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No sabers only force attacks, who wins? No amulet for Kun either. Only force attacks.

Originally posted by Kotor3
No sabers only force attacks, who wins? No amulet for Kun either. Only force attacks.

No Amulet? Exar Kun goes down.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No Amulet? Exar Kun goes down.

This is not to say Yoda cannot win but what does Yoda use to take Kun down? Please do not say because he is simply stronger in the force because we have no way of measuring by how much.

when does a jedi kill someone using only the force? that's pretty much considered going to the darkside isn't it? what is one example of a jedi killing someone with the force only? If a jedi is TK'ing a sith all over the place, he is still supposed to stop before he kills the sith, somewhere after disabling him.
Yoda is more powerful in the force. This fight is rigged.

Originally posted by Kotor3
This is not to say Yoda cannot win but what does Yoda use to take Kun down? Please do not say because he is simply stronger in the force because we have no way of measuring by how much.

Yoda is stronger in the force. What do you mean what does he use to take him down? Hell I don't know, force push, TK, whatever the hell else he has that was enough to stalemate Sidious. Bottom line is Kun goes down.

Question, who has greater feats with the force Yoda or Kun?

Originally posted by Kotor3
Question, who has greater feats with the force Yoda or Kun?

It depends on the context. Yoda almost certainly has higher knowledge of the Force, and much more time spent using it. His higher levels of Tk are impressive too, plus he could absorb Sith Lightning with his hands which is difficult to do.

Offensively, Yoda doesn't behave like a Sith, so he does have a disadvantage there. He'll be consistently having to defend himself or try to overpower Kun's raw power all over the place, and can only hope to KO him by either knocking him into a wall or dropping something on him.

The light side offers some advantages. Yoda has no issues using his TK to kill when the situation demands, or letting the enemy exhaust themselves, or throwing their attacks back at them, and I seriously doubt he'd have much of an issue using Malacia or Morichro to disable or even kill an enemy.

Or snap a sneck with the force, or crush someone against the wall...look what Dooku did to Obi-wan...Jedi have been using light side powers to overpower and defeat dangerous enemies since the Order's inception.

There are plenty of ways Yoda can KO Kun. And given his incredible power in the light side, he'll be capable of defending himself.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
It depends on the context. Yoda almost certainly has higher knowledge of the Force, and much more time spent using it. His higher levels of Tk are impressive too, plus he could absorb Sith Lightning with his hands which is difficult to do.

Offensively, Yoda doesn't behave like a Sith, so he does have a disadvantage there. He'll be consistently having to defend himself or try to overpower Kun's raw power all over the place, and can only hope to KO him by either knocking him into a wall or dropping something on him.

In the Yoda and Dooku fight, Yoda pretty much took everything that Dooku threw at him and sent it back. Though it did not seem easy for Yoda to do so. Now if Yoda had try to drop something on Dooku's head I believe he would have succeeded after sometime.

I guess one question would be does Kun have more powerful force attacks than Dooku?

Can Yoda defend against all of them or throw them back at Kun?

If Yoda decides to drop something on Kun's head can he resist or escape the assault?

As you can tell I do not know any of the answers.

Lightsnake I like your response!

Yoda's almost certainly stronger in the Force than Kun. Kun does display an incredibly vast array of techniques, but then again - Yoda knows numerous Force techniques himself.

Without the amulets Kun loses at least 7 out of 10 times. It's probably close, though.

Well Yoda resisted all of Dooku's force attacks with ease. He slammed Sidious across the room with a powerful force push. He even absorbed a lightning attack from Sidious, who was probably the most skilled user of the technique. So i don't see how he would have much trouble from Kun.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well Yoda resisted all of Dooku's force attacks with ease.The AotC novel says that he deflected the lightning "far from easily."

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well Yoda resisted all of Dooku's force attacks with ease. He slammed Sidious across the room with a powerful force push. He even absorbed a lightning attack from Sidious, who was probably the most skilled user of the technique. So i don't see how he would have much trouble from Kun.

How did he resist Dooku's attacks with ease? Surely did not seem that way in the movie. It definitely took effort for Yoda to stop Dooku's TK powers and force lighting. It was not like Yoda just wave his hand and stop all of Dooku's attacks. My point is does Kun has more power techniques or not? Can Kun defeat Dooku in a force fight? If so he would definitely cause Yoda problems and might have a chance at defeating him.

I do not see how someone who as a spirit was able to cause Luke issues is so inferior to Yoda when it comes to the force. I do not see Dooku being able to do any of the things that Kun did to Jedi masters of his time or as spirit to someone as powerful as Luke.

Originally posted by Faunus
The AotC novel says that he deflected the lightning "far from easily."

LOE Dooku says Yoda does it with ease.

Originally posted by Kotor3
How did he resist Dooku's attacks with ease? Surely did not seem that way in the movie. It definitely took effort for Yoda to stop Dooku's TK powers and force lighting. It was not like Yoda just wave his hand and stop all of Dooku's attacks. My point is does Kun has more power techniques or not? Can Kun defeat Dooku in a force fight? If so he would definitely cause Yoda problems and might have a chance at defeating him.

I do not see how someone who as a spirit was able to cause Luke issues is so inferior to Yoda when it comes to the force. I do not see Dooku being able to do any of the things that Kun did to Jedi masters of his time or as spirit to someone as powerful as Luke.

Well if you go by how it looked in the movies, Yoda seems to do it with ease. Every TK attack Dooku threw at Yoda seems to merely shrugg it off. The only thing Yoda seemed to have a hard time with, was keeping the heavy pillar from falling on Anakin and Kenobi.

I don't see how Yoda, fighting the most powerful sith in history, would be matched by Kun.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well if you go by how it looked in the movies, Yoda seems to do it with ease. Every TK attack Dooku threw at Yoda seems to merely shrugg it off. The only thing Yoda seemed to have a hard time with, was keeping the heavy pillar from falling on Anakin and Kenobi.

I don't see how Yoda, fighting the most powerful sith in history, would be matched by Kun.

I am not going to argue about how we view the movie scene because our opinions definitely differ there. However I will mention this, if Yoda was so much superior to Dooku in force abilities and block his attacks with ease, why didn't he simply freeze Dooku from moving as he did Ventress in the new star wars clone series?

Since Yoda has superior TK abilities he could have taken Dooku's sabers away from him as he did to Ventress in the new clone war series, why didn't he since he wanted to capture Dooku? The logical conclusion he could not. It was not so easy for Yoda and would not be against Kun either.

You seem to be basing your win on the simple fact the Yoda is mostly liking more powerful, but again by how much? Whereas Mace would be a match for Yoda with a saber why wouldn't Kun with the force? Unless you are also saying Kun is inferior to Dooku with it comes to the force.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I am not going to argue about how we view the movie scene because our opinions definitely differ there. However I will mention this, if Yoda was so much superior to Dooku in force abilities and block his attacks with ease, why didn't he simply freeze Dooku from moving as he did Ventress in the new star wars clone series?

Since Yoda has superior TK abilities he could have taken Dooku's sabers away from him as he did to Ventress in the new clone war series, why didn't he since he wanted to capture Dooku? The logical conclusion he could not. It was not so easy for Yoda and would not be against Kun either.

You seem to be basing your win on the simple fact the Yoda is mostly liking more powerful, but again by how much? Whereas Mace would be a match for Yoda with a saber why wouldn't Kun with the force? Unless you are also saying Kun is inferior to Dooku with it comes to the force.

if you wanna go off that logic why didnt anakin actually move instead of stand there in AOTC when Dooku cut his right arm off? He clearly has time.

or why did Darth Maul just watch obi-wan jump over him instead of cut him in half when he was coming up from the pit?

and Yoda isnt "most likly" more powerful than kun. He IS more powerful than Kun the ROTS novelization clearly states that yoda (at that point in time) was the most powerful Jedi the sith had ever known or seen or something like that.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
if you wanna go off that logic why didnt anakin actually move instead of stand there in AOTC when Dooku cut his right arm off? He clearly has time.

or why did Darth Maul just watch obi-wan jump over him instead of cut him in half when he was coming up from the pit?

First thing your examples are not good ones. I do not know what time you are referring that Anakin had. Dooku clearly caught him with a move the same way Anakin did to him in ROTS.

Maul could have killed Obi Wan but was clearly tauting him. His arrogance got him killed as was caught off guard and clearly did not expect Obi Wan to be able execute the force technique that he did. How does that apply to my example?

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182

and Yoda isnt "most likly" more powerful than kun. He IS more powerful than Kun the ROTS novelization clearly states that yoda (at that point in time) was the most powerful Jedi the sith had ever known or seen or something like that.

Also you statement about Yoda being the most powerful Jedi base upon that statement is up for debate and has been debated plenty of times already on this forum. Yoda being able to battle against Sidious and to even make Sidious run initially is a much better example.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
LOE Dooku says Yoda does it with ease. Dooku mentions Yoda's "handling" of the Sith lightning; the omniscient narrator of the AotC novel says it was "far from easy."

Even if Dooku directly stated that Yoda easily deflected his assault, omnisicient narrator > him.

The most powerful for the darkness had ever known. That automatically makes him more powerful than Kun, who was, y'know, not at all the Dark Lord of the Sith. And even if he were, everybody knows that Sith Lords are foes of the darkness. Logic ftw.

Originally posted by Kotor3
First thing your examples are not good ones. I do not know what time you are referring that Anakin had. Dooku clearly caught him with a move the same way Anakin did to him in ROTS.

Watch AOTC if you will see an odd gap where Anakin just stops and "lets" Dooku cut off his arm.



clearly taunting him? If you are referring to him slashing his lightsaber down at obi while he is hanging on for his life then yes you are right, but there are 2-3 seconds when obi-wan is i dunno RIGHT in front of Maul and he just stands there and watches as obi wan comes up flips over hims then looks at him right before obi-wan cuts him in half, where Maul could have easily killed obi-wan but he doesn't.







the ROTS novelization says

"Finally, he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just-didn't-have it."

he was the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known. I don't understand how you don't see that Yoda is quite a bit above Kun(without his amulets) in force power.



Yes, from what the novelization says I would deffinantly say that yoda is more powerful than Kun.

and with all due respect since when was Kun NOT a sith?

Originally posted by Kotor3
First thing your examples are not good ones. I do not know what time you are referring that Anakin had. Dooku clearly caught him with a move the same way Anakin did to him in ROTS.

Maul could have killed Obi Wan but was clearly tauting him. His arrogance got him killed as was caught off guard and clearly did not expect Obi Wan to be able execute the force technique that he did. How does that apply to my example?

He was using PIS. You are attempting not to. Its like using Hyperbolic geometry to discuss a spherical solid. (comparing apples and oranges).

Originally posted by Kotor3

Also you statement about Yoda being the most powerful Jedi base upon that statement is up for debate and has been debated plenty of times already on this forum. Yoda being able to battle against Sidious and to even make Sidious run initially is a much better example.

I think that he left out a step.
"Yoda is the most powerful foe the Darkness has ever known.
Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord.
Sidious > Kun . Given
Sidious = Yoda . Proven by duel
Yoda > Kun . Substitution

This is obviously faulty logic, but it was a good try. Feel free to correct me if I misrepresented your argument. I disapprove of strawman too.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
he was the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known. I don't understand how you don't see that Yoda is quite a bit above Kun(without his amulets) in force power.Apparently, asking you to coming to your own sound logical conclusions is too much to ask.

Good = foe of the darkness.
Bad = the darkness.
Jedi = Good.
Sith = Bad.
Yoda = Jedi.
Kun = Sith.

KUN IS NOT A FOE OF THE DARKNESS.

Have you heard of sarcasm?

Originally posted by Faunus
Apparently, asking you to coming to your own sound logical conclusions is too much to ask.

Good = foe of the darkness.
Bad = the darkness.
Jedi = Good.
Sith = Bad.
Yoda = Jedi.
Kun = Sith.

KUN IS NOT A FOE OF THE DARKNESS.

Have you heard of sarcasm?

yes only today has been a horrible day and I didn't catch the sarcasm at all. I honestly was confused since you're very knowledgeable in the SW field and saying Kun wasn't a dlots got me all sorts a discunfubbled.



Faulty yes, but I don't see how it doesnt applay here.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
yes only today has been a horrible day and I didn't catch the sarcasm at all. I honestly was confused since you're very knowledgeable in the SW field and saying Kun wasn't a dlots got me all sorts a discunfubbled Phew.

Originally posted by Faunus
The most powerful for the darkness had ever known. That automatically makes him more powerful than Kun, who was, y'know, not at all the Dark Lord of the Sith. And even if he were, everybody knows that Sith Lords are foes of the darkness. Logic ftw.

Did you just say that Kun wasn't Dark Lord of the Sith? I know it's supposed to be sarcasm, but then you go, 'even if he were'....

I really couldn't follow xxpoppunker's arguments and, by extension, yours with him. But I hope you and others in this thread aren't taking the quote in the ROTS novel regarding Yoda as absolute law. It comes from a limited 3rd person point of view. That, and Stover's work is full of hyperbole enough to make anyone sick.

As for the thread, I would definitely say that Yoda is superior to Kun in the Force. I'd say that Kun is above Dooku in the Force department, though.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I am not going to argue about how we view the movie scene because our opinions definitely differ there. However I will mention this, if Yoda was so much superior to Dooku in force abilities and block his attacks with ease, why didn't he simply freeze Dooku from moving as he did Ventress in the new star wars clone series?

Since Yoda has superior TK abilities he could have taken Dooku's sabers away from him as he did to Ventress in the new clone war series, why didn't he since he wanted to capture Dooku? The logical conclusion he could not. It was not so easy for Yoda and would not be against Kun either.

You seem to be basing your win on the simple fact the Yoda is mostly liking more powerful, but again by how much? Whereas Mace would be a match for Yoda with a saber why wouldn't Kun with the force? Unless you are also saying Kun is inferior to Dooku with it comes to the force.

He could have done a lot of things that he didn't to Dooku. He was able to force throw Sidious several feet away. But since he didn't do Dooku the same way, does it mean he couldn't? Which i am sure he can since he did it to Darth Sidious who is more powerful than Dooku.

Originally posted by Faunus
Dooku mentions Yoda's "handling" of the Sith lightning; the omniscient narrator of the AotC novel says it was "far from easy."

Even if Dooku directly stated that Yoda easily deflected his assault, omnisicient narrator > him.

The most powerful for the darkness had ever known. That automatically makes him more powerful than Kun, who was, y'know, not at all the Dark Lord of the Sith. And even if he were, everybody knows that Sith Lords are foes of the darkness. Logic ftw.

Was it worded the exact same way, as being "far from easy"?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Did you just say that Kun wasn't Dark Lord of the Sith? I know it's supposed to be sarcasm, but then you go, 'even if he were'.... And then I went on to say "everybody knows that Sith Lords are foes of the darkness."

I know what I'm doing.

Well, "far from easily," yeah.

whats teh rest of that quote? because Dark Rendevous seems to imply the opposite doesn't it, Dooku knew yoda easily pushed aside his force attacks or something like that.

Yoda stopped the bolt in his hand, but "far from easily."

Something very similar to that; I don't remember the exact quote, but that's the whole sentence.

Take the statement at face value. Was it easy? No. But he handled the lightning in such a fashion that the arrogant aristo changed his mind about continuing with the Force assaults.

Aristocats... I never saw that movie, but I think I have it.

Originally posted by Faunus
Aristocats... I never saw that movie, but I think I have it.

Hehe. "Everybody wants to be a cat." That movie was awesome.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He could have done a lot of things that he didn't to Dooku. He was able to force throw Sidious several feet away. But since he didn't do Dooku the same way, does it mean he couldn't? Which i am sure he can since he did it to Darth Sidious who is more powerful than Dooku.

No one is stating that Yoda could not do a lot of things to Dooku however you are missing the point. You stated that he counter Dooku's attack with ease. My example was to show that he did not. Simply put Yoda's battle with Dooku was far from easy.

Yoda wanted to capture Dooku and it would be logical that he would have simply overpowered Dooku with the force as he did Ventress so that he could have capture him. Yoda could not simply restrain Dooku with force and it led to a all out battle.

If Exar Kun is superior to Dooku in force abilities which I believe he is, then he definitely has a chance in defeating Yoda in a force battle.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
Watch AOTC if you will see an odd gap where Anakin just stops and "lets" Dooku cut off his arm.



clearly taunting him? If you are referring to him slashing his lightsaber down at obi while he is hanging on for his life then yes you are right, but there are 2-3 seconds when obi-wan is i dunno RIGHT in front of Maul and he just stands there and watches as obi wan comes up flips over hims then looks at him right before obi-wan cuts him in half, where Maul could have easily killed obi-wan but he doesn't.







the ROTS novelization says

"Finally, he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just-didn't-have it."

he was the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known. I don't understand how you don't see that Yoda is quite a bit above Kun(without his amulets) in force power.



Yes, from what the novelization says I would deffinantly say that yoda is more powerful than Kun.

and with all due respect since when was Kun NOT a sith?

xxxpoppunker182 your statements are your opinions of how you view the movie scenes which is no need to argue and does not apply. If you want the simple answer as to why everything happen the way it did in the movies, simply put that is the way they wrote the script.

Neither does it quantify how Yoda stacks up against Vodo or Odan.

Sure he is definitely more powerful than them, but you're suggesting he was leagues above them, no definitive proof there.

Kun wouldn't win, but he wouldn't lose horribly either, he wouldn't have been far off from Sidious

Originally posted by Deception
Neither does it quantify how Yoda stacks up against Vodo or Odan.

Sure he is definitely more powerful than them, but you're suggesting he was leagues above them, no definitive proof there.
There's actually much proof that he was leagues above Odan and Urr based on his command of the force and his feats. It would be your burden to prove that Odan and Vodo were anywhere near Yoda in the force department.



Another blanket statement that begs for proof.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Another blanket statement that begs for proof.

What is a blanket statement the fact that Kun will not win, will not lose horribly or is not far from Sidious in power?

That he wouldn't be far from Sidious in power.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
There's actually much proof that he was leagues above Odan and Urr based on his command of the force and his feats.

'Odan and Urr' = same person. Odan-Urr.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That he wouldn't be far from Sidious in power.

Dooku is consider to be not to far from Sidious in power, so do you consider Dooku superior to Kun in force abilities?

Who considers Dooku not far from Sidious in power, and which version of Sidious?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Who considers Dooku not far from Sidious in power, and which version of Sidious?

Many members of this forum, and I am referring to ROTS Sidious.

It's possible Kun is near Sidious in power, but making a statement like that without proof is retarded. Someone like Vader is conclusively near ROTS Sidious in power.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It's possible Kun is near Sidious in power, but making a statement like that without proof is retarded. Someone like Vader is conclusively near ROTS Sidious in power.

Understood, some view points or feats from Kun could have been added to the statement.

Originally posted by Kotor3
No one is stating that Yoda could not do a lot of things to Dooku however you are missing the point. You stated that he counter Dooku's attack with ease. My example was to show that he did not. Simply put Yoda's battle with Dooku was far from easy.

Yoda wanted to capture Dooku and it would be logical that he would have simply overpowered Dooku with the force as he did Ventress so that he could have capture him. Yoda could not simply restrain Dooku with force and it led to a all out battle.

If Exar Kun is superior to Dooku in force abilities which I believe he is, then he definitely has a chance in defeating Yoda in a force battle.

No i think you are missing the point. Yoda did not even try to over power, or restrain Dooku with the force. All he did was counter all of Dooku's powers. The only thing he tried to attack Dooku with was Dooku's own lightning, other than that he was just throwing off all Dooku's attack's.

The burden is on you to prove that Kun is superior to Dooku in the force. Kun is definately not superior to Sidious in the force, and Sidious was not able to defeat Yoda.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No i think you are missing the point. Yoda did not even try to over power, or restrain Dooku with the force. All he did was counter all of Dooku's powers. The only thing he tried to attack Dooku with was Dooku's own lightning, other than that he was just throwing off all Dooku's attack's.

The burden is on you to prove that Kun is superior to Dooku in the force. Kun is definately not superior to Sidious in the force, and Sidious was not able to defeat Yoda.

If I am missing the point Sidious 66 please tell me are you getting the non-effort or not trying part on Yoda from the novel or your interpretation of the movie scene?

You have stated that Yoda was able to easily counter Dooku's force attacks. Now you stated Yoda did not try to restrain Dooku or overpower him. Base on what?

What is clear is that Yoda was superior in force and saber combat and did not want to kill Dooku but capture him. Yoda had ample time to restrain and capture Dooku but did not. Never was Dooku's saber out of his hand. Dooku ran when it was obvious he could not win. According to your logic Yoda simply wasted time with Dooku by making no effort at all to capture.

So you are not confused, I am not arguing that Yoda is superior in the force to Kun or that he could win. I pose the question is Dooku superior to Kun in force abilities. You want to make it seem that Kun like Dooku would be a easy win for Yoda but you have not made a good argument.

Originally posted by Kotor3
If I am missing the point Sidious 66 please tell me are you getting the non-effort or not trying part on Yoda from the novel or your interpretation of the movie scene?

You have stated that Yoda was able to easily counter Dooku's force attacks. Now you stated Yoda did not try to restrain Dooku or overpower him. Base on what?

What is clear is that Yoda was superior in force and saber combat and did not want to kill Dooku but capture him. Yoda had ample time to restrain and capture Dooku but did not. Never was Dooku's saber out of his hand. Dooku ran when it was obvious he could not win. According to your logic Yoda simply wasted time with Dooku by making no effort at all to capture.

So you are not confused, I am not arguing that Yoda is superior in the force to Kun or that he could win. I pose the question is Dooku superior to Kun in force abilities. You want to make it seem that Kun like Dooku would be a easy win for Yoda but you have not made a good argument.

Maybe Yoda did not counter Dooku's force attacks with ease, but that doesn't mean it was extremely difficult. Did you once see Yoda attack Dooku with the force, other that throwing Dooku's own lightning back at him? When Dooku threw machinery at Yoda, did you see Yoda throw any back? Did you see Yoda try to disable Dooku with a force throw?

So my question to you is, how did Yoda try to over power or restrain Dooku with the force?

You are the one who said Kun was superior to Dooku, so you are the one who should prove it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You are the one who said Kun was superior to Dooku, so you are the one who should prove it.

As a 4,000 year old spirit, Kun separates Luke's soul from his body and Force chokes multiple Jedi Knights at the Praxeum at once...

Originally posted by Enyalus
As a 4,000 year old spirit, Kun separates Luke's soul from his body and Force chokes multiple Jedi Knights at the Praxeum at once... A.) That's pretty cool and impressive, but not much of a guage of Force-prowess. At least in combat terms. Unless Exar can do the same to Yoda while he's fighting him, it won't help him.

B.) For all intents and purposes, they were Jedi apprentices. Even Luke couldn't be placed at Yoda's level at the time.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Maybe Yoda did not counter Dooku's force attacks with ease, but that doesn't mean it was extremely difficult. Did you once see Yoda attack Dooku with the force, other that throwing Dooku's own lightning back at him? When Dooku threw machinery at Yoda, did you see Yoda throw any back? Did you see Yoda try to disable Dooku with a force throw?

So my question to you is, how did Yoda try to over power or restrain Dooku with the force?

You are the one who said Kun was superior to Dooku, so you are the one who should prove it.

Maybe I missed it, when did I say Kun was superior to Dooku. I did ask the question to you and others. I also stated that if he is superior then he has a definite chance at defeating Yoda in pure force combat.

In my personal opinion I would believe Kun is in the force department because I believe his feats are greater than Dooku in the force department.

Now as for how Yoda fought Dooku he did engage Dooku in saber combat. Maybe it was bad writing but the movie and novel support the fact the Yoda wanted to capture Dooku. No where does it state according to my knowledge that Yoda did not want to capture Dooku.

That is all I have to go off Sidious 66. Since Yoda did not resort to force attacks on Dooku we really do not know how effective in would have been on Dooku. Yes I do say Yoda would win against Dooku but we ease I doubt. He definitely had to work hard when engaging in saber combat.

That leaves open the one of the original questions I ask before do you feel that Kun is superior in the force department? If not then ok no need to explain why you feel so.

Originally posted by Tangible God
A.) That's pretty cool and impressive, but not much of a guage of Force-prowess. At least in combat terms. Unless Exar can do the same to Yoda while he's fighting him, it won't help him.

B.) For all intents and purposes, they were Jedi apprentices. Even Luke couldn't be placed at Yoda's level at the time.

Which version of Luke was this?

Sorry for the multiple post.

Sidious 66 one more thing I forgot to mention:
Dooku did not become scared when Yoda counter all his force attacks instead he simply said that this fight cannot be won from our knowledge of the force and then took out his saber. Quite different from the coward Sidious.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Maybe I missed it, when did I say Kun was superior to Dooku. I did ask the question to you and others. I also stated that if he is superior then he has a definite chance at defeating Yoda in pure force combat.

In my personal opinion I would believe Kun is in the force department because I believe his feats are greater than Dooku in the force department.

Now as for how Yoda fought Dooku he did engage Dooku in saber combat. Maybe it was bad writing but the movie and novel support the fact the Yoda wanted to capture Dooku. No where does it state according to my knowledge that Yoda did not want to capture Dooku.

That is all I have to go off Sidious 66. Since Yoda did not resort to force attacks on Dooku we really do not know how effective in would have been on Dooku. Yes I do say Yoda would win against Dooku but we ease I doubt. He definitely had to work hard when engaging in saber combat.

That leaves open the one of the original questions I ask before do you feel that Kun is superior in the force department? If not then ok no need to explain why you feel so.

I never said Yoda did not want to capture Dooku.

Kun is very powerful in the force. Imo Dooku and Kun are close. However i say Dooku has shown more with the the force as far as combat. Dooku has telekenetically ripped heavy machinery from walls, used the force to disable several different powerful force users, such as Obi Wan, Ventress, Quinlan Vos, and Sora Bulq.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Sorry for the multiple post.

Sidious 66 one more thing I forgot to mention:
Dooku did not become scared when Yoda counter all his force attacks instead he simply said that this fight cannot be won from our knowledge of the force and then took out his saber. Quite different from the coward Sidious.

And what does this prove?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I never said Yoda did not want to capture Dooku.
I am aware of what you said Sidious 66. This conversation started based on what you implied about the no effort part on Yoda when in his duel with Dooku. If I am understanding correctly you are stating that Yoda did not capture Dooku because he put no effort into it.

This is purely an opinion base assumption that has no backing. The fact that Yoda felt it was important to capture Dooku to end the war would dictate that he would try his best to do so. The same logic could be used in the Dooku vs Obi Wan and Anakin duel in which he clearly was the superior but to say it took no effort would be an definite incorrect statement which I sure you could agree with.

We have seen what domination is such as what Yoda and Dooku did to Ventress.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Kun is very powerful in the force. Imo Dooku and Kun are close. However i say Dooku has shown more with the the force as far as combat. Dooku has telekenetically ripped heavy machinery from walls, used the force to disable several different powerful force users, such as Obi Wan, Ventress, Quinlan Vos, and Sora Bulq.

Ok, I respect your opinion on this. I feel differently because the feats you mention below I believe Exar Kun could done as effectively but I do not believe Dooku could resist a force server and kill a Jedi master immediately. I also do not believe as a spirit he could have had the impact that Kun did on Luke and his apprentices.

As for what your other statement as to what is proven, is that Dooku was never in fear of Yoda due to force abilities until he saw that he could not win in a saber combat. That is when he fled. Point of the conversation is Dooku is a match for Yoda. So would Kun be and I believe an even more dangerous opponent.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I am aware of what you said Sidious 66. This conversation started based on what you implied about the no effort part on Yoda when in his duel with Dooku. If I am understanding correctly you are stating that Yoda did not capture Dooku because he put no effort into it.

This is purely an opinion base assumption that has no backing. The fact that Yoda felt it was important to capture Dooku to end the war would dictate that he would try his best to do so. The same logic could be used in the Dooku vs Obi Wan and Anakin duel in which he clearly was the superior but to say it took no effort would be an definite incorrect statement which I sure you could agree with.

We have seen what domination is such as what Yoda and Dooku did to Ventress.



Ok, I respect your opinion on this. I feel differently because the feats you mention below I believe Exar Kun could done as effectively but I do not believe Dooku could resist a force server and kill a Jedi master immediately. I also do not believe as a spirit he could have had the impact that Kun did on Luke and his apprentices.

As for what your other statement as to what is proven, is that Dooku was never in fear of Yoda due to force abilities until he saw that he could not win in a saber combat. That is when he fled. Point of the conversation is Dooku is a match for Yoda. So would Kun be and I believe an even more dangerous opponent.

The arguement about whether Yoda countered Dooku's lightning with ease or not, was over long ago. Faunus Quoted me the passage, and i dropped the claim.

You keep implying Yoda tried his best to capture Dooku, based on Yoda saying he wanted Dooku capture. What Yoda did and said are two different things. You keep saying i am wrong when i said Yoda did not try to use the force to overpower, or restrain Dooku, even though you have not proven this.

Originally posted by Tangible God
A.) That's pretty cool and impressive, but not much of a guage of Force-prowess. At least in combat terms. Unless Exar can do the same to Yoda while he's fighting him, it won't help him.

B.) For all intents and purposes, they were Jedi apprentices. Even Luke couldn't be placed at Yoda's level at the time.

A.) Maybe Exar will wave his hand and kill Yoda as he does Odan-Urr?

B.) This is Luke after he disabled an army of battle droids, tanked AT-AT blasts with his Force shields and solo'd the thing, and defeated DE Sidious in saber combat...While Yoda couldn't manage to best the far weaker ROTS version of Palpatine.

B.) This is Luke after he disabled an army of battle droids,Mace Windu's done it.
Starkiller's done it, and he was "no match" for an OT-era Emperor's power.
It's not that simple. While I'm not sure exactly what Leia did for him, he didn't win that fight under his own power alone. In fact, when he'd challenged the newly resurrected Palpatine earlier, he was quickly disarmed and floored.
"Far" weaker?

And Yoda was, in my opinion, the superior warrior of the two as of RotS, although Palpatine certainly fought smarter. The script directly states that he disarmed the Sith Lord - which isn't in the movie, but isn't contradicted by it either - and he was powerful enough to take a full-power blast of lightning with his bare hands and force it back towards his enemy while in a terrible position; the new Emperor was situated right in the middle of the Senate pod, but Yoda was grasping onto the metal edge with his feet.

Personally, I don't think any but a roughly NJO-era Luke could solidly defeat him in a fight.

Originally posted by Faunus
Mace Windu's done it.
With a wave of his hand? Mace is an amazing warrior, yes, but this isn't a display of force power

AT-ATs? And when did he just throw up a force shield?

Quite true


Confused, who's the 'him' here? Palpatine or Yoda?

I'll agree, as Yoda's Ataru was WAY more suited to a duel in the scenario.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
With a wave of his hand? Mace is an amazing warrior, yes, but this isn't a display of force powerCWC?

Force-lightning followed by telekinesis, according to Gideon (TUF novel).

Against the AT-AT? I don't think he did. But he took Palpatine's lightning at point-blank range with his bare hands before blowing everything up.

Yoda.

How so?

Originally posted by Kotor3
Which version of Luke was this? Circa 11 BBY, I think.

Originally posted by Faunus
CWC?
Yeah, but Luke was pretty much 'gesture, droids explode' there...Mace was doing a lotta fighting

I think he was destroying AT-STs, though....if it was an AT AT, I'll buy it

Indeed. Still, 'taking,' is different than 'shielding self from.'

Well, it's an arena that would make acrobatics key, plus a small confined space to start. That's a good place for Yoda to fight

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, but Luke was pretty much 'gesture, droids explode' there...Mace was doing a lotta fightingThe sliding Force-crush that took out eight SBDs was what I was thinking of.

Gideon said AT-AT. When someone inquired, he said AT-AT again. I assume he can distinguish between the two.

Well, even Tott Doneeta was capable of shielding himself from starfighter blasts, so I don't think it'd be much of a stretch to say someone like Mace or Yoda couldn't do the same.

Aren't confined spaces bad for the acrobatic nature of Ataru?

Originally posted by Faunus
The sliding Force-crush that took out eight SBDs was what I was thinking of.
there is that, but Luke using the droid destruction ability on so many droids at once with no effort?
Awesome/

Good point

There being no ceilings and lots of other pods around probably helped

Originally posted by Lightsnake
there is that, but Luke using the droid destruction ability on so many droids at once with no effort?We only see three droids get blown apart. Three droids that weren't focused on him, while he wasn't unarmed, jumping through one evasive maneuver after another, or being attacked from all sides by hundreds of other battle droids.

I thought you were talking about the podium duel. Palpatine didn't even have his lightsaber out when they were flinging around pods.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The arguement about whether Yoda countered Dooku's lightning with ease or not, was over long ago. Faunus Quoted me the passage, and i dropped the claim.

You keep implying Yoda tried his best to capture Dooku, based on Yoda saying he wanted Dooku capture. What Yoda did and said are two different things. You keep saying i am wrong when i said Yoda did not try to use the force to overpower, or restrain Dooku, even though you have not proven this.

I do not know what you want to hear Sidious 66. I have already given my answer to your comment above "Now as for how Yoda fought Dooku he did engage Dooku in saber combat. Maybe it was bad writing but the movie and novel support the fact the Yoda wanted to capture Dooku. No where does it state according to my knowledge that Yoda did not want to capture Dooku."

You have only given an answer of observation but not one that would explain why Yoda would have not put up an effort to capturing Dooku. I have stated the logic as to why Yoda would which you have no counter for except for the fact you do not except the logic behind Yoda motives.

There are ones on this forum who can give actually quotes which show that Yoda was exhausted from his battle with Dooku. Either way we can drop this one, maybe some else can provide more light on matter.

Originally posted by Faunus
We only see three droids get blown apart. Three droids that weren't focused on him, while he wasn't unarmed, jumping through one evasive maneuver after another, or being attacked from all sides by hundreds of other battle droids.
I think the audiobook confirms he was blowing apart a lotta others

Well, Podium duel, too....Yoda's Ataru seemed to be a boon for him there.

Originally posted by Faunus
Mace Windu's done it.

Yep. And so does Yoda in the new CW cartoon. TG said Luke wasn't on Yoda's level during JA. The droid feat takes place during DE, a little over a year before JA. Mace destroyed a battalion of battle droids. Yoda's destroyed an army of battle droids. Luke's destroyed an army of battle droids. And Luke does it by waving his hand - which is pretty cool.

Originally posted by Faunus
Starkiller's done it, and he was "no match" for an OT-era Emperor's power.

You were the one who was claiming Starkiller was Yoda-level based on the feats he does. I...don't really agree, but if you believe that, and Luke pulls the same stunt Galen Marek did, then by the substitution property Luke's on Yoda's level, too.

Plus, Galen's feat is less impressive than Luke's. Galen uses Force Lightning to disable or disrupt the AT-AT, and then he Force Crushes it.

Luke, though, actually stands there and lets the AT-AT fire at him, tanking two blasts on his Force Shields. Then uses his lightsaber to deflect the shots back, disabling it...and then Force Pushes it down.

To me, that's the better feat. Plus, Dark Side powers are more offensive in nature than Light Side techniques. Designed to inflict maximum damage and kill, etc.

Originally posted by Faunus
It's not that simple. While I'm not sure exactly what Leia did for him, he didn't win that fight under his own power alone. In fact, when he'd challenged the newly resurrected Palpatine earlier, he was quickly disarmed and floored.

According to the audiobook, Leia simply clears away the shadows from Luke's mind. That's about it. As for their first fight, Luke was seriously mentally f*cked up. He had half-assed gone to the Dark Side, and then tries to go back to the light. Plus they're on Byss, one of the most powerful Dark Side planets ever, a place where Palpatine 'seemed invulnerable' on. He gets disarmed in three panels. In their rematch, Luke literally disarmed Palpatine in four panels. So he doesn't do bad during their first duel, considering all the disadvantages he had to overcome.

Originally posted by Faunus
"Far" weaker?

Well, he's had 29 years and the acquisition of numerous other holocrons to hone his skills and study 'the Force in all its guises' from ROTS to DE. The Dark Side Sourcebook says DE Sidious has 'limitless power and immortality,' and his Force strength is great enough to invent an attack to rend the fabric of space-time itself.

Yeah. I'd say he's a lot stronger.

Originally posted by Faunus
And Yoda was, in my opinion, the superior warrior of the two as of RotS, although Palpatine certainly fought smarter. The script directly states that he disarmed the Sith Lord - which isn't in the movie, but isn't contradicted by it either - and he was powerful enough to take a full-power blast of lightning with his bare hands and force it back towards his enemy while in a terrible position; the new Emperor was situated right in the middle of the Senate pod, but Yoda was grasping onto the metal edge with his feet.

I agree! I think Yoda was the superior duelist in their battle, and possibly even slightly stronger in the Force - considering Yoda sending back Palpatine's Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Faunus
Personally, I don't think any but a roughly NJO-era Luke could solidly defeat him in a fight.

I might agree. I'm not sure. I wasn't trying to argue that, though. Only that Luke was on Yoda's level by JA. Which I think he is, based on what he shows by JA.

Skywalker doesn't reach anything approaching elite status until the end of NJO and Palpatine is more powerful than Yoda.

Originally posted by Gideon
Skywalker doesn't reach anything approaching elite status until the end of NJO and Palpatine is more powerful than Yoda.

He takes out five to six Vong warriors at once in Vector Prime with incredible ease while Mara, an incredible combatant in her own right, barely managed to kill one. He also manipulates a large dorvin basal at the Battle of Dantooine in one of the early novels.

I don't think he improves so drastically within three years (The Unifying Force). Just that he holds back way more than anyone should.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He takes out five to six Vong warriors at once in Vector Prime with incredible ease while Mara, an incredible combatant in her own right, barely managed to kill one. He also manipulates a large dorvin basal at the Battle of Dantooine in one of the early novels.

I don't think he improves so drastically within three years (The Unifying Force). Just that he holds back way more than anyone should.

Quiet.

Originally posted by Gideon
Quiet.

Be nice, children.

Originally posted by Enyalus
A.) Maybe Exar will wave his hand and kill Yoda as he does Odan-Urr?

B.) This is Luke after he disabled an army of battle droids, tanked AT-AT blasts with his Force shields and solo'd the thing, and defeated DE Sidious in saber combat...While Yoda couldn't manage to best the far weaker ROTS version of Palpatine.

Luke had to have his power augmented by Leia and her unborn child.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Luke had to have his power augmented by Leia and her unborn child.

No. You're thinking of when they severed Palpatine's Force connection at the end of DE. All Leia does during their duel is clear the shadows from Luke's mind.

Originally posted by Faunus


Gideon said AT-AT. When someone inquired, he said AT-AT again. I assume he can distinguish between the two.

I think its an AT-ST, according to empire at war AT-AT's came out after the battle of yavin and before the empire strikes back.

TFU took place 2 BBY.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No. You're thinking of when they severed Palpatine's Force connection at the end of DE. All Leia does during their duel is clear the shadows from Luke's mind.

No im talking about when Luke was fighting Palpatine. She used a type of battle meditation.

The novel said an AT-AT.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No. You're thinking of when they severed Palpatine's Force connection at the end of DE. All Leia does during their duel is clear the shadows from Luke's mind.

whatever that means.... you realize how wide open for interpretation a phrase like that is?

Before Luke and Leia start to cut Palpatine off his power, Luke tells Leia to join her power to his, she tells him: "I already have Luke... Haven't you felt it".(or something along those lines)

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Before Luke and Leia start to cut Palpatine off his power, Luke tells Leia to join her power to his, she tells him: "I already have Luke... Haven't you felt it".(or something along those lines)

Yes. And that was after Luke's duel and him cutting off Palpatine's hand. In preparation for cutting him off from the Force.