ROTS Anakin Vs ROTS Obi-Wan (Rematch)

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laser7455
This time it takes place in Palpatine's office.

1.Saber
2.Force
3.All out

Enyalus
1. Sabers - Anakin, 8/10.
2. Force - Anakin, 6/10.
3. All-Out - Anakin, 8/10.

Tangible God
Originally posted by laser7455
This time it takes place in Palpatine's office.

1.Saber
2.Force
3.All out So, same fight, different place? No lava?

1. Anakin.
2. Anakin.
3. Anakin.

Lava: Anakin's one true weakness. His Achille's heel, if you will.

Enyalus
Funny that Luke doesn't share it (bet Anakin wishes he knew how to walk on lava, too).

truejedi
this is stupid. we have this thread 6 times over, and it has been discussed for hundreds of pages and ended up Obi-Wan Kenobi every time.
What is the point of this thread?

Tangible God
Originally posted by truejedi
this is stupid. we have this thread 6 times over, and it has been discussed for hundreds of pages and ended up Obi-Wan Kenobi every time.
What is the point of this thread? We don`t all like to go looking for the old ones. And it`s still interesting to see how new members, and old ones with new facts, make of a situation.

By the by, I`ve never read any of the Anakin vs Obi Rematch`s. Why is Kenobi always the winner?

truejedi
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=480991&pagenumber=1

i was wrong about how lopsidedly it was decided, but i think the consensus at the end of this thread did actually agree with me.

most of the voting went up early in this one, most of my arguments for Obi-wan were posted in between page 3 and 4 i think.... it died off, because no one else posted a good reason that anakin should win beside's reasons that were directly contradicted in the novelization. According to the novel, (as i posted on like page 3) Obi-wan controlled the entire fight. Even when he was getting kicked down a hallway, according to the book, it was exactly what he was trying to do. Now when you take that into account, and figure that exactly what anakin was trying to do was kill obi-wan as quickly as possible, you have anakin failing for a much longer time, as well as ultimately, while according to the novel, obi-wan was perfectly in control.

I think it was the student-master thing that screwed anakin: the whole: i'll teach you everything you know, but not everything i know sort of advantage for obi-wan in combat.

Faunus
Not to mention that Obi-Wan -- who at that point held both lightsabers -- actually hesitated to kill an unarmed Anakin. Yeah, the novel makes it clear what was going on.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Faunus
Not to mention that Obi-Wan -- who at that point held both lightsabers -- actually hesitated to kill an unarmed Anakin. Yeah, the novel makes it clear what was going on.
yeah itz still aclip of obi holding ani's saber in the movie: bad cut right there

one above you
anakin
anakin
anakin.

Tangible God
Someone's biased.

Janus Marius
Obi-Wan. Anakin runs at him, acting emo, and Obi-Wan sidesteps, letting the idiot go over the edge.

Quite frankly, they both did equally well in confined spaces during the final battle in the movie, so I'm not so sure where people are concluding that Anakin will somehow do better. Part of Anakin's ability to fight so well came from plot-induced anger and rage, and partly because Obi-Wan wasn't trying to off him exactly. When you have the virtual master of defensive fighting squaring off against someone who would headbutt a stop sign if it offended him, the conclusion is logical - either Anakin gets lucky and strongarms Obi-wan, or he wears out and makes a fatal mistake.

truejedi
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Obi-Wan. Anakin runs at him, acting emo, and Obi-Wan sidesteps, letting the idiot go over the edge.

Quite frankly, they both did equally well in confined spaces during the final battle in the movie, so I'm not so sure where people are concluding that Anakin will somehow do better. Part of Anakin's ability to fight so well came from plot-induced anger and rage, and partly because Obi-Wan wasn't trying to off him exactly. When you have the virtual master of defensive fighting squaring off against someone who would headbutt a stop sign if it offended him, the conclusion is logical - either Anakin gets lucky and strongarms Obi-wan, or he wears out and makes a fatal mistake.

i think everyone pretty much did come to that conclusion. The novelization provides enough insight into the fight to make a very strong case for Obi-wan's dominance in their fight.

Gideon
According to the Ultimate Visual Guide, when Obi-Wan lets go of his attachment to Anakin, "the battle turns for the Jedi." It's heavily implied from newer sources that Obi-Wan was, in fact, restraining himself.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Gideon
According to the Ultimate Visual Guide, when Obi-Wan lets go of his attachment to Anakin, "the battle turns for the Jedi." It's heavily implied from newer sources that Obi-Wan was, in fact, restraining himself.

Which makes little sense if you think about Gillard's ranking of Anakin and then Pre-Suit Vader's saber abilities. Then take into account Anakin's dismantling of Dooku and the fact that Obi-Wan was virtually nothing in comparison.

More Star Wars contradictions. Who've guessed?

Gideon
Not really, no. Anakin was between "worlds" that time, trapped in transition from Jedi to Sith, and was vulnerable (according to RoDV). And unlike Dooku, Obi-Wan has an unimaginable amount of knowledge about Anakin and how he fights.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Gideon
Not really, no. Anakin was between "worlds" that time, trapped in transition from Jedi to Sith, and was vulnerable (according to RoDV).

Yeah, but then you have the scene on Mustafar when he's so deeply immersed in the Dark Side that his eyes become yellow and red. And prior to that him being able to outright destroy Cin Drallig one-handed while distracted with his padawan.

No doubt Anakin's psychological condition was bad during his duel with Obi-Wan, but for it to drop one's skill/talent by that much is astounding. Even as early as AOTC we're given the impression that Anakin is a better duelist than his master.

NonSensi-Klown
He probably is much more "skilled", I.E., ANoon Bondaras technical uberness skilled, but he's still an emotional idiot.

Janus Marius
An emotional idiot and not one for playing smart. Obi-Wan capitalized on Anakin's foolishness to conclude the battle, and since his fighting philosophy is simply to defend and evade until an opportunity presents itself, he's perhaps the best person for fighting Anakin in the SW universe. Having intimate knowledge of his fighting style helps a great deal as well.

Enyalus
In the novelization, Anakin has an opportunity to kill Obi-Wan early in their duel. Obi-Wan is completely at his mercy with his blade poised to strike - when Obi-Wan uses the Force to reverse the polarity in Anakin's durasteel hand, thus making him drop his lightsaber.

In a strict sabers duel, Obi-Wan isn't going to have that ability.

Tangible God
Originally posted by Enyalus
In the novelization, Anakin has an opportunity to kill Obi-Wan early in their duel. Obi-Wan is completely at his mercy with his blade poised to strike - when Obi-Wan uses the Force to reverse the polarity in Anakin's durasteel hand, thus making him drop his lightsaber.

In a strict sabers duel, Obi-Wan isn't going to have that ability. Yes, but as a rematch without the Force would not be a blow by blow recreation...

Enyalus
Originally posted by Tangible God
Yes, but as a rematch without the Force would not be a blow by blow recreation...

Prove it. cool

Jbill311
Originally posted by Enyalus
Prove it. cool

W/O the Force:

"I'm going to air high five you now!" says anakin, relying on his superior midichlorian count to overpower Kenobi
*slashes skywalkers arm/legs off.* "power of the force my friend"

truejedi
Originally posted by Enyalus
Prove it. cool
no... you prove that it would be! cool

( i just love this kind of thing!)
and if it was....
(at one point in the movie (> canon than the novelization) obi-wan is going to kill Anakin until anakin calls his saber to himself with the force. He couldnt' do that in a strict saber contest, so he dies.)

Enyalus
Meh...A clear headed Pre Suit Vader should defeat anyone besides maybe Mace, Depa, and Luke in a duel.

Faunus
Assuming that a "clear-headed" Anakin would be going through the likes of Yoda, the Emperor, Exar Kun, etc., I don't see how Mace or Depa would stand a chance. If he has clarity, he isn't using the dark side, and therefore the more unique aspects of Vaapad would be null.

Of course, there's a rather large group of individuals that probably Anakin can't defeat in an all-out battle; Luke, Yoda, Sidious and possibly a dozen or more prominent Sith Lords, Kyp Durron, and most likely Starkiller and Mace Windu. Obi-Wan is fully capable of taking him, too.

Enyalus
Master! I said 'Pre Suit Vader,' not Anakin. sad Ala Dark Side user.

Tangible God
Yeah, a clear headed Vader is really Jedi Anakin.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Tangible God
Yeah, a clear headed Vader is really Jedi Anakin.

A clear headed Vader would be the one who slaughtered countless Jedi at the Jedi Temple and was able to effortlessly kill Cin Drallig and (perhaps) defeat Shaak Ti in battle. At the Jedi Temple, which was the strongest Force nexus in the galaxy and Light-Side alligned (meaning everyone he killed was receiving a power boost while he was definitely not.)

Also, towards the end of his fight with Count Dooku, I think he taps into the Dark Side then as well. Prior to actually defeating him, he was holding back and 'clear headed.' Then he 'unlocks the furnace' or some other kind of analogy, and absolutely destroys Dooku - moving his blade so quickly that Dooku sees the room through a blue haze.

truejedi
Originally posted by Enyalus
A clear headed Vader would be the one who slaughtered countless Jedi at the Jedi Temple and was able to effortlessly kill Cin Drallig and (perhaps) defeat Shaak Ti in battle. At the Jedi Temple, which was the strongest Force nexus in the galaxy and Light-Side alligned (meaning everyone he killed was receiving a power boost while he was definitely not.)

okay KOTOR... we have no proof that anyone recieves a boost from the Jedi Temple until the Wall was destroyed in NJO. Even then, its obvious you didn't have to use the ligh-side of the force to gain that boost (Nyax is proof enough of that ( that's his name right?))

Faunus
Enyalus, not KOTOR.

Jbill311
Same dif. We can check who he quoted.

truejedi
i was saying KOTOR, because that's where the idea of lightside, and darkside alignment comes from.

Faunus
Ah. I agree with your point, I was just confused.

Enyalus
Originally posted by truejedi
okay KOTOR... we have no proof that anyone recieves a boost from the Jedi Temple until the Wall was destroyed in NJO. Even then, its obvious you didn't have to use the ligh-side of the force to gain that boost (Nyax is proof enough of that ( that's his name right?))

From the ROTS novelization:

'The Jedi Temple was the greatest nexus of Force energy in the Republic; its ziggurat design focused the Force the way a lightsaber's gemstone focused its energy stream. With the thousands of Jedi and Padawans within it every day contemplating peace, seeking knowledge, and meditating on justice and surrender to the will of the Force, the Temple was a fountain of the light.

Just being on its rooftop landing deck sent a surge of power through Anakin's whole body; if the Force was ever to show him a way to change the dark future of his nightmares, it would do so here.'

1) Do not ever call me KOTOR again.
2) Do not ever correct me again.









wink stick out tongue

Enyalus
Meh, since I can't edit my post anymore: The reason Lord Nyax was able to use it and it boosted Dark Side powers, was because after the slaughter at the Temple during the Great Jedi Purge, the power became twisted with the Dark Side of the Force (as to be expected from that much death and suffering).

Prior to that, as you can see...it's a light alignment. And as Anakin demonstrates, just by being on the roof of the building gave him a surge of power. As a Dark Sider, he obviously doesn't have that bonus, everyone else does - and he still utterly dominated. That's very impressive to me.

truejedi
eh, you were right, i was wrong in this context, i'll give you that. I had forgotten that. I don't know if he would LOSE the bonus necessarily just because of his alignment. If there is power there, powerful force users often seem able to tap into it, but i was wrong about the whole force nexus thing.

Enyalus
No biggie, I was just being a prick because I like feeling powerful (it brings me closer to my master, Faunus).

And excessive use of quotes makes me feel like Gideon. big grin

Tangible God
Too much reading, hurts toes.

My point was that Anakin falls to the Dark Side becuase things are not clear. His whole fall was based around his perception of his friends and allies betraying him. You know... Jedi buddies are traitors, Obi-Wan's a jerk, Padme's dieing, closest confidante a Sith Lord. Vader, as we should more accurately say, was not too clear-headed in ROTS. Which is why a clear-headed ROTS pre-suit Vader is a paradox.

Am I right? Can anyone correct me?

Enyalus
Originally posted by Tangible God
Too much reading, hurts toes.

My point was that Anakin falls to the Dark Side becuase things are not clear. His whole fall was based around his perception of his friends and allies betraying him. You know... Jedi buddies are traitors, Obi-Wan's a jerk, Padme's dieing, closest confidante a Sith Lord. Vader, as we should more accurately say, was not too clear-headed in ROTS. Which is why a clear-headed ROTS pre-suit Vader is a paradox.

Am I right? Can anyone correct me?

In the larger picture, wurd. But when he's fighting Dooku, for instance - after using the Dark Side, it says he has 'crystal clarity.' *shrug*

Tangible God
Yeah. "tEh Zone Anakin." I didn't like that part. Made him Dark, but not Dark.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Tangible God
Yeah. "tEh Zone Anakin." I didn't like that part. Made him Dark, but not Dark.

He was definitely dark at that point. Using his fury to fuel his power. No fear. And intentionally murdered the defenseless Dooku. He was just able to focus purely on the battle at that point. Something he clearly had trouble with on Mustafar.


....Although prior to Obi-Wan arriving, he Force Crushes a durasteel blast door easily. That was hardcore. Take that people to say Anakin's force command is crap.

Gideon
Will she go or will she stay? (WILL SHE STAYYYY?)
Fool herself for one more day (ONE MORE DAY!!!!)
Don't give up,
Never walk awayyayayyayayayayayyy
Love's a promise that he made (THAT HE MADE!)
In his heart it still remains (STILL REMAINS)
Don't give up,
Never walk awayyyyyyyayayayayayyyy
*solo*

Enyalus
no expression You okay, Gideon?

Tangible God
Fruitless question. Asking Gideon if he's okay is like asking why Rob Schneider won't quit. You're never gonna comprehend the answer, so don't even try.

truejedi
isn't this the 2nd thread i've said AAR cool! but now, looking at it closer, i don't think its AAR, its close to one by them, but its not is it?

Enyalus
AAR?

Gideon
Originally posted by Tangible God
Fruitless question. Asking Gideon if he's okay is like asking why Rob Schneider won't quit. You're never gonna comprehend the answer, so don't even try.

Sorry. I was briefly possessed by the great sounds of Journey.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Gideon
Sorry. I was briefly possessed by the great sounds of Journey.

Journey? Seriously. May I take that as an admission of your love for butt sex?

Vorpal Ruin
Originally posted by Enyalus
Journey? Seriously. May I take that as an admission of your love for butt sex?

I hope you arent implying anything bad about Journey. When your all alone tonight, crying, and you dont think that you can cry anymore, just remember, Don't Stop Believin'!

I'm kidding, but seriously, Journey rocks.

Gideon
Journey does rock. Top thirty best selling music acts of all time, one of only a dozen bands to ever have an album surpass the ten million mark, and members include one of the most technically accomplished singers in history and a guitarist who joined Santana professionally at age 16 (and received an offer by Eric Clapton to join Derek & the Dominoes).

Tangible God
*looks around sheepishly*..............just a small town girl.....living in a lonely world...

Gideon
SHE TOOK TEH MIDNIGHT TRAIN GOING ANYWHERE!

NonSensi-Klown
Sorry, I don't listen to that gay fudge pucker soft-core stuff. I only listen to straight-up death metal.

... like Linkin Park.

Tangible God
*gives Blax a deadpan stare*................Any way you want it!....

Enyalus
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Sorry, I don't listen to that gay fudge pucker soft-core stuff. I only listen to straight-up death metal.

... like Linkin Park.

Cannibal Corpse (Death Metal band) has a song titled, "I cum blood." ....Needless to say, its gross.

NonSensi-Klown
CRAAAAAAAAAAWWWLIIIIIIIIIINGGGG MYYY SKIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!!!!

Enyalus
Crawling *in* my skin....I think?

NonSensi-Klown
Not if you yell it hard enough.

Cpt. Valerian
But he didn't.

So you lose.

Gideon
Originally posted by Tangible God
*gives Blax a deadpan stare*................Any way you want it!....

THAT'S THE WAY YOU NEED IT ANY WAY YOU WANT IT.

Tangible God
"Where did all this liquor come from? And who'se playing that music?"

Jaeh.is.Awesome
I actually enjoyed reading this.

kamikz
Originally posted by Gideon
THAT'S THE WAY YOU NEED IT ANY WAY YOU WANT IT.


She loves to laugh
She loves to sing
She does everything

She loves to move
She loves to groove
She loves the lovin' things

Gideon
Originally posted by kamikz
She loves to laugh
She loves to sing
She does everything

She loves to move
She loves to groove
She loves the lovin' things

Kamikz understands. Perry4Life!

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