Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

no flame, no beams, no powers. bare-fists. no environmental interferences.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/jimh.jpg
VS.
http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k358/a_poet_of_sorts/Cyclops.jpg

here are some feats of hammond's fighting skill.i know most probably need some examples to go by:


takes an opponent with a knife even disorientated by gas:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/10.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/11.jpg

takes an armed man(he flamed his elbow, but that's pretty insignificant):
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/humantorch03-16.jpg

takes another armed man no flame:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/humantorch1236.jpg

takes a police officer and an army official h2h, both are armed:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/MarvelMystery23p09.jpg

puts two men down with unflamed one fist:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/HumanTorch_10_pg12.jpg

takes out a sizable group of thugs with weapons h2h.dodges close range gunfire:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/wca083-04.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/wca083-05.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/wca083-06.jpg

Scott

i've heard that scott was a pretty good h2h combatant, but i've never seen any real examples.

Scott

ok? maybe something to go by. like a feat or two. maybe?

i'm pretty sure hammond is stronger than cyke. and he's super-durable without his flame. he's been trained by steve rogers as well. he probably was modeled after a prime human specimen, or peak human, seeing as he always seemed to have a natural edge against any h2h opponent, even before he was trained by cap.

Scott

i went to cyke's thread for respect and what not.saw 1 or 2 h2h feats, but he was using his beams along with it, so i don't know if that counts.

here's some impressive hammond feats,keep in mind he has no superhuman strength:

jim makes wonder man's head turn with a hook, although he is flaming, that doesn't affect his striking power:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/AvengersInvanders-008.jpg

jim knocks down Thena, the eternal, with a hook. he's not flaming:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/HeroesForHire12p23.jpg




here are thena's powers(besides immortality):
Superhuman speed, strength, durability, and healing
Energy blasts
Flight
Illusion generation
Matter transmutation
Mind control
Telekinesis
Telepathy
Teleportation

Lolz. Wonder Man was fine. He just turned his head and broke his glasses.

With that said, Scott wins.

Sure are on a Jim Hammond kick lately, aren't ya?

Cyclops knows Judo. I think he has a few other styles. He is a great thinker. He can adapt and learn your style and predict some of your movements. He is able to dodge the likes of wolverine and topple colossus with Judo.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Lolz. Wonder Man was fine. He just turned his head and broke his glasses.

With that said, Scott wins.

Sure are on a Jim Hammond kick lately, aren't ya? who ever said wonder man was hurt? like a said jim has human limitations, he can't hurt wonder man, but it was the fact that he engaged him h2h and was fast enough to strike him although he has enhanced reflexes.

hammond wins.scott is more skilled, but not far more skilled.......not at all. it's not like cap just gave jim a few pointers here and there. he was with cap for years. besides that he has at least 4 decades of combat experience. jim is also physically superior to cyke, not to mention he's super durable and has demostrated a healing factor before.
the skill gap isn't nearly enough here to make up for all that. besides that, cyke doesn't have the feats. the most impressive feat i've ever seen from cyke was taking a few unarmed thugs with his eyes closed.jim has done something similar, except he was blinded, disorientated, and nausceous from gas..........and the guys had weapons.

the feat with wolverine vs cyke is shaky. that fight was extremely circumstancial.

besides, thena is faster and far more durable than wolvie, and jim managed to hook her pretty good........not to mention enduring her slamming him hard into a wall with telekenesis......without any signs of injury or a KO.

when you see an unknown vs a fan fav in a thread, you might want to consider the feats/stats thrown out there for you, instead of picking the one you are most familiar with.

hammond FTW

Cyclops took on the entire X-Team with broken ribs and used very little powers, got slapped by a sentinel and didn't get ko'd. I'm really starting to think that you made this thread just to have Jim beat someone. Why would you put someone who has superhuman durability against someone who is said to have only human durability in a H2H fight? Also just because you hit someone doesn't necessarily mean you're fast enough to hit him. If the guy knows its not going to hurt him then whats the point in dodging? Its like Juggernaut trying to dodge a full-powered optic blast. Whats the point? Cyclops trains his body and keeps it in perfect conditioning every day.

Cyke.
He is a trained MArtist and can take 5 guys down blind folded (I think it's in his respect thread)

Originally posted by comicfan11
Cyke.
He is a trained MArtist and can take 5 guys down blind folded (I think it's in his respect thread) i saw that. hammond has a similar feat, in which he takes down a few guys blinded, and disorientated from gas.......and the guys have weapons

why are you pitting someone with superhuman durability against someone without it?

Originally posted by namorsubby
when you see an unknown vs a fan fav in a thread, you might want to consider the feats/stats thrown out there for you, instead of picking the one you are most familiar with.

hammond FTW

Please. Don't refer to me to as some newbie who's never picked up a comic book. I personally love choosing an unknown...IF they deserve to/can actually win.

In this case, he doesn't/can't.

It still seems like its unfair. He pitted a guy with super durability against a guy with human durability in straight H2H. WTF? Wouldn't it be more balanced if he was fighting Deadpool, Rogers, Wolverine?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
It still seems like its unfair. He pitted a guy with super durability against a guy with human durability in straight H2H. WTF? Wouldn't it be more balanced if he was fighting Deadpool, Rogers, Wolverine?

Yes. Yes it would.

* i gotta feeling he likes Cyclops very much

* c'mon man, Cyclops is not a fan favorite like Wolverine, Batman, Superman, Spider-man, etc... in fact, he is one of the most underrated Marvel characters, Whedon even sees him as a team washout for several years...

* Cyclops seemed to be popular and gaining lot of supporters is because out of respect... not fanboyism...

* no feats? comics showed Scott kicked asses of 5-6 thugs eyes closed incorporating fighting styles of his teammates... he is an Aikido & Judo expert, engages extensive traning exercises of normal men...

* pitting Scott against "unknown" with super-durability is still a spite

I agree. I will even admit that I grew up hating Cyclops as a kid. The 90s cartoon just put Wolverine in my face so much I just learned to like him and hate Cyclops. It was feats and comics that made me respect him later on and realize that Wolverine wasn't all that great, just overhyped.

lol. see, you guys need to learn a bit more about this "unknown" before you go assuming i made a one sided match.


jim hammond has super-durablity.......true. but jim hammond also can be KOed by a human. there's no way cyke could "harm" hammond at all........as in cause him any real damage, but KO him, sure.hammond has a way of sustaining superficial damage that makes him appear more human.he can be KOed by human effort.......yes.but he could also be KOed hard by someone who could easily kill a human with the slightest tap.......like namor, and he'd be KOed, but not in any real danger of dying, or harm to his android body. you get what i'm saying?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Please. Don't refer to me to as some newbie who's never picked up a comic book. I personally love choosing an unknown...IF they deserve to/can actually win.

In this case, he doesn't/can't. i really don't think you're in much of a position to say what hammond can and can't do. what do you know about him besides what i have so graciouly provided for you.besides that, first you say he can't win, then you say that the match is unfair, which means you're saying he can. make up your mind already.


this is in no way a one-sided match.in fact, i think cyke could take a few out of 10, but when it comes down to it, physical superioty plays a part in any encounter, despite how skilled a person is.

cyke is more skilled than hammond. not denying that at all, but hammond is by far no slouch. his h2h mentor should convince you of that. cyke may outclass him in h2h, but cyke is physically outmatched. hammond is a compact 300 pounder. he tosses thugs around like ragdolls, even before he had a day of training in h2h. he naturally had the edge against any normal human being. he's dodged gunfire and easily disabled men with guns h2h.he's stronger than cyke and he's faster than cyke, but he's still within the limitations of what is humanly possible, concerning speed and strength. now durablity is another thing. i've already explained how hammond's durablity works, he can't sustain any "life" threatening damage from cyke by any means of the physical, but he can be KOed by a human, that's been proven more than once.

jim hammond has the edge simply because he's physically superior and things like breaking his ribs of something with a kick are out of the question.cyke has the skill advantage here, but i honestly don't think the skill gap can compensate for all that.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i gotta feeling he likes Cyclops very much

* c'mon man, Cyclops is not a fan favorite like Wolverine, Batman, Superman, Spider-man, etc... in fact, he is one of the most underrated Marvel characters, Whedon even sees him as a team washout for several years...

* Cyclops seemed to be popular and gaining lot of supporters is because out of respect... not fanboyism...

* no feats? comics showed Scott kicked asses of 5-6 thugs eyes closed incorporating fighting styles of his teammates... he is an Aikido & Judo expert, engages extensive traning exercises of normal men...

* pitting Scott against "unknown" with super-durability is still a spite you guys have to learn to read the information put out there for you. it is in no way impossible for cyke to KO hammond, even though he is super-durable. i believe i explained it before you even posted, but i explained again in more detail just 2 posts back.......even if i didn't before, the info is readily available to anyone willing to take the time to learn about a character they're considering in a vs topic.

again, learn to read the posts. i saw cyke's fight with the thugs blind a long time ago, i explained that hammond had a similar feat, but more impressive. the thugs he took on were armed with various weapons, and he was blinded and disorientated by gas.

i find it hilarious how some are calling this match one sided and unfairly made in hammond's favor..........but all the votes have still have gone to cyclops...........and i'm the one operating based on favortism?

i guess some might wanna examine themselves before they choose to assume someone is be biased and doing things based on favortism

Originally posted by namorsubby
lol. see, you guys need to learn a bit more about this "unknown" before you go assuming i made a one sided match.


jim hammond has super-durablity.......true. but jim hammond also can be KOed by a human. there's no way cyke could "harm" hammond at all........as in cause him any real damage, but KO him, sure.hammond has a way of sustaining superficial damage that makes him appear more human.he can be KOed by human effort.......yes.but he could also be KOed hard by someone who could easily kill a human with the slightest tap.......like namor, and he'd be KOed, but not in any real danger of dying, or harm to his android body. you get what i'm saying?

...

So, you basically admitted creating a very one-sided spite thread? Nice job.

Oh, and I did make up my mind, I never flip-flopped. I understood that Jim has superhuman durability, but still gave the fight to Cyclops, even in this obviously-biased match up. Why, you ask? Because regardless of Jim's durability (by the way, can you show some proof of this?), Cyke has the necessary skill to put him down. This is also despite this superhuman strength (proof again, please)? I've just looked through your entire respect thread and still haven't found anything that would considered superhuman strength/durability when NOT ignited. In fact, you even state in your own respect thread that Jim was human resistance when not ignited.

Also, Samson the strong man (in your respect thread) was handing it to Jim until Jim ignited himself, which then gave him the arguable win in that fight. And if Samson could do it, Cyke could just as well. And not one of those scans showed me anything that would come close to equating to Cyke's skills. He's a brawler and there's nothing wrong with that. But it just won't cut it against Cyke's refined skill.

I mean no disrespect towards Jim. I've always liked him myself, though I admit that I didn't read too much of his stuff. You've put together a great respect thread, too, one that will definitely be praised for some time.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...

So, you basically admitted creating a very one-sided spite thread? Nice job.

Oh, and I did make up my mind, I never flip-flopped. I understood that Jim has superhuman durability, but still gave the fight to Cyclops, even in this obviously-biased match up. Why, you ask? Because regardless of Jim's durability (by the way, can you show some proof of this?), Cyke has the necessary skill to put him down. This is also despite this superhuman strength (proof again, please)? I've just looked through your entire respect thread and still haven't found anything that would considered superhuman strength/durability when NOT ignited. In fact, you even state in your own respect thread that Jim was human resistance when not ignited.

Also, Samson the strong man (in your respect thread) was handing it to Jim until Jim ignited himself, which then gave him the arguable win in that fight. And if Samson could do it, Cyke could just as well. And not one of those scans showed me anything that would come close to equating to Cyke's skills. He's a brawler and there's nothing wrong with that. But it just won't cut it against Cyke's refined skill.

I mean no disrespect towards Jim. I've always liked him myself, though I admit that I didn't read too much of his stuff. You've put together a great respect thread, too, one that will definitely be praised for some time. where did i admit to creating a one-sided thread? i said that others assumed i was, and was implying that i was biased for it, but then they turn around and vote cyke anyway, which is extremely hypocritical.


you didn't see the part where thena telekentically slamed him against a wall and he wasn't Koed or harmed? or the time he was shot up and then fine right after?

superficial damage that makes him seem more human, that what jim hammond sustains. his body is identical to the vision's, there's no way cyke could physically cause any harm to his android body.....as in fatal harm or even any internal harm at all.but like i stated in the thread, he sometimes seems to have human resistance, but only due to the fact that he was made to be a synthetic, and mimic human limitations.

my quote exactly from my thread:

"while not ignited,he seems to have regular human resistance(not always)."

he's never been truly injured by any human though, just KOed(goes along with the sustaining superficial damage thing).if he had truly only had human resistance, then thena wouldn't splattered him all over that wall.

that fight with samson was before torch ever laid eyes on captain america. before he had any training at all. and when he was early in his career.and he still gave the strong man a run in a h2h fight i didn't post......i didn't post it because he lost, but he faired very well before he even had over 4 decades of combat experience and training from steve rogers like he does now.oh, and that was the only straight-up h2h bout he ever lost.

i don't think this is an easy win for anybody, so i obviously didn't make a one-sided match.plus idk how i can make a one-sided match that the other opponent according to you wins in the first place????

anyway i think jim takes the majority, because he's had far more experience, he's been trained by marvel's virtual best, he has superhuman endurance(with distinct limitations), and he's physically superior to cyke. the gap in skill here really isn't enough to compensate for all jim's advantages. i really don't believe the gap is that big anyway. he's had training from cap and a few decades to home his acquired skill.

oh, and all those golden age h2h encounters you were looking at were before he had any training. there's not one fighter out there who can claim to be such a good natural fighter. it's uncanny. thugs with guns were no match, even before he was "refined".

now he has training and more years of experience than scott has years of life. he was always a brawler, better than any natural brawler, but now he's a skilled and experienced fighter taught by captain america himself. those scans were decades before now, and he still had feats comparable to cyke's, even when he was a "brawler".

the most impressive h2h feat i've ever seen from cyke is the blinded 6 guy feat thing, jim hammond has done things similar. he's taken guys blinded and disorientated from gas.......when the guys had weapons.

edit:


oh, and thanks.not so sure about that second part though.

proof.........from my thread. straight from the androids mouth:

"i could hardly forget that you homo sapiens are a lot more fragile than us androids"

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Invaders001-20.jpg

Originally posted by namorsubby
you guys have to learn to read the information put out there for you. it is in no way impossible for cyke to KO hammond, even though he is super-durable. i believe i explained it before you even posted, but i explained again in more detail just 2 posts back.......even if i didn't before, the info is readily available to anyone willing to take the time to learn about a character they're considering in a vs topic.

again, learn to read the posts. i saw cyke's fight with the thugs blind a long time ago, i explained that hammond had a similar feat, but more impressive. the thugs he took on were armed with various weapons, and he was blinded and disorientated by gas.

* how in the blue hell can't this be a spite thread? you pit one regular character against another with super-durability? moreso, in H2H? are you freakin' insane?

* in the interest of fairness, why don't you tell us how can Scott KO Jim, and you would get the result you need,

you're apparently writing, so i assume you're not illiterate:









learn how to read the posts.oh, and i guess i'll go ahead and quote this too:

Originally posted by namorsubby
you're apparently writing, so i assume you're not illiterate:

* same as you are, pal, same as you are...

Originally posted by namorsubby
ok? maybe something to go by. like a feat or two. maybe?

i'm pretty sure hammond is stronger than cyke. and he's super-durable without his flame. he's been trained by steve rogers as well. he probably was modeled after a prime human specimen, or peak human, seeing as he always seemed to have a natural edge against any h2h opponent, even before he was trained by cap.

* i'm sure you know the difference between "durable" and "super-durable"...

Originally posted by namorsubby
who ever said wonder man was hurt? like a said jim has human limitations, he can't hurt wonder man, but it was the fact that he engaged him h2h and was fast enough to strike him although he has enhanced reflexes.

hammond wins.scott is more skilled, but not far more skilled.......not at all. it's not like cap just gave jim a few pointers here and there. he was with cap for years. besides that he has at least 4 decades of combat experience. jim is also physically superior to cyke, not to mention he's super durable and has demostrated a healing factor before.
the skill gap isn't nearly enough here to make up for all that. besides that, cyke doesn't have the feats. the most impressive feat i've ever seen from cyke was taking a few unarmed thugs with his eyes closed.jim has done something similar, except he was blinded, disorientated, and nausceous from gas..........and the guys had weapons.

the feat with wolverine vs cyke is shaky. that fight was extremely circumstancial.

besides, thena is faster and far more durable than wolvie, and jim managed to hook her pretty good........not to mention enduring her slamming him hard into a wall with telekenesis......without any signs of injury or a KO.

when you see an unknown vs a fan fav in a thread, you might want to consider the feats/stats thrown out there for you, instead of picking the one you are most familiar with.

hammond FTW

* yeah, as sure as you say "hammond FTW", this really is a spite... H2H battle: Cyke versus someone who has super-durability & healing factor...

Originally posted by namorsubby
lol. see, you guys need to learn a bit more about this "unknown" before you go assuming i made a one sided match.

jim hammond has super-durablity.......true. but jim hammond also can be KOed by a human. there's no way cyke could "harm" hammond at all........as in cause him any real damage, but KO him, sure.hammond has a way of sustaining superficial damage that makes him appear more human.he can be KOed by human effort.......yes.but he could also be KOed hard by someone who could easily kill a human with the slightest tap.......like namor, and he'd be KOed, but not in any real danger of dying, or harm to his android body. you get what i'm saying?

* yeah, sure, i get it... you pit your favorite character against someone not in his level (no super-durability, no healing factor) and say "hammond FTW"... what can i say? hurray?

Originally posted by namorsubby
i really don't think you're in much of a position to say what hammond can and can't do. what do you know about him besides what i have so graciouly provided for you.besides that, first you say he can't win, then you say that the match is unfair, which means you're saying he can. make up your mind already.

this is in no way a one-sided match.in fact, i think cyke could take a few out of 10, but when it comes down to it, physical superioty plays a part in any encounter, despite how skilled a person is.

cyke is more skilled than hammond. not denying that at all, but hammond is by far no slouch. his h2h mentor should convince you of that. cyke may outclass him in h2h, but cyke is physically outmatched. hammond is a compact 300 pounder. he tosses thugs around like ragdolls, even before he had a day of training in h2h. he naturally had the edge against any normal human being. he's dodged gunfire and easily disabled men with guns h2h.he's stronger than cyke and he's faster than cyke, but he's still within the limitations of what is humanly possible, concerning speed and strength. now durablity is another thing. i've already explained how hammond's durablity works, he can't sustain any "life" threatening damage from cyke by any means of the physical, but he can be KOed by a human, that's been proven more than once.

jim hammond has the edge simply because he's physically superior and things like breaking his ribs of something with a kick are out of the question.cyke has the skill advantage here, but i honestly don't think the skill gap can compensate for all that.

* yeah, and convince yourself that this isn't a spite thread either... and oh, the thug-tossing like ragdolls... wow...

* anyway, seriously, if you still want an honest result, i'd say Cyclops 2-3/10, Human Torch 7-8/10... peace brother!

what, no underlining the parts like "he can and has been Koed by a human" and "cyke can KO him" ?


i'd say torch around 7/10. but yeah, he's an android. they may feel pain and have the "ability" to be KOed like any other human.........but they are made a lot tougher. facts of life and what not, i suppose.


oh......and you should know that everyone's favorite character is spider-man.......then batman(you know how fond i am of him.lol)

namor and deadshot proabably take a place above jim too.sorry

* spidey & batman go interchangeably... you can also add cap & wolverine to the mix...

* how about a battle of Jim Hammond & Johnny Storm then?

So wait you're asking us if Cyclops can beat someone that is stronger, more durable, faster with a healing factor? You're asking us if he can beat someone that you said that he can't really harm. You're asking us if he can beat someone that you claims physically outmatches Cyclops in a straight H2H fight.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
So wait you're asking us if Cyclops can beat someone that is stronger, more durable, faster with a healing factor? You're asking us if he can beat someone that you said that he can't really harm. You're asking us if he can beat someone that you claims physically outmatches Cyclops in a straight H2H fight. the healing factor isn't established......it's just been displayed like 2 or 3 times.


oh, and yes, that's what i'm asking. true hammond is all of those things to cyke, but you have to remember, he's physically superior,but still within the limitations of what a human can do, refering to speed and strength. the only reason i brought up the super-durability thing was to make the argument that cyke can't disable him by inflicting internal damage and breaking ribs and what not. cyke is still completely capable of KOing him.....other people have. hammond still bleeds and bruises......but his insides are sythetic and constructed of materials cyke can't destroy.that's what i was trying to get across......but i apparently did something wrong.

i still think this would be a good match.......cyke is more trained and better skilled......although with far less experience.

Originally posted by peejayd
* spidey & batman go interchangeably... you can also add cap & wolverine to the mix...

* how about a battle of Jim Hammond & Johnny Storm then? Jim already beat him.......it's on my thread. he really felt sorry for the little guy and took it easy......seeing as he's bigger, stronger, more experienced, and plain better.


oh, and jim engages and holds his own against the likes of namor regularly.......who has given johnny and his entire "fam" a really hard time in the past.

i made this vs topic:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492209

OK wait a minute. First you say that Cyke can't really harm him but then you say Cyke can KO him. How can you KO someone that you can't really harm?

i believe i have multiple posts explaining this:







hammond is an android made to be a synthetic copy of a human. he's superdurable because despite how human-like he is......he is still made out of parts that are much more durable than any human innerworking.so yes, he bleeds, and he bruises, and he can be KOed with human effort........but this is all do to the fact that he was made to be a human, and he mimics human limitations.there's still no way to overlook the fact that he is still made of super-humanly durable material though. that is why he has super-durability.

everything changes a bit though when he ignites......i won't get into that.

That doesn't explain how someone who you claim can't really harm him can KO him. That's like saying that Jim can't really harm The Juggernaut but he can KO him, which he can't but that's a whole different topic.

*sigh*

jim hammond is a synthetic model of a human being. he mimics human limitations by bleeding, bruising, feeling pain, and being rendered unconscious when exposed to a certain amount of head truama. . he is, however, made of materials much stronger than human material. so cyke cannot hurt him internally like he could a regular human being.

Originally posted by namorsubby
*sigh*

jim hammond is a synthetic model of a human being. he mimics human limitations by bleeding, bruising, feeling pain, and being rendered unconscious when exposed to a certain amount of head truama. . he is, however, made of materials much stronger than human material. so cyke cannot hurt him internally like he could a regular human being.

example:

"can't really damage my android body, but it hurts like the dickens"

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/wca053-14.jpg

another example:

"he isn't human....even though i can hold him off, i can't hurt him"

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/FFSpecial04-11.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/FFSpecial04-12.jpg


i don't understand what's so hard to understand.

I'm gonna still say cyclops even though you stated that he is clearly outmatched here in terms of everything besides skill.

and i'll refrain from making any implications concerning that statement.......although it didn't deter others from making the same implication even though my statements were far less outright in their.........decision

Just saying that you can't overlook Scott's skill and brain. There is a lot that he can do without optic blasts.

Anyway people are probably voting for Scott because he is outmatched in this fight. Why not pit him against someone who he is even with? I don't like taking it serious when someone has so many huge advantages over them. Its like putting Spidey in a fight against Juggernaut.

i think if hammond was solely depending on his physical superiority, he'd lose. hammond may be superior, but as long as he's within the range of human ability, he could never be much more stronger or faster than cyke. scott isn't your average human either. his training may not have rendered him peak human status, but i don't think he's far from it.

and yeah, cyke has had more training and is more skilled

what i think tips it is the fact that jim hammond has been at this longer than he's been alive. and the fact he isn't untrained himself.......and he had a darn good teacher. all of that kind of just piles up with his physical advantages and puts him over FTW. but it's not like i don't think cyclops could take him a few out of 10.

i definitely don't think it's a 10/10 absolute victory for hammond.....nothing like pitting spidey against juggernaut. there's nothing spidey can do to win at all.

except for PIS like wet cement.

don't tell me spidey beat juggs in a fight.........ultilizing the prescence of wet cement?

darn it. it's getting harder and harder for me to take up for him when he has so many examples of PIS

He didn't hurt Cain at all, but he tricked him into falling in some wet cement and he got stuck there. End of issue.

* how about Cyclops wins because:

human brain >>> android brain

* how's that?

Originally posted by peejayd
* how about Cyclops wins because:

human brain >>> android brain

* how's that?

Stop trolling.

* i'm not... so please?

i'd argue that jim hammond's brain might just be a little advanced........seeing as he learned all he needed to be a well-educated human being in a couple of weeks under the ground, in cement, listening to a radio, in an inert state.......but yeah, whatever.

Originally posted by namorsubby
*sigh*

jim hammond is a synthetic model of a human being. he mimics human limitations by bleeding, bruising, feeling pain, and being rendered unconscious when exposed to a certain amount of head truama. . he is, however, made of materials much stronger than human material. so cyke cannot hurt him internally like he could a regular human being.

doh

So. Even though "supposedly" Scott can't harm him ( ), a certain amount of head trauma will render Jim unconscious. So then...why exactly can't Scott just apply an absurd amount of head trauma on Jim and KO him?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
doh

So. Even though "supposedly" Scott can't harm him ( ),


I don't know why you're slapping your forehead I get what hes saying.


Originally posted by Metalmanx

a certain amount of head trauma will render Jim unconscious.


So then...why exactly can't Scott just apply an absurd amount of head trauma on Jim and KO him?

....I don't think hes arguing that he can't do it. I think hes arguing since HT h2h abilities are very good (not as good as cykes) and because he is very durable its going to be hard for Cyke to do this.

PZ, you've done a better job explaining his reasoning in your two sentences than namorsubby has done this whole thread. Regardless, I knew what he was going for, but I wanted to see what namorsubby's response was.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
PZ, you've done a better job explaining his reasoning in your two sentences than namorsubby has done this whole thread. Regardless, I knew what he was going for, but I wanted to see what namorsubby's response was.

Ok fair enough.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
doh

So. Even though "supposedly" Scott can't harm him ( ), a certain amount of head trauma will render Jim unconscious. So then...why exactly can't Scott just apply an absurd amount of head trauma on Jim and KO him? WTF? what do you mean WHY?. i said he could. have you people seen a word i've typed?????


i've said he could KO him from the beginning..........so, yes, I SUPPOSE HE CAN.


I've tried looking at this from a different perspective, but i still can't see how anything i've said is hard to understand. you guys have to be jerking me around........if not.........then i just don't know what to say.

edit:

oh, and i say "harm" as in cause any damage that is fatal

Originally posted by Cavalier
Scott

i don't suppose you have a reason or explanation? cause you've said that like 4 times.do you have anything else to contribute?

humantorch













i've got use of this thing and i don't intend to stop using it.