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Insane reality warping duo

VS

Storm
Vulcan
Iceman
Professor X
Legion
Mister M
Jean Grey
Nate Grey
Franklin Richards
Apocalypse
Juggernaut(?)

All Omega Mutants are in their peak.

Team 1: ... either one solos ... eat

Team 1 crushes team 2.

So you guys believe that..
White Crown Phoenix, Psi-Lord, Trion Juggs, or Legion doesn't stand a chance, even as a team

Kinda hard to gauge, because we don't know what they can do at their peak.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

So you guys believe that..
White Crown Phoenix, Psi-Lord, Trion Juggs, or Legion doesn't stand a chance, even as a team
Nah.

Jamie already on panel demonstrated total control of the Phoenix's WHR,
which is connected to Phoenix's heart,
he was warping all reality in it effortlessly with a big smile on his face.

The Omniversal power of Merlin was beneath 238 Jaspers,
who was far weaker than 616 Jaspers.

The rest of the team would just be casualties of war.

Team 1 in a devastating stomp.

Since when was Juggernaut a mutant?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Since when was Juggernaut a mutant? Never.

team one

Originally posted by iceman24567
Never.

Exactly.

MJJ solos.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah.

Jamie already on panel demonstrated total control of the Phoenix's WHR,
which is connected to Phoenix's heart,
he was warping all reality in it effortlessly with a big smile on his face.



this is just as much crap as it was the first million times you said it. he teleported two people out of it, he wasn't even aware of them until Betsy thought of Brian and somehow their twin thing kicked in, then he pulled strings and they were pulled out of the white hot room, nothing more.

Team 1 goes down, can't Psilord just throw a big bang at them
Jamie ain't all that hot as his sister who was protected from reality and mind alteration was altered the second she was transported, yet the daughter of the Phoenix was able to see through the false reality, and was able to psi link Betsy with the other Xmen at a later date during the first fallen arc.

Betsy and Rachel summoning images of themselves was more impressive. The omniversal power of Merlin must have also been beneath Necrom with the anti-Phoenix too since he faked his death and didn't show up again until after Rachel defeated his old mentor. Nor would he have this so called omniversal power if not for the power of the Phoenix, as a result of his mentor planning to take this power but abandoning it for the Phoenix.

MJJ or Jamie solo in a horrific curbstomp!

Originally posted by LordKaos

this is just as much crap as it was the first million times you said it.
Oh, you mean like everything you say?

Got it.
Originally posted by LordKaos

he teleported two people out of it
False.
Jamie warped the shit out of the WHR on panel no matter how ya spin it:

(White Hot Room)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/748927_WHR1.jpg


(Jamie Braddock, on panel, clearly depicted making it his playpen)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/748928_WHR2.jpg

Originally posted by LordKaos

he wasn't even aware of them until Betsy thought of Brian
and somehow their twin thing kicked in
This is not only false, but you actually just made that up.

That's not stated and/or depicted anywhere on panel or in any bio.

In fact, it was Jamie that put them together there,
in the above scan he says it, so ...

"I've gone to a lot of trouble to bind your lives & fates together"


... nice try.
Originally posted by LordKaos

then he pulled strings and they were pulled out of the white hot room,
nothing more.
Then he was warping the reality that makes up the WHR,
pulled them out, nothing more.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Team 1 goes down, can't Psilord just throw a big bang at them
Team 2 gets annihilated, What's that gonna do to Jaspers?
Originally posted by LordKaos

Jamie ain't all that hot as his sister who was protected from reality and mind alteration was altered the second she was transported, yet the daughter of the Phoenix was able to see through the false reality, and was able to psi link Betsy with the other Xmen at a later date during the first fallen arc.
Dude, Jamie has controlled entire Universes before,
one time he created from scratch most of one,
raping the WHR at will,
withstanding unfazed Omniversal attacks,
even manipulating events across the Omniverse,
heck, Jamie helped save the Omniverse during HOM,
he also credited with merging Jaspers with Fury,
and on and on ...

You're sleeping on Jamie.

Originally posted by LordKaos

Betsy and Rachel summoning images of themselves was more impressive.

Originally posted by LordKaos

The omniversal power of Merlin must have also been beneath Necrom with the anti-Phoenix too since he faked his death and didn't show up again until after Rachel defeated his old mentor.
Which was all just more Merlin ploys, lol, Merlin at the end of Excalibur,
issue 125 I believe states,
that everything that took place in the Excalibur team saga, was manipulated by him.
Even Jaspers who was more powerful than Merlin,
Necrom was defeated by Rachel who wasn't even universal, lol.

Merlin had power over all time & space back then,
what do you think Otherworld is, or the Starlight Citidel, or the Celestial Nullifier?

You think these things appeared out of nowhere?
Originally posted by LordKaos

Nor would he have this so called omniversal power if not for the power of the Phoenix, as a result of his mentor planning to take this power but abandoning it for the Phoenix.
This is true, see, when you're right, you're right.

But just to make it clear, lest we confuse others,
Phoenix did not empower the energy Matrix in any way shape or form,
the Force, VIA the interface alignment,
was able to create a duplicate 616 Tower across the Multiverse,
the interface alignment is a natural occurring event
where all the doors of the Multiverse line up & open in a straight line,
the Doors are the Lighthouse Towers, when this alignment occurs,
one has simultaneous access to every Universe in the Multiverse,
this is how the Tower was created in every Universe.

"when a series of interfaces across the Multiverse were aligned,
the localized energy fields merged ... to Create an Energy Matrix."

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749320_tower12vr2dv.jpg

The Energy fields merge on their own...
and the Interfaces across the Mulitverse Align by THEMSELVES

At the moment of alignment, THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower",

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749321_tower26ug4lz.jpg

Still a decent feat regardless though.

btw. The Multiverse later expanded into the Omniverse.

It's not false Betsy was in the white room thought of Brian a window opened showing Brian and then Jamie appeared in the window, he then pulled strings and a teleportation happened.

Since we are talking about warping the white hot room, betsy was able to conjure an infinite amount of her other selves throughout creation, while Rachel's energy signature flared up and the whole white hot room reflected it, both more impressive than a teleportation affect. His part in saving the omniverse as you call it was no more than anybody else who didn't get directly involved he sent warnings through Meggan, so did Roma and Saturnyne (and she has no powers at all, so it must not have been that hard).

you keep saying he created a universe from scratch, yet he still had problems warping a phased being, which has been affected by both Jean and Rachel telekinetically.

you can continue to exaggerate feats all you want, it is clearly shown that he pulls strings and they are teleported, i remember a while back you tried to use the fact that the strings are going towards the crystal around Rachel's neck that he warped the entire white hot room into the crystal, when in actuality Rachel was holding on to the crystal once they arrived in the WHR imprinted with Jeans essence giving them a direct link to the WHR as their jaunt there was accompanied by a Phoenix raptor covering the both of them.

he creates universes and the other "becomes" them, but we know that White Phoenix can manipulate the entirety of a universe and according to you psilord can create big bangs, sounds like two universes going down to me team FTW

i never said she empowered the matrix I said she made it possible for merlin to get all this omniversal power you speak of him having. The fact was it was necroms idea to consolidate the power of the alignment, but once he got his sights on Phoenix the power of the alignment apparently didn't impress him anymore. Feron and Merlin both knew that Necrom would come back to take the power of the Phoenix and what did Merlin do when this happened, he hid and waited for Rachel to do what he apparently was too bitched out to do, because he certainly showed up right after. The CN is not of Merlins creation so don't go there.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Merlin at the end of Excalibur,
issue 125 I believe states,
that everything that took place in the Excalibur team saga, was manipulated by him. if this was stated, it wasn't in issue #125.

Originally posted by Galan007

if this was stated, it wasn't in issue #125.
I'll find it, give me a sec.

Originally posted by LordKaos

It's not false Betsy was in the white room thought of Brian a window opened showing Brian and then Jamie appeared in the window, he then pulled strings and a teleportation happened.
If you're implying Jamie didn't know Betsy and Rachel were in the WHR, you're wrong.

Youu quietly state, "he pulled strings" ..
while simultaneously ignoring that's how Jamie controls Reality.

Nice.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Since we are talking about warping the white hot room, betsy was able to conjure an infinite amount of her other selves throughout creation, while Rachel's energy signature flared up and the whole white hot room reflected it, both more impressive than a teleportation affect.
False.

You think those were real beings?

You think Betsy yanked all those other counter-parts out of their Universe,
so she can enjoy an infinite fashion show? LOL!

Tell me you're joking.

Rachel "flared up the whole WHR?" ... And? ...
she flares up whenever she uses Phoenix power,
and never affects reality, what does this say? Nothing imo.

meh ... In one panel, and the next panel the WHR is clearly the same:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749359_WHR.jpg

Rachel didn't affect the WHR in anyway here,
let's not compare this silliness to what Jamie did.
Originally posted by LordKaos

His part in saving the omniverse as you call it was no more than anybody else who didn't get directly involved he sent warnings through Meggan, so did Roma and Saturnyne (and she has no powers at all, so it must not have been that hard).
I never said he saved the Omniverse, I said he helped.
Originally posted by LordKaos

you keep saying he created a universe from scratch, yet he still had problems warping a phased being, which has been affected by both Jean and Rachel telekinetically.
Oh, you mean when he was first developing his powers?

Hmm ...

And the embodiment of the Phoenix Force has been blown into BillionS by Xorn.

Feakin Xorn, lol!

srugyellowshoes

You wanna bring out low showings, I can do that too.
Originally posted by LordKaos

you can continue to exaggerate feats all you want
Just glad you haven't been able to prove that,
and instead got caught making things up along the line.
Originally posted by LordKaos

it is clearly shown that he pulls strings and they are teleported, i remember a while back you tried to use the fact that the strings are going towards the crystal around Rachel's neck that he warped the entire white hot room into the crystal, when in actuality Rachel was holding on to the crystal once they arrived in the WHR imprinted with Jeans essence giving them a direct link to the WHR as their jaunt there was accompanied by a Phoenix raptor covering the both of them.
Jamie warped the WHR, get over it.

If Jamie pulled strings withIN the WHR,
then Jamie warped the WHR,
cause that's how Jamie manipulates the building blocks of all things,
by pulling on strings:



Originally posted by LordKaos

he creates universes and the other "becomes" them
Yea, in your dreams perhaps, but NEVER once on panel, or in any bio.
Originally posted by LordKaos

but we know that White Phoenix can manipulate the entirety of a universe
and according to you psilord can create big bangs,
sounds like two universes going down to me team FTW
White Phoenix can manipulate the atoms of a Universe, this is true.

Jaspers and Jamie control not only the atoms, but Time/Space and all the other Concepts too.

Jamie had died and come back, homeboy's seems immune to death,
and Jaspers can stop reality implosions with his power,
this is a direct part of his character history, it's a fact,
this is why the Celestial Nullifier was not used on 616 Jaspers like on 238 Jaspers.

whatever he pulls strings to warp reality which he used to teleport not warp the white hot room, so i guess when franklin teleported Joseph to him when he thought magneto was responsible for what happened to his family he warped the entire earth dimension to do so, the rest of that crap I won't bother to read as it is crap.

Originally posted by LordKaos

whatever he pulls strings to warp reality which he used to teleport not warp the white hot room, so i guess when franklin teleported Joseph to him when he thought magneto was responsible for what happened to his family he warped the entire earth dimension to do so
I challenge you to show me Franklin warping the Universe's Reality to teleport anyone.

I can show you Jamie warping the WHR's reality.
Originally posted by LordKaos

the rest of that crap I won't bother to read as it is crap.
Coming from the guy who's lying up and down this thread. durlaugh

lies would mean I am intentionally making up things with no factual base, I have done nothing of the sort, I see those pictures for what they really are, just as i see your post for what they are, an attempt to make one character seem greater than they are due to a misinterpreted action.

Why would you challenge me to show Franklin warping the universe, it was you who said since Jamie warps reality then he must of warped an entire realm to accomplish a simple teleportation, if that is the case then that must have been what Franklin did since is power is to warp reality and not teleport. More circular talk, scans and icons, you have all the makings of a religious fanatic more so than a debater, with that my god is better than your god mentality truely hilarious. you're actaully more like on of those teachers who still thinks egypt is not a part of africa even though it's right there part of africa.

Now to the topic at hand TEAM FTW. anybody with fresh ideas feel free to refute, or we'll just be looking at page upon page of crap filled crap, dipped in a light crap sauce served on a bed of lettuce grown in crap

Originally posted by Galan007

if this was stated, it wasn't in issue #125.
Ok, it was #125 actually.

Merlin and Roma agree that the only event they did not manipulate,
was the break up of Excalibur:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749416_Merlin2.jpg

Merlin states that this time, Excalibur chose their own destiny.

...................................................................................


This is concerning the Necrom event,
Merlin also manipulated that:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749417_m8ff3.jpg

...................................................................................


This is a cool statement by Merlin:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749418_m5sz7.jpg

Merlin: "I missed something, I of all people"

Roma: "You're not infallible father, sometimes I think that a strong wind will blow you over"

Merlin: (with a smirk on his face) ... "Ah yes, but I make the winds

...................................................................................


Imo, that means, no matter the threat, I'm in control.

props mr.master.when he destroys someones credibility he really destroys their credibility lol

Originally posted by LordKaos

lies would mean I am intentionally making up things with no factual base,
I have done nothing of the sort
You've lied several times in this thread.

What's funny is you got the nerve to insult my posts, while you're lying.
Originally posted by LordKaos

I see those pictures for what they really are, just as i see your post for what they are,
an attempt to make one character seem greater than they are due to a misinterpreted action.
Gibberish.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Why would you challenge me to show Franklin warping the universe, it was you who said since Jamie warps reality then he must of warped an entire realm to accomplish a simple teleportation, if that is the case then that must have been what Franklin did since is power is to warp reality and not teleport.
You compared Franklin's teleportation feat to Jamie's raping of the WHR.

Now, you're backing off cause you know that was some silliness to claim.
Originally posted by LordKaos

More circular talk, scans and icons,
you have all the makings of a religious fanatic more so than a debater,
with that my god is better than your god mentality truely hilarious.
you're actaully more like on of those teachers
who still thinks egypt is not a part of africa even though it's right there part of africa
Inconsequential off-topic vain attempt at personally attacking the poster gobbledygook.

Go away, you went from being corrected in the debate, to lying,
to now driveling nothing but shit onto this thread.

Which translates to trolling.

Originally posted by Mr Master
...................................................................................


This is concerning the Necrom event,
Merlin also manipulated that:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749417_m8ff3.jpg

...................................................................................


This is a cool statement by Merlin:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749418_m5sz7.jpg

Merlin: "I missed something, I of all people"

Roma: "You're not infallible father, sometimes I think that a strong wind will blow you over"

Merlin: (with a smirk on his face) ... "Ah yes, but I make the winds

...................................................................................


Imo, that means, no matter the threat, I'm in control.

in control so much you missed something, things like that are what the arrogant say when they are wrong. Storm and Thor make the winds too, they win

Originally posted by Mr Master
You've lied several times in this thread.

What's funny is you got the nerve to insult my posts, while you're lying.

Gibberish.

You compared Franklin's teleportation feat to Jamie's raping of the WHR.

Now, you're backing off cause you know that was some silliness to claim.

Inconsequential off-topic vain attempt at attacking the power gobbledygook.

Go away, you went from being corrected in the debate, to lying,
to now driveling nothing but shit onto this thread.

Which translates to trolling.

What did you correct? you said something I said something back you said I was wrong I said no I'm not. Correction would mean there was validity in what you posted not a bunch of conjecture based on what you think will happen.

Fact: Phoenix power instrumental in the creation of Merlins omniversal status
Fact: Necrom wanted the Phoenix after witnessing it's power in lieu of the alignment
Fact: Jamie can't warp Shadowcat and to his credit never has, but the two beings who have held the power of the Phoenix have used tk on her.
Fact: Besty who was protected by Jamie still fail victim to a reality warp.
Fact: The daughter of the phoenix was able to see through the false reality and show it to Betsy
Fact: Nightcrawler (who was around during this so called universal creation of Jamies) and Betsy say that Jamie could only warp reality locally until the first fall arc and he still did nothing impressive.
Fact: even though he has the power to warp reality, all he did with it was teleport two people from the white hot room
Fact: Phoenix of the white crown can manipulate a universe in it's entirety
Fact: you believe psilord can create big bangs, which would destroy a universe.

Originally posted by LordKaos

in control so much you missed something,
things like that are what the arrogant say when they are wrong.
Storm and Thor make the winds too, they win
Let me know when Storm or Thor have power over the life-Force of the Omniverse.

Let me know when Storm or Thor create something like the Starlight Citedel,
which can obliterate entire UniverseS, which is connected to every Universe in the Omniverse.

Let me know when Storm or Thor create from scratch a Reality like Otherworld,
which is a pan-dimensional Actuality.


Dude, you're killing yourself with these absurd posts. doh
Originally posted by LordKaos

What did you correct? you said something I said something back you said I was wrong I said no I'm not. Correction would mean there was validity in what you posted not a bunch of conjecture based on what you think will happen.
I don't expect you to realize you're wrong,
you're a Phoenix fanboy, I've dealt with you before, this is a Phoenix involved thread,
this forces intransigence upon you, which is why I'm being patient with you,
which is why I'm entertaining myself.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Let me know when Storm or Thor have power over the life-Force of the Omniverse.

Let me know when Storm or Thor create something like the Starlight Citedel,
which can obliterate entire UniverseS, which is connected to every Universe in the Omniverse.

Let me know when Storm or Thor create from scratch a Reality like Otherworld,
which is a pan-dimensional Actuality.


Dude, you're killing yourself with these absurd posts. doh

I don't expect you to realize you're wrong,
you're a Phoenix fanboy, I've dealt with you before, this is a Phoenix involved thread,
this forces intransigence upon you, which is why I'm being patient with you,
which is why I'm entertaining myself.



There you go using intransigence again, this is a debate forum, the purpose of debates are to invoke intransigence, or they would become lectures as you like to believe you are giving. you're being patient with me oh well I better quit if I know whats good for me. again

oh yeah and please show me the lies I told, since I'm so intransigent, I for the life of me can't find any and if all you got is my interpretation of how jamie came to know that his sister was in the WHR, that's called an interpretation, the lie would be saying that jamie knew she was there without any evidence stating that he did.

Originally posted by Nestical
props mr.master.when he destroys someones credibility he really destroys their credibility lol

destroy my credibility, by not addressing the fact that without the Phoenix Merlin would not rate nearly has high as he places him?
or that reality warpers don't warp an entire reality to teleport?
or maybe the part when a feat he as used many times to prove that psilord is so superior is now meaningless when his favorite people are involved? yeah he really got me

Originally posted by LordKaos

Fact: Phoenix power instrumental in the creation of Merlins omniversal status
Fact: Phoenix is still a Universal power.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Fact: Necrom wanted the Phoenix after witnessing it's power in lieu of the alignment
Fact: who
Originally posted by LordKaos

Fact: Jamie can't warp Shadowcat and to his credit never has, but the two beings who have held the power of the Phoenix have used tk on her.
Fatc: Another lie. Keep it up.

Jamie wasn't able to easily warp Kitty while his power was developing,
later on, Jamie increased in power, confirmed in his bio,
and confirmed by his greater displays of power on panel.

Including playing around with entire UniverseS.

Kitty.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Fact: Besty who was protected by Jamie still fail victim to a reality warp.
Fact:
Originally posted by LordKaos

Fact: The daughter of the phoenix was able to see through the false reality and show it to Betsy
Whooppi doo.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Fact: Nightcrawler (who was around during this so called universal creation of Jamies) and Betsy say that Jamie could only warp reality locally until the first fall arc and he still did nothing impressive.
Fact: That's what you Phoenix heads do, overwrite On Panel showings with hyperbole.

What do I canre what Nightcrawler said,
when I've seen Jamie control entire UniverseS.

Meh, here' Jamie turing all the Stars in this entire Universe into snowflakes:

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4076/jam6hr3.th.jpg


yawn ... Next ...
Originally posted by LordKaos

Fact: even though he has the power to warp reality,
all he did with it was teleport two people from the white hot room
Fact: You're wrong. And since you seen Jamie warping the WHR,
you're actually lying instead.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Fact: Phoenix of the white crown can manipulate a universe in it's entirety
Fact: False.

Phoenix can manipulate the atoms of a Universe and ONLY withIN the WHR.

And for a limited time.

A Universe is made up of more than atoms homie.

Time and Space are the fundamentals of reality, Oblivion and Death complete the 4 conerstones.

Phoenix has no power over any of these concepts.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Fact: you believe psilord can create big bangs, which would destroy a universe.
Fact: I do.

Fact: It wouldn't help him one iota vs Jaspers or Jamie.

Originally posted by LordKaos

There you go using intransigence again, this is a debate forum,
the purpose of debates are to invoke intransigence,
or they would become lectures as you like to believe you are giving.
you're being patient with me oh well I better quit if I know whats good for me. again
This is a debate forum, and when things are open to interpretation we all debate,
but when something is clear cut, and then it's presented,
and the person it's presented to continues to deny what we all know because we see it,
that's called intransigence.
Originally posted by LordKaos

oh yeah and please show me the lies I told, since I'm so intransigent,
I for the life of me can't find any and if all you got is my interpretation of how jamie came to know that his sister was in the WHR, that's called an interpretation, the lie would be saying that jamie knew she was there without any evidence stating that he did.
You made false claims, I gave you the benefit of the ignorant doubt,
you presented the facts, you came back again with the same false claim,
that's a lie.

Besides the two other lies.

You're lying cause what else can you do?

You can't present anything that makes Phoenix consequential here vs these two.

You know Phoenix hasn't done shit that compares,
so you demean the feats of the Phoenix's opponents,
it's an old ploy that's been resinating since 2005,
you learned well from the king but you ain't near as good at it yet.

Originally posted by LordKaos

destroy my credibility,
by not addressing the fact
that without the Phoenix Merlin would not rate nearly has high as he places him?
Still lying.

I already addressed that, I even posted the scans of the feat.

Stop lying dude, you're making an ass of yourself.
Originally posted by LordKaos

or that reality warpers don't warp an entire reality to teleport?
More lies, I never said anyone needed to warp an entire reality to do anything.

I clearly conveyed what took place on panel,
Jamie warped the WHR.

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/748928_WHR2.jpg

stoned
Originally posted by LordKaos

or maybe the part when a feat he as used many times to prove that psilord is so superior is now meaningless when his favorite people are involved?
Yet another lie.

I never said what Psi-Lord did was meaningless,
I said it wouldn't help him one bit against these two (Jaspers and Jamie)

Nice try.

I guess I don't have to point out when you lied,
cause you're lying as we go long.

Pretty soon you'll warp into ... liar

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok, it was #125 actually.

Merlin and Roma agree that the only event they did not manipulate,
was the break up of Excalibur:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749416_Merlin2.jpg

Merlin states that this time, Excalibur chose their own destiny. the scan basically tells us that roma/merlin can take the heroes to the "fork in the road." however, it's the heroes themselves whom have to chose whether they go left, or right.

imo, this isn't outright stated:
Originally posted by Mr Master
Merlin at the end of Excalibur,
issue 125 I believe states,
that everything that took place in the Excalibur team saga, was manipulated by him.

in all fairness, you did say "i believe" .

A universal power performing an omniversal feat
The only thing that increased about Jamies power was the range, show me where it says now he can manipulate intangible reality due to this power increase, it was a weakness of his so it should be note worthy if he overcame it.
You have nothing but a laugh for the betsy being manipulated issue (not a surprised)
Rachel seeing through the false reality is relevant simply because it was apparently beyond Jamies power to keep Betsy just as perceptive, if he had truly been so powerful as to make her immune to such tampering then she would have not needed Rachel to show her.
That's you using hyperbole to make a single warp in some undisclosed location look like it's an entire universe, when it was a city as shown when it vanished. when he created this universe, where did he put it. All space in the omiverse has something in it already, so he must have gone outside the omniverse to do that, since that's the only way to create a universe where there is already a universe without overwriting or destroying the previous one, sounds more like a pocket of reality to me.
no i did not see jamie warping the white hot room and not in context that you are claiming he did, i saw him use his power to warp reality to perform a teleportation, you have once again exaggerated a scan to make your man look bigger than ever, but if the Phoenix ain't
that big to begin with why go through all the trouble to prove it, shouldn't it be obvious?
For a limited time? and what time limit is that? the time limit was placed on the life span of the universe not the power of the Phoenix, it would have died if she did nothing. The universe is made up of atoms and such therefore your splitting hairs time space, death and all the others are like you said concepts and the white phoenix is beyond them, she cannot be claimed by death or oblivion as her role is to always be reborn after incubating in her own afterlife, she can reach back in time as she pleases, and exist outside of space your point being what exactly. And when mention of the other two and their universal creating powers have occurred there has been no mention of them having control over any of these concepts either only physical occurrences. you keep saying she has to be in the white room, but I'll say again you cannot amputate something without taking it away from the whole of what it is, more failed attempts by you to downplay an irrefutable feat.

Originally posted by Galan007

the scan basically tells us that roma/merlin can take the heroes to the "fork in the road." however, it's the heroes themselves whom have to chose whether they go left, or right.

imo, this isn't outright stated:
Imo, this is still manipulation good friend,
yes, Excalibur are not puppets that play out a choreographed existence,
but since Merlin and Roma shape the events that Excalibur finds themselves in,
it's almost all the same.

I mean, Merlin and Roma literally put everything in place,
then they allow it to play out:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749703_m2nv7.jpg

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749704_m3yx7.jpg


Imo, this is definitely manipulation.
Originally posted by Galan007

in all fairness, you did say "i believe"
.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is a debate forum, and when things are open to interpretation we all debate,
but when something is clear cut, and then it's presented,
and the person it's presented to continues to deny what we all know because we see it,
that's called intransigence.

You made false claims, I gave you the benefit of the ignorant doubt,
you presented the facts, you came back again with the same false claim,
that's a lie.

Besides the two other lies.

You're lying cause what else can you do?

You can't present anything that makes Phoenix consequential here vs these two.

You know Phoenix hasn't done shit that compares,
so you demean the feats of the Phoenix's opponents,
it's an old ploy that's been resinating since 2005,
you learned well from the king but you ain't near as good at it yet.


since i learned from the king, indeed. I have plenlty that makes Phoenix consequential, such as the holes in your logic about the wonders of teleportation, or the fact that you spout on and on about them making and becomeing universes when she amputates those and removes them from existence. so you pull that MJJ is more powerful than Merlin, but where is your proof that merlin is more powerful than the Phoenix, especially when his master was after the power he has until said master saw the Phoenix.

^

those scans show us that merlin/roma were manipulating the 'jaspers affair' - but certainly don't imply that they manipulate "everything" which happens to excalibur .

meh, i'm just nitpicking/busting your chops at this point, mr m. just board i guess lol.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Still lying.

I already addressed that, I even posted the scans of the feat.

Stop lying dude, you're making an ass of yourself.

More lies, I never said anyone needed to warp an entire reality to do anything.

I clearly conveyed what took place on panel,
Jamie warped the WHR.

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/748928_WHR2.jpg

stoned

Yet another lie.

I never said what Psi-Lord did was meaningless,
I said it wouldn't help him one bit against these two (Jaspers and Jamie)

Nice try.

I guess I don't have to point out when you lied,
cause you're lying as we go long.

Pretty soon you'll warp into ... liar

Once again with word play on your part, when i mentioned the feat it was a joke anyway, and you answered by saying what would it do to Jaspers or something to that effect, the manner in which you responded seems as though said feat would be meaningless not a lie or even a bit untrue what is a lie is what you said happened in issue 125 though anymore attempts at dissecting my post and then brandishing them as lies or are you done resorting to your usual tactics involving word play and misdirection? like me making a sarcastic comment based on how you say reality warping works, you try to make it seem as if I made a claim about Franklin when I was just regurgitating the same nonsense you said to qualify a teleportation as the warping of an entire realm using a different character to show you how utterly ridiculous your claim about warping the entire WHR is.

Originally posted by LordKaos

A universal power performing an omniversal feat


Unbelievable, still lying?

Omniversal feat my ass.

Phoenix was only able to project that Tower VIA the interface alignment.

nice try ...
Originally posted by LordKaos

The only thing that increased about Jamies power was the range, show me where it says now he can manipulate intangible reality due to this power increase, it was a weakness of his so it should be note worthy if he overcame it.
Show me these nuts.

I've been showing everything, and it's made no difference to your intransigence,
why should I'll be wasting my time
while all you do is yap, yap, yap.
Originally posted by LordKaos

You have nothing but a laugh for the betsy being manipulated issue (not a surprised)
Irrelevant.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Rachel seeing through the false reality is relevant simply because it was apparently beyond Jamies power to keep Betsy just as perceptive, if he had truly been so powerful as to make her immune to such tampering then she would have not needed Rachel to show her.
The embodiment of the Phoenix Force got obliterated into Billions of pieces by Xorn.

Xorn.

Again, I can pop up low showings, actually, the Xorn case is canon.
Confirmed in 3 bios.
Originally posted by LordKaos

That's you using hyperbole to make a single warp in some undisclosed location look like it's an entire universe, when it was a city as shown when it vanished. when he created this universe, where did he put it. All space in the omiverse has something in it already, so he must have gone outside the omniverse to do that, since that's the only way to create a universe where there is already a universe without overwriting or destroying the previous one, sounds more like a pocket of reality to me.
This is again, just another lie.

On Panel the alternate Reality Excalibur was in disappeared.

Jamie's bio clearly tells us he created MOST of that Universe.
Originally posted by LordKaos

no i did not see jamie warping the white hot room and not in context that you are claiming he did, i saw him use his power to warp reality to perform a teleportation, you have once again exaggerated a scan to make your man look bigger than ever, but if the Phoenix ain't
that big to begin with why go through all the trouble to prove it, shouldn't it be obvious?
Wrong.

jamie warped the WHR, and everyone unbiased eye knows it.

Originally posted by LordKaos

For a limited time? and what time limit is that? the time limit was placed on the life span of the universe not the power of the Phoenix, it would have died if she did nothing. The universe is made up of atoms and such therefore your splitting hairs time space, death and all the others are like you said concepts and the white phoenix is beyond them, she cannot be claimed by death or oblivion as her role is to always be reborn after incubating in her own afterlife, she can reach back in time as she pleases, and exist outside of space your point being what exactly. And when mention of the other two and their universal creating powers have occurred there has been no mention of them having control over any of these concepts either only physical occurrences. you keep saying she has to be in the white room, but I'll say again you cannot amputate something without taking it away from the whole of what it is, more failed attempts by you to downplay an irrefutable feat.
White Crown Phoenix can only control the atoms of a Universe.

Jean herself states this after the feat:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/538867_hct.jpg

"Telekinetic control of all those atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds,

not even for a White Phoenix of the Crown"

............................................................................

And evidently it ain't even easy for the poor girl!

............................................................................


Confirmed by her own 2008 bio ... to be control on an atomic scale:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749740_Jean.jpg

yawn


Phoenix has absolutely no power over Time/Space or any of the Concepts.

Time traveling is NOT controlling time dogs.

And Time/Space and the other Concepts are NOT made of atoms either.

I only caught a glimpse I said she was beyond the concepts, who cares how hard it is she did it, and it was only confusing in the beginning once the consciousness showed her the way she was ok.
jamie warped reality to teleport people nothing more, if anybody with unbiased eyes could see it then why hadn't anybody on here mentioned it until you brought up certainly you aren't saying you're the only person who is not biased?
Ok so I lied because I said he didn't create a universe, but now you say he created most of it, so then I was right he didn't create a universe only most of one. Which is where your baby universe theory can come into play, I would also surmise that the parts he couldn't make are the ones you claim the Phoenix can't control, most of the universe being the physical as the other aspects are not quantifiable, and still I say pocket universe.
Now you have lied again obliterated and shattered not the same things actually nowhere near the same thing unless your a fan of hyperbole Obliterate would mean it was wiped from existence, or at the very least made into some unrecognizable form, neither happened to the Phoenix.
And I guess I could see how it is funny that it was xorn, the same way I can see how funny it was to see MJJ one shotted by Brian after being merged with the fury, or how the omnipotent Jamie was helpless, captured and bound by the other less powerful forsaken, of the fact that is meat for the being that calls itself the polar opposite of the Phoenix.
It would take omniversal power to project the lighthouse in every realm in the omniverse, so if I have a million dollars to build a million dollar house and am given the chance to build these houses everywhere all I need is a million dollars still?

Just a thread friends

IMO, Jaspers/Jaime win

Originally posted by LordKaos

since i learned from the king, indeed. I have plenlty that makes Phoenix consequential, such as the holes in your logic about the wonders of teleportation
At this point you're just turning into one pile of gibberish.
Originally posted by LordKaos

or the fact that you spout on and on about them making and becomeing universes when she amputates those and removes them from existence.
She didn't remove anything from existence,
she removed Sublime which in-turn dis-infected reality 15104,
The disinfection of Sublime was what amputated the timeline.

It was Scott's decision that erased reality 15104 from existence, NOT Jean.

Jean forced Scott's decision, so she was indirectly involved,
but the power to create and nullify 15104, was always in Scott's mind/decision.
Originally posted by LordKaos

so you pull that MJJ is more powerful than Merlin

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8343/jjgo1.th.jpg

yawn
Originally posted by LordKaos

but where is your proof that merlin is more powerful than the Phoenix,
lulz

Let me know when Phoenix has power over the life-Force of the Omniverse.

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749813_CN.jpg

.....................................................................................................


Let me know when Phoenix can create something like the Starlight Citedel,
which can obliterate entire UniverseS:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749814_CN3.jpg

.....................................................................................................


And also, the Starlight Citedel is connected to every Universe in the Omniverse:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749815_CN2.jpg

.....................................................................................................


Let me know when Phoenix creates from scratch a Reality like Otherworld,
which is a pan-dimensional Actuality.

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749816_m2sy6.jpg

.....................................................................................................


Respect the Supreme Omniversal Guardian dogs!

.....................................................................................................


As we know, Merlyn was the Marvel "Supreme Omniversal Guardian"

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7281/mer1gx4.th.jpg

....................................................................................................

these are not powers they are gadgets and machines you speak of, at that moment saturnyne is more powerful than merlin. it only mentions him creating the corps and apparently only through the multiverse. established has many definitions the first meaning to institute or make firm, it can mean to create but why use the word create and establish in the same dialog unless you wanted to make a distinction between the two, he could have easily said created otherplace but he didn't and why did he do any of it? to find Necrom, and what did he do when Necrom came back? pretend to be dead, yes he is indeed a god among gods if god used crystals and weapons instead of his own power which is what we are talking about I have yet to see his power be anywhere near what you claim, and I'm not talking about his power of influence over machines and corps.

Originally posted by LordKaos

I only caught a glimpse I said she was beyond the concepts
Phoenix is not beyond anything,
all the Concept are re-born, just like Phoenix,
in fact, the Concepts transition through Big Bangs without worry:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749876_BB.jpg
Originally posted by LordKaos

who cares how hard it is she did it,
and it was only confusing in the beginning
once the consciousness showed her the way she was ok.
So everytime Phoenix is in a ve match,
your idea is, she can run to the WHR, and attack from there?

Meh, then Jamie comes and makes his house.

Over.
Originally posted by LordKaos

jamie warped reality to teleport people nothing more, if anybody with unbiased eyes could see it then why hadn't anybody on here mentioned it until you brought up certainly you aren't saying you're the only person who is not biased?
Wrong.

Jamie warped the WHR.
Originally posted by LordKaos

Ok so I lied because I said he didn't create a universe, but now you say he created most of it, so then I was right he didn't create a universe only most of one. Which is where your baby universe theory can come into play, I would also surmise that the parts he couldn't make are the ones you claim the Phoenix can't control, most of the universe being the physical as the other aspects are not quantifiable, and still I say pocket universe.
Goodness, not another lie?

No where is it stated that Jamie created any "baby" universe.

You summation concerning what part os that Universe he created
are also unsupported speculations.

Jamie controls Reality, (Time/Space and all in-between)
unlike Phoenix who only controls atoms.

Pocket Universe?

Two lies in one quote, I see you're trying to out do yourself in bull shit
Originally posted by LordKaos

Now you have lied again obliterated and shattered not the same things actually nowhere near the same thing unless your a fan of hyperbole Obliterate would mean it was wiped from existence, or at the very least made into some unrecognizable form, neither happened to the Phoenix.
And I guess I could see how it is funny that it was xorn
Every time you lie, I'll simply post the factual proof to expose you:

Planetary EMP,
which evidently is enough to shatter the almighty PF!

......................................................................................

Xorn, killing Jean Grey ... and exploding the actual Phoenix Force itself!

......................................................................................


On Panel:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3669/1vd7.th.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5718/2eb7.th.jpg

......................................................................................


Beast remembers:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1715/jeandiesuj7.th.jpg

......................................................................................


Bio:

......................................................................................


(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1528/pf1ih0.th.jpg

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"

......................................................................................


(from WC Phoenix - Jean Grey's official 2008 bio)

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/537120_jean.jpg

"Jean opposed faux Magneto but was killed by a lethal EMP
that shattered the Phoenix Force into Billions of pieces"

......................................................................................


This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1430/pfbillioncl9.th.jpg

"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion pieces"

Originally posted by guy222
Just a thread friends

IMO, Jaspers/Jaime win

I know it's just a thread, but pitting several (Jean, Vulcan, Mr. M and Franklin) omega level mutants and then giving them full potential (meaning they are all on or near the level of WP) against two crazys who warp reality is not a cut and dry battle especially for the two, one who can create most of a universe but at the same time has trouble warping intangibles and another who was called an omniversal threat only by extrapolation as he has never done anything on or close to that scale.

Originally posted by LordKaos

the same way I can see how funny
it was to see MJJ one shotted by Brian after being merged with the fury


Jaspers had just come back from the dead,
they were re-introducing him in that issue,
the writer got em out of the way quickly, that was to be a Jaspers centered story.

Love how you leave out Jaspers returning in "Die by the Sword"
where he erased a near-Omniversal infinite amount of Captain Britains
with a wave of his hand.

Jaspers was in another realm,
he took off to assimilate what had just happened to him,
that's how "Die by the Sword" begins,
bet ya didn't know that, did ya.
Originally posted by LordKaos

or how the omnipotent Jamie was helpless,
captured and bound by the other less powerful forsaken,
of the fact that is meat for the being that calls itself the polar opposite of the Phoenix.
HAHAHAHAH!!!

Jamie manipulated that event silly boy, in order to get Betsy to be the hero.

Good lord do you even read these issue, or is it all Wiki-pedia regurgitation here?
Originally posted by LordKaos

It would take omniversal power to project the lighthouse in every realm in the omniverse, so if I have a million dollars to build a million dollar house and am given the chance to build these houses everywhere all I need is a million dollars still?
It was the Multiverse then, and without the interface alignment
that feat would've been impossible for Phoenix.

The interface alignment allows simultaneous existence across the realities.

Any average matter manipulator could've done the same crap VIA the alignment.

her amputating universes was used only to counter you using the creation of a universe to prove superiority
wrong jamie teleported via reality warping
the fact of the Phoenix being shattered was not refuted it was the use of the word obliterated, proving that you have a flare for exaggeration.
yeah he manipulated it the same way Merlin manipulated Excalibur, poorly. more accusations on lies when it was your lie that he created a universe that stared that part of the debate in the first place. what parts of the univeres did he create and what parts did he not create? you don't know so then what you call lies becomes supposition as there is no answer, it's your theory versus mine, we know that as a reality manipulator he can control matter and energy never once saw him bend time or even utilize it artfully we can assume he can't grab hold of it since back then intangible things were beyond his grasp
all else is more rhetoric, conjecture and above all crap.

Originally posted by LordKaos

these are not powers they are gadgets and machines you speak of
Yea, shit that Merlin created.

Also, I didn't know the Starlight Citedel, which is an Omniversal Nexus,
is a machine.

I also didn't know that the pan-dimensional Actuality Otherworld, was a machine.
Originally posted by LordKaos

at that moment saturnyne is more powerful than merlin.
dur
Originally posted by LordKaos

it only mentions him creating the corps and apparently only through the multiverse.
Again, just like the Phoenix projected the Tower
VIA the interface alignment through the Multiverse,
not the Omniverse, yet I see you trying to give Phoenix credit for the more.

Again, that story take place a very long time ago,
it was a Multiverse back then, it has expanded.

Merlyn was the Supreme Omniversal Guardian, not Multiversal:

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7281/mer1gx4.th.jpg


And the Corps are an Omniversal organization,
and Merlyn created Otherworld and the Starlight Citedel,
and everything else I mentioned.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4122/mer2po6.th.jpg

Originally posted by LordKaos

established has many definitions the first meaning to institute or make firm,
it can mean to create but why use the word create and establish in the same dialog unless you wanted to make a distinction between the two, he could have easily said created otherplace but he didn't
This is poor attempt at trying to spin facts.

Stick to the lies.
Originally posted by LordKaos

yes he is indeed a god among gods if god used crystals and weapons instead of his own power which is what we are talking about I have yet to see his power be anywhere near what you claim, and I'm not talking about his power of influence over machines and corps.
He created Otherworld ... a pan-dimensional Actuality.

he created the Starlight Citadel ... an Omniversal Nexus that can obliterate Universes.

He created the Celestial Nullifier .. can erase any Universe in the Omniverse.

He's played/manipulated the Multiverse from one of his chess boards,
while he had numerous others boards floating around his realm.

"we are all pawns of the gods"

Originally posted by LordKaos

I know it's just a thread, but pitting several (Jean, Vulcan, Mr. M and Franklin) omega level mutants and then giving them full potential (meaning they are all on or near the level of WP)

against two crazys who warp reality is not a cut and dry battle especially for the two,
one who can create most of a universe but at the same time has trouble warping intangibles
That's a lie.

Jamie's power increased and that is no longer a limitation.
Originally posted by LordKaos

and another who was called an omniversal threat
only by extrapolation as he has never done anything on or close to that scale.
Except thwarting the power of the guy who had power
over the entire Life-Force of the Omniverse.

How about becoming the 616 Reality.

How about his weaker counter-part (238)
warping an entire Universe more than any other Universe has ever been warped in history.
(props to Galan on this find)

How about collapsing the entire Omniverse in a possible alternate future.

How about nearly destroying the Omniverse just last year:

.....................................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbook clip - 2008 - Exiles BIO ...

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5183/omni2rr8.th.jpg

"Exiles teamed with Excalibur,
to stop Jaspers & the Fury from destroying the Omniverse"


.....................................................................................................


swank ... This is getting boring.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Again, just like the Phoenix projected the Tower
VIA the interface alignment through the Multiverse,
not the Omniverse, yet I see you trying to give Phoenix credit for the more.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go deal with real people on this side of the omniverse.
Again, that story take place a very long time ago,
it was a Multiverse back then, it has expanded.

still doesn't make you wrong calling the Phoenix a universal power nor does it not take away from the fact that Merlin and Roma have are both from race that have powers and use tech, you can say he built all of that with his power just as easy as I can say he used tech from his homeworld, i won't but I could and I can still sit back and relish in the fact that you still have not showed him use any power, what you have shown is that after matering the matrix he establishe otherworld and the corps (who are powered by the friction between dimensions not merlin himself) none of which is a factor Team for the win

Originally posted by LordKaos

her amputating universes was used only to counter you using the creation of a universe to prove superiority
Superiority?

Phoenix and her team get curbstomped here in every way.
Originally posted by LordKaos

wrong jamie teleported via reality warping
Wrong.

jamie warped the WHR.
Originally posted by LordKaos

the fact of the Phoenix being shattered was not refuted it was the use of the word obliterated, proving that you have a flare for exaggeration.
If "obliterated" is too strong of a word for ya fine.

So I'll use verbatim: (Phoenix Force's own words)

"I though I was dead, in a Billion Billion pieces


ooh .. big freakin difference, the Force was stomped ridiculously no matter the term.
Originally posted by LordKaos

yeah he manipulated it the same way Merlin manipulated Excalibur, poorly. more accusations on lies when it was your lie that he created a universe that stared that part of the debate in the first place.
Hopefully this will be your final lie.

I never said Jamie created an entire Universe, I said he has controlled entire Universes,
and I said he created MOST of one.
Originally posted by LordKaos

what parts of the univeres did he create and what parts did he not create? you don't know so then what you call lies becomes supposition as there is no answer, it's your theory versus mine
Nah.

Jamie is a reality warper, not limited to atoms like the Phoenix chump.

So, it's for certain that he at-least was involved in the time/space aspects of that Universe.

Dude, the Universe didn't return to normal, or anything of the sort,
MOST of that Universe ... disappeared.

That means that a majority of it's Time-Space and Coceptuatlities were nullified.
Originally posted by LordKaos

we know that as a reality manipulator he can control matter and energy
never once saw him bend time or even utilize it artfully
Why would you see anything? You don't know much about the character.

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749961_jamie5.jpg
Originally posted by LordKaos

we can assume he can't grab hold of it
since back then intangible things were beyond his grasp

Here's Kitty, in her phased state, getting the shit warped out of her:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749962_Jamie3.jpg

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749963_Jamie4.jpg

Awaiting the next excuse.
Originally posted by LordKaos

all else is more rhetoric, conjecture and above all crap.
Don't hate on yourself, we've all been wrong at one time or another.

Originally posted by LordKaos

still doesn't make you wrong calling the Phoenix a universal power
True, I never demeaned Phoenix's Universal status.

That's yall two or three Phoenix-heads that do that.
Originally posted by LordKaos

nor does it not take away from the fact that Merlin and Roma
have are both from race that have powers and use tech
Galactus uses tech, and?
It just makes for a more interesting story than having a guy wave his hand and it's over.
Originally posted by LordKaos

you can say he built all of that with his power just as easy
as I can say he used tech from his homeworld, i won't but I could
You can say anything you like.

The simple fact is that Merlyn created all things in Otherworld.

Unless you have on panel or bio proff that disputes that, leave it alone.
Originally posted by LordKaos

and I can still sit back and relish in the fact
that you still have not showed him use any power
durznuts
Originally posted by LordKaos

what you have shown is that after matering the matrix
he establishe otherworld and the corps
(who are powered by the friction between dimensions not merlin himself)

"powered by the friction between dimensions"

Do you know what that is?

That's the Energy Matrix Merlyn merged with:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749984_m1mu5.jpg

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/749816_m2sy6.jpg

Next ...

MJJ solos. Anyone who disagrees will be destroyed.

Not all of the team is even Omega Mutants.

Hell, one of them isn't even a Mutant.

Anyway, either one on team 1 solo.

Team FTW, minus the non-mutants and the non-omegas (I only counted the omegas) if they are at their full potential which is limitless they win, four beings at WP level against two powerful alphas with the power of conjecture I pick the omegas, say what you want about what the Phoenix can't do she ain't the only one fighting and this thread only turned into a phoenix vs whoever thread because somebody saw the Phoenix and decided hey if I make it all about what she can't do everyone will ignore the fact that the others have been given their full potential in this fight, a full powered franklin can do whatever these two can do he has done more as a kid, omegas can't be killed as far as we have seen so how do they loose?

I ain't buying it. The omegas (Jean, Bobby, Vulcan, Mr.M, Franklin) at full potential, these two are going down as it took much less to put them down before. why would you show that scan and then say the friction between dimensions is what the matrix is, when that says nothing of the sort? the friction between dimensions is exactly what is sounds like it is, you make it seem like merlin created the walls that seperate dimensions thus creating the friction, so now merlin holds all power in the omniverse without him the walls that seperate one reality from another would not be? how did creation thrive before him? oh yeah Jamie created it and them Jasper became one with it all then merlin created the omniverse, then he ran away and pretended to be dead so his mentor wouldn't kill him with that piece of the Phoenix he stole

Originally posted by Mr Master
http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/538867_hct.jpg

"Telekinetic control of all those atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds,

not even for a White Phoenix of the Crown"

............................................................................

And evidently it ain't even easy for the poor girl!

I think she did it easily, but she meant with ''it's no easy as it sounds'', so that she musn't screw something, but she was easily doing it (and had total control), she wasn't tired or anything, but to not screw something.
Still, it seems she can't do it with a thought like MJJ let's say.
But MJJ also warped universe beyond recognition, WPOTC could easily do the same, just in a different way.

About Jamie and his feat in WHR. I mean, it's not great or anything. It's his power to warp and he warped it. Cyclops power is to shoot eye beams and look what mess he almost did there. It's really nothing special, Mr Master.

First team wins and they are both powerhouses while in team 2 only WPOTC is a powerhouse. Others are not important in such battle, except Franklin, which wouldn't be enough.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I think she did it easily, but she meant with ''it's no easy as it sounds'', so that she musn't screw something, but she was easily doing it (and had total control), she wasn't tired or anything, but to not screw something.
Still, it seems she can't do it with a thought like MJJ let's say.
But MJJ also warped universe beyond recognition, WPOTC could easily do the same, just in a different way.

About Jamie and his feat in WHR. I mean, it's not great or anything. It's his power to warp and he warped it. Cyclops power is to shoot eye beams and look what mess he almost did there. It's really nothing special, Mr Master.

First team wins and they are both powerhouses while in team 2 only WPOTC is a powerhouse. Others are not important in such battle, except Franklin, which wouldn't be enough.

Agreed.

MJJ>Jamie IMO.

LordKaos posted alot of bull in here it's obvious Jamie warped the WHR and team 1 stomps..Making images of their alternate selves more impressive than actually pulling strings from the WHR? Nah.

Originally posted by LordKaos

I ain't buying it. The omegas (Jean, Bobby, Vulcan, Mr.M, Franklin) at full potential, these two are going down as it took much less to put them down before.
Either MJJ or Jamie solo in a curbstomp.
Originally posted by LordKaos

why would you show that scan
and then say the friction between dimensions is what the matrix is,

when that says nothing of the sort?

the friction between dimensions is exactly what is sounds like it is,
you make it seem like merlin created the walls that seperate dimensions
thus creating the friction
You reeealy need to read
before trying to make me look like I'm talking out my ass.

The scan I showed is of Merlyn merging with the Matrix,
you just asked why I did it,
and I did cause you said the Cap. Brit. corps were not powered by the Matrix,
instead by the "friction between dimensions" ... of course that is the Matrix,
what do you think a "matrix" in this context is friend?

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/752859_Tower.jpg

"I can see Life Force, lots of it, flowing into you"

"The Energy Matrix it powers ALL the Captain Britans"

.............................................................................

doh

Originally posted by LordKaos

so now merlin holds all power in the omniverse
without him the walls that seperate one reality from another would not be?
Not exactly,
while Merlyn did possess power over all the life-force of the omniverse while merged,
he did not embody that life-force.

So he wasn't necessary for the energy Matrix to exist.
Originally posted by LordKaos

how did creation thrive before him?
Explained above.
Originally posted by LordKaos

oh yeah Jamie created it and them Jasper became one with it all then merlin created the omniverse, then he ran away and pretended to be dead so his mentor wouldn't kill him with that piece of the Phoenix he stole

Originally posted by Xplosive

I think she did it easily, but she meant with ''it's no easy as it sounds'', so that she musn't screw something, but she was easily doing it (and had total control), she wasn't tired or anything, but to not screw something.
She said it wasn't easy, anything further is speculation.

Also, as far as we know, she can only perform an act on this scale in the WHR.

Anything further would be speculation.
Originally posted by Xplosive

Still, it seems she can't do it with a thought like MJJ let's say.
She can't do anything remotely resembling what Jaspers or Jamie can do.

They warp Reality friend, it doesn't get better than that.

Phoenix control atoms, immense difference on many levels.
Originally posted by Xplosive

But MJJ also warped universe beyond recognition,
WPOTC could easily do the same, just in a different way.
Phoenix has never warp 616, never has come close to doing it,
even in her most vicious days, 616 > every other reality,
and beyond that,
Jaspers warped the Concepts of 616, which Phoenix could never do.
He became the freakin Universe.
Originally posted by Xplosive

About Jamie and his feat in WHR. I mean, it's not great or anything. It's his power to warp and he warped it. Cyclops power is to shoot eye beams and look what mess he almost did there. It's really nothing special, Mr Master.
I disagree friend.
Originally posted by Xplosive

First team wins and they are both powerhouses while in team 2 only WPOTC is a powerhouse.
Others are not important in such battle, except Franklin, which wouldn't be enough.

Originally posted by Mr Master
She said it wasn't easy, anything further is speculation.

Also, as far as we know, she can only perform an act on this scale in the WHR.

Anything further would be speculation.

Although I believe she can do it, it would speculation, so won't go into that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix has never warp 616, never has come close to doing it,
even in her most vicious days, 616 > every other reality,
and beyond that,
Jaspers warped the Concepts of 616, which Phoenix could never do.
He became the freakin Universe.

As you see, I never said that she could warp it, only that could do a mess with a universe (to make it also beyond recognition) like MMJ, but in a different way.
Now, only if she could do it to 616? I think so, but won't go into that, since it would be speculation and my personal believe.