Origin of Sith Term

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JediRobin23
What I mean is, The word 'Sith' was never used in the OT.

Did this word originate as an EU thing? or was it in the original books by Lucas?

Jack Daniels
no way man.. SS helped Lucas come up with it!.. eek!
This is where sweersa chimes in with the nightmare phrase..lol

queeq
The word Sith was already in the early drafts of Star Wars, in the Journal of the Whills. For some reason the actual word never made it into the final scripts of the OT. But it's a genuine pre-ANH SW word. Just read the first drafts of SW.

sweersa
Originally posted by queeq
The word Sith was already in the early drafts of Star Wars, in the Journal of the Whills. For some reason the actual word never made it into the final scripts of the OT. But it's a genuine pre-ANH SW word. Just read the first drafts of SW.

Yeah, it is even in the ANH novel, I believe it says "Dark lord of the Sith" or something.

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
no way man.. SS helped Lucas come up with it!.. eek!
This is where sweersa chimes in with the nightmare phrase..lol

The Nightmare Never Ends. Hahaha.

queeq
Right on cue.

Nactous
The first Sith to use the term was Andua, but Revan made it what it was.

sweersa
Originally posted by Nactous
The first Sith to use the term was Andua, but Revan made it what it was.

Who? These people do not exist.

Nactous
Originally posted by sweersa
Who? These people do not exist.

If thats the case then the term has no in story origin...

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by sweersa
Yeah, it is even in the ANH novel, I believe it says "Dark lord of the Sith" or something.


You are correct sir wink


EU aside this is the history of the sith presented in the Phantom Menace novel:

Darth Sidious stood high on a balcony overlooking Coruscant, his concealing black robes making him appear as if he were a creature produced by the night. He stood facing the city, his eyes directed at its lights, at the faint movement of its air traffic, disinterested in his apprentice, Darth Maul, who waited to one side.

His thoughts were of the Sith and of the history of their order.

The Sith had come into being almost two thousand years ago. They were a cult given over to the dark side of the Force, embracing fully the concept that power denied was power wasted. A rogue Jedi Knight had founded the Sith, a singular dissident in an order of harmonious followers, a rebel who understood from the beginning that the real power of the Force lay not in the light, but in the dark. Failing to gain approval for his beliefs from the Council, he had broken with the order, departing with his knowledge and his skills, swearing in secret that he could bring down those who had dismissed him.

He was alone at first, but others from the Jedi order who believed as he did and who had followed him in his study of the dark side soon came over. Others were recruited, and soon the ranks of the Sith swelled to ~ than fifty in number. Disdaining the concepts of cooperation and consensus, relying on the belief that acquisition of power in any form lends strength and yields control, the Sith began to build their cult in opposition to the Jedi. Theirs was not an order created to serve; theirs was an order created to dominate.

Their war with the Jedi was vengeful and furious and ultimately doomed. The rogue Jedi who had founded the Sith order was its nominal leader, but his ambition excluded any sharing of power. His disciples began to conspire against him and each other almost from the beginning, so that the war they instigated was as much with each other as with the Jedi.

In the end, the Sith destroyed themselves. They destroyed their leader first, then each other. What few survived the initial bloodbath were quickly dispatched by watchful Jedi. In a matter of only weeks, all of them died.

All but one.

Darth Maul shifted impatiently. The younger Sith had not yet learned his Master's patience; that would come with time and training. It was patience that had saved the Sith order in the end. It was patience that would give them their victory now over the Jedi.

The Sith who had survived when all of his fellows had died had understood that. He had adopted patience as a virtue when the others had forsaken it. He had adopted cunning, stealth, and subterfuge as the foundation of his way-old Jedi virtues the others had disdained. He stood aside while the Sith tore at each other like kriks and were destroyed. When the carnage was complete, he went into hiding, biding his time, waiting for his chance.

When it was believed all of the Sith were destroyed, he emerged from his concealment. At first he worked alone, but he was growing old and he was the last of his kind. Eventually, he went out in search of an apprentice. Finding one, he trained him to be a Master in his turn, then to find his own apprentice, and so to carry on their work. But there would only be two at anyone time. There would be no repetition of the mistakes of the old order, no struggle between Siths warring for power within the cult. Their common enemy was the Jedi, not each other. It was for their war with the Jedi they must save themselves. The Sith who reinvented the order called himself Darth Bane. A thousand years had passed since the Sith were believed destroyed, and the time they had waited for had come at last.

Lt. Valerian
Originally posted by Nactous
If thats the case then the term has no in story origin...

This is not the correct place for EU material. That's what he was saying. That's all. Now you'll be banned forever.

Queeq?

queeq
Thanks for the info, Elite Hunter. Not really the topic, you'd have to go to the Journal of the Whills to find the origins of the Sith-concept from GL's pov.

Oh and yes, all people referring to EU will be banned to the EU section. wink

Ushgarak
Though in the interest of accuracy I do wish to remind and sundry that GL never wrote any Star Wars books.

SpaceMonkey
Just saying the word "Darth" should ring SITH in your ears. DARk lord of the siTH. Take out the "k lord of the si" and you're left with DAR-TH. Pretty easy.

Lord Knightfa11
darth is also dutch for dark.

Dark Invader=Darth Vader

sweersa
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Though in the interest of accuracy I do wish to remind and sundry that GL never wrote any Star Wars books.

Thanks for the great read Elite Hunter.

Ush, I have an original 1976 copy of the Star Wars paperback novel written by George Lucas.

THE JLRTENJAC
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
darth is also dutch for dark.

Dark Invader=Darth Vader

Hmm, I thought that Vader=father in dutch... but then again I have been wrong before.

Originally posted by JediRobin23
What I mean is, The word 'Sith' was never used in the OT.

Did this word originate as an EU thing? or was it in the original books by Lucas?

If you wanna go way back, I believe that sith was also a word in greek mythology... Or it was something that sounded like sith... I need to go watch that documentary again.

JediRobin23
Originally posted by queeq
The word Sith was already in the early drafts of Star Wars, in the Journal of the Whills. For some reason the actual word never made it into the final scripts of the OT. But it's a genuine pre-ANH SW word. Just read the first drafts of SW.

Where do I find the first drafts of Star wars? A reliable source would help answer this question. Although I get the feeling that this word was used in EU and George Lucas took it from them

queeq
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
darth is also dutch for dark.

Dark Invader=Darth Vader

Vader is Dutch for Dark, but I have always wondered if GL knew that when he came up with the name or that it was a nice coincidence later on.

Darth is NOT Dutch for dark. Darth doesn't mean anything, as far as I know. I think it just sounds cool.

Early drafts of SW can be found all over the internet. Just google around, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to find them.

Lord Knightfa11
oops lol >.> i thought that darth=dark

queeq
You lose SW points for that one. wink

Lord Knightfa11
*commits sepuku*

queeq
That's not the SW way.

JediRobin23
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith

says it was in the script and novel as Darth. I take it thats where Darth came up

queeq
It was in the earlier drafts already, journal of the Whills etc. Wiki fails to mention the pre-ANHScript and ditto novelisation sources.

Red Nemesis
Just this morning as I was waking up it hit me- the word SITH isn't used in the OT. Was it widely known soon after the films? In my house we've known it since before TPM- meaning that the word had leaked into the lexicon before Ep. 1.

queeq
It was in the novel and even in the comic books. It wasn't in the OT FILMS... but it was in the other OT sources.

Jack Daniels
Originally posted by queeq
Vader is Dutch for Dark, but I have always wondered if GL knew that when he came up with the name or that it was a nice coincidence later on.

Darth is NOT Dutch for dark. Darth doesn't mean anything, as far as I know. I think it just sounds cool.

Early drafts of SW can be found all over the internet. Just google around, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to find them.
found this while I was reading some sw stories..but supposedly in rolling stones june 2 2005 an interview with Lucas....Lucas said darth vader means dark father...anyone else heard this or have a collection of rolling stones magazines to verify this is lucas words? use to have a buddy that collected rolling stones but they were older and havent seen him in years or I would call him..well maybe not this early but anyways

Nactous
*Cough*Revan*Cough*

queeq
Originally posted by Jack Daniels
found this while I was reading some sw stories..but supposedly in rolling stones june 2 2005 an interview with Lucas....Lucas said darth vader means dark father...anyone else heard this or have a collection of rolling stones magazines to verify this is lucas words? use to have a buddy that collected rolling stones but they were older and havent seen him in years or I would call him..well maybe not this early but anyways

Dunno. I doubt that's where the name came from when wrote Journal of the Whills though... It's quite vague. And Darth still doesn't mean Dark in Dutch.

Jovan
I highly doubt it...
it's not canon, but wookiepedia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_vader) hasn't gotten it in their wiki.

as said: it's not canon, but there is no reason they would miss that one out

Hybris
Vader = father but Darth just sounds a bit like dark i guess.

queeq
Vader is teh Dutch word for father. No doubt there. The only thing unresolved is whether Lucas intentionally used the Dutch word for Vader's name, or taht it's something else, like short for INvader. We just don't know.

sweersa
Originally posted by queeq
Vader is teh Dutch word for father. No doubt there. The only thing unresolved is whether Lucas intentionally used the Dutch word for Vader's name, or taht it's something else, like short for INvader. We just don't know.

Hehe, Darth Invader.

queeq
Darth Insidious.... There is a pattern.

As well as the classic Darth Inmaul, a Sith addicted to shopping.

Jack Daniels
wonder if there is a rolling stones magazine forum?..lol...something to google someday......maybe they will make darth a real word meaning dark...I mean homer got inducted into the dictionary with doh...lol..

sweersa
Originally posted by queeq
Darth Insidious.... There is a pattern.

As well as the classic Darth Inmaul, a Sith addicted to shopping.

Hahaha. He spent a little too much time in the tattoo shop.

queeq
Indeed.

Jack Daniels
Originally posted by sweersa
Hahaha. He spent a little too much time in the tattoo shop.
Darth Insidious , Darth Inmaul , or were u talking about the boss?..lol

queeq
No comment! wink

Jack Daniels
this was just listed as an attack site from adzgalore....kmc is attacking me...???well I wouldnt want to be attacked from any other site!!! does this mean Im busted for looking at that big boob site that 99% chance gave me spyware..lol...hey I got a pop up and she had really nice bewbs..lol..can you blame me....

queeq
Yes, we can.

Jack Daniels
embarrasment oh ...anyways it came from a free downloaded game grrr...guess it was not so free mad

sweersa
Originally posted by Jack Daniels
embarrasment oh ...anyways it came from a free downloaded game grrr...guess it was not so free mad

Gotta love open sores, er, I mean open source.

Hahaha.

queeq
laughing out loud

sweersa
lol Some things are free for a reason. Communism in software is an example, hehehe.

K-Dog
Don't know if this has been mentioned, and I can not verify it, but about 10 yrs ago a big star wars fan told me that G.L.'s young kid came up with the term "sith" so G.L. used it from there.

Jack Daniels
hmm who shall google this one?..Im too drunk 2nite..lol

queeq
Errr... the term Sith was already invented by Lucas in the early 70s... Must have been in an earlier life of his kid then.

Lucas did invent some stuff on his own you know.

Jack Daniels
I thought sweersa gave him all his ideas

sweersa
Originally posted by Jack Daniels
I thought sweersa gave him all his ideas

Of course.

Originally posted by queeq
Errr... the term Sith was already invented by Lucas in the early 70s... Must have been in an earlier life of his kid then.

Lucas did invent some stuff on his own you know.

Absolutely, he didn't invent it for the Prequels.

Jack Daniels
no that was for 7 , 8, & 9 ..lol

sweersa
Originally posted by Jack Daniels
no that was for 7 , 8, & 9 ..lol

Oh yeah, except you will see Dark Jedi in those.

Jaeh.is.Awesome
would there be Gray Jedi as well?

sweersa
Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
would there be Gray Jedi as well?

Yes, we will cast Harrison Ford to play that one.

queeq
Originally posted by Jack Daniels
I thought sweersa gave him all his ideas

Sweersa IS Lucas.... and Super Shadow.. Get it now?

Jack Daniels
lemme drink on it

sweersa
Originally posted by queeq
Sweersa IS Lucas.... and Super Shadow.. Get it now?

Of course.

Hahaha.

queeq
Laughing it away doesn't work.

sweersa
Originally posted by queeq
Laughing it away doesn't work.

*cries*

Jack Daniels
doont cry just drink

queeq
Hehehe... got him to cry.

sweersa
Originally posted by queeq
Hehehe... got him to cry.

You, you monster!

Jack Daniels
drink your sorrows away!

queeq
Ka-ching!

sweersa
Originally posted by queeq
Ka-ching!

I wonder what happens if I reported a Mod. Hehe.

queeq
I do. evil face

sweersa
Originally posted by queeq
I do. evil face

Hehe. Lets make this happen.

queeq
Trust me, you don't want it too happen.

sweersa
Originally posted by queeq
Trust me, you don't want it too happen.

You know you like it.

K-Dog
Originally posted by K-Dog
Don't know if this has been mentioned, and I can not verify it, but about 10 yrs ago a big star wars fan told me that G.L.'s young kid came up with the term "sith" so G.L. used it from there.

Yes, I meant that I was told this 10 yrs ago, not that GL's kid came up with it 10 yrs ago. I honestly do not even know his kids' ages or anything about it though.

queeq
Hmmm... I doubt it anyway.

sweersa
GL adopts his children. One of them is a Hutt and can be seen in a few Star Wars movies. She even had a speaking scene that was cut.

Jaeh.is.Awesome
Originally posted by sweersa
GL adopts his children. One of them is a Hutt and can be seen in a few Star Wars movies. She even had a speaking scene that was cut.

omgosh a hutt! I want one - where do you get them?

oh wait. I don't want a slimy 'ol hutt. know a place where i can get those living breathing ewok teddies?

Jack Daniels
I think Queeq has a couple for rent dont know if they are for sale though..lol

queeq
They have rabies though. Do you care?

Jaeh.is.Awesome
rabies makes everything better... do they bite?

queeq
Very.

sweersa
Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
rabies makes everything better... do they bite?

Yes, I would imagine.

Jack Daniels
Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
rabies makes everything better... do they bite?
only when you are wearing a carrie fischer slave outfit

queeq
Errr.... you have some odd fantasies, JD. Better get drunk again, you make more sense then.

Jack Daniels
was I sober then..sorry

Jaeh.is.Awesome
hah.


the offer still stands, though? Maybe I could use them to chase away soft-hearted burglars...

queeq
Show us how it works then

Jaeh.is.Awesome
they get attracted to the seemingly harmless walking teddy bears, go "awwwwww", and the ewoks attack.

I might have a mess in my front lawn, or in my backyard, but if it works, it works...

Jack Daniels
ahh just get a couple chihuahuas..lol..save the ewoks for the non soft hearted..lol

Jaeh.is.Awesome
but chihuahuas are of the darkside!


...come to think of it, ewoks might be too....

queeq
Babies don't fight.

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