Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Setting: Felucia

Conditions: None of this sabers or Force only bullshit that's been running rampant around here. All opponents are expected to use whatever methods necessary to win.

I have to go with Mace and Sora. Ive always thought Mace could beat Dooku in a fight, but idk anything about Sora, so if she could just hold Ventress off till Mace can help i think they would win.

Ventress gets wrecked here...

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
I have to go with Mace and Sora. Ive always thought Mace could beat Dooku in a fight, but idk anything about Sora, so if she could just hold Ventress off till Mace can help i think they would win.

Sora is male.

Team one wins. Mace wrecks Dooku, and although I think Ventress probably beats Bulq, she's no match for Windu.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Sora is male.

Team one wins. Mace wrecks Dooku, and although I think Ventress probably beats Bulq, she's no match for Windu.

Doh! Well i did say i didnt know anything about Sora, thanks for letting me know!

I don't see Ventress beating Bulq. He was Dooku's second in the Confederacy for a reason. He was widely considered one of the best duelists in the galaxy, the saber instructor of the Jedi Temple, a Vaapad Master and the most powerful of the Dark Acolytes.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I don't see Ventress beating Bulq. He was Dooku's second in the Confederacy for a reason. He was widely considered one of the best duelists in the galaxy, the saber instructor of the Jedi Temple, a Vaapad Master and the most powerful of the Dark Acolytes.

Well, I'll defer to you, then. Bulq got f'd by Dooku as easily as Ventress did. But Ventress has more feats.

Hmm, ok then, what if we replace Ventress with Shak Ti and move the setting to Dantooine?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Well, I'll defer to you, then. Bulq got f'd by Dooku as easily as Ventress did. But Ventress has more feats.

True, but she doesn't have the same backing as Sora. She's also got far more mainstream appeal to appear in stuff than Sora does...he's mainly kept to the comics and only a few of them at that, mostly where he stands around looking menacing at Dooku's side.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ventress gets wrecked here...
This is true. In the Clone Wars, Yoda makes Ventress run away without brushing a hand on his saber. He stopped her lightsabers with the force, relieved her of her sabers. Mace will dominate her in seconds with the force then Bulq and him will KO the Count.
EDIT: How does Mace "wreck" Dooku. Oh and if we replace Ventress with Shaak Ti, Team Dooku will win. Two Makashi Masters defeat the two Vaapad users

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
This is true. In the Clone Wars, Yoda makes Ventress run away without brushing a hand on his saber. He stopped her lightsabers with the force, relieved her of her sabers. Mace will dominate her in seconds with the force then Bulq and him will KO the Count

You think they'd use Mace to kill Ventress?? When Dooku is on the opposing team?

Bulq can hold Dooku longer than Ventress can hold off Mace, but, if it goes the other way Bulq takes Ventress, Bulq and Mace take Dooku.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Bulq can hold Dooku longer than Ventress can hold off Mace, but, if it goes the other way Bulq takes Ventress, Bulq and Mace take Dooku.

Um, excuse me, but Dooku owned Obiwan in like ten seconds. Sora wouldn't last any longer.

BTW, I don't seem how replacing Ventress with Shaak Ti would help. Ventress is stronger than Shaak.

^Ventress stronger than Shaak, please. This is the Jedi Master regarded as one of the greaterswordbeigns by Mace and Yoda, manipulated a Dark Side oriented world into her personal *****, took on dozens of Magna Guards, who have been shown to KO Jedi. What has ventress done to match this. Shaak is a beast with the force, especially considering she is more powerful than Kazdan Paratus, who created armies of droids, and defeated legions of battle droids by himself. And you do have a point about Bulq. If Ventress pulls a victory from bulq the Sith take it. I'd say 5/5 both ways. Unless it is Shaak then Team Dooku wins

And Ventress was basically a match for Obi-wan. Nuff said

Originally posted by Enyalus
It's said she is one of the Order's "great bladebeings" in the ROTS novelization.

As for the second thing you asked - it is stated in TFU novelization that she is a master of Makashi and Ataru.

Hell, that says a lot for Shaak Ti. Starkiller was, as I recall, a master of Juyo. So her proficiency was such that she was able to dominate him by a fair margin, though he is a "high end master of multiple forms."

Originally posted by Gideon
Hell, that says a lot for Shaak Ti. Starkiller was, as I recall, a master of Juyo. So her proficiency was such that she was able to dominate him by a fair margin, though he is a "high end master of multiple forms."

I hadn't thought about that side of things. I don't have the novel. Doesn't it depict her bladework being much faster than his (probably a consequence of her Makashi)?

Originally posted by Enyalus
It's said she is one of the Order's "great bladebeings" in the ROTS novelization.

As for the second thing you asked - it is stated in TFU novelization that she is a master of Makashi and Ataru.
We agree on one thing yay

Ventress was able to take down Obi-wan a few times though, and Obi-wan was THE Soresu master, and one of the top in the Order. Does anyone really think Shaak Ti could take Obi-wan? If she could then she'd probably be better than Ventress, but she's just not.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ventress was able to take down Obi-wan a few times though, and Obi-wan was THE Soresu master, and one of the top in the Order. Does anyone really think Shaak Ti could take Obi-wan? If she could then she'd probably be better than Ventress, but she's just not.

He was still learning Soresu in AOTC - rookie enough to not feel confident using it. When, exactly, does he become a true master of the form is the question.

If Dooku and Grievous couldn't break through Obi-Wan's Soresu's defenses, I doubt Ventress would.

It's said she is one of the Order's "great bladebeings" in the ROTS novelization.Passage. Ctrl + F only found the word "bladesbeing" once, and that was in reference to Mace Windu and Agen Kolar.

I'd ask for the passage, but I'll take your word for it.

And where is Starkiller stated to be a Juyo master?

~

He's been learning it for eleven years as of The Cestus Deception; hardly a rookie.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He was still learning Soresu in AOTC - rookie enough to not feel confident using it. When, exactly, does he become a true master of the form is the question.

If Dooku and Grievous couldn't break through Obi-Wan's Soresu's defenses, I doubt Ventress would.

Ventress did break through them, multiple times!

Seeing as he fights Ventress just a very short time before ROTS he was basically the master of it at when he and she fought. And as Faunus said, a decade of training isn't exactly rookie status.

Originally posted by Faunus
Passage. Ctrl + F only found the word "bladesbeing" once, and that was in reference to Mace Windu and Agen Kolar.

'There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become.'

Originally posted by Faunus
And where is Starkiller stated to be a Juyo master?

I don't know. Gideon said he was trained in Makashi, Shien, and Juyo (I think.) Maybe gotten from the Official Databank?



Originally posted by Faunus
He's been learning it for eleven years as of The Cestus Deception; hardly a rookie.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ventress did break through them, multiple times!

Seeing as he fights Ventress just a very short time before ROTS he was basically the master of it at when he and she fought. And as Faunus said, a decade of training isn't exactly rookie status.

Let's clear this up:

'Form VI, also called Niman, is the current standard in lightsaber training...it is less intensive in its demands than the other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, political strategy and negotiation...How long can you expect to study Form VI before you master it? If you dedicate yourself only to Form VI, you will study for at least ten years...Is Form VI the most worthy of study? No, but in general it is the most practical.' - Cin Drallig.

Soresu would clearly take even longer to master. While fighting Ventress, he was not as good saber wise as he was shown to be in Revenge of the Sith.

Originally posted by Enyalus
'There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become.'

Page number?

Originally posted by Enyalus
I don't know. Gideon said he was trained in Makashi, Shien, and Juyo (I think.) Maybe gotten from the Official Databank?

You should probably find out.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Let's clear this up:

'Form VI, also called Niman, is the current standard in lightsaber training...it is less intensive in its demands than the other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, political strategy and negotiation...How long can you expect to study Form VI before you master it? If you dedicate yourself only to Form VI, you will study for at least ten years...Is Form VI the most worthy of study? No, but in general it is the most practical.' - Cin Drallig.

I really doubt it takes EVERYONE at least ten years to master a form. The main thing is that you're claiming that Obi-wan somehow progressed more in the final months of the War than he had in the previous 30 years. That's totally ridiculous.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Soresu would clearly take even longer to master. While fighting Ventress, he was not as good saber wise as he was shown to be in Revenge of the Sith.

Actually it's not at all clear that it would take Obi-wan such a long time to master the form. We know that as of 13 years he was the definitive master of the form and there is nothing to suggest a sudden leap in skill since the last times he had fought Ventress. You have no real claims backing up what your'e saying, proving you arguments wrong.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Page number?

I used an e-book...hence Faunus' suggestion about CTRL+F. Secondly, why does it matter? I make up quotes now?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You should probably find out.

Why the **** should I find out? I wasn't even the one who brought it up in this thread or any other. That was Gideon. In this very thread. Page 1. Towards the bottom.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I really doubt it takes EVERYONE at least ten years to master a form. The main thing is that you're claiming that Obi-wan somehow progressed more in the final months of the War than he had in the previous 30 years. That's totally ridiculous.

What's totally ridiculous is you arguing against what the Jedi Temple's Battlemaster said. Cin Drallig has mastered all seven forms. Cin Drallig has made holocrons on lightsaber combat. That, and since he is quoted in a sourcebook as saying this, I'm inclined to take his word over yours. Moreover, 30 years is irrelevant. He'd been learning Soresu for 11.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Actually it's not at all clear that it would take Obi-wan such a long time to master the form. We know that as of 13 years he was the definitive master of the form and there is nothing to suggest a sudden leap in skill since the last times he had fought Ventress. You have no real claims backing up what your'e saying, proving you arguments wrong.

It is that clear. The Jedi Order's head battlemaster says so. Furthermore, he's the best master of Soresu in the PT era. This whole 'definitive' and 'the' master of it thing makes you sound misleading. And since it was your assertion that 'Seeing as he fights Ventress just a very short time before ROTS he was basically the master of it at when he and she fought,' that would be your burden to prove, since he is only quoted as being the master of it as of ROTS.

'There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become.'Ah. Thanks.

Hopefully he'll see this and clear it up, because it's not in the Databank.

I'm not arguing that he had already mastered Soresu by CD, not at all. My contention is that, even a year into the war, he was severely outmatched by Ventress on neutral ground, although he was always the more adaptable of the two. Clearly his technical ability improved rather drastically, but I can't see him improving more in less than two years than he did in eleven.

Don't forget how Obi does in the CW movie, though. Doesn't that take place post CD?

I have no idea when it takes place. The two go back and forth, really, fighting at least half a dozen times throughout the war, which is why I'm now under the impression that on top of simply being an inferior swordsman at the time, Obi-Wan was completely taken aback by her style of fighting. Maybe he patched up some holes in his technique later on; perhaps a less drastic version of the changes he made after his duel with Maul.

Originally posted by Faunus
I'm not arguing that he had already mastered Soresu by CD, not at all. My contention is that, even a year into the war, he was severely outmatched by Ventress on neutral ground, although he was always the more adaptable of the two. Clearly his technical ability improved rather drastically, but I can't see him improving more in less than two years than he did in eleven.

That was more toward's Glentract. And while I don't necessarily like using ABC logic...in ROTS he was able to comfortably handle General Grievous, and saber-wise deal with Count Dooku just fine (the novelization notes he was picking off Dooku's feints and thrusts without moving his feet at all). Bulq was Dooku's #2. I don't know how far down on the list Ventress was, whether she was superior to Grievous or not, but I can't see her faring nearly as well as Obi-Wan fares against Dooku and GG in ROTS. Suggesting that his improvement must have been considerable.

Mace and Tyrannus will spar until Bulq's come's to Windu's aid. Vaapad=Dead Ventress.

Originally posted by Enyalus

I used an e-book...hence Faunus' suggestion about CTRL+F. Secondly, why does it matter? I make up quotes now?

I wasn't trying to say that you're making it up. I didn't know it was an e-book and I just wanted to look at it myself for context reasons. No need to get defensive.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Why the **** should I find out? I wasn't even the one who brought it up in this thread or any other. That was Gideon. In this very thread. Page 1. Towards the bottom.

Why the **** are you getting so mad? Lol

You cited the statement as fact so technically you have a burden to prove it, but whatever, it's cool. I'm sure Gideon will tell us soon enough.

Originally posted by Enyalus
What's totally ridiculous is you arguing against what the Jedi Temple's Battlemaster said. Cin Drallig has mastered all seven forms. Cin Drallig has made holocrons on lightsaber combat. That, and since he is quoted in a sourcebook as saying this, I'm inclined to take his word over yours. Moreover, 30 years is irrelevant. He'd been learning Soresu for 11.

You aren't saying what he said? What he speaking SPECIFICALLY to OBI-WAN when he said it would take a decade just to master Soresu? Obi-wan is obviously far above the average Jedi, which was Cin's target audience with that claim.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It is that clear. The Jedi Order's head battlemaster says so. Furthermore, he's the best master of Soresu in the PT era. This whole 'definitive' and 'the' master of it thing makes you sound misleading. And since it was your assertion that 'Seeing as he fights Ventress just a very short time before ROTS he was basically the master of it at when he and she fought,' that would be your burden to prove, since he is only quoted as being the master of it as of ROTS.

It's not that clear because the target audience for Cin's statement doesn't apply.

And I don't see how my responsibility for proof extends beyond what is already known, seeing as the status quo would leave a Jedi unchanged in capability. Outside factors, (aka finding a holocron, gaining some new, very powerful, skill, an amulet, ect) would be what would be expected for Obi-wan prowess to have significantly changed.

Hence, I ask you to show a significant change in Obi-wan's capabilities between his final fight with Asajj and ROTS. Your burden, not mine.

Originally posted by Faunus
I have no idea when it takes place. The two go back and forth, really, fighting at least half a dozen times throughout the war, which is why I'm now under the impression that on top of simply being an inferior swordsman at the time, Obi-Wan was completely taken aback by her style of fighting. Maybe he patched up some holes in his technique later on; perhaps a less drastic version of the changes he made after his duel with Maul.

I could be wrong, but isn't the only time Ventress really does well against him in CD? The other times, Obi-wan manages to more than hold his own at disadvantages

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Why the **** are you getting so mad? Lol

You cited the statement as fact so technically you have a burden to prove it, but whatever, it's cool. I'm sure Gideon will tell us soon enough.

I didn't cite anything of the sort in this or any other thread. Period.
Originally posted by Gideon
Hell, that says a lot for Shaak Ti. Starkiller was, as I recall, a master of Juyo. So her proficiency was such that she was able to dominate him by a fair margin, though he is a "high end master of multiple forms."

That's the only time in this thread Juyo is even mentioned until Faunus and yourself brought it up.

Wait, does anyone really think that Ventress was a match for Obi-Wan a few months before RotS?

Is that why in the CW movie he ltierally whooped her ass with a smile on his face, and she couldn' teven scratch him when he was using his fists and she was using her lightsaber?

The CW movie is a lot earlier in the war than a few months...

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Wait, does anyone really think that Ventress was a match for Obi-Wan a few months before RotS?

Is that why in the CW movie he ltierally whooped her ass with a smile on his face, and she couldn' teven scratch him when he was using his fists and she was using her lightsaber?

The CW movie is a lot earlier in the war than a few months...

I haven't seen the movie, Blax. But hey - thanks. If that's true, that just furthers my point.

Yeah, he embarrassed her. It was kind of disghusting, actually, because I like ventress and it was kind of sad to see Obi-Wan defeat her with so little effort.

0Ay-Nso88Hs


No matter what anyone says or how you look at it, Obi-Wan was owning the shit out of her.

edit-

Though I guess one can make an argument for Assaj just improving by the time RotS rolls around. Maybe.

Heh. No doubt. That clip showed Obi-Wan being not only faster with a blade, but with his body. Not to mention physically stronger. He certainly outclassed her.

Though him losing his weapon early on leads me to conclude that he still hadn't fully mastered Soresu.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

No matter what anyone says or how you look at it, Obi-Wan was owning the shit out of her. Ignoring the fact that that's your opinion, Kenobi has retreated from Ventress twice in the comics as is, and only survived his duel in CD because of Fisto's intervention. As of RotS he's probably better overall, but it's by a very small margin.

Originally posted by Faunus
Ignoring the fact that that's your opinion,

And you'd have to be an idiot to not surmise the same thing.

Feel free to explain why she couldn't land a single scratch when he didn't even have a lightsaber... that's not "opinion". That's fact.
And as noted, him using one hand was able to push back Assaj's strength and her body weight.

Seriously, man.



I don't recall him having too difficult a time with her in Obsession either, though I haven't read the comic in awhile.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Yeah, he embarrassed her. It was kind of disghusting, actually, because I like ventress and it was kind of sad to see Obi-Wan defeat her with so little effort.

0Ay-Nso88Hs


No matter what anyone says or how you look at it, Obi-Wan was owning the shit out of her.

LOL, Obi-Wan darling-ed her. I can't believe she let him get away with that.

And, Enyalus, I would just like to destroy the misconception that Obi-Wan somehow defeated Grievous with ease. He did not, and both the script and the novelization support that- you can even seen it via his expression during the saberlock between them.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
And, Enyalus, I would just like to destroy the misconception that Obi-Wan somehow defeated Grievous with ease. He did not, and both the script and the novelization support that- you can even seen it via his expression during the saberlock between them.

The novelization is pretty clear that he was able to dismember Grievous' multiple arms easily enough. And saberlock? Of course he'd have difficulty with that. Grievous has immense physical strength.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The novelization is pretty clear that he was able to dismember Grievous' multiple arms easily enough. And saberlock? Of course he'd have difficulty with that. Grievous has immense physical strength.

I don't know if 'easily enough' is the correct word. Considering that Grievous was capable of overloading Obi-Wan's nigh-impenetrable defense, I'd say that should speak for Grievous' ability and Obi-Wan's overall difficulty in the fight. He certainly didn't beat Grievous 'comfortably'.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I don't know if 'easily enough' is the correct word. Considering that Grievous was capable of overloading Obi-Wan's nigh-impenetrable defense, I'd say that should speak for Grievous' ability and Obi-Wan's overall difficulty in the fight. He certainly didn't beat Grievous 'comfortably'.

Yeah, he does. He's easily blocking 12-16 strikes per second (he's thinking that - I'll find the quote when home). When it becomes too much, he switches to offense and disarms him by simply reangling the blade and sliding it upward a little.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah, he does. He's easily blocking 12-16 strikes per second (he's thinking that - I'll find the quote when home). When it becomes too much, he switches to offense and disarms him by simply reangling the blade and sliding it upward a little.

'Easily'? You're going to have to prove that.

And according to the script- which does not contradict the movie or add things that aren't seen in it during the fight- Obi-Wan was hard-pressed to fend off Grievous:

"OBI-WAN is hard-pressed to defend himself against the deadly onslaught."

So, yeah.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And you'd have to be an idiot to not surmise the same thing.

Feel free to explain why she couldn't land a single scratch when he didn't even have a lightsaber... that's not "opinion". That's fact.
And as noted, him using one hand was able to push back Assaj's strength and her body weight.

Seriously, man.

Wow. I really don't see how that video showed him "owning" her at all. It was either even or tilted slightly in her favor most of the time. And Asajj was definately using her strength to fight off Obi-wan's Force push?

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
'Easily'? You're going to have to prove that.

And according to the script- which does not contradict the movie or add things that aren't seen in it during the fight- Obi-Wan was hard-pressed to fend off Grievous:

"OBI-WAN is hard-pressed to defend himself against the deadly onslaught."

So, yeah.

'The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twelve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, an unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life. Not one touched him.

After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters.

Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks-sixteen per second, eighteen-until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack. A subtle shift in the angle of a single parry brought Obi-Wan's blade in contact not with the blade of the oncoming lightsaber, but with the handgrip. -slice-

The blade winked out of existence a hairbreadth before it would have burned through Obi-Wan's forehead. Half the severed lightsaber skittered away, along with the duranium thumb and first finger of the hand that had held it.

Grievous paused, eyes pulsing wide, then drawing narrow. He lifted his maimed hand and stared at the white-hot stumps that held now only half a useless lightsaber.

Obi-Wan smiled at him.

Grievous lunged.

Obi-Wan parried.

Pieces of lightsabers bounced on the durasteel deck.

Grievous looked down at the blade-sliced hunks of metal that were all he had left in his hands, then up at Obi-Wan's shining sky-colored blade, then down at his hands again, and then he seemed to suddenly remember that he had an urgent appointment somewhere else.

Anywhere else.

Obi-Wan stepped toward him...'

Sure. It says difficult (precluded with an 'only'), but does that really sound like Obi-Wan was having a hard time with Grievous at all? Even the slightest bit? He dominated him. Grievous was afraid while Obi-Wan was smiling - he was in complete control.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Wow. I really don't see how that video showed him "owning" her at all.

Than put on your glasses.

Originally posted by Enyalus
'The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twelve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, an unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life. Not one touched him.

After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters.

Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks-sixteen per second, eighteen-until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack. A subtle shift in the angle of a single parry brought Obi-Wan's blade in contact not with the blade of the oncoming lightsaber, but with the handgrip. -slice-

The blade winked out of existence a hairbreadth before it would have burned through Obi-Wan's forehead. Half the severed lightsaber skittered away, along with the duranium thumb and first finger of the hand that had held it.

Grievous paused, eyes pulsing wide, then drawing narrow. He lifted his maimed hand and stared at the white-hot stumps that held now only half a useless lightsaber.

Obi-Wan smiled at him.

Grievous lunged.

Obi-Wan parried.

Pieces of lightsabers bounced on the durasteel deck.

Grievous looked down at the blade-sliced hunks of metal that were all he had left in his hands, then up at Obi-Wan's shining sky-colored blade, then down at his hands again, and then he seemed to suddenly remember that he had an urgent appointment somewhere else.

Anywhere else.

Obi-Wan stepped toward him...'

Sure. It says difficult (precluded with an 'only'), but does that really sound like Obi-Wan was having a hard time with Grievous at all? Even the slightest bit? He dominated him. Grievous was afraid while Obi-Wan was smiling - he was in complete control.

So? It never once states if Obi-Wan actually handled Grievous barrage with ease- in fact, we have to assume that it was difficult for him, considering that Obi-Wan's defense was 'overloaded' when Grievous reached his maximum capability. Yes, Obi-Wan had a 'hard time' fending Grievous off- sure, he was in control of the situation, but blocking Grievous' assault was -this- close to being too much for him.

Originally posted by Faunus
Ignoring the fact that that's your opinion, Kenobi has retreated from Ventress twice in the comics as is, and only survived his duel in CD because of Fisto's intervention. As of RotS he's probably better overall, but it's by a very small margin.

Kenobi never wanted to hurt Ventress in the comics. and in the animation it was Ventress who ran away from Kenobi. although im a bit confused where exactly that fits in continuity.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
So? It never once states if Obi-Wan actually handled Grievous barrage with ease- in fact, we have to assume that it was difficult for him, considering that Obi-Wan's defense was 'overloaded' when Grievous reached his maximum capability. Yes, Obi-Wan had a 'hard time' fending Grievous off- sure, he was in control of the situation, but blocking Grievous' assault was -this- close to being too much for him.

Bull. When Obi-Wan wants to stop defending, it takes him a split second to disarm Grievous. GG attacks again, Obi-Wan uses another parry and off comes yet another arm. The movie depicts similar ownage.

Obi-Wan was dominate. He handled Grievous with ease. I didn't say anything about his 'barrage.'

If we go by 'the movie', Obi-Wan evidently struggles when he gets into a saberlock with General Grievous, so, clearly it wasn't 'easy' for him to gain control of Grievous. Clearly, Obi-Wan's Soresu had difficulty containing General Grievous' barrage.

So, yeah. While Obi-Wan may never have been truly in danger of dying, nothing about the duel was 'easy', or a walk in the park for him.

actaully, the novelization and the movie both make it seem like obi-wan handled the lightsaber duel with ridiculous ease. I was about to type in the exact passage enyalus quoted to prove it from the novel, and on-screen, its even easier. The only place he struggled was in the hand to hand, after losing his lightsaber.

I don't see how this is even an argument. I mean Obi-Wan tooled Grievous. Of course Obi-Wan might have been a little pressed for a second during the saberlock, Grievous has mechanical arms which can probably exert more pressure per square inch than any human could even get close to.

there is nothing besides reasoning that suggest Obi-wan struggled during the saber-lock though... i mean, in the next second grievous is losing arms, so apparently kenobi came out of that lock exactly how he wanted to.

Originally posted by truejedi
there is nothing besides reasoning that suggest Obi-wan struggled during the saber-lock though... i mean, in the next second grievous is losing arms, so apparently kenobi came out of that lock exactly how he wanted to.

I was referring to the expression he has on his face. I would imagine anyone would have a strained expression while holding back the amount of force Grievous can exert.

Originally posted by truejedi
there is nothing besides reasoning that suggest Obi-wan struggled during the saber-lock though... i mean, in the next second grievous is losing arms, so apparently kenobi came out of that lock exactly how he wanted to.

Agreed. And using 5% of the duel (one saberlock) to justify the argument that Obi-Wan struggled is simply idiotic. Especially when strength =/ dueling skill and really had little bearing on the outcome of the battle.

According to the novelization, Obi-Wan was basically in a state of oneness with the Force during his two fights with the general.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Than put on your glasses.

Still not seeing it.

Originally posted by Gideon
According to the novelization, Obi-Wan was basically in a state of oneness with the Force during his two fights with the general.

you notice obi-wan was pretty much that way constantly though? i would put him forth as the jedi "most commonly" one with the force. The only places where we don't see that obi-wan is in combat, and in some sort of zone, or place of force mastery is his two fights with tyranus.

Mace Windu>Assaj Ventress
Mace Windu>Darth Tyrannus
Darth Tyrannus>Sora Bulq

SO TYRANNUS > ASSAJ VENTRESS RITE?


IF YOU UNDERSTAND LOGIC YOU WILL SEE HOW FUNNY THAT ACTUALLY WAS.


MY CAPS LOCK IS BROKEN HOW DO I FIX IT IF U DONT TELL ME UR A NERD IM TOO HARD FOR THIS BRACKET I GREW UP IN DA HOOD

Nemesis, you grew up on the streets because your mom- for the second in which she was sober- understood that you are a detriment to mankind and threw your ass out of the house.

She forgot to shoot you, though. I must take care of that significant little detail.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
She forgot to shoot you, though. I must take care of that significant little detail.

Do you know what a single bullet costs nowadays? I'd call that a waste of money.

Nah. We're talking about the bane of humanity here.

Or could you please give me one? Just one. He'll kill you, too.

HEY!!111

SHES NEVER BEEN SOBER WER IN DA HOOD U DONT NOW HOW TO PPL CAN CHANJ CANT YOU STOP BEIN A NERD OR ALL GOTTA HAVE 2 ************ AND ****U U DUM ***,,,

MY CAPS LOCK IS STILL BROKEN,,,

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Nah. We're talking about the bane of humanity here.


Don't give him more credit than he deserves.



Unless he bores me to death, I don't see that happen. But don't worry. If he ever comes close to archieve that task, I'll do the job for you...