never fought someone with such strength before though. You've already said that in vs. fights it's standard that both fighters know of the others potential. So I don't see why he couldn't erect (hee-hee) a shield like that. And I'm still not entirely convinced that Sandman could go right through his regular sand also. It'd be nice if someone could post some Sandman scans. It's blasphemy and all around gay that he doesn't have a respect thread since he's one of Spidey's better villains.




Meh. Agreed. It would be impracticable. Thus, the last few paragraphs of my argument have been rendered irrelevant. Damn it.




I disagree. I see the scan and it looks larger. More like the size of a large football stadium imo.



A night with Furion's mom.




So if he is literally made of nothing but sand then why can't Gaara control him with his chakra? At that point it's not just a fight for control of his sand but for his own sand being.



If I was asked the question, I would say that it is because Gaara's sand is not ordinary sand, but sand that is enhanced with his chakra and Shukaku's special chakra.



Because a large enough object made of sand would collapse upon itself...




Gaara, unlike Sandman, does not have to be "in contact" with sand at all to control it, because he is not controlling ti with himself but with chakra. It's like how a ninja can use a water jutsu like a water dragon, even if they're not touching the water. If Gaara can use the surrounding deserts sand while floating hundreds of feet above it, he can probably do it while hovering above water as well.




Proof?



Really? Last I checked Gaara made a cloud to float on that was just barely large enough to hold him and Lee. That being said, he could probably make one just large enough for himself as well. But just for more laughs. Instead of making a floating pedestal, how about Gaara just uses the universal shinobi ability to walk on water and stands out in the water? Another option. The whole "beach" thing makes this whole scenario kind of gay. It's like having Charmander fight in the middle of the pacific.



Well (Blaxican going out on a limb), the human body itself holds literally gallons of water between he blood and other parts of your body. Gaara crushes people until they are, literally dust, which would mean that all of the fluids and bloods (His sand is stated to be soaked with blood) would be mixed in with his sand... which would mean until the liquids dry his sand is quite wet. There is no slow down or extra effort needed to use the sand. Gaara uses his chakra to summon minerals from deep within the earth and crushes rocks into sand for his own use. I don't see why using sand that is wet would be a problem.



This would only be important if Gaara was trying to create something or make a solid object, which is why Sandman get's ****ed up by it so much. If all you're doing is picking it up and hurling it the compoisiton of the sand is irrelevant. You can pick up a glop of mud ad throw it. Good luck trying to make a sand castle out of it though.



Proof?



Sandman can't use mud because he uses sand by turning it into solid objects. Gaara is not confined to that, though.



Mud is sand that is wet.

Lol you seriously believe spider-man would wreck lee even after the gates lolz. I guess you can't beat the myth.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
spiderman dodges gunfire because of his precog.

Really? So that's why he manages to avoid all sorts of stuff even after it's been fired. I won't waste my time creating a new argument for you. So instead I'll just use the same argument I use all the time... that has yet to be truly defeated ( I crushed a poor gal in a Spidey vs. Kidomaru thread).

Dodging at least ten sniper rifle bullets: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6981/feat1speedli3.jpg

Dodging multiple machine gun fire effortlessly.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3193/feat44speed1kf2.jpg
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/75/feat44speed2is7.jpg
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6302/feat8speedfm4.jpg

Dodges duel wielded shotgun fire. Keep in mind that Shotgun shells disperse when they're fired. They spread out. So by the time the shells reach Spidey one can argue that the spread of the shells would equal that of those webs. Also keep in mind that the guy is firing two shotguns, so the air is literally swarmed with bullets:
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/8541/feat38speed2po0.jpg

Dodges a bullet fired at him from behind (Sharingan would fail epically at this. Sawsgay would get WTFpwned by two black kids in Harlem robbing a store with 9 MM pistols):
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9927/feat8speedskillswn2.jpg

Here's a good feat showing his reaction time:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7329/feat42speedmw3.jpg

More good reaction time. A man with a gun pulls the trigger, then after he pulls the trigger Spidey raises his hand and fires a sling of web that covers up the barrel before the bullet can even leave the muzzle. This speaks for both his own reaction time, and the speed of hsi webbing. Essentially, his webbing >>>> bullets in speed.:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/558/feat8speedng9.jpg

Again. A man pulls the trigger of his sniper rifle, and after he pulls the trigger and shoots the bullet Spidey jumps forward and tackles a girl out of the way. Spidey's speed >>> a sniper rifle round.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1697/feat16speedrm0.jpg

Spidey's movement and reaction speed are all far greater then anyone in Naruto. I'm willing t bet.

Razor, read above and learn. Show me proof that Rock Lee can even hope to move at these speeds.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/558/feat8speedng9.jpg

"Get in line"

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
( I crushed a poor gal in a Spidey vs. Kidomaru thread). That's not nice. estahuh

I'll get back to your gay post when I get on my other computer, this com has a shitty keyboard and stuff.

Though one thing I gotta say is...

Sandman doesn't have his own respect thread?

That's fvckin gay as hell.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Really? So that's why he manages to avoid all sorts of stuff even after it's been fired. I won't waste my time creating a new argument for you. So instead I'll just use the same argument I use all the time... that has yet to be truly defeated ( I crushed a poor gal in a Spidey vs. Kidomaru thread).

Dodging at least ten sniper rifle bullets: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6981/feat1speedli3.jpg

Dodging multiple machine gun fire effortlessly.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3193/feat44speed1kf2.jpg
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/75/feat44speed2is7.jpg
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6302/feat8speedfm4.jpg

Dodges duel wielded shotgun fire. Keep in mind that Shotgun shells disperse when they're fired. They spread out. So by the time the shells reach Spidey one can argue that the spread of the shells would equal that of those webs. Also keep in mind that the guy is firing two shotguns, so the air is literally swarmed with bullets:
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/8541/feat38speed2po0.jpg

Dodges a bullet fired at him from behind (Sharingan would fail epically at this. Sawsgay would get WTFpwned by two black kids in Harlem robbing a store with 9 MM pistols):
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9927/feat8speedskillswn2.jpg

Here's a good feat showing his reaction time:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7329/feat42speedmw3.jpg

More good reaction time. A man with a gun pulls the trigger, then after he pulls the trigger Spidey raises his hand and fires a sling of web that covers up the barrel before the bullet can even leave the muzzle. This speaks for both his own reaction time, and the speed of hsi webbing. Essentially, his webbing >>>> bullets in speed.:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/558/feat8speedng9.jpg

Again. A man pulls the trigger of his sniper rifle, and after he pulls the trigger and shoots the bullet Spidey jumps forward and tackles a girl out of the way. Spidey's speed >>> a sniper rifle round.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1697/feat16speedrm0.jpg

Spidey's movement and reaction speed are all far greater then anyone in Naruto. I'm willing t bet.

Razor, read above and learn. Show me proof that Rock Lee can even hope to move at these speeds.

So would that make Lee only mid or low street in comics? Because I'm sure more than just Batman in high street has dodged machine gun fire. And I know Batman has dodged a sniper rifle after it was fired.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
estahuh

Sandman doesn't have his own respect thread?

That's fvckin gay as hell.


Why don't you make one then and stop complaining?

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Why don't you make one then and stop complaining?

There is a HUGE difference between complaining and pointing out and commenting something. Why don't you just go elsewhere if you have nothing decent to say?

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Why don't you make one then and stop complaining? Why don't you make an occasional intelligent post and stop being an idiot?

Though if you MUST know, it's because I have no scans of him.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
You said yourself that it was more of a large town. A large town and a city are essentially the same thing. This is semantics...




Agreed. That explosion looks large enough to encompass at least multiple blocks though.



Thin is a relative term.




And that puts it above a bomb that could potentially vaporize multiple city blocks, how?



My point was that all of that sand that Gaara used to stop the bomb was spread over a large surface area. The larger the surface area of an object is, the more strain will be put upon it in certain spots, mostly the middle (Think of a wooden board bending in the middle under weight or standing in the middle of a trampoline .). So if instead of spreading the sand outwards Gaara could actually use less sand and create a smaller surface area, instead just layering it in front of him, and that would actually increase the strength of the sand shield. Less sand being used equals less chakra utilized. Do you get what I'm saying?




This would be the winning factor in Sandman's favor above everything else.



Doesn't mean he can't. He's never fought someone with such strength before though. You've already said that in vs. fights it's standard that both fighters know of the others potential. So I don't see why he couldn't erect (hee-hee) a shield like that. And I'm still not entirely convinced that Sandman could go right through his regular sand also. It'd be nice if someone could post some Sandman scans. It's blasphemy and all around gay that he doesn't have a respect thread since he's one of Spidey's better villains.




Meh. Agreed. It would be impracticable. Thus, the last few paragraphs of my argument have been rendered irrelevant. Damn it.




I disagree. I see the scan and it looks larger. More like the size of a large football stadium imo.



A night with Furion's mom.




So if he is literally made of nothing but sand then why can't Gaara control him with his chakra? At that point it's not just a fight for control of his sand but for his own sand being.



If I was asked the question, I would say that it is because Gaara's sand is not ordinary sand, but sand that is enhanced with his chakra and Shukaku's special chakra.



Because a large enough object made of sand would collapse upon itself...




Gaara, unlike Sandman, does not have to be "in contact" with sand at all to control it, because he is not controlling ti with himself but with chakra. It's like how a ninja can use a water jutsu like a water dragon, even if they're not touching the water. If Gaara can use the surrounding deserts sand while floating hundreds of feet above it, he can probably do it while hovering above water as well.




Proof?



Really? Last I checked Gaara made a cloud to float on that was just barely large enough to hold him and Lee. That being said, he could probably make one just large enough for himself as well. But just for more laughs. Instead of making a floating pedestal, how about Gaara just uses the universal shinobi ability to walk on water and stands out in the water? Another option. The whole "beach" thing makes this whole scenario kind of gay. It's like having Charmander fight in the middle of the pacific.



Well (Blaxican going out on a limb), the human body itself holds literally gallons of water between he blood and other parts of your body. Gaara crushes people until they are, literally dust, which would mean that all of the fluids and bloods (His sand is stated to be soaked with blood) would be mixed in with his sand... which would mean until the liquids dry his sand is quite wet. There is no slow down or extra effort needed to use the sand. Gaara uses his chakra to summon minerals from deep within the earth and crushes rocks into sand for his own use. I don't see why using sand that is wet would be a problem.



This would only be important if Gaara was trying to create something or make a solid object, which is why Sandman get's ****ed up by it so much. If all you're doing is picking it up and hurling it the compoisiton of the sand is irrelevant. You can pick up a glop of mud ad throw it. Good luck trying to make a sand castle out of it though.



Proof?



Sandman can't use mud because he uses sand by turning it into solid objects. Gaara is not confined to that, though.



Mud is sand that is wet. 1. Well IMO a large town is not as big as a city...I could be wrong about that though.

2. I'll give you that.

3. True, but IMO it was not that thin. Since I concede that the blast was a little bigger than I thought, that means the shield was even bigger.

4. It doesn't. Not like Gaara could use such a shield practically anyway. It took up all of Gaara's attention and it takes alot of chakra to mantain.

5. Yes I get what you are saying Assklown, but like I said such a large shield and mantaining such a shield against Sandman's assault is not practical.

6. ...Well yeah. Gaara's stamina unlike Sandman's is not limitless.

7. Yeah...I actually have no scans of Sandman at all. If it ain't Pyron, Saint of Killers, PR Beyonder, or Superman Prime, I probably will not be able to get scans of them. But Sandman IS physically stronger than Naruto's strongest, and Rock Lee without the Gates was able to break the sand, if only slightly. Sandman is like 70 times stronger than Rock Lee, and that's not counting when he condenses his fists. Seriously though, that's some ol' bullshit, Sandman is fvckin awesome and needs his own respect thread.

8. LOL I WIN AGAIN! Wut do I get this time?

9. Not IMO, the building tight by it doesn't look that big, I might be wrong though, maybe like a football field in diameter.

10. That's bullshit. I did her hundreds of times. How about an all nighter with...Your cousin

11. Here is the thing, Gaara controls non-moving, non-living sand which cannot move of its own accord, the same cannot be said for Sandman.

12. Exactly, hence why I think nether could control eachother's personal sand. ^_^

13. Logically it should. But Sandman is not the same. He controls every particle of sand.

14. True, and doing so will be draining more and more chakra. Stamina is a factor for Gaara in this fight. And besides, what will sand attacks do to Sandman?

15. ...You want PROOF that sand is solid?

Dude...Come on.

16. Then Sandman flies up and turns solid above Gaara and pushes him off as he falls. As for standing in the water, great, another way to consume chakra. Although a better option than the floating sand pedestal. But it will still slowly drain his chakra along with the armor of sand and his massive sand attacks. Also, why will Sandman let Gaara just go over there? Gaara is SLOOOOOOOOOOW, probably the slowest in the series.

17. Hmmm...Maybe, although the Sand Burial also crushes at such speeds that it probably does not get as drenched as sand from underwater would be IMO.

18. True...Although this raises the question of why Sandman cannot just move out of the way.

19. What I meant is because its composition is weak it would fall apart easily.

20. I give you that.

21. Nah ah, it is earth that is wet, not just sand. Get yo facts straight nigga. 131

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwgEVk2slZ8

I know this is filler but this is very much Rock Lee.

If it is filler, it not only equals canon, it probably equals ghey bullshit.

Dude u know rock moves that fast in canon too so get of your horse. I'm still baffled by how fast you people think spider-man moves. If anything spider-man has reaction speed his battle speed is nothing special.

I didn't even watch the frickin vid.

Just pointing out filler is noncanon and isn't evidence.

But fact is by feats Spiderman is faster and stronger.

Originally posted by razor4life
Dude u know rock moves that fast in canon too so get of your horse. I'm still baffled by how fast you people think spider-man moves. If anything spider-man has reaction speed his battle speed is nothing special. Its one of the 50 retarded filler episodes, the guy saying he moves faster than sound means about as much as you saying it. I also doubt any one thinks spider-man is that fast you just have some weird logic going on that you have to be faster than Lee to beat Gaara.

Originally posted by razor4life
Dude u know rock moves that fast in canon too so get of your horse. I'm still baffled by how fast you people think spider-man moves. If anything spider-man has reaction speed his battle speed is nothing special. Reaction speed to dodge bullets goes towards battle speed.

Uh Gaara wasn't in the equation. Have you read the thread at all? I already said sandman beats Gaara(non Shukaku). This is just a Rock/Spidey thing. Trust me people think spider-man does a lot of things he doesn't.

Infact i wouldn't be surprised if they thought he could dodge an assault by Flash. When comic fans come over to the anime/manga board not a single anime/manga character can beat the heroes they like. Heck in the vs thread Klown says a fight between Naruto and Robin would be tough to call. Are you kidding me?

Stfu and GTFO.

Assklown already pwned you with proofz.

Ecsqueeze me?
Lee has punched trees in half and ripped a tree root out of the ground.. And we're talking tree roots on steroids.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/NikKingMan/vlcsnap-3945060.png

Hell, calcs for Lee's leg weights alone are usually in excess of one ton.

Shit, Naruto at his regular PTS levels could overpower a 20-foot tall snake.

It should also be noted that Tsunade uses her chakra control to produce the devastation of her fists - it's not raw lifting power and strength. This means she essentially "punched" Bunta's knife dozens of feet into the air. 50 tons is a low estimate for the weight BTW.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Ecsqueeze me?
Lee has punched trees in half and ripped a tree root out of the ground.. And we're talking tree roots on steroids.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/NikKingMan/vlcsnap-3945060.png

Hell, calcs for Lee's leg weights alone are usually in excess of one ton.

Shit, Naruto at his regular PTS levels could overpower a 20-foot tall snake.

It should also be noted that Tsunade uses her chakra control to produce the devastation of her fists - it's not raw lifting power and strength. This means she essentially "punched" Bunta's knife dozens of feet into the air. 50 tons is a low estimate for the weight BTW. 1. All of which Spiderman could easily do. He is in the 25 ton range on average.

Naruto overpowered a snake with the power of the Kyuubi, which>>>Lee by a firm margin.

Tsunade lifted and stabbed Bunta's knife...Which was at best 50 tons.

Which ain't much on Sandman.

Proof of what that spiderman can dodge bullets? Batman can dodge bullets also. When did bullet dodging become a great feat? Also dude calm down getting a lil testy are we? Also the bullet dodging is reaction he isn't moving faster than a bullet. He can react before hense the sense.

Originally posted by razor4life
Proof of what that spiderman can dodge bullets? Batman can dodge bullets also. When did bullet dodging become a great feat? Also dude calm down getting a lil testy are we? There is like a whole feat list on the last page of Spidey dodging bullets...Which I quoted and said about Batman being able to do the same thing.

Originally posted by razor4life
Proof of what that spiderman can dodge bullets? Batman can dodge bullets also. When did bullet dodging become a great feat? Also dude calm down getting a lil testy are we? Also the bullet dodging is reaction he isn't moving faster than a bullet. He can react before hense the sense. You didn't even look at the scans apparently. He has dodged shit AFTER it was fired.

Bullets are far faster than anything Lee has dodged.

Batman is a MA master and is a high street level, hence giving him massive access to the PISforce.

But fo rell, he just predicts where the bad guys will fire.

Batman at his absolute best would solo Naruto.

Busting Darkseid's lip ftw. 131

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx


Naruto overpowered a snake with the power of the Kyuubi, which>>>Lee by a firm margin.



Not if the Kimimaro fight has anything to say about that. Kyuubi Naruto was getting beat while Lee was able to do a lot better while being weakned. And Naruto until he got one-tail never even moved close to as fast as Lee and he's not as strong even with Kyuubi.

Who cares?



No he didn't. Naruto at base is nothing compared to Lee.
He didn't even "power up".



50 tons = low estimate again.
She also never lifted it. We never once see her lift it. Even in the anime all we ever see is the dagger falling through the air with Tsunade on the back of it.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
You didn't even look at the scans apparently. He has dodged shit AFTER it was fired.

Bullets are far faster than anything Lee has dodged.

Batman is a MA master and is a high street level, hence giving him massive access to the PISforce.

But fo rell, he just predicts where the bad guys will fire.

Batman at his absolute best would solo Naruto.

Busting Darkseid's lip ftw. 131 Batman's dodged gunfire after it was fired. Once while hanging on a rope, and injured. Well..almost anyway one of like 13 bullets hit him.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Who cares?



No he didn't. Naruto at base is nothing compared to Lee.
He didn't even "power up".



50 tons = low estimate again.
She also never lifted it. We never once see her lift it. Even in the anime all we ever see is the dagger falling through the air with Tsunade on the back of it. 1. Spiderman is much stronger than Lee.

2. Naruto with the Kyuubi beat Neji. Something Lee cannot do. Go figure.

Naruto with the Kyuubi beat Gaara. Sumthin Lee failed at and nearly died in. Go figure.

3. Going by its size, that's about what it is.

...So we assume she punched it downwards?

Originally posted by Kento
Batman's dodged gunfire after it was fired. Once while hanging on a rope, and injured. Well..almost anyway one of like 13 bullets hit him. Hence why I said he has massive access to the PISforce.

Batman obviously >>>> 5 Gates Lee!
Duh.

The PISforce is indeed great.

That's only because he had two sets of chakra. When Neji cut off one he could tap into another.
Neji is a beast in taijutsu and all Lee has is taijutsu.
I also say it's shit that Lee couldn't beat Neji. He should be more than able.



He never even hurt Gaara until he summoned Gamabunta.



Complain to Kishi that his physics don't work.

Tsunade still beats The Thing.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
That's only because he had two sets of chakra. When Neji cut off one he could tap into another.
Neji is a beast in taijutsu and all Lee has is taijutsu.
I also say it's shit that Lee couldn't beat Neji. He should be more than able.



He never even hurt Gaara until he summoned Gamabunta.



Complain to Kishi that his physics don't work. 1. Still Kyuubi Naruto. And btw Kento, when Naruto first went Kyuubi, he was faster than Lee.

2. Bull. Crap. Naruto shoved a frickin Kunai up Gaara's ass.

3. Prove she punched it downwards, cause I remember her actually holding the sword.

Jaxx if I was to look at your post of manga vs. comic characters what would I find? I know you comment on manga vs. manga but when i get into manga vs. comic what would I find? You just strike me as blindly biased to western comics.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Still Kyuubi Naruto. And btw Kento, when Naruto first went Kyuubi, he was faster than Lee.

2. Bull. Crap. Naruto shoved a frickin Kunai up Gaara's ass.

3. Prove she punched it downwards, cause I remember her actually holding the sword. When he fought Haku?

As for the Neji fight...he beat him in a way Lee has no chance. By tricking him with a Shadow Clone. Which was PIS in itself because the Byakugan was on if I remember right and should have been able to see underground.

Naruto didn't have to get pass his sand defense. And Gaara used up all his chakra summoning Shukaku it seems so all he had to do was wake him up, and Gaara still was able to move better than Naruto could. He just left though with a bit of help. That's the only reason Naruto won.

...Motherfvcker, I read more manga and am generally much more knowledgable on manga than I am on comics.

But here is a FACT.

Comic characters generally are more powerful than manga.

You have characters in comics like Superman Prime pushing planets into planets, Hulk moving tectonic plates of a planet, Trion Juggernaut punching through dimensional barriers, and friggin omnipotent characters are a dime a dozen.

If I say a comic character is stronger than a manga one, I do it cause I think they are more powerful.

Gaara said flat out after Naruto used the explosion at the base of his tail that "it didn't wound ".



Are you talking about against Haku?



Believe me man. I've looked at the scene a lot of times and all we're ever shown is her falling with the knife and putting it through Manda's mouth.
We never see her lift it or jump into the air with it.

Also why the heck aren't you on MSN?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Gaara said flat out after Naruto used the explosion at the base of his tail that "it didn't wound ".



Are you talking about against Haku?



Believe me man. I've looked at the scene a lot of times and all we're ever shown is her falling with the knife and putting it through Manda's mouth.
We never see her lift it or jump into the air with it.

Also why the heck aren't you on MSN? 1. Not badly, but it knocked Gaara flying and shit, and also Gaara has an HF in that form.

2. Yeah. Haku with the mirrors was faster than Lee.

3. Can you show me though?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight



Believe me man. I've looked at the scene a lot of times and all we're ever shown is her falling with the knife and putting it through Manda's mouth.
We never see her lift it or jump into the air with it.

The fact it was stuck in the ground, and then she came out of the air holding it..makes one think she was able to lift it. Not hit it up. Just saying

Oh I know.
I was a long supporter of the lift argument too as this debate has been going on, in my personal experience, around 2-3 years.
I just think it's a better feat that she somehow hit the thing that high.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx


2. Yeah. Haku with the mirrors was faster than Lee.

Haku at first would have been. But he was also weakened from the fact that he was using up a lot of chakra and was getting slower. Sasuke was able to tag him because of this, and was able to get in front of Naruto because of this. Haku was hardly at full speed when Kyuubi emerged.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Oh I know.
I was a long supporter of the lift argument too as this debate has been going on, in my personal experience, around 2-3 years.
I just think it's a better feat that she somehow hit the thing that high. I think it would be more impressive jumping with that thing that high. Though lifting it means she had to have grabbed the blade part first to uproot it then grab the handle.

Jaxx, I'll get the scene with Bunta's knife. Gimme a bit. It'll have to upload to YouTube.

Originally posted by Kento
I think it would be more impressive jumping with that thing that high.

Alsoa valid point.

I like how your bringing up the top tier characters when we're talking about spider-man. Unless your actually putting him on said characters league. Both manga and comics have characters like that but they aren't usually the ones in question. Or if they are then it's usually a good match up from what I've seen on this board.

et somehow manga characters can never win and a lot of times it seems more like hate for the genre and people from other boards coming over to spread it. If you even bring a manga characters name up in the comic book thread the amount of negative comments that come after is funny.

I love how you bring up bias and unfairness yet have still failed to even address the list of feats I've already laid out for you. I'm going to lay out the facts for you now.

Fact 1: There is no canon source that claims Rock Lee can move even close to the speed of sound.

Fact 2 : Bullets move faster then sound. This why the saying "You never hear the bullet that kills you" was created.

Fact 3: Spiderman has dodged bullets numerous times.

Fact 4: Spiderman has dodged bullets even after they have been fired. This is proof that he does not always rely on his spider sense to dodge a bullet, but relies on his sheer superhuman reflexes. Unlike Batman, he has done this frequently enough for it to not be considered PIS.

Conclusion 1: Spiderman's reflexes are superior the speed of a bullet. Bullet's move faster then sound, so it is not above possibility for Spiderman to move and react faster then sound.

Conclusion 2: Rock Lee has never canonically shown the ability to move this fast, even with the gates. No Naruto character that I can think of has, outside of using a teleportation-esque jutsu like the body flicker.

Final Conclusion: Spiderman moves faster then Rock Lee, even with the gates opened.

Thus, Spiderman would wreck Rock Lee. If anyone has shown to be biased or a fanboy here, it is you. At least others have brought actual proof. The only thing you've brought to the table is non-canon showings and complaints. You're "argument", if you even all it that, is at best irritating. That is not a compliment.

Kirin > Spiderman.

Of course Lee doesn't have that but I just wanted to say it.

Doubt it. Spider sense > Kirin. Especially if Itachi can use Susannoo before the attacka ctually happened.

Can you please tell me why you use something(bullets) that isn't a common factor for both characters? Yet you've also come to the conclusion of how fast things move in Naruto?