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I did a search and no threads came up, so forgive me if this is a duplicate...

Apparently there's going to be a book series set two years Legacy of the Force and also following Millenium Falcon, known as Fate of the Jedi. It'll be 9 books, all hardcover, written in a three-author cycle, just like LOTF.

Only this time, there's no Karen Traviss. She was originally supposed to write three of the books, but she was too busy to write them, so the three authors will be Aaron Allston, someone named Christie Golden, and Troy Denning.

The series will involve "heroic journeys for the galaxy's most beloved characters", with Luke and Ben going off on "the journey of a lifetime" while the rest of the gang that wasn't killed in LOTF deals with the aftermath of the Second Galactic Civil War, of the LOTF series. It will apparently launch a "huge story arc".

The books will be published starting next April and ending in April 2011. The first book will be Outcast , by Aaron Allston, available on April 7 2009, then Omen , by Christie Golden, on July 7 2009.

For more information, look it up on Wookieepedia, as it gives a few good links.

Sounds to me like a second attempt at LOTF...

Discuss!

I've heard about this, hopefully it is better then LOTF, the authors screwed up Caedus's character, killed off Mara, Jade and Gilliad Palleon, three good characters before the LOTF were wasted, oh and the mandos were riduclous
Originally posted by Agent White
Only this time, there's no Karen Traviss.

THANK GOD


One can only hope it's better.

As for the series itself, I'm worries about who will be the antagonist(s) in the series, In my opinion it is too early for it to be The One Sith order(this would still be one of my first guesses), another jedi turning dark just happened and we had to series prior to LOTF involving alien wars.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Future_novels
Here is a list of other future novels too if anyone is interested. I'm looking forward to reading the Jaden Korr novel which sounds pretty interesting.

I think everyone who's been in the movies should be left alone at this point.

I hope that they try to show the beginnings of what the galaxy will look like during the LOTF comics era.

also KILL Boba Fett Traviss made him into a dooshbag.

Look forward to this

Looking forward to it assuming we are allowed to read a lot on Luke and Ben's journey.

A douchebag? No, Traviss has tried to put him in a (FAR TOO) positive light.

In retaliation for her obscene murder of Gilad Pellaeon and Mara Jade Skywalker, I submit that Timothy Zahn concludes FotJ with a novel that ends in Mandalore, the Mandalorian culture, and Boba Fett being forever destroyed by a vengeful Jedi.

I submit that the antagonist of this saga be none other than the Galactic Emperor himself.

Fresh some WTFpwning everything in the realm of Chaos, he's able to drain the power from all other Dark Sider spirits located there and thus fully resurrect himself - ready to conquer the galaxy yet again!

My guess is it is still going to be the sith as the antagonist in some form. I bet Caedus's spirit will make some type of an appearance in the series.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I submit that the antagonist of this saga be none other than the Galactic Emperor himself.

Not unless you intend to burn DE and its sequels. Which is fine. But I, one of Palpatine's staunchest fans, can only tolerate His Imperial Majesty being resurrected in one effort.

Though, many years after would be a lot more compelling than immediately after his death at Endor. Make it as though Anakin's sacrifice really ****ed with him.



So essentially Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, but Palpatine vice Ragnos?

Originally posted by Gideon
Not unless you intend to burn DE and its sequels. Which is fine. But I, one of Palpatine's staunchest fans, can only tolerate His Imperial Majesty being resurrected in one effort.

Though, many years after would be a lot more compelling than immediately after his death at Endor. Make it as though Anakin's sacrifice really ****ed with him.



So essentially Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, but Palpatine vice Ragnos?

Burning DE sounds like a good idea to me...and its sequals were pathetic, as even you should agree.

But I suppose it'd be like JA...except, you know...returning from Chaos and not Korriban. And being Palpatine, who we know about, instead of Ragnos, who we don't.

Honestly, I think your idea is a proper one. It would be more fitting that, rather than a mere six years after Endor, it would take Palpatine decades to recover from the surprise betrayal. And it could either be retconned to the last final bulkwark of the Empire or a post-mortem attempt to retake the galaxy long after the Remnant has made peace with the GA.

And I flipped through DE II today at Books-A-Million. And it really was a shitty comic. The names, the characters, the dialogue...

Originally posted by Gideon
And I flipped through DE II today at Books-A-Million. And it really was a shitty comic. The names, the characters, the dialogue...

Yeah. They start you off in the middle of a war...and its actually boring. I don't even know how that managed to do that.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I submit that the antagonist of this saga be none other than the Galactic Emperor himself.

Fresh some WTFpwning everything in the realm of Chaos, he's able to drain the power from all other Dark Sider spirits located there and thus fully resurrect himself - ready to conquer the galaxy yet again! ...

Goodbye.

You do realize that initial post was sarcasm...as my advocacy for burning DE later on should be evidence of?

Yes. But the idea is... painful.

Did you just reply to 3 threads in the span of...15 seconds?

Omnipresence.

Join me, and together we can rule the -- oh wait. I already do.

*happy dance*

Yes, yes...but the Dark Side is isolating.

Nuh-uh. I have a posse.

Nah, I like his idea. Get rid of DE and attempt to resurrect Palpatine decades later. It happened for Ragnos, who is a shitstain in terms of importance. Why not the great one himself?

Ragnos wasn't killed by the Chosen One, waited five thousand years instead of six, and didn't even get resurrected.

Originally posted by Faunus
Ragnos wasn't killed by the Chosen One,

So if the person who kills you is of great importance, you're even deader than someone murdered by a common thug? WTF.



Hey, that's what I'm saying! Instead of six measly years, put it back decades.

Besides, why should they have similar passage of time? Ragnos is, again, fecal matter compared to His Imperial Majesty. Palpatine was the greater Sith, I see no reason why he should have to wait in line.



We could even do that! The attempt is botched and someone dryhumps his spirit back to the netherworld.

Originally posted by Gideon
So if the person who kills you is of great importance, you're even deader than someone murdered by a common thug? WTF. Prophecy, much? Palpatine's death was supposed to mean something.

Because he died, and he should stay dead.

Then what's the point? A meaningless cameo?

Originally posted by Faunus
Prophecy, much? Palpatine's death was supposed to mean something.

Well you might as well end the entire saga with him, then. If taken as it was intended by George Lucas, Palpatine's death not only balanced the Force, wiped out the Sith (for good), but supposedly did away with all evil.



Tell that to Ragnos, Kun, Andeddu, Sion, and that Bastard Bevel Lemelisk.



You're telling me that Ragnos's cameo wasn't the very definition of badass? Hell, I don't give two shits about the character and I had a visible erection.

Originally posted by Gideon
that Bastard Bevel Lemelisk. Hey, that one wasn't really his fault.

Also hoping that Ben continues to grow with the force as well as his saber skills

also hoping Ben dies. I hate ben. He's like.... i dunno, Anakin Skywalker all over again... all emotional and whiny.

Thank you. I was waiting to hear that from someone.

I think the Skywalker and Solo families should be left alone. Haven't they done enough for the Galaxy? Move on...

Originally posted by Enyalus
Burning DE sounds like a good idea to me...and its sequals were pathetic, as even you should agree.

Even i agree. I only saviour the publius version.

Palpatine returning would suck balls. Hairy Man Balls

Allana should grow up to be the next Luke, not ben. That kid is just a freaking retard.

And a Nomi Sunrider novel sounds great, finally get some perspective on the powerlevels back in the good ol' times.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
I think the Skywalker and Solo families should be left alone. Haven't they done enough for the Galaxy? Move on...


Nah, you know GL will continue to bleed the Skywalker/Solo clan.

But hopefully, just hopefully in this new series perhaps a new Jedi will emerge and be just as good as Luke or a new Sith will be just as good as other Sith of the past

They just need to invent a new order of Dark Jedi. Maybe like "hmm... the Sith truly did at Endor. Subsequent attempts to restore the Sith have ended in failure. So let's be progressive and start a NEW ORDER completely separate from the Sith."

I am not eager for this series. It sounds as if they will be following the same formula that they used for LOTF. I don't see why they feel the need to drag out the story over nine whole books, when they could put a lot of good work into a trilogy. The Thrawn Trilogy, anyone?

Aaron Allston is responsible for the writing some of the X-Wing novels, and Enemy Lines. Betrayal, Exile, and Fury are his works from LOTF. I haven't read those.

Christie Golden... has never written a Star Wars work.

Troy Denning composed the Dark Nest trilogy, Star by Star, Tatooine Ghost, then Tempest, Inferno, and Invincible from LOTF. Among some others.

So yeah... I haven't read most (if any) of those works, but I decided to outline the authors to see what people thought...

thing is tho... everyone on this forum will probably read all 9... chances are, most of us will by SOME of them(though i'm finding out recently that i can just sit in barnes and noble literally for HOURS and they will never kick you out. lol)

so thats why they keep making them. Is there a release date yet for the first one?

Originally posted by truejedi
thing is tho... everyone on this forum will probably read all 9... chances are, most of us will by SOME of them(though i'm finding out recently that i can just sit in barnes and noble literally for HOURS and they will never kick you out. lol)

so thats why they keep making them. Is there a release date yet for the first one?

I just raid my library (city) whenever I need a quote. I see no need to buy a book that I will read in 2 hours and then only need to access to prove strangers wrong on the internet. (YAY LIBRARY)

Some point in 2009, I forget what the website said.

I will say that I have never actually picked up any of the LOTF books. Their story did not interest me and it just continues to butcher the Star Wars Universe. Thank you Wookieepedia for synopses.

Ha! I do the same thing in Waterstones! Isn't it just the worst thing when they judge you with their eyes. I also read Manga their for hours at a time. So far I've got through 20 books of Bleach without paying jack.

Originally posted by truejedi
thing is tho... everyone on this forum will probably read all 9... chances are, most of us will by SOME of them(though i'm finding out recently that i can just sit in barnes and noble literally for HOURS and they will never kick you out. lol)

so thats why they keep making them. Is there a release date yet for the first one?

I've only read three of the LOTF books.

eh,i won't lie, actually am one of the few who really enjoyed LOTF, though i thought they had one major problem: At any time, Luke could have gone and killed Jacen, and ended all the chaos. That's made abundantly clear, instead, he just doesn't, and so the war isn't going to end.... The book could have been wrapped up in the 5th or 6th book ( i don't remember) when luke figured out what jacen was, (a sith) and went and killed him... instead it seemed to drag out pointlessly with the point always in the back of our minds that luke would go end it if it ever REALLY got out of hand.

Originally posted by truejedi
eh,i won't lie, actually am one of the few who really enjoyed LOTF, though i thought they had one major problem: At any time, Luke could have gone and killed Jacen, and ended all the chaos. That's made abundantly clear, instead, he just doesn't, and so the war isn't going to end.... The book could have been wrapped up in the 5th or 6th book ( i don't remember) when luke figured out what jacen was, (a sith) and went and killed him... instead it seemed to drag out pointlessly with the point always in the back of our minds that luke would go end it if it ever REALLY got out of hand.

That's because Luke is one of those annoying heroes bound by the black and white BS of the Force.

Originally posted by truejedi
eh,i won't lie, actually am one of the few who really enjoyed LOTF, though i thought they had one major problem: At any time, Luke could have gone and killed Jacen, and ended all the chaos. That's made abundantly clear, instead, he just doesn't, and so the war isn't going to end.... The book could have been wrapped up in the 5th or 6th book ( i don't remember) when luke figured out what jacen was, (a sith) and went and killed him... instead it seemed to drag out pointlessly with the point always in the back of our minds that luke would go end it if it ever REALLY got out of hand.

Funny how PIS is a very plausible concept to you when it pertains to Luke Skywalker.

the galaxy wasn't in that much danger and we all knew it. every single confrontation between luke and jacen ended up with jacen injured and humiliated. If instead, the confrontations between luke and jacen had ended in draws, you would have a point, but considering we actually have fights between jacen and luke that jacen loses, and that one extremely humiliating scene between them where Jacen never gets out of his chair, i would say it wouldn't be considered PIS to call Luke > Jacen. All sources back it up, AND it is clearly described in book after book.

If Jacen made luke retreat over and over, and i argued that we all knew Luke was still > than jacen even though Luke was losing, because of other sources, THEN I would have indeed used PIS, which is, lol against the rules.... ( i never meant to argue for a new rule! )

Christ, you have no understanding of PIS, and it's very easy. Jacen Solo getting schooled by Luke Skywalker multiple times and the flimsy excuse he had for not murdering Jacen is plot induced stupidity. They couldn't have Skywalker murdering Jacen since they had one more book to fill and the excuse was weak. It's PIS.

actually.... wouldn't acting as though i had NO IDEA why luke didn't kill jacen, (like i did in my original post) be the opposite of using PIS?

Originally posted by truejedi
actually.... wouldn't acting as though i had NO IDEA why luke didn't kill jacen, (like i did in my original post) be the opposite of using PIS?

I'm beginning to think that you're hopeless.

The situation you described earlier in your frustration is PIS. Luke Skywalker manhandling Jacen on his own Destroyer and then butchering Lumiya... yet... he doesn't want to finish the job because it might send him to the dark side? Flimsy, flimsy excuse. Used as a means to keep Skywalker from hunting him down (all the while writing him as an advocate of Caedus's assassination) so that the plot won't abruptly end with the villain's death.

P
I
S

I suggest you get it tattooed to a random appendage.

lol, no, i KNOW that it COULD BE explained by that. Thats what you are saying, but i DIDN'T originally explain it by that by acting like i didn't know why. Yeah, i agree, of course it could be explained a plot-ploy, and then they write 3 more books, and surely that WAS the explanation.

I thought you were saying i had described it as PIS. when, i had offered NO explanation, much less PIS.

Personally, I think they could have told the story of LOTF in less books.

Originally posted by truejedi
lol, no, i KNOW that it COULD BE explained by that. Thats what you are saying, but i DIDN'T originally explain it by that by acting like i didn't know why. Yeah, i agree, of course it could be explained a plot-ploy, and then they write 3 more books, and surely that WAS the explanation.

I thought you were saying i had described it as PIS. when, i had offered NO explanation, much less PIS.

And yet the idea of the Empire's highly trained shocktroops not hitting a neophyte, a politician, and Han Solo is a sign of their general incompetence?

See, that's the problem I have. You're willing to entertain the idea of PIS for Luke Skywalker but not for stormtroopers. And it baffles me as to why. Since they are both clearly PIS.


Edit: The nine book series is a dumb idea. We need more stand alones or trilogies.

PIS doesn't apply.

Originally posted by Captain REX
PIS doesn't apply.

Yes it does.

are you saying, i should assume that because Luke never went and defeated Jacen, that he COULDN'T have?

From your examples, you were saying that something that DID happen, SHOULDN'T have happened. (Ewoks win) Therefore, contradicting an actual event, and putting an intepretation above a happening.

I'm not arguing that something that DID happen shouldn't have happened, i'm arguing something that DIDN'T happen, could have. It contradicts nothing. I wouldn't call that entertaining PIS, its USING canon to form an opinion about something that NEVER happened in-universe.

If Luke and Jacen had fought, and Jacen won, but every other evidence from all the other books backed up that luke was better, i would be wrong to try to claim that Luke's loss was a fluke. But that never happened. (which is equivalent to you calling the GE'S loss to the Rebel alliance a fluke)

...

Omg.

Like, seriously. OH EM GEE.

Plot induced stupidity is just that. Stupidity that derives from the demands of the plot. Luke Skywalker > Darth Caedus. This is proven. Darth Caedus murdered Luke Skywalker's wife. This is proven. Luke Skywalker murdered his former lover out of vengeance when he wrongfully assumed she was responsible for his wife's death. This is proven. Luke Skywalker attacked Caedus without provocation and went for the kill. This is proven. At the end, Luke Skywalker didn't want to attack Caedus because of a stupid excuse. Why? Because the authors couldn't have him running off and butchering him.

PLOT. INDUCED. STUPIDITY.

The same thing as highly trained shocktroops being conveniently poor shots when the lives of the three intrepid heroes are on the line.

but if caedus DOMINATED luke in a one-on-one duel, Killed him without being injured, we would have to re-think the idea that Luke > caedus! We could in no way throw out the duel as an aberration. It would be canon fact. If caedus dispatched luke with ease, with no outside help, or no special circumstances, then we on this forum would have to put Caedus above luke in combat. We would hate it, we would quit star wars, but to be accurate it would have to be done. We couldn't throw it out simply because it "shouldn't have happened"

Originally posted by truejedi
but if caedus DOMINATED luke in a one-on-one duel, Killed him without being injured, we would have to re-think the idea that Luke > caedus! We could in no way throw out the duel as an aberration. It would be canon fact. If caedus dispatched luke with ease, with no outside help, or no special circumstances, then we on this forum would have to put Caedus above luke in combat. We would hate it, we would quit star wars, but to be accurate it would have to be done. We couldn't throw it out simply because it "shouldn't have happened"

We're done.

happily i will take the last word. and go on about my very small life with this:

Originally posted by truejedi
happily i will take the last word. and go on about my very small life with this:

You're on ignore.

And as for the thread, these nine novel series need to go. Stick with stand alone or trilogies.

once again, in case anybody failed to notice, a sure way to piss gideon off to unreasonable end is to simply disagree with him...

I was joking, you moron.

ah, my mistake.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Personally, I think they could have told the story of LOTF in less books.
Well at least it wasn't a 27 book series like NJO.

I think they could have gotten rid of Revelation,Exile and Tempest. Or at least shorten it to 2 books instead of the 4 of them.

was it really 27!?!? man. i knew there was a lot of them, i never counted though.

Originally posted by Gideon
Christ, you have no understanding of PIS, and it's very easy. Jacen Solo getting schooled by Luke Skywalker multiple times and the flimsy excuse he had for not murdering Jacen is plot induced stupidity. They couldn't have Skywalker murdering Jacen since they had one more book to fill and the excuse was weak. It's PIS.

I'm sorry to revive this, but I have to side with truejedi. The only part of this that was PIS was the excuse used to justify it, not the action itself. The idea that Luke > Caedus is valid, but the idea that he wouldn't kill him is PIS. I don't see where the argument is coming from.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I'm sorry to revive this, but I have to side with truejedi. The only part of this that was PIS was the excuse used to justify it, not the action itself. The idea that Luke > Caedus is valid, but the idea that he wouldn't kill him is PIS. I don't see where the argument is coming from.

You say that you side with truejedi and yet everything you 'agree' with is my point. No one said that Skywalker's superiority was PIS.

No need for the insults and antagonizing, gentlemen.

And I'm sorry, I meant that PIS didn't apply for stormtroopers. The inability of the writers to create a challenge for Luke may have involved PIS, yes. The stormtroopers is a whole other barrel of monkeys that we've already discussed and don't need to discuss again here.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I'm sorry to revive this, but I have to side with truejedi. The only part of this that was PIS was the excuse used to justify it, not the action itself. The idea that Luke > Caedus is valid, but the idea that he wouldn't kill him is PIS. I don't see where the argument is coming from.


Originally posted by Gideon
Christ, you have no understanding of PIS, and it's very easy. Jacen Solo getting schooled by Luke Skywalker multiple times and the flimsy excuse he had for not murdering Jacen is plot induced stupidity. They couldn't have Skywalker murdering Jacen since they had one more book to fill and the excuse was weak. It's PIS.

We all agree about the PIS residing in the excuse, rather than the fact Luke > Caedus. Why are you so confrontational? We're not really arguing at all. With all due respect, TrueJedi's ability to maintain his composure cast him in a more favorable light than all of your ranting and ignoring.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
We all agree about the PIS residing in the excuse, rather than the fact Luke > Caedus.



So you 'revived' a dead argument to inform us that you agree with truejedi on a point that I didn't contest. You then go on to say that you have no idea where the argument is coming from. In essence, your whole statement was entirely irrelevant. Truejedi was going round and round in circles with me, not comprehending basic PIS. Meanwhile, everyone else minus REX and Ushgarak understand it just fine.



Three years of dealing with presumably intelligent people getting it wrong. Disagreeing with me on a simple topic of a simple concept is bound to annoy me. But, for the record? I'm not the only one.



In that you don't have an argument, I agree. Your post was essentially "LOLZ SORRY TO REVIVE A SOURCE OF FRUSTRATION FOR EVERYONE PRESENT OVER A SIMPLE SUBJECT BUT I JUST WANTED TO INFORM YOU, GIDEON, THAT I AGREE WITH TRUEJEDI ON POINT X" -- Point X being something I didn't contest nor argue against, but was in fact the entire crux of my argument.

Basically, you completely missed the point of the debate (like Truejedi) completely. If that's the case, and it's already dead, why on Earth would you offer your opinion?



Because he's nice? Well, ignorance is bliss. With all due respect to you two, I've been doing this for three years, once lauded for my patient persistence. You're an intelligent guy. Intelligent enough to correct my grammar yet you somehow bypassed an easily understood point. If that is the case, you have no business offering your opinion unless it is "Gideon, please explain this to me."

lol, Gideon, in a way, you crack me up. I pretty clearly explained why one case was PIS, while the other wasn't. I explained how YOUR use of PIS was contradicting canon, while mine wasn't. If you disagree with that assessement, fine, but to keep pretending i had no idea what you were talking about simply because i didn't draw the same conclusion as yourself serves only as a waste of time. I think your comeback to the fact that your example disregarded canon, while mine was supposing what would happen in an event that didn't actually occur was "we are done here."
My Caedus scenario, dueling luke was relevant, because it was the other side of the coin that you keep trying to force down our throats. If, in fact, Caedus beat luke, in a straight-up fight, I would admit Caedus was superior, while you might gather your vast amount of information indicating the opposite of that, and claim caedus NEEDED to defeat luke in order to, say bring about the order of the one Sith in LOTF comics.
You obviously missed my entire point there, and then go about claiming I don't understand yours...

In fact, you included EVERYONE who didn't agree with you as the ones who "didn't understand the concept." (rex, ush, nemesis, myself) I know it has probably never occurred to you before, but it is possible for you to be wrong.... and if thats too much of a stretch, at least accept that everyone isn't going to agree with you at the end of the day on every issue.

i was going to let this go, but when you told nemesis that HE obviously didn't understand the concept becasue HE didn't agree with you either, a light came on and i started to see the pattern.

Let me make sure i have it right:
If we agree with you, we are intelligent, and understand simple concepts, but if we don't, we not only disagree, but we disagree because we are too thick to have ANY idea what you are talking about? If thats correct and i finally understand, we can let this thread die.

oh, and you aren't the only one who has been doing this for 3 years. how that's relevant i'm not sure tho...

Originally posted by Gideon
So you 'revived' a dead argument to inform us that you agree with truejedi on a point that I didn't contest. You then go on to say that you have no idea where the argument is coming from. In essence, your whole statement was entirely irrelevant. Truejedi was going round and round in circles with me, not comprehending basic PIS. Meanwhile, everyone else minus REX and Ushgarak understand it just fine.
Wow. Spaz out much? I put in the 'revive' statement to say that while the matter was mostly settled, I thought I'd add my opinion. This is the internet, and I'll intrude on any argument that interests me. Your argument thus far has essentially been:
Luke not killing Caedus is PIS. This means that the Stormtrooper's inaccuracy can also be defended via PIS.
TrueJedi is rebelling against the concept of PIS, and the mods support this action. There is no reason to dilute the internal consistency of Star Wars any further than is necessary. PIS dissolves the foundations of comparison that you yourself sought to establish in the Project Holocron thread. The only response to PIS is to say that Star Wars is only fiction. This defeats the purpose of our entire forum, so we can't use it. PIS makes all of the arguments totally subjective. Its possible to use PIS to discard any feat that does not enhance one's own position, which is why it must be banned. It is not a valuable tool in a comparison based on feats.

Originally posted by Gideon

Three years of dealing with presumably intelligent people getting it wrong. Disagreeing with me on a simple topic of a simple concept is bound to annoy me. But, for the record? I'm not the only one.
So because you aren't the only one to B**** at us for disagreeing with you, it makes it O.K? Bear in mind you aren't arguing with the same people. Your frustration with them should not change how you deal with us. Also, flying off the handle like that is immature and does not reflect positively on you. You look much smarter when you take the time to elaborate on your position, rather than use your ignore function like a club.

Edit: Quite frankly, the amount of time you've been doing this is irrelevant to me. I have discerned from the months that I have been here that you pay attention to detail, and are generally intelligent. This does not make you infallible, and perhaps you should place less emphasis on perfect consensus, and more on an open exchange of ideas.

actually, after i posted about Gideon not being the only one to be here 3 years i went to check and make sure i was right on that. Today happens to be the day 3 years ago that i registered. So happy KMC birthday to me. lol.

Nice. You cut it close.


Happy birthday (kinda- I guess...)

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Wow. Spaz out much?

That you would consider my response to you as a 'spaz out' shows how very little you know of me around here. I can assure you with the most profound candor imaginable that none of this is me being a spaz. It's more or less me being a little aggressive and impatient. Not flipping out.



Except that your opinion offered nothing new to what was a dead issue. Moreover, in some state of apparent ignorance, you attempted to state it as though you disagreed with what I said. Despite that, what you ended up posting did nothing to contradict my argument.

That brought about your so-called 'spaz' moment, for which you were rightfully held accountable. For someone who prides himself in grammar, perhaps you could have summoned the ability to word your stance better. "Cover thy ass" is one of my mottos, as you no doubt have witnessed from my arguments with Enyalus. You left your ass, in all of its pale and pockmarked glory, bare for all of us to see.



Great.

Well, welcome to the internet. I'll happily bring anyone to task, including you, for perceived grievances and errors in judgment.

Consider this an e-sport, raise your game or get off the court. Catchy, eh? Long story short: if you're going to "intrude" and give your opinion, stop bitching when people like me get annoyed and call you out for offering nothing new.



No, my argument has been:

Truejedi happily accepts PIS when it pertains to behaviors and actions that contradict his status for the beloved Luke Skywalker, but not when the same occurs to stormtroopers. Perhaps the factors were REX and Ush, I don't know.



Truejedi doesn't rebel against the concept of PIS. Not when it supports his character.

And don't appeal to authority, it's a logical fallacy. Are you here to help his point or crush it further?



There is rarely consistency. I created Project Holocron as one of the reasons. My methodology is the suspension of disbelief and working towards a logical conclusion. The idea that "lolz stormtroopers suck" is wrong, regardless if REX and Ush campaign it from here on out. The idea that "stormtroopers rock except when it pertains to neophyte farmboys and company" is equally laughable.



Already dealt with. Of course, we'll throw stormtroopers on Project Holocron and let you deal with it.



No, the correct response is that: "some things cannot be objectively explained, regardless of consistent analysis from the source material. Some events and circumstances exist only to further the plot, i.e. not killing off main characters."



You're not doing a great job presenting your case. We can use it, when there's no other explanation.



It's really not. For example, Obi-Wan Kenobi's defeat of Anakin Skywalker is not plot induced stupidity, even though Skywalker is a more accomplished duelist. The circumstances of his defeat can be logically explained and have been through canon sources. Kenobi, despite being technically inferior, is a master of the ultimate defensive form and has not only been partnered with Skywalker for years, but was the one who observed and supervised his training. Skywalker, on the other hand, is on the verge of insanity with his mental breakdown where all he does is want to destroy Kenobi and crush him. He loses all tactical objectivity and pays for it with his limbs.



It's not. We prove most of our points through evidence and corroboration from other sources. Where is it corroborated that "LOLZ STORMTROOPERS SUCK!"



And when you can objectively prove "STORMTROOPERS SUCK," I'll concede. But you can't, so I'm not.



I'm fine to disagree. I don't intend to continue this argument with truejedi, or REX, or Ush. I said that I wouldn't. Where I get annoyed is when people disagree purely to disagree, to be controversial, as you clearly are. You have no point.



By throwing out your opinion when it offered absolutely nothing while simultaneously displaying ignorance of my stance and Truejedi, you jumped in line as far as people whom I'm less than courteous with. You're not helping yourself by continuing to disagree apparently purely to be controversial. None of your points have any merit to them.



Oh, rest assured, my attitude towards you is born purely from you and you alone.



Continuing to lecture me while all the while having your argument stripped away doesn't reflect upon you. Those who lecture properly do so because they are right. You're not, which casts a serious pall on yours.



As someone who seemingly prides himself on his comprehension of grammar and linguistics, what part of "I was joking, you moron" don't you understand? He's not on ignore. You just might make it there, though.



Three years of continuous debates? Yes, if I were a relative newbie, I'd dismiss seniority as well.



Excellent. Which makes one wonder why you've picked an argument with a guy who pays attention to detail. I do. To your detriment.



No, my perfection makes me infallible. When you are in the employ of my Master, the Great Publius, you reap the rewards for loyal service.



I'll get on that.

In return, perhaps you could stop trying to disagree with me just to be contrary. If you're going to argue with me and lecture me, please do us all the favor of being right. You clearly aren't up to the task, so I would suggest that you take the time to shift your stance or concede the point.

You get one more turn and then we're going to move on.

Edit: Just to be clear, Red Nemesis, I'm not spastic even here. I find you intelligent and I respect you. But it seems to me that you're not disagreeing with me out of an actual point, but perhaps in some sort of exercise or role as devil's advocate. But what you should know about me is that I am intolerant of double standards, regardless if your heart is in this or not. If I see that you are using them, I will not hesitate to bring that to your attention, aggressively or otherwise.

Originally posted by Gideon
It's really not. For example, Obi-Wan Kenobi's defeat of Anakin Skywalker is not plot induced stupidity, even though Skywalker is a more accomplished duelist. The circumstances of his defeat can be logically explained and have been through canon sources. Kenobi, despite being technically inferior, is a master of the ultimate defensive form and has not only been partnered with Skywalker for years, but was the one who observed and supervised his training. Skywalker, on the other hand, is on the verge of insanity with his mental breakdown where all he does is want to destroy Kenobi and crush him. He loses all tactical objectivity and pays for it with his limbs.

And not to contradict anything you're saying, but merely expanding upon this point, I believe we can use Obi-Wan's win over Anakin in that instance as a perfect case of CIS (Character Induced Stupidity) by Anakin, as opposed to PIS.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And not to contradict anything you're saying, but merely expanding upon this point, I believe we can use Obi-Wan's win over Anakin in that instance as a perfect case of CIS (Character Induced Stupidity) by Anakin, as opposed to PIS.

LOL.

The current CIS would object to abuse of that acronym. I think that sort of stupidity is inherent to most characters. After all, no SW personage is infallible, and even the most brilliant of men make the greatest mistakes.

Originally posted by Gideon
LOL.

The current CIS would object to abuse of that acronym. I think that sort of stupidity is inherent to most characters. After all, no SW personage is infallible, and even the most brilliant of men make the greatest mistakes.

Not Revan and Bane.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Not Revan and Bane.


...

I'll beat you to death with a tire iron.

i'm seriously curious with this question: if i concede the point can i move on to saying things like DE sidious wasn't really that powerful, he just needed to appear that powerful in order to make an interesting plot in DE? but in truth, he was really a weakling. For once, i'm not asking the question with ANY sarcasm. I'm curious as to how this theory of justifying things because of the plot will carry in a debate.


And Gideon, one last time, cause you clearly aren't getting it... If your statement contradicts a canon source, its using PIS over and above the bounds what we can use it for in a debate,

mine, about luke skywalker being ABLE to defeat Jacen contradicted nothing. That fight had never been fought in which Jacen won. If Jacen HAD won a fight, and i still made my claim about skywalker, then I would be using PIS over and above those same bounds. Its not really that hard to understand, i'm surprised that you, of all people haven't grasped it yet, as you continue to misrepresent my position over and over again.
Ending a pointless circular argument is fine, something i would be perfectly willing to do. Pretending to end it, then taking jab after jab in posts to other users is beneath even u, especially when you are OUTRIGHT LYING about my entire point.

Thats right, you are LYING about it. So stop. If there is anything more annoying than arguing with a brick wall, its arguing with a brick wall that lies...

Originally posted by Gideon
...

I'll beat you to death with a tire iron.

The same one I sodomized Blax's mom with?

LOL.

Did you just accuse me of lying? I said I'd end it with you. I did. I haven't responded to a single issue. I've only responded to Red Nemesis's ones which pertain to a larger issue: his stance and why it was unnecessary.

I'm not lying. I cover my ass.

i mean on representing my position




both of those statements were your's correct? Neither one of them are in the slightest bit true. I got the impression while we WERE discussing it that YOU weren't comprehending ANYTHING i was saying, but to say that i was trying to use PIS to evaluate skywalker was an absolute falsehood, which i explained numerous times, and you failed to reply to.

(i think in truth we just argued from two corners of a triangle thinking we were having a straight-line disagreement, because no other explanation other than blatant disregard for the truth of what i posted would result in the repeated misrepresentation of what my position was in the discussion)

i take back the liar comment, sorry about that, probably just a misunderstanding, or reading comprehension or something.

This thread appears to have been derailed as well. Please return to the topic...

Originally posted by Captain REX
This thread appears to have been derailed as well. Please return to the topic...

Let me put it to you like this: one cannot begin to imagine how badly this series is going to blow. I shudder to think.

But, expect another galactic-scale war.

Originally posted by Gideon
Let me put it to you like this: one cannot begin to imagine how badly this series is going to blow. I shudder to think.

But, expect another galactic-scale war.

...Unless Palpatine returns to stabilize the galaxy and bring peace once more...

No, that would piss me off, too.

They said he's gone for good. So unless they intend to retcon DE, he needs to stay gone.

Besides, Palpatine would just steal Luke's X-wing, fly to Korriban, and kick the shit out of Krayt and company for being pansies.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I submit that the antagonist of this saga be none other than the Galactic Emperor himself.

Fresh some WTFpwning everything in the realm of Chaos, he's able to drain the power from all other Dark Sider spirits located there and thus fully resurrect himself - ready to conquer the galaxy yet again!

I just had to quote this cause I laughed my ass off and am still trying to staple it back on.

BTW, the authors better focus a whole lot more on non-Skywalker characters or I'm gonna crap a brick I'll be so pissed. LOTF was ridiculous in that aspect and they damn well better get it right this time around. I want to see Horn, Durron, Saba, Katarn, and all the other Jedi back in the story.

well, it was largely centered around Solo characters, and THAT was annoying too. But i agree with gideon on that fact that its probably going to suck. If they make another galactic war.... words cannot describe how stupid that would be....

Dark Empire = Galactic war.

Thrawn Triology = Galactic war.

NJO = Galactic war.

Swarm War Trilogy = Galactic war.

LOTF = Galactic war.

Have I missed any post-ROTJ stuff that has galactic-scale wars in them? It's a pretty safe bet this is going to be yet another....

I don't know for certain, but does the battle for Bakura count?

I guess not considering it was over one planet...

Though there's also that novel where Daala gets command of like 200 Star Destroyers and goes around raping planets with them.

The X-Wing series as well.

does JA count? i mean, you had Daala flying around trying to blow people up with 5 star destroyers.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Though there's also that novel where Daala gets command of like 200 Star Destroyers and goes around raping planets with them.

That was Darksaber, and it was supposedly the entire Imperial fleet. And not that it mattered... rather than have a single ImpStar bombard Yavin from orbit, she had Pellaeon launch a land invasion. To attack Jedi. His fleet was promptly evicted from the system via the Force and then her SuperStar got owned. She's hideously incompetent.

I hope also this new series will feature a villain(s) that will give Luke, Ben, etc at least some trouble

problem is, there is really no way canonically to do that. They have luke SO POWERFUL that anyone else they create more powerful would be ridiculous. I had a giant fear throughout LOTF that they were going to have Caedus kill luke, even though he logically shouldn't have been able to challenge him, then i would have to put Caedus above luke, and i seriously didn't want to do that. Same thought process would probably go for ANY villian they bring against luke. almost should be yet another galactic war i guess....

Here's a thought: in fact... n/m, i think it deserves its own thread.

No, they gave Luke a great Achilles heel. He's easily manipulated.

thats true. Caedus uses that against him the entire series.

Originally posted by truejedi
thats true. Caedus uses that against him the entire series.

Right. He's not dumb, but he'll never compare to the truly great minds.

Originally posted by Gideon
Right. He's not dumb, but he'll never compare to the truly great minds.

Not dumb? He's hideously naive. And for someone who has been in as many wars as him, who has killed as many as he has...that's f*cking inexcusable.

He was even a pansy in DE when he went to the Dark Side. And that's generally when most Jedi become cool...Luke is simply beyond hope. I hope he dies. Soon. Horribly. Raped by Christmas critters.

you gonna put that in my death of luke skywalker thread? cause i mean, we can discuss it... i hadn't thought of that plotline for it.... "raped by christmas critters..." hmmm that might just be the answer 8 )

Originally posted by truejedi
you gonna put that in my death of luke skywalker thread? cause i mean, we can discuss it... i hadn't thought of that plotline for it.... "raped by christmas critters..." hmmm that might just be the answer 8 )

Sadly it was trademarked by South Park already when they proceeded to rape Kurt Russell.

so what do you guys think of the over plot of this series?

the plot summary from the book(which i grabbed from wookieepedia) says

After violent civil war, and the devastation wrought by the now-fallen Darth Caedus, the Galactic Alliance is in crisis -- and in need. From all corners, politicians, power brokers, and military leaders converge on Coruscant for a crucial summit to restore order, negotiate differences, and determine the future of their unified worlds. But even more critical, and far more uncertain, is the future of the Jedi.

In a shocking move, Chief of State Natasi Daala orders the arrest of Luke Skywalker for failing to prevent Jacen Solo's turn to the dark side and subsequent reign of terror as a Sith Lord. But it's only the first blow in an anti-Jedi backlash fueled by a hostile government and suspicious public. When Jedi Knight Valin Horn, scion of a politically influential family, suffers a mysterious psychotic break and becomes a dangerous fugitive, the Jedi become the target of a media-driven witch-hunt. Facing conviction on the charges, Luke has only one choice. He must strike a bargain with the calculating Daala: his freedom in exchange for his exile -- from Coruscant and from the Jedi Order.

Now, though forbidden to intervene in Jedi affairs, Luke is determined to keep grim history from being repeated. With his son, Ben, at his side, Luke sets out to unravel the shocking truth behind Jacen Solo's corruption and downfall. But the secrets he uncovers among the enigmatic Force mystics of the distant world Dorin may bring his quest -- and life as he knows it -- to a sudden end. And all the while, another Jedi Knight, consumed by the same madness as Valin Horn, is headed for Coruscant on a fearsome mission that could doom the Jedi Order . . . and devastate the entire galaxy.

Here's the series summary from wookieepedia as well.


'It has been two years since the death of Darth Caedus. Chief of State Natasi Daala has ushered the Galactic Alliance into a time of unprecented calm, and now the entire galaxy stands poised to freely embrace the same enduring peace that Jacen Solo once sought to impose as a Sith Lord.'

In this new era, Luke Skywalker finds himself battling control of the very order he founded. After Jacen's fall to the dark side, much of the galaxy sees Jedi Knights as rogue soldiers too dangerous and unstable to leave unfettered. It is a view shared by Chief Daala, who has sworn to bring the order under government control--or disband it entirely.

But the greatest threat to the Jedi remains unseen, a faceless menace even more lethal and insidious than the Sith who have plagued the Jedi for millennia. Awakened by Jacen Solo during his five-year odyseey, this hidden peril is reaching out from the darkest corner of the galaxy, assaulting Jedi Knights in ways that even Luke has yet to perceive--but which he must quickly thwart if he is to have any hope of redeeming the New Jedi Order.

The last paragraph is the most interesting and I'm curious as to who this new enemey is.

so the publishers summary for the second FOTJ book states, "Darth Caedus--the most powerful of sith lords."

so whats canon everything stating the emperor as most powerful or this quote?

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
so the publishers summary for the second FOTJ book states, "Darth Caedus--the most powerful of sith lords."

so whats canon everything stating the emperor as most powerful or this quote?

The publishers are wrong. And morons

I agree they are morons but, as much as i disagree with this and hate saying it.

couldn't be like this yoda was the most powerful jedi up till and after ROTS until Luke rose to power and became the most powerful jedi

could the same be said for Caedus? Palpatines was the most powerful sith through DE and until Caedus rose to power.

don't get me wrong I don't want caedus to be the most powerful but isn't this a canon source stating that he is? even if we hate it and disagree with the publishers.

It's certainly possible that a post-Palpatine Sith Lord could eventually equal or surpass him in power, it's just not likely.

I missed the part where you get to decide what's canon.

but is that post palpatine sith lord Caedus

It may be, according to the publishers. The wording isn't as absolute as "the most powerful Sith Lord in history," so there could be multiple interpretations of it. Granted, it makes no sense at all, but there's post-RotJ EU for you.

I hope that caedus isn't going to be canonized as more powerful the sidious.

Originally posted by Publius II
It's certainly possible that a post-Palpatine Sith Lord could eventually equal or surpass him in power, it's just not likely.

I missed the part where you get to decide what's canon.

I missed the point where publishers think they can post random horseshit against canon.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I missed the point where publishers think they can post random horseshit against canon. It is indeed horseshit, but technically there is no "canon" contradicting it.

How about the numerous sources claiming Sidious is numero uno, and Invincible stating that Caedus was "one of the most powerful sith lords"?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
How about the numerous sources claiming Sidious is numero uno,Don't be dense. Not a single one of the OOU sources would possibly apply to a post-Palpatine era, and Caedus wasn't around when any of the IU sources were new. The NEC? Written before Caedus's time. The declarations of the ancient Sith spirits? Spoken before Caedus's time.

And by your logic, no light-sider could ever surpass Yoda, because he was "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known."

So if I went ahead and said Sidious was one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever, I'd be wrong?

You have no argument here. Is the idea of Caedus being more powerful than Palpatine stupid? Duh. Is there anything you can do about it? No.

Originally posted by Publius II
Don't be dense. Not a single one of the OOU sources would possibly apply to a post-Palpatine era, and Caedus wasn't around when any of the IU sources were new. The NEC? Written before Caedus's time. The declarations of the ancient Sith spirits? Spoken before Caedus's time.

And by your logic, no light-sider could ever surpass Yoda, because he was "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known."

So if I went ahead and said Sidious was one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever, I'd be wrong?

You have no argument here. Is the idea of Caedus being more powerful than Palpatine stupid? Duh. Is there anything you can do about it? No.

What's the OOU?
If you said Sidious would be one of the most powerful, you'd be wrong seeing as he was the most powerful. Unless the writers are also lawyers who enjoy semantics then "one of the most powerful", and "the most powerful" are two different things.

It says "Most powerful of the sith lords". What the hell does that mean exactly? I guess he is seeing as how he was the only sith lord alive while the One Sith hid on Korriban

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What's the OOU?Out-of-universe.

Jesus Christ.

You're a Jew. Jews are also human. Therefore, you are human, and your being a Jew does not contradict your being a human. Yes?

Likewise, Caedus is the most powerful of Sith Lords. The most powerful Sith Lord is also among the ranks of the most powerful of Sith Lords. It's like being number one in a list of the top five; he's still one of the five, isn't he? His being the most powerful does not contradict his being one of the most powerful.

Clear? Or do you need pictures, now?

Yeah, but they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

I thought you considered yourself highly intelligent, DS. Stop being dense.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
so the publishers summary for the second FOTJ book states, "Darth Caedus--the most powerful of sith lords."

so whats canon everything stating the emperor as most powerful or this quote?

How can that be, Jacen is dead, unless their going to write some bullshiite story claiming he is still alive

Originally posted by Publius II
Out-of-universe.

Jesus Christ.

You're a Jew. Jews are also human. Therefore, you are human, and your being a Jew does not contradict your being a human. Yes?

Likewise, Caedus is the most powerful of Sith Lords. The most powerful Sith Lord is also among the ranks of the most powerful of Sith Lords. It's like being number one in a list of the top five; he's still one of the five, isn't he? His being the most powerful does not contradict his being one of the most powerful.

Clear? Or do you need pictures, now?

Yeah, but they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

I thought you considered yourself highly intelligent, DS. Stop being dense.
I'm playing semantics too. I don't think your example is very valid. If Caedus is THE most powerful sith lord then he isn't ONE of the most powerful sith lords. Similarly, if he was ONE Of the most powerful sith lords, that doesn't mean he was the most powerful.

And furthermore, when the description of the book simply states "The most powerful of the sith lords", that's hardly conclusive at all.

Can someone post the summary for Omen?

Edit: I know I'm one of Caedus's biggest supporters on KMC but for the record I'm against him being more powerful than Sidious. Though I will abide by canon either way.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'm playing semantics too. I don't think your example is very valid. If Caedus is THE most powerful sith lord then he isn't ONE of the most powerful sith lords. Similarly, if he was ONE Of the most powerful sith lords, that doesn't mean he was the most powerful.

And furthermore, when the description of the book simply states "The most powerful of the sith lords", that's hardly conclusive at all. Do you need ****ing pictures or something?

Screw it. Someone else take over, please.

DS, though you have my sympathy, Faunus is right. You can't just ignore canon you disapprove of.

Then again, there are all sorts of loopholes to exploit in this.

Look, little issues like this happen from time to time. As of right now, this is likely a little slip and it contradicts with several other sources that are probably more valid in the eyes of LFL than Del Ray's writers.

In other words, we now have a contradiction on our hands and can only wait to see what happens.

Originally posted by Gideon
DS, though you have my sympathy, Faunus is right. You can't just ignore canon you disapprove of.

Then again, there are all sorts of loopholes to exploit in this.

I am NOT ignoring canon, despite Faunus' reading abilities. I'm simply stating that it's not definitive and there are many ways you can interpret their statements.

If they make this conclusively canon, I will respect it because it's law, but I wouldn't understand how someone like Caedus who had virtually no sith training whatsoever, and a few esoteric techniques, could ever be more powerful than someone who could dispense a nearly limitless amount of techniques at his leisure.

I'm really unclear on seeing how. You can really, really get pedantic and say it doesn't mean he's the most powerful of the Dark Lords of the Sith, but really.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm really unclear on seeing how. You can really, really get pedantic and say it doesn't mean he's the most powerful of the Dark Lords of the Sith, but really.

But aren't dark lords of the sith also sith lords? (as Mace calls Palpatine "A Sith lord" in ROTS) Does anyone have access to the summary for Omen, I'm having trouble locating it.

Sure.

For example, the Hand of Thrawn duology's publisher's statement says that "the New Republic faces its greatest yet -- a dead Imperial warlord", in reference to Grand Admiral Thrawn. Though it is an out of universe source, the idea that in death Thrawn could be a greater enemy than the likes of Ysanne Isard, Sate Pestage, Warlord Zsinj, the Ssi-Ruuk, the Yevetha, the Disciples of Ragnos, Gilad Pellaeon, or Palpatine himself is simply implausible.

Not to mention, of course, that the line doesn't mention a historical context and that there were other so-called 'Sith' alive at the time. One could make an argument that the line was in context only. After all, the official website and the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia reference Yoda and Palpatine as "the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides" respectively.

Originally posted by Gideon
DS, though you have my sympathy, Faunus is right. You can't just ignore canon you disapprove of.

Then again, there are all sorts of loopholes to exploit in this. Indeed. And no one should assume that Caedus being the most powerful of Sith Lords automatically makes him the greatest combatant or master of the Force among them.

There's no contradiction, LS.

This makes no sense whatsoever, but I lol'd anyway.

Actually, I never even said you were ignoring canon.

It's rather simple; Caedus had greater potential in the Force. Anakin Skywalker was noted by Mace Windu to have raw power on the level of Yoda; it could easily be true, but it doesn't really change anything. Three years later, Yoda would still curbstomp Anakin in any contest of the Force.

For the record the quote comes from Blood Oath which is not a part of the fate of the jedi series.

Originally posted by Publius II
Indeed. And no one should assume that Caedus being the most powerful of Sith Lords automatically makes him the greatest combatant or master of the Force among them.
Well, how should we define 'power' exactly?

Well, as Gideon pointed out., Palp in the Complete Encyclopedia is apparently noted as the greatest practitioner of the Dark Side...the Encyclopedia also includes Caedus



Think it's just potential then?

Of course it's also possible we can just apply this to just living Sith Lords. Anyone have issues with him being more powerful than Krayt and Wyyrlok I?

And, really, power can be ambiguous; I refer not to Janus's patented "LOLZ IT IS MILITARY OR POLITICAL POWAH!!1!" but the difference between realized power and potential power. Anakin Skywalker has been regarded by many sources to be among (and the) most powerful Jedi that the Order has ever seen. Yet, for the most part, his command of the Force is lackluster -- he couldn't even pry open a door in Labyrinth of Evil -- requiring his clone commandos to blow it open. That is startling given his connection to the Force. You can pin it on psychology or on the simple fact that Skywalker was never a scholar; but you saw what happened when you pit him against the likes of Count Dooku, whose potential power is miles behind Anakin's -- the Count's superiority in command of the Force allowed him to dominate Skywalker.

Solo's title of "most powerful" could even simply be reference to potential.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Of course it's also possible we can just apply this to just living Sith Lords. Anyone have issues with him being more powerful than Krayt and Wyyrlok I?

This is my point. "Most powerful of the sith lords" can mean most powerful of the living sith lords, but of course faunus is going to be quick as hell to label it conclusive for all time.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
This is my point. "Most powerful of the sith lords" can mean most powerful of the living sith lords, but of course faunus is going to be quick as hell to label it conclusive for all time. This is my point; you're simply going to try and nitpick until you find an interpretation that suits your liking.

And again with the lies. I didn't say it was "conclusive for all time." In fact, I was the first person in this thread to point this out:

I'm taking the quote at face value and assuming the most obvious meaning. If others want to try and find loopholes in it, then be my guest.

You know, I don't think many of us would have issues with it if Caedus weren't such a let down villain.

I spared myself the misery and simply read the fight scenes, which were pretty good.

Originally posted by Publius II
This is my point; you're simply going to try and nitpick until you find an interpretation that suits your liking.

And again with the lies. I didn't say it was "conclusive for all time." In fact, I was the first person in this thread to point this out:

I'm taking the quote at face value and assuming the most obvious meaning. If others want to try and find loopholes in it, then be my guest.

I am "nitpicking" because it's ambiguous at best. When it said Sidious is "The most powerful sith lord in history", THAT is conclusive, and I have right to nitpick. This ISNT, so I CAN.

Originally posted by Publius II
I spared myself the misery and simply read the fight scenes, which were pretty good.

Oh, do read the other bits. It's hilarious in a bad way. The fight scenes-save the last one with Jaina- are a high point of LOTF, though

Personally, I don't find this sort of discussion to be a demonstration of nitpicking. The simple fact of the matter is that there is little evidence to corroborate the idea that Darth Caedus was greater than any of his predecessors in terms of actualized power, and that's being generous! Were we to be completely fair, I'd have to say that there is absolutely nothing that corroborates it. I could point out the numerous displays of Caedus's incompetence and weakness in both the Force and ability, but you're all aware of that. The out-of-universe publisher's summary for Invincible stated that Caedus's power surpassed "even those of his grandfather, Darth Vader," making a direct implication that that was the extent of his power; and we're all aware that there have been a handful of Jedi and Sith whose power exceed that of Vader's own. Not to mention that, as Darth Sexy and I have both pointed out, there were other so-called Sith Lords alive and operating at the time of Caedus's rise to power. And, lastly, consider one of the examples I provided of the errors committed by a publisher's summary: is Grand Admiral Thrawn, dead over a decade, ever faced?

According to the promotion: he is. But the fact remains that such an accolade is simply and thoroughly implausible.

First Book came out today anybody pick it up, thoughts on the book so far ?

I preordered mine on amazon a month ago so have to wait a few days.

I just bought it and will begin reading shortly.

Point of contention that may spell doom for this series. Random monk #321 nearly overpowers Luke in a fight.

Good lord. You just started and this already feels like the inconsistency of LOTF.

Apparently Luke ages backwards; he looks under thirty on the cover.

And Gideon, can you describe the scene a little more?

I'm buying my copy on saturday..

Remember Jacen during DN and then the cover of I forgot which LOTF novel where Jacen looks 12? They have some incredible medicine in the SW universe.

Is Daala Chief-of-State? That reason alone is why I will never read these.

Originally posted by Eminence
Apparently Luke ages backwards; he looks under thirty on the cover.

And Gideon, can you describe the scene a little more?

Luke engages in combat against a being who calls himself the Hidden One. He hurls lightning against Luke, who deflects it with his lightsaber, but it's strong enough to hurl him across the room and into a pillar, pinning him there. With extreme effort, Luke is able to move forward. So the Hidden One uses the Force to summon winds and hurl him back. Luke is again, with effort, able to move forward. The Hidden One hurls a Force-created vortex of air at him, Luke destabilizes it with telekinesis, and in the chaos disables the Hidden One with a kick to the ribs.

Originally posted by Gideon
Luke engages in combat against a being who calls himself the Hidden One. He hurls lightning against Luke, who deflects it with his lightsaber, but it's strong enough to hurl him across the room and into a pillar, pinning him there. With extreme effort, Luke is able to move forward. So the Hidden One uses the Force to summon winds and hurl him back. Luke is again, with effort, able to move forward. The Hidden One hurls a Force-created vortex of air at him, Luke destabilizes it with telekinesis, and in the chaos disables the Hidden One with a kick to the ribs. Ugh, how mundane. Luke goes from taking on Shimrra and Caedus to a monk? Just DIE!

Yeah.

From what I read of the upcoming book summaries, I'm not impressed with one of the new (but old) factions that will be appearing.