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General Grievous is healthy. Cin Drallig and Qui-Gon Jinn are not allowed to Force choke him to weaken him. Which side wins?

GG does. He would own them both in sabers. And Force Push along with other weaker LS attacks aren't going to put GG down for good.

No. The team win this. Do you know that Qui-Gon is on Mace's level at saber skills? And don't underestimated Cin Drallig. Just because Anakin kills him doesn't mean he's weak.

Didn't dooku said to GG that he would lose if he fought jedi council members like, for example, Cin Drallig? Add to the fight Qui-gon jinn, who could contend with a guy (darth maul) whose speed was almost as high as sidious' one and GG loses. And he loses badly.

team.

Originally posted by Darth Angel
Didn't dooku said to GG that he would lose if he fought jedi council members like, for example, Cin Drallig? Add to the fight Qui-gon jinn, who could contend with a guy (darth maul) whose speed was almost as high as sidious' one and GG loses. And he loses badly.
No he said if he fought Yoda, Mace or Obi-Wan he should retreat. T say GG takes it. GG>Shaak Ti+Ki+ three other Jedi including Aayla and K'Kruk I doubt Cin and Qui Gon could take that team, and this isn't even GG with four sabers

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No he said if he fought Yoda, Mace or Obi-Wan he should retreat. T say GG takes it. GG>Shaak Ti+Ki+ three other Jedi including Aayla and K'Kruk I doubt Cin and Qui Gon could take that team, and this isn't even GG with four sabers

Exactly.

I don't have time neither the source right now (exam next week), but I remember Dooku especifically saying the name of Cin as one that GG should avoid. Ah, and the jedi GG fought were tired and scared, don't forget that.

Originally posted by Darth Angel
I don't have time neither the source right now (exam next week), but I remember Dooku especifically saying the name of Cin as one that GG should avoid. Ah, and the jedi GG fought were tired and scared, don't forget that.
A Jedi should have control over they're emotions, and Shaak Ti is a greater swordsman of the Jedi Order, and Ki-Adi Mundi has been a leading member of the High Council for ten years

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No he said if he fought Yoda, Mace or Obi-Wan he should retreat.Cin Drallig is mentioned in that same breath.

Grievous outfought a team of exhausted, terrified, intimidated, and trapped Jedi who had no idea who are what he was. He was in his element there, using the advantages of "fear, surprise, and intimidation" as noted by Dooku; the Count said that should he face any of the Council members or the four aforementioned swordsman, he would do best to flee.

That's why Obi-Wan beat him; the General had none of his vital advantages.

Yet Mace hardly raped Grievous in a straight duel, even though Grievous was almost literally glued to the floor and fighting without any of his vital advantages. And Mace is definetly better than Drallig.

Just saying.

Mace won very quickly when he decided not to "prolong this contest," Obi-Wan won in thirty seconds, and apparently Kit Fisto performed admirably as well.

And against Mace, Grievous definitely had fear (for the Chancellor and hundreds or thousands of innocents aboard the train), intimidation (he'd never fought the General before), and surprise (he just dropped onto the train) on his side.

Mace won via force-push- he never outsparred the General, and hell, Grievous seriously endangering Mace is certainly imressive.

And 'fear'? No from the General. He's heard of him, he's heard of his combat abilities, etc. Hell, I could make the same case for Grievous being potentially scared- he's never fought Mace Windu before, and was specifically told by Dooku to stay away from his likes. All things considered, Mace was actually the one who brutally attacked Grievous, too- and held some serious tactical advantages in that battle.

The team takes this. Like Faunus said, GG wouldn't have those advantages that he had against Mundi and Shakk Ti.

General Grievous is a master of all seven forms of combat, equipped with computer algorithms that enable him to analyze, interpret, and replicate even techniques as complicated as Windu's "unconventionally lethal" Vaapad to the point that Windu was threatened enough to bring his Force powers to bear. That is why he won the brawl so quickly. Keep in mind that General Grievous's strength and reflexes are also far greater than any human Jedi's (at least in terms of immediate results).

Likewise, consider that Dooku is a Sith and is teaching Grievous Sith philosophy. Dooku, like Sidious, does not attack unless he has all the advantages. That Dooku advises General to retreat in opposition to those Jedi doesn't mean that he is incapable of fighting them. As Crimzon points out, he performed admirably against Mace.

GG ftw. GG has killed jedi in great amount of numbers at once. I like the two jedi on the team and know how skilled they are, but they can't beat grievous.

Do you know that Mace is on par with Qui-Gon? Although Qui-Gon doesn't have shatterpoint, but he has something for this fight. Cin Drallig. It seems many people underestimated the team for this fight. Maybe some of you think that it's a shame to lose to Maul, but do you know that Maul is one of the best Sith Apprentice in history? IMO Maul is on par with Mace in saber skills, maybe a bit better. He loses because he's arrogant and not quickly finish Obi-Wan.

Yes I know all this. I have researched both of these characters on wookiepedia. Just because I am stating my opinion does not mean I am naive of the others abilities. I am not saying the two are incompetent. I actually believe Cin Drallig to be one of the best in the order, at that time.

So why do many people say the team lose?

I have to make this clear. I'M NOT UNDERESTIMATING GENERAL GRIEVOUS.

I believe it is because we are not sure who would win. But we say Grievous because he has proven himself against a number of jedi at once, which, in this discussion, is playing into his favor.

But in this fight they're fighting with everything they have, including the force.

Originally posted by Ultimate Vader
Do you know that Mace is on par with Qui-Gon?

Umm....no. No. No. No. No. No. *shakes head* No.




I don't think so. Maybe they were much closer during pre-TPM times, but by AOTC and ROTS? No.

So you mean Qui-Gon is weak?

No, Qui-Gon is not weak. Let's have Darth_Glentract give us his reasoning.

Originally posted by Ultimate Vader
So you mean Qui-Gon is weak?

First off, he never said anything about 'weak'. He said that Qui-Gon is far behind Windu as of RotS. That is a fact. Windu gains insight into his fighting style of Haruun Kal (in Shatterpoint) and becomes more deadly. He gets experience in the Clone Wars, and becomes more deadly. He sees the effects of the war on other Jedi, and becomes more deadly. The experience he gets after Jinn's death elevates him far above Qui-Gon's level.
Windu = TPM Qui-Gon Jinn.
Windu + Time > TPM Qui-Gon Jinn.

QED

Okay. But I still believe the team will win this fight, unless someone can change my mind.

Thankyou, I agreed with Darth_Glentract, I just didn't know how to state my reasoning.

Cin duels him while Jinn sits back and pwns with the Force.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Cin duels him while Jinn sits back and pwns with the Force.
No, Grievous has been show to dodge force pushes on multiple occassions when "healthy". See his fight on Hypori, and his pursuit of the Chancellor

I've seen them all but I doubt he can dodge them w/ ease while dueling a guy like Cin.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I've seen them all but I doubt he can dodge them w/ ease while dueling a guy like Cin.
He dodged it while dueling four other Jedi when Ki-Adi did it

I believe the team will win. Qui-Gon is a skilled duelist and Dooku specifically warns Grievous of Cin Drallig.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
I believe the team will win. Qui-Gon is a skilled duelist and Dooku specifically warns Grievous of Cin Drallig.

Agreed.