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General Grievous has the light sabers of course.

Windu takes it by a decently large margin. General Grievous is the only one who would stand a chance against Windu once his Saber was out. With a wave of his hand he would force push Boba and Jango out of the way, then crush Grievous' chest like a tin can. The two mandalorians will then be decapitate AOTC style, Grievous will then be manhandled by a warmed up Master Windu.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
With a wave of his hand he would force push Boba and Jango out of the way,

funny i dnt remember him simply waving his hand agianst jango in AOTC.

also you realise he described jango fett as a deadly opponenet in shatterpoint.. and only decapitated him after finding his shatterpoint.

Greivous gives him a decent batlle in sabers, so with Boba and Jango as well I think Mace definetely has a lot of difficulty, and might even lose.

The team owns Windu. Hardcore. 8/10.

EU I guess.

The team, easily.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The team owns Windu. Hardcore. 8/10.

Windu stood a chance against Sidious, who is far more of a threat than all three of them together.

No Windu did not just simply force push Jango in aotc, he simply slahed his head off lol.

Oh Come on, the reason Mace didn't "just do that" in AOTC is because; one if a Jedi just WTF pwned every non-Jedi he faced it would be pretty anti-climatic. Honestly Mace has dealt with Grievous on more than one occasion each ending with Grievous being wrecked via force. Not to mention in AOTC Mace was kind of distracted by the mutated bull running amok. Now in a fair arena Jango would get annihilated. Mace can produce a force wave capable of pushing back armies. The only one who could resist this is Grievous, the only threat hear. I'm sorry but there is no way the Second most powerful Master of the PT era would lose to two Mandalorians and GG. Mace would quickly fing Jango, and Boba's shatterpoint and quickly dispense of them then he would engage GG in a duel which he cannot win. I mean the man fought on par with ROTS Sids with Sabers. This is the same Sids who dispatched two respected "swordsmasters" in five seconds flat. Simply the way GG is dispatched by Windu in the Comics and CW series states that Windu outclasses the General in almost all areas. Fett and Boba will not live 10secs from the start of this fight and will be KO'd then its Grievous vs. Windu which we know will result in Grievous being KO'd

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Honestly Mace has dealt with Grievous on more than one occasion each ending with Grievous being wrecked via force. ... The only one who could resist this is Grievous, the only threat hear. I'm sorry but there is no way the Second most powerful Master of the PT era would lose to two Mandalorians and GG. Mace would quickly fing Jango, and Boba's shatterpoint and quickly dispense of them then he would engage GG in a duel which he cannot win. I mean the man fought on par with ROTS Sids with Sabers. This is the same Sids who dispatched two respected "swordsmasters" in five seconds flat. Simply the way GG is dispatched by Windu in the Comics and CW series states that Windu outclasses the General in almost all areas. Fett and Boba will not live 10secs from the start of this fight and will be KO'd then its Grievous vs. Windu which we know will result in Grievous being KO'd

In Labyrinth of Evil- Directly before ROTS- Mace fights Grievous on top of a moving train. He has the advantage with greater mobility, because the force is more effective than magnets and with an unknown saber style, because Grievous had never seen Vapaad. Grievous is definitely a major threat to Windu. Within a few passes, his 'servoprocessors' had mimicked Vapaad to such a degree that Windu thought he might have a problem.

The argument that Sidious > Grievous and Mace = Sidious is inherently flawed. Besides being a>b>c logic, they bring different capabilities to the table. Sidious gave Mace's vapaad something to work off of, a dark side aura that Grievous does not have.

Grievous/Mace is a fairly close pairing, and I think that the combined blaster fire/ flamethrower/ mines/ etc. from Bobba and Jango would tip the balance in the team's favor.

Unfortunately for you Star Wars Clone Wars depicts Grievous as being owned by Mace. And that is T-Canon just below Lucas himself. So yes it does take your novel in canon. Now if thats not enough for you I recall Grievous being pwnd by Windu in Obsession as well.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Unfortunately for you Star Wars Clone Wars depicts Grievous as being owned by Mace. And that is T-Canon just below Lucas himself. So yes it does take your novel in canon. Now if thats not enough for you I recall Grievous being pwnd by Windu in Obsession as well.

Luckily for me, I haven't seen that movie, so I don't have to take offense at your unnecessarily smug and condescending attitude.

I haven't read the book, so I can't dispute that. I would contend however that they are combatants capable of challenging each other, and would be very surprised if there were no extenuating circumstances in Obsession.

There were no extenuating circumstances. lol and its a TV show, the movie only depicts Grievous in the 1st 5 minutes. I'm talking the animated show. LOL my unnecessarily smug and condescending attitude, brilliant response; instead of addressing my points you retort with a personal insult

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Unfortunately for you Star Wars Clone Wars depicts Grievous as being owned by Mace. And that is T-Canon just below Lucas himself. So yes it does take your novel in canon. Now if thats not enough for you I recall Grievous being pwnd by Windu in Obsession as well.



1. The show does not remove the book from official cannon status. The time span between the books allows for Grievous to improve. While it removes some of the glamor of mimicking Vapaad so quickly, their previous fight(s?) do not erase the prestige Grievous gains for challenging Mace.

2. Please provide the details of the Obsession fight, as I haven't read it. The fight might not be as one sided as you claim. This is simply because I haven't read it, and I'd like you to explain it to me.

Lol there was no fight Grievous kills Soon Bayts then Adi Gallia...then Mace smashes a STAP on top of him...pwnt

If all he did was attack him with the force, then why is the fight being used to substantiate Mace over Grievous? In a saber battle the only evidence you have given is of the Clone Wars television show, and I have admitted ignorance.

You did not seem to object to my interpretation of Grievous's improvement between the two sources, settling the contradiction between the novel and the show.

Thus far we have had two main points. The fight in the show, which I am ignorant of, I admit, but which does not discredit Grievous's challenge of Mace in Labyrinth of Evil. The second was the fight in Obsession, which you have said was not a direct saber confrontation between the two combatants.

No no Mace will manhandle the trio with the force. Meaning that he will use both the force in a combination with Vaapad.
If he only used his Saber even I will admit mace being toast.
In CW all Mace did was implode Grievous' chest with the force

I love Mace, so it's weird to be arguing against him, but here goes.

His only notable showings in the force are in telekinesis. He has the Shatterpoint advantage, Vapaad- an especially potent form of combat- and is considered to be the second best duelist in the order. Shatterpoint is a tactical advantage, but against three notable combatants he will be hard pressed to take advantage of the Shatterpoint, even if he is able to find it. Telekinesis is one of the most rudimentary force powers, and Grievous was trained by a Sith Lord. Dooku, in designing a training regimen for an intended Jedi Killer surely taught him how to counter, or at least cope with a Force Push. Mace even remarks that Telekinesis is one of the first techniques that padawans and younglings learn- even before they start lightsaber training. Surely Dooku would have included such an important skill.

Grievous has already been proven capable in dealing with Vapaad.
The force will throw the battle in his favor in a one on one duel, but the two bounty hunters would throw the battle in Grievous's favor.

No but Grievous got wrecked by Force crush ala Mace. He imploded his chest to the point of him having his terrible cough in ROTS. Jango can compete with an AOTC Kenobi, but was destroyed by Mace with minimal effort. Form I is also taught first to Padawans and yet one of the Order's most renowned swordsman(Fisto) uses it as his primary form. Mace has been shown force pushing an army of SBDs and no I'm not exaggurating. Grievous will get crushed by Mace with the Force Mace will then proceed to bend over both Boba and Fisto. And Dooku said to Grievous that he could not beat Mace Windu, Yoda and possibly Kenobi. Dooku himself could not best Windu in Obsession although if the duel prolonged it is arguable who would have won. Mace will have no problem killing the Fetts Grievous is the main problem hear and if he quickly dispenses him with the force i.e. crush his chest then Boba and Jango are toast

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Not to mention in AOTC Mace was kind of distracted by the mutated bull running amok.

urm no the arena monster actually helped mace.. it trampled over jango breaking his jet pack.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Jango can compete with an AOTC Kenobi, but was destroyed by Mace with minimal effort.

1. Kenobi was told to take Jango alive for questioning. so he wasnt allowed to kill him.

2. Mace fought Jango with his jet pack broken. How long do u think Jango wuld have lasted against Kenobi if he culdnt fly off. It would have been just as long as he lasted agaisnt Mace.

3. Read shatterpoint. Mace never thought of Jango Fett as an easy opponent.

Originally posted by Jbill311
Shatterpoint is a tactical advantage, but against three notable combatants he will be hard pressed to take advantage of the Shatterpoint, even if he is able to find it.He doesn't need to. They're men in armor, with guns. A stroke of his weapon anywhere and that's it.

Of course, he notes in Shatterpoint that even if he'd managed to kill Dooku instead of threatening Jango, the bounty hunter would've killed him immediately. So if Mace somehow screw up, he will die.

Which is why Mace Force-pushed him off of a train (mag-lev) in Labyrinth of Evil, right?

Actually, it's how to counter telekinesis, but yeah, that would be more than implied as well.

Not for very long. He began mimicking the motions of Vaapad, and Mace decided he'd had enough. He cut the floor out from under Grievous, dodged the counter-attack, and Force-pushed him off of the mag-lev. This, while having to fight and keep from being blasted off said transport while moving at high speeds, when all Grievous had to do was turn on the magnets in his feet.

Not nearly enough. Mace dealt with far worse in Shatterpoint, and the Battle of Dantooine had him single-handedly fight through a droid army and bring down a seismic tank, possibly with his bare hands, depending on what source you look at. He was fast enough to land six blows on Kar Vastor before the man could blink, and Jaina Solo - someone who had only just learned the shatterpoint technique - was capable of destroying supposedly indestructible armor with only a small burst of directed telekinetic energy at the weak points. Mace, who has mastered it beyond anything we've ever seen and used it in truly astonishing manners should be able to do the same to the Fetts' armor, then grind Grievous into the ground.

Again.

GG engages him in a duel and the Mandos gun him down.

Right. Because Mace can't handle guns.

If he takes the the time to block the blaster bolts, then GG dices him.

Because he can't use telekinesis or run away?

Again, Shatterpoint, against dozens of men with repeating blasters, and later against an army. Again, the Battle of Dantooine, against hundreds of thousands of blaster-firing droids.

Originally posted by Faunus
Because he can't use telekinesis or run away?

Again, Shatterpoint, against dozens of men with repeating blasters, and later against an army. Again, the Battle of Dantooine, against hundreds of thousands of blaster-firing droids.

There's a new style of debating where the participants don't actually offer evidence. We must conform.

CW drastically overvamped the powers for pretty much everybody(oh and not all of the droids fired at him at once. They basically just stepped up and waited for their turn to be destroyed) so if we were to use it the GG>> Obi-Wan and 1 Jedi equals whole armies.
Lancer droids>> Republic tanks and walkers.

And all the other BS.

Oh and in Shatterpoint he knew that even he couldn't block all of those bolts at once so he intimidated them.

Oh and if CW is to be taken seriously then what the clone troopers did in the MOVIES is not to be accounted for as canon.

Originally posted by Faunus
Because he can't use telekinesis or run away?

Again, Shatterpoint, against dozens of men with repeating blasters, and later against an army. Again, the Battle of Dantooine, against hundreds of thousands of blaster-firing droids.

GG's 20 strikes per second plus two of the greatest bounty hunters in history - both equipped with rocket launchers, flamethrowers, and powerful blasters - and Boba's armor being lightsaber resistant? Not to mention GG is a brilliant tactician and the two Fetts would work brilliantly together.

They wouldn't be stupid about this. And have enough fire power and skill to take this battle.

Originally posted by Enyalus
GG's 20 strikes per second plus two of the greatest bounty hunters in history - both equipped with rocket launchers, flamethrowers, and powerful blasters - and Boba's armor being lightsaber resistant? Not to mention GG is a brilliant tactician and the two Fetts would work brilliantly together.

They wouldn't be stupid about this. And have enough fire power and skill to take this battle. Exactly, but why do people like you and me have to point out and spell out obvious things like this?

I am only doing the will of my God, unbeknownst to him, and spreading His word.

He's just forgotten it.

Sounds like he forsake you...
Hey why we meet at a friend of mines place, he'll be able to help you get over it, and all you have to do is be loyal to him for a tryst.

Originally posted by Enyalus
GG's 20 strikes per secondWhich Mace made short work of on top of a speeding mag-lev.

Can be deflected with the Force or cut in half with a lightsaber, as Kenobi does in one of the Jedi Apprentice or Jedi Quest books (whichever one focuses on Anakin).

Which they would need to be dangerously close to effectively use.

Lightsaber?

Shatterpoint? Jaina, who was newly introduced to the technique, was able to basically disintegrate similarly resistant armor with a telekinetic prod. Mace can do the same.

Yeah, but they're not resistant to the Force. Mace could easily dismantle their attempts at teamwork with his Force-enhanced speed and precognition.

Seriously. Shatterpoint. Labyrinth of Evil. The Battle of Dantooine.

No, they don't.

Mace can't just instantly force crush GG then rape the remaining two.. why?

Hell. Mace can't just force crush GG, THEN twenty seconds later force crush one of the duo... why?

Originally posted by Faunus
Seriously. Shatterpoint. Labyrinth of Evil. The Battle of Dantooine.

I've read both.

But, hey...I don't mind changing my opinion to favor Mace. Much like Thrawn and Revan, Master Windu is full of win.

Black Jedi are always cool.

who was it saying grievous could use telekinses? you do realize he can't use the force, right?

Originally posted by Faunus
Not for very long. He began mimicking the motions of Vaapad, and Mace decided he'd had enough. He cut the floor out from under Grievous, dodged the counter-attack, and Force-pushed him off of the mag-lev. This, while having to fight and keep from being blasted off said transport while moving at high speeds, when all Grievous had to do was turn on the magnets in his feet.

First off, it should be noted that Grievous was specifically noted to have only used two sabers in the duel; "Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak." Therefore, Grievous could, logically, not have had access to his full '20 strikes per second' to fight against Mace, which would mean that he couldn't fight to his fullest possible extent. In addition, Mace actually attacked Grievous- not the other way around- so, it is possible that force crush would not be his first choice.

In addition: "For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long. Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries."

It was clearly said that Grievous' magnetism was far less effective than Mace's force-enhanced grip, giving Mace yet another advantage in that duel; he was able to move far more freely and with more agility.

By the way, I'm not saying that Grievous has a hope to actually beat Mace in a duel, but it will be quite difficult for Mace to overcome him.

Originally posted by Faunus
Not nearly enough. Mace dealt with far worse in Shatterpoint, and the Battle of Dantooine had him single-handedly fight through a droid army and bring down a seismic tank, possibly with his bare hands, depending on what source you look at. He was fast enough to land six blows on Kar Vastor before the man could blink, and Jaina Solo - someone who had only just learned the shatterpoint technique - was capable of destroying supposedly indestructible armor with only a small burst of directed telekinetic energy at the weak points. Mace, who has mastered it beyond anything we've ever seen and used it in truly astonishing manners should be able to do the same to the Fetts' armor, then grind Grievous into the ground.

Again.

Well, I gotta say, I disagree with that. Even in the AotC novel, the following quote notes that Mace actually had notable difficulty blocking Jango's bolts: "The man was good, Mace had to admit. Very good, and more than once the Jedi had to parry desperately to turn a bolt aside. He kept up his offensive flurry, though, keeping Jango on the defensive with sudden stabs and slashing cuts.". Now then, during that time, Jango only had one of his blasters, not his favored two, effectively reducing the number of bolts he can fire in half. Add Boba in, who is another extremely talented bounty hunter, and Grievous, who could, individually, give Mace a difficult fight, and I can't see Mace taking this.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Mace can't just instantly force crush GG then rape the remaining two.. why?

Hell. Mace can't just force crush GG, THEN twenty seconds later force crush one of the duo... why?

And thus, Crimzon's entire argument falls to pieces.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And thus, Crimzon's entire argument falls to pieces.

The fact remains that Mace, in his first duel with Grievous, actually attacked the General with his lightsaber instead of force-crushing him, indicating that a force crush is not his preferred method of combat.

Originally posted by Faunus
Because he can't use telekinesis or run away?

Again, Shatterpoint, against dozens of men with repeating blasters, and later against an army. Again, the Battle of Dantooine, against hundreds of thousands of blaster-firing droids.

yes but he can not do any of this while in an intense lightsaber fight.

and as Master Crimzon and I have already pointed out Jango himself is not considered and Easy opponent by Mace. Not by far!

Thats made clear in both the AOTC novel and Shatterpoint which you ironically keep referencing as proof that Mace would take down Jango, Boba and Greivous simultaneously!

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
The fact remains that Mace, in his first duel with Grievous, actually attacked the General with his lightsaber instead of force-crushing him, indicating that a force crush is not his preferred method of combat.

And as everyone knows, or should know, in vs. fights the character's personality is not taken into account. The characters will use whatever atatcks they have that will end things the quickest and most efficently, irregardless of how they canionically act.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And as everyone knows, or should know, in vs. fights the character's personality is not taken into account. The characters will use whatever atatcks they have that will end things the quickest and most efficently, irregardless of how they canionically act.

Presumably, if General Grievous and Mace start out at close-range, Mace won't be able to use a force crush- which seemingly requires energy and concentration. While under the pressure of 20 strikes per second, he won't be able to pull a crush from his ass.

Even if they start out with considerable distance between each other, look how Mace- in the footage from The Clone Wars- reaches out, concentrates, and crushes Grievous, giving the bounty hunters the opening required to shoot him down. Or do you think he could crush Grievous and simultaneously deflect blaster bolts coming from the galaxy's greatest bounty hunters?

^Do you think that the trio can win. I don't think so. This is the same Windu who dueled the Dark Lord of the Sith, fought of an army of battledroids twice, and was considered by many to be the premier duelist of the Jedi Order.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, I gotta say, I disagree with that. Even in the AotC novel, the following quote notes that Mace actually had notable difficulty blocking Jango's bolts: "The man was good, Mace had to admit. Very good, and more than once the Jedi had to parry desperately to turn a bolt aside. He kept up his offensive flurry, though, keeping Jango on the defensive with sudden stabs and slashing cuts.".That would be contradicted by the movie, in which there are only two points where Mace is close enough to " Jango on the defensive." the first time, he's fending off super battle droid blaster-fire when he gets hit by a flamethrower, and the second time he rushes Fett and cuts his head off.

I don't understand what you guys aren't getting. Mace doesn't have to stand in one place and fend off Grievous's lightsaber strikes and the Fetts' blaster bolts. He can move, and really, really fast. He has the Force, and he uses it better than almost anybody else in his era. He possibly fought through a droid army with his bare hands.

And you note that using Force-crush may not be his first instinct, yet he doesn't hesitate to literally drive Grievous into the dirt with a STAP after the cyborg kills Adi Gallia. Mace is nothing if not efficient, and he'll do whatever he can as quickly as he can to get through this.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Presumably, if General Grievous and Mace start out at close-range, Mace won't be able to use a force crush- which seemingly requires energy and concentration. While under the pressure of 20 strikes per second, he won't be able to pull a crush from his ass.Riiight. That's why Obi-Wan managed to charge up and unleash a Force-push that threw the General several dozen feet through the air.

I forgot that he has to be standing still to use the Force...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Presumably, if General Grievous and Mace start out at close-range, Mace won't be able to use a force crush- which seemingly requires energy and concentration. While under the pressure of 20 strikes per second, he won't be able to pull a crush from his ass.

Yes, if. And even then, you're assuming Mac can't use his blinding speed, ya know, the same one that he used to canonically defeat an entire army of battle droids with only his fists, the same speed he used to defeat Palpatine, the dark lord of the Sith, why? Shit, Obi-Wan did it.



Mace held his hand out for about... hm... one whole second? Noteven three seconds later GG was on the ground.



I say he uses his super fast jedi reflexes to simply dodge and deflect the blasters while killing either GG or the Fetts. Yes.

Faunus, stop posting before me.

Stop being slooooow. I though black men were fast.

Wait, no. You're half-Mexican, so that must slow you down.

*end racial rant*

Black men are slow with technology. Mexicans too, incidentally. So I'm like, double slow.

AHH!!! You guys are all over me!!! I concede the point.

Okay, no, I don't. Still, you people need to let me take a breath before I respond to your gang-assault. I'm a human being, too, even if I'm neither black nor Mexican.

Originally posted by Faunus
That would be contradicted by the movie, in which there are only two points where Mace is close enough to " Jango on the defensive." the first time, he's fending off super battle droid blaster-fire when he gets hit by a flamethrower, and the second time he rushes Fett and cuts his head off.

This particular piece of information only refers to the final engagement between Jango and Mace, and it contradicts nothing within the movies; having Jango shoot Mace, Mace blocking a few blows and then decapacitating the poor Mando. The novel only elaborates, stating it was difficult for Mace to block the bolts.

Originally posted by Faunus
I don't understand what you guys aren't getting. Mace doesn't have to stand in one place and fend off Grievous's lightsaber strikes and the Fetts' blaster bolts. He can move, and really, really fast. He has the Force, and he uses it better than almost anybody else in his era. He possibly fought through a droid army with his bare hands.

And you note that using Force-crush may not be his first instinct, yet he doesn't hesitate to literally drive Grievous into the dirt with a STAP after the cyborg kills Adi Gallia. Mace is nothing if not efficient, and he'll do whatever he can as quickly as he can to get through this.

You're right on two counts; Mace is both an insanely fast force user and is efficient. However, using incredible levels of speed- 'blinding speed', that is- will obviously require a certain amount of effort from him, considering that he, for example, chose to take Jango's bolts head-on instead of manuevering around him with his insane speed and killing him. Is there really any indication of Mace being able to use a high-powered force assault- like a telekinetic crush, a high-level dark side ability, that is used to crush durasteel- while moving at his peak speeds (read: speeds fast enough to prevent the two deadliest bounty hunters in history to shoot him down?).

Originally posted by Faunus
Riiight. That's why Obi-Wan managed to charge up and unleash a Force-push that threw the General several dozen feet through the air.

First off, they had a half in their confrontation, AND force push =/= force crush; force push is an extremely simplistic force power, while force crush is one of the more advanced. Will Mace be able to crush Grievous' chest while fending off twenty strikes/second?

Speaking of which, do you have any friggin' clue as to why Mace didn't just crush Grievous' head? I mean, it would be just as easy, and it would be lethal. Meh.

Originally posted by Faunus
I forgot he has to be standing to use the force...

To use high-powered dark side abilities? Is there any record of Mace achieving such a powerful feat while moving at 'uber' speeds, considering that, if memory serves, he actually stopped whenever he force-owned the droids in the battle of Dantooine?

As for Blax, I'll only respond to the points that haven't been up before.



Yeah. More than enough time for him to be shot down.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
This particular piece of information only refers to the final engagement between Jango and Mace, and it contradicts nothing within the movies; having Jango shoot Mace, Mace blocking a few blows and then decapacitating the poor Mando. The novel only elaborates, stating it was difficult for Mace to block the bolts.No, according to the novel he puts Jango on the defensive with short strokes and jabs. In the movie, he runs up, blocks five or six shots, and cuts his head off.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that Jango is a punk. Mace himself holds him in extremely high regard; he considered him the "deadliest man in the galaxy," and believed that had he managed to kill Dooku instead of threaten Jango, the bounty hunter, "bristling" with weapons, would've killed him immediately in retribution.

He ended up killing him in mere seconds anyway, so it clearly wasn't necessary.

It's aggrandized telekinesis, nothing more.

And Mace has deflected more shots, from more people, while heavily battered and not anywhere near "fresh." The Fetts can't hurt him.

Again, aggrandized telekinesis, and again, he can just run away. Hell, he managed to launch himself at Kar Vastor with enough speed and power that when the two men collided, lightning coruscated around them and lanced back into the ground and the trees. He was fast enough to land six blows on a man with the raw power of Yoda before he could even blink.

PIS.

Well, he held a loose, rough mound consisting of several hundred tons of unstable rock and gravel in place while scampering down it. He tipped an unbalanced steamcrawler back into place when it started teetering at the edge of a precipice.

And in the CWC, I distinctly recall him rushing head-on at eight SBDs, looping around in mid-air, and performing a sliding-Force-crush on them. While they're shooting at him.

But seriously, if we're actually going to bring in the cartoon, Mace utterly rapes this. His shatterpoint ability allowed him to literally dismantle a droid, then send its pieces flying through several. His Force-grip can target and annihilate multiple enemies at once - enemies made purely of circuitry and steel. And of course, he's already owned Grievous in that, so he could easily do so again.

Faunus hasn't ever responded to me before! Sorry if these have all already been dealt with- Yesterday was crazy.
Originally posted by Faunus
He doesn't need to. They're men in armor, with guns. A stroke of his weapon anywhere and that's it.

Of course, he notes in Shatterpoint that even if he'd managed to kill Dooku instead of threatening Jango, the bounty hunter would've killed him immediately. So if Mace somehow screw up, he will die.
He doesn't need to use Shatterpoint to remove a limb/kill, but he might need it to get into a position to do so. In his fight with Sidious he didn't use Shatterpoint to score a hit, he used it to gain a tactical advantage.


The train was moving. On flat, motionless, even ground, Grievous might be able to cope.


That is what I meant to say. Grievous can't use the Force, so the meaning was reasonably clear. Typo + tired poster = Sorry.


The magnets were more of a hinderance than a help for Grievous. I remember that Mace had the advantage in mobility in that battle. Mace could control his Force grip with much more finesse than Grievous could with his Mag-grip.



The Mandalorian armor is a non-issue. The lightsaber cuts through it just like everything else. (at least on Jango) If he destroys the armor, they still have guns to shoot at him, and would be trying to stay out of range of his saber anyway. Neither are stupid in regards to basic tactics.

Mace's speed would swing the duel if it was only against Grievous. In the Kar Vastor fight, he didn't have people shooting at him and disrupting the fight. In the Clone Wars event he wasn't dueling a highly dangerous Saber combatant. The two methods of fighting (one on one and vs. MANY gunslingers) require much different mindsets, awareness, saber styles and techniques. Combining the two diminishes capability in both.

Originally posted by Faunus
No, according to the novel he puts Jango on the defensive with short strokes and jabs. In the movie, he runs up, blocks five or six shots, and cuts his head off.

He blocks them, but it's impossible to tell if he blocks them with difficulty or without difficulty. The novel maintains that he did it with difficulty, and nothing in the movie suggests that it was easy.

Originally posted by Faunus
Of course, I'm not suggesting that Jango is a punk. Mace himself holds him in extremely high regard; he considered him the "deadliest man in the galaxy," and believed that had he managed to kill Dooku instead of threaten Jango, the bounty hunter, "bristling" with weapons, would've killed him immediately in retribution.

More proof that Jango would be able to cause Mace some serious damage with the addition of his team.

Originally posted by Faunus
He ended up killing him in mere seconds anyway, so it clearly wasn't necessary.

If we go by what you say- the EXTREMELY high regard he held Jango in- it is only plausible that Mace would go all-out and take the absolute best way to kills someone who could actually be a threat to him. Really, if Jango's jetpack wasn't trampled, it's impossible to know what Mace would've done.

Originally posted by Faunus
It's aggrandized telekinesis, nothing more.

Telekinesis used in a deadly, brutal fashion- not only is it inherently a dark side ability, it is used to crush durasteel, not some weak-ass metal. That should require effort on Mace's part.


Originally posted by Faunus
And Mace has deflected more shots, from more people, while heavily battered and not anywhere near "fresh." The Fetts can't hurt him.

Yeah, by Mace's own admission, Jango could have killed him if he spent the time to kill the good ol' Count. He could have hurt him; even the novel says that he was sometimes in danger. Against Jango without a jetpack and with only one blaster.

Originally posted by Faunus
Again, aggrandized telekinesis, and again, he can just run away. Hell, he managed to launch himself at Kar Vastor with enough speed and power that when the two men collided, lightning coruscated around them and lanced back into the ground and the trees. He was fast enough to land six blows on a man with the raw power of Yoda before he could even blink.

Run away, crush Grievous, and own the Fetts? I guess it's pretty much plausible, unless one of the Fetts snipes him or something. Still, if he gets tangled in a duel with Grievous, he's f*cked.

Originally posted by Faunus
PIS.

Well, that's blunt.

Originally posted by Faunus
Well, he held a loose, rough mound consisting of several hundred tons of unstable rock and gravel in place while scampering down it. He tipped an unbalanced steamcrawler back into place when it started teetering at the edge of a precipice.

Yes, Mace is indeed a beast, but it's a far cry from crushing something made out of the hardest metal in the galaxy (right), while moving at peak speed and dodging shots from the two deadliest bounty hunters in galactic history.

Originally posted by Faunus
And in the CWC, I distinctly recall him rushing head-on at eight SBDs, looping around in mid-air, and performing a sliding-Force-crush on them. While they're shooting at him.

SBD =/= Grievous, and SBD =/= Jango. Skill, percision, and accuracy > rate of fire.


Originally posted by Faunus
But seriously, if we're actually going to bring in the cartoon, Mace utterly rapes this.

It is physically impossible to rape Grievous. Unless...

Ugh. So much for a good night's sleep.

Originally posted by Faunus
His shatterpoint ability allowed him to literally dismantle a droid, then send its pieces flying through several. His Force-grip can target and annihilate multiple enemies at once - enemies made purely of circuitry and steel. And of course, he's already owned Grievous in that, so he could easily do so again.

You have a point. I can see Mace taking this, after all, but it wouldn't be close to easily, and if he gets tangled in a duel, he's dead.

If the second it would have took Mace to kill Dooku is all Jango Fett needed to shoot Mace down(according to Mace's own logbbok in Shatterpoint), then how on Earth is Mace going to survive both Jango Fett and Boba Fett shooting at him while battling Greivous.

Not gna happen.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Yes, if. And even then, you're assuming Mac can't use his blinding speed, ya know, the same one that he used to canonically defeat an entire army of battle droids with only his fists, the same speed he used to defeat Palpatine, the dark lord of the Sith, why?

you talking about the clone wars cartoons. did you not notice GG's blinding speed in those cartoons which he used to canonically dominate 5 jedis simultaneously including Senior Council Member Ki-Adi-Mundi??

as for the fight with Sidious, Vapaads superconducting loop made Mace as fast as Sidious for that fight only. He wuldnt be that fast in this fight.

again if the time it took Mace to strike down Dooku is all it would have taken for Jango to shoot down Mace, then how on Earth is Mace going to survive shots from both Boba and Jango while fighting off Greivous???

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
you talking about the clone wars cartoons. did you not notice GG's blinding speed in those cartoons which he used to canonically dominate 5 jedis simultaneously including Senior Council Member Ki-Adi-Mundi??

as for the fight with Sidious, Vapaads superconducting loop made Mace as fast as Sidious for that fight only. He wuldnt be that fast in this fight.

again if the time it took Mace to strike down Dooku is all it would have taken for Jango to shoot down Mace, then how on Earth is Mace going to survive shots from both Boba and Jango while fighting off Greivous???
Look in the CW cartoon Mace's gunship gets shot down, he lands in front of grievous and in a half second he crushes his chest, grievous is on the ground coughing. But lets look at obsession shall we, when Grievous is so dumbstuck by Mace's power he's like Huh? then gets flattened by a STAP. And seriously Mace could just unleash a massive force wave like he used to push back an army of SBDs, then crush Grievous' chest and proceed to pwn the fetts. Once that is done he will move to finish Grievous

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Look in the CW cartoon Mace's gunship gets shot down, he lands in front of grievous and in a half second he crushes his chest, grievous is on the ground coughing. But lets look at obsession shall we, when Grievous is so dumbstuck by Mace's power he's like Huh? then gets flattened by a STAP. And seriously Mace could just unleash a massive force wave like he used to push back an army of SBDs, then crush Grievous' chest and proceed to pwn the fetts. Once that is done he will move to finish Grievous

In both those scenarios he was sum distance away from GG, so was not in lightsaber range, and only had GG to focus on.

again Mace says himself if he took a second to go attack dooku then Jango Fett would have killed him in that second.. and GG being as fast as he is should be more than enough of a distraction for Jango and Boba together to shoot him down.

and btw the Massive Force Wave thing was a huge exaggeration of Mace's power. he wasnt able to do anything like that when up against the droids in AOTC.