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The time for the battle between the Four Great K's has come, all of them at their peak...

Combatants: Kyle "Who's-ur-daddy" Katarn and Obi-Wan "z0MG!" Kenobi versus "The Perfectionist" Kas'im and "The Dark Killer" Kaox Krul.

Setting: Echo Base hanger on Hoth, as seen in Empire Strikes Back.

Rules: A traditional lightsaber-only battle; passive use of the Force is allowed, of course.

You have my personal guarantee that this hasn't been done before or your post back!

....Gah, this is hard for me. Kyle's a great duelist, but I think Kas'im has him beat. The issue is Kenobi. He's supposed to be a great swordman and master of Soresu. And as a PT era Jedi, he should be exceptional.

...But Krul was simply amazing. And his final duel was one of the best I can remember.

If team two doesn't win on skill, they at least win via badassness. 7-8/10.

If being a PT-era Jedi was grounds for being exceptional, than the previous generations bow before Coleman Trebor. Obi-Wan is what he is by his own merit, Sidious is the ultimate inheritor of the Sith legacy and the reason the Force is out of balance, Anakin is the Chosen One, Dooku is simply prodigious, and Yoda is nine hundred years old. The TotJ has Nomi Sunrider (picked up a lightsaber for the first time and wielded it "like a master", Exar Kun (duh), Ulic Qel-Droma (his day's Skywalker), the thousand year-old Odan-Urr, the six hundred year-old Vodo Bass, and several other truly ancient Jedi Masters and notable Jedi Knights.

The KotOR period had "Heart of the Force" Revan, the talented Malak, the apparently exceptional Kavar (who gained even the Mandalorians' respect), the "walking dead" Sion, and the veritable titan, Nihilus.

Even the ancient Sith had the immensely powerful Simus, the even greater Naga Sadow, and "the most powerful of the most powerful, the Dark Lord of the Sith," Marka Ragnos.

So yeah.

Now, on-topic. Kas'im could almost certainly (eventually) defeat either Kenobi or Katarn in individual combat, but I'm not sure how Krul would fare.

Krul's the weak spot here, I'd say. while as a pure swordsman, Kas'im would probably be able to take Katarn or Kenobi, together, he'd be in horrible troucle and each would be capable of giving him a decent fight.

Kas'im's trump card is rendered a bit moot given both Obi and Kyle have experience against Jar'Kai users

Incase people need a better idea of who Krul is, here are some quotes (Hand typed, so be appreciative ):

'He wore black body armor of his own design. It consisted of protective padding and composite plates crafted into an intricate pattern that glorified the Sith and the Brotherhood of Darkness. He had also used Sith alchemy to imbue the armor with dark side energy, creating a barrier that provided some protection against the abilities of the Jedi.'

'At his side, clipped to his belt, hung the lightsaber that he had used to kill more than a hundred foes. Kaox hadn't constructed the weapon. He had earned the lightsaber, taking it from the still-grasping hand of the first Jedi he had killed in personal combat.'

"The Marauder is powerful, Dree. Don't underestimate him. He knows that we've been following him since Harpori, and we've both felt his hatred -- his darkness -- through the Force. Something tells me that this isn't the place to confront him."

'He let the dark side swell inside him, using it to mask his own presence while simultaneously enhancing his senses to stay alert.'

'Dree caught movement out of the corner of her eye. It was as though a shadow had disengaged itself from the forest and was moving toward her at lightspeed. She turned toward the dark blur, reacting with Jedi reflexes but still feeling like she was standing still.'

'Dree tried to steady her voice, but she knew she was no match for the Marauder.'

His Force speed was fast enough to come within a few meters of a speeder bike that was running wide-open. After he had been struck with it and knocked down.

His final duel lasted for literally hours, part of that time it being 2 on 1 against the Jedi and her padawon. He was also able to fight lightsaber to lightsaber while using the Force to hover above a lake. And his duel there turned the entire place into a place of the Dark Side, 'he looked out over the bleak lake, trying to make sense of what happened. All he found in the Force, though, was darkness and despair.'

*nods*

Just the pool became a Dark Side nexus due to both Maru and Krul there, to be technical, btw. As power goes, Krul was good in the Brotherhood...but do recall he's below Kaan, Kopecz and Qordis-and Bane, of course.

isn't katarn getting a little sold short here? i get the feeling that his short duel with Caedus kinda shot him down in terms of pure power. This is the guy though, that luke puts in charge of the Jedi whenever he's not around. He's Mace Windu of the NJO in other words. "Second best buttkicking guy in the galaxy"--SLJ
Kas'im is a sword specialist, weapon's master, so i wouldn't just write him off either... but Katarn is too good to just be an afterthought in this duel. That said, Kenobi probably surpasses Katarn, and i can't see Kasi'm breaking a defense that is probably the best in the history of star wars. (in pure defensive terms) So i would give it to Jedi here. I think we are dealing with much higher ranked jedi than they've been given credit for so far.

Yeah, I actually think Kyle could fare well against Kas'im and perhaps even beat him. He did, after all, defeat the Seven Dark Jedi--all of whom are described as powerful and clearly exceptional duelists (the leader, Jerec, is the best among them and one of the greatest of the era). Did I forget to mention that this was with little-to-no formal training at all? Because it was. So his natural talent with a blade is pretty much the best shown in the mythos, next only to Kun's, Ulic's or Bane's perhaps.

He also beats Jerec when he gets a boost from the Valley of the Jedi. According to Qu Rahn, having the power of that would be greater than anything the universe had ever seen. This is a guy trained by Yoda and knows of Palpatine--take it for what it's worth.

Kyle is now a fully trained Jedi and Battlemaster of the NJO. As LS mentioned, he also knows of Jar'Kai very well. What are some reasons that Kas'im would be able to actually defeat him?

All of the Dark Jedi were second tier Force users at best. Jerec is only out of that category when he goes to Ruusan. Moreover, he beats him only after cutting him off from the Valley's power.

I agree that Kyle's skills are exceptional, But Kas'im was able to make Bane look silly. And is was the greatest duelist in the galaxy during his era. Now, could have been a crummy era, but I doubt it. Kyle isn't even third when it comes to his.

I know that that logic isn't so great, but...all of it's pretty circumstantial.

Kas'im did so because he attacked with a form Bane had no idea of. Considering Kyle's era consists of Luke, Kyp, Jacen at the like, that's a really bad argument.

Consider: Kas'im's era included Johun Othone. That drops it a tier or five.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Just the pool became a Dark Side nexus due to both Maru and Krul there, to be technical, btw. As power goes, Krul was good in the Brotherhood...but do recall he's below Kaan, Kopecz and Qordis-and Bane, of course.Kaan was powerful even by Bane's standards, Kopecz was a badass and the most calculating Sith Lord in the Brotherhood, and Qordis was just manipulative. I'd say Krul could probably take at least one of them in a duel, since he probably did more front-line fighting anyway.

If any of them, it'd be Qordis. Kopecz seems the rare 'competent' Sith of the Brotherhood and Bane believed the spirits had vanished from Korriban because there were no Sith powerful enough.

And Kaan's power seems mainly in manipulation, too...have we ever seen him fight?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Consider: Kas'im's era included Johun Othone. That drops it a tier or five.

And Kyle's era includes Corran Horn, who wouldn't even be able to telekinetically throw the brick that Naga Sadow did. Plus he's much older.

Originally posted by Faunus
Kaan was powerful even by Bane's standards, Kopecz was a badass and the most calculating Sith Lord in the Brotherhood, and Qordis was just manipulative. I'd say Krul could probably take at least one of them in a duel, since he probably did more front-line fighting anyway.

True. Krul was extremely devoted to Kaan and loved front line fighting and killing Jedi. He wasn't really cut out to be in a leadership position and deal with Sith politics. I think he could beat Qordis and probably Kaan, given that Kaan doesn't seem the warrior type. He was dangerous enough to warrent the Jedi sending a special hunter after him to personally assassinate him. Plus, that whole "killing over a hundred" Jedi thing. Which is roughly the amount of Sith that Raskta killed, and we saw how good she was.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And Kyle's era includes Corran Horn, who wouldn't even be able to telekinetically throw the brick that Naga Sadow did. Plus he's much older.
The TK thing is a Halcyon thing...his father suffered it, too. As far as other talents go, Corran compensates.
Plus he killed Shedao Shai in single combat. Corran=hardcore



If Kaan couldn't back it up, he'd have been killed long ago. He, Qordis and Kopecz were the three most powerful. Kaan ruled in practice but if Kopecz wasn't a calm, rational guy, he'd have overthrown Kaan in a heartbeat

Raskta killed way more than a hundred. Krul was an assassin primarily...if they sent Raskta after him, for one, I doubt he'd have lasted long

Originally posted by Lightsnake
If any of them, it'd be Qordis. Kopecz seems the rare 'competent' Sith of the Brotherhood and Bane believed the spirits had vanished from Korriban because there were no Sith powerful enough.

And Kaan's power seems mainly in manipulation, too...have we ever seen him fight? We've seen his battle meditation win a large fight, we have the fact that he was the head of the Brotherhood's war efforts - which would presumably make him one of the best-equipped for war - and we have Bane basically calling him powerful.

"He was many things... but not weak." Something like that.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Raskta killed way more than a hundred. Krul was an assassin primarily...if they sent Raskta after him, for one, I doubt he'd have lasted longRaskta was rumored to have killed more more people than the thought bomb, so yeah, she probably has one hell of a kill count.

And Krul was known as "The Marauder" for a reason. Most of his killing was up front and messy.

Recall Kaan's not a BM master though and the strain on him was enormous...even then, it was up in the air till Kopecz took things into his own hands.

As far as power goes, Kaan likely had to do some work to carve out his power as a Sith Lord during the whole Sith Civil War...though he's frequently described as a coward who preaches a 'hypocritical' philosophy.

Right. I mean, Kaan is powerful, without question. Does that translate to combat prowess? Say he only knows one saber style. Or that his precog is crappy because he focuses most of his powers on mind manipulation (of which Battle Meditation would fall under).

Kaan got his position by being powerful, but smooth. I can definitely see him pitting several extremely powerful people against each other, getting them to kill themselves off, then taking the leadership role. Much as Bane did.

If Kaan didn't have some ability, he'd never have been able to become a Sith Lord and in effect Dark Lord of the Sith....the Brotherhood was formed after Kaan emerged as the dominant Sith after a particularly violent civil War with Qordis and Kopecz as supporters.

Don't forget, Kaan was an ex-Jedi Master, too

Kaan seems to imply that Kas'im is a better fighter than him, when wanting Bane hunted down and killed.

Nothing explicit, though.

Kas'im is the best duelist in the galaxy. If he was, however, the best sheer fighter and most powerful, he would have been Dark Lord.

True. So, you think that Kenobi beats Krul? And does he do it before Kas'im bests Katarn?

I wouldn't say a Kas'im victory to Kyle is assured, really. He is the Battlemaster, a veteran and Jacen considered him one of the few Jedi who was a threat. Kenobi should be able to stay alive in so far as his supreme Soresu knowledge goes...could go either way depending on Kas'im and Kyle...switch it up and it's the same way really

Not to me. If Kas'im fought Kenobi, I think he'd make quick work of him. And likewise, Kyle should get rid of Krul with slight difficulty.

Obi-wan is an absolute Soresu master though, and familiar with DBL and Jar'Kai opponents.

He's fast enough to block '20 strikes a second' General Grievous with just 'difficulty', too.

Kas'im isn't some second rate badly injured machine-based assassin. Kas'im would kill the Grevious that Obi-Wan did, too. And easier.

If it was that easy, plenty of Jedi would have done it beforehand. Grievous is a monster in combat and as much a faster of every form there is, and weaponry. Obi-wan was sent due to his perfect mastery over Soresu

Originally posted by Enyalus
And Kyle's era includes Corran Horn, who wouldn't even be able to telekinetically throw the brick that Naga Sadow did. Plus he's much older.


Woah, let's ease up on Corran here, the guy manages to be uber without the most basic of Jedi abilities (albeit while being a tiny bit of a gary-stu). Still, corran would have 90% of the force users in the galaxy crapping their pants with the visions he could put in their heads. I mean, how long could you last with the image, sound and...smell of Jar Jar Binks being projected into your head. It'd be 10 seconds before you ate your own lightsaber.


More on topic, It's a tough bout for either side, though I'm inclined to side with the Jedi. Kas'im is a beast for sure, but so's Katarn and Kenobi's no slouch. Kaox was among the best of a fairly iffy era of sith. I mean, the most competent among the sith at the time were both Ex-Jedi after all.

Kyle versus Kas'im would be epic, but I'm not seeing Krul taking down Kenobi.

Whoa, alliteration. Advent totally did that on purpose.

haha, I figured that out before you.

The darkie wins this round!

Originally posted by Faunus
Kyle versus Kas'im would be epic, but I'm not seeing Krul taking down Kenobi.

Whoa, alliteration. Advent totally did that on purpose.

Kenobi has a horrible record in duels. He gets beaten badly by Maul, Dooku twice, Ventress twice (right?), and only defeats Anakin because 1) he's sparred against him hundreds of times, 2) he was fighting smart and giving ground, slowly tiring Anakin out, and 3) Anakin is stupid and waaay overconfident.

Krul is extremely aggressive like Anakin is. And he's fast enough to chase down a full-throttle speeder on foot, so I assume he'd be able to blitz Kenobi pretty well and put him on the defensive. Moreover, going from the acrobatic moves and flips he uses, Krul probably practices either Ataru or Juyo - and Sorseu isn't well suited to either.

Anakin's Djem So consisted of constantly attacking Kenobi with powerful frontal strikes and not letting up, which plays into Sorseu because all Kenobi has to do is move his blade around a bit in front of him. If Krul used Ataru or Juyo, he's going to be leaping around all over the place and Kenobi is going to have to defend 270 degrees around. Added to that, with all the elbows and kicks Krul used, it's likely he mixes somekind of martial arts into his style. And if he uses Juyo, he'd be a high end master of multiple forms, who's probably utterly familiar with Kenobi's style. In addition, the novelization said Anakin was tiring and that was Kenobi's intention. Krul's fight lasted for hours on end, with the Jedi knowing she was not going to be able to win. She gives into the Dark Side to draw on the strength he was drawing on, making her stronger - and she realizes it still isn't enough and his win is still inevitable. The only way she ends up killing him is by sacrificing herself - he goes high and instead of parrying, she goes low at the same time. Moreover, he's got Sith armor which protects him from most Jedi attacks (Force Push? I think that's neutral).

Again, Kenobi isn't a duelist. And he doesn't like to fight. Krul is a born and borderline psychopathic killer who has over 100 Jedi kills to his credit. I think he beats Kenobi. Or at the very least, keeps him busy until Kas'im kills Katarn.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Kenobi has a horrible record in duels. He gets beaten badly by Maul, Dooku twice, Ventress twice (right?), and only defeats Anakin because 1) he's sparred against him hundreds of times, 2) he was fighting smart and giving ground, slowly tiring Anakin out, and 3) Anakin is stupid and waaay overconfident.
You mean he's beaten by two of the best duelists who ever lived? And last record, he beats Ventress in Clone Wars.
He also beat Grievous and is considered the best Soresu master

That speed throws him totally off balance when he tries to attack and renders him unconcious for a few hours. Kenobi is able to block an attack that seems to be from twenty sabers. Simultaneously

He can handle an attack from every angle and keep up with Ventress at his best and she's just as acrobatic

Grievous again. And Krul can only strike from one place at once

Not anything that didn't come into play from Maul's integration of Teras Kasi, or Grievous physical assaults. Or his fight with Anakin

Why would a Sith bother with Soresu? Defense isn't something Juyo excels at...it aims for savage offense to wear the opponent down and kill quick. And this is 'if.' flips and acrobatics indicate Ataro

Alchemical armor doesn't prevented Kenobi from affecting the environment. Obi-wan took on and was superior to General Grievous of all people. Obi-wan is someone capable of drawing on energy and fighting almost tirelessly. And this is only until his partner runs in to help him.


Despite this, Kenobi beat a psychopathic killer with well over a hundred Jedi kills to his credit.

And this is assuming Kas'im will kill Kyle. Kyle is just as capable of killing him.

Doesn't he lose to her several times before that, though? Also, he beat a weakened and crippled Grievous. Since it took Mace to beat a healthy Grievous, I doubt Kenobi could have done similar. Besides that, GG doesn't have any defense against the Force. Any skilled Jedi should have been able to put him down - especially one who is on the Jedi High Council.



No, he got careless and lost his balance. Something about paying more attention to the swing than to the ground. He's made the mistake once. Its doubtful he'd make it again. Furthermore, he uses similar speed to blitz Dree. I know she's a padawon and that makes it somewhat of a poor example, but nevertheless it should be enough to throw Kenobi into a defensive stance and seize the initiative.

Also, does GG still have 20 strikes per second in his injured state, or is that only before Mace Force Crushes him?



Ah, yes...but can she levitate?



And how'd he fare against Maul?



Kas'im knew it. To even know Juyo you have to first be a master of multiple lower forms. One could safely assume that Soresu would be a staple, given its pure devotion to defense....But, again, if he's using Juyo or Ataru, those are offensively based - combined with Krul's speed and Kenobi is going to be backpeddling and twisting from every angle in attempt to fend off his blows.



His armor is lightsaber resistant, though. And again, GG was weakened and definitely not up to par. Anakin could've killed him too, and so could have probably at least half of the Council.... Besides Ki-Adi-Mundi - 'cause he sucks.

Also...what's that about Obi-Wan? I didn't know that. Positive on this?



Naw. You need to let go of your Path of Destruction hate.

Originally posted by Enyalus


Doesn't he lose to her several times before that, though? Also, he beat a weakened and crippled Grievous. Since it took Mace to beat a healthy Grievous, I doubt Kenobi could have done similar. Besides that, GG doesn't have any defense against the Force. Any skilled Jedi should have been able to put him down - especially one who is on the Jedi High Council.
He gets better. The points where Ventress bests him? Obi-wan tends to be barely able to even stand beforehand.

And according to Mace, Kenobi is the one who is better equipped to fight Grievous than any Jedi. Himself included. If would have taken 'any' skilled Jedi, then the NUMEROUS skilled Jedi he butchered would have done it


So he gets all retroactive knowledge? He had to transfer all this into RUNNING speed and overbalanced. He 'blitzes' Dree-a PADAWAN- and flips behind her to kill her.
And unlike Kree, Kenobi is used to fighting versatile, acrobatic opponents

Injured.



Considering levitation is a padawan exercise...



You mean when he was a Padawan who hadn't even started specializing in Soresu yet?


Kas'im didn't specialize in Juyo, he just knew every form. The same can't be said of Krul

Which he's done from Grievous and Ventress, who wield more sabers than Krul and both can be seen as faster.
To Obi-wan? 'Blocking 20 strikes in less than a second was no longer impossible. Just difficult.'
And since when isn't Kenobi fast? He keeps ahead of Ventress and Durge, people capable of speedblitzing experienced Jedi Masters. He was considered the finest master of Soresu in histor.y..Soresu focuses on covering EVERY angle. Not just your front



Then how did Maru kill him? She didn't go for the head.

That 'not up to part' Grievous was described as being capable of killing almost any Jedi and could strike with twenty strikes a second. That's possibly weakened.

anakin COULD have. Obi-wan nearly kills Anain at several points, too.

Again, ultimate master of Soresu


Kas'im's trump cards don't worry on Kyle, who's cut down swarms of DBL and Jar'Kai users. Kyle is a battlemaster and Jacen considered him one of the only Jedi who could be a threat.

Kas'im's terrific, but he relies a lot on his Jar'Kai being able to give him an edge at the end.

And Kyle used a previously unseen Dark Side attack to kill Boc Aseca, too. (Spear of Midnight Black), and Kyle's really, really strong in the Force...heck, he also knows sever Force.

Kyle's got a shot. It's a good one.

Did somebody just refer to General Grievous as a second rate assassin? For the record, my children, both times that Obi-Wan Kenobi faced General Grievous, he was in a state of living Force. See the novelization for the incredible details, but the General is established as one of the greatest Jedi killers and duelists in the prequel trilogy, even without the assistance of Force energies and sensitivity.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He gets better.So does Ventress.

Not true. She knocks him on his back in seconds immediately after taking out Kit Fisto, and would've killed him if the Nautolan hadn't collapsed the dock.

Which is BS, because Mace has already gotten the best of Grievous - three sources show it happening, one in a brief duel in LoE, the Force-crush in CWC, and the STAP-to-the-head in Obsession.

As it was, Dooku told Grievous he would be endangered if he were to face any of the Council members or Cin Drallig.

Was this ever canonically stated?

Only against Bane. You could count on your hands the number of individuals who have his level of familiarity with the dueling forms.

Kas'im withstood a Force-attack that demolished a building. Kyle, in JA, got thrown into a pillar by Tavion. Of course, he then proceeds to hold up the collapsed ceiling of a building, so I suppose he was taken by surprise.

I agree. However, considering Kyle has had zero formal lightsaber training and has never faced someone with an even remotely comparable technical mastery of the blade, Kas'im could most definitely pull of a win. I'm slightly more inclined to give it to him, really.

Originally posted by Faunus
So does Ventress.

Not true. She knocks him on his back in seconds immediately after taking out Kit Fisto, and would've killed him if the Nautolan hadn't collapsed the dock.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Obi-wan win the duel in Clone War? No idea about timeframe.
He also holds his own in Dreadnoughts of Rendili and when he escapes her fortress

just saying what Mace said...of course, Mace's humility need be taken into account

Was it before or after there Grievous bested two council members at once? And kill-wise, he pretty soundly beat Adi Gallia

Ok, history of the JEDI to be fair

Good point here, actually. Still, Obi-wan's pretty darned experienced himself and he's faced a fair few Dark Jedi...he's a king of Soresu, knows Djem so very well, knows Ataro, has some basic elements of Shii-cho and Niman...and after Maul, I've little doubt he'd have made sure to know how to fight a Juyo user. While Obi-wan's certainly not versed in forms as Bane is, I'd say he knows them well enough and his Soresu is great enough to give him incredible defense

Didn't she use Ragnos's scepter, too? And Kyle's force abilities aren't much to scoff at given how quickly he learns and how he knows sever Force

I'm pretty sure with the discovery of the Tedryn Holocron and the rediscovery of the classic forms, Kyle'd have knowledge of them at least and has the experience tested in battle. Jacen considered him one of the few Jedi who could be a threat to him in a battle.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Obi-wan win the duel in Clone War? No idea about timeframe.
He also holds his own in Dreadnoughts of Rendili and when he escapes her fortressThey go back and forth - Kenobi always manages to survive, run away, or somehow prevail. And I believe he wins in the new "movie," but it's close.

My mistake.

Grievous was told that, if were to lose any of three critical elements - fear, surprise, and intimidation - he would do best to flee. You'll recall that when he took down the Jedi on Hypori, they were all exhausted and mostly scared shitless. Starting the fight by driving Ki-Adi's apprentice into the ground helped, too.

Again, where is this stated? I know Mace believes him to be the quintessential Jedi Master and "the" master of the form, but I don't recall Kenobi ever being noted to be the greatest in history.

All true, and naturally I don't see Kas'im simply walking through him or anything of the sort - a battle between those two would be long and awesome.

She used Jaden's lightsaber to break a wall and escape, and used the scepter to bring down the ceiling, but she Force-pushed him with her hand. It's possible that she was getting that dark side "high" from Vjun, though.

Still, being "familiar" with them and facing down the ultimate master of all of them are two very different things.

Originally posted by Faunus
They go back and forth - Kenobi always manages to survive, run away, or somehow prevail. And I believe he wins in the new "movie," but it's close.
So kinda varies.

Well, on Boz Pity, there wasn't any element of surprise when Adi charged him...and he frequently kills Jedi who're well aware of him, like T'Chooka Doon

I'm pretty sure a visual dictionary notes him as one of the finest duelists in Order in history...and Mace says he's THE Master of Soresu...aside from that, I'll give a look see

hoo yeah

Or she'd been doping up from the scepter...considering Kyle'd stomped her before.

True, but Kyle's unorthodox skill works a favor against Kas'im, too. Kyle ain't battlemaster for nothing.

After hours of battling, the armor started to give and come apart in places.

Mace calls Obi-Wan "THE master of soresu" in ROTS novelization. specifically, he says "not a master, THE master"
makes it sounds like the best at it...

Damn I'm tired of the EU ruining this era.

The most powerful Jedi in history. The potentially most powerful Force user in history. The most powerful Sith Lord in history. The greatest lightsaber form in history. The greatest Soresu master in history. The deadliest Sith apprentice in history.

Please, Gideon, Lightsnake, someone...tell me I haven't left anything out.

Alive? Duh. In history, even amongst the Jedi? Completely unsubstantiated.

How is EU ruining the era?

I agree completely with the pt pwning at almost everything.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
How is EU ruining the era?

I agree completely with the pt pwning at almost everything.

Consider - without the EU, we wouldn't know they were the best and greatest at everything, and we could go on living our lives in ignorance and having logical debates based purely on feats and showing instead of resorting to, "Lucas says it. Canon. The end." Gheyness.

Look, for all of those EU purists, the PT and OT started it all. I'mma gonna make this plain. The UVG refers to the original trilogy as "the most crucial time for the Jedi Order." It's simple fact. The stories of the Skywalkers, Palpatine, and Kenobi? That's what matters. The rest is just a distant, distant, distant second. That's why it's lauded more than any other era, and rightly so.

Originally posted by Gideon
Look, for all of those EU purists, the PT and OT started it all. I'mma gonna make this plain. The UVG refers to the original trilogy as "the most crucial time for the Jedi Order." It's simple fact. The stories of the Skywalkers, Palpatine, and Kenobi? That's what matters. The rest is just a distant, distant, distant second. That's why it's lauded more than any other era, and rightly so.

I don't mind having Palpatine the most powerful. Or Anakin the Chosen One....I do think it's completely stupid that his son has the same potential as he did. You'd think the genes would either be watered down, or Padme's part in the whole thing would've given Luke a higher potential.

The rest "best this, best that...." It's over the top.

His son doesn't have "the same potential." Just the potential to surpass the Emperor. The reason that most of the EU focuses and lauds the movies is because the authors and community, like Ush and REX have made clear, recognize that the OT and PT is where the story is. There's a reason that the Battle of Yavin is even considered their zero mark; everything else is mere extention from the movies. Movies, its characters, and their stories matter more than Darth friggin Bane or Marka Ragnos or Darth Revan or the Yuuzhan Vong or whatever. And I agree: it's the way it should be. Hence why movies are at the top of the LFL foodchain regarding canon and ect.

I thought Lucas saying that Luke is what Anakin could've been was him basically equating their potential.

My comprehension skills get lower by the day. Heh.

He did say that Luke is what Anakin could've been, so...

Originally posted by Faunus
He did say that Luke is what Anakin could've been, so...

Not possible. Whatever Gideon says = canon. I'm fairly certain he has a telepathic link to Lucas himself.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Damn I'm tired of the EU ruining this era.

The most powerful Jedi in history. The potentially most powerful Force user in history. The most powerful Sith Lord in history. The greatest lightsaber form in history. The greatest Soresu master in history. The deadliest Sith apprentice in history.

Please, Gideon, Lightsnake, someone...tell me I haven't left anything out.

you realize.... without the EU, you wouldn't have anyone to compare these guys too? then they would obviously be the most, the greatest, and the best at everything?

Originally posted by truejedi
you realize.... without the EU, you wouldn't have anyone to compare these guys too? then they would obviously be the most, the greatest, and the best at everything?

Ick. TJ's logic owning mine. I'm retiring.

I am Lucas, really. The fat guy in flannel who acts like a 'tard? That would be Faunus.

Originally posted by Faunus
He did say that Luke is what Anakin could've been, so...

...As in "more powerful than the Emperor." When Advent kicks the holy **** out of you for contesting this point, I'mma gonna laugh.

Stop saying "I'mma," and chill thyself. I know you and half the other people here have an ungodly orgasm at the thought of talking to a girl online, but please. Have some control, for the love of God.

FYI, I don't wear flannel. That's actually Crimzon in disguise, and that giant thing swelling up in his neck is the indigestible Gideon, whom Crimzon tried desperately to eat in a fit of starving rage.

Originally posted by Faunus
Stop saying "I'mma," and chill thyself. I know you and half the other people here have an ungodly orgasm at the thought of talking to a girl online, but please. Have some control, for the love of God.

This is Kentucky. Most of the guys here are related to all the girls they speak to.



Hush, now, Faunus. Half of the Antedivulians have been exposed as lunatics and sycophants. Traya's a man, so you must clearly have your own issues.

Says the illiterate, interbred redneck with the blonde wig (rockin').

I had an issue, which I dealt with and pwned into the ground.

Originally posted by Faunus
Says the illiterate, interbred redneck with the blonde wig (rockin').

I had an issue, which I dealt with and pwned into the ground.

So the operation went successful, then?

And as for the wig, don't go there, man. It's a low blow. I had to do it.

Ha, operation, funny. And pretty accurate, although it was probably a little more serious than I would've liked.

And please, don't try and pretend that you don't put on the wig and start dancing an singing to KC and the Sunshine Band. Why one would post a moment of utter humiliation on the internet is beyond me, and why you would expect me not to drill you about it is even more preposterous.

Originally posted by Faunus
Ha, operation, funny. And pretty accurate, although it was probably a little more serious than I would've liked.

Serious? No, not really. I guess I could understand. Having such a fascination with vaginas, yet realizing your one and only opportunity of being close to one was when you slid out of your mother's, you simply decided to have one placed on you.

I don't judge.

And please, don't try and pretend that you don't put on the wig and start dancing an singing to KC and the Sunshine Band. Why one would post a moment of utter humiliation on the internet is beyond me, and why you would expect me not to drill you about it is even more preposterous.

I didn't put it on the internet! Luke Wetton did. And it was DEF LEPPARD, *******.

Originally posted by Faunus
Says the illiterate, interbred redneck with the blonde wig (rockin').

I had an issue, which I dealt with and pwned into the ground.

I have issues. Cannibalism issues...

It's cool, though. I ate the shrink.

Edit: Enyalus told you about the flannel, right? Imonna annihilate his existence.

Serious? No, not really. I guess I could understand. Having such a fascination with vaginas, yet realizing your one and only opportunity of being close to one was when you slid out of your mother's, you simply decided to have one placed on you.

I don't judge.You can't have a vagina placed on you. But then again, I guess in Kentucky there's no such thing as a vagina, there's a flower covered by a chastity belt with a seven hundred and sixty-four-part combination.

And speaking of mothers, how's yours? I heard Blax did mean things to her last week. Heard her screaming all the way over from New York, poor thing.

Suuuure. "Luke Wetton." Cuz he's real.

Pfft...Crimzon, you're at least three tiers below me in power. At least.

Originally posted by Faunus
You can't have a vagina placed on you. But then again, I guess in Kentucky there's no such thing as a vagina, there's a flower covered by a chastity belt with a seven hundred and sixty-four-part combination.

And speaking of mothers, how's yours? I heard Blax did mean things to her last week. Heard her screaming all the way over from New York, poor thing.

Suuuure. "Luke Wetton." Cuz he's real.

Erm, not your best, dude.

You're not your best. *doh*

Give up. You can't handle this.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Consider - without the EU, we wouldn't know they were the best and greatest at everything, and we could go on living our lives in ignorance and having logical debates based purely on feats and showing instead of resorting to, "Lucas says it. Canon. The end." Gheyness.

Without EU there would be no comics and novels or games and all we'd have is the movies... and all PT jedi would automatically > OT Jedi because the OT was full of slow-mo fights.

edit- beaten tp it.

Originally posted by Faunus


And speaking of mothers, how's yours? I heard Blax did mean things to her last week. Heard her screaming all the way over from New York, poor thing.
.

Reported. This is a PG-13 forum, sir.

Yeah, well...It would've been cool to think that Mech Vader > everyone else. Because out of the PT and OT era, he's definitely the coolest.

I used to love the Emperor. TPM, AOTC, ANH, ESB, and ROTJ...I mean, I got Dark Empire for, I think, my 7th birthday or something, and that was even okay.

And then...and then, they had to effing make ROTS. Which was the best of the PT trilogy I think, but...They absolutely ruined Sidious' image in it. He became so lame. Just about every single thing he did after revealing he was the Dark Lord was gay.

I was so sad. And hence my passionate hatred of him in this subforum.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Pfft...Crimzon, you're at least three tiers below me in power. At least.

Shaddap. *shoots Enyalus*

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Shaddap. *shoots Enyalus*

*deflects the bullets with Wonder Woman's magic bracers*

Kas'im could solo this...