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I have heard them all! Lich King is supposively omnipotent. Lich King is supposively the strongest in WCU. Lich King is supposively unkillable. Lich King is supposively limitless. Lich King supposively masters all elements of WCU. Lich King is supposively the mightiest soul in WCU. Lich King supposively can never completely die.

I am but a truthseeker, wanting an answer. How powerful is Lich King? By sending him up against the strongest advesary thinkable in WCU and hear the voice of fans, I hope to determine just how strong he truelly is.

Lich King falls.. The same instant the fight starts..

I may not be a Warcraft professional compared to ones such as Becci and Nozdormu, but I know when things are obvious. Lich King goes down. Hard

Lich King goes down so hard...

nobody can determine how strong he truly is Truthseeker apart from Blizzard employees, and we are unlikely to know until lore is released on the character describing of his full powers.

So you do not want to exclude that it is possible Lich King can kill Highfather? That Lich King might be equivalent or beyond Highfather in actual power? That it is possible that a creation of Kil'Jaeden could take such an ascent in power that he surpass the Titans and kicks Highfather in the crotch?

Hypothetically straight trough, with usage of theoretic speculations, can Lich King kill Highfather? The grandmaster of the Pantheon.

No, he can't.

There is absolutely nothing to support that he can.

Agreed.

Nozdurmo's power originates from Highfather unless the Lich King has documented abilities to counter timebased attacks he is powerless against Highfather and too my knowlegde he doesn't have any.

Highfather For the Win.

Lich King needs to stop being overrated, at his absolute best he would be as strong as Kiljaedan, and even that is doubtful.

agreed.

Everything will be unraveled when you fight him in WotLK. It will then be determined on the active scenario, if you get help, if he is weakened, what abilities he uses and such factors. The encounter with Lich King will show how powerful he is.

The only current solid feats we have since Arthas became Lich King are:
- High level telepathy
- Bring one Frostwyrm to live
- Control undead

I look forward to see him using two sets of power necromancy and Frost.

No matter how many schools of magic he masters, I doubt we'll ever see him on par with Amanthul. The titan created time, did he not?

It's indirectly suggested that he did, yes.. And your quite right, as it's virtually impossible for Lich King to even have the glimpse of a shot against Highfather.. Anyone who gave Nozdormu his powers would be nigh unstoppable on a planetary level.. Highfather's powers over time would surpass Nozdormu, and that is sufficient enough to grant him victory against most thinkable foes.. Especially ones such as Lich King who'd be considered in the "lower" high-Tier of Warcraft..

Originally posted by C. C. Cowgirl!
No matter how many schools of magic he masters, I doubt we'll ever see him on par with Amanthul. The titan created time, did he not?

It's more out of interest too see how accurate the MoM is.

But to answer the question that I think TruthSeeker was asking..

Lich King should not be near as powerful as you have seem to heard him be.. He is a highly advanced Lich, a geinous and highly advanced telepath.. There are no implications of him being anything else.. Nothing indicates him being a match for the Pantheon, or beings within their league..

The Lich King is not highfather level, but I personalyl think hes not far off from Titan level

Regarding Arthas's abilities, obviously all death knight powers shown in Warcraft and WoW are available, and probably all lich/necromatic powers as well. Add in Ice and his ability to generate the plague of undeath himself, and he's got alot of things to choose from.

I was going to ask why Highfather of the new gods is here in VG versus, but apparently it's the leader of the Titans. No chance.

Kiljaeden is iffy, but obviously he's stronger than Illidan by quite abit, and he's powerful enough to basically ignore the dragons.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The Lich King is not highfather level, but I personalyl think hes not far off from Titan level

Why would he then need bodyguards? Makes little sense that one as powerful as a titan require two bodyguards in the current WCU Azeroth. Not many powerful characters still stand.

The Titans like Amanthal are powerful, why would Titans so powerful need to designate a champion like Sarg? surely they are all powerful, the reason is simple, they simply want to, also what bodyguards do you speak of? also Titans are defeatable, all beings are defeatable in Warcraft, Sargeras plans all backfired and he is considered one of the most powerful Titans to excist.

I dont think Arthas needs bodyguards, he is by far the most powerful being int he Scourge that much is obvious.

How did you come to bring all that up? It was of no relevance to my post as far as I know. The bodyguards that I speak of are the two armed warriorish angelic creatures that stand on respective side of Lich King in his fortress at Northrend. By the way, Sargeras plan was not merely backfired. It was overriden. His plan was never really in motion because it was all the work of the Old Gods. He was doing the Old Gods bidding without knowing it. So saying his plan backfired is rather loose and I would rather say that the Old Gods plan was merely stronger. The plan never really backfired, only failed.

well he ended up a destroyed spirit in the void none the less which was my point that Titans are not as all powerful as I feel they are overhyped to be, I mean in essence they are not gods, they are merely objects of creation to mold planets, Arthas imo could easily be on the height

But as i said, Arthas is the highest being in the scourge, the two bodyguards are not ncesserily real bodyguards, they could simply be beings who kill LK enemies if they try to strike him while the king himself doesnt bother with such ants, but yeh, the main point is the LK is by far the highest in the scourge and so he wouldnt actually need body guards.

What makes you say the Pantheon are overhyped and what makes you say Arthas needs no bodyguards?

Because A: those bodygurds are going to be simply a pair of mobs that guard him before the real fight against Arthas, I highly doubt they are more powerful than theri master and founder of the scourge, the one being who began it all and has been gifted by several high powers and gained enormous amounts himself....I doubt a pair of nameless (afaik) bodyguards are abovet he power of the final boss of the instance either.

The Pantheon are often in forums said to be all powerful entties, people talk of Amanthul as if he was God in some forums, which he is not, he simply a large titanic figuire, Titans have died before by the Old Gods I belive as well, a lot of people and the MOM puts Elune above Titans, too many people overhype the Titans, the guys dont really have that much information detailed on their exact power level, they have powers over diffrent elements and such but they are not detailed enough, just like Lich King to be raised above too many levels of power. Sure their obvious physcial attributues and mastery over say Magic for Norggannon and Time for Aman'thal are things to consider, but Norgannon didnt exactley just vaporise the Elemetnals or the Old Gods in the great war, Amanthal didnt just freeze everone in time in an instant, so obviously their powers have limits.

A: The bodyguards might not necessarily be more powerful than Lich King, but if he does not need them, why would he have them? If he is powerful enough to destroy opponents with a gesture, would he not? He is arrogant enough to think that bodyguards would not be necessary, unless they actually are. They might not be more powerful than him, but they might be required to deal with things that Lich King can not deal with on his own. Lich King is a very smart character, so they are likely there to fill in the holes that he himself can not.

B: None in the Pantheon has ever been recorded to die. Titans have died before, because they have participated in battle. The Pantheon are powerful, but they are not warriors. They are observers and creators. Which was why they appointed one champion. Sargeras. They are for sure, alongside the Old Gods, the most powerful entities in WCU. Elune is not a debatable matter, since she has never engaged battle. She is likely not far from equivalent to Eonar, perhaps even stronger, but all we know of her is not enough to consider her above Pantheon. So I repeat. The Pantheon are not warriors, which was why they did not end the war by using all of their powers. Of course their powers have limits. It is specified nowhere that they would be limitless. Each Pantheon titan has their areas of expertise. None cover them all.

A: he has them because it would be a boring Raid if the players just ran up to the top of icecrown and fought the LK, raids if youve played WoW have many creatures in them.

B: So whats your question really? I mean if you say you cannot scale power, yet your asking who is more powerful LK or highfather, what are you really asking? neither have gotten into real combat and neither have really used their powers....

Lich King was in danger of losing to Tirion at Light's Hope Chapel, but that was because it was holy ground, and Tirion had the purified Ashbringer, the ultimate anti-undead sword.

As for bodyguards? Give me a freaking break. Every last boss in video gaming has bodyguards. It amuses them to see you fight and gives them a heads up to your skills. Having played a DK in the beta, the valkyr aren't there because Lich King has holes in his abilities, they're there to flank him and make him look cooler. And as Burning said, to dispose of unworthy foes.

Death Knights in WoW start at Ebon Hold. You start with a buff called Undying Will. It says you cannot die because you are under the protection of the Lich King. He send the valkyr to rez fallen DK, not that he can't do it himself.

Say what you want. I still believe they are there for a reason, rather than just be there for show.

well then your not seeking truth, your seeking nothing because your basically just said that your beliving what you want to belive no matter what people say, the only reason their there is to be a perhaps before final raid Mobs, stronger mobs than usual, much like the two giant machines in Karazhan that suck away magic users energy at close range, or the two large creatures in SSC, same with any boss.

I am seeking the truth, but that does not mean I should not be allowed to have my own opinion in the matter. The two large creatures in SSC and the two machines in Karazhan are not necessarily bodyguards, but instead troops in Lady Vash's ranks or machines under Prince's command. They are not near as much implicated to be bodyguards as two angelic creatures standing close to Lich King's side.

These characters ime mentioning do stand at the gates or guard the quarters to important characters like these bosses however, their just set pieces, their not relevent

The bodyguards that you speak of are Val'Kyr Battle-Maidens, employed and empowered by the Lich King to help him survey the spirit realm and lend him a hand in ruling it. It has nothing to do with the Lich King's combat skills or the necessity of bodyguards. They are employed to help rule the spirit realm and to bring back fallen Death Knight. They can not be used to fill in holes, because the majority of the powers they have gotten was given to them by the Lich King himself. They are not necessary, but they are making things easier for the Lich King. With their help in surveying the spirit realm, the King himself can focus on the active physical realm and his newly invited 'guests' to Northrend.


Now to remain on topic. As mentioned, the Pantheon save Sargeras and his successor are not warriors. Aman'Thul would never actually kill the Lich King, since it is not part of whom he is. This of course would lead to a stalemate, considering the fact that Lich King lack the means to kill the Pantheon Highfather. There would be no winner in this fight, since Highfather would be in a constant out of reach for Lich King. So this either end up a stalemate, or a forfeit by Highfather and a win for Lich King. Much like how Lich King consider lesser foes unworthy of his time, the Highfather would not consider a battle between Lich King and himself a necessity. So depending on how you look at this, it would be a 0/10 for both sides, or a 10/10 for either side. It is all a matter of perspective. Lich King would win due to Highfather forfeit. Highfather would win if characteristics are removed. Neither would win if evasive activity is considered legit behaviour, since Lich King could never actually kill Highfather.

Love the perspective of the fight. But considering this was more a thread to satisfy my curiosity of the strength that Lich King has, rather than who would win between the two, I am wondering if you perhaps could speculate like the others of how powerful the Lich King is? You seem rather educated in the matter at hand (WCU). Not to mention that I would never have considered Lich King Versus Highfather a stalemate, or even a win for Lich King. Shows that you keep a relatively open mind

Which has repeatingly been stated in the past, it is impossible to really tell the powers of the Lich King. We know he has highly advanced powers over the spiritual realm, over necromancy, shadow and cold magic as well as a high extent of telepathic abilities. His intellect is most certainly high tier, which makes his not quite matching abilities just as dangerous as if they were. While he is of little significance in power to larger forces in the universe, such as some of the aspects, the Old Gods or the Pantheon, he is certainly far beyond anything that has an active status on Azeroth to date. Given Nozdormu's absence, Neltharion's departure and Malygos corruption, he really is in any man-to-man combat encounter unstoppable. Save for possibly Alexstrasza who would oppose a threat in an encounter (But as we all know, she would not engage Lich King in battle)

I base this on various Lich King official phrasings by blizzard, on his known abilities so far as well as various historical encounters. If warcraft characters were rated in matter of how dangerous they are on a destructive scale, I would personally say Lich King is perhaps 8/10. There is a big leap between 8, 9 and 10 though. This given his current advesaries, his abilities and superior mind. Had he risen in the middle of War of the Ancients, he would be further down on the scale because there would be factors that could oppose him.


As it is right now, given his advesaries, he is the most dangerous entity on Azeroth, alongside the corrupted Malygos (Whom fortunately seem to be sitting the storm out, only to be properly dealt with by Alexstrasza's and the horde/alliance hands)