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As a non-American, I appreciate that some may think that I am attacking their country and thus feel protective of it. It is not intended to be an attack. Honest.
So, ahem...
While American politicians often seem to refer to America as being the greatest force for good in the world, and it doubtless has many strengths (no doubt, despite the right wing scum in power, ordinary Americans are free when compared to their counterparts in many other countries, for example).
However, some also see America as being full of corruption, and interfering when its influence is neither needed nor wanted.
My question to you is thus:
America- force for good or ill?
I don't mean the American people in general, I mean the political and military force that is America- the government, the army, etc. Is America the land of the free, or is George W Bush merely a dictator over the "free" world?

The United States is corrupt, but then again, so are all nations.

The US is just way more corrupt.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Power corrupts.

Money = power.

The US has become a pretty shitty country..started off as a great concept then ruined, like most other good things.

If I had the opportunity to move I would love to go someplace else for a while.

Me too and I'm seriously thinking about it!

Americans are among the finest/diverse group of people you will ever meet. You can go to downtown Harlem, backwoods Alabama or anywhere in between and meet some of the best folks who will treat you like a member of their own family.

America's government, however, is not representative of it's people. I wouldn't say it's a force of good or ill either one. It simply does whatever it deems benificial to itself regardless of the outcome to other nations. If it's going to help america to step into Darfour......we'll do it. If it's not going to benefit America to step in....we won't, and haven't.

Truer words were never said!

America makes me think of a self-important and self-righteous country that is destroying itself through its own greed and pride. Of course, I don't know all the details, but it seems to me that America's been upsetting a lot of other countries for no reason other than wealth. They're also destroying their own economy, which could lead to an economic collapse. Also, they have an enormous debt, the biggest chunk of which is owed to the most anti-American countries in the world.

Any American who wants to leave, just come up to Canada. We're not as much a joke as the media says we are. We're still in the G7, you know.

What would make the most sense would be to point out that the American government is comprised, democrat and republican alike, of people..."citizens"...that have little to no interest in the people they are supposed to actually represent, most often. Most of these people are interested in keeping America "great" as a means to further their personal stake in that nation being "great". I honestly believe in Mr. Obama being a force for change. But I also honestly fear that getting that power given to them by the Joe Six Packs and the purported Intelligentsia of this country will open their eyes to the corruption that is possible for them; to the greed that would tempt anyone in their position, save a very few exceptional instances. We often hear this tagline of experience. But neither of them knows what it's like to be president. Neither of them have; none of the four people on the tickets. But the American people have to make their descision based on the qualities the candidates actually bring to the situation. It isn't how they voted or what colour they are or who they did or didn't screw.

China is often touted, as I've said and seen before in other threads, as a nation of 1 billion atheists. But the position of the Chinese government does not accurately represent the minds and lives of all of those 1 billion people.

In this country we have a candidate that is bright enough to realize that he isn't just himself, but a man who represents the idea that someone that isn't an old white dude or a man can do that job. Women have proven to be just as corruptable or self concerned as any man; Palin or Clinton or Ghandi or Thatcher. But at this moment, in this country, under these circumstances, the performance of the American president makes a difference to the possiblitity of anyone that follows him. In my opinion, we're lucky it's this man at this moment.

I look forawrd to the insults to my intelligence or integrity or party line consideration as a result of that statement.

I've always wonder....why is America always the main topic? I mean is the UK really that boring? Do they have ANYTHING important for the rest of the world? What about Canada?..Oh, Canada....nvm. How about Australia or New Zealand or one of those lands under....how come they're not as popular?

Well, who knows...America is the hot dish. Everyone knows about their politics, lifestyle, music, blah, blah, blah....It's always America (i.e. the U.S.)


Maybe we are too important for the rest of you.

I'm evil btw....


Go figure..

I forgot about Japan...

...Japan is the best...better food, video games, porn, game shows.

Japan>Your country.

Oh, your a good boy. You don't watch porn. LOL Don't ruin my image of you.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

What is absolute power?

Being the president isn't exactly akin to be allpowerful.

I never mentioned any one name.

Originally posted by lord xyz
The United States is corrupt, but then again, so are all nations.

The US is just way more corrupt.

You need to travel more and/or pull your head out of your ass. Just in the Americas, Argentina and Mexico are levels above (government) corruption than the U.S.

I'm only inclined to speak about a country if I've seen a lot of it. Having travelled around a lot of the East side of America, I had very few positive experiences. However, I intend to travel to the West soon and see what I make of that.

I think a lot of the negative experiences stemmed from me trying my best to associate with people my own age there. The fact seems to be, given the different legal and social climate that we grow up in - that teenagers from the U.S and the U.K are at very different levels of maturity.

As for the politics of it: people from the U.K are massively quick to raise the topic of Iraq, without pausing to think that we're in Iraq as well. I consider the U.K to be nearly, if not as bad in terms of silly knee jerk politics.

Phrases alluding the the US as the "greatest force for good in the world" are empty rhetoric that politicians have to use if they want to get the masses on their side. The moment one side says "America is more awesome than everyone else" the other has no choice but to respond in kind or lose the support of the idiot masses that vote based on who they want to have a beer with.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I forgot about Japan...

...Japan is the best...better food, video games, porn, game shows.

Japan>Your country.

Japanese porn is only better after American hackers get rid of the censoring.

Well it is true that the United States is the most richest, most powerful, most technologically advanced, nation on the planet, with the greatest military ever, that's ever existed out of any nation that's ever been created or that's existed in human history on this planet. It's 10X's grander and greater than the Rome Empire was, at it's peak.

There's no denying that. The kicker is, is that America's, i think, the planets' youngest nation. What's even remarkable is that (grampa) Great Britain was the premier world power until the 1890's until the (infant) United States demandingly took over in the very early 20th century.

It's a great country. We're not all perfect here in the US, and some of it's people can be ignorant no matter the creed, but most are good for the most part, and always willing to help, but there's no where else i'd rather be.

I do believe that our gov't, it's premier, it's leaders and their money men are the biggest contributors of stress on this country, as we can see now.

Some of the significant reasons, to me, are: party politics, too many unnecessary levels of bureaucracy, greed, inconsideration, and a lack of vision, and some god-da*med balls.

Saying that most the population are good is quite a claim. Also, I always wonder when people say there's no where else they'd rather be, have you been anywhere else?

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Saying that most the population are good is quite a claim. Also, I always wonder when people say there's no where else they'd rather be, have you been anywhere else?

Jamaica
Kenya (none of the tourist packages)
Landed in Heathrow Airport twice
Mexico (tourist trip)
Canada
All across the US

I have issues, so I wouldn't really want to move somewhere other than where I live unless it was really really awesome.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Jamaica
Kenya (none of the tourist packages)
Landed in Heathrow Airport twice
Mexico (tourist trip)
Canada
All across the US

I have issues, so I wouldn't really want to move somewhere other than where I live unless it was really really awesome.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't rather live in any of those places either, perhaps Mexico. I most definitely wouldn't want to live in Heathrow airport.

Was in Heathrow recently, for about 9 ****ing hours due to delays. Food was absolutely atrocious.

Originally posted by Robtard
You need to travel more and/or pull your head out of your ass. Just in the Americas, Argentina and Mexico are levels above (government) corruption than the U.S. Don't really know much about Mexico n Argentina.

Except that Mexicans apparently steal jobs and Argentineans bombed our islands, so we made them even more impoverished.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Don't really know much about Mexico n Argentina.

Except that Mexicans apparently steal jobs and Argentineans bombed our islands, so we made them even more impoverished.

They both have overtly corrupt governments.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Don't really know much about Mexico n Argentina.

Except that Mexicans apparently steal jobs and Argentineans bombed our islands, so we made them even more impoverished.

You've proven yourself to be massively geographically ignorant time and time again, you probably ought to just not talk about stuff you have no idea about.

Originally posted by Robtard
They both have overtly corrupt governments. I never knew that.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
You've proven yourself to be massively geographically ignorant time and time again, you probably ought to just not talk about stuff you have no idea about. Why did you take that seriously?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Why did you take that seriously?

It was the original statement I took seriously, not the pathetic attempt to cover up your ignorance with a joke.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I never knew that.


Now you do. You're welcome.

There's a UK fellow I heard about named Hugo, I think you should sleep over at his house, if just for a night.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Yeah, I probably wouldn't rather live in any of those places either, perhaps Mexico. I most definitely wouldn't want to live in Heathrow airport. Why not? Some major shopping going on there.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
It was the original statement I took seriously, not the pathetic attempt to cover up your ignorance with a joke. The ignorant statement that the US is the most corrupt nation? Doesn't seem so farfetched.



You're probably just showing off.

Originally posted by lord xyz
The ignorant statement that the US is the most corrupt nation? Doesn't seem so farfetched.



You're probably just showing off.

Do you have any idea how corrupt some African nations are? Also a lot of South American countries? Clearly you don't have any idea at all.

Showing off about what?

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Do you have any idea how corrupt some African nations are? Also a lot of South American countries? Clearly you don't have any idea at all.

Showing off about what? What must be noted is that the US is at the top of this corruption.

Economic hitmen are sent to countries like the ones in South America and the middle east, and thus, the corruption was rooted in America.

Iran, Iraq, Ecuador and Panama are a few notable ones.

America the country is now a myth. It has ceased to exist over the last 3 decades. It is now a collection of corporations, a merchantilist oligarichy, if you will. The government does only what wall street tells it to do. We go to war to benefit certain economic interests. Americans and foreigners who feel Barak Obama will "change" that will be sadly disappointed. His higher taxes and increased government spending will only shift money and power to different corporations.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Saying that most of the population are good is quite a claim. Also, I always wonder when people say there's no where else they'd rather be, have you been anywhere else?

I said I think they are, just as they likely are in any given nation.

But, I have been to other countries. I think you make an excellent point, though. Most Americans have never been anywhere else. Many Americans have never even been across state lines or seen an ocean. When confronted with that point, they usually respond with the line about not wanting to go anywhere else because everywhere else is not America and we all know that means those places are evil, communists, fer'ners, who eat with their fingers, rape babies, elected Hitler, don't deep fry all their food and don't believe in baby Jesus as god. Obviously, their response only solidifies the point.

I think I'd really like to live in Bath. I've only been there twice and it was just for the day both times, but I really love the feel of the place. It feels ancient and modern at the same time.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Saying that most the population are good is quite a claim. Also, I always wonder when people say there's no where else they'd rather be, have you been anywhere else?

Yes, I have.

I’ve been to Italy, Spain (sis’s wedding), Portugal with a former girlfriend, the Dominican Republic, numerous times (I’ve also lived there almost a year when I was 10 and 90% of my family’s from there also. Puerto Rico, (grams live there), and Tokyo, Japan (for two semesters) -loved tokyo-

And I’ve personally’ve/physically seen their good and bad parts. The U.S.’s good and bad parts are better, let’s just say. I have noticed that people don’t seem as uptight as they do in the US but the opportunities for success here are unmatched, no matter your lot.

But maybe it’s because I’m an American and they act nice because of it. Or not. Or because apparently I come from a place that some people in the D.R. think has no poor people with cities are paved in gold, lol.

The most inviting country was Japan, I thought. They kinda seemed aloof to me but mostly they don’t mind you being around. They’re very tolerant/humble.. Like you found hardly any confrontational aggression in their dispositions individually and especially in their interactions or verbal confrontations with others and myself.

I thought Spain had the worse hospitality of ‘em all. They’re a very arrogant and snooty people (some are, at least). -The dudes meaning or especially- the ladies from all parts were/are always cool, cooler than the dudes were, at least. But I don’t know if it’s because they’re the mother country and feel they don’t have to equally look at another Hispanic country or it’s people in the same light they do each other, or what. But I found ‘em very sarcastic/condescending, but in a playfully way that still bordered on the offensive..But the chicks there are #1 in the looks dept. followed by PR., imo.

So I’ve been around a little bit. I want to visit egypt one day but I’ll say it again, and as Dorothy would say, “there’s no place like home..”

I’ve had good experiences over seas but I’ve had even better and more memorable ones here @ home in the U.S.

Now, i am a capitalist so i'm going to say that, even with our current and temporary condition, i prefer our economy to that any of other country. As far as our gov't. I believe that ours is indeed the greatest and has the most potential. The politicians are what gets to me. Like in the back of my mind i see us pulling out of the crisis we're in now with ease and in no time. Give our burden to any of the countries i've been to and they'd of sunk down deep and hard, a long time ago.

So U.S.A. all the way, man.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
The kicker is, is that America's, i think, the planets' youngest nation.

Israel, Pakistan, India, Turkey, almost all of Eastern Europe...

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Saying that most the population are good is quite a claim. Also, I always wonder when people say there's no where else they'd rather be, have you been anywhere else?

I've been to other countires, and I'd still take the US.

Originally posted by lord xyz
What must be noted is that the US is at the top of this corruption.


More than Mexico? More than Colombia?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I've been to other countires, and I'd still take the US.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who would. My point was what Devil King picked up on, how little the majority of the U.S has travelled.


Originally posted by Quiero Mota
More than Mexico? More than Colombia?

More than Sudan, Chad, Democratic Republic Congo, Guinea, Cambodia, Myanmar, Haiti etc.?

I second that, I have been to a few other countries, and can honestly say that I was glad to be back in the USA.

Twice in particular, when I got back from Japan and when I got back from Mexico, I am not talking a Mexican resort either I mean REAL Mexico.

The list of countries that I would not even consider going to is quite long, and yes, Mexico is on that list now.

I believe both of our political parties and our entire government is generally corrupt, however, I will live here before anywhere else on earth including Canada and the U.K.

If at some point more of our constitution were to be ignored/bypassed/re-written, I reserve the option to change my mind.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Israel, Pakistan, India, Turkey, almost all of Eastern Europe...



I've been to other countires, and I'd still take the US.



More than Mexico? More than Colombia? Don't know.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Israel, Pakistan, India, Turkey, almost all of Eastern Europe...

yup you're right. israel's like 50 or somethin'..

i couldn't really remember which is why i wrote, "i think".

well we're the most sucessful young nation on the palnet.

Well I´ve met loads of US folk, they all seem intelligent decent sort of people so the government definitely doesn´t represent the people, especially Bush who is neither of the above mentioned.

I think the government isn´t the problem, its the system used for producing the government.

You have to be ruthless, rich liar to be able to get anywhere in politics in any country in the world.

What worries me is that election campaigns in the US (and other countries) are funded by big companies who will obviously want something back for their input, therefore influencing policies.

Maybe there´s some genius in the back streets of New York who has the potential to bring about a Utopia with his ideas, but will never get anywhere in politics due to lack of funding & because he´ll be stepping on certian peoples feet who will get rid of him/her.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
You have to be ruthless, rich liar to be able to get anywhere in politics in any country in the world.

Tell 'em what they want, not what they need.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
What worries me is that election campaigns in the US (and other countries) are funded by big companies who will obviously want something back for their input, therefore influencing policies

Obama's campaign is run on public donations, IIRC.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Tell 'em what they want, not what they need.



Obama's campaign is run on public donations, IIRC.

Yeah, public funding..like George Soros.