Viktor vs Markus

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Markus Corvinus
Okay, since Viktor was able to take on Michael, a hybrid, and beat him, whereas Marcus got owned, I'd say Viktor would win. Now, this doesn't mean Markus is a weakling, but he couldn't take Michael. Only when he caught him off guard did he beat him. Viktor, on the other hand, fought him hand to hand, and was about to kill him, had it not been for Selene. I could be wrong, and Markus could viciously beat his ass, but I want to hear some replies, nonetheless.

Battle of the Elders

Viktor

http://www.freewebs.com/realmoftheunderworld/Viktor.jpg

VS

Markus

http://www.vfxtalk.com/feature/luma_pictures/underworld2/luma_underworld_header.jpg

What do you guys think?

Rogue Jedi
Michael was a newly born vamp/lycan, I doubt he had time to get used to his new powers.

Markus Corvinus
True, but he owned Marcus, and he was giving Viktor a good fight, but was beaten. I do think that Viktor may have still won had Michael been used to his powers.

But, between Markus & Viktor, who would you say is stronger?

Rogue Jedi
Markus versus Michael in the back of the truck? Is this the fight you mean?

Markus Corvinus
Yes, indeed. I've watched that movie about 6 times this week, maybe more, and Markus got his ass owned.

Rogue Jedi
I beg to differ. It was a draw until the end, when Markus threw Michael out of the truck like a rag doll.

Markus Corvinus
Michael got more hits in, but yeah, he did get thrown out like a ragdoll. It could've just been because Markus wasn't ready to face him as he was unaware of his power, so that could be a reason. Lots of characters lose fights because they underestimate their opponents.

Rogue Jedi
Remember when the cops were shooting at Micheal? He was visibly hurt, it took Selene's blood to heal him. Markus took dozens of hits from Selen's Beretta at point blank range and shrugged them off as if they were nothing.

Markus Corvinus
Yeah, I thought about that shortly after my last post, but was too lazy to notice. Now it makes me wonder if Viktor could take as many shots and shrug them off...probably not.

Here's an interesting question: Why do people believe Markus was a hybrid?

Rogue Jedi
Because of the wings I guess.

Markus Corvinus
I guess it's because that Lycan scientist's blood dripped into his catacomb, but that hardly would result in him becoming a hybrid.

Rogue Jedi
Wait, wasn't he son of the immortal Corvinus?

Markus Corvinus
Yes, he was, and he got bitten by bat. He offered Viktor the gift of immortality for his military expertise (sp?), and both Viktor and Ameila undercut Marcus' power.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Remember when the cops were shooting at Micheal? He was visibly hurt, it took Selene's blood to heal him. Markus took dozens of hits from Selen's Beretta at point blank range and shrugged them off as if they were nothing.

It tokes selene's blood because Micheal had refused in any way to feed since he became a hybrid, that was the reason to his sudden lose of durability against the Police.

Rogue Jedi
Indeed, good point.

Utrigita
Thanks.

As for the battle itself, I am tempted to give it to Viktor that is a warrior Markus isn't, that alone can make a difference as also could be seen when Micheal and Viktor battled each other, Viktors skill was superior to Micheals gaining him the win, but I'm not sure, I'm quiet sure that Markus is no slug in H2H combat either the problem is that we only saw him in h2h with Micheal that is beneath Viktor... but...

Markus Corvinus
I'm still not entirely sure myself. Viktor seemed to have more feats in his favor. He was able to kill Raze with virtually no effort, and tossed Selene like a ragdoll.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Utrigita
Thanks.

As for the battle itself, I am tempted to give it to Viktor that is a warrior Markus isn't, that alone can make a difference as also could be seen when Micheal and Viktor battled each other, Viktors skill was superior to Micheals gaining him the win, but I'm not sure, I'm quiet sure that Markus is no slug in H2H combat either the problem is that we only saw him in h2h with Micheal that is beneath Viktor... but... And the fact that Michael was a newly born vamp/lycan when he fought Viktor means nothing? He didnt have time to fully adjust to his new powers, did he? I am betting Michael at the end of part two would give Viktor a much better fight.

Markus Corvinus
They fought nearly equal, but what I'm trying to get across is that they fought more equal than Michael & Markus. It seemed like Michael was adaptin well against Viktor, and was an all out beast against Markus.

Dark-Jaxx
Michael was actually pwning Viktor in the ass at first if you remember, but the inexperienced hybrid eventually was overcome by the more experienced Viktor.

Markus Corvinus
Yeah, I know, we all know, which is why many think Viktor himself may have been stronger than Markus.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And the fact that Michael was a newly born vamp/lycan when he fought Viktor means nothing? He didnt have time to fully adjust to his new powers, did he? I am betting Michael at the end of part two would give Viktor a much better fight.

Whether he was getting used to his power ore not is unclear he already within a few minutes had learned to move with the speed that Selene used in the second movie. It was however from my point of view clear that Viktor in skill was above Michael, that skill was what kept Viktor alive. I'm sure he would give him a better fight, since Micheal since then had increased his skills, but what he showed was nothing that I would say that Micheal in skill was above Viktor.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Michael was actually pwning Viktor in the ass at first if you remember, but the inexperienced hybrid eventually was overcome by the more experienced Viktor.

Which was my point. Skills not strength decided the outcome and I have a really hard time gauging just how good Markus is...

Markus Corvinus
Markus seemed about equal with best from what we saw, while Viktor seemed above Viktor in strength and skill. We all must remember the super punch he gave Michael.

Utrigita
Sorry what?

Markus Corvinus
I really don't understand how what I said was in any way unclear.

Utrigita
Viktor seemed above Viktor?

Markus seemed equal with best from what we saw? Best what?

Markus Corvinus
That's what happened when you don't pay attention to what you're typing...

I meant that Viktor seemed a little above Markus, and from what we saw with Markus & Michael on the back of the truck, he was a little equal with Michael at best.

Utrigita
Ahh thanks, agreed.

Markus Corvinus
Sorry, I thought I had typed something else. Lol, my bad.

But yeah, as I was saying, Viktor gave Michael one hell of a punch. I'm still unsure about Markus. You'd think he'd be stronger due to him being the first true vampire, right?

Utrigita
It can happen.

Yes I do but by how much I have no idea, as a Vampire the strongest initially no doubt but again by how much, as we have previous discussed skill could possibly reflect a increased strength with each specie, and Viktors skill is very high, higher then Markus in my opinion. The Hybrid transformation only made him stronger but by how compared to Viktor I have no idea, Viktor put down a Raze with ease, I also think the blood that was mixed has some influence on the increased power between the hybrids. I mean Markus first vampire mixed with a relative (I think) weak lycan. Micheal only two links away from the original link with the vampire and mixed with a very powerful Lycan... but as Selene mentioned being the first have some sort of influence too...

Markus Corvinus
Well, Markus isn't a hybrid, if that's what you're hinting at. The only reason he has the bat form is because of him being the very first vampire, as Tanis explained to Selene. However, I will agree with you that Michael appears to be so strong because he has the blood of an elder (Ameila), not to mention the initial bite from Lucian, and the eventual bite from Selene. He's also shown regeneration skills beyond any other lycan or vampire. That hole in his chest was freakin' huge.

Think he could regenerate from decapitation?

Utrigita
Well Markus is a Hybrid. How do you think he got those wiings he didn't have them when he appeared the first time, he got them because that Lycan, that Viktor killed with a single punch, blood ran down into his mouth and awaked him so I will respectfully disagree, Markus a Hybrid. The rest we can easily agree on.

perhaps if one cut if off and held it maybe...

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Utrigita
Which was my point. Skills not strength decided the outcome and I have a really hard time gauging just how good Markus is... More like experience.

Markus Corvinus
Originally posted by Utrigita
Well Markus is a Hybrid. How do you think he got those wiings he didn't have them when he appeared the first time, he got them because that Lycan, that Viktor killed with a single punch, blood ran down into his mouth and awaked him so I will respectfully disagree, Markus a Hybrid. The rest we can easily agree on.

perhaps if one cut if off and held it maybe...

Eh, no, no, and no. Viktor and Ameila undercut Markus' power, and lied to everyone to say he was the first true vampire. There's no possible way he'd become a hybrid from that little blood. All it did was awaken him, he already had the form seeing as he was the first true vampire. William, bitten by wolf, become a werewolf, Markus, bitten by bat, become a batlike creature.

Robtard
Originally posted by Utrigita
Well Markus is a Hybrid. How do you think he got those wiings he didn't have them when he appeared the first time, he got them because that Lycan, that Viktor killed with a single punch, blood ran down into his mouth and awaked him so I will respectfully disagree, Markus a Hybrid. The rest we can easily agree on.

perhaps if one cut if off and held it maybe...

Markus isn't a hybrid (wolf/bat), he's a vampire, the first Vampire.

Edit: From Wiki

"His blood seeped into Marcus' tomb and revived the slumbering Elder, allowin him to be awakened before Kraven was able to kill him. It is shown here that unlike the other vampires, he has a more bat like form with wings due to him having been the true first vampire."

Just like his brother is more wolf-like than the other Lycans since he was the first werewolf.

Markus Corvinus
That's all I'm saying. Plus, think about this: If it were that simple for him to become a hybrid, why did Lucian go through all of the trouble to get Amelia's blood, and to bite Michael, and then obtain his blood to test it?

Utrigita
Originally posted by Robtard
Markus isn't a hybrid (wolf/bat), he's a vampire, the first Vampire.

Edit: From Wiki

"His blood seeped into Marcus' tomb and revived the slumbering Elder, allowin him to be awakened before Kraven was able to kill him. It is shown here that unlike the other vampires, he has a more bat like form with wings due to him having been the true first vampire."

Just like his brother is more wolf-like than the other Lycans since he was the first werewolf.

Funny because on Wiki the very same site you are using under the picture it says "Marcus in his full hybrid state."

Markus Corvinus
You are aware that anyone can edit wikipedia, and I was the one who had to change it so that it said hybrid. He's not a hybrid, Selene only said so because she had not yet discovered he was the first vampire. Tell me, if he's a hybrid, why does he have bat wings, and a very bat like face? He's not a hybrid, that's why.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Markus Corvinus
Eh, no, no, and no. Viktor and Ameila undercut Markus' power, and lied to everyone to say he was the first true vampire. There's no possible way he'd become a hybrid from that little blood. All it did was awaken him, he already had the form seeing as he was the first true vampire. William, bitten by wolf, become a werewolf, Markus, bitten by bat, become a batlike creature.

Yes I'm full aware of that. That little blood? How much did Micheal require to become a hybrid? A bite from Lucian along with the blood from Selene was enough to transform Micheal into a Hybrid. No he didn't always have that form, if he had why didn't he display it prior? Also look at Kraven when he confronts Markus he doesn't immidiately recognise him instead he asks Markus? Also his color is very far from the other vampires and looks exactly like the Hybrid Micheals skin.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Markus Corvinus
You are aware that anyone can edit wikipedia, and I was the one who had to change it so that it said hybrid. He's not a hybrid, Selene only said so because she had not yet discovered he was the first vampire. Tell me, if he's a hybrid, why does he have bat wings, and a very bat like face? He's not a hybrid, that's why.

I am I just pointed out the doublestanard in what Robtard posted. Tell me if he isn't a Hybrid then why does he has the same color on his skin as Micheal, also it's very possible given the circumstances that transformed him into a vampire in the first place (the bat bite) evolved when it came into contact with the Lycan blood, think about it Micheal gets a complete package with apperances from both sides, Markus as the first vampire not the human descendent would instead trigger the more batlike DNA. You can perhaps tell me how he survived the blood of a Lycan after the scientist specificly in the first movie pointed out that even at cell level their different dna fought each other? That blood shouldn't have awakened him it should have killed him.

Dark-Jaxx
From what I heard, Michael had a more Lycan appearance whereas Markus had a more batlike appearance as hybrids, since Michael was originally a Lycan and Markus was originally a vampire.

Robtard
Originally posted by Utrigita
Funny because on Wiki the very same site you are using under the picture it says "Marcus in his full hybrid state."

You realize that "hybrid" can refer to more than just vampire/werewolf combo thing right? In that little picture with that "hybird" caption, they're referring to his human/bat hybrid form.

Seriously, the movies aren't that hard to follow.

Begs the question too, if he was somehow part werewolf(which he isn't), why would he grow wings and a batl-ike face from being a vamp/wwolf cross? Answer: He isn't part werewolf.

Robtard
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
From what I heard, Michael had a more Lycan appearance whereas Markus had a more batlike appearance as hybrids, since Michael was originally a Lycan and Markus was originally a vampire.

Dude, seriosuly now, the movies are not complex. Markus looks like a bat because he was the first vampire (bitten by bat); William looks like a wolf because he was the first werewold (bitten by a wolf).

Markus Corvinus
Skin color means absolute nothing, and I really would think people have a hard time following what they are watching. Whoever watched the movie would know that black is basically the color for werewolves (hence why when Michael was first changing into a hybrid, his skin became completely black first) and the color for vampires is blue. It's not hard to follow at all. Markus is not a hybrid, if he were, he wouldn't be so bat like. By the way, if he's a hybrid, why did he have to get out of the sunlight and why was he hung in a bat like possession whilst sleeping? Correct me if I'm wrong but Michael doesn't have to be afraid of light, and he doesn't sleep like a bat. I swear, if anyone thinks that Markus is a hybrid after I have compiled all of this, I'll be forced to think there's something wrong with your comprehension, sorry.

Robtard
Calm down.

Markus Corvinus
I'm perfectly calm...just baffled at how anyone thinks he's a hybrid is all.

Robtard
Deep breaths, we'll get through this.

Markus Corvinus
How funny.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Robtard
Deep breaths, we'll get through this. Hot.

Markus Corvinus
I'm in the midst of rewatching the fight between Michael & Viktor. Viktor truly kicked his ass.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Robtard
You realize that "hybrid" can refer to more than just vampire/werewolf combo thing right? In that little picture with that "hybird" caption, they're referring to his human/bat hybrid form.

Seriously, the movies aren't that hard to follow.

Begs the question too, if he was somehow part werewolf(which he isn't), why would he grow wings and a batl-ike face from being a vamp/wwolf cross? Answer: He isn't part werewolf.

You do realise that such a crossing is called a vampire not a Hybrid? In Underworld a Hybrid is a crossing between a Vampire and a Lycan.

From my point of view the case is fair straight forward so it is in my opinion, a Descendent of Alexander Corvenus gets Lycan blood in his mouth and survives, what happened to the other Descendent that happened to get his the two DNA's mixed?

He is part werewolf, let me explain why however his apperance is as it is. Micheal when assuming his Hybrid form is still portrayed as a human his entire body structure is human, it would only be logical to assume that when the first of the vampires gets a amount of blood from a Lycan then the bat gene will trigger. Maybe you would like to explain too me why Kraven is shocked when he sees Markus and why Markus prior didn't show that form? Maybe you can explain to me why Markus can go toe on toe with Micheal a Hybrid and defeat him, when it has been clearly stated that a Hybrid is stonger then both races, Micheal defeats William but gets defeated by Markus that by you isn't more then a the first vampire which should make no difference, he should have been owned.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Markus Corvinus
Skin color means absolute nothing, and I really would think people have a hard time following what they are watching. Whoever watched the movie would know that black is basically the color for werewolves (hence why when Michael was first changing into a hybrid, his skin became completely black first) and the color for vampires is blue. It's not hard to follow at all. Markus is not a hybrid, if he were, he wouldn't be so bat like. By the way, if he's a hybrid, why did he have to get out of the sunlight and why was he hung in a bat like possession whilst sleeping? Correct me if I'm wrong but Michael doesn't have to be afraid of light, and he doesn't sleep like a bat. I swear, if anyone thinks that Markus is a hybrid after I have compiled all of this, I'll be forced to think there's something wrong with your comprehension, sorry.

Even though his skin color is completely different from all the others vampires? Yes it appears that way. And you draw the conclusion that vampires are blue from what? He wasn't anything near that batlike in his very first apperance, what triggered that transformation? Certainly not age since the vampires doesn't evolve. Again as mentioned before it's entirely possible that the transformation triggered the more Batlike DNA in, what is your explanation for his sudden showing of this form he most certainly wasn't in it when we meet him the first time. Micheal was raised and born as a human, Markus for the more then 500 years been used to seeking shelter whenever the sun was appearing why should he change his habbits and take the chance that the sun would fry him?

Also none of you have answered my most vital question... If Markus wasn't transformed into a Hybrid when absorbing the blood of the Lycan then how did he survive that? The species hate each other...

I will be forced to think the same thing about yours from my point of view it's very clear that Markus is a hybrid else he would have stood no chance against the Hybrid that are more powerful then both races individually.

Utrigita
Am I correct Markus when I assume that none of us are going to agree with the other on this point?

Agree to disagree?

Oh and sorry for the last Comment I know that their is nothing wrong with you ability to comprehend, we just analyse Markus in two entirely different ways.

Mairuzu
Selene called Markus a hybrid herself

Human/Bat

Markus Corvinus
Markus was never human, he was the immortal son of Alexander Corvinus, so he's an immortal/vampire hybrid, if you want to look at it that way. I'll say it once more: Selene said Markus was a hybrid before learning the truth behind him being the first true vampire. That's why he has the form. And I'm just going to conclude that Utrigita didn't pay attention to what he was watching, hence the absurd belief that Markus is a hybrid. If he were, he wouldn't be so bat like, and if you can't see that he's like that due to being the first vampire, it's not due to you thinking your right, it's downright incompetence.

Robtard
Originally posted by Utrigita
You do realise that such a crossing is called a vampire not a Hybrid? In Underworld a Hybrid is a crossing between a Vampire and a Lycan.

From my point of view the case is fair straight forward so it is in my opinion, a Descendent of Alexander Corvenus gets Lycan blood in his mouth and survives, what happened to the other Descendent that happened to get his the two DNA's mixed?

He is part werewolf, let me explain why however his apperance is as it is. Micheal when assuming his Hybrid form is still portrayed as a human his entire body structure is human, it would only be logical to assume that when the first of the vampires gets a amount of blood from a Lycan then the bat gene will trigger. Maybe you would like to explain too me why Kraven is shocked when he sees Markus and why Markus prior didn't show that form? Maybe you can explain to me why Markus can go toe on toe with Micheal a Hybrid and defeat him, when it has been clearly stated that a Hybrid is stonger then both races, Micheal defeats William but gets defeated by Markus that by you isn't more then a the first vampire which should make no difference, he should have been owned.

You're being incredibly dense, that "hybrid" caption in the picture is in reference to Markus taking his half man/bat form, as he's able to look human or release just some of his bat features ar will.

Where is it stated anywhere in the film that drinking werewolf blood would make any vampire a werewolf-vamp hybrid? It doesn't. If that's all it took, then there would have been no need for Michael/the plot in the first film.

He's incredibly strong because he was the first vampire, just as William is incredibly strong because he was the first werewolf. As far as who defeats who, it's called plot-line and action, if Michael went in and just killed everyone, then there wouldn't much of a story.

As I also recall in the first film, Viktor, an elder vamp (not a hybrid nor the first of his race) put a decent beat-down on Michael.

Got it? Good.

Dark-Jaxx
Michael was needed because he just so happened to have the "Corvinus strand" or whatever it is called.

Which Markus has also.

Whoa.

Robtard
Michael was also not the original vamp or werewolf, he had a clean slate to work with.

Whoa X2.

Markus Corvinus
I hate how people forget Singe's explanation on the whole hybrid issue. Viktor brought up Markus, and Singe said they needed a pure source.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Robtard
You're being incredibly dense, that "hybrid" caption in the picture is in reference to Markus taking his half man/bat form, as he's able to look human or release just some of his bat features ar will.

Where is it stated anywhere in the film that drinking werewolf blood would make any vampire a werewolf-vamp hybrid? It doesn't. If that's all it took, then there would have been no need for Michael/the plot in the first film.

He's incredibly strong because he was the first vampire, just as William is incredibly strong because he was the first werewolf. As far as who defeats who, it's called plot-line and action, if Michael went in and just killed everyone, then there wouldn't much of a story.

As I also recall in the first film, Viktor, an elder vamp (not a hybrid nor the first of his race) put a decent beat-down on Michael.

Got it? Good.

That would be a matter of perspective concerning who is being dense. So you say that the batform is a form that he had all along with Black Eyes just a Micheal? If he was a Vampire his iris would still be visible. And btw



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(Underworld)#Hybrids

Have you even watched the movies and payed attention to other then the fight scenes? Why do you think that the Lycan where searching for the last remaining mortal descendent of Alexander Corvenus for their own twisted pleasure? No they did it because only a descendent of the Corvenus was capable of overcomming the feud between the two bloodlines, as the scientist says when he explains what they are trying to create, he clearly says that even on a cellular level the two species fight against each other, now take that knowlegde and try and put some werewolf blood into the mouth of any none Corvenus that is a vampire and think a bit about the result.

He is incrediably strong because he became a hybrid, not because he is the first vampire which as so wonderful clearly showed by Micheal was nothing against the power of a hybrid. No it wouldn't hence the reason they had to create a new being that could lay the smack down on Micheal and give him opposition, hence Markus was ressurrected as a Hybrid he even acknowlegde in the film that he himself isn't a vampire but something more.



Now why would Markus be talking about a new race if he himself wasn't a part of one seems highly irrationel.

Micheal who at that point wasn't in complete control of his own power and didn't understand his own strength and he fought a much more experienced warrior.

Got it? I would be surprised.

Utrigita
Just as a last note you can go to this site

http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/underworldevolution/site/home.html

and read a bit about Markus if you doesn't wasn't too allow me to quote.



Well atleast the bat/human = Hybrid got shot down...

Markus Corvinus
There was no new breed, he was the first vampire, and so he looks like a vampire. On the special features of the DVD they don't say anything at all about him being a hybrid or new breed.

Utrigita
It might be so but The Lycans resemble their creator William (looks like him) Now I may be wrong but I don't think I have seen any single vampire in any way resembling Markus in the form you claim that he had all along, I have however seen alot of vampires reflecting his apperance when he appeared the first time the human appearance.

Okay so tell me why the official website says otherwise, tell me why Markus in the movie itself doesn't refere to himself as a vampire as both Robtard and you claim that he is.

Markus Corvinus
Tell me why you'd think it's so easy for a new breed to be created with a few spills of blood. You lack serious logic.

Utrigita
Few spills of Blood, the average human body contain 5,6 liters of blood, seeing how, when Kraven and his gang entered the crypt, one could see that all the blood that had left singes body had flowned into Markus crypt we have no idea of how much blood he actually got but judging from the size of the pool of blood I would say more then a few spills.

Now you tell me, why a Vampire can go toe to toe and defeat with a Hybrid, a Hybrid that rips the head of William the strongest Lycan that is should be superior to any Vampire.

Robtard
Originally posted by Utrigita
It might be so but The Lycans resemble their creator William (looks like him) Now I may be wrong but I don't think I have seen any single vampire in any way resembling Markus in the form you claim that he had all along, I have however seen alot of vampires reflecting his apperance when he appeared the first time the human appearance.

Okay so tell me why the official website says otherwise, tell me why Markus in the movie itself doesn't refere to himself as a vampire as both Robtard and you claim that he is.

My, my, the Lycans look different than William too, the're almost hairless and blue/black-skinned, he looks like a bipedal wolf, since he was the first werewolf. Just as Markus looks or can look a lot different than the other vampires because he was the first vampire.

As far as strength/power goes, the vampires gain more strength as they age, it's the reason why Viktor was such a bad-ass, he was an elder. Remember when he easily broke a Lycan's neck with one hand in that shitty first film?

Tell me something, if Markus is a werewolf/vampire hybrid as you seem so intent on believing, why doesn't he have a single Lycan feature, but instead, looks entirely like a man-bat when transformed?

Markus Corvinus
Markus never defeated Markus. They fought on the back of the truck, and Michael beat the crap out of him. He was thrown off the truck, not defeated. The second time they "fought" Michael was caught off guard and not in hybrid form, which allowed Markus an easy win. First he's a hybrid, now he's a new breed. Please stop coming up with all these ridiculous theories.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Robtard
My, my, the Lycans look different than William too, the're almost hairless and blue/black-skinned, he looks like a bipedal wolf, since he was the first werewolf. Just as Markus looks or can look a lot different than the other vampires because he was the first vampire.

As far as strength/power goes, the vampires gain more strength as they age, it's the reason why Viktor was such a bad-ass, he was an elder. Remember when he easily broke a Lycan's neck with one hand in that shitty first film?

Tell me something, if Markus is a werewolf/vampire hybrid as you seem so intent on believing, why doesn't he have a single Lycan feature, but instead, looks entirely like a man-bat when transformed?

I find it rather funny that you choose to answer to my post directed towards Markus instead focusing on the post directed to you at the top...

You can still tell me similarities between William and his offspring care to point out the similarities between Markus Bat form and his off spring? Thought not because their is none when he is in that form

I do remember that yes.

I have already answered that question at least two times, and still you ask the same question and you are calling me dense? But I think Wikipedia which you used originally said it best.

Markus Corvinus
Dude, Selene herself said that the virus they transmute is deadly and most humans die within an hour of being bitten, so what makes you think his offspring would gain a bat form like him? Truly, you have nothing supporting your claim, not even Wikipedia.

Robtard
Originally posted by Utrigita
I find it rather funny that you choose to answer to my post directed towards Markus instead focusing on the post directed to you at the top...

You can still tell me similarities between William and his offspring care to point out the similarities between Markus Bat form and his off spring? Thought not because their is none when he is in that form

I do remember that yes.

I have already answered that question at least two times, and still you ask the same question and you are calling me dense? But I think Wikipedia which you used originally said it best.

Because it was nothing but more senseless ramblings.

Because the (non-original) vampires do not tranform, they have a single form? Whoa.

Yeah, that wiki article on Underworld Hybrids isn't cited, for al we know, some silly ass-clown wrote it and/or edited it.

I also have to ask, why did you switch from calling Markus a "hybrid", like Michael, to a "new breed" now? Granted, that makes more sense, why the oh-not-so-clever switch?

Utrigita
Originally posted by Markus Corvinus
Markus never defeated Markus. They fought on the back of the truck, and Michael beat the crap out of him. He was thrown off the truck, not defeated. The second time they "fought" Michael was caught off guard and not in hybrid form, which allowed Markus an easy win. First he's a hybrid, now he's a new breed. Please stop coming up with all these ridiculous theories.

No it would seem strange to battle oneself. As I recall it was Micheal that was thrown out of the truck by Markus and that was far from a owning in Micheals favor until that point they seemed equal, but one could notice that Markus almost with a grace threw of Micheal when he grabbed the necklas.

A Hybrid is a new breed and it isn't my words it's Markus own and the official sites, but ofcause you certainly know better then both..

Markus Corvinus
Originally posted by Robtard
Because it was nothing but more senseless ramblings.

Because the (non-original) vampires do not tranform, they have a single form. Whoa.

Yeah, that wiki artile on Underworld Hybrids isn't cited, fro al we know, some silly ass-clown wrote it.

I also have to ask, why did you switch from calling Markus a "hybrid" like Michael to a "new breed" now? Granted, that makes more sense, why the oh-not-so-clever switch?

Robtard, I've been on many forums in my 14 years, and if it's one thing I've noticed in debates is that if someone knows they're wrong, and don't want to admit it, they're going to switch up what they say to something else, until they can find ANOTHER lie. Markus is not a hybrid, or new breed, simply the first vampire. Any other belief than that is senseless rambling.

Robtard
Well, that "new breed" makes some sense, as Markus is of that first bloodline, so who knows what werewolf blood (infection) would do in these silly w-wolf/vamp movies.

Either way, I'm debating idiocy over a series of flims I didn't even really enjoy, so have fun.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Robtard
Because it was nothing but more senseless ramblings.

Because the vampires do not tranform, they have a single form? Whoa.

Yeah, that wiki artile on Underworld Hybrids isn't cited, fro al we know, some silly ass-clown wrote it.

I also have to ask, why did you switch from calling Markus a "hybrid" like Michael to a "new breed" now? Granted, that makes more sense, why the oh-not-so-clever switch?

Thats senseless rabble Robtard, provided proof both from the official movie site and the words from Markus in movie, if you call both senseless rabbling well that's up too you even though you have provided not a single shead of proof to prove your logic other then saying Bat/human = Hybrid.

They do transform, but certainly not into the form that Markus has, to make it short, the vampires retain their human form resembling their sire as we saw him first, we didn't see any other Vampire then Markus in the form that you claim he always had, we see the Lycans in the same form as their sire has. With fure etc.

For all we know some silly ass-clown wrote what you quoted.

I isn't making the switch I'm just quoting the Official site, if I was wrong on him being a Hybrid so be it, but that he is only a Vampire as both Markus and you claim is from my point of view, supported with the previous mentioned quotes, simply dead wrong.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Markus Corvinus
Robtard, I've been on many forums in my 14 years, and if it's one thing I've noticed in debates is that if someone knows they're wrong, and don't want to admit it, they're going to switch up what they say to something else, until they can find ANOTHER lie. Markus is not a hybrid, or new breed, simply the first vampire. Any other belief than that is senseless rambling.

So you are going directly against what the Official site and Markus himself states? Interesting...

Apparently the 14 years have thought you something else too...

Markus Corvinus
He was referring to it being a new race because he was going to awaken and unite with William. I guess next you're going to tell me at the end of the movie Selene is still a vampire.

Utrigita
And that race would be what to be exact? Not a Vampire, like you claim he is, not a Lycan as William is, but what Markus became and that sure as hell isn't a vampire, he directly in movie stats that he no longer is a vampire in that conversation with his father.

"A new race created in the image of their maker. Their new God. Me. "

No I isn't, that would be silly.

Markus Corvinus
What's silly is you debating Markus being a hybrid, then moving on to him being a new breed. Decide what made up theory you want to use and stick with it.

Utrigita
What is silly of you is sticking to the the assumption that he is Vampire even when proof is presented that proves the opposite, you then moves on and calls a person with another view on the subject a lie, idiot and mentally retarded, no offence but I thought that 14 years on the internet had learned you that, that isn't the way to behave on a forum, if you doesn't think you are getting through to person at the other end then you leave the discussion.

Now to drop the offensive tone and the debating blah...

A new breed cannot be a Hybrid? Micheal was a fusion between a Lycan and then a Vampire, for Markus it imo was the other way around first a Vampire and then a Lycan wouldn't that make like some kind of a subspecie within the Hybrids?

Markus Corvinus
I don't recall calling anyone an idiot or mentally retarded, so please stop trying to put words in my mouth, okay?

Dude, HE WAS THE FIRST VAMPIRE WHICH IS WHY HE HAS A BAT FORM, HE'S NOT A NEW BREED OR HYBRID!

Utrigita
Originally posted by Markus Corvinus
I'll be forced to think there's something wrong with your comprehension, sorry.

What do you call this then?

Okay Markus

Then why is the Official Site calling him a new breed, and why is he not refering to himself as a vampire any longer?

Two simple Questions.

Robtard
Thinking back on the movie, Utrigita is most likely correct. He's not a hybrid in the sense that Michael is, since he still has his vampire weaknesses, but it was implied that the were-blood did alter him, ie "new breed" would be correct.

Edit: Markus, your homework for tonight is to re-watch Underworld 2, get to it.

Utrigita
Then I would like to apoligise/withdraw/concern for/(on) my previous statement that he was a Hybrid in the same sense as Micheal.

Markus Corvinus
Originally posted by Robtard
Thinking back on the movie, Utrigita is most likely correct. He's not a hybrid in the sense that Michael is, since he still has his vampire weaknesses, but it was implied that the were-blood did alter him, ie "new breed" would be correct.

Edit: Markus, your homework for tonight is to re-watch Underworld 2, get to it.

If you say so.

I still doubt the were blood altered him. Think about it: Selene immediately knew it was him when he came to them...if he were altered and the form was new, then she wouldn't have immediately knew it was him.

Placidity
The problem with this battle is if you take the fights with Michael into account. But then again that's their only common enemy fight in which anyone can draw a comparison from.

But if you go but just feats alone, I do believe that Marcus comes out on top by far. Even though he got owned at the start by Michael, he does show other impressive feats that Viktor never did. I might also add later in the movie, Marcus shows that he CAN beat Michael when he "kills" him. Marcus also has a healing factor that is unlike any other. In the truck chase scene, I lost count of how many bullets he took to the face at point blank range, yet he seemed to only be affected momentarily.

Also, if you just go along with Vampire logic alone, Marcus is older than Viktor and therefore should be stronger. Plus he is also a hydrid, which I am led to believe makes him even stronger.

Markus Corvinus
Markus was affected by the vampire blood, but he's not a hybrid in the way Michael is. Whereas Michael is basically 50% vampire and 50% werewolf, Markus is around 85-90% vampire, and about 10-15% werewolf. But, one thing I must add on is that Markus caught Michael off guard when he "killed" him, and if that's any indication, Michael has the best healing factor out of any of the characters we've seen in the franchise yet. One would believe Markus is the stronger vampire because of his age, but it seems that he isn't, largely because Viktor had less problems when fighting Michael.

Just my $0.02.

six6six
Personally, I think that Viktor would win. Both Viktor & Markus fought Michael and from what I seen, Viktor did a better job. Even with Markus' amp, he had trouble with Michael. Viktor is a straight up Vampire and f'd Michael up. Therefore, IMO, Viktor FTW. Had Markus NOT have gotten amp'd by the Lycan blood, Viktor would easily dominate. He's just a bad mo fo. Also, Viktor did kind of punk Marcus in the beginning of UW2.

Star428
I'm sorry but anyone who thinks Viktor can beat Marcus needs a reality check. Marcus is the very first vampire and in fact he sired Viktor. Everyone knows that the older a vampire is the more powerful he or she is. Not to mention the fact that those vampires who sire others are never weaker than those they sire. I also don't remember Michael "owning" Marcus like some of you are claiming. I will watch Evolution probably in a few days to refresh my memory but I could've sworn that I remember no one besides a seriously upgraded Selene getting the better of Marcus. Marcus beats Viktor all day every day. PERIOD.


I also don't understand how anyone can think the first movie is "shitty". I friggin' loved it. Much more than the prequel "Rise of the Lycans". Evolution was ther best, imo.

The only thing that bothered me about these movies is how they broke so many of the traditional rules about vampires. Vampires are supposed to be undead. Which means their bodies are dead despite the fact that they live on. So, if their bodies are dead then how in the hell can they have sex? Let alone children like Viktor did?

In the first movie, Erica tells Selene "I seriously doubt Viktor would want you standing here freezing looking at his tomb." LOL. Again vampires have dead bodies so how in the hell could they be "freezing"?

Lastly, in the first movie, Erica looks in a mirror at her outfit and she has a reflection. LOL. Really? I mean, are these vampires or not? I'm surprised they actually had fangs and were killed by sunlight since so many other vampire rules were broken.

Despite all these minor details, I seriously loved all these movies. Some of my favorite vampire movies of all time... and I've seen quite a lot. I made this account mainly because I did a google search for marcus vs viktor and after seeing some of the ridiculous comments some people made in this thread I couldn't help replying.

Again, Marcus beats Viktor although it'd be a hell of a good fight in the end Marcus would win. I'm sure of it.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Star428
I'm sorry but anyone who thinks Viktor can beat Marcus needs a reality check. Marcus is the very first vampire and in fact he sired Viktor. Everyone knows that the older a vampire is the more powerful he or she is. Not to mention the fact that those vampires who sire others are never weaker than those they sire. I also don't remember Michael "owning" Marcus like some of you are claiming. I will watch Evolution probably in a few days to refresh my memory but I could've sworn that I remember no one besides a seriously upgraded Selene getting the better of Marcus. Marcus beats Viktor all day every day. PERIOD.


I also don't understand how anyone can think the first movie is "shitty". I friggin' loved it. Much more than the prequel "Rise of the Lycans". Evolution was ther best, imo.

The only thing that bothered me about these movies is how they broke so many of the traditional rules about vampires. Vampires are supposed to be undead. Which means their bodies are dead despite the fact that they live on. So, if their bodies are dead then how in the hell can they have sex? Let alone children like Viktor did?

In the first movie, Erica tells Selene "I seriously doubt Viktor would want you standing here freezing looking at his tomb." LOL. Again vampires have dead bodies so how in the hell could they be "freezing"?

Lastly, in the first movie, Erica looks in a mirror at her outfit and she has a reflection. LOL. Really? I mean, are these vampires or not? I'm surprised they actually had fangs and were killed by sunlight since so many other vampire rules were broken.

Despite all these minor details, I seriously loved all these movies. Some of my favorite vampire movies of all time... and I've seen quite a lot. I made this account mainly because I did a google search for marcus vs viktor and after seeing some of the ridiculous comments some people made in this thread I couldn't help replying.

Again, Marcus beats Viktor although it'd be a hell of a good fight in the end Marcus would win. I'm sure of it.

Because it specifically states in the movies that the state of Vampirism and Lycanthropy are not magical in nature in-universe, but rather it is a genetic anomaly. The Sunlight mechanic could be explained much like that in the Blade series, IE: a severe reaction to UV Radiation. it makes the resultant creature a little more scientifically plausible rather than purely mythological like the classic Vampire portrayal.

As for this matchup, I agree, Marcus would win without too much effort. The only reason Marcus allowed Viktor to get away with as much as he did, was because Vik had William as a hostage, notice that before that, Marcus was under the impression that they had a deal, and immediately after, when Marcus seemed to be contemplating ripping Vik's head off for the betrayal, the only thing that stopped him was the fact that his brother was all chained up and at Vik's mercy.

TheVaultDweller
Viktor would die horribly. Noob hybrid Michael gave him a good fight. Markus would annihilate him.

Star428
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Because it specifically states in the movies that the state of Vampirism and Lycanthropy are not magical in nature in-universe, but rather it is a genetic anomaly. The Sunlight mechanic could be explained much like that in the Blade series, IE: a severe reaction to UV Radiation. it makes the resultant creature a little more scientifically plausible rather than purely mythological like the classic Vampire portrayal.

As for this matchup, I agree, Marcus would win without too much effort. The only reason Marcus allowed Viktor to get away with as much as he did, was because Vik had William as a hostage, notice that before that, Marcus was under the impression that they had a deal, and immediately after, when Marcus seemed to be contemplating ripping Vik's head off for the betrayal, the only thing that stopped him was the fact that his brother was all chained up and at Vik's mercy.


So, the vampires in the movies aren't "undead" then? They're not magical in nature but they still don't age and can live forever(immortal)? Also, have you seen the latest movie? I forgot what it's called but it happened after Evolution and it's the fourth movie as far as I know unless they've came out with another one since. I was kinda disappointed with it as it just doesn't measure up to the other ones. Anyway, in that fourth one there was a scene with Selene where she didn't show up on a video camera. I don't understand how that's possible if they're not magical in nature. How can it possibly be scientifically explained?

Good point about Viktor having William as a hostage. Also, Viktor had the loyalty of his army to back him up. In a one-on-one confrontation Marcus would be the clear winner but I don't think it would be so easy as you say.

KingD19
They aren't undead. They're simply immortal as the Corvinus Strain is a virus tied to Alexander's blood that made him far more powerful than either of his sons(Markus and William). And while those 2 were originally Immortal themselves, they got bit by a wolf and a bat and became the first werewolf and vampire.

The 4th movie is Underworld: Awakening. And she probably didn't show up because she's f*cking fast as shit. Because her daughter is a Vampire/Immortal/Lycan Hybrid and shows up on camera all the time.

As for the army, they were loyal to Viktor as well as Markus, but they knew who the big boss was. They wouldn't go against him no matter what Viktor said.

And a hybrid Markus, the original vampire with thousands of years of combat under his belt and full mastery of his powers would wreck Viktor.

The only reason Viktor survived his initial fight with Michael was because he'd just transformed for the first time and seemed feral and relied only on his actual superior stats instead of skill..

Star428
Originally posted by KingD19
They aren't undead. They're simply immortal as the Corvinus Strain is a virus tied to Alexander's blood that made him far more powerful than either of his sons(Markus and William). And while those 2 were originally Immortal themselves, they got bit by a wolf and a bat and became the first werewolf and vampire.

The 4th movie is Underworld: Awakening. And she probably didn't show up because she's f*cking fast as shit. Because her daughter is a Vampire/Immortal/Lycan Hybrid and shows up on camera all the time.

As for the army, they were loyal to Viktor as well as Markus, but they knew who the big boss was. They wouldn't go against him no matter what Viktor said.

In Evolution, at beginning of movie during the battle scene with Lycans (including William, himself) the army was following the orders of Viktor not Marcus. Even though Marcus was there also and was upset at what they were doing to William (his brother) it seemed clear to me that they (the army) thought Viktor was the "big boss" even though we all know he wasn't. If you remember, in that same movie, Tanis (or Tannis?) even explains to Selene how everyone was fooled into thinking Viktor was the original vampire. Not Marcus. I even remember Selene saying in the original movie that Viktor was "the oldest and strongest" of us. So, she was fooled too along with everyone else except for Marcus himself and Viktor it seems.

KingD19
They followed Viktor when it came to William because everybody knew Markus would take it easy on his brother, and taking it easy meant he'd kill tons of vamps.

And I'm pretty sure Viktor only got to that point because of Markus' hibernation.

Estacado
Markus is older there for more powerful.
Simple as that.
Plus he has his bat form.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by KingD19
They followed Viktor when it came to William because everybody knew Markus would take it easy on his brother, and taking it easy meant he'd kill tons of vamps.

And I'm pretty sure Viktor only got to that point because of Markus' hibernation.

No, the film makes it pretty clear that the original Death Dealers who pursued William were vampires converted from Viktor's human army. (Which, according to Tanis, was one of the reasons Markus turned Viktor to begin with.) They turned their crossbows on Markus because their ultimate allegiance was to Viktor, not Markus. In fact, per Tanis, the only reason Markus wasn't killed outright by Viktor at that point or any other was because Viktor operated under the belief that Markus's death would bring about the extinction of every vampire he'd ever turned, including Viktor.

Star has it right here. Markus is indeed older and more powerful and would win this fight, but Viktor was politically and militarily supreme.

seymourwal
markus owns. he is naturally more powerful being the first vamp. becoming a vamp/dominant hybrid is spite to be honest.

quanchi112
Viktor wins.

zeel
markus was beat by a amped selene who was older then michael and amped with corvinus blood if I remember right. Only reason selen had issues with victor in the first movies was due to the lack of a corvinus amp. after she drank from corvinus she took out markus. even markus was impressed with her strength he even mentioned this while in the waterway under the castle.

Selene(with corvinus blood)>markus>victor=>micheal


I however think with time , experience and age micheal w
ould surpass them all.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor wins.

Wrong. Stay out of this thread.

Star428
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Wrong. Stay out of this thread.


+1.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Wrong. Stay out of this thread. Viktor is smarter and would win this fight. It is close but Viktor wins. Tactically on another level than his *****. You are my *****.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor is smarter and would win this fight. It is close but Viktor wins. Tactically on another level than his *****.

Bullshit.

Besides, Marcus is stronger, faster, and the more accomplished fighter. Selene bested Vik in a single strike, before her Alexander amp, and was fought to a standstill by Michael for ages. Marcus on the otherhand bested Michael relatively easily and in a much shorter time, and fought much more closely with an amped Selene.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are my *****.

Not dealing with your bullshit here Quan, f**k off.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Bullshit.

Besides, Marcus is stronger, faster, and the more accomplished fighter. Selene bested Vik in a single strike, before her Alexander amp, and was fought to a standstill by Michael for ages. Marcus on the otherhand bested Michael relatively easily and in a much shorter time, and fought much more closely with an amped Selene.



Not dealing with your bullshit here Quan, f**k off. Due to him being turned around and not aware of the attack. The same swipe would have killed Marcus as well.

Viktor also bested Michael due to being tactically better. He would kill Marcus as well. There's a reason he uses him as his ***** for that long.

Concession accepted, girl.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Due to him being turned around and not aware of the attack. The same swipe would have killed Marcus as well.

#1: Prove it, #2: No he wasn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor also bested Michael due to being tactically better. He would kill Marcus as well. There's a reason he uses him as his ***** for that long.

Based on? Markus has more tactical options, is far stronger, faster, and has flight. Victor was not more tactically inclined in any way. And the only reason Marcus ever bowed to Vik, was because Vik had William as a hostage, and a hoard of brainwashed Death Dealers, not because Vik was stronger.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Concession accepted, girl.

Like I said, not rising to your deliberate trolling bait. Reported and f**k off.

juggerman
Is this really in question?

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by juggerman
Is this really in question?

Apparently, one particular dumbass thinks it is.

The Manga Guru
Markus

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
#1: Prove it, #2: No he wasn't.



Based on? Markus has more tactical options, is far stronger, faster, and has flight. Victor was not more tactically inclined in any way. And the only reason Marcus ever bowed to Vik, was because Vik had William as a hostage, and a hoard of brainwashed Death Dealers, not because Vik was stronger.



Like I said, not rising to your deliberate trolling bait. Reported and f**k off. Viktor wasn't even facing her. Quit trolling. Wrong.

Markus does have more options but he isn't as intelligent or as tactical as Viktor. Viktor was smarter and more clever than stupid Markus. This is the same reason Viktor wins despite the physical advantages Markus has.


laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor wasn't even facing her. Quit trolling. Wrong.

When she struck him? yes he was. Watch the movie.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Markus does have more options but he isn't as intelligent or as tactical as Viktor. Viktor was smarter and more clever than stupid Markus. This is the same reason Viktor wins despite the physical advantages Markus has.

Yeah, that's why, Marcus in less than 48 hours was able to undo centuries of Vik's work. Tactical genius that dude. Hell, I have no idea what you constitute as tactical acumen here, Vik got bought undone despite all his games. AND, here is a nail to the coffin - Even if Vik was more tactically sound than Marcus, it doesn't mean nothing in a one-on-one fight against someone who is considerably more powerful.

Star428
Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor is smarter and would win this fight. It is close but Viktor wins. Tactically on another level than his *****. You are my *****.


Viktor is smarter, my @$$. Marcus is simply better in every category. Including intelligence and cunning. Get over it.

Star428
The idiot is right about one thing though. Selene got a surprise attack in on Viktor while he was engaged in battle with Michael. There's no way in Hell Selene would've beaten Viktor without getting the jump on him like that. Wouldn't even have been a contest. That still doesn't change the fact that Marcus would whip Viktor though.Only reason Selene was able to go toe-to-toe with Marcus at the end of movie was because she had drank the blood of Alexander Corvinus.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Star428
The idiot is right about one thing though. Selene got a surprise attack in on Viktor while he was engaged in battle with Michael. There's no way in Hell Selene would've beaten Viktor without getting the jump on him like that. Wouldn't even have been a contest. That still doesn't change the fact that Marcus would whip Viktor though. Only reason Selene was able to go toe-to-toe with Marcus at the end of movie was because she had drank the blood of Alexander Corvinus.

Well, the fool said it was from behind. However, Vik turned when he heard Selene pick up his sword, so it may have been quick, but it wasn't from behind.

That said, Marcus has considerably more durability feats Countless rounds of gunfire, including a close range shotgun blast, being ripped up by the truck crushing him into a rock face at high speeds, and he was punking Michael throughout their fights even from the onset, something Vik does not have. Viktor was barely breaking even with Michael early on, but Marcus was dominating him from the get go in both their fights.

Star428
Something else I have always wondered about. In the first movie, I was surprised at how Amelia was so easily assassinated on the train since she was an elder. It's like she didn't even put up a fight. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but I don't think they showed her fighting at all did they? I mean it's not like she was alone. She had the rest of the council members with her even though Kraven's men were just standing by and letting it happen.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Star428
Something else I have always wondered about. In the first movie, I was surprised at how Amelia was so easily assassinated on the train since she was an elder. It's like she didn't even put up a fight. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but I don't think they showed her fighting at all did they? I mean it's not like she was alone. She had the rest of the council members with her even though Kraven's men were just standing by and letting it happen.

IIR, the only fighting Amelia ever did on-screen, was in ROTL

juggerman
Originally posted by Star428
Something else I have always wondered about. In the first movie, I was surprised at how Amelia was so easily assassinated on the train since she was an elder. It's like she didn't even put up a fight. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but I don't think they showed her fighting at all did they? I mean it's not like she was alone. She had the rest of the council members with her even though Kraven's men were just standing by and letting it happen.

It was a surprise attack and she was probably overwhelmed by numbers. I highly doubt any Lycan could have taken her singlehandedly.

Or Kevin Grevioux is just a sexist. Either/or.

The_Tempest
The ease with which quan is able to successfully troll you all is fascinating. no expression



No.



NoKinda, but not really.

This is pretty disingenuous phrasing, since it suggests Selene conquered Viktor through superior power and/or skill, when neither is the case. Viktor was too busy throttling the shit out of Michael and fell prey to a sneak attack.

We all know that Viktor would curbstomp pre-amp!Selene utterly and effortlessly in a fair fight.



no expression

Your second sentence is diametrically opposed to the first.



Yes.











It's a helluva lot easier to indiscriminately destroy shit than meticulously build shit. Marcus soloing the covens and helping drive his race inexorably towards extinction doesn't remotely prove the point you're trying to make here.



Agreed.



erm

No. Viktor became the supreme Elder precisely because of his intellect and cunning. Markus isn't an idiot by any means, but Viktor quite simply outplayed him.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by The_Tempest
NoKinda, but not really.

This is pretty disingenuous phrasing, since it suggests Selene conquered Viktor through superior power and/or skill, when neither is the case. Viktor was too busy throttling the shit out of Michael and fell prey to a sneak attack.

We all know that Viktor would curbstomp pre-amp!Selene utterly and effortlessly in a fair fight.

No, it was to paraphrase Marcus's durability in comparison to Viktor, plus, it was a comparative showing between them when using Michael as the centerpeice, since Michael has fought both. See, Michael, despite having only just transformed for the very first time, was keeping Vik off his stride for a decent chunk of time, where as both encounters with Marcus, Michael ended up losing.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your second sentence is diametrically opposed to the first.

Ah, not necessarily. You see, Marcus had the last laugh, when he made sure Viktor believed that if he died, all Vampires die with him.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's a helluva lot easier to indiscriminately destroy shit than meticulously build shit. Marcus soloing the covens and helping drive his race inexorably towards extinction doesn't remotely prove the point you're trying to make here.

Ah, but uncovering all of Vik's secrets, and even those of Alexander in the process? That does.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No. Viktor became the supreme Elder precisely because of his intellect and cunning. Markus isn't an idiot by any means, but Viktor quite simply outplayed him.

Not necessarily. One thing I will give Vik, is that he was more experienced in both politics, and military warfare. Being a Warlord in a time of strife tends to do that. That doesn't necessarily make him more intelligent, just more experienced and learned. However, Marcus is by far the better fighter, which is what this debate revolves around.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, it was to paraphrase Marcus's durability in comparison to Viktor, plus, it was a comparative showing between them when using Michael as the centerpeice, since Michael has fought both. See, Michael, despite having only just transformed for the very first time, was keeping Vik off his stride for a decent chunk of time, where as both encounters with Marcus, Michael ended up losing.

But that's not the point with which I take issue. Your phrasing indicated that pre-amp!Selene > Viktor, when we all know that that's not true. Viktor would shitstomp Selene.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ah, not necessarily. You see, Marcus had the last laugh, when he made sure Viktor believed that if he died, all Vampires die with him.

ermm

Not really. Viktor kept Markus from William for centuries and, despite the deception, marginalized Markus enough to assume ultimate authority over the covens. The deception saved Markus from certain death, yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that Viktor ran roughshod over him, kidnapped and imprisoned his brother, and ruled the vampires in perpetuity.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ah, but uncovering all of Vik's secrets, and even those of Alexander in the process? That does.

haermm

No, it doesn't. Tanis was the information broker; Markus simply used his powers to extract information from him via his blood. That has less to do with tactical acumen and more to do with special powers conferred upon Markus because of his Elder status (powers Viktor shared).

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Not necessarily. One thing I will give Vik, is that he was more experienced in both politics, and military warfare. Being a Warlord in a time of strife tends to do that. That doesn't necessarily make him more intelligent, just more experienced and learned. However, Marcus is by far the better fighter, which is what this debate revolves around.

And I agree that Markus would win this fight, but you're underselling Viktor as much as Quan is underselling Markus and it's pretty transparent.

seymourwal
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
but Marcus was dominating him from the get go in both their fights.


while I agree with most of what ur saying, marcus didn't dominate micheal like u claimed. the first fight was fairly even. after just watching, its even more clear. marcus charged micheal, they hit the back of the truck. they grapple back and forth. marcus lands, micheal lands, grapple. marcus shoves micheal against the side. micheal does the same. they are even until marcus bfrs him. far from the "domination" u implied. the second encounter wasn't even really a fight. caught him off guard first, then impaled him before he could transform.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by The_Tempest
But that's not the point with which I take issue. Your phrasing indicated that pre-amp!Selene > Viktor, when we all know that that's not true. Viktor would shitstomp Selene.

That's you misinterpreting my phrasing then. I never said Vik would lose a direct fight with a pre amped Selene, I said that Selene's strike didn't come from behind, considering Vik turned around to face Selene when she grabbed his sword. She was fast enough to get a slice through his head before he realised what was going on, but my original point of contention was that Selene didn't slice through Viktor from behind as what Quan had stated.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Not really. Viktor kept Markus from William for centuries and, despite the deception, marginalized Markus enough to assume ultimate authority over the covens. The deception saved Markus from certain death, yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that Viktor ran roughshod over him, kidnapped and imprisoned his brother, and ruled the vampires in perpetuity.

The ultimate point is, if Marcus wasn't held back by the risk of losing William, he could easily have dismantled Viktor despite all the machinations Vik tried. And ultimately, Viktor could not make the ultimate move against Marcus because of the carefully crafted illusion that if he died, Vik and all other Vampires would go down with him.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, it doesn't. Tanis was the information broker; Markus simply used his powers to extract information from him via his blood. That has less to do with tactical acumen and more to do with special powers conferred upon Markus because of his Elder status (powers Viktor shared).

Actually, it was Victors one mistake, it was Singe's blood and the information that provided that proved to be Marcus's opening gambit. He wasn't even aware that Viktor was dead, until he got to Kraven. He knew just from awakening on Singe's memories that his time to move had come. He wasn't just sitting in idle servitude all that time, he had to wait until he could get the information on William's whereabouts before he could move.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And I agree that Markus would win this fight, but you're underselling Viktor as much as Quan is underselling Markus and it's pretty transparent.

Oh, I am calling that bullshit. I never undersold Viktor, not to anywhere near the degree Quan undersold Marcus anyway.

Originally posted by seymourwal
while I agree with most of what ur saying, marcus didn't dominate micheal like u claimed. the first fight was fairly even. after just watching, its even more clear. marcus charged micheal, they hit the back of the truck. they grapple back and forth. marcus lands, micheal lands, grapple. marcus shoves micheal against the side. micheal does the same. they are even until marcus bfrs him. far from the "domination" u implied. the second encounter wasn't even really a fight. caught him off guard first, then impaled him before he could transform.

My point is, he bested Michael in a far shorter time, and when Michael was more experienced with his transformations as well.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
That's you misinterpreting my phrasing then. I never said Vik would lose a direct fight with a pre amped Selene, I said that Selene's strike didn't come from behind, considering Vik turned around to face Selene when she grabbed his sword. She was fast enough to get a slice through his head before he realised what was going on, but my original point of contention was that Selene didn't slice through Viktor from behind as what Quan had stated.

ermm



^ This was your original post and I'd say the context is pretty clear here. You weren't comparing Viktor's durability to Markus's, you were comparing (disingenuously) the quality of their feats. Another poster called you out on it as well: Viktor would curbstomp Selene utterly and there's no point in pretending otherwise, even if Quan is trolling you.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The ultimate point is, if Marcus wasn't held back by the risk of losing William, he could easily have dismantled Viktor despite all the machinations Vik tried. And ultimately, Viktor could not make the ultimate move against Marcus because of the carefully crafted illusion that if he died, Vik and all other Vampires would go down with him.

Do you not see the inherent double standard in your remarks? William was Viktor's leverage against Markus; deception was Markus's leverage against Viktor. Evolution makes it pretty clear that the only reason Markus didn't meet a grisly end early in Viktor's reign was, as you put it, a "carefully crafted illusion." Markus doesn't win imaginary bonus points against Viktor in the realm of cunning because he used lies whereas Viktor used fraternal bonds.

At the end of the day, Viktor kept William imprisoned in order to maintain the existence of his slaves and he managed to usurp Markus and become the dominant vampire authority. Quan's wrong when he says Markus is an idiot (he's not an idiot), but Viktor certainly demonstrated greater cunning.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Actually, it was Victors one mistake, it was Singe's blood and the information that provided that proved to be Marcus's opening gambit. He wasn't even aware that Viktor was dead, until he got to Kraven. He knew just from awakening on Singe's memories that his time to move had come. He wasn't just sitting in idle servitude all that time, he had to wait until he could get the information on William's whereabouts before he could move.

But there again, that has zilch to do with cunning and everything to do with magic.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh, I am calling that bullshit. I never undersold Viktor, not to anywhere near the degree Quan undersold Marcus anyway.

Dude, you've been doing it the entire conversation. Anyway, to recap: Viktor would curbstomp Selene with impunity, Viktor is demonstrably the more capable strategist, and Viktor will still lose this fight.

Utrigita
Originally posted by juggerman
It was a surprise attack and she was probably overwhelmed by numbers. I highly doubt any Lycan could have taken her singlehandedly.

Or Kevin Grevioux is just a sexist. Either/or.

There is also the possibility but this is just me speculating, since I haven't seen the last two filmes, that she having been turned by Viktor was weaker and not able to match a lycan quite as well as he did.

Star428
LOL. Viktor was never the "supreme elder/vampire". That has always been Marcus regardless of what Viktor's army was deceived into believing. Also, you have not really given real proof of Viktor's supposedly greater cunning.

KingD19
It's biologically impossible for Viktor to have been the Supreme Elder. As Markus was the original and would always be more powerful no matter what. On top of that, Markus' sleep is what allowed Viktor to continue to consolidate power. That's the only thing that kept him safe.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Star428
LOL. Viktor was never the "supreme elder/vampire". That has always been Marcus regardless of what Viktor's army was deceived into believing.

Cool story. Viktor was the dominant Elder; no one said he was the toughest.

Originally posted by Star428
Also, you have not really given real proof of Viktor's supposedly greater cunning.

Viktor hijacked Markus's position, imprisoned his brother, rewrote history, and ruled the covens until his death at Selene's hands. He outplayed Markus, plain and simple. Whether or not you choose to accept it is another matter entirely.

Now, feel free to prove your claim that Markus is Viktor's superior in all things.



Of course. Between that fact and context, it should be pretty obvious that I'm not discussing biology, but authority and political power. At the end of the day, Viktor was the dominant Elder.



When was this? Pretty sure Viktor "consolidated power" right in front of Markus, at the point of sword and crossbow. Markus recognized his weaker position, deferring to Viktor (however sardonically) as "my lord" in Evolution when Viktor told him "you will learn your place."

The incontrovertible truth is that Viktor played Markus, usurped his position, and ruled the covens. How the two stack up against one another in an IQ test is unknown, but Quan is right: Viktor demonstrated more cunning and tactical acumen than Markus. Now, is Quan right that Markus is an idiot? Hell no.

But for whatever reason, some of you are pretty obviously underselling Viktor. Whether or not that owes to some sort of epic grudge against Quan and everything Quan loves is unknown, but it doesn't make it any less wrong.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Star428
Viktor is smarter, my @$$. Marcus is simply better in every category. Including intelligence and cunning. Get over it. You need to watch the second film. Your ignorance disgusts my superior intellect. I want to slap you.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
When she struck him? yes he was. Watch the movie.



Yeah, that's why, Marcus in less than 48 hours was able to undo centuries of Vik's work. Tactical genius that dude. Hell, I have no idea what you constitute as tactical acumen here, Vik got bought undone despite all his games. AND, here is a nail to the coffin - Even if Vik was more tactically sound than Marcus, it doesn't mean nothing in a one-on-one fight against someone who is considerably more powerful. He had Michael in a choke hold and was turned around when she leapt and by the time he turned to face her it was too late. He wasn't directly facing her when she leapt so I am once again correct.

Viktor wasn't alive nor were his forces the same without his leadership and the losses they suffered in the previous film. Bad guys die. Despite Markus and his advantages he ended up dead as well. The difference was Viktor wasn't soundly defeated in a fair fight. Viktor defeated someone stronger and faster in a fight in the first underworld. The fight I cite is the exact proof to the claim here. Markus was Viktor's ***** for centuries just like you're my ***** today.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The ease with which quan is able to successfully troll you all is fascinating. no expression



No.



NoKinda, but not really.

This is pretty disingenuous phrasing, since it suggests Selene conquered Viktor through superior power and/or skill, when neither is the case. Viktor was too busy throttling the shit out of Michael and fell prey to a sneak attack.

We all know that Viktor would curbstomp pre-amp!Selene utterly and effortlessly in a fair fight.



no expression

Your second sentence is diametrically opposed to the first.



Yes.











It's a helluva lot easier to indiscriminately destroy shit than meticulously build shit. Marcus soloing the covens and helping drive his race inexorably towards extinction doesn't remotely prove the point you're trying to make here.



Agreed.



erm

No. Viktor became the supreme Elder precisely because of his intellect and cunning. Markus isn't an idiot by any means, but Viktor quite simply outplayed him. Viktor does win.

Star428
Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor does win.


LOL. Keep telling yourself that dude. Viktor gets his @$$ kicked and I'm done with this thread since the fact that it even exists shows ignorance on the OP's part. This fight is not even a contest and I'm done wasting my time arguing with ignorant people like you.

Star428
It's obvious to me that you're trolling because no one could possibly be that stupid. Despite all the obvious evidence that Marcus would pawn Viktor you keep arguing that shit doesn't stink (LOL).

Epicurus
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, it was to paraphrase Marcus's durability in comparison to Viktor, plus, it was a comparative showing between them when using Michael as the centerpeice, since Michael has fought both. See, Michael, despite having only just transformed for the very first time, was keeping Vik off his stride for a decent chunk of time, where as both encounters with Marcus, Michael ended up losing.
Don't forget that Michael was unfed against Viktor as well, which wasn't the case against Marcus.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Star428
LOL. Keep telling yourself that dude. Viktor gets his @$$ kicked and I'm done with this thread since the fact that it even exists shows ignorance on the OP's part. This fight is not even a contest and I'm done wasting my time arguing with ignorant people like you. So you concede. You really just submit to me.

Viktor wins just how he defeated Michael. I couldn't care less who cries about. Markus dying yet again. He was always outplayed when he was around Viktor and only got out of line after Viktor wasn't around anymore. Viktor dominates him yet again.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Star428
It's obvious to me that you're trolling because no one could possibly be that stupid. Despite all the obvious evidence that Marcus would pawn Viktor you keep arguing that shit doesn't stink (LOL). My opinion is based off evidence whereas yours seemed centered around your fanboyism which is starring Markus.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor wins just how he defeated Michael. I couldn't care less who cries about. Markus dying yet again. He was always outplayed when he was around Viktor and only got out of line after Viktor wasn't around anymore. Viktor dominates him yet again.

Except that Michael was at his weakest at that point, and Vik barely won against him, while Marcus defeated Michael on 2 separate occasions solo and with much greater ease.

Tactical acumen only applies when Vik held all but the last card anyway. He doesn't have any hostages, he doesn't have an army of brain-jacked Death Dealers to back him up, and he has no leverage here. Marcus is the better combatant here, therefore he wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My opinion is based off evidence whereas yours seemed centered around your fanboyism which is starring Markus.

The only evidence you used was one that does not apply to 1-on-1 combat.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Except that Michael was at his weakest at that point, and Vik barely won against him, while Marcus defeated Michael on 2 separate occasions solo and with much greater ease.

Tactical acumen only applies when Vik held all but the last card anyway. He doesn't have any hostages, he doesn't have an army of brain-jacked Death Dealers to back him up, and he has no leverage here. Marcus is the better combatant here, therefore he wins.



The only evidence you used was one that does not apply to 1-on-1 combat. Prove it. I never said Markus couldn't defeat him I said Viktor defeated a faster, stronger opponent based off superior fighting tactics just like he wins here.

Viktor won the fight one on one. Selene is the only reason he survived. So it wasn't one on one only from either side. Viktor did fight him one on one and did get the better of him in one on one combat. Your ignorance is appalling and you running away from the assfisting Gideon pulled on you shows your true colors.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove it. I never said Markus couldn't defeat him I said Viktor defeated a faster, stronger opponent based off superior fighting tactics just like he wins here.

Except that wasn't a case of superior tactics, only experience, and Michael has never fought before.

And how long did it take Vik to wittle down Michael, who at the time was absolutely brand new to not only his immortal body, but fighting in general? How long did it take Marcus to accomplish the same thing against a fed, experienced and more confident Michael on 2 separate occasions later? Think on these facts for a while.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor won the fight one on one. Selene is the only reason he survived. So it wasn't one on one only from either side. Viktor did fight him one on one and did get the better of him in one on one combat. Your ignorance is appalling and you running away from the assfisting Gideon pulled on you shows your true colors.

You misrepresenting my words not withstanding, I am comparing how long it took Viktor to overcome Michael, who at that point was at his weakest and most inexperienced, and comparing it to the two fights Marcus had with Michael, in which Marcus won his fights far faster and more decisively, AND Michael was more experienced, and had been fed.

You are out of excuses.

Who?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Except that wasn't a case of superior tactics, only experience, and Michael has never fought before.

And how long did it take Vik to wittle down Michael, who at the time was absolutely brand new to not only his immortal body, but fighting in general? How long did it take Marcus to accomplish the same thing against a fed, experienced and more confident Michael on 2 separate occasions later? Think on these facts for a while.



You misrepresenting my words not withstanding, I am comparing how long it took Viktor to overcome Michael, who at that point was at his weakest and most inexperienced, and comparing it to the two fights Marcus had with Michael, in which Marcus won his fights far faster and more decisively, AND Michael was more experienced, and had been fed.

You are out of excuses.

Who? It was a combination of both. He took the jab like attacks so he could get close to him.

Michael showed off speed and power instantly. Quit making excuses. Viktor overcame these attributes and won the confrontation.

You are misinterpreting my case. Markus has advantages over Michael that Viktor didn't have over Michael but won all the same just like he wins against Markus. He will absorb the damage and fight in close proximity to ultimately prove the Viktor.

You are the one called on misinterpreting and arguing against logic itself by the other poster, Gideon. Your ignorance isn't something I am unfamiliar with nor do I find this shocking.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
It was a combination of both. He took the jab like attacks so he could get close to him.

He took minor scratches, that's nothing compared to what Marcus tanked, nor is it what Marcus will be delivering to Viktor.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Michael showed off speed and power instantly. Quit making excuses. Viktor overcame these attributes and won the confrontation.

Which is still less than the fight with Marcus. You claim tactics, yes, tactics and experience against Michael who was, for all intents and purposes a newborn.

Michael is not Marcus, Marcus has far greater demonstrated feats and capabilities, and the only things that kept Vik in the game after betraying Marcus, he does not have for this fight. What? is he going to Talk-No-Jutsu Marcus to death? laughing

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are misinterpreting my case. Markus has advantages over Michael that Viktor didn't have over Michael but won all the same just like he wins against Markus. He will absorb the damage and fight in close proximity to ultimately prove the Viktor.

Can you explain to me how this is not A>B>C logic and should not be disregarded for one, and two, how can you garner a victory by saying defeating a lesser opponent equates to defeating a greater opponent? Because it does not.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are the one called on misinterpreting and arguing against logic itself by the other poster, Gideon. Your ignorance isn't something I am unfamiliar with nor do I find this shocking.

Considering Tempest was not arguing based on an interpretation of the movie, but rather how he interpreted my words, this is not something you can use, plus, he has sided with us in the overall debate. he agrees that Marcus would defeat Viktor. You are hiding behind the perceived opinion of someone else to mask your own deficient argument.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
He took minor scratches, that's nothing compared to what Marcus tanked, nor is it what Marcus will be delivering to Viktor.



Which is still less than the fight with Marcus. You claim tactics, yes, tactics and experience against Michael who was, for all intents and purposes a newborn.

Michael is not Marcus, Marcus has far greater demonstrated feats and capabilities, and the only things that kept Vik in the game after betraying Marcus, he does not have for this fight. What? is he going to Talk-No-Jutsu Marcus to death? laughing



Can you explain to me how this is not A>B>C logic and should not be disregarded for one, and two, how can you garner a victory by saying defeating a lesser opponent equates to defeating a greater opponent? Because it does not.



Considering Tempest was not arguing based on an interpretation of the movie, but rather how he interpreted my words, this is not something you can use, plus, he has sided with us in the overall debate. he agrees that Marcus would defeat Viktor. You are hiding behind the perceived opinion of someone else to mask your own deficient argument. They were not minor scratches. Look up the meaning to both words you troll. Markus will inflict damage but not enough to stop Viktor who is too battle savvy to lose.

Michael still used the same tactics he used against Viktor. They weren't successful against Viktor due to his skill and battle savvy.

He will kill him via his blades. There is a reason Viktor always kept Markus as his personal ***** all these years. Markus even addressed him as lord. That is a clear sign of submission after Viktor had his brother attacked before his very submissive eyes.



Michael displayed superior speed than Markus. If anything this points to an even easier win for Viktor since he doesn't have to worry about a much faster opponent such as Michael.

No, he called bullshit on you misinterpreting words and trolling in general. We tire of your childish tactics. You aren't an honest debater and often seek refuge after a butt raping. Just stay gone. You aren't an effective debater in the least bit and often cry when someone disagrees with you.


Viktor wins.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
They were not minor scratches. Look up the meaning to both words you troll. Markus will inflict damage but not enough to stop Viktor who is too battle savvy to lose.

Hah!, when Vik is shown decapitating someone without the use of his sword, call me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Michael still used the same tactics he used against Viktor. They weren't successful against Viktor due to his skill and battle savvy.

And they were even less successful against Marcus because of his strength, speed, flight capabilities and skill and battle tactics.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He will kill him via his blades. There is a reason Viktor always kept Markus as his personal ***** all these years. Markus even addressed him as lord. That is a clear sign of submission after Viktor had his brother attacked before his very submissive eyes.

Yeah, and that reason is that Vik held a hostage, and had an army of brain washed Death Dealers at his command.

Read above, you troll.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Michael displayed superior speed than Markus. If anything this points to an even easier win for Viktor since he doesn't have to worry about a much faster opponent such as Michael.

Are you kidding me or what? Marcus not only dealt with Michael twice, but in their first battle, he did so while flying and keeping pace with a moving vehicle. Viktor would have been trounced in that position.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he called bullshit on you misinterpreting words and trolling in general. We tire of your childish tactics. You aren't an honest debater and often seek refuge after a butt raping. Just stay gone. You aren't an effective debater in the least bit and often cry when someone disagrees with you.

I don't care about people disagreeing with me, it is the attitude, and the shitty reasons displayed by you that get reactions, and you are nothing if not a hypocritical, dishonest prick. Read his posts, he agreed with my overall stance. AND, You downplayed Marcus without any reasons whatsoever, just to get a reaction. That makes you the troll. Happy Dance

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor wins.

Making claims without evidence as usual. Marcus wins. Too strong, too fast, too powerful, and naturally a better fighter.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Hah!, when Vik is shown decapitating someone without the use of his sword, call me.



And they were even less successful against Marcus because of his strength, speed, flight capabilities and skill and battle tactics.



Yeah, and that reason is that Vik held a hostage, and had an army of brain washed Death Dealers at his command.

Read above, you troll.



Are you kidding me or what? Marcus not only dealt with Michael twice, but in their first battle, he did so while flying and keeping pace with a moving vehicle. Viktor would have been trounced in that position.



I don't care about people disagreeing with me, it is the attitude, and the shitty reasons displayed by you that get reactions, and you are nothing if not a hypocritical, dishonest prick. Read his posts, he agreed with my overall stance. AND, You downplayed Marcus without any reasons whatsoever, just to get a reaction. That makes you the troll. Happy Dance



Making claims without evidence as usual. Marcus wins. Too strong, too fast, too powerful, and naturally a better fighter. So you don't believe a superhumanly strong vampire can decapitate someone with a sword ? You're so pathetic it is kind of amusing. He's shown the ability to crush an old Lycan with his bare hands yet you claim he cannot decpiatate someone with a sword. laughing out loud

False. Markus was sloppy and was evaded throughout the film and even spared by his own father. He will be sloppy in combat like he was in the entire film. Viktor would kill him within close proximity just like he did against the faster and stronger Michael. Sooner or later he has to get close and that is when Viktor will kill him.


Viktor was more intelligent than Markus. That much is evident when he betrayed him and ruled over him for centuries. He hurt his brother William and kept him as a prisoner and the coward known as Markus didn't do anything about it until after Viktor was gone. If Markus was as powerful as you claim he should have done something but he didn't.



Quit spelling Markus' name incorrectly. You're an idiot who doesn't even know how to properly spell his own fave. Again, Markus never exhibited speed like Michael did in the entire film so Viktor is better off here. One less disadvantage.
I didn't say anything about the situation I said about his overall speed, troll.


You can't even spell Markus' name correctly which shows you're just a troll. An ignorant troll.


I backed my claims. Viktor kills him in close combat. He fights similarly like against Michael except without the speed disadvantage Michael had over him. I cite evidence whereas you have not.


I sport a Viktor Underworld Sig and you sport an underworld sig though hilariously misspelling Markus' name at every turn.

Utrigita
Originally posted by The_Tempest
And I agree that Markus would win this fight

quanchi112
Originally posted by Utrigita
Originally posted by Utrigita
Thanks.

As for the battle itself, I am tempted to give it to Viktor that is a warrior Markus isn't, that alone can make a difference as also could be seen when Micheal and Viktor battled each other, Viktors skill was superior to Micheals gaining him the win, but I'm not sure, I'm quiet sure that Markus is no slug in H2H combat either the problem is that we only saw him in h2h with Micheal that is beneath Viktor... but... Viktor does win.

At least Gideon can spell Markus' name correctly which is more than I can say for the dumb fanboy who thinks it is Marcus.

Silent Master
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I agree that Markus would win this fight,

thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by Silent Master
thumb up Based on ?

draxx_tOfU
Markus may have been the first vampire and all that jazz but Viktor was clearly portrayed as the superior between the two, both in political authority and against Michael.

Viktor wins.

quanchi112
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
Markus may have been the first vampire and all that jazz but Viktor was clearly portrayed as the superior between the two, both in political authority and against Michael.

Viktor wins. thumb up


Take that you fanboys.

laughing out loud

dadudemon
I have a few points that have probably already been stated in one form or another:


1. Michael was untrained and unseasoned as a fighter when he fought Viktor. Clearly, his newness to being a hybrid was his weakness. But he was clearly Viktor's superior in every way. Viktor didn't win that fight: Michael lost it.

2. Michael gets a bit more time to get used to his transformation by the time he fights Markus. He not only gets more time to get used to his transformation, he gets to feed and he ages a bit (allowing him to get stronger). He got utterly schooled by Markus and impaled on a metal pole.

So let's review:

Michael barely loses to Viktor when he is starved, a new born, and inexperienced with his new powers. Barely loses the fight to Viktor.

Michael is fed, older, and more experienced when he fights Markus. Gets his ass utterly handed to him by Markus.

Conclusion: Markus would utterly destroy Viktor in a fight.



It should be obvious, why: Markus is a hybrid and, therefore, stronger than Viktor. Markus would have been stronger, before, because he was the elder vampire. HOWEVER, I believe that pre-hybrid Markus would lose to Viktor. no expression

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