Gay marriage and god in government convo.

Started by dadudemon3 pages

Gay marriage and god in government convo.

This thread is for entertainment. I'm not sure if this should be merged into the Homosexuality thread or not. What is in quote's is what the other dude said. He is also a Mormon.

“So what about my school being 100% christian?”

Unless you went to a Christian school with a prerequisite of being Christian, that’s a lie.

“we can't pray?”

Sure you can. Just not during school. Were you not aware the Christians were forming groups and getting approval to meet before or after school to pray and or share the good word? It’s called a loop hole.

“I think the federal government shouldn't regulate that. There are more people who want to pray and believe in God than those not.”

I agree on both accounts. But why should my personal religious beliefs override the personal beliefs of another, no matter how small the minority? Why should those same overriding beliefs be employed in a system that the other minorities pay for as well? You can’t pray to yourself? You can’t go to school before it start or go after to get your “pray” on?

“Plus the schools are not funded, nor operated by the federal government, they are funded by OUR money property tax and operated by the state government.”

Wrong. They are funded by the federal government, state government, local municipal governments, and in some instances, private donations to a specific school system. The exception COULD be private schools.

“I think things like prayer should be left up to the states, to our vote!”

It is. Elect a Christian evangelical at all climes of government and wish for the best.

“basically a handful of hateful atheists changed the law for millions of others.”

Wrong. I guess you’re not aware that Christians are pushing for these kinds of things. Don’t forget your Muslims, the Jewish, Buddhists, Hindis, etc. However, atheism probably had a larger percentage per capita of “whiners” that the other groups. Now, the Christians complaining about the prayers simply don’t want their children to “worship” with the wrong faith. They don’t want their kids to pray incorrectly, agree to things they don’t believe in, etc. I guess you weren’t aware of that? Now do you see why there should be a separation here? Not even the damned Christians can agree.

“religion played the most important part in our country's beginning, the first 15 universities were owned and operated by religious groups.”

Great. You go be a slave owning Quaker and I’ll stick to Mormonism. Also, you’ve got that wrong. GOD played the most important part in our country’s beginning.

“ You are misintrepting the clause "separation of church state" just like most liberals do.”

Glad I’m not a liberal, then. HAHAHAHAHA! I tested, in political science, as an almost dead on moderate (Centrist, syncretic, all of the above.) According to the professor, even headed rational thinkers are hard to find in politics. Also, like I’ve pointed out before, you’re using the incorrect definition of “Separation of Church and State”. Terms do evolve. The Supreme Court doesn’t agree with you.

“And why should I have to know and support gay's getting married, that's should be left behind close doors!”

Crawl out of that conservative hole of yours. hahaha There are gay bars, gay strip clubs, gay orgy establishments, gay “makeout” destinations, gay targeted movies, etc. Gays are everywhere and they are homo-ing it up all the time, everyday! We can’t stop the gays from being gay. I agree that sex, in any form, should be behind closed doors.

“I don't think the general population should support something so wrong anyway, the USA has to make a stand for moral values, it will rip our nation apart!”

What is this? Are you even aware of why gays want to have legally sanctioned marriage? It most certainly doesn’t sound like it. Just because they chose to sin against God, doesn’t mean that they are any worse than other types of sinners.

“especially people in your classification who are too afraid to stand up and prevent evil from happening!”

You mean the Christian Evangelicals cry about the sanctity of marriage being destroyed when the same exact people crying about marriage being sacred are getting divorced left and right. I am standing up for what’s right. What’s right is ensuring that two people who are going to be together regardless of what I believe is right or wrong, can receive all legal rights and responsibilities owed to them. Our system is currently prejudice and discriminating. Regardless of how you would like to spin it, it’s still oppression.

“this is a free country!”

Excellent. So allow this country’s citizens freedom from oppression and freedom of religion then. That’s what the founding fathers were trying to do, remember?

“but not free from the consequences!”

Correct. When you judge another as unworthy of the same legal rights that you have with your spouse, you are sinning. Plain and simple. Do you think allowing gay marriage is going to create a HUGE massive influx of gay people or something? Sorry, it’s not going to change.

“we have to make a stand for truth!”

Reverend Wright, is that you? Now how should we stand up for this truth, which we get from THE one and only God? That’s right! In our Churches and throughout the world to all those who will hear the word.

“there are consequences for allowing people to do evil things,”

You’re right. People should be forced to do good so that not one soul is lost to the Lord, right? Why didn’t I realize this before? Both of us should storm all the f*gs houses and take their anal lubes and we should storm the houses of the lesbians and take their perverted toys. That will teach’em.

‘and guess who feels it, we do!”

EWWWWW! hahahaha, just messin'.

“we pay for their sins!”

No we don’t. Jesus already has. All we have to do is keep ourselves worthy and give the Word to all those who will have it. Maybe if you said, “Pray for forgiveness of their sins”, you’d be more benevolent. But even if you said that, I’d be asking you, “Hey! Why are you judging them in the first place?”

“i'm sickened by your desire to allow such wrong things to go on,”

Right. haha I’ve agreed with you already. We should start the raids right now.

“to give people the freedom to drag our country into moral sin, our national family will be dragged down because of our inability to tell someone that they can't do something that is wrong!”

Sorry. The gays are still gay. The moral sin is already there. However, are we going to allow ourselves to sin against the sinners? Families are already being shot to hell, literally. And we can still teach those who will hear it, the Word.

“there are unwritten moral laws that we cannot allow to be broken.”

Those laws ARE written. And they ARE being broken. And we HAVE to allow it because those very same laws says we have to.(I'm referring the scriptures, apostles, and prophets here) No matter how much you try, you can’t force the Gospel down someone’s throat. Our church does not even condone it.

“marriage cannot be written by governments.”

I guess you’re not aware that marriage is a government institution then, are you? If you meant, “Eternal Marriage cannot be written by governments.” then you’d be correct.

“people need to be told No sometimes.”

Exactly. NO to oppression, NO to judging others, NO to forcing your religion on others, etc.

“i feel people with ideas similar to yours have no grasp for what this country was intended to be.”

Actually the opposite is true. You have do not grasp that this country was intended to be free of oppression from government with a nice LARGE helping of freedom of religion. What you want is constriction of religion and all ideals that clash with yours are to be discarded and only your religious beliefs exacted over people that are not part of your faith. That’s not even how God himself runs his house.

“I will no allow gay's to have the right to marry if i can stop them,”

Cool. And I’ll passively work to perfect myself and function as a conduit of the Word to all those who will hear. Maybe I can help some of those lost souls you hate so much, partake of the fruit. You know, what our religion tells us to do.

“and no that is not opression,”

Sorry, but it is. You’ve clearly demonstrated that you don’t know why gays need marriage rights.

“that is prevention from dire consequences!”

Sorry, holmes, they’ll be just as gay after they get married as they were before. God’s “wrath” will remain the same. The difference is: You and I can wash our hands of oppression and judgment.

“anyway, let's wrap up this conversation because i have become somewhat emotional,”

Most Christian evangelicals DO get emotional over these types of things. That’s perfectly fine. Christians used to torture and kill homosexuals back in the day. I guess the gays should be thankful that you’re nicer than your predecessors, right? haha

“i hope you see the light someday. peace.”

I have seen the light. Homosexuality is still just as wrong after seeing the light. However, after “seeing the light” I realized that I need to be as free from judgment as possible, free from oppressing others, and more liberal with sharing the gospel to those who will hear it. Forcing others to live the gospel is a horrible and gross perversion of the way the Lord wants things. I’ve already pointed out that it was Lucifer’s idea to force people to live the gospel. I hope you see the light one day. (In Mormonism, we believe that Lucifer was kicked out of heaven with a third of the hosts of heaven because he wanted to force every soul to live the gospel so that all of God's children would make it back to heaven and Lucifer would take all the glory for forcing everyone to do good.)

I thought this conversation was fun.

If you peeps have any suggestion on how I could better argue those points or improve my logic (other than discarding My religion, you poopy heads) let me know. I'm quite sure I didn't argue the points as best as they could have been.

Hate your style of "debating". The other guy's a moron, too.

On the topics. I think everyone should be allowed to pray when they want and where they want in private. What's wrong is if it is funded by the government or ordered by an authority figure. I don't see a reason why a few people can't get together on a School's campus and pray if they like.

Gay Marriage should either be legal or all marriage should be banned.

And I hate your way of "debating" 😐

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hate your style of "debating". The other guy's a moron, too.

On the topics. I think everyone should be allowed to pray when they want and where they want in private. What's wrong is if it is funded by the government or ordered by an authority figure. I don't see a reason why a few people can't get together on a School's campus and pray if they like.

Gay Marriage should either be legal or all marriage should be banned.

And I hate your way of "debating" 😐

How could I have "owned" him better, then? It "mormon to mormon" so there was some preaching going on, of course.

Originally posted by dadudemon
How could I have "owned" him better, then? It "mormon to mormon" so there was some preaching going on, of course.

I don't know how you could have "owned" him better. But I would have based the argument differently I guess. I would have put more emphasis on it being oppression and no one really being hurt. In the first instance I would have just focussed on why the schools shouldn't pay for prayers and tried to agree that prayers as such should obviously not be banned.

Bardock said what I was going to say.

Prayers are not banned from school. Students are allowed to have a silent personal prayer for themselves. What is not allowed is school sponsored religion, including these bullshit be a Muslim for a day events.

"athiesm" had little, if anything, to do with the removal of prayer from school.

Atheists do not have the social, or political, clout or organization to make something like that happen, nor are they numerous enough to make a big difference.

IMHO, groups like the Jehovah's witnesses would have had way more of a role in it.

I could be off, I just don't think atheists in America are powerful enough to change government policy, even in the slightest

Originally posted by Dataflux
Prayers are not banned from school. Students are allowed to have a silent personal prayer for themselves. What is not allowed is school sponsored religion, including these bullshit be a Muslim for a day events.
There's actual "Be a Muslim" events?

No ****ing way.

In 2003 Excelsior Elementary School in Byron, California began holding three week courses that instructed students how to follow Islam. The Federal judge ruled that it was not violating the Constitution.

And there is am organization that is called the Council on American-Islamic Relations that sponsors schools to have Islamic Awareness presentation in many California schools.

I'm just about certain that you can pray in school, teachers just can't lead or suggest prayer session and such.

Originally posted by Dataflux
In 2003 Excelsior Elementary School in Byron, California began holding three week courses that instructed students how to follow Islam. The Federal judge ruled that it was not violating the Constitution.

And there is am organization that is called the Council on American-Islamic Relations that sponsors schools to have Islamic Awareness presentation in many California schools.

That's either encouraging people do be a Muslim (unconstitutional) or humouring Islam (unconstitutional).

What a disgrace.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm just about certain that you can pray in school, teachers just can't lead or suggest prayer session and such.

You can definitely pray in school. However, some places are making it "illegal". Removing prayer from any school sponsored event. I'm fine with that.

I also mentioned "praying to yourself" if you can't hold yours prayers in. There's no reason one can't pray silently in their brains. It doesn't look or sound as schizophrenic that way, anyway.

I was more concerned about homosexual couples being given rights similar to their heterosexual counterparts. (No, Bards, don't make that argument. You know what I mean.)

“religion played the most important part in our country's beginning, the first 15 universities were owned and operated by religious groups.”

Great.

So were the first 13 colonies. "WRONG!" They might have been regulated and owned by certain groups, but the country in which they were founded did not take that all-important moment to conisder those religious beliefs into consideration when grandfathering in their observence of the laws of the contry in which they were supposed to opperate. Jesus was NOT a founding father of the United States of America; despite how much that assumption is furthered by many subscribers to the Christian ideal of America.

If they might have the chance to disagree, the actual voted-on and vote-approved measures of the founding fathers are there for all of us to see. Sadly, in their particular and specific case, the proposals don't involve a state or christian-centric religion. So, their claims to the contrary are as full of substance as is a balloon full of cow shit and hot air...or answered prayers, for that matter. The next foolish poster on this site that thinks they have a link to post that will take it's reader to an actual reference to a single line of the American Constitution or Bill of Rights that illustrates how this country was founded on soley-christian principles has a lot of work to do if they think that link is going to take it's reader to anything of actual substance when it comes to their point that this is a christian nation. If it's real, it won't substantiate a single notion that is actually put forth in the bill of rights or constitution of the United States. For any readers or posters who feel contrary; look it up. There won't be one moment of slack-jawed, mythological consideration of that particular talking point found anywhere in the supposedly chrstian-centric action or words of the supposedly bible thumping-founding-fathers of this country. When they wrote the founding documents of this country, they paid about as much attention to christian mythology as the muslim terrorist that are eating up our duct-tape and bottled water supply.

Why waste time debating such an idiot?

Originally posted by Devil King
So were the first 13 colonies. "WRONG!" They might have been regulated and owned by certain groups, but the country in which they were founded did not take that all-important moment to conisder those religious beliefs into consideration when grandfathering in their observence of the laws of the contry in which they were supposed to opperate. Jesus was NOT a founding father of the United States of America; despite how much that assumption is furthered by many subscribers to the Christian ideal of America.

If they might have the chance to disagree, the actual voted-on and vote-approved measures of the founding fathers are there for all of us to see. Sadly, in their particular and specific case, the proposals don't involve a state or christian-centric religion. So, their claims to the contrary are as full of substance as is a balloon full of cow shit and hot air...or answered prayers, for that matter. The next foolish poster on this site that thinks they have a link to post that will take it's reader to an actual reference to a single line of the American Constitution or Bill of Rights that illustrates how this country was founded on soley-christian principles has a lot of work to do if they think that link is going to take it's reader to anything of actual substance when it comes to their point that this is a christian nation. If it's real, it won't substantiate a single notion that is actually put forth in the bill of rights or constitution of the United States. For any readers or posters who feel contrary; look it up. There won't be one moment of slack-jawed, mythological consideration of that particular talking point found anywhere in the supposedly chrstian-centric action or words of the supposedly bible thumping-founding-fathers of this country. When they wrote the founding documents of this country, they paid about as much attention to christian mythology as the muslim terrorist that are eating up our duct-tape and bottled water supply.

In my response's defense, we're both Mormons. Mormons believe that the "founding fathers" were inspired by God. What I was doing was pointing out his error in assuming that religion is the centerpiece. As a Mormon, he should have known better. What I was doing was guilting him.

He is obviously a horrendous monotheist who refuses to accept any other ideals. If people like him were greater in number, this nation would literally be hell. Thank the Lord that these types are few in numbers.

Originally posted by BackFire
Why waste time debating such an idiot?

Despite these types of peoples' resistance to fairness and logic, you can get through to them and show them their folly. As I explained to Bardock, I used his own religion against him. I'm fairly certain that the Jesus from the new testament wouldn't hate homosexuals nearly as much as these Christian Conservative types. He'd probably protect them. (Remember the story about the adulterous lady about to be stoned? As far as I was aware, adultery is a greater sin than homosexuality...it's the third worst thing you can do...2nd is shedding innocent blood and first is denying the Holy Ghost.)

Originally posted by BackFire
Why waste time debating such an idiot?

Because I allow the other side to dicated where the divide is, based on the lack of common sense or reality enjoyed by the most educated segments of our population. Sadly, that is what "democracy" involves. People who're swayed by the candidate they'd like to have a beer with rather than have a joint with.

Sad, obviously, but reality.

Originally posted by Devil King
Because I allow the other side to dicated where the divide is, based on the lack of common sense or reality enjoyed by the most educated segments of our population. Sadly, that is what "democracy" involves. People who're swayed by the candidate they'd like to have a beer with rather than have a joint with.

Sad, obviously, but reality.

I'm not sure if you're trying say.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm not sure if you're trying say.

Isn't it obvious? Weed > Beer

Originally posted by BackFire
Why waste time debating such an idiot?
Is that debating with or debating as?