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Who wins here?

1.Saber
2.Force
3.All out

Location-Palpatine's office

1. I honestly can't tell, but Sion is quite an unknown, and Vader is very powerful and is hardly a novice. I'd give it to Vader simply for that.

2. Sion. No lightsaber, and Sion's Lightning equals bad news for Vader.

3. Vader. For some reason I feel confident his physical power could withstand any Lightning Sion could throw at him. Using his impressive TK to help him out, I think Vader would eventually out-duel Sion enough to reduce his body to ash.

That poor corpse just doesn't have enough known abilities to help him out too often.

Originally posted by Tangible God
1. I honestly can't tell, but Sion is quite an unknown, and Vader is very powerful and is hardly a novice. I'd give it to Vader simply for that.

2. Sion. No lightsaber, and Sion's Lightning equals bad news for Vader.

3. Vader. For some reason I feel confident his physical power could withstand any Lightning Sion could throw at him. Using his impressive TK to help him out, I think Vader would eventually out-duel Sion enough to reduce his body to ash.

That poor corpse just doesn't have enough known abilities to help him out too often.
Agree with all but the force as I don't recall Sion using lighting but if you can tell me when he used it I will change my opinion

Originally posted by Icy Ninja
Agree with all but the force as I don't recall Sion using lighting but if you can tell me when he used it I will change my opinion I assume, actually. But as like every other Sith Lord does it, I figure he probably could. If he can't he's boned.

If we assume that tfu is cannon(i am not sure, since we are referring to the new hope incarnation of said villain), we can easily determine that:
Force=Vader 8/10 And I don't think that sion knows lightning. In fact, in some deleted scene or other, nihilus picks him up by the throat while lightninging him and draining him, and he doesnt seem adept enough to block it. While deleted scenes are not cannon, I hold to the belief that they still reveal the intentions of the writer.
Saber=Sion 6/10 once again, being able to take more then one swing is a great gambit to have, and being able to feed off of the pain makes him capable of taking Vader in sabers.

All out, vader, 7/10. His combination of saber skills and force powers give him the win, whereas while sion appears to be a physical beast, he doesn't have very many force powers that he displays.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
While deleted scenes are not cannon, I hold to the belief that they still reveal the intentions of the writer.
.

then shaak ti died both on the invinsible hand, and on Felucia. Quite a feat, not matched by many!

Sion may have force lightning, but what is going to stop vader from using the force and turn sion into a ragdoll?

Vader already nearly throttled marek to death despite marek being an extremely powerful individual.

Originally posted by truejedi
then shaak ti died both on the invinsible hand, and on Felucia. Quite a feat, not matched by many!

...I didn't saying they are cannon, but they wouldn't have been written into the movie/game in the first place if they didn't reveal something that the writer wanted to show about the character.

Originally posted by Tangible God
1. I honestly can't tell, but Sion is quite an unknown, and Vader is very powerful and is hardly a novice. I'd give it to Vader simply for that.

2. Sion. No lightsaber, and Sion's Lightning equals bad news for Vader.

3. Vader. For some reason I feel confident his physical power could withstand any Lightning Sion could throw at him. Using his impressive TK to help him out, I think Vader would eventually out-duel Sion enough to reduce his body to ash.

That poor corpse just doesn't have enough known abilities to help him out too often. 1. Sion impales himself like Vader did and sabers the life support
2.Vader strangles him and kills him and then starts to walk away, Sion resurrects self, Jumps and grabs Vader and punches life support until he dies.
3.Again Sion,"I can die a hundred times, Exile, and each time I shall rise, as strong as before." What part of Invincible do you stubborn asses not understand."As long as the dark side flows through the cracks of my flesh, I cannot be killed." "His flesh is cracked and scarred, and I'm registering several thousand fractures in his skeleton, as if each bone was splintered repeatedly, and then put back together. Judging from the scar tissue, these wounds took place before his death. If so, he must have been in constant pain." - Harbinger medical officer
As far as the chop him in pieces to kill him, that should explain that away. and besides that if chopping him to bits or killing him with the force was possible then HK-47 would have suggested that instead of making him doubt himself.

sabers: vader, sion doent have a lot of skill, if he was unable to regenerate he would be screwed.

force: sion hangs in the air by the throat and gets raquetteballed around the room.

all out: sion hangs in the air by the throat and gets raquetteballed around the room twice as hard for his insolence against darh vader

Originally posted by Man of Christ
sabers: vader, sion doent have a lot of skill, if he was unable to regenerate he would be screwed.

force: sion hangs in the air by the throat and gets raquetteballed around the room.

all out: sion hangs in the air by the throat and gets raquetteballed around the room twice as hard for his insolence against darh vader ANH Vader never SHOWED these abilities AT THAT TIME, IN THAT MOVIE(see I can be a KMC stubborn tight ass too) With what we see him do(totally disregarding everything else because it would hurt my arguement...*Tangible God*) in THAT SPECIFIC MOVIE AND ONLY THE MOVIE COUNTS AS TRUE CANON*guess who imma make fun with this one*



Oh and IF he was unable to regenerate then what was the point of the talk on malachor..

That being said, use some thought and in sabers Sion impales himself like Vader did with the Maul fight and to more or less of the same effect but lives without any meaningful harm.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
ANH Vader never SHOWED these abilities AT THAT TIME, IN THAT MOVIE(see I can be a KMC stubborn tight ass too) With what we see him do(totally disregarding everything else because it would hurt my arguement...*Tangible God*) in THAT SPECIFIC MOVIE AND ONLY THE MOVIE COUNTS AS TRUE CANON*guess who imma make fun with this one*



Oh and IF he was unable to regenerate then what was the point of the talk on malachor..

That being said, use some thought and in sabers Sion impales himself like Vader did with the Maul fight and to more or less of the same effect but lives without any meaningful harm.

lol lets go there gameplay graphics only SHOW sion in basic stance and only using simple strokes ie he sucks at sabers if we do it like that

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
ANH Vader never SHOWED these abilities AT THAT TIME, IN THAT MOVIE(see I can be a KMC stubborn tight ass too) With what we see him do(totally disregarding everything else because it would hurt my arguement...*Tangible God*) in THAT SPECIFIC MOVIE AND ONLY THE MOVIE COUNTS AS TRUE CANON*guess who imma make fun with this one*



Oh and IF he was unable to regenerate then what was the point of the talk on malachor..

That being said, use some thought and in sabers Sion impales himself like Vader did with the Maul fight and to more or less of the same effect but lives without any meaningful harm.

LOL by your logic mace windu is a shit ass duelist because his duel with palpatine in ROTS was so clunky(and that was the only time we ever saw him engage in a duel, hell even luke and vader were moving faster thanhim in ROTJ.

This "movie is true canon = vader is weak ass shit and slow" bullshit excuse is getting extremely old.

Just because he didn't do them in ANH does not mean he can't, hell we have never seen nihilus trying to cut his opponent off the force admist a duel, but does it mean he can't?

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
LOL by your logic mace windu is a shit ass duelist because his duel with palpatine in ROTS was so clunky(and that was the only time we ever saw him engage in a duel, hell even luke and vader were moving faster thanhim in ROTJ.

This "movie is true canon = vader is weak ass shit and slow" bullshit excuse is getting extremely old.

Just because he didn't do them in ANH does not mean he can't, hell we have never seen nihilus trying to cut his opponent off the force admist a duel, but does it mean he can't? In case you didn't quite catch my drift, I was being a smartass and making of certain other members(you know the ones) nut since I must spell this out I'm guessing explaining things to you would far too time consuming to allow for the actual debate. In light of this, I'm not going to bother explaining obvious things to you. Instead, when I post sarcastic remarks intertwined with my actual opinion, your opinion about them will go unrecognized by me. So don't bother to even reply if you suspect any sarcasm at all since you wouldn't get what exactly is sarcastic in the post.





Oh, and I love how people's opinion changes like a politician's any time the majority or senority comes to a different conclusion or when some important new reference comes along. Although I understand that these new references give more insight and information; whether they be games, movies, books,etc, some consistency would be nice.

Anyone should've been able to clearly see that Serpent's previous comment about ANH Vader being slow and weak was sarcasm. This picking on him for every little thing is getting a bit overblown. The "(see I can be a KMC stubborn tight ass too)" and "totally disregarding everything else because it would hurt my arguement" should've been self explanatory.

Without further adieu:

1. Sabers - Sion, 7/10.
2. Force - Sion, 6/10.
3. All-Out - Sion, 7/10.

In sabers only, Vader is clearly the better duelist. However, Sion is no slouch and will be able to take far more strikes than Vader can.

In Force only, Sion may have Force Lightning. What we know he does have, is Force Sever. And while Vader is powerful, we don't know if his mechanical body would be able to allow him to defend against it in time. Plus, unless Vader drops a Star Destroyer on Sion, what is his TK really going to do? Ditto with Force Choke.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Anyone should've been able to clearly see that Serpent's previous comment about ANH Vader being slow and weak was sarcasm. This picking on him for every little thing is getting a bit overblown. The "(see I can be a KMC stubborn tight ass too)" and "totally disregarding everything else because it would hurt my arguement" should've been self explanatory.

Without further adieu:

1. Sabers - Sion, 7/10.
2. Force - Sion, 6/10.
3. All-Out - Sion, 7/10.

In sabers only, Vader is clearly the better duelist. However, Sion is no slouch and will be able to take far more strikes than Vader can.

In Force only, Sion may have Force Lightning. What we know he does have, is Force Sever. And while Vader is powerful, we don't know if his mechanical body would be able to allow him to defend against it in time. Plus, unless Vader drops a Star Destroyer on Sion, what is his TK really going to do? Ditto with Force Choke. You're standing up for me? Cool! Gideon isn't the only one that is willing to defend a jackass.

Oh...Gideon is standing up for you, too?

*quits*

Originally posted by Enyalus
Oh...Gideon is standing up for you, too?

*quits*













Once, But I can't find the damn thread.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Once, But I can't find the damn thread. Found the page

Originally posted by Enyalus
Anyone should've been able to clearly see that Serpent's previous comment about ANH Vader being slow and weak was sarcasm. This picking on him for every little thing is getting a bit overblown. The "(see I can be a KMC stubborn tight ass too)" and "totally disregarding everything else because it would hurt my arguement" should've been self explanatory.

Without further adieu:

1. Sabers - Sion, 7/10.
2. Force - Sion, 6/10.
3. All-Out - Sion, 7/10.

In sabers only, Vader is clearly the better duelist. However, Sion is no slouch and will be able to take far more strikes than Vader can.

In Force only, Sion may have Force Lightning. What we know he does have, is Force Sever. And while Vader is powerful, we don't know if his mechanical body would be able to allow him to defend against it in time. Plus, unless Vader drops a Star Destroyer on Sion, what is his TK really going to do? Ditto with Force Choke. Just out of curiousity, where are you pulling your stats on Sion's saber skills? You said Vader is better, but because Sion isn't a slouch, he'd win? Pardon me, but that is absoluely terrible logic.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Just out of curiousity, where are you pulling your stats on Sion's saber skills? You said Vader is better, but because Sion isn't a slouch, he'd win? Pardon me, but that is absoluely terrible logic. Dude, Sion can take several direct lightsaber blows... I know people don't like the Nigh-Invincibility that makes like Mr.Immortal in marvel but still recognize this and use some sense. Pure logic isn't what counts Logic/Reason/Common Sense...

In pure logic, We are a higher evolved and more dangerous predator than lions,tigers, and bears so we should (According to your pure logic) be able to take on all three at the same time bare-handed and win.

Common Sense lets you in on the secret that any one of those could kill you easily.


I'll stick with common sense.

The assumption that Vader is somehow Sion's superior in the Force is completely absurd. We've seen a number of high end Force Users in the saga and Vader isn't in any shape or form among their number in having demonstrated anything quite unremarkable whatsoever. In being able to use the Force to cheat death, Sion succeeded where numerous other Force Users (including the likes of Sidious) failed. The ability is completely unprecedented, and indicative of truly extraordinary ability. That he's otherwise quite obscure isn't a reason to assume that Vader, who again, never truly displayed anything particularly impressive in his entire career, was the superior Force User. Sure, he performed a bunch of low end feats, outclassed a bunch of low end Force Users, but Sion was essentially one of those anomalous beings in the history of the Galaxy, and Vader's relatively average in comparison.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Just out of curiousity, where are you pulling your stats on Sion's saber skills? You said Vader is better, but because Sion isn't a slouch, he'd win? Pardon me, but that is absoluely terrible logic.

Terrible logic, how? I acknowleged Vader as being superior. That being said, if Sion was struck 10 times, and Vader 5 - who do think is going to survive?

I doubt Vader even outclasses him 2:1 so that's moot.

Originally posted by Taven
The assumption that Vader is somehow Sion's superior in the Force is completely absurd. We've seen a number of high end Force Users in the saga and Vader isn't in any shape or form among their number in having demonstrated anything quite unremarkable whatsoever. In being able to use the Force to cheat death, Sion succeeded where numerous other Force Users (including the likes of Sidious) failed. The ability is completely unprecedented, and indicative of truly extraordinary ability. That he's otherwise quite obscure isn't a reason to assume that Vader, who again, never truly displayed anything particularly impressive in his entire career, was the superior Force User. Sure, he performed a bunch of low end feats, outclassed a bunch of low end Force Users, but Sion was essentially one of those anomalous beings in the history of the Galaxy, and Vader's relatively average in comparison. So because Sidious couldn't cheat death... Sion is more powerful than him in the Force?

He showed a remarkable talent in his ability to hold his body together, but profiencey in one school does not translate to profiency in every school.

Originally posted by Taven
The assumption that Vader is somehow Sion's superior in the Force is completely absurd. We've seen a number of high end Force Users in the saga and Vader isn't in any shape or form among their number in having demonstrated anything quite unremarkable whatsoever. In being able to use the Force to cheat death, Sion succeeded where numerous other Force Users (including the likes of Sidious) failed. The ability is completely unprecedented, and indicative of truly extraordinary ability. That he's otherwise quite obscure isn't a reason to assume that Vader, who again, never truly displayed anything particularly impressive in his entire career, was the superior Force User. Sure, he performed a bunch of low end feats, outclassed a bunch of low end Force Users, but Sion was essentially one of those anomalous beings in the history of the Galaxy, and Vader's relatively average in comparison. The recent posters seem to assume raw power/raw potential power translates into functional power.


He has done impressive stuff like the choking Officers miles(I believe its more about perception but whatever).



And they seem to ignore Kreia because of a few lies here and there.



Sion is more or less immortal.

Originally posted by Tangible God
So because Sidious couldn't cheat death... Sion is more powerful than him in the Force?

He showed a remarkable talent in his ability to hold his body together, but profiencey in one school does not translate to profiency in every school. 1.Knowledge is true power.

2.Your a stubborn anti-kotor ******* that can't accept reality.

3.Palpatine was incapable of self-resurrection(he needed clone bodies)

4.He couldn't handle his own power(body started to deteriorate to a similar weakening effect as Nihilus consuming himself)

5.Sion was in perfect control of his body.

6.Sion was defeated in/with Dun Moch or the reverse of Dun Moch, no physical victory was possible.

7.Dooku, Palpatine, or any skilled and knowledgable user has a chance, but again a pure physical victory is impossible.

8.I suspect(due your stagnant and repetitive nature of arguing, inability to recognize when your wrong,the necessity to spell out obvious things to you over and over again, and ignorant stubborness) you are a Republican and by proxy, you are comparable to Bush when you speak.



Even when I first started I was better than that kind of inept and redundant way of debating.


I dicked around WAY too much and rarely tried to make sense, but atleast I'm man enough to admit it.

And now I shall abuse the smileys.

boxingcheerscokeevilfish

Originally posted by Tangible God
So because Sidious couldn't cheat death... Sion is more powerful than him in the Force?

Obviously there is natural proficiency with certain techniques to take into account, but generally, yes, that would be the most logical judgement to make. To truly substantiate the evidence we deal in, you need to form comparisons. That we have concrete evidence through such comparisons that Sion's invincibility truly was unique to him among many powerful Force users, including the one in question (Sidious), would suggest that his ability in the Force truly was remarkable, even among such company. So yes, I would have no problem concluding that Sion is logically the more impressive of the two. It's certainly more logical than claiming that Sidious is the stronger of the two because he has displayed in multiple techniques, whereas Sion has only ever displayed an aptitude for one.



It generally does where the Force is concerned. Every single application in the Force is built up on the User's strength in the Force, and their control over it. An aptitude for one application in the Force acts as perfect testament for what essentially allowed such a level of aptitude in the first place: the mentioned strength in the Force and control over it. Sion's ability to cheat death speaks wonders for his raw power and mastery of the Force, which are essentially the building blocks of any and and every power that the Force has to offer, and unless we have sufficient evidence that Sion was unimaginably untalented in any other area of the Force, we can conclude that his overall level of ability in it was astronomical.

Sion was utterly subservient to both Nihilus and Traya. That he was able to keep his body together with the Dark Side is impressive, but not uniform. Look at Maw, one of the Dark Side adepts, who was able to keep himself alived after he'd been sliced in half.
Sion was defeated more than once and demonstrated no alarming ability with the Dark Side in any other area. He's not impressive to people like Palpatine, Bane or Kun by far.

And of course you think Sion is more impressive, Nebaris. Anything to bash the PT, hm?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sion was utterly subservient to both Nihilus and Traya. That he was able to keep his body together with the Dark Side is impressive, but not uniform. Look at Maw, one of the Dark Side adepts, who was able to keep himself alived after he'd been sliced in half.
Sion was defeated more than once and demonstrated no alarming ability with the Dark Side in any other area. He's not impressive to people like Palpatine, Bane or Kun by far.

And of course you think Sion is more impressive, Nebaris. Anything to bash the PT, hm? To Nihilus,yes, to Traya... Dude theres this cut-scene...


About Maw,He kept himself alive but could ressurect himself through the technique that Sion used. He was still killable.

Oh, Neb, I thought that 'SPECIALIZATION < VERSATILITY!!!', no? So when it applies to Sion- who only displayed an aptitude for a technique- he is automatically stronger than Sidious, who, displayed a far greater grasp, mastery, and level of skill in the force than Sion? Well, what a realization.

Palpatine could kill him by making him feel obsolete, out of date, or something like that.

Dun Moch and making someone doubt themselves are weapons in their own right.

On the whole "staving off death" topic: Palpatine pretty much fails. It's pathetic. I mean, Naga Sadow lives for well over seven hundred years before being murdered by Nadd. Marka Ragnos had been ruler for over a century as of his death, and I won't speculate on his age at ascension. Lord Simus, who Ragnos decapitated, survived in a jar-thing as a head, and the mysterious and now weak Andeddu managed to survive even in a rotting corpse of a body. The latter, of course, was killed by one of the newest Dark Lord's lieutenants.

Sion is not unique in that regard, although his physical functionality is impressive.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
1. Sion impales himself like Vader did and sabers the life support
2.Vader strangles him and kills him and then starts to walk away, Sion resurrects self, Jumps and grabs Vader and punches life support until he dies.
3.Again Sion,"I can die a hundred times, Exile, and each time I shall rise, as strong as before." What part of Invincible do you stubborn asses not understand."As long as the dark side flows through the cracks of my flesh, I cannot be killed." "His flesh is cracked and scarred, and I'm registering several thousand fractures in his skeleton, as if each bone was splintered repeatedly, and then put back together. Judging from the scar tissue, these wounds took place before his death. If so, he must have been in constant pain." - Harbinger medical officer
There is no proof he is invincible on places not strong in the darkside. He says, "As long as the dark places of this world flow through the cracks of my flesh, I cannot be killed." Also, after the Kreia tells Exile to flee from Sion, Kreia says, "There will be another time. But it is not now, not here, while Korriban runs through him."

Wasn't HK talking about jedi killing in general?




Arnold, when did Vader almost choke Marek?

Don't forget Nihilus's whole 'consciousness in his armor' thing.

As far as Sith species go, they used alchemy to preserve and extend their lives. Sadow put himself in suspended animated, I think. Heck, Arden Lyn when hit by Morichro was frozen in suspended animation for 25,000 YEARS...

Cheating death is really growing less and less exclusive. Andeddu was supposed to be physically decaying when he was still Dark Lord, too

Originally posted by Faunus
On the whole "staving off death" topic: Palpatine pretty much fails. It's pathetic. I mean, Naga Sadow lives for well over seven hundred years before being murdered by Nadd. Marka Ragnos had been ruler for over a century as of his death, and I won't speculate on his age at ascension. Lord Simus, who Ragnos decapitated, survived in a jar-thing as a head, and the mysterious and now weak Andeddu managed to survive even in a rotting corpse of a body. The latter, of course, was killed by one of the newest Dark Lord's lieutenants.

Sion is not unique in that regard, although his physical functionality is impressive.

Depends on how you look at it. As Publius himself says, Lord Simus survives as a skull. Palpatine survives complete disintegration. And unlike Lords Kun and Ragnos, his spirit was not anchored to a specific artifact or location.

Originally posted by Gideon
Depends on how you look at it. As Publius himself says, Lord Simus survives as a skull. Palpatine survives complete disintegration. And unlike Lords Kun and Ragnos, his spirit was not anchored to a specific artifact or location.And yet Palpatine, in the end, is still doomed. Unless I'm mistaken, due to tampering, his clone bodies keep deteriorating at even greater rates, until he is forced to go after the Skywalker/Solo child in a desperate attempt to stay alive. Simus, Sadow, and Sion, to my knowledge, needed no such sustenance.

Originally posted by Faunus
And yet Palpatine, in the end, is still doomed.

And they aren't?



Due to tampering by Carnor Jax; not any fallibility on the Emperor's part. Because those clones aren't a natural part of life, they cannot handle the intense destruction wrought by Palpatine's connection to the dark side of the Force.



Sion was using his hate and strong places of the dark side to hold himself together. His statement to the Exile during their duel says that as long as Korriban's energies feed him, he cannot die, correct? Simus, too, was killed, as was Sadow.

Marka Ragnos, who died, was forced to tether his spirit to a specific place. Palpatine's spirit was without limitation.

Originally posted by Gideon
Depends on how you look at it. As Publius himself says, Lord Simus survives as a skull. Palpatine survives complete disintegration. And unlike Lords Kun and Ragnos, his spirit was not anchored to a specific artifact or location.

I...think you're incorrect about Ragnos, IIRC. His resting place was Korriban, yet he went to Cinnagar to proclaim Kun Dark Lord of the Sith.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Don't forget Nihilus's whole 'consciousness in his armor' thing.

As far as Sith species go, they used alchemy to preserve and extend their lives. Sadow put himself in suspended animated, I think. Heck, Arden Lyn when hit by Morichro was frozen in suspended animation for 25,000 YEARS...

Cheating death is really growing less and less exclusive. Andeddu was supposed to be physically decaying when he was still Dark Lord, too Arden Lyn had no control over it... but it is still the most impressive.

@Gideon

*I'm seeking a honest opinion*


What do you think of the stuff I said about Tangible in this thread?

Did I own, was I right, Or did I do a shitness-make-a-fool out of myself.

Besides your Mr. Immortal example...that guy's only mutant power is immortality, meaning he gets severly owned by just about everyone else. At least Sion has some talent.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Besides your Mr. Immortal example...that guy's only mutant power is immortality, meaning he gets severly owned by just about everyone else. At least Sion has some talent. Well he suicide bomb the hell out things... a lot.

Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy shows that Ragnos is anchored to his tomb on Korriban. Does that mean that he can't occasionally appear via the Force in a vision or temporary illusion to others? No. But he is grounded on Korriban.

He reached out and branded Exar Kun's forehead with the same symbol Naga Sadow used when he usurped the title of Dark Lord of the Sith...

Reminding me day after day why ignoring you was such a great idea. Let me reiterate: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy confirms that Ragnos is trapped inside his tomb. He can't haul his intangible ass out for any galactic joyride any time he wants. Can someone of such power and knowledge likely find means to appear to others? Sure. It wouldn't surprise me if that is how he collected his disciples.

Forgive my ignorance, but don't the comics have higher canonicity than a video game?

Furthermore, appearing to someone and leaving a physical mark are two entirely separate things. The former, if an illusion as you suggest, shouldn't be able to leave physical evidence behind.

No. They're both C-canon.

Ah. I defer then. And apologize.

They seemingly contradict one another.

Plz answer my question

While i praise your intelligence and remarkable debating skills, i kind of disagree with somethings you just typed out here.
Originally posted by Enyalus


Without further adieu:

1. Sabers - Sion, 7/10.
2. Force - Sion, 6/10.
3. All-Out - Sion, 7/10.

In sabers only, Vader is clearly the better duelist. However, Sion is no slouch and will be able to take far more strikes than Vader can.

In Force only, Sion may have Force Lightning. What we know he does have, is Force Sever. And while Vader is powerful, we don't know if his mechanical body would be able to allow him to defend against it in time. Plus, unless Vader drops a Star Destroyer on Sion, what is his TK really going to do? Ditto with Force Choke. Whoa whoa, how exactly is sion the better duelist when we know absolute shit about his dueling skills?

And how exactly is sion "superior" to vader in the force considering that you gave sion a "win" in both the force an all out fight?

Oh and what is vaders tk going to do? Have you read TFU? He manages to give marek an ass beating with TK a few times before getting beaten, he casually chokes the shit out of rahm kota, a very skilled jedi that gave marek a beating and someone that destroyed an entire facility with a single force attack or the fact that in the bounty hunter wars/i], he managed to choke the shit out of xizor thousands of miles away via a hologram, how about instantly snapping the neck of a jedi known as kento with relative ease?

If that doesn't work i don't see why vader wouldn't collapse a massive structure to pin sion considering that in one of the trailers, vader collapses a massive structure on kashykk(sp?).

Oh and where exactly did sion demonstrate sever force?

In my analysis I said that Vader is the more skilled duelist. However, I gave Sion the majority and explained that decision to TG earlier in this thread, as well.

The Sith Triumvirate were quite a powerful group, and Sion was the leader of the Sith Assassins. His physical skills had to be fairly impressive. Thus giving him a narrow majority. If you were to ask me, "who would land more lightsaber strikes?" I'd answer Vader unequivocally.



Vader can use his TK to toss Sion around like a ragdoll all he wants (assuming that he even can). What's it going to do to Sion? All of his bones have already been broken. It's not going to kill Sion. It's just going to cause him some pain, which is going to make him stronger. Same thing with Force Choke. I doubt he breathes. A broken neck, Force Choke, big deal. It's not going to matter.



Well, I did say "unless he drops a Star Destroyer" on him. We had the same idea there, looks like.



My bad, it's Force Drain. *nod*

Originally posted by Enyalus
In my analysis I said that Vader is the more skilled duelist. However, I gave Sion the majority and explained that decision to TG earlier in this thread, as well.
Acknowledged.
Originally posted by Enyalus

The Sith Triumvirate were quite a powerful group, and Sion was the leader of the Sith Assassins. His physical skills had to be fairly impressive. Thus giving him a narrow majority. If you were to ask me, "who would land more lightsaber strikes?" I'd answer Vader unequivocally. Does it equate to him being the superior duelist? No, but anyways this does not matter as you made it clear earlier.


Again, no where has it shown that sion actually still lives after being struck by a lightsaber, incase you don't know, a lightsaber generates enough heat and power to dissintegrate flesh so how exactly would sion be able to tank against that let alone use his will to hold something(his dissintigrated flesh) that isn't there any more?

Originally posted by Enyalus

Vader can use his TK to toss Sion around like a ragdoll all he wants (assuming that he even can). What's it going to do to Sion? All of his bones have already been broken. It's not going to kill Sion. It's just going to cause him some pain, which is going to make him stronger. Same thing with Force Choke. I doubt he breathes. A broken neck, Force Choke, big deal. It's not going to matter. So he is practically "immortal" or "invincible" is it? Then clearly explain how he was "struck down time and again" on a dark side world by the exile despite being "invincible"

Whats it going to do to sion? How about slamming him against a sharp object that would practically split his body apart? He has never been shown to be strong enough to hold his body in such a way that it would prevent his body from being ripped apart by something hard.

Again where was it shown that force attacks didn't kill him? The extent of the battle between him and the exile is unknown, all we have is gameplay mechanics. How do we know that the exile actually tried using TK on a massive scale to bring him down?

Oh and DO prove that he doesn't breathe.


I can't really formulate a proper argument at the moment(busy as f*ck) but i'll be back later.

Hey now, make up your mind.

Ring a bell? Can't have it both ways. Either he wasn't struck down numerous times and he's invincible, or he was and he can survive a lightsaber strike.

Also, yes, I'm aware - if you were to ignite a lightsaber and slowly slice in and up the body, it's going to disintegrate what it touches. But, that's not how lightsaber duels go, obviously. They're quick slashes and thrusts. Vader isn't going to hit him, leave it in there and slowly move it around to destroy the tissue in the immediate area. He's going to cut his hand off, say, then Sion is going to pull it right back to his body using the Force and keep fighting.



Invincible, no. Immortal, yes. The Jedi Exile could not kill him. She had to convince him to die.



Pretty sure that can't actually be done. But, think about it: his bones were literally crushed into tiny pieces - his body was made up of pieces of flesh. It's safe to assume that his lungs were either crushed or sliced apart. His ribcage being broken would alone puncture the lungs and ensure that breathing was an impossibility.

Originally posted by Enyalus


Hey now, make up your mind.

Ring a bell? Can't have it both ways. Either he wasn't struck down numerous times and he's invincible, or he was and he can survive a lightsaber strike.

Also, yes, I'm aware - if you were to ignite a lightsaber and slowly slice in and up the body, it's going to disintegrate what it touches. But, that's not how lightsaber duels go, obviously. They're quick slashes and thrusts. Vader isn't going to hit him, leave it in there and slowly move it around to destroy the tissue in the immediate area. He's going to cut his hand off, say, then Sion is going to pull it right back to his body using the Force and keep fighting.



Invincible, no. Immortal, yes. The Jedi Exile could not kill him. She had to convince him to die.



Pretty sure that can't actually be done. But, think about it: his bones were literally crushed into tiny pieces - his body was made up of pieces of flesh. It's safe to assume that his lungs were either crushed or sliced apart. His ribcage being broken would alone puncture the lungs and ensure that breathing was an impossibility. Sion's not invincible, immortal perhaps, but not invincible. It's a matter of patience on Vader's part. A lightsaber, no matter how it's thrusted, slashed or swung, will, when it makes contact with flesh, reduce it to energy and carbon. Unless Sion is actually God in disguise, he's not gonna be able to regrow flesh (which composes numerous elements) from nothing but microscopic ash particles. In fact, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that Sion can regrow flesh.

Oh and if he could regrow flesh, then bones, skin, and the brain need oxygen, so he'd have to breathe for that... which means use of the lungs.

Enyalus: To be exact, the Sith amulets pretty much summoned Ragnos, but mostly, he's stuck to Korriban

WTF, man?



If someone were to put Jango's head back ontop of his body, and he were alive, he'd be able to move fine. If someone were able to reattach Maul's torso to his lower body, his movement would be fine. The same can be said about, say, Anakin's arm. Have you ever heard someone in SW using the phrase "he was struck down" in reference to them being killed with the Force? I haven't. It's always referring to being killed with a lightsaber. "He was struck down repeatedly" would indicate that he's been hit with a lightsaber numerous times and has survived.

Also, I never said he could regrow flesh or even insinuate it...but, Jedi can. It's called Force Heal. I'm just sayin'...



Look at his skin color. The skin is clearly dead and disgusting looking.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Okay, you're not quite understanding something that's offered in Physics 101. If there's nothing left to attach, it can't be reattached! If there is no more flesh to reattach, Sion can't reattach it!

I can imagine Boba crying his eyes out and attempting to put his father's head back onto his body, then crying even more when he realizes that it doesn't work like that. There's a complex system of nerves and blood vessels to connect, nevermind mending the skin. Take into account the damage to his brain...

And what the hell are you talking about? What this "struck down" stuff? Why are you talking about this?

Well I'm back home but I am too tired to argue at this moment so enyalus, the victory is yours.

I spent nearly a page arguing Sion's Immortality...

TG you need consistency.

I thought that lightsabers only made very tiny cuts?

Originally posted by Tangible God
Okay, you're not quite understanding something that's offered in Physics 101. If there's nothing left to attach, it can't be reattached! If there is no more flesh to reattach, Sion can't reattach it!

Shh, I'm taking Physics 1020 now. Don't spoil it for me. But anyway, what I think you aren't getting is that it isn't going to be a perfect reattachment. Look at Sion's skin. Every piece that fits against another piece is blackened - indicating, presumably, a lightsaber strike. Corran allowed Ganner to burn his arm with a lightsaber during their ordeal on Bimmiel (sp?). It's still there, and presumably fine. He can still function.



Doesn't matter when you're using the Force to hold yourself together. Does a lightsaber have nerves and blood to make it move? Nonetheless, when a Jedi telekinetically summons his lightsaber, it moves just fine, doesn't it? Same theory here. I imagine Sion moves his own body much like a puppetmaster would move a puppet - except using the Force to do it.



Schwarzy brought it up. I can't say I know the quote off-hand.

Originally posted by Enyalus


Shh, I'm taking Physics 1020 now. Don't spoil it for me. But anyway, what I think you aren't getting is that it isn't going to be a perfect reattachment. Look at Sion's skin. Every piece that fits against another piece is blackened - indicating, presumably, a lightsaber strike. Corran allowed Ganner to burn his arm with a lightsaber during their ordeal on Bimmiel (sp?). It's still there, and presumably fine. He can still function.



Doesn't matter when you're using the Force to hold yourself together. Does a lightsaber have nerves and blood to make it move? Nonetheless, when a Jedi telekinetically summons his lightsaber, it moves just fine, doesn't it? Same theory here. I imagine Sion moves his own body much like a puppetmaster would move a puppet - except using the Force to do it.



Schwarzy brought it up. I can't say I know the quote off-hand. Hey, don't even bother trying to explain this or argue with him about it. I already did.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Well I'm back home but I am too tired to argue at this moment so enyalus, the victory is yours. HEY I MADE THE EXACT SAME ARGUEMENT EARLIER OR DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I SAID, WHAT, IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR RECOGNITION WHEN I WIN OR ATLEAST CONTIBUTE A LOT. CAN'T ANY OF YOU DICKHEADS BOTHER TO ACKNOWLEDGE MY POST(NOW THEY CONTRIBUTE...ALOT) OR ARE YOU JUST THAT DAMN STUCK UP!? I BASICALLY WON THIS DEBATE ALREADY AND YOU CAN'T GET OVER IT. F-U-C-K ALL OF YOU A-S-S-H-O-L-E-S AND TO HELL WITH TNAGIBLE GOS SINCE YOU CAN'T GET OVER SION BEING PHYSICAL UNBEATABLE!

I take it everyone is just going to ignore my other post in this thread.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
I take it everyone is just going to ignore my other post in this thread. What page was it on?

halfway down page 2

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
HEY I MADE THE EXACT SAME ARGUEMENT EARLIER OR DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I SAID, WHAT, IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR RECOGNITION WHEN I WIN OR ATLEAST CONTIBUTE A LOT. CAN'T ANY OF YOU DICKHEADS BOTHER TO ACKNOWLEDGE MY POST(NOW THEY CONTRIBUTE...ALOT) OR ARE YOU JUST THAT DAMN STUCK UP!? I BASICALLY WON THIS DEBATE ALREADY AND YOU CAN'T GET OVER IT. F-U-C-K ALL OF YOU A-S-S-H-O-L-E-S AND TO HELL WITH TNAGIBLE GOS SINCE YOU CAN'T GET OVER SION BEING PHYSICAL UNBEATABLE! What the f*ck is your problem? Thats it, i'm reporting you and i'll make sure you get banned this time.


Hell if what you said was true then i guess sion >>>> all of star wars, including luke and DARTH SIDIOUS.

Originally posted by Enyalus


Shh, I'm taking Physics 1020 now. Don't spoil it for me. But anyway, what I think you aren't getting is that it isn't going to be a perfect reattachment. Look at Sion's skin. Every piece that fits against another piece is blackened - indicating, presumably, a lightsaber strike. Corran allowed Ganner to burn his arm with a lightsaber during their ordeal on Bimmiel (sp?). It's still there, and presumably fine. He can still function.



Doesn't matter when you're using the Force to hold yourself together. Does a lightsaber have nerves and blood to make it move? Nonetheless, when a Jedi telekinetically summons his lightsaber, it moves just fine, doesn't it? Same theory here. I imagine Sion moves his own body much like a puppetmaster would move a puppet - except using the Force to do it. Kay, I don't know how many times I've said this now:

I know perfectly well what Sion can do. It's pretty much all he's had going for him. But he can not... I repeat... can not reattach something that no longer exists. Understand? If all the flesh and bones of his arm no longer exist, he can't reattach it.

In terms of a saber fight against Vader, I feel that Vader will get the best of Sion a couple times before realizing what he can do. And from my understanding, it takes at least several seconds for Sion to reattach himself. Once Vader's notices his secret (could be right away, given how much Sion likes to mention it), I feel confident saying Vader will continue to hack away at Sion's body until there's not enough matter left for him to be a threat.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
HEY I MADE THE EXACT SAME ARGUEMENT EARLIER OR DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I SAID, WHAT, IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR RECOGNITION WHEN I WIN OR ATLEAST CONTIBUTE A LOT. CAN'T ANY OF YOU DICKHEADS BOTHER TO ACKNOWLEDGE MY POST(NOW THEY CONTRIBUTE...ALOT) OR ARE YOU JUST THAT DAMN STUCK UP!? I BASICALLY WON THIS DEBATE ALREADY AND YOU CAN'T GET OVER IT. F-U-C-K ALL OF YOU A-S-S-H-O-L-E-S AND TO HELL WITH TNAGIBLE GOS SINCE YOU CAN'T GET OVER SION BEING PHYSICAL UNBEATABLE! As for you, pissant... reported. I ignore your posts now, but this one caught my eye.

That's a final warning to you, Darkserpent, before a ban.