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Revan(LS), Exile(LS), and Galen Marek(LS)
vs
Palpatine, Vader(suit), and Dooku

1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All out

I say Team video game. In my opinion evryone except maybe the exile on team video game are better than anyone on team movie

What Palpatine are we using?


Sidious is more powerful then any of the video game characters.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
What Palpatine are we using?


Sidious is more powerful then any of the video game characters.

Dooku is more powerful than any of the videogame characters.

Vader is more powerful than any of the videogame characters.


This is a total curbstomp for the movies.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Dooku is more powerful than any of the videogame characters.

Vader is more powerful than any of the videogame characters.

That certainly is debatable when it comes to Galen Marek, he did defeat Vader with the force after all.

According to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-59Iv0vCgA exile is an average force user, he just has a knack for leadership so he should'nt be much of a factor.

Exile's a she.

Oh and the Movie-bunch win. Handily.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Exile's a she.

Oh and the Movie-bunch win. Handily.

My bad it's just i played her as a male character mostly so i tend to forget

but yes i agree movie bunch takes it.

The Exile, being the weak link, gets her ass handed to her early on, leaving Revan and Marek to get owned by the trio.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
That certainly is debatable when it comes to Galen Marek, he did defeat Vader with the force after all.

I thought there were extenuating circumstances. Anybody have the exact quote? (from the novel?)

Call me a revan fanboy but i think revan is the most poweful out of the bunch. The exile did defeat 3 sith lords and Marek crushed vader and beat palp.

Why do i have the feeling that im going to get a lot of crap for the revan comment

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
Call me a revan fanboy.

You are a Revan fanboy.

Galen Marek solos. Every single time.

Galen's the strongest of the VG team... so I suppose he can maybe wreck Vader but in the end movie team wins without much difficulty.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
Call me a revan fanboy but i think revan is the most poweful out of the bunch. Why do you think that?

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
Marek crushed vader and beat palp.
Marek did not beat 'palp'. He reached DBZ 'FORCE AVATAR' state, and turned the Emperor's own power into an explosion. Said explosion did not harm the Emperor in the slightest.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool

Why do i have the feeling that im going to get a lot of crap for the revan comment

Because you didn't provide any proof showing that Revan is more powerful than Marek, or any of the Jedi. (Hint: There isn't any evidence)

For some people Revan is just good but not great. For other people Revan is one of the most powerful beings of all time. Revan knows more about the force than anyone. And it is also known that revan was extremely powerful as said by Kreia- "Revan was power. It was like starring into the heart of the force." He was a master of not just the dark side powers but also of the light side, something u cant say about palp. He also did not fall to the darkness of Malachor V but harnessed the power to become even stronger. One of the greatest sith, Darth Bane, considered Revan as one of the greats and without him he woulda of never have become as powerful as he became. As for Marek he did fight the shadow guard, many many troops and also crush vader before he even got to face palp so i say he wasnt at 100% unlike palp how had just been relaxing the entire time. And the exile defeated 3 extremely powerful sith lords in a short amount of time and i consider that to be a very big feat.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
For some people Revan is just good but not great. For other people Revan is one of the most powerful beings of all time.

He is. It just so happens that one of the people facing him is most decidedly his superior.



He really doesn't.



And Count Dooku, "gazing through the eyes of the dark side itself," concluded that Palpatine "was beyond power."



I can, actually. Palpatine is the greatest scholar of Force knowledge that we have ever seen, "gathering the greatest works of knowledge from across a million worlds." He is a gatekeeper of the Telos Holocron, which contains the teachings of Darth Revan, Darth Bane, and Naga Sadow to name a few. Finally, the Dark Empire Sourcebook states that he had mastered "almost all of the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his leisure."



Palpatine, from Imperial Center, transformed the nascent Byss into "one of the strongest dark side sites in the galaxy" through sheer will.



No one denies that Revan is powerful. But based on evidence, Dooku and Vader are his rivals and Palpatine is his superior.



Nonsense. Dooku, who is by comparison to Starkiller is ancient, uses the Force to "drop the weight of his years" in one fell swoop. Given Starkiller's vast reserves of energy and stamina, you'd have to prove he couldn't use the Force to revitalize himself.

And from the official databank: "Lightsabers clashed inside the Emperor's observation dome, but Starkiller was ultimately no match for the power of Darth Sidious. Bombarded by Force lightning, Starkiller did not fight back but instead unleashed all the power of the Force within him, causing a tremendous blast that shattered the Emperor's tower and caused enough of a distraction to allow Eclipse and the Rebel Senators to escape."



Nihilus was starving and she talked Sion to death.

Oh, no. The KotOR fanboys strike again.

All of your points are utterly decimated when you consider the source material. Kreia is a liar and a fallible third party character, and Bane never received a first-hand overview of Revan's power- and while Revan's power is surrounded by ambiguity, Palpatine is noted to be in more than one source- one of them being the Attack of the Clones visual dictionary, to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Dooku saw him as a 'black hole in the force', and Vader saws him to be the most powerful Sith Lord ever. His displays of actual power utterly curbstomp Revan's, too.

God damn i cant wait for Kotor 3 so i can prove all of u wrong

It's not going to happen. Palpatine > Revan.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
For some people Revan is just good but not great. For other people Revan is one of the most powerful beings of all time.
Its really not up to interpretation. Revan is still mostly an unknkown, and there are not enough sources to put him at 'most powerful of all time'. That position is pure Fanboyism.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool

Revan knows more about the force than anyone.
Where's your proof? DE Palpatine, for sure, as well as Caedus, Yoda and arguably even some of the ancients (Nadd or Ragnos come to mind) know more. Yes, he had a dizzying array of powers, but he was not the pinnacle of achievement in the Force.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
And it is also known that revan was extremely powerful as said by Kreia- "Revan was power. It was like starring into the heart of the force."
Not only is this quote from an unreliable source, it stinks of hyperbole. Kreia lies to the Exile at every turn. Her pride in her 'only successful student (Revan) would naturally influence her to praise him.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
He was a master of not just the dark side powers but also of the light side, something u cant say about palp. He also did not fall to the darkness of Malachor V but harnessed the power to become even stronger.
What are you talking about? Post Kotor Revan (the most powerful lightside incarnation) is not a master of the Dark Side. He has rejected it. I may be mistaken, but I thought he hit malachor while still Darth Revan, making his reaction to its inherent darkness irrelevant.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
One of the greatest sith, Darth Bane, considered Revan as one of the greats and without him he woulda of never have become as powerful as he became. Darth Revan had an arsenal of powers, I'll grant you that. The fact that he was 'uber-leet ponzor!!111' gives me pause. I will not argue that he was weak, but I'm hesitant to place him in the top tier as you have done.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
As for Marek he did fight the shadow guard, many many troops and also crush vader before he even got to face palp so i say he wasnt at 100% unlike palp how had just been relaxing the entire time. Jedi and Sith can use the Force to replenish their energy stores- fatigue is rarely a problem. Palpatine was just too good. Marek didn't have a chance. He got WTFpwnd in both sabers and Force. He did not defeat the emperor.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
And the exile defeated 3 extremely powerful sith lords in a short amount of time and i consider that to be a very big feat. I'll grant that Sion and Kreia were impressive, but the only reason that She (right- its canonically female?) defeated Nihilius was because the 'Lord of Hunger' tried to feed off of the exile.



Edit: Damn, Gideon beat me to it.

No love for the video game characters. And btw u will never convince me that revan<palp

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
No love for the video game characters.

What?

So by not agreeing with you that Revan is more powerful than Palpatine, we have no love for video game characters? That's pretty stupid, since all evidence points to Palpatine's superiority. This is reality. We make our conclusions based on evidence. And based on evidence, Palpatine would manhandle Revan.



I'm really not interested in convincing you.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
God damn i cant wait for Kotor 3 so i can prove all of u wrong

Dooku handled the Chosen One with the force quite handily in CW, handled Kenobi quite comfortably in ROTS, stalemated Mace Windu on Boz Pity. Where is their any evidence that Revan or the Exile can take Dooku, forget Palpatine DOOKU. Palpatine will handle Revan with damn neer ease.
Dooku will manhandle the Exile or take Starkiller. Hell I'm confident that Dooku and Sidious can do this by themeselves. Sidious can handle the Exile and Revan quite comfortably, and Dooku can take Starkiller without much difficulty

Dooku taking Starkiller is amusing...

As in, it won't happen.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Dooku taking Starkiller is amusing...

As in, it won't happen.

This is one of the few times I actually agree with you.

Damn. Now I have to change my opinion.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Dooku taking Starkiller is amusing...

As in, it won't happen.
Really? and why is that? Could Mace take Starkiller?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Really? and why is that? Could Mace take Starkiller?

I haven't read the book yet but from what I have heard about Marek,he certainly can beat Mace in a force duel, he would lose a saber duel to Mace for reasons most of us know.

As far as an all out fight goes-I got the impression that Galen prefers to use/feels more comfortable using the force rather then a lightsaber to finish his opponents.Didn't he win most of one on one fights via the force? So if he can create distance Mace is royally screwed. But this particular discussion is for another thread.

I personally put Dooku above Shaak Ti with the force, but thats just me. Why can Starkiller defeat the "Temple's greatest student"

So by the looks of i all u think starkiller is the best on team VG but i think there was a thread already and most people said revan was better. Now starkiller beat vader and did very well vs the emperor so tell me again how does revan not even compare to palp.

Here comes the not enough proof hes an unknown palp was one of the greatest ever. If u want to knowsome of the abilities of revan go look at the thread revan vs starkiller.

Heres how i look at it starkiller defeats vader fairly quickly. Revan and exile can at least hold there own for a while if not kill em. Now we r looking at dooku and palp vs all 3. Exile vs Dooku and Revan and starkiller vs palp. Exile dies but so does palp. Dooku vs revan and starkiller is a damn slaughter. Team VG wins

Starkiller was only threatened by Ti in a lightsaber fight.

Your user name is disturbingly appropriate.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
So by the looks of i all u think starkiller is the best on team VG but i think there was a thread already and most people said revan was better.

Appealing to the majority is a fallacy. For the record, Darth Revan's knowledge of the Force and mastery of esoteric techniques does surpass that of Starkiller who is merely a disillusioned thug with great Force aptitude. The problem is that one cannot prove that Revan's raw command of the Force is greater than Starkiller's. Based on evidence, it's not.



He defeated Darth Vader, yes. But his efforts fighting Palpatine are irrelevant; Palpatine's goal was to convert Starkiller, to bait him into attacking him and turning to the dark side. The official databank makes it clear: Starkiller is no match "for the power of Darth Sidious." When Starkiller "unleashed all of the Force within him" it destroyed Palpatine's tower and caused an obscenely large dent in the Death Star.

Palpatine? Was standing up right and visibly fine afterwards.



Palpatine was the greatest ever in both achievement and power.



I'm not interested. Starkiller defeated an impressive array of highly powerful and disciplind Jedi, Darth Vader, immobilized an AT-AT with Force lightning, knocked it over with telekinesis, overloaded a planetary ore cannon, imploded the brain of a bull rancor, and redirected a falling Star Destroyer rather handily whilst simultaneously being harried by TIE Fighters.

Revan? Doesn't compare.



Except that, on all accounts, Vader put up one hell of a fight against Starkiller. So prove he'd do it "quickly."

Otherwise I could just say Palpatine Force Bitchslaps him "quickly" and moves on to somebody else.



Against Palpatine and Dooku? Hahaha. Palpatine > Revan. Dooku > Exile.



Except you haven't proven any of that.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I personally put Dooku above Shaak Ti with the force, but thats just me. Why can Starkiller defeat the "Temple's greatest student"

He's strong enough to physically overpower Rahm Kota and break saber locks with Mech Vader. Which means his strength >>> Dooku's. And his Force displays also >>> Dooku.


Mace would own Starkiller, though. But that's not here nor there.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
So by the looks of i all u think starkiller is the best on team VG but i think there was a thread already and most people said revan was better.

Funny because the more recent thread between the 2(yes there are 2 threads for the same fight) has Marek winning.


Marek did beat Vader but it was a rough fight. I'm seeing a classic ABC argument between this point and the one above. As for his fight with the emperor I can't answer because from what I gather the novel and the TFU cutscene are different.



I know exactly which thread and post you are talking about and Truejedi and myself said:Revan didn't canonically perform those all of those abilities. The abilities that we know he has performed is force choke,thought bomb(useless in a fight),force lightning,he likely that's pretty much it, we can infer he knows a lot more but we can't attribute a specific power to him that he hasn't performed.



There battle was brutal and Marek did get injured in their fight,it wont be "fairly quick" at all.




Neither can beat Sidious in any form nor can they beat Dooku in a saber battle and even a force fight would be hard for Revan to win if he were to face Dooku.

Here is how I see this fight going. Galen and Vader fight for a long time with Marek eventually winning if they were not interrupted . In that time Dooku beats the Exile quicker then Galen kills Vader so Dooku will help him take Marek (though Vader still may fall)while Sidious kills Revan. Movie characters win.

What you say makes no sense
how can Mace>Starkiller if Starkiller>>>>>Dooku. And are you comparing Rahm Kota to Dooku because Dooku>Kota. Dooku is on par with Mace in everyway. Dooku would cream Kota, Yoda states that the Temple's greatest student and greatest failure is Dooku. Kota was Yoda's student, and was trained at the Jedi temple. And so Dooku>Kota. Dooku is the master of Makashi the ultimate dueling form. He will beat Starkiller in a Saber match with ease. General Grievous with two sabers manhandles Shaak Ti and Ki-Adi Mundi with sabers, on several occasions Dooku handles Grievous quite comfortably with Sabers. Starkiller never handles a Jedi Master, in fact he has trouble with a Shadow Guard. Dooku on the other hand annihilates Obi-Wan Kenobi with the force quite easily. Starkiller struggles against Shaak Ti, and Kazdan Paratus, a Shadow Guard, and Rahm Kota, all of which I'd put below Kenobi and Skywalker who have been shown to be handled quite comfortably by the good count.

Jesus Christ, this mentality that "SKYWALKER AND KENOBI ARE THIRD AND FOURTH RESPECTIVELY IN THE ENTIRE ORDER" needs to just die. They're not. They've never been placed that high. Not once. Just because they're major characters doesn't mean they're automatically more powerful. Fisto, Bulq, Billaba, Tinn, Ti, and Kolar all receive similar accolades. Paratus has demonstrated a command of telekinesis and Force energy on par with Dooku; he's capable of taking out "legions" of Confederacy droids singlehandedly. Kota is capable of performing a "near impossible feat" of repulsing Sith lightning, telekinesis, and even Force grips from Starkiller. Finally, could it be possible that the Shadow Guard is a powerful figure?

This JestertheFool fellow reminds me unpleasantly of DarkSerpent.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
This JestertheFool fellow reminds me unpleasantly of DarkSerpent.

Well at least Jester is not a waste of space like Serpent was.To us he may be wrong but at least he is trying to support his stance, can we say the same as Serpent? To me, no.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
What you say makes no sense
how can Mace>Starkiller if Starkiller>>>>>Dooku. And are you comparing Rahm Kota to Dooku because Dooku>Kota. Dooku is on par with Mace in everyway. Dooku would cream Kota, Yoda states that the Temple's greatest student and greatest failure is Dooku. Kota was Yoda's student, and was trained at the Jedi temple. And so Dooku>Kota. Dooku is the master of Makashi the ultimate dueling form. He will beat Starkiller in a Saber match with ease. General Grievous with two sabers manhandles Shaak Ti and Ki-Adi Mundi with sabers, on several occasions Dooku handles Grievous quite comfortably with Sabers. Starkiller never handles a Jedi Master, in fact he has trouble with a Shadow Guard. Dooku on the other hand annihilates Obi-Wan Kenobi with the force quite easily. Starkiller struggles against Shaak Ti, and Kazdan Paratus, a Shadow Guard, and Rahm Kota, all of which I'd put below Kenobi and Skywalker who have been shown to be handled quite comfortably by the good count.


Mace has Vaapad. That's how he'd beat Starkiller. And superior speed/strength.

Dooku's Makashi didn't generate enough kinetic energy to combat Djem So. While Starkiller doesn't use that (Shien) - it's still Form V. And he's physically much stronger than Dooku, meaning Dooku won't be able to handle him in a saber duel (easily, anyway). As far as the Force goes, Starkiller has the higher feats.

So he beats Dooku, and Mace would be them both.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Dooku's Makashi didn't generate enough kinetic energy to combat Djem So. While Starkiller doesn't use that (Shien) - it's still Form V. And he's physically much stronger than Dooku, meaning Dooku won't be able to handle him in a saber duel (easily, anyway). As far as the Force goes, Starkiller has the higher feats.

Galen Marek's wookieepedia profile (source is TFU novel) says he also incorporates Soresu and Juyo into his form as well.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Well at least Jester is not a waste of space like Serpent was.To us he may be wrong but at least he is trying to support his stance, can we say the same as Serpent? To me, no.

DarkSerpent, after a bunch of time spamming the forums with shit all day long, turned into a 'reasonable' debater. Now, we both know how that turned out. Jester seems annoyingly similar.

'lol revanz teh bests cuz hiez cuul!!!'

Then again, Jester didn't exactly start the "Revan Rights Movement". Fanboys are everywhere.

Originally posted by Gideon
Jesus Christ, this mentality that "SKYWALKER AND KENOBI ARE THIRD AND FOURTH RESPECTIVELY IN THE ENTIRE ORDER" needs to just die. They're not. They've never been placed that high. Not once. Just because they're major characters doesn't mean they're automatically more powerful. Fisto, Bulq, Billaba, Tinn, Ti, and Kolar all receive similar accolades. Paratus has demonstrated a command of telekinesis and Force energy on par with Dooku; he's capable of taking out "legions" of Confederacy droids singlehandedly. Kota is capable of performing a "near impossible feat" of repulsing Sith lightning, telekinesis, and even Force grips from Starkiller. Finally, could it be possible that the Shadow Guard is a powerful figure?
Kazdan Paratus is a Jedi Knight brushed off as a outcast by Vader. Could I get a quote on the legions of droids, for future notice. Ti is handled quite comfortably by General Grievous twice. Rahm Kota is manhandled by Vader quickly, and the "near impossible feat" is performed by Kenobi, Skywalker, Mace Windu, Yoda, and Shaak Ti. And Paratus while formidable was the Temple's technician. I doubt he could take Count Dooku. A Shadow Guard is doubtfully a powerful figure, or rather I should say never demonstrated the ability to defeat a Dark Lord of the Sith. And I never said Kenobi and Skywalker are the third and fourth in the Jedi Order.
Kazdan Paratus also fled the Jedi Temple in fear, and went insane because of his own cowerdice, if he were so powerful he should be able to handle the 501st quite comfortably. In fact Shaak Ti and Kazdan Paratus were present in the temple and yet fled.

@MC

I put DarkSerpent on ignore when he was spamming so I missed all of his "debates."

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Kazdan Paratus is a Jedi Knight brushed off as a outcast by Vader.

He was also said to be "far more powerful" than Starkiller. Make up your mind. Paratus was an outcast.



The Force Unleashed's in game databank mentions that Paratus's harness improved his mobility and combined with his saberpike, he was able to destroy "legions of Confederacy droids."



This would be the same General Grievous who is a master of all of the Jedi fighting forms, able to mimic Vaapad, and "more than a match" for the vast majority of the Jedi?



You mean the Kota whose connection to the Force was blunted due to the loss of his vision?



They all reflected Sith lightning with one hand while laughing?



And Kenobi was a negotiator. Your point? He was a genius with technology.



If only I had made that contention...



Giving fits to a guy who had just beaten a Council-level Jedi Master? Um, yeah. They're powerful.



But one of them did prove to be a challenge for an even stronger Starkiller who butchered Paratus and Ti.



Right, because fighting Vader and the 501st would have ended in victory. Don't confuse the Republic's finest soldiers with battle droids.



When opposed by Darth Vader, the 501st Legion, and whatever else the Empire had set there. You don't fight the Empire on its home planet and win.

First of all why am i getting compared to this DarkSerpent fellow and second i love my video game characters and ill defend them to the end

Originally posted by Gideon
He was also said to be "far more powerful" than Starkiller. Make up your mind. Paratus was an outcast.



The Force Unleashed's in game databank mentions that Paratus's harness improved his mobility and combined with his saberpike, he was able to destroy "legions of Confederacy droids."



This would be the same General Grievous who is a master of all of the Jedi fighting forms, able to mimic Vaapad, and "more than a match" for the vast majority of the Jedi?



You mean the Kota whose connection to the Force was blunted due to the loss of his vision?



They all reflected Sith lightning with one hand while laughing?



And Kenobi was a negotiator. Your point? He was a genius with technology.



If only I had made that contention...



Giving fits to a guy who had just beaten a Council-level Jedi Master? Um, yeah. They're powerful.



But one of them did prove to be a challenge for an even stronger Starkiller who butchered Paratus and Ti.



Right, because fighting Vader and the 501st would have ended in victory. Don't confuse the Republic's finest soldiers with battle droids.



When opposed by Darth Vader, the 501st Legion, and whatever else the Empire had set there. You don't fight the Empire on its home planet and win.
This is the same General Grievous who gets taken out by Kenobi quite comfortably. If Dooku were to face Starkiller in a Saber Duel he would die. And I don't confuse the Republic's finest soldiers with Battle Droids, but the 501st isn't that good. After all a Padawan learner handled their commander and a squadron of those 'fine troops' with ease. And I believe it is safe to assume Kota rekindled his connection with the force, he is obviously able to see Vader and the Emperor, and managed to take Sidious' lightsaber. It is debatable if his connection was cut. As he knew that Starkiller was the same guy who gauged out his eyes from the start. He could sense it. Besides their are plenty of Mirilukas who survive using Force sight. And Starkiller did not butcher Ti he barely defeated her. Dooku defeats Starkiller in Sabers, Force for me is about equal, all out Dooku takes it. Dooku's lightning is not a joke, he KOs Ventress with it and puts her out for some time. Starkiller's lightning is doubtfully on par with it.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
First of all why am i getting compared to this DarkSerpent fellow and second i love my video game characters and ill defend them to the end

Then you better step up your game jr.

I already know what my name means i use it for evrything like xbox live.

Seconded, but untill that time we have to swallow and play the game like it's supposed to be played.

Well, how I see the fight progressing is thus: Starkiller, by way of being the strongest of the VG team, could take Vader or Dooku and in my opinion could take Dooku with greater ease via greater Force powaz.

Now, and this is where we get into the contraversy, I also say that both the Exile or Revan could also tie up both of the in a duel. The Exile has taken down a Malachor empowered Traya, which is around both of the above if not greater and Revan has taken down SF Malak who is also around that level, especially impressive after just fighting through legions of star forge droids, 'a match for any jedi' and Sith. I know its all ABC but I'm tired and can't think of all the other stuff applicable.
Sidious naturally would beat whoever he comes up against with only mild difficulty.

So ultimately, team movie would prevail due to the presence of Sidious on the Team.

Whoever started this thread should have repalced the Exile with Nihilus to make it more interesting.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
we have to swallow

That's what my harem of SWVF members' mothers say in their whore prayers every night.

Too long.

And Nihilius would rape everything.

Depends if he actually has a penis.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Depends if he actually has a penis.

It's probably a dark side Force penis that drains the victim of life even as Nihilius ejaculates.

If these are the video game character versions against the movie versions than the Video Game characters stomp hard. No movie character has done half of what any of the movie characters have shown on screen.

It is my understanding that he designated them by "video game" and "movie" because the first team has never made an appearance on screen. So, no, they do not stomp. They get stomped.

hmmm, you all know i stand by the " you can't prove revan had ANY specific force powers" position, but i was thinking, if we say revan ACTUALLY HAD all the force powers that the game offers, it STILL doesn't make him all that great, because every other force sensitive in both games was able to achieve that. Do we put Atton Rand near the top of most force knowledgeable simply because he had as many force powers as Revan? How about Visas? is she on par with Revan? or Kreia (mebbe her...) or Darth Bandon? how about Juhani?

Even if Revan had all these powers, it is obvious they weren't uniquely his during that time period, so it doesn't really give him any sort of edge whatsoever.
(though i'll continue to stick with my "can't prove he even had them" theory)

Well if we want to include Gameplay then Admiral Ackbar in TFU is on par with Galem Marek lol

In support of Revan fanboys.
I always like this statement by A.C.S a member of KMC. Here are feats of Revan: (This is from another thread no editing)

"I'd say simple logical deductions are enough to put Revan on the level of Kun in terms of the force and force power:

quote:
- Kreia saying it was as if looking into the heart of the force

- Jolee literally seeing the force swirl around him

- Ajunta Pal said Revans power was "blinding" to him, and that he bristled with the force.

- He being called a prodigy by Vandar at the end of KOTOR, and a prodigy as a knight before the mind wipe

- Having the most complete knowledge of the Dark Side of the force that is second only too Palpatine that we know of

- Had the most advanced, highly developed form of Battle Precognition that allowed him to see the outcome of battles months into the future. (Anther thing that puts him above Darth Cadick whose only precognition failed him and lured him into the clutches of Lumiya)

- Having his name be synonymous with power

- Bastila was literally feeling overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of his power

- His force mastery that surpasses Caedus whom himself surpassed Vader in terms of force power, who is you know 80% of Darth f*cking Sidious

- Him ripping through the Star Forges defense that were called a match for any Jedi, then beating Bastilla multiple times while she was being constantly revived and amped up by the Star Forge, THEN proceeding to beat Malak at least 2 times in a row while he was empowered by the Star Forge and revived by the life force of dead Jedi.

- Surviving and not being broken by the Dark Side power of Malachor (a PLANET full of raw Dark Side energy, which Kreia was broken by)

- His force bonding ability that he used en mass on his followers according to Kreia

- During his start as Dark Lord the chronicles say his dark power was "tremendous" and only continued to grow, then in KOTOR he's stated as being stronger then he EVER was as the Dark Lord.

- Revan using force storms to slaughter Rataka scouting parties on Lehon

- He slaughters the Sith Academy by himself (showed in KOTOR1, confirmed by Kreia in KOTOR 2)

- His holocron alone was enough in itself to turn Bane from a neophyte to a very dangerous, very powerful Dark Lord

- Sion, the mans whos pull on the force is so strong it holds his dead body together through sheer hate, admits to being his inferiority to Revan, he even goes as far as to give him the honorific "Lord" when he speaks of him, something he DOESN'T do for his current master or any of his peers


Revan is a beast with the force, as is Kun, which leads me to believe it would come down to a saber duel, and while Kun is stated to be a Lightsaber Master, that title remains unquantified, we know his skill is enough to stalemate Ulic, and crush Vodo but thats about it. As for Revan he's the best of his era, but unlike Kun, Revan has FAR, FAR more combat experience then Exar, being as though he championed a war between pretty much the most deadly non-force using warriors in the galaxy, and defeating their leader in hand to hand combat also notes of his physical and combat skills. He then follows a war with Mandalorians by a war with the Jedi, and we know he massacred the Sith Academy by himself as well as tore through the Star Forge fighting droids able to kill Jedi Knights, Dark Jedi, beat Bastila being amped by the SF 4 times and Malak being amped by Jedi Life-force at least twice, all this with no rest as there was a fleet battle going on outside that Bastila was affecting so he had to get to her with haste. Its apparent that he has the combat experience on Kun off the bat.

Now his apperent skill with the blade, coupled with his awesome command of the force and his combat experience (ie: he wouldn't start shitting his pants when Kun busts out the other half of his saber like Vodo did) would in my mind be enough to stalemate Exar Kun, however, Revan is *known* for his Battle Precognition and its this that I believe will take the fight for Revan, as Brianna and the Exile showed that although a force user gets natural hints of where to attack and defend with the force, a force user with a talent in BP as the Exile does is an especially dangerous foe to combat with. And if were to believe that he posses the BP to the extent that KOTOR 2 alludes to ( it surpasses even that of the Greatest Echani who can predict battles months in the future) then his:

-Skill
-Force Power
-Combat Experience
-Battle Precognition
-His knowledge of the layout of the Star Forge

These factors will allow him to defeat Kun."

Sadly, Revan is facing Palpatine now. To his detriment.

Originally posted by Gideon
Sadly, Revan is facing Palpatine now. To his detriment.

Being the most powerful or fastest does not grant a win at all. We have history to prove this. But I will agree that we can only speculate as to how close Revan is to Sidious when it comes to power.

I will say this though to say the Revan is not at a certain level with the feats that he has would be saying that everyone in that era was quite weak which would be foolish to say.

That kind of argument is ridiculous. Darth Revan is a gimmick, and because of that, you haven't the means to interpret his level of power compared to Palpatine or his fighting expertise. So statements like "well the most powerful doesn't always win," while true, are born from bias and fanboyism. In such a case, we almost always have to compare who is stronger, which Palpatine is.

Originally posted by Gideon
That kind of argument is ridiculous. Darth Revan is a gimmick, and because of that, you haven't the means to interpret his level of power compared to Palpatine or his fighting expertise. So statements like "well the most powerful doesn't always win," while true, are born from bias and fanboyism. In such a case, we almost always have to compare who is stronger, which Palpatine is.

Revan is definitely not a gimmick but I do understand what you are saying. My point is Gideon many of you make it seem that Revan should not be include in certain discussions. No one is claiming that Revan is more powerful than Sidious.

But how many siths do have Revan's accomplishments? To say that Revan who's teachings made Bane powerful and scared him is not at a certain level does not make sense. Also to say that Revan did not master many of the force techniques does not make sense. No one would say that about Sidious who's teachings made all of his students powerful.

Revan should at least be in the same tier as Kun and Dooku.

The problem is, Revan's Lightsaber skills cannot be verified. In fact, his skills in combat may very much lie in other directions, blasters, or explosives, or even nothing but gigantic force attacks, so you can't make a concrete argument to support him in a sabers contest.

The flip-side of that is: is his force skills can't actually be verified either. we can't even prove he could produce lightning. So, while it is possible, even probable that he had massive force knowledge and power, it can't actually be checked. For all we know, he fought his final opponents with nothing but saber, or explosives, or blaster, using medpacks to instantly heal himself (lol)

Various quotes seem to point out that his power was immense, BUT, what did he use that power for? did he actually ever develop any force skills? that, was entirely at the decision of the game player, so we can't say specifically.

given the nature of KOTOR though, Chances are that Revan actually made use of the rather excellent strategy of running a few feet away from his opponent, turning around and shooting a blaster at that opponent, then ran away again, till he had gained enough of an edge on that opponent to turn and shoot them again. In fact, Revan's MAIN claim to fame could very possibly be amazing stamina and good foot speed.

Ok, Revan has basic Force powers, but that still doesn't put him above the likes of Sidious who is stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history, and wipes out fleets with the force. Oh, and Revan did lose a duel, as I recall scripted moments in KOTOR have Malak curbstomping Revan with the force. He would have died were it not for Bastilla's interference

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Ok, Revan has basic Force powers, but that still doesn't put him above the likes of Sidious who is stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history, and wipes out fleets with the force. Oh, and Revan did lose a duel, as I recall scripted moments in KOTOR have Malak curbstomping Revan with the force. He would have died were it not for Bastilla's interference

No one is stating Revan is more powerful than Sidious. Also you have to have more than Basic force powers to lead thousands of Sith and Jedi. Are you forgetting about Bane who became strong from Revan's teaching and the sith assassins which Revan started. Revan was able to defeat someone who knew force lighting and force drain to name a few while being empowered by the SF with basic force abilities. Wonderful logic!

Revan did not lose the duel, unless you can provide a canon quote stating so. The fight was interrupted by Bastilla, not the same as a lose.

I understand you do not like Revan either.

What the hell was the point of quoting AC Styles when then entire post didn't even form an argument for this thread, all it did say was that Revan is uber. No shit, now explain why that will help his team over come the movie characters and then you would have an arguement.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
What the hell was the point of quoting AC Styles when then entire post didn't even form an argument for this thread, all it did say was that Revan is uber.

I thought you would have guess already my pure favoritism for Revan.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I thought you would have guess already my pure favoritism for Revan.

We already knew that but it is a waste of space when all it did was say Revan is uber, I didn't see one mention to the opponents his team is facing.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
We already knew that but it is a waste of space when all it did was say Revan is uber, I didn't see one mention to the opponents his team is facing.

It was not a waste as it gave specifics quotes and feats of Revan. What is a waste is statements that say Revan used blasters and explosives to accomplish all of his wins.

Do you want me to pull up the hundreds of debates of Revan vs Dooku and Sidious. That is all person has to do to see how Revan is view in comparison.

The feats at least let us know as I already stated that Revan should at least be consider on the tier of Dooku and Kun.

Kotor, you clearly AREN'T getting my point, in my personal opinion, i would place Revan somewhere along the lines of Bane, Dooku, and much more powerful than the exile, >than nihilus Sion> than almost any sith ever, he woudl definitly be in my top 5. I don't think he could defeat the "big 4" as of ROTS (anakin, obi-wan, mace, yoda) besides that, he could probably take on anyone in the order. (qui-gonn's my 5 on that jedi list, so i would put Revan about even with him)

My opinion counts for NOTHING though. You have come forth with flawless logic, that a sith lord would DEFINITLY know the usual force powers. I don't mind that, my point is, you can't prove it. and what count as the usual force powers? (lightning, shove, choke?) those really don't help his case as a powerful force user.

I would be all for a third KOTOR game that makes Revan the greatest Sith of all-time, i really wouldn't mind. He's probably my favorite Sith south of Vader. You just can't prove it right now. You have to be able to see that, i mean, don't you? Well, let me put that another way, You can't PROVE ANYTHING about him right now, but the most you can make us assume is that he wasn't below average.

We don't know how much knowledge bane gained from the Revan holocron vs. what he gained from the other holocrons, so you can't really put a measure on his knowledge that way either.

btw, you act like i don't like revan, or KOTOR. I love both. I'd love a KOTOR 3, if it came out on a console only, i might go buy a console, thats how much i like it. I'm just a little more realistic about what we can glean about a video game character from mix-n-match force powers from a menu of choices...

Finally, there was a 67% chance that Revan NEVER used a lightsaber very well. The game was made for one of three modes of combat:
Soldier, in that one, Revan WOULD be a skilled, dominant lightsaber duelist, no problem,
2nd, Scoundrel: A class that favored blasters and explosives, making the scoundrel smart enough to use droids in many situations to avoid combat entirely. If a scoundrel, on should assume revan used blasters, its only fair.
3rd, scouts DEFINITLY favor explosives and alternate methods of fighting other than head-on battles. In that case, explosives probably would be the weapon of choice, with blasters second, based on skill dispersal.

There you have it, only 1 in 3 would definitly favor using a melee weapon. I can't see how you called my original statement about him possibly using a blaster or explosive combination as a primary weapon choice "ridiculous"

Nihilus > Revan.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nihilus > Revan.

as i said, only my opinion

Originally posted by Kotor3
True but we do know he was never defeated in a duel. Like any fight a person can use any means to win but to say the Revan only use blasters and explosives is ridiculous. Dooku and Sidious had no problem using any means to win a duel why would Revan be different or anyone who is fighting for there life.


The very point is that Dooku and Sidious isn't known for carrying an entire bunch of explosives and medi-packs around in combat. Or let me rephrase that: It is unlikely that Revan archieved the things he did by the use of such weapons. But then it's also unlikely, that he let's six members of his crew stay at a ship without reason .

And what remains in form of canon is basically Revan's fights against people who's own power is defined by their standing in comparison to Revan - who himself is an unknown.



The Rebellion started a Galaxy spanning Civil War without a single force user in their lines. You don't need to be a force user at all to start wars in the SW universe. And well...several billion beings in the Galaxy survived the Jedi Civil war. So what?

Oh yeah. I know. Revan did participate in the action, but apparently he still left most of the dirty work to his minions.



Urm. What?
Really. The Jedi Civil War was nothing like the later conflict which ended on Ruusan. You didn't have armies of force user clashing against each other. Revan's forces did focus on assassination or conversion of the Jedi, rather then engaging them in direct battle. And from what we see, the only Jedi really involved in the conflict is Bastilla with her battle meditation. Aside of that?



Actually he needs to read "Path of Destruction" since the only stuff in the came that is canon is the storyline, which doesn't define Revan's force abilities.



I think the actual point was, that the Video Game characters are hyped beyond believe and equipped with ridiculous powers, just to give the player the opportunity to play some powerful individuals. Think about Starkiller being equipped with the potential to become the most powerful force user ever - this in a universe where you have people conceived by midi-chlorians running around. Absolute bullshit, if you ask me. Which is also the case for some actions you can produce while playing the KotoR games. I mean, what the hell? The Exile apparently took out the entire population of the Trayus Academy, sometimes facing off against three or more force using opponents at once - all on her own. You really consider that to be realistic using the "normal" rules of the SW universe? I don't.

Originally posted by Kotor3
No one is stating Revan is more powerful than Sidious. Also you have to have more than Basic force powers to lead thousands of Sith and Jedi. Are you forgetting about Bane who became strong from Revan's teaching and the sith assassins which Revan started. Revan was able to defeat someone who knew force lighting and force drain to name a few while being empowered by the SF with basic force abilities. Wonderful logic!

Revan did not lose the duel, unless you can provide a canon quote stating so. The fight was interrupted by Bastilla, not the same as a lose.

I understand you do not like Revan either.
No, I like revan, and I think being held in a stass field, unable to move is pretty much pwnt. All Malak had to do was make a final slash across the chest. If Revan could have won he wouldn't just leave his lover to die lol. On the SF however Malak gets defeated, again we don't know how. Maybe Revan's SF robes gave him a boost, or the Dark Lord charged at Revan who planted a trip mine lol.

Originally posted by truejedi
Kotor, you clearly AREN'T getting my point, in my personal opinion, i would place Revan somewhere along the lines of Bane, Dooku, and much more powerful than the exile, >than nihilus Sion> than almost any sith ever, he woudl definitly be in my top 5. I don't think he could defeat the "big 4" as of ROTS (anakin, obi-wan, mace, yoda) besides that, he could probably take on anyone in the order. (qui-gonn's my 5 on that jedi list, so i would put Revan about even with him)

My opinion counts for NOTHING though. You have come forth with flawless logic, that a sith lord would DEFINITLY know the usual force powers. I don't mind that, my point is, you can't prove it. and what count as the usual force powers? (lightning, shove, choke?) those really don't help his case as a powerful force user.

I would be all for a third KOTOR game that makes Revan the greatest Sith of all-time, i really wouldn't mind. He's probably my favorite Sith south of Vader. You just can't prove it right now. You have to be able to see that, i mean, don't you? Well, let me put that another way, You can't PROVE ANYTHING about him right now, but the most you can make us assume is that he wasn't below average.

We don't know how much knowledge bane gained from the Revan holocron vs. what he gained from the other holocrons, so you can't really put a measure on his knowledge that way either.

btw, you act like i don't like revan, or KOTOR. I love both. I'd love a KOTOR 3, if it came out on a console only, i might go buy a console, thats how much i like it. I'm just a little more realistic about what we can glean about a video game character from mix-n-match force powers from a menu of choices...

Finally, there was a 67% chance that Revan NEVER used a lightsaber very well. The game was made for one of three modes of combat:
Soldier, in that one, Revan WOULD be a skilled, dominant lightsaber duelist, no problem,
2nd, Scoundrel: A class that favored blasters and explosives, making the scoundrel smart enough to use droids in many situations to avoid combat entirely. If a scoundrel, on should assume revan used blasters, its only fair.
3rd, scouts DEFINITLY favor explosives and alternate methods of fighting other than head-on battles. In that case, explosives probably would be the weapon of choice, with blasters second, based on skill dispersal.

There you have it, only 1 in 3 would definitely favor using a melee weapon. I can't see how you called my original statement about him possibly using a blaster or explosive combination as a primary weapon choice "ridiculous"

Ok, I apologize for the remark about you not liking Revan. I do understand that was your opinion however I do not agree with everything you said. I believe the game allows us to draw some logical conclusions about Revan and that is why I listed A.C.S. remarks.

If my logic is flawed that a Sith Lord who ruled over thousands would have to know more than the basic force techniques, please correct me by stating a sith lord who did rule over thousands and did not know or only knew the basic techniques of the force.

Also Revan fight with Malak on SF is mention as a duel between them two. Revan might have used many things however we do know that Malak knew force lighting, choke, and force drain. Logic would say that a person would a least have to know techniques and more than the basic ones to defeat a dark force user on SF with those skills.

Originally posted by Borbarad
The very point is that Dooku and Sidious isn't known for carrying an entire bunch of explosives and medi-packs around in combat. Or let me rephrase that: It is unlikely that Revan archieved the things he did by the use of such weapons. But then it's also unlikely, that he let's six members of his crew stay at a ship without reason .

And what remains in form of canon is basically Revan's fights against people who's own power is defined by their standing in comparison to Revan - who himself is an unknown.

I understand Borbarad. Question how would we define Malak's power? Markos Ragnos is view as powerful because he ruled the sith for 100 years. Malak knew force drain which is not a technique many sith lords knew according to my knowledge at least in the PT era.

Originally posted by Borbarad
I think the actual point was, that the Video Game characters are hyped beyond believe and equipped with ridiculous powers, just to give the player the opportunity to play some powerful individuals. Think about Starkiller being equipped with the potential to become the most powerful force user ever - this in a universe where you have people conceived by midi-chlorians running around. Absolute bullshit, if you ask me. Which is also the case for some actions you can produce while playing the KotoR games. I mean, what the hell? The Exile apparently took out the entire population of the Trayus Academy, sometimes facing off against three or more force using opponents at once - all on her own. You really consider that to be realistic using the "normal" rules of the SW universe? I don't.

Well I guess we need a novel on Revan. Kotor3 game definitely is not going to help any arguments here since the games are not looked at as any reliable source to gain info on a character.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Dooku is more powerful than any of the videogame characters.

doubt it.
mhm including galen?