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NJO Luke Skywalker vs. ROTS Anakin (after tapping into dark side), ROTS Mace Windu, and Darth Sidious. No emerald lightning for NJO LUke

Don't think NJO Luke has Emerald Lightning.

The team wins. Especially in sabers. Especially.




Reiteration FTW!

Sorry, i thought i heard somewhere on this forums that he had emerald lightning. hm never mind then

Lets change it up to LOTF Luke, just to see what happens. Something might change when he gets more powerful, so lets see what happens.






copycat reiteration FTW

Not sure...


Team is full win...

NJO Luke is the one who first uses emerald lightning, so yeah, he has it.

Of course, he's still going to get the shit knocked out of him.

Yeah, pretty much. This is essentially decided if Palpaitne wants to draw it out or Mace decides to have mercy and end it quick

Luke would easily get overpowered by these three.

Jesus. Talk about spite.

NJO Luke can manipulate black holes quite easily later on in the NJO series, and use the Force to shield entire planets. He's quite clearly established as someone who -- when the situation demands it -- can manipulate the Force on the planetary level quite easily. The movies on the other hand quite clearly establish these guys as street level combatants, when the best of all of them, Yoda, struggles with relatively basic telekinesis (levitating and moving a medium sized pillar). On account of his Force powers being about a million times greater than that collectively of this entire team, he wins in a curbstomp.

Sidious, who is Yoda's equal, was capable of wielding three automobile-sized objects with apparent ease, lifting them over his head with ONE HAND.

'Street level'? His very presence affected the force in its entirety, strengthening the dark side and weakening the dark side, nigh-destroying the perception of such powerful people like Yoda. By Sithisis, he was able to launch a ritual- granted, a ritual, but that doesn't prevent you from using Bane's ritual as reasonings as to why he's more powerful than DE Sidious- that not only caused massive damage to Coruscan't surface via lightning storms, but also enabled him to cloud the minds and bring out the fears of people as powerful as Yoda. His lightning disintergrated a Sith Wrym with a quick burst, too.

Meanwhile, you have Mace, who was displayed to be capable of high-end TK, such as the manipulation of a rock slide while he was gliding on it, and crushing Grievous, a construct made out of durasteel, the most powerful steel in the mythos.

Anakin may not be much of a force-threat, but he was labelled the 'strongest and fastest Jedi' or his generation, and was able to reduce Dooku- one of the most powerful Jedi in history 'and an even greater Lord of the Sith'- to an utter joke in lightsaber combat.

Together, they're better than him.

I'm going to say LOTF luke can handle these guys. I'm assuming Palps is from ROTS. Its been said that DE sidious can disable force combatants in a moment. in a split second, and then is capable of fighting 2 on 1. (see DE sidious vs. ROTS Mace, Yoda, Anakin, Obi-Wan) I disagree with this, however, if its actually to be believed, we have to assume Luke can do the same thing. Therefore, he kills anakin in a moment with the force, then, instead of using 20 lightsabers at once speed to defeat the other two, he needs use only probalby about 3 lightsabers at once, since they can only block one each.

Mace was said to be able to strike so quickly it looked like there were multiple blades; Sidious outclasses said Mace in speed until Mace was immersed in Vaapad. Speed-wise, Sidious can certainly compete with Luke, even if he can't in other regards.

And this is NJO Luke, not LotF Luke.

To prevent total death of this thread in what looked like an epic curbstomp I suggested we change it to LotF Luke. If it isn't necessary, then I guess we revert to discussing NJO Luke.

If it's an all-out battle, then Luke takes it. Mace and Anakin can't stand up to his Force-prowess, and by himself Palpatine stands no chance.

Originally posted by Faunus
If it's an all-out battle, then Luke takes it. Mace and Anakin can't stand up to his Force-prowess, and by himself Palpatine stands no chance.

Yeah, but just like the DE Sidious thread, you think Luke is going to be able to BFR or kill two of the three combatants before they close the distance and take it to sabers?

I don't know. I mean, Anakin is a beast saberwise, specially if he is in the same state of mind he was against dooku (arguably as good as yoda or sidious, seeing how he owned dooku), and we know his stamina and force reserves makes him and untirable fighting machine, mace fully emerged in the vaadpad can even contend with sidious himself, and sidious is a beast both saber and force wise. The only problem here is luke's force powers, if he uses his power to put aside anakin and/or mace, even if only temporary, he can probably beat sidious. And then he can beat the other 2.

I think this would turn to be a dooku vs obi and anakin, luke would start struggling against the team and then uses the force to separate them. And then he beats them. So, unless he is stupid enough to fight them all with the saber, he will win I think.

Even at LOTF, Luke would be hard pressed to deal with "teh Zone" Anakin paired with another of these, saberwise. If he Force-kills Anakin first, I think he could survive against Mace and Palaptine in sabers

Originally posted by Faunus
If it's an all-out battle, then Luke takes it. Mace and Anakin can't stand up to his Force-prowess, and by himself Palpatine stands no chance.

I've thought about that statement and I defer my opinion to Faunus' greater wisdom. In an All Out, Luke should make this look easy.

Luke can start out the match by Force Severing Palpatine, rendering the most formittable opponent on the team useless. Now, he might be able to do something else with the Force before Mace and Anakin are on him in sabers, or he might not. Let's assume the latter.

By NJO Luke is fast enough to look as though he's wielding 20 sabers at once. That's far faster than Mace's 6-9. Plus, as a user of Jar'Kai, he wields two blades, and oh! There's two opponents. Creating some distance by backpeddling or somesuch thing, he should be able to Force Push/Grip Anakin out of the way or cause something to fall upon him, ala Count Dooku in ROTS.

Now, it's 1 v 1 against Mace - and it's a no contest. Mace's Vaapad doesn't help against Luke a whole lot. And if Dooku and Yoda were able to best Mace, so too can Luke.

Now we suppose Anakin recovers by now. Doesn't matter. Even 'In the Zone' Anakin can't compete with Luke's swordsmanship and Force power. He gets torn apart.

Luke then walks over to Palpatine, who is saying something like, "Help me. I'm so weak. I can't hold him any more." Proceeds to smile, and behead the bastard.

The end. If we made this LOTF Luke, or allowed Luke to use his Emerald Lightning, this would be an even worse stomp.

Skywalker can sever the Force connections to individuals?

Originally posted by Gideon
Skywalker can sever the Force connections to individuals?

He does so to Dark Empire Sidious, with the help of Leia.

If you take into account that DE Sidious is much stronger than ROTS Sidious, and that NJO Luke is much stronger than DE Luke (thus presumably not needing Leia's assistance), it's reasonable to think he could. Especially since he's been shown on panel to do it already.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He does so to Dark Empire Sidious, with the help of Leia.

If you take into account that DE Sidious is much stronger than ROTS Sidious, and that NJO Luke is much stronger than DE Luke (thus presumably not needing Leia's assistance), it's reasonable to think he could. Especially since he's been shown on panel to do it already.

I'm afraid that isn't nearly good enough to conclude that he's capable of doing so without aid, even at this stage. Combining the incredible, innate power of three Skywalkers isn't the same as declaring that one of them could do so. Especially when, as I recall, they merely cut Palpatine off from his Force Storm -- not from the Force itself.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm afraid that isn't nearly good enough to conclude that he's capable of doing so without aid, even at this stage. Combining the incredible, innate power of three Skywalkers isn't the same as declaring that one of them could do so. Especially when, as I recall, they merely cut Palpatine off from his Force Storm -- not from the Force itself.

You picky bastard, lol.

"Brother and sister Jedi press the Force around the dark nexus that is Emperor Palpatine...The invisible life energy surging over him, separating him from his power. Enveloped in light, cut off from his great rage..."

To me, that is a Force Sever. Compare the description to what Nomi does to Ulic, and it essentially matches.

DE Sidious is, what would you say...twice as powerful as ROTS Sidious? And NJO Luke being...twice as powerful and skilled with the Force as DE Luke?

To me, that's enough evidence. Especially since we see it on panel. At this point in NJO, he's made up his own attack (Emerald Judgment)...that's how much his mastery of the Force has improved.

You really think he couldn't? Or are you being cautious?

Originally posted by Enyalus
You picky bastard, lol.

"Brother and sister Jedi press the Force around the dark nexus that is Emperor Palpatine...The invisible life energy surging over him, separating him from his power. Enveloped in light, cut off from his great rage..."

To me, that is a Force Sever. Compare the description to what Nomi does to Ulic, and it essentially matches.

I would like to see those descriptions, please, because it clarifies that he was "cut off from his great rage" -- the Force Storm. He could no longer control it.



We don't have nearly enough information to quantify the power gaps in terms of numbers.



It's not enough. In Jedi Knight, one of Palpatine's dark side adepts, Jerec, demonstrated the ability to separate Jedi from the Force entirely without aid. Since Jerec's dark side knowledge came from the Emperor, can we conclude that Palpatine is capable of doing so simply because his subordinate can do it? As far as Skywalker's mastery is concerned, again, he had aid from two individuals with ridiculous innate power. That he can "invent new attacks" is irrelevant; Palpatine has been stated to invent many new powers at his leisure.



Both.

Originally posted by Gideon
I would like to see those descriptions, please, because it clarifies that he was "cut off from his great rage" -- the Force Storm. He could no longer control it.

It also states that he was "separating him from his power." Which can be taken as all of his power, not just his Force Storm. The question should be, "What could make him lose control over the Force Storm?" And the simplest answer (although I hate Occam's Razer) is that he was separated from all of his power, thus his control over his creation (the Force Storm) was nonexistent.

But, since you said please, I'll provide you with the quote regarding Nomi and Ulic.

"I imprison you in a wall of light. A fortress to block you from the Force. Blind you to your Jedi powers!"

She goes on to add: "Something Master Odan-Urr taught me. A Force blocking technique to neutralize an enemy without violence...but I never thought it would be so strong...so complete."

Compare it directly to the DE description:

"Brother and sister Jedi press the Force around the dark nexus that is Emperor Palpatine...The invisible life energy surging over him, separating him from his power. Enveloped in light, cut off from his great rage.."

Pretty similar, no? Nomi does it solo. Luke does it to DE Palpatine, who is much much stronger than Ulic. Yes, with help from Leia and a fetus. But by NJO he is much stronger, has much more control, and would be facing a far weaker Palpatine. To me, it isn't unreasonable.

Originally posted by Gideon
It's not enough. In Jedi Knight, one of Palpatine's dark side adepts, Jerec, demonstrated the ability to separate Jedi from the Force entirely without aid. Since Jerec's dark side knowledge came from the Emperor, can we conclude that Palpatine is capable of doing so simply because his subordinate can do it? As far as Skywalker's mastery is concerned, again, he had aid from two individuals with ridiculous innate power. That he can "invent new attacks" is irrelevant; Palpatine has been stated to invent many new powers at his leisure.

Well, Jerec's ability was stated multiple times to be unique. Also, again, Palpatine doesn't display such an ability, while Luke clearly does. I do believe his ability to invent new attacks is relevant - because like Palpatine's ability to invent new techniques - it takes great knowledge of the Force and mastery of current techniques in order to do so. Showing that it would be plausible, given the fact that he's already done so once, to do it again.

Hmm. I may have to concede, here, Enyalus, giving you your first victory. But I refuse to lay down so easily! Give me time, my friend. You'll fear my wrath soon enough... heh heh HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

*does the victory dance*

So this is what it feels like to be you and Faunus...awesomeness.

YOU WILL FEAR ME!

Actually, Legacy of the Force makes it particularly clear that Jacen Solo is capable of cutting people off from the Force. It's entirely possible that Skywalker is able to do it as well.

Then your whole rant was pointless, you douche.

Ah. Didn't know that. Midway through NJO Jacen's self doubt and introspection becomes too annoying/emo, and Caedus is even more whiny.

Needless to say, I didn't pay close attention to LOTF.

Originally posted by Faunus
Then your whole rant was pointless, you douche.

Well, I thought I had a point. And Jacen Solo demonstrates a knowledge of the Force that is easily on par with Skywalker's own and is proven to have been superior in some areas. Enyalus can't prove that Skywalker can still perform the technique without aid... SO I SAY STALEMATE!

Originally posted by Enyalus
Ah. Didn't know that. Midway through NJO Jacen's self doubt and introspection becomes too annoying/emo, and Caedus is even more whiny.

Needless to say, I didn't pay close attention to LOTF.

The way Caedus did it Ben I found impressive because Ben didn't even realize till Caedus pretty much told him about it then he casually touched Ben on the shoulder to reconnect him to the force.

Though I did find Jacen's personality in the first legacy book to be good and the only time Caedus's personality was truly different then most other lunatic sith (who would have done the same thing he did to Kashyyyk) was during in Invincble.

Originally posted by Gideon
Well, I thought I had a point. And Jacen Solo demonstrates a knowledge of the Force that is easily on par with Skywalker's own and is proven to have been superior in some areas. Enyalus can't prove that Skywalker can still perform the technique without aid... SO I SAY STALEMATE!

Oh. That was weak. And reeks of bitterness.