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Can the Yellow Flash who was considered the greatest shinobi, take on the guy who beat Madara and Kyuubi?

Probably. Considering his teleporting and he's considered the strongest. He should be able to get pass the first long range attacks. Though if he can't get up close I don't see him winning since he seems to be a close range fighter and we don't know if he's got any real long range attacks.

It's hard to say really.

This would be a really good fight. They are both matched up pretty well. Both the 1st hokage and 4th hokage have jutsu's that are extreamly affective and can do alot of damage.

This is a really good fight, but if I had to put money on somebody to win, I would put money on the 4th hokage, because he was able to stop Kyuubi, even though he had to risk his life, he still beat Kyuubi, just like the 1st though.

minato. even if senjuu had most of his tailed beats, minato cud just use shiki fuujin and its endgame

Minato, although Senju could possibly pull off some wins depending on how he dealt with Madara, who Kakashi states has Time/Space jutsu surpassing the Yondaime, but until we find out exactly how he dealt with it, Minato.

Didn't the 1st Hokage take on both Madara and Kyuubi at the same time?

Yeah, but Senju had power over Biju, and we do not know how the fight went.

I guess, but in the picture he was physically fighting against it, you can see the tree wrapped around its leg, attacking it, etc.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2nu610.jpg

...I don't remember that scan.

I drew it not long ago

...Is Madara using a scythe lol?

Yeah. And a fan.

4th was equal to a 3rd in his prime. Sarutobi AFTER his prime kicked Senju's ass all over the place. No contest at all.

I refuse to believe that was all the 1st and 2nd were capable of (with the edo tensei)

Then that would mean Old man 3rd Hokage could take on Madara quite easily since he took on both 1st and 2nd hokage and beat both of them pretty fast as well.

Yeah...This is why I think Kishi screwed up the tier listings.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yeah...This is why I think Kishi screwed up the tier listings.
Not really. All you need to accept is that Sarutobi was one of the strongest ninja ever. Not really a leap at all. We knew that already. I mean, he knows every single Jutsu that was ever invented in Konoha... He can summon the god of death, he can do elemental fusions, he is just so powerful... I wouldn't be surprised at all if a young Sarutobi>anyone we've seen so far.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Not really. All you need to accept is that Sarutobi was one of the strongest ninja ever. Not really a leap at all. We knew that already. I mean, he knows every single Jutsu that was ever invented in Konoha... He can summon the god of death, he can do elemental fusions, he is just so powerful... I wouldn't be surprised at all if a young Sarutobi>anyone we've seen so far.

They weren't elemental fusions....

You need to learn the difference between mixing two chakra elements and THEN performing the technique, and simply mixing two different elemental moves.

if the 1st use that darkness jutsu..the 4th can't use his Time/Space jutsu cuz he can't see

Or that Edo Tensei doesn't summon the full power of the dead, but merely just its abilities.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Or that Edo Tensei doesn't summon the full power of the dead, but merely just its abilities.
Yeah but i've seen no evidence of that.

i doubt the 3rd knew all jutsu in konoha, first off, a lot of them are based in byaakugen/shaaringan. secondly, no ninja other than pain can master more than 2 types of chakra, thirdly, there are lots of special jutsu which require special body types and stuff, like the body tank techniques and stuff from the fat clan, and asuma's chakra blades, and all of the special summons which need contracts, and chidori which only kakashi invented and used and rasengan which only yondaime and kakashi knew at the time an uro's jutsu are based in his body being lotsa snakes and kusanagi and summonign snake seals and tsunade;s are based in healing which are again unique to her with seals and stuff.

and the third mostly only showed fire and earth based abilities.

of the first used the darkness GENjutsu then madara can probably see through it with his shaaringan.

and madara isnt just using a scythe, hes also using a GUITAR!

and yes kishi screwed up the listing when he made the first compareable to madara.

That's actually a fan, like the one in DBZ that shoots wind.

He prolly used it in accordance with Fire Jutsu to "fan" it.

But that is just baseless speculation by me.

Who is more skilled with the fan, Madara or Temari?

...Temari right now, we have not seen Madara do shit with it.

the fourth can oneshot but at close range. not sure if he can get a tag on or near the 1st if he spams trees and darkness n shit the whole time.

There wasn't a mistake on the 3rd beating the 1st and 2nd. He knew what they were capable of, he was literally a ninja genius that surpassed all previous ninja before him in ninjutsu and genjutsu. Also, it does not appear that the 1st and the 2nd were 100% dedicated to the destruction of Sarotobi. Something about the dialogue being held gave me the impression that that resurrection jutsu only brought back a portion or shell of the former selves. The "selves" also had a degree of their own mind. Surely there was a form of reserve held in their attacks, if not directly stated. At least, that's the feeling I got from the fight when I read it and watched it.

All that coupled with the fact that they were not their own bodies, there's no way they had as much chakra or chakra control as they did when alive. Those were also no their bodies. They couldn't possibly master their bodies perfectly when resurrected in a corpse with an abominable jutsu.


Yes, the first was extremely badass. Probably better than Sarotobi in both their primes. Better than Tsundadi, that's for sure.

The 4th hokage is the ultimate ninja. He has speed and a 1 hit kill attack, Minato wins via rasengan to the head speedblitz.

do u think the 1st is a snail or something??and how will he use the speed if the 1st use that darkness jutsu??

Not to mention the First did defeat Madara somehow, who pretty much has Yodaime's same jutsu, only better, he can do it with a thought and without seals.

Well according to Itachi, Yondy also defeated Madara and made him a "pathetic shell of his former self" during the Kyuubi attack.

Though then again we have Madara saying he had nothing to do with Kyuubi attacking.

Somebody is lying. Now if only Kishi would tell us who. Though I still say Madara is most likely.

Originally posted by Kento
Well according to Itachi, Yondy also defeated Madara and made him a "pathetic shell of his former self" during the Kyuubi attack.

Though then again we have Madara saying he had nothing to do with Kyuubi attacking.

Somebody is lying. Now if only Kishi would tell us who. Though I still say Madara is most likely. Well actually Itachi never said Madara himself participated in the attack, only that the Kyuubi was sicked on the village by Madara.

I mean, there were entire armies of ninja fighting the Kyuubi, if Madara was there, someone would have seen him.

Itachi may not be lying, he may just be misinformed. Itachi was what, 7 at the time?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Well actually Itachi never said Madara himself participated in the attack, only that the Kyuubi was sicked on the village by Madara.

I mean, there were entire armies of ninja fighting the Kyuubi, if Madara was there, someone would have seen him.

Itachi may not be lying, he may just be misinformed. Itachi was what, 7 at the time? Beating Kyuubi wouldn't really do anything to Madara though. Well besides probably make his morale go down after loosing twice with the strongest creature in Naruto helping him out. And he was hiding in Konoha when Itachi found him for who knows how long.

You could be right. But Itachi has been around learning everything from Madara and about Madara. You would think if he was misinformed he'd have been set straight by Madara. So one would still have to be lying. I mean it was bound to have come up in the ten years they've been around each other.

Originally posted by Kento
Beating Kyuubi wouldn't really do anything to Madara though. Well besides probably make his morale go down after loosing twice with the strongest creature in Naruto helping him out. And he was hiding in Konoha when Itachi found him for who knows how long.

You could be right. But Itachi has been around learning everything from Madara and about Madara. You would think if he was misinformed he'd have been set straight by Madara. So one would still have to be lying. I mean it was bound to have come up in the ten years they've been around each other. Did Itachi say that that specific incident is what made him a pathetic shell of what he once was? And even if it was, if he was indeed lying or misinformed, why would he not be about the "results." Was it ever stated he was hiding in Konoha? Would make sense, he was planning on killing his clan and Konoha afterall.

But Madara and Itachi in truth never liked eachother, and Madara was likely lying to Itachi about some things.

But yeah, we won't know until it is revealed. All we are really doing is speculating.

Hmm I guess it does say "Madara was behind the Nine-tails attack. But sadly he was stopped again by the 4th Hokage." then it goes "Today he's a pathetic shell of his former self." So it may have been something else in that 16 years that happened.

As for Madara. It never really says where he was hiding. Madara just said Itachi approached him. Though I guess a forest could be anywhere, and Itachi being Anbu could probably be anywhere. I just always assumed it was the woods around Konoha. Around the secret Uchiha hiding place. But I guess that's unproven and just my thoughts whenever I read that part.

So all in all..I guess I'm wrong. Oh well.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
do u think the 1st is a snail or something?? Compared to Minato, yes he is.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
and how will he use the speed if the 1st use that darkness jutsu?? The first hokage never used that technique and useless any way considering the 4th would have made his move before he could use it.

The was Shodaime's jutsu. Being resurrected didn't give him any new jutsu and it's not like it was somebody looking like Shodaime and Nidaime. But even if 1st does do it as long as Yondy can get a marker near him and being as smart as he's made out to be I don't think the darkness would really effect him unless the 1st gets the chance to move before Yondy attacks.

Originally posted by Kento
Hmm I guess it does say "Madara was behind the Nine-tails attack. But sadly he was stopped again by the 4th Hokage." then it goes "Today he's a pathetic shell of his former self." So it may have been something else in that 16 years that happened.

As for Madara. It never really says where he was hiding. Madara just said Itachi approached him. Though I guess a forest could be anywhere, and Itachi being Anbu could probably be anywhere. I just always assumed it was the woods around Konoha. Around the secret Uchiha hiding place. But I guess that's unproven and just my thoughts whenever I read that part.

So all in all..I guess I'm wrong. Oh well. Yay.

even if hashirama use dark space minato still can teleport to him he dont need to see him he can feel chakra that mean even with close eyes he is able to know where his oppnent is

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130128005844/nickfanon/images/c/cc/Dafuq.gif

Dardani is a little off, lol, but Minato can sense chakra like Tobirama so complete darkness is going to completely screw him up. If he has kunais spread out, he could feasibly port to one near Hash's chakra signature. Not saying he wins, but he could overcome complete darkness

He can glow bright yellow of course he can see in the dark.

Granted I fail to see why Hashirama would do that when he could just summon a wood dragon to eat his face. I always liked how the anime made Tobirama do the genjutsu since it fits his personality way more.

Ist