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I am pretty sure this has been dont before but check this out. The official stats on Kisame finally came out and basically the only thing he has for him is his chakra supply and his strength. So lets say Zabuza's stats would of went up just like ever other character has would he win?

And the fight is never a large body of water.

Kisame...He was the strongest Mist Swordsman and has better feats.

Gai had to open 6 Gates to beat a Kisame clone with 30% chakra.

Kisame is physically stronger and is as fast or faster.

Kisame wields a better sword, which is also able to absorb chakra.

Kisame has used better Water Jutsu IMO.

Kisame has uber haxx.

kisame called zabuza a "kid".

Lol really? I do not remember that.

But Kisame is like, older, bigger, and stronger and stuff.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Lol really? I do not remember that.

But Kisame is like, older, bigger, and stronger and stuff.

Sharkier, cooler, etc.

A bigger penis.

^with gills and fish breath{or its equivalent}.

kisame called zabuza a "kid Apparently you didnt read the question. I didn't ask who had better feats and i said if Zabuza stats would of increased like everybody elses would he win. And what does Kisame callling Zabuza a kid have to do with who is stronger or who would of been stronger if Zabuza lived? We don't know why Kisame called Zabuza a kid. It could of been because he was older or because he didnt like Zabuza.

Zabuza Momochi pre-chunin exam stats

Taijutsu 9
Genjutsu 5
Ninjutsu 9
Intelligence 6
Hand Seal 8
Speed 8
Strength 8
Chakra 8

Kisame Hoshigake Time Skipped stats

Taijustu 9
Genjutsu 5
Ninjutsu 9
Intelligence 6
Handseal 7
Speed 8
Strength 10
Chakra 10

These are the offical stats from the shows creator.

One thing else most of you dont get. Kisame's clone has 30 percent of his chakra. That has nothing to do with his other ninja abilites. Then look at who has fighting. Might Gai who has no real ninjutsu or handseal ability and look who Zabuza faced. Kakashi the most skilled Jonin in The Hidden Leaf Village and both times they faced Zabuza had the upperhand.

^ since we're using kakashi as a go-between now, gai is a known rival of his and the two are close peers in ninja abilities dispite their different ways of fighting. kakashi, a couple genin, and some villagers killed zabuza.

gai going close to all out, barely defeated a 30% chackra clone of kisame, who was the strongest member of the hidden mist's 7 swordsman.

kisame single handedly beat down the four-tails for christ's sake.

^ since we're using kakashi as a go-between now, gai is a known rival of his and the two are close peers in ninja abilities dispite their different ways of fighting. kakashi, a couple genin, and some villagers killed zabuza.

gai going close to all out, barely defeated a 30% chackra clone of kisame, who was the strongest member of the hidden mist's 7 swordsman.

kisame single handedly beat down the four-tails for christ's sake.


Cute. I could of sworn Zabuza had Kakashi beat in their first fight and i could of sworn Kakashi actually said if Naruto and Sasuke didnt help him he would of been killed. You know what having 30 percent chakra means? Apparenlty you people dont. Maybe you should ask some person who knows about Naruto to expalin it to you. The more chakra you have the more stamina you have. The more chakra you have the bigger creature you can summon. Having chakra doenst make you strong.


Good lord. Itachi's chakra supply is probably the lowest of any adult male character in the show so based off you peoples logic he is pretty weak then. Fighting Might Gai and fighting somebody with the Sharingan is a whole different thing. Might Gai is a idiot with a lot of speed, power and chakra but nohting else.

AND I SAID IF ZABUZA WOULD OF STAYED ALIVE AND HIS HAD HIS NUMBERS INCREASE LIKE EVERY OTHER CHARACTER WOULD HE OF WON.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Cute. I could of sworn Zabuza had Kakashi beat in their first fight and i could of sworn Kakashi actually said if Naruto and Sasuke didnt help him he would of been killed.
You recall wrong. Nothing of the sort occurred.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Cute. I could of sworn Zabuza had Kakashi beat in their first fight and i could of sworn Kakashi actually said if Naruto and Sasuke didnt help him he would of been killed. You know what having 30 percent chakra means? Apparenlty you people dont. Maybe you should ask some person who knows about Naruto to expalin it to you. The more chakra you have the more stamina you have. The more chakra you have the bigger creature you can summon. Having chakra doenst make you strong.


Good lord. Itachi's chakra supply is probably the lowest of any adult male character in the show so based off you peoples logic he is pretty weak then. Fighting Might Gai and fighting somebody with the Sharingan is a whole different thing. Might Gai is a idiot with a lot of speed, power and chakra but nohting else.

AND I SAID IF ZABUZA WOULD OF STAYED ALIVE AND HIS HAD HIS NUMBERS INCREASE LIKE EVERY OTHER CHARACTER WOULD HE OF WON. 1. ZOMG NO WAI!? Kisame at 30% was pwning Gai and his whole team. Wanna know what 30% chakra means? Less chakra to use for attacks and put in them, making attacks less powerful and lowering the amount of times you can do them, less strength since you cannot use as much to amp your strength, less speed since you cannot use it to amp speed, yeah, having less chakra means something.

...Why does Itachi have the lowest chakra supply of any adult male character? That is unfounded. Gai is faster than any Sharingan user barring Madara and Itachi MAYBE, he is stronger, better at Taijutsu, and then there is the fact that he is Kakashi's equal. Gai is one of Leaf's strongest Jonin. And Zabuza did not "pwn" Kakashi by any stretch of the imagination, sure, he was able to hold the upperhand in their fights a few times, but Kakashi did the same. Both were about equal.

Not likely, the adult character's stats are mostly unchanged.

You recall wrong. Nothing of the sort occurred

Lol me wrong? Maybe you should watch the episode again. Zabuza trapped Kakashi and if it wasnt for Naruto and Saskuke saving him he would of died. Try again.

Dark Jaxx did you create Naruto? Because the guy who did says Itachi's chakra is only about a 5 out of 10 which is lower than Zabuza. Maybe you should create your own manga and then you can decide what characters can do what. If the person who created this show says something then I will take his word for it and not base my opinions on what character i think is cooler

First Manga Appearance: Chapter 139
First Anime Appearance: Naruto Episode 80
Name Meaning: Uchiha=wa/ha character switch to make "fan"; Itachi=Weasel
Hidden Village: Leaf Village
Rank: At least Chuunin, but high Jounin level in skill (Missing-Nin)
Age: 21
Signature Abilities: Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi
Notable Features: Sasuke's Older Brother, Wiped out his clan, S-Ranked Criminal.
See also: Hoshigaki Kisame, Uchiha Sasuke
Character Appreciation: Click here to Discuss Itachi

Personal Stats

Total Stats
Latent Potential Unknown
Luck Unknown





Databook 3 Stats|Data


Advancement Data
Academy Grad Age: 7
Sharingan Activation: 8
Chuunin Exam Age: 10

Missions Completed
D-Rank: 53
C-Rank: 152
B-Rank: 134
A-Rank: 0
S-Rank: 1

oops i didnt post his skills chart

Leafninja.com You can look up his stuff yourself

Don't take the stats too literal, its obviously not exact, it has things like Orochimaru's genjutsu is 5, and Itachi's genjutsu is 5, does that mean Orochimaru's genjutsu is on par with Itachi's?

a couple other examples are Gaara's Ninjutsu is 5 so is Sasuke, and so is Orochimarus, Gaara and Sasuke have ninjutsu on par with Orochimaru?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Don't take the stats too literal, its obviously not exact, it has things like Orochimaru's genjutsu is 5, and Itachi's genjutsu is 5, does that mean Orochimaru's genjutsu is on par with Itachi's?

a couple other examples are Gaara's Ninjutsu is 5 so is Sasuke, and so is Orochimarus, Gaara and Sasuke have ninjutsu on par with Orochimaru?

i kno your right leafninja.com hast been updated in a while

...Itachi's genjutsu is only rated a 5, Itachi who is among the best Genjutsu users in the series?

Lul wut?

we should not even b talking about this clearly kisame will win

Juggy Man is an idiot.

Kisame would win. Even if Zabuza lived and got a boost Kisame would still win.

When Kakashi got serious and used his Sharignan he whooped Zabuza's ass and at one point knocked the shit out of him without even looking at him.

Gai had to use one of his strongest, perhaps thee strongest technique in his aresenal to defeat a man who was using only 30% of his power.

Those are the facts. That is end.

kisame's water clone would beat zabuza easily

Really using stats to make assumptions is ridiculous.

kisame akatsuki and zabuza isnt he not good enough.

Originally posted by roz88
kisame akatsuki and zabuza isnt he not good enough.


this is tru

Kisame beats Zabuza badly.

yea tru!

A fight that some one should post is Zabuza vs Raiga. That would be a better fight and it would be even closer. This fight, lol, juggy man, did your mommy drop you on your head when you were a baby, I am just curious because this is a stupid fight. Everyone knows Kisame>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zabuza.

raiga lost 2 naruto and that was a filler

Originally posted by Wil7
A fight that some one should post is Zabuza vs Raiga. That would be a better fight and it would be even closer. This fight, lol, juggy man, did your mommy drop you on your head when you were a baby, I am just curious because this is a stupid fight. Everyone knows Kisame>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zabuza.


did ur mom drop u on ur head everybody knows sasuke current will beat gaara current and sasuke current will beat neji current

Originally posted by roz88
raiga lost 2 naruto and that was a filler

Yeah, but naruto at that current form could probably beat zabuza as well.

yo braveheart, I never said that gaara could beat sasuke. And neji beating sasuke is my opinion. Your mom must have dropped you on your head consistantly because you don't realize that everyone on here saying that sasuke would beat neji, sasuke beating itachi, pein beating the akatsuki, etc is all opinions. Your too dence, and stupid to realize that everything you say is an opinion except for proving stuff that the fighter can do, and how he could beat him. You saying who would win is your opinion.

Originally posted by Wil7
Yeah, but naruto at that current form could probably beat zabuza as well.

yo braveheart, I never said that gaara could beat sasuke. And neji beating sasuke is my opinion. Your mom must have dropped you on your head consistantly because you don't realize that everyone on here saying that sasuke would beat neji, sasuke beating itachi, pein beating the akatsuki, etc is all opinions. Your too dence, and stupid to realize that everything you say is an opinion except for proving stuff that the fighter can do, and how he could beat him. You saying who would win is your opinion.


all of u r saying sauke will lose because yall r on neji's dick neji isnt even getting any burn retard

Originally posted by braveheart
all of u r saying sauke will lose because yall r on neji's dick neji isnt even getting any burn retard


ur opinons r stupid how bout that arguement over!!!!!

naruto wud beat zabuza if they both current cause zabuza is dead.

WOW!! braveheart, yur combacks are so terrible, I can't even descibe how bad they are. Your still not realizing it is all a matter of opinion, not fact. You need to mature up.

Originally posted by Wil7
WOW!! braveheart, yur combacks are so terrible, I can't even descibe how bad they are. Your still not realizing it is all a matter of opinion, not fact. You need to mature up.


mature up 2 wat i kno its all about opinion
stupid and i just said i think ur
"opinion" is stupid do u understand or do i hav 2 dump it down

Juggy Man is an idiot.

Kisame would win. Even if Zabuza lived and got a boost Kisame would still win.

When Kakashi got serious and used his Sharignan he whooped Zabuza's ass and at one point knocked the shit out of him without even looking at him.

Gai had to use one of his strongest, perhaps thee strongest technique in his aresenal to defeat a man who was using only 30% of his power.

Those are the facts. That is end.


Comic book forum insults is all you got? Lol does that suppose to hurt me? Apparenlty you dont watch Naruto much do you? When Kakashi got serious he beat Zabuza's ass? So at first Kakashi a elite Jonin who had 3 chunin and Gato with him would toy with a crazed killer? I think you are the retarded one. If the creator of the show had Kakashi say if it wasnt for Naruto and Sasuke helping him in the first fight he would of died then i will take that over some moron in a forum.

If Kakashi didnt summon his dogs in the second fight he would of lost. Not to mention there was no way Zabuza of Haku could win their respective fights. You know Naruto wasnt or Sasuke wasnt going to die that early in the series. Haku and Zabuza had to die to keep the plot going foward.

If the officail stats say during the 3 or 4 years after Zabuza died Kisame and Zabuza pre-chunnin stats are basically the same besides Kisame having a 10 in strength and Chakra compared to Zabuza's 8 in those stats i will take that over some dumb dumb going " Kisame has some cool feats" What does feats have to with the creator of the show telling you?

Itachi has a 10 in speed but in his first fight with Kakashi was he running around like Rock Lee who had only a 8 speed at the time when eh fought Gaara. Every character on Naruto fights a different way and a differen way when fighting different oppenents. Do you think Zabuza would of needed to do the Hidden Mist Jutsu against a person who didnt have the Sharingan? How many times have you seen Itachi use the chidori even though he probably knows it since he seen Kakashi and Sasuke use it. You can't base these fantasy fights off feats alone.

This isn't Dragonball Z either where most of the characters power at the end of the serise were nothing compared to the Saiyans. If you are a elite Jonin in the begging of Naruto then you are a elite Jonin later on. Every character in Naruto continues to grow stronger too which is why i like the show. Logic would show that Zabuza would of learn something new and grew in power just like every other character.

Whatever though, I wanted to see people think outside of the box but all i get are childish insults.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Comic book forum insults is all you got? Lol does that suppose to hurt me? Apparenlty you dont watch Naruto much do you? When Kakashi got serious he beat Zabuza's ass? So at first Kakashi a elite Jonin who had 3 chunin and Gato with him would toy with a crazed killer? I think you are the retarded one. If the creator of the show had Kakashi say if it wasnt for Naruto and Sasuke helping him in the first fight he would of died then i will take that over some moron in a forum.
Lol don't don't go saying "Apparenlty you dont watch Naruto much do you?" then get your facts wrong.. they weren't chuunins haha, true Zabuza caught him but that is basically the only time he had the upper hand, once he was freed he laid the smack down on Zabuza and quickly too, he was clearly outmatched.


Sorry but you're talking nonsense, I can easily say if Zabuza didn't use his mist he would've got curbed, jutsu's are part of shinobi's arsenal, just because they use them it doesn't make them weaker. Zabuza couldn't win because he IS weaker then Kakashi, if he was so much stronger, then Kishi could've thrown in something like "he was diseased" like what he did to Itachi.



Don't take the stats too literal as i've said previously most of them are bs anyway, Temari has far higher overall stats then Rock Lee in the 3rd databook does that mean she would win in a fight? In the 3rd databook Orochimaru has the same genjutsu rating as Itachi, and we all know thats bs. Gaara/Sasuke/Orochimaru all have the same Ninjutsu rating, and we all know thats BS as well.


Again, don't base crap on stats. In the first fight in konoha you don't even see itachi running around, all you see is him appearing here and there.

Kisame > Zabuza .. Just the fact that he's an akatsuki member tells us he's far superior then Zabuza, just 30% Kisame was able to effortlessly trap 3 jounins and forced Gai to unleash his gates, while Zabuza trapped 1 jounin then got tricked by 2 genins.. then got owned by Kakashi.. twice.

it was actually he trapped 1 jounin and 2 chuunin

Originally posted by braveheart
mature up 2 wat i kno its all about opinion
stupid and i just said i think ur
"opinion" is stupid do u understand or do i hav 2 dump it down

Then stop acting like its an 100% fact when it isn't.
Well if you think my opinions are stupid, then yours are to because you are talking to me thinking Sasuke would win when all you said was that Sasuke would when without even saying how he would do it and why he wins.

Originally posted by Wil7
Yeah, but naruto at that current form could probably beat zabuza as well. I loled.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
When Kakashi got serious and used his Sharignan he whooped Zabuza's ass and at one point knocked the shit out of him without even looking at him. Now even though we both agree on the outcome, I will nitpick this argument for the sake of lulz.

The point when he knocked the shit out of him was a weakened Zabuza, as in not 100% in strength or speed, wheras Kakashi was.

In both of their fights, Zabuza and Kakashi both had points when they held the upperhand.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I loled.

Are you kidding. If you don't think Naruto at that time could beat Zabuza, something is wrong with you. One shot from rasengan would beat Zabuza. Also, Drunk Lee was beating the crap out of Raiga, then Naruto came in and finished him off. Naruto could also summon Gamabunta, and he would just sit on Zabuza.

At that time, Naruto would beat Zabuza.

I have a quick question to everybody about this fight. Me and my brother were argueing about this fight. My brother said that Zabuza would win because he could use the hidden mist jutsu to hide and pop up on Kisame and kill him. Would that work?

maybe kisame has that jutsu too...

That is what I said, but my brother's comeback was that Zabuza was a master of the silent kill technique. What does he do when he goes into the mist.

he unleash a massive amount of chakra and blow the mist away

Yeah, but my brother also said he would kill Kisame b4 he could do that.

...Kisame could just form a lake from his mouth, pretty much turning the mist ability into shit.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
The point when he knocked the shit out of him was a weakened Zabuza, as in not 100% in strength or speed, wheras Kakashi was.


Why was Zabuza weakened?

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Why was Zabuza weakened? If I remember right, it could have something to do with 6-8 dogs chomping away at his legs, arms, neck, and torso.

edit

Edit?

Kakash stabbed Zabuza in the arms with Shurinken.

seriously, i bet zabuza would be frozen in fear if he saw kisame in a akatuki robe. kisame then smirks then oneshots him with the samahada.

I don't know about him one shotting Zabuza with samahada, but one water shark kills Zabuza right away.

Lol I'll probably get alot of shit for this but I wouldn't rule out Zabuza. When kisame and itachi show up in the leaf village before the skip itachi says that kisame vs kakashi would not be without risk and i think that kisame is fairly surprised after his remark of kakashi running into zabuza and kakashi confirming it. I would have liked to see kisame more before before the time skip. I think if zabuza expanded on his jutsus he might have a pretty close match. I'm not sure who would win. Kisame might but to say things like he could kill him with one shot and such is arrogant. But I'll go with the underdog of this argument and back zabuza since he is my favorite character.