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Maul
Zannah
Jaina Solo
Sion
Dooku

All out.

anakin wins: might have trouble at sion, but i truly doubt it. Sion only does his "restore himself" thing in places imbued by the darkside, so it depends on where the fight takes place.

Originally posted by truejedi
anakin wins: might have trouble at sion, but i truly doubt it. Sion only does his "restore himself" thing in places imbued by the darkside, so it depends on where the fight takes place. Prove that he can only revive himself in places strong in the darkside.


Provide a fight outside where the darkside is weak and he couldn't revive himself.


Prove it.

Jaina could take him.
Caedus was way more powerful than Dookie ever was.

prove that caedus was way more powerful than dooku ever was.
Prove that jaina could take him.
prove it.


kreia told the exile that he couldn't kill sion on korriban because the darkside was strong there...

Originally posted by truejedi
prove that caedus was way more powerful than dooku ever was. Flow Walk alone proves greater raw power, and in a saber duel with Lomi Plo Jacen was stabbed in the stomach saving Mara, puncturing three organs and survived. ... You got me!
...Nice paraphrase, she that he was not a creature of flesh blood. Also, that it was could not be won.

IMO Jaina in the end of LOTF could beat Anakin. I also agree that Caedus was more powerful than Dooku.

Which Anakin we talking about, ROTS or what cause shit AOTC ani would die at #1
Oh and he dies at 2 maybe 3, cause I doubt he'd take out Maul with no damage.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Which Anakin we talking about, ROTS or what cause shit AOTC ani would die at #1
Oh and he dies at 2 maybe 3, cause I doubt he'd take out Maul with no damage.

This is ROTS Anakin.

Ok well I'd say he goes down at Number three, I mean the man does have an almost unlimited force reserve, but Maul is a powerful Sith Apprentice and Anakin will have a tough time with him.

Anakin clears this, assuming he has rest inbetween.

His most difficult battle is going to be either against Maul or Jaina, though.

Maul could probably compete with him in a duel on any given day. Throw in Bane's apprentice with her sorcery and formidable raw power, and then follow up with an older and more experienced Skywalker child, and you have one dead man.

Basically, he dies at Jaina. While I believe that he's at least as good a duelist as she is, and likely a fair bit better, she has shown far more mastery of the Force, and doesn't hesitate to use traditionally dark side techniques to her advantage. She tends to fight smart, too, and Anakin doesn't deal well with smart.

Who needs brains when you're the original Skywalker?

Faunus does make a strong point: Darth Maul's mastery of Juyo, technically, makes him a "high end master of multiple forms." Physically, he is on par with Skywalker, though he is far better trained in terms of physical and melee combat. Likewise, he lacks Skywalker's Force reserves. Hmm.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Prove that he can only revive himself in places strong in the darkside.
Provide a fight outside where the darkside is weak and he couldn't revive himself.
Prove it.
1. Throwing burden of proof around is not a debating tactic, it just muddies the issue.
2. On Malachor 5 he says something to the effect of: "You cannot defeat me here. The dark side flows through my body and I will rise again and again." (not the exact quote, my next play through will be post-TSLRP)
3. I feel like being a bit of an ass, so i'll play semantics. "outside where the darkside is weak" The darkside is strong on Korriban and Malachor, so the two fights there would qualify under the meaning of your query.


Jaina was an inferior swordsman, but a superior duelist. Granted.

HOWEVER, her defeat of Caedus does not carry the same weight as Anakin's defeat of Dooku. Caedus was undeniably the stronger sith, but Jaina did not WTFpwn him like Anakin did to Dooku. Also, Anakin was left alone with Dooku, while Jaina had Luke, and a troop of Mandalorians to help her in her respective fights. She never faced Jacen when he was at full strength and ready for her. On a vs. thread, she would be torn to shreds.


1. Caedus had a broader and more adaptable knowledge of the force, a near immunity to pain, and a Skywalker bloodline. Ignoring what the two did with their knowledge of the DS, (A contest in which Jacen would win also) his attributes imply a victory.
2. Jaina vs. Anakin Skywalker:
Jaina has an applicable force mastery that surpasses the Chosen One's- that is, she can use the force with more skill and mastery, even with Solo and Amidala blood thinning the Skywalker potency.
Anakin probably takes Sabers, due to his formal training and status as

This is, sadly, an all out fight, and Jaina has shown a special aptitude for taking advantage of weaknesses in her opponents, utilizing distractions, and using any trick she has to to win. Anakin showed rage and stupidity in his only all out fight. That won't help.
3. As I said, shifting (or attempting to) Burden of proof has its place, but contributes little to the discussion.



I agree on every count.

Originally posted by Jbill311



Jaina was an inferior swordsman, but a superior duelist. Granted.

HOWEVER, her defeat of Caedus does not carry the same weight as Anakin's defeat of Dooku. Caedus was undeniably the stronger sith, but Jaina did not WTFpwn him like Anakin did to Dooku. Also, Anakin was left alone with Dooku, while Jaina had Luke, and a troop of Mandalorians to help her in her respective fights. She never faced Jacen when he was at full strength and ready for her. On a vs. thread, she would be torn to shreds.

1. Caedus had a broader and more adaptable knowledge of the force, a near immunity to pain, and a Skywalker bloodline. Ignoring what the two did with their knowledge of the DS, (A contest in which Jacen would win also) his attributes imply a victory.

2. Jaina vs. Anakin Skywalker:
Jaina has an applicable force mastery that surpasses the Chosen One's- that is, she can use the force with more skill and mastery, even with Solo and Amidala blood thinning the Skywalker potency.
Anakin probably takes Sabers, due to his formal training and status as








Jaina defeated her brother because he thought he knew what to expect from her. She defeated him, because the first time she shot him in the arm before starting to fight him, and because he was off fighting an image of luke the whole time, and she was still so far down and out that she had to be carried into the ship.
she fought him the second time when he had ONE ARM.
She also stuck a lightsaber all the way through him before THAT duel started. He also didn't try to fight her, he tried to escape to warn allana. And finally, he had every opportunity to kill her when she was landing her final blow on him, and he passed on it. If he had killed her, it would have turned the ridiculously unfair "victory" into a stalemate. Jaina's victory over caedus in NO WAY proves she is a superior duelist to him. She wasn't even close. Mara jade came closer to killing jacen in a fair fight than jaina did, and she AMBUSHED HIM.

Caedus vs. skywalker, maybe its goes to caedus. maybe. But i'd call it a toss-up. And jaina was NOWHERE near Caedus. She gets curbstomped. Smart is good, rage is bad, but still, this is anakin we are talking about, he was maybe the most skilled lightsaber duelist in the order at the time of ROTS (definitly unsubstantiated, but he did make the claim, and NO ONE contradicted him) So he was at least close.
I've already pointed out how far behind caedus jaina was. She doesn't have a chance.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Prove that he can only revive himself in places strong in the darkside.


Because he himself said so, that on worlds like malachor V he can keep restoring himself and not fall.

As for the fight, if this was a saber duel, he would risen up the ranks and then may fall to maul, if its all out its likely jaina beats him.

Right off the bat, I have to tell you that my original post came out a little bit jumbled up. I meant everything in number 1 to refer to a comparison between Caedus and Dooku.

Originally posted by truejedi
Jaina defeated her brother because he thought he knew what to expect from her. She defeated him, because the first time she shot him in the arm before starting to fight him, and because he was off fighting an image of luke the whole time, and she was still so far down and out that she had to be carried into the ship.
she fought him the second time when he had ONE ARM.
She also stuck a lightsaber all the way through him before THAT duel started. He also didn't try to fight her, he tried to escape to warn allana. And finally, he had every opportunity to kill her when she was landing her final blow on him, and he passed on it. If he had killed her, it would have turned the ridiculously unfair "victory" into a stalemate. Jaina's victory over caedus in NO WAY proves she is a superior duelist to him. She wasn't even close. Mara jade came closer to killing jacen in a fair fight than jaina did, and she AMBUSHED HIM.

If you read the first part of my post that you quoted, you will find that I actually agree with you. She is not on par with Caedus, and I give examples of how she had advantages over him in their fights. I argued (or meant to) that her defeat of Caedus was not as impressive as Anakin's defeat of Dooku. She takes advantage of situations beyond her target's control. She is an inferior fighter, but a superior duelist.

Originally posted by truejedi
Caedus vs. skywalker, maybe its goes to caedus. maybe. But i'd call it a toss-up. And jaina was NOWHERE near Caedus. She gets curbstomped. Smart is good, rage is bad, but still, this is anakin we are talking about, he was maybe the most skilled lightsaber duelist in the order at the time of ROTS (definitly unsubstantiated, but he did make the claim, and NO ONE contradicted him) So he was at least close.
I've already pointed out how far behind caedus jaina was. She doesn't have a chance.

I agree that Caedus was miles beyond Jaina, but I would also call him far beyond Anakin. Anakin has trouble with Obi-Wan, (I know there were extenuating circumstances, but bear with me) and even though he was incredibly powerful, even in normal combat he is very unpredictable, even rash- endangering the lives of many combatants to save one person. Jaina is a very smart fighter, and is skilled enough to capitalize on Anakin's mistakes. She also has superior force mastery, and even with inferior force potential would win the Force battle. In an all out fight I see her edging Anakin out of the running, if only 5/10 times.

How did this get to a Vader vs. Caedus thread?

If KOTOR3 is giving Anakin rest inbetween bouts, like I said - he clears it.

If not, before I posted he'd die to Jaina. Now though, I'm thinking he'd die to Zannah. Maul would take a lot out of him.

Originally posted by Jbill311
Right off the bat, I have to tell you that my original post came out a little bit jumbled up. I meant everything in number 1 to refer to a comparison between Caedus and Dooku.


If you read the first part of my post that you quoted, you will find that I actually agree with you. She is not on par with Caedus, and I give examples of how she had advantages over him in their fights. I argued (or meant to) that her defeat of Caedus was not as impressive as Anakin's defeat of Dooku. She takes advantage of situations beyond her target's control. She is an inferior fighter, but a superior duelist.



I agree that Caedus was miles beyond Jaina, but I would also call him far beyond Anakin. Anakin has trouble with Obi-Wan, (I know there were extenuating circumstances, but bear with me) and even though he was incredibly powerful, even in normal combat he is very unpredictable, even rash- endangering the lives of many combatants to save one person. Jaina is a very smart fighter, and is skilled enough to capitalize on Anakin's mistakes. She also has superior force mastery, and even with inferior force potential would win the Force battle. In an all out fight I see her edging Anakin out of the running, if only 5/10 times.

i wasn't disagreeing with you on that first part, i was expounding it a bit for anyone who would disagree with you. I just had a thought. is this anakin skywalker or anakin solo?

Anakin Skywalker.

I was definitely talking about Anakin Skywalker. I don't like that they killed Anakin Solo, because he had a similar power level without the predestined BECOME VADER/ KILL PADME etc. thing hanging over his head.

Originally posted by Jbill311
I was definitely talking about Anakin Skywalker. I don't like that they killed Anakin Solo, because he had a similar power level without the predestined BECOME VADER/ KILL PADME etc. thing hanging over his head.

I also liked Anakin Solo better than Skywalker.

Originally posted by Enyalus
If not, before I posted he'd die to Jaina. Now though, I'm thinking he'd die to Zannah. Maul would take a lot out of him.Nah. Maul would piss him the f*ck off, and as a result he'd pull a Bane on Zannah and beat her into the ground. If she gets one of her stupid little spells in on him, she might be able to take him, but I really don't think she has a chance in hell.

Jaina, though, is damn good. I say after Maul and Zannah, Anakin falls to her after a particularly vicious fight.

Good thread, btw.

Originally posted by Faunus
Nah. Maul would piss him the f*ck off, and as a result he'd pull a Bane on Zannah and beat her into the ground....Jaina, though, is damn good. I say after Maul and Zannah, Anakin falls to her after a particularly vicious fight.

That's what I initially thought. Then I realized this is all-out, and that given Maul wouldn't be a pushover, and in fact may even deplete a good portion of his Force-reserves, that Zannah may be able to hold him for a small while with her style, or snap off a Force Horror spell and win.

I thought jedi can combat force illusions?

As for anakins force power, i still think he surpasses jaina in raw power considering that he could lift a massive statue and sent it flying like a missle to destroy a massive door(or wall).

Force knowledge wise? Jaina > him.

But then again, anakin was able to tool dooku, one of the greatest jedi and an even greater sith and make his knowledge of the force a joke.

If this is "zeh zone anakin" and if he engages jaina in a saber duel, i don't see why he couldn't do the same to her he did to dooku.

It didn't help poor Jedi Knight Sarro.

how does jaina have more force knowledge than anakin? anakin was trained in the temple, and with obi-wan. They had all the knowledge of the Old republics jedi order. the NJO still just has all the knowledge they've been able to scrape together, and its doubtful jaina has learned even close to a decent percentage of that knowledge. She's a pilot, she's been away at war, not acting as a jedi, but acting as a fighter pilot. she's hardly even been an acting jedi most of her life. i would guess her force knowledge is very limited. Her greatest fighting tool is something she learned from the mando's.

I've heard this before and I've only just realised what bad logic this is. The crux of the issue is that Sion holds his body together by sheer will all the time so it doesn't make sense that he needs to be on a darkside strong world to do it. Btw the whole 'restoring himself' is pretty much the same thing and unless it takes a huge amount more energy to do it (he can hold himself together indefinately without visible effort) then he should logically be able to do it anywhere. I think the quote means that on Malachor he can 'rise a thousand times' or whatever whereas on other planets he probably gets exhausted after the hundreth time or so.
Thats my theory anyway.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I've heard this before and I've only just realised what bad logic this is. The crux of the issue is that Sion holds his body together by sheer will all the time so it doesn't make sense that he needs to be on a darkside strong world to do it. Btw the whole 'restoring himself' is pretty much the same thing and unless it takes a huge amount more energy to do it (he can hold himself together indefinately without visible effort) then he should logically be able to do it anywhere. I think the quote means that on Malachor he can 'rise a thousand times' or whatever whereas on other planets he probably gets exhausted after the hundreth time or so.
Thats my theory anyway. It's one thing to keep his body together, but after sustaning damage and falling aprt, and then putting it back together again, that's a bit more difficult.

How do you think his body got that damaged in the first place? Old age does a number, but not that kind of number.

Originally posted by Enyalus
How do you think his body got that damaged in the first place? Old age does a number, but not that kind of number. Never said he couldn't do it, but piecing together a freshly damaged (and singed) body would be a bit more difficult, wouldn't you say? Like trying to glue together a broken vase... except the pieces are cracking further and are on fire.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Never said he couldn't do it, but piecing together a freshly damaged (and singed) body would be a bit more difficult, wouldn't you say? Like trying to glue together a broken vase... except the pieces are cracking further and are on fire.

Here's my dilemma: I want to agree with you. You make sense. But at the same time, how has he done it all the previous times? The same method, I would think. And he never states nor implies that it takes days or hours to ressurect or repiece himself back together. So...

Originally posted by Enyalus
Here's my dilemma: I want to agree with you. You make sense. But at the same time, how has he done it all the previous times? The same method, I would think. And he never states nor implies that it takes days or hours to ressurect or repiece himself back together. So... One does not need to tell another a fact, for that fact to be true. Wouldn't be very "Sithly" or "stealthy" of Sion to go about revealing that.

And it may even be done quickly, but I'd assume to quickly rebuild an even more broken body, and freshly damaged to boot, would require a more profound energy drain.

It may require more energy. But since he feeds on pain, and obviously being hacked apart would hurt...there's your extra energy reserves.

Originally posted by Tangible God
One does not need to tell another a fact, for that fact to be true. Wouldn't be very "Sithly" or "stealthy" of Sion to go about revealing that.

And it may even be done quickly, but I'd assume to quickly rebuild an even more broken body, and freshly damaged to boot, would require a more profound energy drain. As he is the Lord of Pain, and from what Kreia says, the agony he endures from being cut up and his deep well of hatred fuels the power. He might feel a little drained, but the fact that pain strengthens him so much would negate this.

His concentration is a different story.

If Anakin impales him through the chest, he'll expect the fight to be over, but Sion could easily grab the hand than holds the saber, headbutt him, then cut him in half.

Originally posted by truejedi
how does jaina have more force knowledge than anakin? anakin was trained in the temple, and with obi-wan. They had all the knowledge of the Old republics jedi order.Yeah, and at twenty-three with just over thirteen years of Jedi training under his belt, plus the fact that he never ascended beyond the rank of Knight - when we know that a Jedi Master still needs to be on the Council to have access to some of the more impressive Holocrons in the archives, and Anakin was a stand-in Council-member for a few days - I think we can conclude that Anakin's knowledge of arcane techniques and applications of the Force isn't quite extraordinary.

Also knowledge doesn't necessarily equate to mastery or control over the Force. Jaina, I believe, was able to rub air molecules together to create light when she was a little kid. Anakin's use of the Force, while certainly more impressive on an instinctive level, rarely shines through as exceptional in the realm of mastery.

Yet Anakin is going to have even looked at anything more than a fraction of what the original Order had access to? No.

Jacen and Jaina both demonstrated powerful usage of Force-lightning, and Jaina has access to the shatterpoint ability. She

LOL

Anakin wasn't a pilot? Anakin wasn't "away at war"? Jaina fought on foot in several of the most critical battles of the war. Over the course of the five year war she most probably faced down more numerous and more dangerous enemies than Anakin did in the Clone War, anyway.

Uh, yeah she has. Anakin has spent thirteen years as a Jedi - Jaina has been training or experimenting with the Force on some level for about thirty. She started formal training when she was thirteen, so she's had nearly twenty years of training intermingled with several years spent in one war or another.

You'd be wrong.

That would be...?

Y'know, if anyone we've seen is suited to taking on Zannah and stomping her into the dirt, it's Anakin..

If Sarro hadn't been distracted and had the downside of the rush of fatigue and weakness from the battle meditation's ending and hadn't been a total moron and turned to LOOK to see what'd happened behind him, Zannah never would've hit him with a spell

Again, that whole scene was an Olympic-size swimming pool's worth of PIS. Bane's demonstrated abilities make it clear that, if he'd wanted to eliminate his enemies quickly - which would've been logical - he could have done so fairly easily. Worror was the only reason the Jedi lasted more than a few seconds, anyway.

To be fair as it was, Johun's the reason the Jedi lost by constantly not allowing Sarro to lunge and finish Zannah when she lost her footing.

If Sarro had just yelled "Stay the **** out of my way, idiot!" The Jedi would've won.

Heck...even without the BM, Sarro probably could have taken Zannah with his style.

Y'know, while Karpyshyn's good at action scenes, the Jedi Jobber fight is just ludicrous.

you know, if Bane gets to use orbalisks, i don't know why we try to make it sound like the BM is an unfair advantage. I mean, c'mon now, invincible armor? you want unfair advantage, start there.