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1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All out

Who wins?

1.Obi-Wan
2. Marek
3. Marek with difficulty.

Marek always fights long saber-duels with his opponent, then he realizes he can't win with sabers, he trashes them with the force. I can see something similar happening here.

Who would win in a Force fight Tyrannus or Marek?

Tyranus. End of story.

Then how did Marek pwn Vader and hold his own against Sids for a few?

The game is weird.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Then how did Marek pwn Vader and hold his own against Sids for a few?

The game is weird. By using his force-powers. In a saber fight, he's often outclassed.

In a force fight Marek wins against dooku. Marek actually beat darth vader with the force and stopped sidious' lightning with his bare hands. I doubt dooku could do that. Dooku may have a greater mastery of the force, but marek's raw power surpasses dooku's one.

That's why I say marek takes the force and all-out contest, even though I think obi-wan may win in the saber contest.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Who would win in a Force fight Tyrannus or Marek? Marek. End of story.

But not easily at all.

Obi-Wan takes the sabers, but loses in the Force and All-out.

i just realized though, that Obi-wan beat Vader Pre-Suit, and marek beat Suited Vader, and those are their main accomplishments, respectively, and we all picked the guy who beat suited Vader. Does that makes sense?

Originally posted by truejedi
i just realized though, that Obi-wan beat Vader Pre-Suit, and marek beat Suited Vader, and those are their main accomplishments, respectively, and we all picked the guy who beat suited Vader. Does that makes sense?

I've learned that on KMC, Force superiority > Lightsaber superiority.

Suited Vader was much better with the Force.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I've learned that on KMC, Force superiority > Lightsaber superiority.

Suited Vader was much better with the Force.

almost every duel in the mythos comes down to sabers though. with the exception of bane-Kas'im, Sidious-Yoda, Mace-Sidious... and... i think that's about it... So basically, if you aren't one of the most powerful sith of all time, your fight is going to end saber to saber.

Originally posted by truejedi
almost every duel in the mythos comes down to sabers though. with the exception of bane-Kas'im, Sidious-Yoda, Mace-Sidious... and... i think that's about it... So basically, if you aren't one of the most powerful sith of all time, your fight is going to end saber to saber.

Don't look at me for that answer. I don't agree with it. Superior saber users have killed superior force users in the past. More than a few times.

an all out can be decided by either Force or saber skills, or maybe a mix of both. in the animated movie Dooku and Anakin fitted in a Force fight in the middle of their Saber fight, and Dooku very almost took the all out fight because of that.

depends on surroundings, environment, and how the fight starts.

Originally posted by truejedi
i just realized though, that Obi-wan beat Vader Pre-Suit, and marek beat Suited Vader, and those are their main accomplishments, respectively, and we all picked the guy who beat suited Vader. Does that makes sense?

That, my friend is an example of ABC logic. It's like saying "Anakin beat Dooku who beat Kenobi, so Kenobi should not be able to beat Anakin."

It doesn't work because it doesn't account for numerous factors that have an influence on the outcome; location of fight, mindset of the fighters etc.

A) Kenobi fought a Vader who was enraged and out of control. Marek fought a Vader who was much more in control of himself.

B) Kenobi and Vader fought in a very hazardous environment where they had to leap to the few safe areas. Kenobi exploited this to his advantage. Suppose they had fought in a grassy meadow where Kenobi would not have been able to use his "high ground" tactic. See how the fight would not have been the same.

C) Kenobi trained Anakin and knew his moves inside out. Marek was trained by Vader who had complete control over how much knowledge he recieved. He could well have held something back from him.

I don't like Galen.

I will say Obi-Wan destroys him in sabers. As for Force Powers I won't comment. I really didn't like how Galen pawned Vader and then proceeded to almost stalemate Palpatine.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
That, my friend is an example of ABC logic. It's like saying "Anakin beat Dooku who beat Kenobi, so Kenobi should not be able to beat Anakin."

It doesn't work because it doesn't account for numerous factors that have an influence on the outcome; location of fight, mindset of the fighters etc.

A) Kenobi fought a Vader who was enraged and out of control. Marek fought a Vader who was much more in control of himself.

B) Kenobi and Vader fought in a very hazardous environment where they had to leap to the few safe areas. Kenobi exploited this to his advantage. Suppose they had fought in a grassy meadow where Kenobi would not have been able to use his "high ground" tactic. See how the fight would not have been the same.

C) Kenobi trained Anakin and knew his moves inside out. Marek was trained by Vader who had complete control over how much knowledge he recieved. He could well have held something back from him. "Could" being the operative term. Oh, and all the knowledge Marek received during his missions? All part of Vader's plan eh?

Originally posted by Lucien A
"Could" being the operative term. Oh, and all the knowledge Marek received during his missions? All part of Vader's plan eh?

Have you ever heard of speaking figuratively? I was talking about the training and knowedge he received during his formative years, before he was ever sent on any missions.

And true, we can only say 'could.' But use a little common sense; Vader never intended him to be anything more than a pawn. He never intended Marek to replace him as Sith Lord or anything. So it's quite feasible that Vader did not teach him everything he knew in order to keep an ace up his sleeve.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Have you ever heard of speaking figuratively? I was talking about the training and knowedge he received during his formative years, before he was ever sent on any missions.
This was not "speaking figuratively." This was ignorance or intentional disregard for facts. Speaking Figuratively would require that you used a word in a manner not entirely consistent with its meaning. This is an easy mistake to make, but you were not speaking figuratively. You were just wrong.

Originally posted by chilled monkey

And true, we can only say 'could.' But use a little common sense; Vader never intended him to be anything more than a pawn. He never intended Marek to replace him as Sith Lord or anything. So it's quite feasible that Vader did not teach him everything he knew in order to keep an ace up his sleeve.

But as pointed out, Marek gained knowledge and skills from sources other than Vader. Besides, he'd teach him as much as he could while keeping power over him, because a pawn is no good if the pawn can't get anything done.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis

This was not "speaking figuratively." This was ignorance or intentional disregard for facts. Speaking Figuratively would require that you used a word in a manner not entirely consistent with its meaning. This is an easy mistake to make, but you were not speaking figuratively. You were just wrong.



But as pointed out, Marek gained knowledge and skills from sources other than Vader. Besides, he'd teach him as much as he could while keeping power over him, because a pawn is no good if the pawn can't get anything done.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The point I was trying to make was a comparison between Kenobi and Galen's knowledge of Anakin's fighting skills.

Kenobi trained Anakin and they fought as a team throughout most of the Clone Wars. So Kenobi would know Anakin's moves inside out.

Galen was trained by Vader/Anakin for most of his life. Plus they did not fight together for years as a team. My point was simply that Galen would not have the same deep knowledge and understanding of Vader's fighting style that Kenobi had.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Sorry, I should have been more clear. The point I was trying to make was a comparison between Kenobi and Galen's knowledge of Anakin's fighting skills.

Kenobi trained Anakin and they fought as a team throughout most of the Clone Wars. So Kenobi would know Anakin's moves inside out.

Galen was trained by Vader/Anakin for most of his life. Plus they did not fight together for years as a team. My point was simply that Galen would not have the same deep knowledge and understanding of Vader's fighting style that Kenobi had.

This is all true. In retrospect your original point was correct. ABC doesn't apply here. The only problem I can see is that one of your supporting facts (the intentional gaps in Starkiller's training) didn't really apply (because he had a chance to fill those gaps). Your argument was right, but that one piece of evidence was not. Everything else seems to make sense though.

Essentially, I agree with you.